 Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Knowledge 16, brought to you by ServiceNow. Here's your host, Jeff Frick. Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We are live at Mandalay Bay at ServiceNow Knowledge 16. It's our fourth year being at the show. It's a show that we love to come to. Ton of practitioners, ton of customers, and some service providers as well. So we're excited to have Lawrence Dudson on from EY, you're the product portfolio lead to welcome to theCUBE. Thanks, Jeff. Absolutely, so we talked a little bit off camera and everybody knows ServiceNow for kind of their core business, right, through ITSM, but you said you guys are doing a ton of work outside of kind of the core areas. So let's jump in, and the one thing you said that I want to start with is you guys actually use it a lot internally. Yeah. So can I talk about kind of now on now, I guess it's for EY on now, or? Our equivalent of now on now. So we've been an ITSM user for some years. We replaced Remedy, Big Bang, nine months, 9,000 full fillers, 220,000 users. Very successful ITSM implementation, and we've been growing that over time. And that's global, that's the whole... Absolutely, that's global and a very complex model. We're a member firm company, so lots of autonomous member firms globally. Difficult to get them to play nicely together, but we managed to do that with the ITSM implementation. Meanwhile, we have a shared services organization, about 5,000 people offering about 400 shared services. They had been trying for some time to automate a lot of the service provision with SharePoint, many years actually. They asked us to see if we could solve their business problem with ServiceNow. We were asked to compete with SharePoint and do a small POC. We did that very successfully, about a 10th of the dollars and effort associated with the SharePoint solution. We were awarded the work, and we have to win work, internal work as well as external. So we had to win the work with EY. And was it, because it wasn't working, they wanted a different kind of data set, it wasn't as granular as that. What wasn't working with the old system that the new system does today? Really, what SharePoint wasn't given was all of the cool things that ServiceNow does, the workflow, the service level reporting, the user interface, the report, just the general ease of use, time to value. I'm no expert in SharePoint, but it has its strengths. These weren't its strengths. They've been trying to, I think, put a round peg in a square hole for a while. ServiceNow came along, we've automated 20 odd of these services, so it's a journey now, and we're just working our way through these services and really streamlining our shared service provision. So what we hope to do there is take what we're learning with our shared service organization and take that out to clients, because it's the exact same problem in our clients have solved their ITSM issues, and now they want to solve their enterprise service issues. We have real-world experience from our own GSS organization, and we'd like to take it out to the market. Yeah, we hear a lot about HR. In fact, we had a customer on earlier who actually started their ServiceNow journey with HR, which I think is pretty atypical, and then we're hearing more and more about legal as well as another kind of ripe opportunity to implement this type of a solution. Exactly, HR and legal are in our solution set. We also have creative services. There are a whole bunch of, in a shared service org supporting EY consulting, around 400 services that we're just working our way through. We've created a backbone, so take common to the service automation backbone, and then we add these services, we're integrating knowledge, we'll be working to integrate with call centers, provide multiple channels for users to request those services. And there's the execution of the services efficiently, which is one thing, but something you mentioned, our fair is really the financial component of it, and I always go back to cost accounting and business school, you never actually know what anything costs by the time you figure it out, but this at least helps you get a better approximation. Yes, so what we're doing, I'm actually, hopefully nobody will mind me saying the word, I have been working with AppTO for some time, and AppTO is an IT financial management platform. So I have experience with the concept, service now has introduced its own IT FM offering, we are now implementing that, as you say, it takes IT widgets, the cost of an IT widget, which isn't that meaningful to anybody, and rolls it up into a service. So it gives you, for example, a laptop, and you can see what that laptop costs, and you can see how that cost varies with service levels, you can see how that cost varies with the image. So it gets you towards managing IT more effectively, and managing demand more effectively. IT customers can now see what their services cost, and how they can influence them. So we're using service now IT FM to do that, and it ties very well into some of the other service now areas, it ties into the configuration management database, which contains all the information about IT, that can tie it into projects. So it gives you quite a powerful lens on IT, enables you to optimize IT operations. Any interesting stories you can share, or was this like, oh my goodness, we had no idea until we implemented the system, what this was costing us, either really high or really low, or any interesting kind of anecdotes you could share. Every time you do it, every time you do it, the biggest light bulb moment, typically application costs, you'll roll up a cost of an application, so you'll take servers and storage and network and professional services, and you'll roll it up into a TCO, total cost of ownership for an app, and you'll present that, and folks will just look at it and just, good grief, that's what that app costs, and then they start to question what they use the app for, what business value does it add, and when you look at the two together, in an incredibly expensive application, not many users, not a lot of business value, immediately it's like, why have I got this? And they have all of these siloed costs, they've always existed, but they've never rolled them up into the application, and that's the light bulb moment. We see that a lot. The other is just cost shifting. If you've got sort of the peanut butter model for allocating costs, everybody sort of pays the same. When you build a cost model and actually start to associate costs with services, the costs move with consumption, and many times you'll see different BUs consuming more than others, and you start to see cost shift, and sometimes it's a little bit of an unpleasant learning when the BU realizes they're actually consuming more than they thought on the coster, there are more costs going to them than they expected, but that's, you know, it's a fair representation of what's going on. Right, because I assume before they have that moment, they're kind of looking at the licensing costs and maybe adding the maintenance costs and maybe a little bit of margin, but not really looking at what percentage of the data center, what percentage of the servers, what percentage of the people that manage that, all those other pieces. You actually described a fairly sophisticated model even in its own right. You know, the least sophisticated model is maybe based on number of people. It really is that unsophisticated. I'm getting IT costs based on number of people or revenue or whatever. Then you get to slightly more sophisticated. You look at licensing, you look at physical and virtual servers, you know, that type of, you look at a number of people working on projects, and then you get to sort of full granularity of service costing. So it's sort of a spectrum from very, very un-granular to very granular and a really, you know, fairly accurate representation of what's going on. That's funny. We had guests on earlier talking about, you know, we said, are you getting rid of any apps as you put in service now? And they said, yes, how is that received horribly? Don't touch my apps. I'm sure it's the same story until you say, oh, well, by the way, it's costing you X and here's the business value. Maybe you want to reevaluate your, can we just leave it alone, kind of attitude? Such a good point. I did a presentation on application portfolio optimization yesterday and I asked the question, why do we have proliferation of apps? Well, it's easier to give than to take away. If you tell somebody, I'm going to give you an app that does this, they're great. But if I'm going to take away your app, they get rather annoyed. But if you then present the costs and you say, well, you have these 10 applications and they cost you this much, I'm going to take some of those away. Or I'm going to start charging you for them. Then they become a little bit more, willing participants in the optimization process. Yeah, different conversations. So dollars definitely help with those conversations. So another item that you talked, or area that you guys are working on is the GRC, the regulation and compliance. I wonder if you can kind of unpack that a little bit. Yeah, so it's a new offering from ServiceNow and EY has a fairly aggressive agenda around managed service provision. So we are going to be offering GRC as a managed service and we are going to be offering it on the ServiceNow platform. So we have a number of managed services in our strategy. GRC is one of the first. We're looking at a couple of others, but expect to see that as a service fairly soon. We commence build actually next week on the GRC offering. Not to leave that short shift, but I want to dig into the third one that we talked about, which is security. Right. The thing I want to drill down with you a little bit when you work with your customers is it seems like security investment is kind of like life insurance, right? You could always have more. You know, what is the right spending about? Because we already know you can't build a moat big enough, right? You're going to have to deal with reality. So it's, how do you help people figure out what is the right level of investment when you could always spend more? You could always get more insurance, but at the end of the day, it needs to be something that makes sense. How do people think through those kind of conversations? It's a great question. Security gets the attention of everybody. You know, it's the get out of jail thing. It's more than financial when you talk about security. And it is. It's one of those areas where folks, they don't quite have a blank check, but they do come willing and motivated. I think our approach has been leading practice. I think, you know, the conversations that you have are, what are we seeing in the industry? That defines reasonable. You know, what level of process, what level of threat vulnerability? That really defines, they want to talk to folks who have done this, who have worked in this area, who have experienced, can talk to what has been done, whether it's in the industry or across industry. And I'd like to think that's what EY offers. We've got a very deep security practice. We lead with process. So we define the security operations processes, and then we automate. This is another area where we've got a managed service. We offer sort of a tiered service. There's a lot of core security work that goes on within the sort of client perimeter. And then we have a security operation center that sits outside, and that can be monitoring at a sort of cross client view of the world to see sort of what's going on at a macro level, rather than at a specific client. Right, and it seems pretty solid trend that, you know, even though you have the external security kind of specialization, you know, security really needs to be embedded kind of throughout all the organization, throughout all the processes. It's not something we can just rely on the security guys over there in the room with the windows. You know, we have to integrate it into everything that we do. And another advantage of the platform, you know, service now, the fact that it's integrated, the fact that you've got CMDB and CIs, you've got GRC, you've even got ITFM, and this is a, to your costing perspective, you can very easily now start to cost security work. You can loop that into the ITFM work and start to see what security is actually costing you. But the fact that it's all integrated in the platform is very powerful. Right, so looking down the road, what are you excited about, you know, kind of, because it sounds like you're getting everything kind of boiled down to a service. What's, where's this going to go next? Is there any place it can't go? You know, we talked a little bit with Daryl from, and the earlier guest about really kind of fit for purpose, you know, this tool as a platform can fit a lot of purposes if you can redefine it as a service. You just see, just going to keep moving, moving, moving. It's a great question. So the keynote this morning was a really, really cool diagram from Frank. And it, you know, it showed customer service on the right. It showed ERP. And then sort of that service layer in the middle. The big question I'm trying to answer right now is that interrelationship with ERP. ERP is always going to be the system of record for a lot of information, but there's so many things that it doesn't do. You know, they're typically a little bit slow moving, difficult to configure, not the easiest things in the world to use where a service now is all of those things. So what I'm trying to work through is just how they work together. Unless there's something I don't know, I don't think service now is going to be the system of record for that ERP type data. But I think what we need to do is just work out how the two work together. How you take advantage of all those cool things that service now does. And also maintain that sort of integrity of the ERP system of record. Exciting times, keep you busy. Yeah, absolutely. All right, Laura, so thanks for stopping by and taking a few minutes with us. Thank you. All right, Lawrence Stutzen from EY, no longer instant young, I got corrected on that, so I got the right to nomenclature. I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE we're live at the Mandalay Bay at Service Now Knowledge 16. We'll be back on their next segment after this short break. Thanks for watching.