 This is Startup Storefront. The best part about making cookies is eating the raw dough off the mixers. High risk, high reward. This can make you seriously ill. Between the flour and eggs, Salmonella is a real threat. Sweet Lawrence, the number one natural cookie dough company in the United States, has created the solution we all need. They make gluten-free, dairy-free, plant-based, and nut-free cookie dough. It comes in pre-cut portions, bakes in minutes, and can even be eaten raw. Sweet Lawrence is transforming what it means to be convenient and delicious. In this episode, we talk with Sweet Lawrence herself, Lauren Brill. Listen in as we cover how a cancer diagnosis shifted her priorities at a time when most of her peers were living a carefree life, how she got into major grocery store retailers, and how staying scrappy in the early days hindered the company's growth. Pull up a chair and take a seat at our table, because everyone's welcome to this cookie party of an episode. Welcome to the podcast on today's show. We're talking to Lauren, founder of Sweet Lawrence. For people who don't know, what does your company do? So Sweet Lawrence is an all-natural clean ingredient food company, and we're the makers of the number one natural cookie dough brand in the U.S. We're one natural cookie brand. Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you. It tastes like the number one. It's amazing. You hear because you have the biggest fan, her name is Lexi. She's sitting to my right, and she's such a fan of your product. And every founder has a good story, and why they got started. So what brought you to want to start this company? So I have a crazy story. I actually, I'm from New York City, and I moved, I lived out here for college. I went to USC, and right after I graduated, probably like two months after I graduated college, you know, still figuring out what am I doing with my life. Yeah. But excited, right? Like I'm an adult now. I get to jump into a real job in the real world. I got diagnosed with cancer. That's heavy. It was super heavy. I was 22 years old. What kind of cancer? The last thing you'd expect, I had Hodgkin's lymphoma. Okay. Stage two. And I had to do six months of chemo. Did they do surgery first to like try to remove it? No. It was in your lymph nodes. So it's really... It's just chemo. It's a blood cancer. So you really need chemo to really clean up your blood. So it was crazy. Like I, the last thing I would expect. What is this like for you mentally? So there's a, there's a concept of like, like the Jew, this is heavy. I get that. Did you accept death as an option? It was crazy. Cause you know, when you just graduate college and you feel young and free, like I felt invincible. And then to hear this, like it was honestly unthinkable. Like when I found it because the lymph nodes in my neck one day, I just woke up and they were so swollen. It was literally that instant. It literally was like, I mean, my doctor said it probably was slowly growing in me for probably a year, year and a half. But, but I had no other signs. So, you know, it was undetected. And so I just, you know, something was definitely weird with my lymph nodes. My mom unfortunately had cancer. She had a type of leukemia. And so she had an oncologist. And so she immediately, you know, at 22, you're also done with your pediatrician. Like I didn't even have like my new doctor. And she was like, just, you're coming to my oncologist. And he looked at me. Did your mom have cancer or was she had previously? No, she was, she had a type of leukemia that there just isn't a cure for. And so unfortunately, she passed away 10 years ago. But I'd grown up like seeing her go through treatments and things like that. You know, so it's not easy, not easy. And the thing about Hodgkin's lymphoma is it's also not even related to leukemia. So, but I went to her doctor and, you know, I trusted her doctor. I'd like known him. And he said, you either have nothing at all or Hodgkin's lymphoma. And I didn't even Google Hodgkin's because I couldn't even, like that was like, that was crazy. You know, there's no way. There's nothing at all. And you're like, oh, that's probably it. It's like, of course. And they'll just figure this out. It took a month of testing because again, nothing showed up in my blood work. I wasn't having any like night sweats or like weird, you know, signs. And so when they did do a biopsy, they found a lymph node in my neck and they did a biopsy. They found out, you know, it was in fact cancer. And so, yeah, I think when he gave me that news, I just honestly, I've always been a very happy kind of upbeat person. And I literally like for the first time just like hit ground zero. Like I just was like, wow, I might not live. Wow. Even if I do live, am I ever going to feel great again? Like, am I going to be scared for the rest of my life that I could get sick again? Like, am I going to be like, I don't know, just carrying this baggage for the rest of my life? And so I think like I just went this just really dark place. And that's not who I ever was. And I think after like two months of that, I realized how terrible feeling bad feels. And I just was like, I hate this feeling. Like this is hopeless. Like I was watching like daytime television. I'd never really, you know, I was not one of those people that sat around. At 22. You're not really changed. Yeah. Like I'm not used to be going out and traveling the world and hanging out with friends and, you know, partying and having fun. And I just about like two months into it, something in me just like snapped. And I just was like, I'm not going down this road. Like I'm going to do everything in my power to get healthy, to get past this, to feel better than ever when I'm healed and turn this into a positive. And like I literally just create like this tunnel vision and was like, no one else is going to do this for me if I want this different outcome and feeling. I just have to do it myself. And so I just tried to kind of push anything negative away. Was this during chemo that you start to make the switch? Yeah, it was about two months into the chemo treatment. Wow. So this is like you week, very much week. Yeah. And something just switches. I just was, I mean, it was still so hard. It's not like all of a sudden I was like, this is happy. But I was like, I think I just really realized how we're just in control of our own lives. And no, you know, something bad happens. Like you can't really blame it on something else. Like it's like, you know, this isn't where my mom could save me. You know, it's not, someone can't just swoop in and be like, I'm making this all better. It's like, I just have to know that I did everything I could to get healthy. And I really felt a connection. I think the other thing was like, after that, the two months I, you know, I had this like just crazy desire to be like proactive, but not just like, okay, doctor, give me the medicine and I'll just do what you tell me. But like, what else can I do? So I would say to the doctor, this is an amazing doctor in New York City, you know, has been doing this work for decades. You know, I was like, what should I be eating? What should I be, you know, exercising? Like tell me all the things I should do besides the medicine, because thank God for the medicine. Like it cured me. But I also know I helped cure myself. And like I'm still living this really like... Did he tell you? Did he tell you? Yeah. His response was... Because I know in Europe they do, but in here they can't. His response was keep doing what you just normally do. And I just, that's exactly what was my response. What? What I'm normally doing is obviously not the right thing. Working. Working. So I was like, okay, food is so obvious to me. Like food is just... Besides being like delicious and pleasurable and fun, like food is art and like energy, right? So the oat milk. And so... We'll talk about that later. Yeah, what you put in your body is everything. It's everything. Like if I don't have good energy, how am I going to fight this? If I don't... So I just was like, okay, food is number one. I'm going to start saying nutrition. And then... And I'm from New York City. I feel like I'm very educated about clean food. But like this was also about 15 years ago. And this was also... You just realize you're not taught nutrition in school. Like you have to genuinely be so interested to really teach yourself. So I was like, I'm going to study nutrition and just make sure I'm feeding myself like as healthy, good ingredients as possible. Because I want to get stronger and pass this. And two, I'm going to start take cooking classes because the only reason we don't eat healthy most of the time is because you don't know. And like it doesn't normally taste good or like healthier option. So true. So it's like if I can make food taste delicious and make it healthy, it's a win-win. Like who wouldn't want that? And so I started just experimenting on myself because again, I wasn't working. So like I was like, okay, on the days that I don't have treatment or surviving, I'm going to like stay... I'm going to take cooking classes and I'm going to study nutrition. And I just like built a schedule to keep me busy. And I started to really feel the effects of just like eating tons of like, vegetable, like being really just being mindful, like having a very balanced meal. Like only whole grains, only super high quality oils, like tons of different types of vegetables, tons of types of greens, making sure they taste really delicious. And I just started feeling genuinely so much mentally more positive, had more energy, more calm and more nourished. And I was like, I just fell in love with it. I was like, this is the answer. It's working, you felt it working. And then of course like working out and just keeping like blood flow as much as possible. And I couldn't run marathon, but like just trying to like stay as active as possible and trying to keep as mentally positive as possible. And how long did you go through chemo? So six months. Okay. So it was every other Friday was treatment. Wow. And I just would feel terrible for like the whole weekend. Yeah. And then like kind of by the next week, you kind of get your energy back and then you'd have to like do another treatment. But I know... I just think about chemo today. It was a dark time. I can't wait to the time in the future where we just look back on that and we're like, that's the dumbest. How are we going to have the voice in our bodies to get better? But at the same time, I'm so grateful. Totally. Yeah, for sure. I mean, today it's the only... It cured me, you know. And the truth is my doctor, like it was super harsh the first couple of times. Like I fainted one morning. Like it was so intense for me, but my doctor was really great. Like he was like, okay, we're going to also give you this kind of medicine. You take 24 hours before and this 12 hours before. And like by the end of it, like it was easier to manage. And I never like lost all of my hair, but like it's thinned. Like I just didn't... I did not feel my sexiest best self. You know, so by the end of it, you're like, okay, I'm cured. Thank God. But like now I need to make sure this number comes back. And then how do I just like get strong, healthy Lauren back, you know? So, you know, that really kind of... It became my mission. And it was just very weird to be like, okay, cool. Now I'm like a carefree 22 year old or 23 now year old person anymore. It's hard to be carefree after going through that. Yeah. You're like, shit is real. Yeah. And life is so precious. Yeah. And you don't know. What else did this change, besides like starting the company, but like what else did this change for you? Obviously it sounds like your diet, you became very proactive about, maybe intentional about what you consume, both probably mentally, but also literally. But like what other changes did you become super like aware about that? Maybe most people who haven't had the same experience. I think I became, what I was saying earlier, just like really self aware and responsible for my own life. Like I just was like, okay, like there's some things you can't control. Like life is crazy. I couldn't control getting cancer. But like there are a lot of things in our control and like this, you have one life. Like you got to own it and be like, I know I did everything I could, you know? So I think that just that ownership of your own life and responsibility and not kind of blaming someone else or trying to have someone else save you, it's like, no, you know, you can be your own hero. So I think that was a major lesson I learned and I also think just like life is so precious. And so I think a lot of when you're young, you're just kind of like, whatever, I have a long life ahead of me. I, you know, maybe you just date the wrong people or you work for jobs that don't make you happy or you know, and I think I just, it lit a fire under me. That's just like, wow, like every day counts. I'm happy for you. I'm intense, but I'm intense because of that. I'm intense too, same way. You know, but I do feel like I don't have regrets. I do feel like I live that way. If you have them, you own them. Yeah. So I'm curious during those six months, how did you balance going through chemo and also going for this potential career that you were thinking you were going to have? Cause I'm at that stage now where I graduated two months ago. Like I couldn't imagine doing that now though. And so there's many people who have a hard time balancing their health to begin with when they're going after their dream career, their passion, whatever, how did you do that along with chemo? Well, so I didn't really have the idea for Sweet Lawrence yet. You know, I started cooking classes and definitely was like, this is my lifestyle. Like how could you not, like you can eat the most delicious food, but have it be made of real fresh whole ingredients and feel great afterwards. And like it's a win-win, you know? So that became my lifestyle and then thankfully I, you know, was kind of cancer-free and my doctor was just kind of like, okay, now every six months just come back for a test, but you're free, go. Like go be normal. You know, and I was like, I do not know how to be normal right now. Yeah, I knew normal. You're normal is different. I knew normal is different. So all my friends were ready a year into their jobs and things like that. And so I was like, okay, what's my job? And I just wasn't passionate about anything. But I tried. Like I tried to enter finance and I was like, this is so not me. I worked for PR company and I was like, I can't, you know? This is, it's not like deep enough or connected to me enough. Like I actually started managing a restaurant in New York and I really didn't love the restaurant industry and I didn't love the people running the company. But I loved like the customer service. Like I loved making people happy. Like I love, you know, the people that would come in and be like, oh my God, it's my favorite thing. Or, you know, and I was like, okay. Like that gives me energy. So I tried a bunch of things and I think after a couple years of like, none of these things working, I kept cooking and baking on the side. And so a couple years later, I basically had created these cookie recipes and I just finally got enough like friends and family being like, you know you have to do something with this. And so I realized like it's not just. Because they were delicious. They were delicious. And incredible. So like every time you went somewhere where you asked to. I was always like, and I realized that baking really kind of became my hobby. I minored in painting. So like I love art. And instead of kind of painting anymore. I feel like. So when you said that I thought of painting house and I'm like, that's a minor. But that is an art. Well, you're describing. No, like, you know. I know why your brain went there. Yeah. It's interesting. It's the real estate development. Yeah. This stuff. Yeah. I just like being creative. I have to use my hands. And so I think I brought, instead of painting, you know, painting with art. This is your art. This was my art. And so I was like, OK. It's therapeutic for me. It's a way to meditate. It's a way to like put my energy and emotions towards something that's going to create something positive. And so I started creating recipes and after hundreds and hundreds of trials. Were you trying to solve for something like less sugar? Or like, was there a health angle? It was more just like, there's nothing better than a warm cookie out of the oven to me. Sure. Or even cookie to rock. Right? Yeah. Come on. It's like heaven. And I'm like, I'm someone who loves. I'm such a fat kid. Like I'm 100%. I'll eat 40 of these. I'll eat that whole treat. Which I probably should. No self control. But tell me they're good for me and I'm live on. Exactly. And I love like salads and all of that. But it's like, I am a dessert. I'm a chocolate, you know, person. Hard to make a salad sexy. Yeah, exactly. And so I was like, OK. I just want to create the best cookie dough and warm cookie out of the oven that just makes me actually feel great. Because I would buy, you know, again, I'm in New York City. So we're on such amazing food and bakeries and high end everything. But everything's pretty much made out of the same ingredients. You know, it's butter. It's heavy cream. It's bleached enriched white flour. It's, you know, it just, it's very refined processed ingredients. And I was like, my whole mantra about eating food is eating whole real. So I was like, OK. How do I use whole grains instead of white flour? How do I, you know, use chocolate that doesn't have soy and dextrose and all these kind of weird extra ingredients? How do I just really make sure that every ingredient in there, like my body, you know, kind of can digest and loves the taste of. So that was the original concept. I've literally tried every type of flour out there, every type of oil, every type of sugar. I mean, like I've tried it all and it finally got to the point where I was like, OK, like my neighbors are obsessed with this. Every time I go to a friend's house, I was always making new flavors and recipes. So I'd like always bring them and then people will be like, are you kidding me? This is amazing. After I saw that like genuine reaction several times, I was like, OK, like, I'm not a crazy person, the only crazy person that wants this. You're not delusional. I'm not delusional. And you're seeing the signal. Yeah, I was like, everyone wants a healthier way to satisfy their sweet tooth as long as it tastes great. Like it's just that simple. Truth. And a warm cookie. A warm cookie. And so then, so I was like, OK, clearly I need to be an entrepreneur too because none of these jobs are working out. Like I'm miserable. So like, both my parents were entrepreneurs too. So I think it's in my blood. But I just was like, OK, I got to figure out something else on my own. And so I started business, taking this business course to write a business plan for Sweet Lawrence. And I was thinking, should it be a bakery? Should it be a product that's sold, you know, in CPG, sold in supermarkets? And in the course, this guy worked in Whole Foods. And he just worked in like the overnight shift restocking the shelf because he was trying to get his startup off the ground. You know, he wanted to open like a bike shop. And he was like, Lauren, like, like, I'll get you a meeting with the buyer. And I was like, and I was like, I was like, I don't even know what I'm creating yet. You know, and he was like, Lauren, just take the meeting. So I was like, Lauren, you're the one who's responsible for your own life. Like if you want to make this happen, like give it 110% and just go. So I just like got that attitude and I pretended I was a real company, even though it was like literally, you know, this is I'm like living out of my mom's apartment. These are all homemade in my mom's kitchen. I mean, it was, it was, you know, the very beginnings, but I made a whole one pager, got a presentation and met the buyer and he was like, our team has never tasted something so good. Like, I love this. Can we have 4,000? Yeah, can we, how soon can we get them? He was like, how soon can we get these? And I was like, oh my God, I have to find a factory to design packaging. I actually have to like commercialize this. And so I was like, probably like a month or two. And then I think it took like about seven months. But he, he kept his word and then we just kept emailing and when we were ready, he brought it in. And then I was that girl demoing in whole foods, giving out samples all the time. And again, like hearing tons of feedback from customers. That's the best. It's the best. It's gold, you know. That's the whole thing. That's the whole thing. Whether you're a comedian, you have to get that instant feedback. You have to get it. You have to crave it. You have to really reprogram your brain. That's exactly it. And you have to like throw your ego out the door. Like I realized this is not about me. I don't even care if I like these flavors. I mean, I love them, but you know what I mean. Right. You could be wrong. If you're selling your favorite, could not be. Yeah. My favorite could be like an espresso chocolate that like. It's your, it's your, you like oatmeal. No one. No one's going to buy, right? The classics. Yeah. And that's the other thing is that it wasn't obvious to me, but like there's a reason vanilla and chocolate are the most popular flavors of ice cream, right? It's like there are classics like chocolate, chunk that you know are always going to be number one. So I think I jumped in and I think the other thing that happened was I started to study the food industry, which unless you're in the food industry, I don't think it's so obvious to everyone. You know, it's like how does food get on supermarket shelves? How does the whole business behind it work? Like it's actually crazy. Supermarkets meet with you once a year. Like so only one time a year do they reset the shelf and bring in new products pretty much. And you know, I started to see that like in cookie dough, especially there's a duopoly. There's two companies that basically like own and run this category and it's what I grew up on. But for sure, it's not a product that I'd want to feed my children one day. And that just became like the vision. Like what would I want to feed myself and my family one day? Like that's the brand I'm going to create. That is what I believe the future of food will be. I think people are getting more and more educated. They want cleaner options, but you need to make it easy, delicious, accessible. And that fire got lit because I just realized like if I don't do this, who's going to? And like these companies will continue to win and like they shouldn't win. Did you have to raise capital or was it kind of like you had like a friends and family, but you already had the buyer. So you have like a different story where you take this meeting, then your pitch to your friends isn't, oh, I'm going to take your money and pitch. It's more of like I have orders to fulfill. Agreed, agreed. So it's a better story. But somehow it was still hard. So it's hard in general. I did raise and it was crazy to me because like people knew how hard I worked and how good the product was. And then we're in Whole Foods and it's like you still don't trust me. Yeah. Like what you should be writing me a million dollar check tomorrow. That's a good attitude to have by me. Yeah. That's the right attitude to have. But I couldn't believe actually how hard it was. You realize like even, you know, $10,000 or whatever. I mean, I was doing friends and family. So I was just was getting little bits from whoever, whoever would come in. And I actually couldn't believe how hard it was because like I know a lot of incredibly successful people. You know, it's interesting when you start writing checks for companies how like what has to totally align for you to be able to like just. Did you ever figure that out? What's worked for me is, so I brought on an angel investor and did friends and family. And since then we've been profitable and haven't raised institutional funding which is pretty unique in the food space. Congratulations. Thank you. Very difficult. It's incredibly difficult. Tens. Tens. Yeah. And they're not never profitable and we've built like, I've been very focused on building a really good business so that we're not beholden to anyone and you know, in charge of our own future. And so I think what I've learned is like the people, because it's interesting, even like family, right? Like your family, you think it's like your family, they're just going to write you. But I think money is very emotional and I think the people that were able to like really write a meaningful check and not even think twice about it were the people that live this lifestyle. So my angel investor was just like, I've eaten every fancy gluten free product out there and it's terrible. Like this is the best thing I've ever had. Here's my money. 100% you are going to build the next brand name and I'm, you know, here to help in any way. From a family. From a family. I believe in you. It's someone who really understands the lifestyle because I think there's a lot of people that are like, Oh, it's a cool idea, but like they don't fully buy into the lifestyle so they don't fully like see the opportunity and have the passion, you know? Besides like, Oh, we love Lauren. We want Lauren to be successful. We want, it'd be great to make a return on my money one day. You know, it's like, I'll tell you why I know. Yeah. Because I'm an investor in the almond milk up there. And that would all make sense for you. But do you see how I am about it? Exactly. I'm such a believer in the lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah. And so you're totally right. Yeah. How quickly did you have to build out your team and what was your first hire? So after that meeting at Whole Foods. So I was so scrappy almost to a fault. Like if I could go back, I would have been like hire the best team possible as soon as possible. Can you elaborate on that just because our listeners, this is something I talk about all the time. And I think as an entrepreneur, you're two things, right? Your mind is very dollar focused still. Yeah. Because you haven't seen the other side. Exactly. And in that, you're doing yourself a disservice, but you don't know you are. And you think being scrappy is like a skill set that everyone should have. And I think it's because Gary V tells you to eat shit for years and live in basements. But I think he's wrong. I think that's not the right approach. I think that like I'm glad. I mean, I love being scrappy. Our whole team scrappy to a point, you know, because I think you can be very fearless too, especially when you raise money. Like, okay, cool. Like we can burn. We can try a lot of things. Like I want to know where every dollar is going. So at the beginning, it was good to be scrappy because I got off the ground as a one woman show, you know, which is super hard to do. And so I didn't have to bring on partners or give up equity to, you know, other people that way. But I will say, I think like once you have product market fit, you get the best team possible together. I think the hard part about that is that like, it's not like the best team possible is like sitting across the table from you. Like if you don't have those super dialed in networks, it's hard to like assemble that dream team. And it's not just about someone with experience. It's that culture fit. And so like it's, you know, even we're now a real company and it's still hard for us to, we're hiring people now. And it's like there's amazing talent out there, but are they the right fit for us? You know, so it takes a while to find the right people. But I will say that like, you know, for too long I was scrappy because honestly we could have grown faster. And so I think I did hold myself back. But at the beginning I brought on some interns that were like super helpful. Like they really helped, you know, I was like running the business, but they were doing everything else, you know? And so that really got me going for probably two years. I was just, it was just me and interns. And then I hired one full-time person that was kind of like my right hand. But the issue is like kind of bringing on a catch-all is like then they're kind of a catch-all versus like a specialist, like a ninja in something. And so I got us into all public supermarkets and then Kroger supermarkets. And when that happened it was Game Changer because it was like, that's buy-in from the two of the biggest supermarkets in the U.S. And they brought us into full distribution, like overnight, which doesn't happen. That's insane. It's insane. Good for you. Thank you. And so when that happened I called... That's crazy. It is crazy. They weren't like, you don't need to test this. They were like, I was like how many stores and they're like all the worst. People love cookies. Yeah. And I like really would like go to those meetings and be like, bring this home to your wife. Tell me what she wants to buy. Like that stuff that's on the shelf or something like new. And like honestly that's how a lot of supermarkets really decided. I mean the buyer has to approve, but like they normally ask you to send a ton of samples so they can just give it out to like everyone to be like, just genuinely tell me what you think. Give me feedback. Give me feedback. And if they're like, I love the product, you're like, whoa, there's an opportunity here. Because the cookie dough category has been flutter declining for the last decade. And then sweet Lawrence enters and we grow it. So like they're looking for companies that know how to bring in a new customer. Unicorn. Yeah. And so yeah. So was that finally the catalyst? Sorry. So that was the catalyst was getting, getting that distribution. I knew we were going to be a real company. Like I was like, we'll be a multi-million dollar company just because of this distribution. Right. I can now afford to hire someone high level. I don't have to stay scrappy. And so, and also, I don't even know how to work with these huge supermarkets. Like you only get one shot. Like I need to make sure I bring on the best person possible. So we like skyrocket with them versus like, you know, filling out the forms wrong or do something wrong. Is it one buyer that decides for the country? It's one buyer. Wow. There's a dairy buyer. It's crazy. Yeah. It's really amazing when you start to understand how supermarkets work. That seems silly. They're looking, they're looking at so much data. Right. You know, they're looking at so much data. It's basically like, our buyer is the dairy buyer because we're in the kind of the refrigerated dairy section kind of near the cottage cheese and butter and eggs and they have that shelf space. And it's not very big, right? It's not like we have an aisle in the grocery store. It's like, you know, the refrigerator section isn't that big and they're in charge of growing it and making more dollars happen. So they're looking at like, who could come in and bring a new customer and grow it? Because if we come in to just eat market share of what's already there, you're switching, you're just switching companies in and out. You're not actually growing. Right. That's what's so amazing about, you said that the industry as a whole is like flattening or declining. And then all of a sudden, they're just like, no, we're all into all of our stores and, you know, you're not trying to eat up market share. You're trying to grow it. So they're seeing, obviously they're seeing a trend, probably in a better for you space, not a healthy food, but like an alternative to the overly processed stuff that we've had our entire lives. Exactly. I think that's what comes down to this, that like every category they're seeing is like going better for you and having options. And this category didn't have anything. And so they're like, okay, like this is our chance to bring in the millennial mom, anyone at this table, anyone who's like trying to eat clean but also has a sweet tooth. So our selling point for sweet Lawrence is like, you know, we're non-GMO, really simple, good ingredients. Nothing weird. So no junk. So you're like, okay, that person is our dream customer, but we're also gluten-free. We're also dairy-free. We're plant-based. We're peanut-tree-nut-free. We're kosher. So it's like if you are... And it tastes great. Any of those things, that's the thing. And if you just want a delicious cookie. Right. So we try to capture everyone that kind of isn't a customer for the... What stores are you in now? So we're in over 15,000 supermarkets now. We're in all Whole Foods, almost all Targets. We're in all Kroger's, Publix, Wegmans, Harris-Tieter, Stop & Shop, yeah. What do you personally want from this? Like do you want to run this company forever? Do you want to give it to your future kids? Or is it something that, you know... I think... You accept. You know, I'm honestly open. I just want to build the best brand and the best company and create the best products. And like honestly, we built this business with just cookie dough. Do you ever think to yourself what would have happened if you didn't have cancer? I do. I wonder if I would still do this all the time. What's interesting is, do you guys know New York well? Do you know LaVanne Bakery? No. That one I don't know. Really? I've probably been to it. What part of New York is this? They were on the Upper West Side, but they're known for these big cookies. Anyway, I worked there before I got sick because it was my neighborhood bakery. And I saw the lines of people that would literally line up for these insane huge cookies. And they're not healthy cookies. They're just delicious. And I just love the women that own the bakery and how happy they made customers and honestly how happy warm cookies just make people. And I think the idea was already percolating somewhere in me before getting sick, but getting sick just made me turn it on its head to be like, I just don't look at bakeries the same way. I want to feel great after I eat food. Right. You've got a new filter over life now. And so every time I eat something that just makes me feel like really tired of a sugar headache or I'm just like, why'd I do that? I don't need to do that. So I have no idea. I just know that I'm a creator. I have to get my hands dirty. I've always loved baking and sweets. And I was a yoga instructor actually before I got sick too. So I've always been inclined to this kind of more mindful, healthy way of life. But I don't know, this fire in the belly and looking at life, how precious it is and just kind of going in 100% every day. It gave you jet fuel maybe. I think you need to really go through something in life to get that. You can tell people this all the time, but it doesn't kick their ass. My ass was kicked and I was like, okay, I know what it's like over there. I'm going to do everything I can to stay over it. You mentioned you're made in a nut free facility. I know that the news dominating the headlines right now is the recall that you had. And I know that things like that, they happen. It's an unfortunate part of doing business. But I'm curious about like, what steps do you have taken to combat that, get ahead of that, and how you guys are dealing with that right now? Totally. It was honestly the most shocking, like terrible thing to go through. But thankfully such a small amount of product is out there. But I don't know if anyone follows, you know, commodities in the oat flour market. But oat flour is a really, it's a big ingredient of ours because we don't use white flour. You know, it's a, we love oat flour. It's whole grain. It's really delicious. It has this great like neutral flavor. It's great. It's gluten free naturally. So Q4 last year, we normally used to buy all of our oat flour in Canada. There's a big oat flour crop there. And they had a major drought. And between COVID and labor and the drought, we have a contract with these suppliers. I've been using them for years. We have a contract with them, supplying us X amount for the next year. They just said, we cannot supply you. And they gave us like one week notice. So what does a company like ours do, right? You're like, you've got to find a new supplier. And so the hard part is there's a drought in all North America. It's not like there's oat flour popping up all over here. So we actually had to go to a different part of the world. We went to Chile. They sent us samples and, you know, paperwork stating like, this is gluten free. We tested our factory. Everything was great. And so we were so happy that like we found a solution and found a whole new supplier in a couple of months because, you know, normally like that could, they could put a company out of business, you know. So we started using this new oat flour. And then we started doing some in-house just extra testing because we're gluten, we're made in a very allergen free factory. So it's not free. It's gluten free. And so we started testing and we found some traces of gluten. The hard part with oat flour is that oat flour is inherently gluten free. So it becomes not gluten free when there's traces of wheat or something else in it. The hard part is that parts could be totally good and other parts can have the traces in it. Is that because like maybe the combine that they used to harvest it was also used to harvest wheat? We're still trying to figure out where their factory doesn't do wheat but maybe in the crop. Like it's planted near a wheat field and the wind blows it over or something like that. But yes, other factories could produce wheat on the same machinery and that's how it could create a cross-contamination. So we found out we had sugar cookie that thankfully was only about like 6,000 cases but sugar cookie that was sold across the U.S. And you know, we wanted to do the right thing and we were like, listen, no one has gotten sick yet or we haven't heard anything but we were just going to pull it from shelves because like our brand is about trust. It's about making people feel good. Like if there is a trace in here, like we have to take it. How do you do it? It's such a... Do you call public? Do you call your buyer? You call supermarkets and then, you know, you have to... And they must be like, fuck this. But this happens all the time in food. It does, okay. It does. It happens all the time in food because, I mean, listen, a brand wouldn't survive if 99% of the time they weren't super reliable, you know? But I think like you're just dealing with so many components like all these raw ingredients from different places in the world and like everyone can give you paperwork and tell you like this is safe and this is exactly what it is but what if they're lying? You know, or what if... You know, so you really have to build in the right procedures. So now we're doing like three additional testing. We're going above and beyond all of like kind of the given protocol because we're like, this is never happening again. And so I think in this crazy world where there's just supply chain challenges right now and every one of the food industries has several different suppliers now for each ingredient because they want to be protected in case one of those ingredients can't ship. You know, you just have to... You're not just dealing with like one trustworthy source anymore. You have to like really build your own safety precautions. So it was a really good learning for us because thankfully it was one lot of sugar cookie dough like it was a small amount but you know, you want to make sure that never happens again. You know, and even if it's one lot they just like take all of it off the shelf and you're just like, come on, the rest of it is perfectly good. We have tests on all of them but... Yeah. You know... You can't be too safe. Yeah, exactly. Well, look, thanks for coming on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. It's a whole story. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate that. Hey, you. 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