 Welcome once again to the Breakfast of Lost in the Africa. A couple of days ago, the Nigerian government, of course, through the president's spokespersons, had made mention of plans to rid the country of insurgency by 2023. We've also shared stories on the 12 Super Tucano jets and how those, of course, will come into play very soon in the fight against insurgency. But while we have those conversations, we still, of course, are dealing with kidnappings and killings and abductions in different parts of the country. Nigeria's security system is still being questioned and its ability to truly keep Nigerians and their properties safe. Earlier this morning, we also shared stories of extortion by Nigerian police officers in Nabooja and Inugu and these, of course, are not one of stories. They are among many other stories that we hear of every other day. They basically paint a picture of what the Nigerian police force currently is and has always been. We're going to be taking a look at Nigeria's security system and the outlook for 2022, how far have we come and what more must be done. We're speaking this morning with security expert, Mr. Yehuzad Getzo. Good morning. Thanks for joining us, Mr. Getzo. Mr. Getzo, if you can hear us clearly, good morning to you. Yes, of course. I can hear you loud and clear. All right, great. Thanks for joining us. And also, Chidi Omerje, thanks also for being a part of the conversation. Thank you for having me and compliments of the season. All right. I'm going to start with Mr. Getzo. What would you describe as your own analysis with moves that the Nigerian government has made in the last couple of years, mostly in 2021, with regards beefing up Nigeria's security architecture and, of course, given of some hope with regards the next year, have we done in any way better this year? Well, first of all, looking at the 2021, is the idea that the Nigerian government and the Bahá'ís watch exhibits incompetency, incapability, inability, lack of commitment, lack of interest, poor disappointment, disgrace, and a diplomatic, local and international disgrace. It is obvious that Bahá'ís government have failed Nigerians, hopefully. So as far as we are concerned, there is nothing to write home about. All those Tocano and whatever investment and imputes made into the security have been lambasted and abused and at the same time explained and described as a failure by the members of the cabinet or by the members of the kissing cabinet of the Muhammad-Wahari administration. Let me take you back to what the lay Mohammed has been talking about, right since before the government became two years old, that they know the finances and sponsors of Boko Haram. And at the latter time, in the years of 2017, 2018, and to some extent in 2019, he made a pronouncement once again that they know the finances and the sponsors of the banditry and other activities of the criminals happening all over the country. But to our dismay and to our disappointment, if at all you know who are these people, as you have been mentioning, what we expected to see in practice is demonstration or a kind of transmission of your promises, empty promises be made that you convinced Nigerians to have voted you into power in the year 2020-2015, that you are going to secure the country, that you are going to provide job opportunities, that you are going to address as many as possible issues. But yet, discover of the security, the situation became worse than what it was before you No, Mr. Geto, I just want to quickly step in here. The president, you will go on, but I want to add this. Can you hold on, Mr. Geto? Can you hold on? The president has said that if Nigerians are sincere, they will be able to see that things are a lot better than they were when they came into office in 2015. So how do you then say that things are worse? That is a storytelling, but there is no sense yet. Or there is no water of sincerity in that. There is no honesty in that. He hasn't demonstrated. Nigerians don't want to hear the story from Buhari's mouth. They want to see it in his actions. They want to see it in his governance. They want to see it in practice. They want to see the demonstration and the practical reality on ground, not just storytelling. Remember that we have so many things related, credited to the National Security Advisor, to the Minister of Defense, to the Minister of Information, and to other ministers. And we have not seen anybody language, of Muhammad-Wahara administration, not even a physical and practical language that Buhari is really serious. The government have exhibited themselves as a kind of uncapable government, kind of exhibited in ability, in uncapable, incapability, and as a citizen demonstrated to Nigerians that is the most highest light, the light government that we ever had in the history of Nigeria. It's sad and it's disgrace. Okay, Chidi, let's also bring in Chidi Omeji. Now, one of the major responses from the federal government as regards the fight against insorgency or with the insecurity issues in the country is the change of service chiefs. Now, four months after that change actually happened, we had a major attack in Keduna where you had a Tahiru, so one of the chief of staff and several prominent military personnel lost their lives and all of that. How would you describe, you know, would you say that the change of service chief has actually contributed to the fight against insorgency? So for us in 2021. Okay. Did you say that the chief of staff lost his life through an attack? Excuse me? I don't know if I've got it. Did you say that the chief of staff died through an attack? Ibrahim. Tahiru? Tahiru. He died through an attack, what attack? No, no, there was an attack that affected some of the, you know, prominent. Not the Amistar here, I think of Amistar. Well, go on, go on, Mr. Omeji, you know. I think I'm mixing up. In any case, if I get the entire meat of your question, you're asking whether the change of service chiefs added any kind of impetus to the fight against terrorism, insorgency, and of course, battle against banditry. We have to take it from this context. Don't forget that before they were brought in, the new ones, there was a large, there was a wide demand outcry from Nigerians asking that, you know, the previous set of service chiefs be changed so that we see if there will be a new lease of life in terms of how the war or the battle has been prosecuted and that after Dili Dali, the government eventually, you know, yielded to Nigerians demand and we got those new set of chiefs and of course we saw that there was some kind of, you know, how to put it now, we saw some kind of energy, you know, brought in fresh idea, brought in fresh, there was a huge expectation. Then of course, we lost the chief of army, the gallant-looking, late chief of army staff at Tahiru, by him at Tahiru through the unfortunate A-crash, not any attack, okay? Right, so now the point here is, we've all gotten to the point where we expected, it's part of the change, but it's not entirely the fault of the new service chiefs. It is exactly, the problem is actually a very faulty internal security operations mechanism, very faulty. How do I mean? Ordinarily, what ought to have in this country is a situation where you have what we call first responders and last responders. First responders, the lead agents actually ought to have been the Nigerian police to be able to, you know, because they're everywhere, they should be able to have intelligence on ground, have good on ground, have cooperation with the safe society to be able to nip these things on the board. Then you have to have them also to deal with the situation. But if it comes to a stage where it's beyond their capacity, their capability to deal with, that is where you invite the military. What obtains now, because you have a very faulty international security operations mechanism, is that you see that the police ought to be the first, the lead agency, ought to be the first responders and are now relaxed back. So the last responder that is military have not become the first responder. So in every situation you have, you see the military being drafted in, you see the Nigerian aspect in the military to take charge. Not forgetting that this military guys were not actually trained to handle a lot of civil related issues. But we are moving on beyond that because the kind of situation we have now is even such that if you don't have what we call synergy of action between and among the military and the secret agencies, you know, even the police could not at this stage handle it. I am talking about at the initial stage when this is coming up. But right now we have the situation have gone beyond the police as you and I know. So, but you see, we ought to show respect to the military. You know what I say that? I say that because you have a military that is not even up to combined, talking about Nigerian armed forces, they don't need the army. All of them are not even up to 600,000 in terms of numerical strength. But you see them taking insurgency in the North East, the insurgency and terrorism in the North East, Banditry, heavy Banditry in the North West and in North Central. You have the separatist agitation in the South East. You have the nationalist people in the South West. You have the attacks on vital assets in the South South. So there are a lot of issues that the military are dealing with at the same time. So what I'm going to say is that, yes, just like my brother who spoke first, you know, I can understand his angst. I can understand his emotion and sentiment. And of course that is what Nigerians are feeling right now. A lot of Nigerians are so dissatisfied with the situation because you can't afford to have a country where you do not, you can't sleep and your eyes closed. So it is a difficult situation for Nigerians and it's been horrible. And then so back to your question again, yes, to an extent the new set of initiatives are brought in some level of, some level of realizations, some level of momentum into the fight. They're just barely six months in office. So we don't expect anything from them, but all we need to do is to support them. All we need to do is to encourage them. All we need to do is to request them to have more of synergy between and among the military, the security, the intelligence and response agencies in the country to be able to handle the situation. And beyond that even, we have come to a stage where the approach should be all of national approach. What we mean by all of national approach is that at a time like this, not just all of government approach, but all of nation whereby both the media, the civil society groups, the traditional rulers, the every citizen have a role to play because the issues we have right now, you can afford more effectively through intelligence driven efforts. So how do you get intelligence, information? How do you get information if people say something and say something? So what I'm going to say is we have come to a stage where showing blames about may not really help us. Have you seen what is happening in the east, not west? Have you seen what our people are going through there? In Sokotu where about 40 people are going down? You know, so many things are going down. I don't want to just say, oh, we are going to blame more instead of people. No, we almost find a way out of this situation in order to remain as people as a country. All right. Let's bring back Mr. Gatzel. Mr. Gatzel, do you have to share similar sentiments with the fact that the army needs to be commended for the efforts that they've made so far? And of course, also to remember that it's not just, you know, the responsibility of the Landryan army, but, you know, like Mr. Omegya has said, traditional rulers, civil society organizations, the citizens, the police, and everybody needs to work hand in hand. Do you have a similar thoughts? And with the pace with which we are going and the ideas of the new service chiefs that Mr. Omegya has spoken about, do you think that we are headed in the right direction? And maybe by 2023, on the next few years, we would see a complete end to the insurgency and the security challenges with the devil in Nigeria? Well, let's not deceive ourselves. The fact of the matter is we have challenges of leadership. We have voted for people that deceive Nigerian. Mr. Gatiz? Yeah, I'm with you. Go ahead. Yeah, they have deceived the people within their party, that is the all-progressive party, and they have deceived other Nigerians who are opponent. So the fact of the matter is the issue of leadership. Muhammad Wahary have demonstrated an incapability, inability, and failure of leadership quality that have been assumed, that have been assumed by Nigerians who voted and waited and escorted the vote and ensure that he is voted into the power. But I'm so grateful that Nigerians have given Muhammad Wahary an opportunity. Otherwise, he could have considered as a saint that people would be going to worship his grave if at all he wasn't elected into power. So it is the issue of leadership. It is when you have a good leadership that is when you have coordination between the military, between the police, between the GSS, the civil defense, the immigration, the customer, all other law enforcement agencies to be working with the traditional and other non-formal institutions on the ground. Yes, of course. Mr. Chidi had made mention very clear that the police who supposed to be at the front, who supposed to be the first respondent, now we are using the back end. The police supposed to be the front end. But rather we are using the back end, who are the military, who are not supposed to be exposed into the civil crisis. But fortunately and unfortunately, because of the inability and exhibition of failure of Muhammad Wahary administration, they have made it very clear that they are not capable and they cannot be able to rule Nigeria. They are a wolf and worst failure we ever had. Even though the highest inputs as far as the human resources that have been the financial resources have been made, since independence, I keep saying it that there is no government since independence that have imputed huge amount of resources, especially financial resources, especially in terms of budgeting, releasing the money for budgeted money and also claim to have purchased, have a very good system of procurement and the supply chain process and also demand another request and having a perfect system of retirement compared to that of Muhammad Wahary, but yet there is nothing on ground. So I have the same thought that it is the system failure because the government didn't come with the sincerity, there is no honesty, there is no passion, there is no patriotism. It's only proclaimed that they are going to change, to change what? What have they changed? What I expect from Nigerians is to work hard in 2022 to find a way of clearing anybody that is part of Muhammad Wahary administration, either in PDP or in APC to ensure that we clear the system and we bring a new system so that Nigeria can move forward to the next level. What I will tell you, security challenges like I mentioned by Mr. Chidi is something that I have cut across all parts of the nation. So what we are talking, we are not talking about the northern part of the country. We are not talking about the Boko Haram at the northeast, the Bandai Tree in the north-central and north-west and the agitators, the separatists in the south-south and south-east as well as the nationalist movement or whatever movement you may call it, the Odwa in the south-west and part of the country. But rather we are talking about Nigeria's unity. What Muhammad Wahary rewarded Nigerians is increasing the kind of expansion of enmity, expansion of ethnic bigotry, expansion of regional bigotry, which will not take Nigerians anywhere. As far as I'm concerned, the level of corruption also have kind of vindicated the thought and mindset of Nigerians and have really made a huge contribution in terms of a kind of a failure of the security as far as there is no synergy between the police as struggling with the military, even within the police, the mobile as struggling with an ordinary police, even within the army, the military navy is kind of computing with air force, air force is computing with the navy. We are not here, we are not after a competition. It has been made very clear that even in a statement created to Marami recently in an interview he made in Toronto that the money they collected, they returned from those who who laundered money or whatever in other countries like Abacha as the claim, I'm not justifying that Abacha have looted money, I don't have a business to do with that. I'm a security expert, I'm speaking purely on the issue of security and as far as I'm concerned, that money that Marami says that they have used in securing the nation, what security have you provided? What have you done in the country? You have failed to open it. You better resign and leave the office because you have not done anything. So as far as I'm concerned, yes, I'm with the treaty and I believe that as far as there is no synergy among the security agencies, we are not going to move anywhere and it is going to be the worst failure as the Bohara administration demonstrated the worst failure as far as management and security and intelligence management. Alright, let's also bring in Shidi Omeji. What would you say is the gap? Let's also have Shidi share his thoughts now. What would you say is the gap that you have seen in the fight against insecurity for us in 2021? I think that if you listen to Yathuza, you tend to believe him. You would like to agree with him to an extent. But don't also forget that we had sort of a conversation when the previous comment was in place. You know, people complained how Jonathan was not very effective in dealing with security challenges. So he has always been there. So what I'm going to say is that what we expected more from this current president because at least he was a general or he was a general. So I expected him to have done a lot better. But just to put it in context, the arc cry we have now was similar to what we had before this government came in. There was an abduction and a chip-off. I remember the kind of, then the government was lapped by a lot of Nigerians. But back to your question, the gaps, the biggest gap we have is intelligence asset. We've not been able to maximize and optimize our intelligence asset in the entire security architecture. Because the sort of issue we have right now are such that better dealt with if we have an effective intelligence gathering or, you know, information sharing between civilians and the populace and then, of course, the security agencies. So a lot of people are not keen into this effort because probably because of the disenchantment as I mentioned by my brother here, probably Nigerians are even tired of giving up information. So that's the greatest gap. Second gap is synergy. Synergy between and among these agencies have not been very effective even now that we're beginning to see a much more robust synergy among the military services and then, of course, the agencies. So if we are able to tie that up and, of course, not important, not important is the political will to deal with this issue. When Yahuda was talking about Malami, he forgot to add also the Office of National Security Advisor. You know, if you remember during the Soviet time he was much more prominent in this position more than this guy, current one. This current one, you know, in fact, if you give me to rate him I will not give him anything up to 20% in terms of performance because, you know, that office ought to be coordinated of it. The office that will coordinate the issues of intelligence, issues of synergy, issues of, you know, deployment and all manner of things. This office ought to be more to contribute more than to contribute it now. So I do not know why when it changes how it is it still retains him. If I really please sweet so I would know that I was starting fresh but then it's okay, I will make it look better. But if, you know, so I want to believe that from that angle you know, it comes on value. Mr. Major, before, of course, as quickly as you can, if you can do it in a minute, we'll appreciate it. The things that you've mentioned, you've mentioned, you know, poor intelligence, synergy and some of all of that. In a government that is serious about fighting insurgency and fixing the security challenges in the country, do you think six years should have been enough to fix something as vital as intelligence gathering? Bear in mind the billions and billions of Naira that have been invested in security. Mr. Major, we're still talking about a police force that is extorting Nigerians, kidnapping Nigerians and extorting them. And that just basically shows you the rot in the soul of the most basic security agency that Nigeria should have. So shouldn't six years be enough for a government that is serious about fixing some of these things and fixing, you know, the fight against insurgency? What are many times we try to point out those technical aspects? There's still a government in power that has spent billions and billions of Naira in six, seven years. And to also add, you know, recently the government is also saying that we know those who are sponsoring terrorists. As a matter of fact, we know the organization, we know the names. So I mean, I'm just wondering why if that's also, you know, a function of intelligence gathering as well to say that that's a major concern. Because if you say that you know the people who are actually funding these bandits and sponsoring them, and you also agree to the fact that you are in the know that these persons are collecting taxes. They've agreed to all of this. So what then is the issue when you have all of the bodies and, you know, you have the agencies? I mean, the police started with the responsibility of internal security. So it just slips me with a lot of question wondering if intelligence gathering also is a major concern. Okay, let me start with the first question. In terms of, he asked me if six years were not enough to... Look, you have been there ordinarily. Six years were enough to see a very clear picture of where the government is going in terms of how we want to tackle the issue. But don't also forget that insurgency or terrorism is not something you can, you won't stop. In 20 years, in fact, in the history of terrorism in the world, it's only been one place, you know, that you had, you know, an approach, you know, the top page of that particular specific. Terrorism or insurgency, you know, has a very long lifespan. You know, you don't just, you know, remove it overnight. It's not that possible. But then, yes, ordinarily, we thought, let me tell you something, we all know when this government was coming in 2025, 2015, there was this good expectation. There was this belief that things would really be clear. All right. So, so that, but really darling, the, the nonchalance, the, you know, the preparation, all the things that wasted time on, you know, I get to what I'm having now. But I believe that yeah, it's, it's a, I don't know, but I know, it's not going to come out of it. It might not be on that, it's an administration, but don't forget also that it is the same military. You know, military remains the same. There is the same military that will continue to do. But of course, like, leadership is key. Leadership is key. So, and back to the question the lady asked, you know, we've heard about, you say the locals, who is, you all that, you know, all those soldiers told us, well, I don't know how, I don't know the truth about that and if I'm in the, if I'm in government and I have idea who is causing this problem, I will not stop at anything, not like get those guys, you know, exterminated or arrested or prosecuted. You know, so telling all that, you know them and they are not getting the power to me is neither here. And that is why I don't trust that. So, you know, I don't, I don't really have a very good respect for that, for that office of the National Security Advisor now, because if you say, we know who is causing that and you have not done anything about it, how do that add to our, our decision. So, to me, look, Madam, don't play with intelligence. Intelligence is important in this issue. You cannot look down on it. If you, if you get our intelligence accepted right, look. Mr. Chidi, I totally, I totally understand what you, but I'm still also trying to understand how intelligence gathering is stopping the president from naming. I mean, that you, you need to name this person's terrorists, bandits. And that has not happened. I'm wondering why intelligence is also a problem why we have not arrested those who are sponsoring this element. It seemed that we're in conversation. Over time, we have had several deniers that we're not paying, I mean, we're not paying ransom for the exchange. So far, statistic has it that you have about 1,440 students that have been kidnapped from the nothing part of Nigeria with 25 schools attacked. So, I'm still also wondering how intelligence with all of the information that we have, we know the people who are perpetrating this evil and no one has been arrested. No one has been prosecuted, but rather we have persons who have been, we have said, oh yes, it's okay to receive all of the pattern and come through less integrity into the society. So, I'm sure that a lot of persons would also be questioning, you know, how intelligence, not to say that intelligence gathering is not important in the fight against insecurity, but we have seen a situation where we are in the know, we have the information, but we're not acting. We're not doing what we should do. And then we have all of the bodies that are, you know, saddled with the responsibility of executing and prosecuting those involved. So it feels like we're just treating some of these issues with kid gloves and the issue of, you know, I mean, in different parts of the country, you want to talk about the South is, the issues are quite different and not the same with what you have, you know, in the northern part of Nigeria. So, all of that, would you still say that that's an issue or a concern of intelligence? Well, I don't know if, look, I am not, you are right to an extent. What I'm trying to say is that, I'm not, look, of course you know that I will not know who they perform in the body, but probably, they've not been able to tell us the, this complex, because maybe the investigation is going on to, to make sure they get all of, all the people involved, because if you mention them immediately, it might, it might, you know, impact on the investigative process, but that's, that's my thinking, but that is not to say that they've done a wrong work. Look, you are very right to an extent, because if you look at it, we have seen women telling us how, remember those guys they arrested in, I think Dubai, right, about 60 people there about, you know, and they said they were prosecuted because they were sponsoring Boko Haram. We have had also a number of, you know, revelations and a bunch of who are where they start coming from. What my advice to look at now is how do we get our lives back? And I do not really want to get involved in all these critiques, you know, what is important to me is how do we get out of the situation right now? The only way we can get out of the situation is to keep talking about it, to bring up ideas that can help. For the protesters, what is lacking is the political will to even you know, bring to life those ideas are being enforced. So I expect that the government should have that political will, that strength, that, you know, conviction to go deep and then, you know, arrest those who were supposed to be arrested and prosecute those who were supposed to be prosecuted. So going around is, you know, neither here nor there. So I do with you to an extent and I believe that I hope the government before and not I think what is happening and they are not happy and they expect that as we are going into the future that is a lot, a lot better because we can't continue this project and hope. Alright. Alright Mr. Omidya. You also get so, you also get so, let's bring you back in, you know, and I'm going to take you back to a question that I asked earlier and that is if six years should really be enough to see a difference and maybe not a difference with immediate an immediate end in the agency but at least see a difference in the processes with which we conduct security in Nigeria. Should six years be enough to see better investments in intelligence, to see better investments in the armed forces and the police and security, you know, structure in general. And of course if what would you have expected to be the very first steps that the current administration should have taken about fixing Nigeria security challenges? Well, let me first of all start by correcting my sister that a bandit have not been declared as a terrorist. Bandits have been declared as a terrorist by the Bahá'í administration government recently in about three weeks ago and the question is it's not about declaring them terrorists or not declaring them terrorists. Whether they are declared terrorists or they are not declared as terrorists because they are violating the action, the constitution as well as the kind of what is expected. So going into your question I'll tell you six years going by the imputes made by Bahá'í administration into the security. Like I keep saying I commend them in respect to the amount of money imputed in security. Looking at the 2015 2016 budget 2017, 18, 19 and up to you know what I had about the Muhammad Bari mentioning the amount he wanted he budgeted for 2022. My basic assumption was that maybe he is going to take us into the Monsite so that Nigerians will be moved out of the present territory to another to extent of Monsite so that will be there will be straight there. So the fact is that if at all there is seriousness if at all Bahá'í government is honest if at all there is sincerity in purpose if at all there is commitment passion and patriotism and if at all they were not in the government on seat of the power to deceive Nigerians not even six years even three even within three years or even less than that if there is commitment if there is passion and if there is true practical political and administrative will they could have changed the narrative even within a number of couple of months not even to talk of the six years so their six years is a wasted period their six years is a disappointment disgrace I want to tell you that what in 2022 there is nothing they can do because all these saying that we are procured to Kano we are procured these jets we are procured this armament this and that have you forgotten that it was the same national security adviser came out through a statement credited to him through BBC House and he made mention very clear that huge amount of money have been predicted and released for the purpose of security a purchase of armament and improving the security situation but he don't know as a chief of army staff that is a statement and if you look at this statement also credited to what is credited recently to the attorney general of the federation that is Samalani and what is credited to Lai Muhammad and even what is credited to come through Garbashaw and Adesina is government supposed to have gone home they are supposed to have resigned because they have wasted Nigerian time they have wasted our resources and there is no nothing like a result so I want to tell you that what I expect from them in the year 2022 is probably probably if they could be serious is to sustain the tempo probably to stop the number of attacks but I want to tell you that the attacks is still ongoing in all part of all part of all these regions what will make you laugh is that you know I am a practical investigator because I go to these locations there is no where this criminality is happening in northern Nigeria in the north central in the south south south that I didn't step in I step in and I have seen practical so let me tell you within every 15 kilometer radius to 25 kilometer radius in all part of the northern Nigeria there is a presence of commanding units there is a military unit and within every 20 to 30 kilometers there is a divisional police office within every 30 to 35 kilometers there is a formation of the DSS within every 15 to 25 kilometers there is a formation of either a custom civil defense immigration as well as the the other intelligence other law enforcement agents so I wonder how comes how comes these criminals can move in hundreds 300 motorbike motorcycles 400 500 160 100 150 carrying 33 people in each of the motorbike and carrying AK-47 and AK-49 and other armament RPG, BMD and other sophisticated ammunition and they move freely to go and conduct their activity and move back let me tell you if you have only 20 motorbikes moving in a desert area or in a more area that is not tied definitely you will see the dust dust is enough to send a message to that military formation within 20 to 25 kilometers that there is an attempt to make an attack and at the same time you may mention that you know who are the financiers why can't you prosecute or execute or silently use your intelligence here to eliminate them or start eliminating some of them or executing them in public so that it will serve as a deterrence which means that probably you are the financiers of all these activities if you are not why are you having the list and you cannot expose the list why are you having the knowledge of who are the financiers and you cannot take action against them why are you killing innocent why are you sending our military where they are not supposed to be why can't you recruit more hunks in the police let me tell you if all the government can recruit 40 youths between the age of 17 and 22 from each polling unit if a world have 10 polling units you will have 400 if a local government have 10 political words you are going to have 4,000 youths between the age of 14 17 I mean 22 so that you can you can push them into the police so that the police who are supposed to be the first respondent will have the capability will have the ability I want to tell you that some of the guns that Nigerian police are carrying have aged their parents it means that it has been there since independence or even before independence so when you don't have armaments and the question is all the input made yes of course you have made the input we have seen that we have seen the budget we have tracked the budget we are monitoring the budget we are monitoring the release of budgetary allocated for security intelligence and other activities but the question is why are we seeing the results we are seeing is only the fact that the security personnel have only been the richer the richer and richer and nobody is checking that so why is it that you cannot use those inputs you made in managing and attending and addressing the intelligence issue and I want to tell you that every month there used to be a security meeting at the local government local government monthly security meeting so if you are having these meetings and yet there is no result and this meeting is involving the traditional rulers from the bottom to the top level of the local government that is from the ward head from the community head or from the ward head from the district the village head and involving the chief security officers chief security officer of the local government that is the local government administrator if at all we have local government because as far as I'm concerned the local government administration has been scrapped by the Muhammadi ward administration if not formally you are as it gets okay you hear us Actions have demonstrated that from what we have from what we have on ground there is nothing like local government so why that meeting is the end and objective of that meeting is to have intelligence information generated you share with the state command that is the DSS command the police command the Navy command the Air Force command and the general Overseer of the national security is a national security advisor who is supposed to have written a number of memos briefing them Mr. President about A, B, C, D and providing necessary recommendations and at the same time give instructions to the Navy to the Air Force that go and do this go and do this and let me tell you the final before just I go that all these bandits all these kidnappers we said and I said and I'm repeating myself there is nobody they are not foreigners one I disagree that they are foreigners they are Nigerian nationals we know them we know where they are we know their parents we know their locations they are living within us they are attacking us and there is no member of the state or national assembly or senate that will tell me that in his constituency or in our constituency he or she don't know where these criminals are we know their locations so where are you meeting around the bush why can't you go and deal with them decisively so that we go we finish this issue and we will stop Western resources when you are imputed into the security and intelligence management have not in any way moved Nigeria from where we were before to where we supposed to be when we move from worst from prime fan to fair so there is no result only government it's time in the last six years and we cannot and we are not ready to give any to give them any aorta of benefit of doubt that in 2022 they are going to do any I think we can perform miracles or what we expect them to do they are not going to do anything they should get themselves ready to get out of the system so that we Nigerians advocate and call for Nigerians to work hand in hand forget about your differences and work together to ensure that you send administration and their allies out of the system of governance so that they will not able to return around and let's bring more people that can hold on confidence and trust on to manage the security manage the intelligence and ensure that necessary practically let's get to currently hold on should you imagine would you agree that we are really just coasting until 2023 to of course change see a change in government and there's really not much that will be achieved security wise between now and the end of the current administration's tenure I don't believe that between now and 2023 President Muhammad is going to achieve anything Mr. Gatzel hold on kindly hold on Mr. Gatzel I want to change your measure to quickly respond to that sorry Mr. Omerge kindly go on yes please okay I do not believe that we can get anything very substantial between now and when this government leaves but I believe that the best government would do for us is to to ensure that we maintain the momentum maintain reduced the number of attacks we we blow more into our intelligence assets because you see I mean look a lot of boot on the ground cannot even do the job there's what we call kinetic and non-kinetic approach to these things when we say non-kinetic it means looking at other areas what are the causes of this what are the issues that are contributing to this problem what are the challenges how do we ensure that these guys do not have recruitment we have to look at all these things look I understand a lot I get I understand the motion I have the right to see what is happening we need to really understand how things have really gone bad so it's not something we cannot get rid of we cannot get rid of them it will just in one hand it's going to be systematic it's going to take a lot of time now things have gone or are already things have gone bad the only thing to do now is to how do we minimize incident how do we how do we ensure that we don't have what many more youths being enrolled into these groups and again I don't agree with him when he said that the entire Nigerians we know we know that we have a very weak border stuff and we know that a lot of some of the people see material see people from different parts of West Africa because we have very bad border stuff so I agree I want to say that the challenge is more than you think it's not as simplistic as we are trying to put it because you have a cross-border but literally happening you have people we have so many so many or so much ungoverned spaces there's so much big places that you cannot look even if you have a police checkpoint or a military checkpoint you know every other what about the forest the ungoverned spaces where these guys got attacked from they don't attack mostly on their express villages how do we have enough to cover the villages so I'm going to say that what we need now is to see how we can make use of a non-connected issues to deal with this matter okay Chidi Omerje let's just quickly for the want of time because we're coasting down I mean in no time we're going to call it a wrap but let's just also let's quickly move to Yaouzou Getso and I'd like to say that the Nigerian police will be getting an upward review come 2022 20% and according to the government this is in response to the hashtag answers I mean some of the demand of the hashtag answers protest or protesters now according to you know this particular policy direction and action whether or not there will be implementation it's also another issue but the fact that it's been stated by the government and I'd like to share your thoughts on that do you see us have you know a fantastic police force come 2022 with this upward review Well I commend for making the review for the Nigerian police but I want to tell you and I am very optimistic if I'm alive and you are alive I got willing by December 2022 we'll come back and revisit this subject nothing will come from the Nigerian police I know is concerned that it will not open their attitude the issue is reorientation of the cycle the cycle and the system and operating system of the Nigerian police you know we are just talking about them extorting money from people in Abuja I traveled yesterday for 13 hours and from where I moved to where I am talking to you now around about eight police checkpoints and in all these checkpoints they were just extorting money from them the drivers who are moving to the markets or the commuters who are moving around they are not checking anything so it is orientation it is a psychology that need to be changed I I will commend the Nigerian police leadership if they can sit back and also relax and think about how to change the reorientation psychology of the police officer constable police to the inspector general of police because it is something that cut across all the system of the Nigerian police more than 90% of the people of the personnel in the Nigerian police force are rotting they have that ideology of extorting money collecting money for this and necessary ABCD and yet ordinarily if you go to lodge a complaint at the police station either out for the regional police station or sometimes even at the state comment they will ask you to go and buy a paper and pen sometimes in many cases they don't even have an ordinary paper so where is the money being budgeted for stationery and other things which means that it is a psychology that need to be changed I commend the government for reviewing but I want to tell you we are coming back myself and you in this same station to discuss in December 2022 to make a review what is the impact of reviewing the the police welfare or salary afterwards as far as the effect on that an impact in 2022 between January or between the time of implementation to the end time and I want to tell you even before they get this forward reviewed money it may also take us up to April or May also and what I see I am going to ask you to check in February in March in April to see that if really it is affected into practice because I know it is the system Alright Mr. Getzo we appreciate your time this morning thank you very much for being with us and for speaking with us and also thank you very much for your time and for sharing your thoughts with us with me it's been a great pleasure very very important issues I wish you both are very beautiful ahead thank you well that's the much we can take at this point in time we appreciate your time definitely come through tomorrow with the show and the time again is seven o'clock if you missed out on any part of the conversation it's all right to follow us on Facebook and Instagram what Floss TV Africa and YouTube is a Floss TV Africa lifestyle I am Merci beaucoup to have a great day so goodbye