 So good morning. Welcome back. For those of you who were here yesterday, welcome. For those of you who were here for the first time today, this is the second day of our conference. Who says you can't have a little bit of cartoon fun at a central banking conference? I want to thank Jay Campbell for putting that video together. It was really a nice new touch for us to do a promo video with a cartoon in it. I'm really excited for today's conversation. Adrienne and I together as you know are leading this project with the Gates Foundation to identify technology, business, and policy innovations that central banks could employ to a better foster financial inclusion. Yesterday, we had a great conversation, a set of conversations and a great keynote speech from Mary Ellen Discundarian of Women's World Banking about the gender gap and access to financial services and some strategies central banks can use to increase access for women and to improve local economies. Today we're going to hear in just a moment with a keynote from Jennifer Tesher of the Financial Health Network formerly CFSI. I can't quite let go of that former moniker. And Jen has really been a leader in the U.S. in changing the conversation about financial inclusion and to focus not just on access to financial products and services but to a more holistic view of financial health. And so we're delighted she's here. We're going to hear more about that from her in just a moment. We're obviously in an era of great technological change, a lot of innovation, a lot of new products and services being offered, new players in the market. And over the course of the day we're going to hear about many of those innovations, how central banks might respond to those innovations or help lead innovation or get out of the way of innovation depending on one's perspective. And really excited not only for the speakers who you're going to be hearing from up here but also incredibly knowledgeable members of the audience again from all over the world. So we're going to have plenty of time for interactive conversation for Q&A and discussion in the break. So I'm looking forward to that as well. So before we dive in, just a few key housekeeping items. You're currently in the auditorium and we'll spend most of the day in here. Copy and refreshments will be in the atrium. Our first keynote speaker will be in here and then we'll hear from our first panel. At lunch we'll go back to the Great Lakes room down the hall and we'll be there for our second panel discussion. Following the panel, the second panel will return to this room for panels three and four and our closing keynote. At the end of each keynote or panel if there's time to do so we'll open the floor to questions. Look out for the mic runners and please do use them as remember we have our online audience watching with us over the next couple of days. You should also feel free to tweet or use your LinkedIn to promote the conference. Hashtag of the future or CBOTF. I think I got that right. So we welcome your tweets and social media outputs from this. So without further delay it's my pleasure to introduce our keynote speaker this morning, Jennifer Tesher of the Financial Health Network. Jennifer is the president and CEO of the Financial Health Network, the nation's authority on consumer financial health. She founded the Financial Health Network, Ben CFSI in 2004 and has since achieved notable success as a champion for increased access to high quality financial products and services for underserved consumers. The research that the Financial Health Network puts out is second to none and really a wonderful resource for everybody in this space including most recently the U.S. financial health polls. I would recommend as a must read for everybody in this room and online. Jennifer is a nationally known thought leader on the topic of consumer financial health often contributing to American banker and Forbes. She's a frequent speaker across a broad spectrum of industry and policy convenings including everything from money 2020 in Vegas to the Department of Treasury in D.C. She launched the Financial Health Network's annual conference Emerge, the Financial Health Forum which presents cutting edge thought leadership and showcases innovators executives and emerging companies in the financial services industry. Jennifer also received Crane's Chicago Business 40 under 40 award in 2006 and is currently an advisory council member to actually own center for financial inclusion. She received undergraduate and graduate degrees in journalism from Northwestern University and a public policy degree from the University of Chicago. I also have the unique privilege of working with Jennifer as a member of the Board of Directors of the Financial Health Network so I get an up close view on this amazing woman and all the critical work that she does. So I feel particularly lucky to be able to introduce her today and I think we're all very lucky to have her open our day two of this conference. Jennifer. Good morning. Good morning. That was kind of weak people. It's early, it's cloudy outside. Good morning. Thank you so much, Adrienne, for that really lovely introduction and thanks to both you and to Michael for having me here and for making me feel like a rock star with all those crazy tweets you've been sending out about my speaking here. Really I am incredibly honored to be in such incredible company. I'm quite humbled by it. This is a really expert audience and I know that I have a lot to learn so I'm really looking forward to the rest of today and I hope you'll take my remarks this morning as just some food for thought as we continue the conversations. So when I was first asked to come and speak with you I found myself flummoxed because it's really hard to think about the central bank of the future and where you want to go without getting stuck on how you get there. And then it was Bill Gates who got me unstuck, maybe not directly, but when I called Adrienne to say hey help, you know, how do I think about this? She said don't worry about it. Bill said go out 50 years. Don't be constrained by what we know about central banks today, you know, just think about where you want to be. Then we'll figure out how to make it possible and I said oh that's something I can do. Some might find that intimidating but for me it really freed me up to be more creative. I was less worried about how to get there and more focused on where we want to be. And so I have two wishes for the central bank 50 years from now. One, that the financial health of the citizenry is as important a goal as the health of the economy. And two, that data assets are understood to be at least as important as financial assets and are regulated and managed as such. So I'm going to talk about each of my wishes in the rest of this talk and I'm going to explain what they have to do with each other if it's not already clear. But first let me just say a little bit more about who I am so that you can put my remarks into context. As Adrienne already said I'm the founder and CEO of the financial health network which until just May was known as the Center for Financial Services Innovation and the organization has been around 15 plus years so you'll forgive Michael and potentially even me if I stumble over my new name. We're a resource to business leaders, innovators and policy makers who are working to improve the financial health of their customers, employees and communities. We lead a network of 160 plus companies including most of the big brands and cutting edge fintechs in the financial services industries in the U.S. We invest in and support early stage innovators using technology to solve financial health challenges and we have a portfolio of about 40 companies and organizations. We publish an annual national longitudinal survey the U.S. Financial Health Pulse that measures the financial health of people in America and we've developed a measurement methodology and a set of tools to enable a wide array of companies and organizations to measure the financial health of their stakeholders often as part of a broader effort to implement financial health as a business strategy. Now let me give you a few caveats. My entire career has been focused on the U.S. market and while I participated in the global dialogue on financial inclusion and I'm a member of the advisory council for the Center for Financial Inclusion at Oxyone I have relied on many of the people in this room to teach me about the context in developing countries and I still have very much to learn. In addition I am not an economist. I am not a lawyer. I have been a banker but I self identify as a former journalist, a financial health expert and a lover of audacious ideas that can make the world a better place. Okay so on to my first wish the financial health of the citizenry is as important a goal as the health of the economy. The first question you may be asking is why financial health not financial inclusion? And in fact I was just sitting with someone I've just met and he says financial health you mean like managing people's stock portfolios? I said no no no. I'm not going to answer right now because you're going to be really bored for the next hour. Well the reason why we need to be thinking beyond financial inclusion is because of the incredible success of the people in this room. At the rate we're going we're going to be on track to solve the pure inclusion problem well before 50 years from now. According to Findex just in the last 8 years the share of adults who own an account through a financial institution or a mobile money service has increased 18 points from 51% to 69%. That is remarkable. No other word for it. It's remarkable. Now there's lots of issues that remain. We've talked about dormancy I know that those numbers aren't quite as rosy in developing countries. I'm not saying we've got it all solved but if we think that having an account or having access is the first step we have made incredible progress. And in fact the financial inclusion community over the last couple of years has really begun to grapple with what comes after inclusion. And I would argue that what comes next is a focus on financial health. This really reflects on my journey and the organization's journey. We started life as an organization that was started to shine a spotlight on the needs of on and underbanked consumers here in the United States and the role that technology could play in helping get them connected. And this is 2004. So this is the year that Google went public. It was the year that Mark Zuckerberg invented the Facebook in his dorm room. But this was pre-iPhone. So we knew that technology was coming and changing but we of course I'd be lying if I said I had any clue what was really to come. And so when you think about the states at least the invention of prepaid cards coupled with the iPhone which came out in 2007 it really made access ubiquitous. That's not to say there aren't people in the United States or in other developed countries who don't have a bank account but it's incredibly small. People who may be unbanked today may have had an account yesterday and they may have one again tomorrow. And so the sort of basic inclusion problem felt like we were on the cusp of solving it. And then we had the financial crisis in the Great Recession and that made it clear that all was not well with everybody and that in fact the majority of people in this country were struggling financially and we just missed it. We were capturing the wrong data. We didn't see the fact that people were dramatically over indebted and that that was helping them essentially finance their basic lives. And so that's when we came to understand that access wasn't enough and that we needed to be thinking about the next chapter and that's when we invented this idea of financial health which I'm going to tell you about in a moment. Now I think you already know this but I do need to make the point that owning an account itself is great but it's not sufficient. We talked yesterday about India where amazingly the government facilitated opening accounts for everybody but half of them are dormant. I can give very similar statistics in the United States. 89% of people in the United States according to our research have a checking account but of those 68% are not financially healthy, 30% aren't able to pay their bills on time and 39% wouldn't be able to pay an emergency $400 expense with cash or a cash equivalent. Moreover owning an account isn't always a good thing. Just look at the overdraft problem in the United States where seven of some of the largest banks in the United States generate at least 30% of their service charts income from overdrafts and consumers are paying the numbers are not as clear as they should be but anywhere from 10 to 20 billion dollars with a B each year on overdrafts. Look at lending products both in the United States and around the world that give lenders huge power to collect because they have access to that bank account. So what I'm here to talk about today and what I really think we should care about and central banks should ultimately care about is the outcome that we want for people. What happens after you own that account and you use it we want people to be financially healthy. We need to raise the bar beyond consumers just being financially literate protected and banked which again are all three very important things but those alone don't necessarily mean financial well-being. So what is financial health? We define it as having a day-to-day system that enables you to build resilience and thrive or to pursue opportunities. Many other organizations including the CFPB here in the United States have their own definitions. They are all roughly the same. They may use slightly different words but they are all about the idea of having systems today that allow you to prepare for tomorrow both managing the downside and the upside. So what's the state of financial health in the United States? How do you know if you're financially healthy? After years of research there are eight indicators. They are coupled around four basic functions that we all need. Spending, saving, borrowing, and planning. Each one of those has two indicators and they're not rocket science. The indicators for spend are I have more coming in than goes out and I can pay all my bills in one time and in full just to give you a flavor. Or for saving it's I have enough short-term savings and I have enough long-term savings. And we've actually developed a score, a financial health score on a scale of 0 to 100. And so when we survey people and ask them these eight questions we are able to group them into three categories healthy, coping, and vulnerable. We're also able to give them a score. And when we do that in the United States we find that only 28% are healthy. 55% are coping and 17% are vulnerable. Now I want to just be clear this is an intentionally high bar. This is not graded on a curve. And coping means you're doing okay. For some people they're doing more okay than others. So it's a nice headline to say 72% of Americans aren't financially healthy but there is a lot of... It's important to disaggregate the data because I think what I would say and we do that in our Pulse report. So what are we doing with all this measurement in the United States? Well we're working with members of our network who are taking these exact same questions and measuring the financial health of their own customers. These are banks, fintechs, other kinds of financial services providers, some insurance companies. And they're then able to benchmark against national regional averages. And they're also able to break down their own mental preconceptions about who they think their customers are versus what the reality is for those customers. And they're then able to use that data and understanding to build products, services, experiences, policies, marketing campaigns that are really aimed at trying to improve where their customers need help. We've got almost 50 companies doing that. Some of them have been doing it now for several years. They have year on year data. Some of them are now starting to use their own transactional data in place of survey questions to be able to assess those indicators, which is incredibly exciting because it makes it easier for everybody. And we also see measurements starting to happen around the world. In other developed countries in particular, Australia, tremendous amount of work by Commonwealth Bank of Australia. There is a new national Canadian measurement survey, the results of which will be out in November, I'll be in your city in Toronto to talk about them that TD Bank has been working on. There's been some interest in Western Europe in doing something similar. And so we're really excited to see this catching on. Not just because it's nice to know, but because we can't hold ourselves accountable for the financial health of our customers or even our employees for that matter if we're not measuring. We know what works with the new products and new services and new things that we're offering if we're not actually able to measure. Now, some of you may be asking what is the relevance of this framework to the developing world? Well, several years ago in partnership with Axion, we did some work to understand that very question, thanks to support from the Gates Foundation. We did work in Kenya and India to understand how they related to this concept. From a qualitative perspective, we found that people use very similar words to define financial health in Kenya and India as they do in the United States. We then developed a tailored set of potential indicators, recognizing that these contexts are quite different and the questions, the indicators aren't going to be exactly the same. We also recognize the need to consider other issues like absolute income level. Is there a level below which this is just not relevant? This is not on Maslow's hierarchy. The role one plays in one's household, I'm thinking a lot about Mary Allen's comments yesterday, the even more dramatic levels of income volatility. Now, Gates is finding some additional work happening right now through IPA to develop the right set of survey questions to actually measure the indicators effectively. I can tell you this is really hard. I can tell you they've tried and the first go around didn't yield the results they were hoping for. They're going back to the drawing board. Doing this cross country is just incredibly challenging. The initial work we did gives me hope that there might be an opportunity for a common framework and set of language that we can all use to be having this conversation globally. What would it mean for central banks to have information about the financial health of the citizenry? Well, it might enable the creation of a dual mandate that the economy is healthy and the health of citizens are healthy. It seems like they should be one and the same thing, feeding each other, but it's not necessarily the case. For instance, in the United States when the Federal Reserve lowers interest rates to encourage borrowing and to encourage growth, particularly among businesses and corporations, those lower interest rates can be harmful to individual savers, especially to older Americans nearing or in retirement who are really counting on that interest that they're earning. There's clearly a connection between macroeconomic health and microeconomic health. Consumer financial challenges are often the canary in the coal mine that signals that the broader economy is headed for trouble. Consider the subprime mortgage meltdown in the United States that triggered the last financial crisis. Yet academics and central banks tend to consider macroeconomics in isolation from each other as separate disciplines. If the macroeconomy is the balance sheet and the microeconomy is the P&L, then what we're really missing in a way is the cash flow statement that connects them. And I think that financial health data may turn out to be an effective linkage. Understanding this linkage is critical to designing policies that can improve overall economic health without sacrificing Main Street for Wall Street or vice versa. Which is to say financial inclusion and ultimately financial health need to be more than just a standalone mandate or function. Ultimately it needs to be integrated into the broader role of central banks and it needs to be part of their purpose. That's a word we didn't really talk about a lot yesterday. We talked about what the remit is, what the roles are, what the functions are. But if we're thinking about 50 years, what we really need to start from is what's the purpose. I think that's really important. Okay, on to wish number two. Wish number two is that data assets are understood to be at least as important as financial assets and are regulated and managed as such. For the last 10 plus years we have been enthralled with the rise of new technologies that have literally changed how we live our lives, including our financial lives. Technology gets a massive share of the credit for the progress that has been made in inclusion. The power of financial technology to expand access to and use of accounts is probably demonstrated best in sub-Saharan Africa where 21% of adults now have a mobile money account. That's twice the present in 2014 and easily the highest of any region in the world. But technology alone isn't going to get us to financial health. If technology is the car, then data is the fuel. You've no doubt heard the expression that data is the new oil. And that's not just figurative. So consider the world's most valuable companies by market capitalization. 10 years ago, just 10 years ago, three of the top 10 were oil and gas companies. Another three were banks. Today the end of the third quarter of 2019 five of the top 10 were data platforms. Amazon, Google, Facebook, Alibaba and Tencent. Microsoft is number one. There are no oil and gas companies on that list and there's only one bank. That's in 10 years. The increasing sophistication of technology and computing power have crowned data king. And that's particularly true in financial services. The integrity, availability, security and portability of data are increasingly at the heart of the banking system and the financial system more broadly. Consumers, particularly lower income consumers often generate more data assets that are more valuable in the market than their financial assets. So consider what we've learned from the financial diaries methodology that was pioneered around the globe and then led you several years ago in the United States and in partnership with NYU and Jonathan Morduk and my former colleague Rachel Schneider. We applied the methodology in the United States and followed 235 low and moderate income families for a year documenting every dollar that flowed in and out of their households. By the end, we had gathered 300,000 cash flows covering 100 different spending categories, 38 income types and 69 kinds of financial instruments. The dollar value of the inflows and outflows from the typical savings account vastly exceeded the total accumulation. This kind of data and the use of it and the consumers control over it is an essential ingredient in the recipe for financial health and inclusion. Consider the big topics on today's agenda. AML, well that's fundamentally about identity. How can I prove that you are who you say you are? Blockchain, while I know that there are some incredible innovation going on around digital currencies, many of the use cases today are really focused on distributed ledger as a more efficient way of keeping track of the data about who owns what. I mean that's what a ledger is, right? It's just a way to keep track of data. Data is power and consumers don't really have very much power because they generally don't own and control their own data. What could they do if they did? Well they could shop more effectively for financial products having providers bidding for their business they could trade it for preferential pricing for identity verification. They could provide it to a lender for credit underwriting. In the US and in other highly developed economies, AI fueled by consumer data is being used to optimize decision making. When to pay a bill, how much to sweep into savings, how to avoid a potential overdraft. Many of the companies that we've invested in are pioneering exactly these kinds of solutions. Central banks have a major stake in this issue in terms of both managing risk and creating the conditions for economic growth and opportunity. Given the constant attacks on bank data systems by state actors central banks should be worried about both the systemic risk of breaches and the impact of breaches on consumer well being. Meanwhile, as I said a moment ago, empowering consumers to control their own data has the power to create more market competition and drive positive financial health outcomes. Central banks around the world have been set up to manage financial assets. Their liquidity, their quality and the procedures, processes and capital necessary to maintain a stable system. They're not set up to provide the same services and protections when it comes to data assets. In fact, no one is. The world is really just beginning to reckon with this issue. Providers in Europe are really the first guinea pigs trying to figure out how to balance a set of GDPR requirements to keep data private with the PSD2 requirements to securely share data. Australia seems to be headed down a similar path. And while there's a law in the United States that suggests that consumers indeed own their own financial data, there are no enabling regulations. And so with that void, industry has taken the self-regulation route, working collectively on technical standards, but largely cobbling the rest of the rules via two-party contracts between banks and data aggregators. And in a market with 6,000 plus banks, that's not going to end well, I suspect. I believe there's a critical role for central banks to play in ensuring that consumers are empowered. And that actually brings me back to wish number one. So my two wishes may seem unrelated at first glance. One, that financial health of the citizenry is as important a goal as the health of the economy. And two, that data assets are understood to be at least as important as financial assets and are regulated and managed as such. But in fact, they are deeply interconnected. Central banks play a major role in ensuring consumers are empowered to own and control their financial data. Only makes sense in a world where central banks are responsible, not just for a healthy economy, but also for a healthy citizenry. And if central banks are going to hold themselves accountable for the financial health of citizens, then they're going to need data of their own to measure and monitor financial health. In the United States, I want to commend the Federal Reserve for being productive on the data front. The primary tool the Fed has for understanding what goes on with households has been for years now the survey of consumer finance, which is essentially a tri-annual survey of the ledger, who owns what. Now six years ago, as our financial diaries findings and the importance of cash flow and income volatility were coming to light, the Fed added a new annual survey to its arsenal, the survey of household economics and decision making, or SHED. It provides a far more nuanced view of the real financial lives of Americans and is a first step in taking a more holistic approach to stewarding the economy. But to highlight the cultural challenges involved in thinking differently about the role and purpose of central banks, consider that the SHED is included on the Fed's website under the consumers and communities tab as opposed to the survey of consumer finance data, which you can find under both the economic research tab and the data tabs. But you won't find the SHED in either of those two categories. As I said, I really like big ideas. It's easy to talk about big ideas, frankly, especially when you've got 50 years. But it's a lot harder to figure out how we get there from here. And there are numerous obstacles, legal, regulatory, cultural, political. And I expect that most of the conversation today is going to unearth those challenges and enable us to grapple with them. As we get into the much needed weeds and details, I hope you will hold in the back of your mind my two wishes, whatever your wishes might be, for the central bank of the future. This convening and the central bank of the future initiative give me hope that together we can both dream big and then make those dreams a reality. Thanks very much. I'm happy to take questions. I think they're coming around with a microphone. Hello. My name is Viola Llewollan. I'm the co-founder and president of Avamba, a trade tech solution for the African market. And I love how you separate financial inclusion from financial health. But I was very curious to know whether the three buckets of measurement for financial health that you mentioned, do you foresee a need to blend that with FICO scores to get a much better, deeper appreciation? Because a lot of times people don't actually know what their credit score means, or how they can use it and leverage it, and where we are on the continent, we don't even have that. So I'm very curious to know whether there is a move for such a concept. Right. Well, that's interesting. And this I think is the difference of contexts. In the United States, where there is a robust credit bureau system, I would say most people, including most lenders, would tell you that their credit score is an insufficient tool for actually separating goods from bads. And we particularly learn that in the crisis, in the financial crisis. And in fact, here there's efforts and have been for quite a while to bring in as much additional data as possible that's not credit bureau data. And so we see a financial health score, if you will, as really a more holistic view into consumer well-being. And for instance, under the borrow indicators, which would be relevant in this conversation, they are, I have a good credit score. So that's kind of factored in. And then the other is, I have a manageable debt load. And unlike a lot of credit underwriting for say, unlike a lot of credit underwriting, we're also including in their rental payments, other basic things, so that what we would think of as being reasonable might be less than what a traditional lender might consider. I'm not at all suggesting that I think our score should be a pure replacement for the credit score, nor are we doing any work with consumers directly to say, hey, you should know what your financial health score is. We're a long way from that even being a possibility. However, some of the companies that we're working with are putting if in some cases a score, and in some cases simply explanatory information about, hey, you took this survey, here's what we're learning about your financial wherewithal, here's some advice about what you might want to do. So we do have some early learnings about what that experience is like for the customer or the employee to receive that information. How do you handle that conversation? What else do you need to provide alongside that? Or in addition, how do you keep this front and center in people's minds? I think in countries with less developed or completely undeveloped credit markets, I think there's an incredible opportunity in the same way in payments you just leapfrogged right over to digital I think there's going to be an incredible opportunity as more people are connected into the system to be generating the kind of data that if they have the power to own and use can be very powerful. If not, there are huge downside risks here that I don't want to overlook, not just about data security and privacy but also about who's using your data and for what purpose. So that's why I think the ownership question and the empowering the citizens to own and control their own data is going to be so important. Aisha Ahmad, Central Bank of Nigeria. The two wishes that you spoke about this morning very compelling. So the first is you said around all central bankers looking and focusing not only on the economic, the broader economic well-being but that of the citizens and the second about looking at data and putting data ownership at the hands of the individuals. I was hoping or I thought you were going to land around is monetizing that data for the benefit of each of the citizens. Is that anywhere near what you think the future holds because I was making the connection between how healthy you are in terms of your incomeings and outgoings and how do you generate, if you can't generate financial assets, if you generate data assets can that actually make you more well off. So if you could speak about that. Exactly what you said. Yes. That is absolutely a possibility and in the United States for instance that's a real topic of conversation. I met with a senior executive at one of the three credit bureaus here in the United States a few weeks ago and he said the future is user permissioned data. So that's the in between step. Credit bureaus are ready to say you can own and control it but increasingly that's the at least got to be user permissioned. And I think this conversation comes up a lot in the context not of financial data or assets per se, financial data but around your social data. What you're generating off Amazon, Facebook, etc. But I think absolutely the same idea holds for financial data. And if we can build platforms and systems and processes that will work for financial grade data it will apply elsewhere. So that was a really intriguing lecture. I think one important consideration is if central banks or to have expanded mandates that would include presumably not only their traditional mandates of price stability and in some jurisdictions full employment but were to include financial health would it also require that central banks be accorded a broader set of tools to achieve those mandates. Right now it's quite difficult for central banks to achieve their current mandates using their existing tools. So do they need for instance the ability to engage in more fiscal what were traditionally regarded as fiscal measures to provide subsidies for instance for certain sectors to stimulate the economy or at the same time insulating say savers from some of those effects. That's an excellent question I actually maybe you're going to think that I'm punting but I actually think that's a political question. More than a bad mandate or purpose question. I think it's a challenging question. And one of the interesting because one of the things we talked about yesterday in our small groups was this idea that in less developed markets in a funny way the central bank is playing all roles and that as an economy grows more bigger more sophisticated etc that it may be that some of those roles peel off because there end up being other regulators, other government entities and so it could be that an answer to your question it may not be the fed or excuse me or a central bank that needs those tools. It may be that there are other entities in that country's system that ultimately need to be part of playing those playing that role. I think in a country that's in an earlier stage it's easier to imagine them having those kind of tools. Thank you. Just as an add on to this question and this dialogue first of all congratulations to the organizer. This is a really kickass event. One of the things that I think we're doing here is a confluence of a few things and maybe a bit of a semantic things. I think we're using central bank as a very catch-all term. Many central banks around the world not all and not the majority already have supervisory authority but many don't. So a lot of the issues that we're talking about also crosses across that supervisory issue and when you look at financial inclusion whether it's in the course of insurance or other areas we do a lot of work in that area at Toronto Centre we collaborate with CGAP and some of the other organizations. One thing to think about is the risk-based approach to supervision like just because something is being prioritized in a developed jurisdiction and you have all these KYC requirements and everything that are so onerous doesn't mean that when you go into a less developed jurisdiction you have to apply the very same rigor to the smallest of items. In order to bring that proportionality you have to have that risk approach otherwise what you do is you just go with a checklist of all the risks in the world. If all of the risks are your priorities you have no priority in terms of risk management. I think that perspective needs to be brought into this kind of a discussion as well so the core mandate of a central bank is monetary policy correct in many instances they do supervision just to sum up not all central banks are supervisors. I really appreciate that perspective and I completely agree about the need for tiering risk I would say though in the context of my remarks fundamentally what I'm encouraging central bankers to think about is the idea that by having a more holistic approach to putting the actual citizen at the center of their monetary policy and or supervision that the stick of regulation is not always the smartest tool in the toolkit which gives you frankly more opportunities. The example I like to give a lot is around overdraft in the United States right it's a big battle about should it be regulated like credit or is it a service and you know people are paying billions of dollars a year but the fact is if we as a country had succeeded in speeding up our payment system we wouldn't have overdrafts in the first place so central banks and governments need to be thinking about a broader set of tools than just the regulatory stick Thank you for being here. My name is Brian I'm a current student here I appreciated your points about data thinking about data as an asset and the question of who should be able to have control over that but I wonder if you have any thoughts about the other side of the balance sheet about data as a liability I think my thinking here comes from thinking about like Equifax where regulators $125 $147 million people $18 billion off balance sheet liability that's more like the market cap is like $16 billion more than the value of the company that a liability that doesn't show up anywhere so how should the central bank be thinking about that in terms of like the financial health of the economy that's a really great point in 50 years ideally we wouldn't have honeypots like Equifax sitting with stale databases of data and in a fully built out vision of consumer owned and controlling their own data and distributed ledger technology you sort of avoid that problem there aren't liabilities in the system and we don't need to think about that it ends up being I think a very different problem but again this is 50 years I'm dreaming big here thank you so much