 Hi everybody, it's so nice to be back. We took a little break for a lot of reasons, but primarily to give space for the incredible social justice uprising that was emergent at the time. And, and I'm very glad to be back but just wanted to start by saying that I hope that we can all continue to do this work of course that is not over. So, there is just this that needs to be accomplished on so many levels so even though we're back things are not back to normal. So, continue to do what you can a little bit every day helps, no matter who you are so I was just on the website justice for Brianna org which has a lot of ways that you can reach out easily on Twitter emails calls anything so just putting that out there. To the point. I'm so so so thrilled that these two incredible women are here and joining us. This is it she's a and lottery and they are amazing writers. And what we're basically going to talk about today is is writing audio drama. We were all commissioned as a cohort to write audio plays before everyone was talking about writing audio plays when the world shut down because of the pandemic so what a great resource to have these wonderful plays. And I'm so thrilled to have Madri's evil eye and Jesus proof of love that are so beautifully produced and written and amazing so big shout out to audible theater who kind of started to this like resurgence of audio drama. So, I came to know those two plays through them and I'm so thrilled to have you. So, let's just start with a little bit of how you got to where you are and how you got to be who you are. So if mother if you could start and just tell us. Yeah, how did you get to be you own. Oh, that's a lot. I, I am a playwright, I have been working as a playwright. Pretty consistently since 2013. Just let me just go backwards. I graduated from my MFA in playwriting at USC. And I have lived a bunch of places I was born in the Bay Area, we moved to Singapore when I was six and then we moved to India when I was nine. Middle school high school college in India, all of that was very formative informs a lot of the stuff that I write about and lived in LA for six years before moving to Jersey City where I am right now. Yeah, yeah, it's, it, you know, it was one of those things where I always loved writing and I, when I was a kid I used to write a lot of Harry Potter fan fiction and that's how I learned how to write I learned how to write. Yeah, no, I mean, I literally, I was just thinking about this this morning is like I remember like reading voraciously just being mystified as to how stories were created I had no idea and then like, and I was 12 or 13, you know, Harry Potter, the fandom happened and I started writing fan fiction and like my community helped me figure out understands structure and carry a character and storytelling and world building and all of that and, you know, you know, it's it's a big influence on my life that specifically fan fiction and fandom and how you take something and make it your own. Which is coming in very useful right now considering what's happening with the author. Right so, indeed. Yeah, yeah, so, and theater just kind of happened because I loved plays and I just I loved love love plays and when I was in college I joined the dramatic school in India and there weren't that many plays for an ensemble of Indian women and so I started writing them. And I quickly realized that among all the roles that you can play a part in it, and putting up a play. I liked writing the most. So that's kind of what I just continue to do and it took a few big leaps of faith to decide to actually actively study it and pursue it and really really glad that I did and, you know, it took a lot of credit due to them for helping me out and encouraging me so yeah those those are all the things that kind of made me who I am. And now you're here and you have a little baby too. I do have a baby and he's over there and you might hear him so I will mute myself as much as possible. He's around. He's around. Awesome. All right, Jesus, would you tell us some version of that same prompt. So many parallels moderate so many. I also was like a big word nerd growing up. But you know we didn't really have much of an arts program. I was in like the North public schools. I grew up in North New Jersey, Pittsburgh. I never got to see a professional theater production even until I got to high school later on that though but yeah I used to just write. I read all the time, and I would just write short stories because that's what you know that's what you know that's that's what you have access to. And for me theater was like okay yeah it's just like you know whatever a bunch of white dudes and tights spouting the and now and whatever right so and it wasn't until I got a scholarship to go to a private high school. That I was like oh theater as a class Oh what contemporary theater Oh like black playwrights what Lorraine Hansberry, you know, but there were not enough black playwrights damn it. And my theater teacher there was so cool Mr. Pridham I loved him so much he passed a couple years ago which was very sad for me but he, among other things. He exposed us to like all I mean he took us to see early Julie Taymor work. He took us to see cabaret with Alan coming as the emcee which was like oh my God yeah he went at me and I just about dissolved. And then let's see what else he took me specifically to go here August Wilson debate Robert Bruce Dean on the issue of colorblind casting. I, my little mind was just like, what. Because of course I felt myself gravitating toward August Wilson's point of view which was basically like look if you really want to like employee actors of color. How about you tell stories about that you know people of color like how about that like that that just feels logical. I, I, I heard that call. I was like, damn right August Wilson all right I'm going to write some play. And it's so funny because like I didn't know when I was writing those short stories like they were mostly dialogue anyway. And it wasn't until later that I figured out like, oh, this is what you don't have to write the other stuff if you don't want to just write the play. So when I like describe the scenery for you like, I'm just more interested in these people interacting and what they're doing. So yeah, I started writing plays kind of in high school I pursued it earnestly, or as earnestly as I could at Vassar in undergrad. But there was not really a player I mean most of the theater majors there it's a big theater program but like most of the theater majors are actors. And I was the lone playwright in. So I was I took like the one dramatic writing course that they offered at the time which was taught by like an ancient screenwriter who was like oh yeah I guess you can write a play if you want to. And then after that I just did a whole lot of independent study and was sort of like all right I need resources now because I'm going to put up my thesis play and they were like okay cool here take this money and I was like okay great. So that's why I love Vassar, but I didn't really learn much about the craft of playwriting until I went to grad school which was NYU Tish. Yeah, you know. So yeah, I didn't really learn much about the actual act of playwriting until until I studied with the folks there. And yeah, and it's just it's been that's that's where I met I've since been writing plays and getting them produced here and there. Oh, and TV and film stuff. Also, congrats on your new film that seems like that's going so well. And that was actually based on a play that I would go. Thank you. Yeah. Oh that's so great I have so many in parallels as well to all of that but the one I will just bring up shortly. She's like you I was the lone playwright in undergrad I went to Emory basically had to create my own major combining creative writing and southern literature and theater and like I was doing playwriting, which I made some good time sharp at storytelling limited resources that's fine. But anyway, yes, so I think we do what we have to do and we learn as we go or like building a ship as we sail it so to speak so thank you so much for sharing that I mean I let's jump right into audio plays so I know that you didn't start out reading these are I'm assuming you didn't. So when audible reached out to you what was your first kind of thought when they were like, here's our pitch and the way that they pitched it to me was a one or two person play. It really works as listening experience, but I know evil eye has I think for four voices. Yeah, five five voices yeah yeah that's right. So yeah so how how did you react to this idea where you like absolutely not or like I don't know what that is or sure let's do it I was that for you Madri would you start. Um, I was absolutely thrilled to get the commission, it came at a great time, just in terms of like oh I'm this is something I really want to do. And, sorry, baby, but this is part of the audio experience right. So building up the world that I live in. Yeah, I, one of the first things I thought about when I thought, oh here's an opportunity to do an audio for it's interesting that audible told you one or two person plays, they did not tell me that. So, so I didn't do it I wrote a five play with five characters. And I think it was also they were figuring out what they wanted us as we went along so, and I was one of the first persons to like turn in my play as well just because they came to me at the right time and as I guess let's go let's go. Um, I really wanted to write a horror play, and I've been wanting to write that for ages, it was just a genre that I thought why, why can't we do this on stage. Disneyland does it, you know, like haunted houses do it right there is that's hot that's horror theater right in a way but like, how come I haven't really seen a very compelling horror play. And there are there are those out there I just hadn't seen one. It doesn't seem like a very popular genre. And so I thought well audio gives you the great opportunity to do something in this genre, because with film like you know the editor allows you to decide what you're going to see, or the director right the director decides what you're going to see what you're not going to see and that's part of what creates that feeling of dread intention. Whereas in theater you're just kind of, you're there you're seeing everything. And audio and audio play allows you to kind of like, you know, decide what you're going to listen to and what you're not going to listen to what your what information you're going to get what you're not going to get. And that is a great opportunity. The other thing that that theater allows you to do is that you can't write a play that's about jump cuts, and you can't write a play that's just about monsters. It really has to be about what is the thing that you are most terrified of really in life. And so it was like, with the advantage of theater being like it has to be about characters it has to be about really really deep primal truths right, combined with the format of audio was like, Oh, this is a great opportunity. So that was the first thing that I thought of is like I want to write a horror play, but I didn't know anything else. So that's kind of the initial impulse. You know, just to jump in what I love so much about it and why I think it works for horror is because my mind is making it scarier than any production could make it right like listening to it. When you know the voice changes just a little and you're like, I don't know if I trust him anymore. Even like when you know fights and noises of stuff happen, I am building the tension in my mind it just works so perfectly for that I thought it was just really well done and I was not confused in terms of who is speaking and where they everyone felt like a full character to me. Yeah. Yeah, so that's kind of that that was that was initial I was very excited. Yeah, what about you. Yeah, I love that you're like, yeah yeah audio play whatever no big let me make it challenging by like layering in this is John this very difficult and distinct genre. I had never seen a scary movie before that I hate scary movies. I hate them. And so I was like not only did I want to do this but I was doing it in a genre that I didn't even like consuming. I don't know why. It worked. Yeah, for me like hearing okay audio play was like enough of a challenge and I was. But I was excited by it I was like okay yeah I can do this yeah I can yeah yeah I'm going to write this yeah let's do it. So sorry sorry. No we're all good this is the free Internet so. But the baby. Okay, okay. Okay, so. The baby is cursing us all right now it's fine he's doing it in his own language so. Yeah, I was again excited by the challenge and by the vote of confidence that they were thinking that this was something that I could possibly do. So, as someone who actually has trouble processing orally like I can't I have a hard time just listening to some this is why zoom is great for me because I'm like oh I can look at your face I can see your expressions like you know what I mean zoom is okay like phone calls sometimes I will like space out. I've tried to listen to podcasts. Somebody will say something interesting and it'll like send me off on a tangent you know a mental tangent and I'll be thinking about something else and then eight minutes later I'm like oh I should shoot I just missed like eight minutes of the podcast. I really had to think of how I could write something that would work or appeal even to someone like me. Yeah, and that meant no direct address. That meant that I was really going to try to write a play and not just like oh a stand up routine that's been recorded or like a short story that someone is reading very, you know, nicely. So it meant characters. It meant dropping the listener like into a space into a scenario into a situation like that is happening in real time that is unfolding right here and you're just a fly on the wall like getting to sort of experience this needs drop right. And they did tell me one or two characters. So that's what I that's what I went with and I actually prove of love is just one character. I'm writing another one right now that's just to care that that's two characters but yeah proof of love is just the one woman but she is talking to her husband who is comatose. And just, you know, having some revelations and you know about him and about herself. And yeah, and she changes from beginning to end and that I thought was a really important way to to approach, you know, an audio play right is like how are the characters different what changes. And do they get something that they've been wanting, you know, I mean like the basic playwriting stuff, right, playwriting 101 stuff, but you only have, you know, you only have sounds and words to work with and how did that. How did this only having sounds and dialogue. Were there any surprises. I mean, who who tends to be watching this are writers so let's, there'll be some questions that I'll throw to you oh you're getting lots of love online they loved out your plays very much. Interesting because I, I feel like some of the things that I had to check myself right away was so much of what I love about the theater are the unspoken physical moments where someone's I is a touch a, you know, an exit, you know, like, am I looking at you am I not looking at you all of these, you know, non verbal choices of course that's really not not so much an option. So what how did you deal with that. In terms, I mean I thought both of you found incredible ways to justify why this is an audio play, and to keep suspense and surprise and revelation and like the ding of that phone she's every time the method would kind of come up it was like, oh no it's going to you know and, and the phone messages there's that one when when when she didn't pick up. You know a couple times when the main character like it went to voicemail then it's like oh no I'm worried right stakes are rising and that's, you know so how were there things that occurred to you or lessons you've learned or advice you could share about kind of the specific tools you need for audio plays. Sound effects help. It's amazing what you can establish with just a couple of those right. For a hospital room all you need all you needed to hear to know that we were there and to sort of get the listener to paint the picture in there, you know to get the picture in their head was like, Okay, here's a heart the sound of a heart monitor that leads to the background and the ventilator, you know, and even like those moments that you were speaking of of like there's some unspoken thing that's happening right like even like this. I loved our sound guy like even. Even though that obviously her husband is in the coma and he can't speak right, but his ventilator. It was it was subtle right but like she would say something that he might find upsetting, like if he could react and the ventilator would sort of like spaz out for a second or you know what it was just like little things like it's really kind of amazing like the little tricks that you can play to compensate for the fact that you don't have visuals. How would you say what are the things you learned. I mean I think for all of our plays the our audio engineers were amazing design and audio engineering was a whole world that I got to witness my, our audio engineer was Alex Trujano, and he was amazing. He was just like he was, he was, you know, it was me and Megan Sandberg zake in our director and Alex and I feel like we were really a creative pod of figuring out how best to tell the story. You know it was interesting she said what you were saying about like how you personally relate to audio stimulus in your own life. And that was very important for me to in figuring out what I wanted to do so I knew, for instance, that I loved podcasts where people just chat, I loved, I love that. I've never been able to listen to a narrative podcast I know that there are some brilliant ones out there but my mind always wonders. The thing that some for some reason keeps me entertained is when people are just talking. So I was like okay so I know that about myself so what kind of play can I write where that it would it would be something that I would actually listen to. So, and then the idea phone calls also happened and that was very much from my personal life because I moved to the States when I was 21 and my mom and dad live in India and I talked to them every day. So I talked to my mom every single day on the phone. And it's just, it's just a, it's just what I do. And because of that that is the relationship that I have primarily with my mom is over voice right so so like she said like you were saying like it's hard to sometimes tell. It's hard, it's hard to communicate sometimes that way because you don't have your physical cues you don't have context of the environment you don't really know what the other person's doing while they're on the phone. And there's also a very real thing that makes it hard to talk to my mom sometimes you know it's just in. You know it's frustrating sometimes and so like all of that is very real so I felt like okay this is the kind of audio world that I live in so let's just bring all of that into the play. So it was just kind of like you know the, I thought I love listening in on people talking so let's just have like phone calls. We're the nosy neighbors. What's that sorry. We're the nosy neighbors. We are, we are like and it's like. Yeah. Um, and so I feel like, yeah just and so and and once I realized it was phone calls and the audio design of the whole thing also became much simpler but then also it has to be very specific and very carefully done. Yeah, so that's kind of, that's, yeah that's kind of that's kind of where it came from. I feel like if I were better I could have like, oh hi. Mine is not a baby anymore, but yeah so I have a quick question that is of this category so many like evil I was so good I love proof of love etc etc. Um, so this is a question for mattery. I was blown away by the tone of evil I how it evolved over time. As that tone evolved my composer brain couldn't help but notice some of the specific musical score touches that became more pronounced if I'm remembering quickly can you talk about the function of musical score in this piece and how you spotted those moments or maybe you can provide some insight into your collaboration with your composer. Yeah, it was Alex Trujano. And a lot of that work was really done by Alex and Megan our director. There was a lot of back and forth in terms of, is this useful as this distracting is this elevating the pieces. And I remember I think the first time we actually hear music is doing a long extended monologue by the mother where she's talking about something that happened to her a long time ago. So it's you know it's it's that's where we're kind of like okay this is a long thing and hopefully the story is interesting hopefully what she's saying is interesting. But it did feel like it needed a little bit of support production support so that's that was the conversation that we had around that and then once the music was introduced then it, then you kind of have to follow through a little bit. And that was just like really brilliant designing and dramaturging by our team really just figuring out where it's helpful and where it's not and I don't know I feel like some some people might like it some people might not so it's just I think it comes down to a taste thing as well. Because, because everything in this world is very diegetic, right, although you everything you hear as part of the world and then suddenly hear score. But it's also the moment that the story is kind of taking a supernatural turn as well so you know it's kind of it's indicating something. That's how I felt it it kind of lifted me in a in a nostalgic kind of ethereal space which a memory kind of lives in that way so I'm have another question. Maybe cheese you can answer this how did the process of rehearsing or developing your audio play differ much from the process of rehearsing or developing a stage play. Oh, yeah, my process was a little weird, because it was produced as it was produced live like it was produced as a stage play before. I got into the studio to record it. But, oh, man. Well, first of all, I got to work with people who I adore and with whom I have a pretty great shorthand rehearsal process was was pretty smooth like the actress who reads proof of love she. She didn't come in off book but she was pretty darn close, you know, which is a feet. She does not mess about when it when it comes to, you know, doing the work. And so that's, I was very lucky in that respect that like because she had such a strong foundation. As far as just being able to access the words that she and the director and I like we could all work. More deeply right we could like really dig into okay well what's, what's the intention behind this what's the history behind this thing that she's saying. What's that what's that dot dot dot, you know, where where she's trailing off like what is she thinking in that moment kind of kind of stuff so we were able to do some pretty nuanced work in that respect again it just really helps to have a super professional performer who will come in and already prepared. Yeah, it was so interesting because we like you we were on stage first. And so, and again I love the touches and the silent things and all that and the stage play was able to I honestly indulge in those and then when we were in the studio my director GT F church who's incredible. And so I said at a certain point I just had to close my eyes. So I just because I kept wanting to look at the actor and I kept wanting to, you know she loved this part where Kate Mogher did this or that with her, hey, her face or eyebrows or whatever and just having to just kind of close your eyes and make sure the story was as clear that way with your eyes open and it's kind of that simple, you know, and I, I really appreciated, I appreciate that. A gentleman named Fred is asking, what are your opinions about writing stage directions to be read aloud as part of a performance and narrator of sorts is that useful or distracting. I have, I have opinions but I'd like to hear yours first. Do you start us off there. Oh yeah. Again, because again I'm not really into. It's different if you've written a play right for the stage that is then being presented. You know, via zoom or whatever and you know you hear the stage direction sort of almost as a character in itself right. That's different for an actual radio play. I am not I'm a, I'm a, I'm a bit of a purist in that I really I don't like the omniscient narrator vibe like I don't, I don't like. I do think it's distracting and I do think that it, it pulls your listener out of the experience that you're trying to create or at least at least in my case like it's it's different again if you are deliberately using, you know, that as a device or a framework right. But I don't in my work because I'm trying to create that voyeuristic experience right that sort of eavesdropping on this thing that's happening. And I think that if I had a stage director narrating that as it was happening it would not be as effective. Yeah. Yeah I think if you're going to have a narrator they need to be a character right they need to be like the narrator and Jane the Virgin they need to have like a personality and a point of view and you need me you need a reason that they're there. Because this is such a cool opportunity to create something for this medium right you know. Or you can just go Shakespeare and be oh I am stabbed. Absolutely. Great upset. I'm leaving the room angrily right now. There's the bear. Sorry, a bear just showed up guys. Yeah I think that's I think that's really right now I did another audio version to your point she's a play of my natural shocks which is one woman play, and there are a few moments that specifically read the stage directions basically at the beginning of the end. And that was just because I was going to rewrite the play for that medium and in that case that is a play that has been recorded in this way which I think is different than starting out going I'm writing an audio play. And that I would say don't rely. Do the work like part of audio plays how can you convey setting and time and exposition and all these things and action and movement without having somebody committing like he leaves. Let's see. There's another one. Oh, I'm a gentleman named Michael asked in addition to limiting the number of characters did the folks also limit the length. I kind of limited myself to I think my play is probably 70 minutes maybe less wanted they wanted mine to be longer like I mean like or they didn't want it but like it was it was. So I didn't know anything I didn't know that there was an opportunity to also have the play staged. You know I didn't know that was part of the commission. I thought we were just ready. So I was specifically like no this could never be a stage play the whole point. After I wrote it I was like really this could have been a stage play. Well it's not going to be a stage play. It could totally be a stage play. But you know that's not how I thought about it so I didn't want to pursue that. And I also didn't know that it could be like anything like I also didn't know that, you know, the thing is like most people who use audible as a service like downloading very long books and listening to very long books so this didn't have to be a 90 minute play which is what I tend to write. But then. So because of that I had conceived of it as a 90 minute play but it actually, if we wanted to go wild and write an epic then I think they would have been pretty happy with that. Yeah. Yes, I was just doing my normal like no intermission, like 90 minutes straight through kind of a kind of a vibe which is how I tend to write anyway. Maybe for a second we can chat about the actual writing like how you tackled the writing and I think the main points. Cheese you said this earlier. It's a play so like write a really good play. That's, there's no special category. I mean both of you wrote incredible stories that I think could easily live on stage in with different levels of production. And the truth is they were just gorgeous stories where characters changed we have this beginning we have a big middle where something kind of everything is disrupted she's it for you it's that revelation of, of what her husband's been been doing. You know the introduction of the backstory and evil eye and the gentleman that our main character meets. I'd say the mom is the main character actually isn't anyway. But yeah and then this great change and a big moment of kind of decision I mean specifically I love the way the decision that we kind of don't get a full answer to at the end of proof of love like oh my goodness what is she going to do. This is in the air change has happened we've been through a whole journey of revelation and understanding and unpacking feelings and. So is there anything that you. How did you how did you kind of approach this. And maybe how did you decide one character or five characters versus two or three I mean how did you kind of make those playwriting decisions. I actually had like a couple other ideas for plays before and but I ran them by Amelia LePenta and they were like. You know they were like not enthusiastic about them so I was like all right all right screw that screw that then let me try this right. And so when I ran this idea by them, which I came up with because. TMI. My granddad actually got into an accident and a really horrific car accident and was coming to those for a while and then I had to decide if and when to pull the plug, which caused a whole lot of family drama but that's like a whole other thing so that was happening. At the same time, my mother was sort of had just been through the ordeal of discovering that her husband my stepdad had been cheating on her for years. And you know and then and they were going through some stuff and then he actually just as they were maybe looking like they were starting to reconcile he went out for a walk and his heart gave out and he died and they didn't get to have that reconciliation and she was left with questions and really just, you know, just a met you know this mess to this emotional mess to clean up all by herself. And so I kind of conflated the those experiences into the idea for love. And yeah, I was just writing it with the hope with the aim of getting some answers for my mom, which sounds weird, you know, but like I just I wanted to get some closure for her like I wanted to do to really honor her experience and to sort of sit in her. You know, and really try to feel what that must have been like and and and try to think of well what would happen, and what could, what could possibly happen what could possibly be revealed, you know, or, or what could make this okay. Like what could. Yes, what could make this okay what could give her the closure that she needed and I just kept, you know I started with okay here's a woman in a hospital room, talking to her comatose husband I started with that mental image and then I was like all right now as what happens. Right, and I just sort of wrote myself to some semblance of a logical and satisfying conclusion I hope. But it's so interesting because even in that kind of not that the concept is simple but it's a it's a simple premise. And it's you prove so with such captivating skill I mean you're incredible writer and so it just goes so deep and so many ways deep and and even though it's one person in the same scenario for how 60 minutes something like that. And we, I mean all sorts of conversations about self and other and love and the title is so you know you when you realize what that title means. See, I feel like I heard the husband and I feel like I heard this other woman, and you did you found such an interesting way to do that with one voice. I think you have to have a really amazing actor which you certainly did. She is so good. Yeah, and I was trying to layer in because I don't do dysfunctional family dramas just because like so I was really trying to layer in some like socio economic, you know, amazing. I guess social import, you know, some commentary about classism and, and how, and intraracial dynamics because I feel like there's a lot of emphasis on intraracial dynamics and we don't really get to just sort of look within the walls of the black and like figure out what the hell is going on amongst us right like we don't really get to just sit and, and deal with that and confront that in any sort of meaningful way and so I wanted to base for that too. It was amazing I never heard anything like that before so now matter how did you approach your, like maybe like structure like like how are you did you outline the same everyone asks about writing like you did you outline the same did you write first when were you like oh I know and yeah how did you how did you manage that. Yeah, um, first of all, it's so cool like all of our place have so many parallels like we were all of our plays about women, like really cool women, overcoming like crazy things. And, you know, I love that she said you wrote it for your mom because obviously I wrote Evil Eye for my mom I think it's kind of, you know, it's kind of there. It was it was. I always outline that just makes me feel better and outline is usually just this is seen to seem to this happens seen six that happens and this is how it ends. And I didn't know exactly how it was going to end I just knew that the philosophy of the place that the mom's going to be right. So that was just like what I knew was going in it's like mom's going to be right. I'm sure your mother was like, exactly. Yeah, you know, it was like, you know, because I feel like, you know, especially with when you're sitting down and trying to structure something or trying to figure out what the story is, you really need to know the why you really need to know why you're writing it because that's going to be your, your pole star that's going to guide you always when you get lost. So if I knew that the point of the place my mom is right. And just because I hadn't really seen that before. And it was something that I feel could mean a lot to people to have just the older woman be right, you know, we don't often get that in stories. So, yeah, so that so I, it took me a while to figure out what the story was going to be. I, once I landed on the fact that it was going to be phone calls. I then realized that I had an actual transcript of a phone call that I had with my mother when I was in my mid 20s. I had been trying to work on a solo show at the time and like every woman in her 20s is working on a solo show was going to be about my mom. She had called me with the craziest phone call. And after the phone call I just like wrote down whatever she said, and I still had that word document. So I thought that's going to be the first scene. Great. So actually the first scene of the play is an actual phone call that I had with my mother when I was 26. And it was funny. So, so, you know, it was kind of I was trying to, it was, it was like, so it started off in this way where it feels like a family comedy but then it's, it doesn't. I, and, you know, my husband asked me a very good question which is what what is something in Indian culture that is uniquely scary. It's something like for instance a banshee and Irish mythology to have something like that and I was like I'm not really sure if we have like specific monsters but I think the concept of reincarnation is pretty scary if you think about it in a certain way. So, so once that happened it was kind of like okay this is the this is the story this is what happens. I don't know how it's going to unfold, and I don't know how it's going to end but I know that the mom is right so that's kind of how it happened so I had like just a note, a never note note with like this, these are the scenes. But that's so smart, even knowing that I think that's so many people so many writers to get tripped up, because you don't just say, Here's what I know. Yeah, that it's almost like the ending is too open ended you're like well I don't know what's going to happen or just going to figure out. No, the mom's right. Yeah, it's about a scary thing this is the scary thing. And here are the, here are the players, and then I think you need to know. It's like I also think about like what are the politics of my story like what are the things that I am uncompromising on. And then if you know those things then it's it's easier to at least figure out what you don't want to write about. And then you just kind of narrow it down. Yeah. Yeah. I just kind of haven't worked for me. And so let's say here's some more questions. Oh, Cassie and this says totally got the impression that Jesus was writing from a very personal space. There was some fascinating dimensions of classism and perhaps colorism within the black community. I totally agree. And so Tracy's asking once your piece was only audible. Did you ever find knowing who is speaking difficult and were their strategies like using the character names or accents that would just help distinguish voices mine was pretty obvious to ladies and Kate Mulgrew has a very distinctive voice so you definitely know. I know who's talking. So you're of course had one voice but some voices within that in terms of how she was embodying other characters. But yeah do you have any thoughts on kind of how to make sure that the sound. I mean I had no problem distinguishing the characters and yours. I mean I think it's I think it's a very good question to just keep in mind in general and writing audio place that you always, I don't know, no matter what you do you have to write with the audience experience in mind always and so you know I knew I knew that luckily just the characters are two very distinctive accents from the beginning like you have two younger people who are American and two older people who are Indian and then just one more extra character. So the accents will help distinguish the voice the tone the timber. You know I think for sure I think it would be so much harder. It's a really good question because I think it'll be so much harder to write an audio play about two people of the same gender age race social class you know it would be much harder because you will tend to sound similar to each other. So do you want, if that is the play you're going to tell, how are you going to make it accessible and interesting and dynamic to the ear. Is there really a good question. So that's a great opportunity to make sure that you're writing plays about very different people. It's great. diversity. Yay. How did you go about the idea of a character in her kind of the way she is imitating some other voices in her story, how did you, how did you write that how did you, what was, what was that like. This is just. This is me. Okay, so having grown up super super poor. And then, you know, gotten to a place I guess I don't know I guess I would be considered like solidly middle class now. But like my husband for example like he grew up solidly middle class and has climbed up. You know what I mean like so it's, it's, I had to. Whenever I'm around his family and his friends. I'm a little bit I, I listened to like how they talk about people who are like I was, you know, or who grew up where I grew up grew up how I grew up. And it's always interesting how they, they flip that switch and you know, and they could talk like this, you know, whatever, and they say acts and, you know, Oh, I asked her they already and la la la la la right like they can get real hood like real ghetto, you know, and, and the way they do it is, is it's with such. They almost take a kind of joy or pride in the fact that they can like mimic. You know, like the other and I, and I do I feel very much othered in those moments because I'm like, yes, like my cousin, like, you know. Yeah, I mean it just, I wanted to latch on to the delight with which a wealthier person might sort of break out of, you know, the, that sort of prim proper facade, not facade but like that prim proper shell or whatever right and and be and sort of put on a different, a different voice a different. Yeah, try it on like a costume kind of a thing. Yeah, yeah, I will say right now that you can, we're talking about all these things and I hope you have listened to this if you haven't they are available on audible you can go listen and then rewatch this and you'll know exactly what we're talking about. We have like only 12 more minutes left which how delightful is that there's been some really wonderful comments, one about. Is there any way that audio plays can be accessible for the desk community and I have not thought about that, except for making the scripts available, I know mine is going to be published and I think yours is isn't it already to use that. Yeah, I published in a readable form. No, it should be. But I hadn't thought about that before so thank you to Barbie who anyone wants to read it just email me like there we go. Good because I certainly wouldn't want them to miss on the the wonderful horror intimate hard. There were actually a few comments in the, in the audience review section, asking for the script. I think that could be really great. Like I think it will be fun to follow along with the play while you while you read it to whether or not you you needed accessibility wise it could be really fun. Yeah, I think that's that's a great point to and then Mary Lee who I know hi Mary Lee love you. She asked did any of you collaborate with blind or visually impaired artists who live in the listening space day to day, moment to moment which I thought that is an amazing idea to have to bring in those incredible artists as consultants, because I'm sure they will know lots of things that I certainly don't. I love that idea so much, and I definitely going to pursue that for my next audio play so thank you that's really really great. I will connect y'all because and Amelia Amelia you're going to get an email about that because yeah that's so brilliant and and certainly something that is, I thought so that's great let's see other questions that you have. There's a great okay let's see does audible give a sense of how many audience audience how many people are accessing it. And I just know the like number of reviews, which there are lots, which is lovely. I mean okay so maybe that's an interesting question. In terms of work that when we work in the normal theater space, you have a run that lasts a month or so, and you have some numbers of hundreds or thousands of people that perhaps get to see it which is incredible. This is like crazy for me to see like how many people all over the world. What does that feel like for you. It is bizarre, but really cool. And it's a play, like that's what like does my heart good because I'm, as you say right like play like live, you know when it's up and maybe 1000 people, you know, come see your 99 seat theater you know I don't know right. But when, when you can reach so many people with a play. Oh, yeah, like my heart, my heart. And you know I was talking to Kate Nathan who reviews and I'm like 9,000 people have heard my play like that's insane. I don't know. I think I don't know we have to check on the, it's also weird to have something that's up that people are constantly giving stars to it's like, you do that once in the theater for reviews and you're like, Oh God why am I doing this constant like all the time. But I love it very much and it's interesting I was talking to Kate and even who runs the program and she was saying that a lot of the people listening are from places that don't have that they can't access the theater, you know they have maybe have a community theater but they don't have a lot of theaters they don't have a major Lord theater they don't have Broadway touring. So in some ways this is allowing folks who don't have access to theater to have some really good theater, you know, which I think is amazing what was that like free memory. It's awesome I mean I, I think I was feeling the pressure as I was writing it because I knew that display would have the largest audience that any of my plays would ever get just due to the nature of the medium. And so, because of that I'm really glad that the play turned out well and that it's something I am actually proud of and stand behind because that always doesn't happen. You know, so, yeah, I'm really, it's, it's very gratifying to read like the audience comments. It's really great that I don't have to worry about being reviewed by a critic. It's just, you know, it's just kind of what people are genuinely feeling which is a really wonderful way to get feedback. Yeah, it's great. I don't think God will like gives us numbers or anything because it's, it's tricky like I think sometimes the plays are free in which case you don't know sometimes you have to pay for them and some then you might be able to see right now like royalties or something but oh yeah, the model keeps changing so it's, I'm just glad people are able to. It's, you know, so so I feel like we all experienced this so many times our friends or our family will be like, can you send us a video of your play you know which is which is a very genuine question but unfortunately we can't like a place so ephemeral. You have to be in that city you have to be in that space you have to be there at that time to experience it. However, now we have something that we can actually just send to our friends and family and be like here I wrote this this is for you you can experience it in the way it's meant to be experienced. Yeah, so it's really cool. It was just it is it's so nice and different for us and you can read a script but that is, you know a script is in the play. So and I will say now because there's a couple of questions about submissions to audible or two other people. I mean the truth is the first day of the first week of the shutdown. I just went in my basement and recorded my one one woman flakes I was like well I am one woman, and I have one woman play, I will just, I guess record it and found my friend works in works in the audio space and found a great designer and editor and technician to help me put it up and add some wind and all that great stuff and I thought it was really great so all this is to say you can do it right now you don't necessarily need audible as fabulous as they are. So I think now is a great time to experiment with this, since we can't make theaters normal but also audible has the emerging playwrights to call it the emerging playwrights fund, and you can apply anyone. And I put I'll put the link in the bio you can also just search the emerging playwrights fund and audible and submit. And I had an amazing time working throughout the whole process. But maybe we can talk for a second because there's a question about kind of the idea and if audible had a lot of say and you know what we were writing about or how we were writing it. And my experience was they asked to commission and then I presented a few ideas. And the one I think I was the most gushy about which was like, okay this happened and you knew this about history did you know that mercury did this and oh my God this and then this and they were like okay you should definitely write that one. But also you know my one of my things is like science history ladies and this is like solidly in the science history lady tracks so. Anyway, so how did how did your, what was your pitch to audible or how did you kind of, I don't know get them to be like, right that she's you mentioned a little bit about that that you were like, these ideas and other ideas that they were clearly just sort of like, oh yeah okay that'll be interesting to see what you do with that. Never want to hear interesting interesting is always bad. Okay read the room read the room. Okay. And so, when I came back and with this idea and again like you were saying Lauren like it's, they can tell I think when you've got some kind of when you've got like a real deep personal investment material that you're talking about and so I said to them okay you know like it's about this woman and I'm like on the surface it's about this wealthy black woman who has just discovered that her husband having a affair with, you know, this woman this other woman and you know he's comatose and she has to decide whether to pull the plug. Okay, on the surface it's about that but really it's about right class relations with the black community and whatever. I mean it's such a great pitch just like even you don't even have to qualify like on the surface. It's such that's such a great. Bad in and of itself. Yeah, yeah. It's a little bit like you know okay these are small intimate problems that like, like on the one hand okay yeah universal right which was kind of the point for me it was like okay I need to take this an experience that like maybe a lot of people can relate to. And then just sort of sneak in, you know, fold in some commentary about about race and class and stuff right so. And that's the way I pitched it to them and it wasn't just about like okay what happens in the play it was like what is the play about. You know, like at at its core, what your play is really about or if there's some like deep kernel some some core thing right some beating heart inside of whatever it is that's happening in the play. I think that that's probably what's going to make them go oh okay we're intrigued we're listening and go on. Totally. How would you answer that mattering did you have a. I didn't pitch at all. I don't think I don't think so I don't remember I might could go back into my emails I think I just wrote the play. And then I sent and then I sent it to them before the contract was done. This never happens I procrastinate like crazy but I had a I had a deadline anyway for for the new play program that I was in so I was like let's use this deadline to write the play for us. Yeah, so I just I just wrote it and then I and then they send them and then after that they were like, we're thinking of one to two person plays and like nope that's not it's not what I sent you. So, we were so great. I had we had the most wonderful new play development process it was very traditional like in terms of the traditional new play development thing you know there was a great workshop and reading and Emilia was one of my primary projects and she was incredible and I got to work with the same director through Megan so it was it was a fabulous experience they never once put any sort of constraints on what we what I wanted to write about. Yeah, I think that's great it was only like advice that I got about here's a few things that we've learned. Yeah, yeah, by doing this. And yeah, I felt very loved and supported even like when I went all theater and stuff like there's a monologue I set underwater and they were like cool. You know, which is great. All right, you know we can you can really kind of take do some sweepingly theatrical stuff like it doesn't need to be kitchen sink every time you can be poetic. I think let's let's use this time to prove how like the diversity of stories and aesthetics that can live on. Can I ask you a question Lauren really fast about your play before we wrap up. So you have a moment that's very strikingly visual in your play. So can you talk about like your thought process and converting that into an audio, an oral moment. Well, there was one. Yes, so the plays about Marie Curie and another scientist who is her friends her to Ayrton and Marie is one of the kind of three lines is that she is obsessing almost like you do about a lover about radium and the radioactivity that she is responsible for the science of bringing about that into the world and so there's a moment when she is and this is true she kept a vial of radium around her all the time. Less less of a good idea and retrospect but and so there's one scene that she kind of holds it and it's nighttime by herself she's not supposed to have it but she's holding it and it's glowing and it's really beautiful and it's a gorgeous stage moment and basically I was like I want that moment. I know it can't live in an audio play so the live production has that moment and the audio play just kind of takes a bit of a breath like there's a little bit of space in the in the recording and it kind of goes back but you don't. And do we give her a monologue about holding it and the light and the blur do we have a narrator coming in be like she holds it closely. We have the other character be like, I see you holding that radium suddenly becomes a character and it's like a girl. All of the versions were pretty terrible so I just kind of was like well maybe this is me just going that's a theater and this is an audio and we'll just let them be different which I think is fine too. And I was again the great gift of being able to do it on stage as well as. I will just since we're we're done. Oh man I could talk to you forever thank you. One more time for doing this I would love. I know some of your stuff is accessible right now in this digital world. Would you tell us if there's anything that how folks can find your work besides buying script and reading them. I know. Your show is still is still being streamed right now the one in. I don't think so there was no and take me was last week on. Yeah, it was and we had a, I've had like there was a play production of House of Joy that shut down and they released the dress rehearsal video which was beautiful. In Love and Warcraft was supposed to be done by the ACT acting students and Peter Crowell just transformed it into a zoom production which was so great. It was so good. It was phenomenal it was like it gave one of the few things that gave me a lot of hope about us as a species was seeing that zoom production. And then we had a wonderful zoom reading slash kind of reprisal of another play of mine that got shut down and take me presented by the girls of St. Catherine's which went up at sacred fools in LA. All really wonderful stuff. Nothing really streaming right now. You can find for your audio show. Except for evil I listen to you like it's it's available anytime anywhere for your ears and all and my plays are either available on Samuel French or they're available on new play exchange.org so you can find them there. Oh great yes another new play exchange. What's how can we find your work to them. If you just go to my website. I try to keep it updated although lately I've been like everything is extended indefinitely I don't know when productions are going to happen again when the world will start spinning again so but I have been posting like the subject the film that got made at dish that is the festival rounds right now and I know a lot of those are going digital. Oh great point to we've done a couple to festivals we so far we have at least seven more and I know that a few of those are going to be digital. So I will be posting those dates as soon as I have them on my website on the website. Awesome y'all. This was so great thank you so so so much. Thanks to audible for encouraging this and giving us a reason to write some audio plays. Thank you learn for giving us an excuse to hang out. Oh yeah we should do this with like everything. Yeah we should do this again. All right thank you so much and thanks everybody for watching I'll go back to the comments like I usually do and answer stuff if that's helpful and forward. You to other people who are smarter than I am if I don't know what I'm talking about. Thanks so much everybody thank you Jesus thank you.