 Hello, welcome to our discussion. So the only reason we would want to use the mics is for recording on the internet and doing a simulcast and then having this be accessible to future generations who are curious what we talked about. So if we want that to happen, then we can pass the mics around. That is also true. So welcome everyone. I'm Anna. I'm Chinmay. And this is Anambilal. Okay. So we are a part of this group called Anansi. We are a diversified group of makers from around the world. She's from San Francisco. I'm from India and I don't know where he is from because he keeps traveling all around. So we put together, we are working in different parts of the world with makers around the world and we thought it would be interesting to come here and talk about how makers around the world work and how we could collaborate with one another, do some interesting stuff and that's where we propose the Sutra of innovation spaces where the Sutra is a thread in Hindi or Sanskrit, which means binding all of us together. And that's what we hope to achieve through this session. We'll talk a little bit about our work and I will talk a little bit of our work. Then we'll talk. So then we'll talk about each other's cultural perspectives in terms of maker spaces. So I know that people in other countries or other parts of the world have different perspective of maker hacker initiatives. So we'll do a short discussion about that. Then we'll talk about how what would all of us need and how we could collaborate. This is what we planned. Is it good with all of you? Cool. One slight recommendation just because we're so few, just to help us with our planning and making space for people, just understanding where people come from, maybe they run a space, why they're interested in coming and joining this. And we can just do a really quick one minute each past the mic around the We'll do that when we're talking about cultures perspectives. So I'll begin. Hello. I grew up in San Francisco and thereabouts got involved with the Fab Lab community when I was an undergraduate at MIT. Fab Labs. A lot of people like to call themselves Fab Labs, but the official definition, and this is not really enforced at all, is a space that's part of the International Fab Lab Network, which was conceptualized by a professor named Neil Gershenfeld at MIT, whose lab is trying to build the Star Trek replicator. And about 12 years ago, they got a research grant from the National Science Foundation, which is US government money. And part of this grant was public outreach. And so they thought, how will we take our nano scale molecular fabrication research and bring that to the public? What they decided was to create a sort of public library that's filled with all of the equipment that one would need to, quote, make pretty much anything. So they created this in a community technology space in a poorer part of Boston and then soon after created one in India, one in Ghana, a couple other ones around the world. And then this idea exploded and created its own network that was somewhat separate from the track of the Hacker Spaces movement. And so if you'd like to be a Fab Lab, go to, or you'd like to see Fab Labs in your community, who may or may not be connected to the rest of the hacker community. You can go to fablabs.io and see the map of them. So I work with the Fab Lab community and also working with Autodesk and Instructables, looking at what the global impact of this, quote, maker movement could be. So that is my interest in the space. I studied physics as an undergraduate and then fell into all of this kind of sideways. And look forward to hearing. I'll speak a little bit of finance here. I think we should talk about the work that is brought as innovation spaces and maker spaces. I'm sorry, I'm moderating a little bit, sure. So because we want to, I'd like to define the spaces, because people are familiar with Hacker Spaces, but not so much with the rest of the spaces that are existing. So I think that would make more sense to talk about. Sure, so just quickly and then we'll go around and everyone introduces themselves. One of the projects that I've been working on, can kind of see it here, is a global map of innovation spaces. Does, defined innovation spaces as community based workshops that are, that have a focus on technology that are not necessarily open to the public, but are open to collaborating with other initiatives. And so these could include things like university incubators, which are closed to everyone except university students and people who get accepted. But if you approach them with an excellent project, they might want to get involved with you and what you're doing. Or things like appropriate technology spaces started in the 70s and 80s in London, West Africa, India, a couple other countries and regions where the idea was to create a bunch, bring a bunch of tools into the informal sector. So people by the side of the road who are hacking together vehicles or agricultural implements and provide a space for them to come in and innovate and also train people in new technologies like how to make beehives and promote beekeeping in places where people like honey, but tend to just burn down the bee, the beehive when they see it and try and collect whatever's left. But instead you can teach domestication of bees. This was an initiative in an appropriate technology space in Ghana, which is still running today with a minimal amount of government funding and they have no idea about the global hacker community. I've been in touch with them a little bit. They might be interested in collaborations, but there are a lot of spaces like this that were started a while ago that could kind of be maker spaces or hacker spaces, but aren't at all connected to the global movement. So what we were doing is we made maps of all of the spaces. So I mapped out the African continent, more focus on sub-Saharan Africa with some help from a friend of ours, Juliette Wanuri, who couldn't make it because she's in Nairobi. And then with Chinmai and our friend Paul Anand, we mapped out India and you can see all of this on our website annansigroup.com. We also have lists of the spaces. We can even pass this around. We're going to pass it around. So we defined innovation spaces, technology-oriented, have some interest in community building, and are open to collaborations in some way. So pretty broad definition. Sure, we're missing a whole bunch of them, but the nice thing is this allows us to what one thing we're interested in doing is drawing APIs from things like hackerspaces.org, the fablab network. If you're familiar with the tech hubs, like Impact Hub, which is a community, like a collaborative co-working space that also teaches some programming and computer skills and things. So that's one of the things we're working on. And then also potentially creating a wiki or repository of information to help out with connecting all of these different movements that are all in the same vein with similar philosophies. Would you like to add anything? No, actually. So that's what we're working on. And right now I think we'll make a short introduction about spaces and how we work with spaces and what are our concepts of spaces. Actually, I'll begin with the Indian spaces and how they work with and how they make a moment for the hacker movement in these spaces and how their perception of spaces are. I'm Chinmay. I work with Indian spaces based out of Bangalore and work with a lot of open groups in Bangalore and otherwise as well around the country. So hacker spaces and make spaces are fairly new concepts for us. Though we have had collaborative community spaces from a long time, we've had artisan spaces, we have had rural innovation spaces, we have had spaces where these people come together as a community and work towards something or building something or building an economy out of it. But as defined as hacker spaces or political, sorry, activist spaces or even maker spaces are fairly new. When the best defines maker spaces or hacker spaces, it just comes down to a set of machines or it comes down to building an open community around it. So it's fairly different for us because we are new to the concept of getting people in the urban areas at least to come and democratically talk or speak to one another, work with one another. So it's always been like someone does things and then someone, the rest follow. That's how it went. So this is something that is happening with the Indian spaces. So when you're speaking of Indian spaces and when you're looking at hackers, sorry, what's it about? No, hackerspaces.org. And when you look at the hacker spaces that are out there and when you go there and see in the Indian spaces what hacker spaces are, they're probably co-working spaces in the end or spaces which are doing technology but not necessarily getting people together and working like a hacker space or like a democratic setup. So that's how our perspectives have been until now and that's how we culturally have defined it. But there are two different things, rural spaces and urban spaces. In the rural spaces, there's more community but they have no idea about the structures. They have no idea about the movement. They have no idea about the accessibility or so they have no idea of the tools or even the names. So we've had some history with that angle and this angle as well. So that's how it's been in India. No, not right now. We're gonna do introductions, sir. Ah, yeah, cool. So my name is Bilal and yeah, I hear you a lot on how people may have these ideas about what this word means and how some people are already setting up these community spaces without calling them by a certain word. And I'm really happy to see this map sort of help people recognize each other for what we are and maybe even understand the core principles that unite those urban spaces and those spaces in the suburban and the rural places. And we're having these people from bossa.com who also have a very different perspective on these types of community spaces. And I think I'll like my introduction to be very simple and it's going to be kind of silly, but if you could just take a look to your right or left and introduce yourself to the person that you're next to. So I'm gonna look to my left. Hello, my name is Bilal. You can ask where they're from and what I'd like you guys to ask, well, excuse me, I let things get out of control really fast. All right, one second. Yeah, hello. What I would like really briefly, wow, look at this go. This is great. What I would like you guys to do with this conversation, if possible, is really briefly, if you can, ask them what they dream of. Right, well, something that they want to do, something that they have in their minds that they wish they could be creating or they wish they could be doing in their future. And then see how you feel about it. And that's it. And then I'll pass on the mic. So... Also, there's broken glass right here, so don't sit on the ground, please. Or if you want to sit on the ground, sit on the ground on that side. Broken glass over there somewhere. Yeah, there's broken glass that broke over there. Okay, so. So just really briefly, really quickly, introduce and try to concisely share something that you wish for in the future. And then for me, what I really love seeing is that these spaces take that energy that we just unlocked and turns them into systems and structures and tools and sharing to help us help each other. And so with that, that's basically what I've been doing both in Michigan and in the Middle East. But yes, dream and I'll pass on my mic. So. So we could start with you and then do like this. That was me. Okay, so I'm Willow. I founded a space in Seattle called Jigsaw Renaissance. It recently closed, so that's, yeah. But I've been a part of Hacker and Maker Spaces all over the world for, I don't know, seven years or so. And the thing that I dream of is that we are able to establish these spaces while maintaining our political advocacy, we'll call it that. While also welcoming new people in. And I think that's a really interesting tension that is worth building futures on. Hi, my name is Helga. I'm on the board of a Hacker Space here in Germany and work for Make Magazine. And what I dream about or what I really want to achieve is to make hacking or making really accessible, not like accessible for those people who already have a lot of time and have a lot of money and who want to go to a Hacker Space, but also those people who right now have good ideas but are like, ooh, I don't fit in a Hacker Space. Maker Space, whatever. Hi, my name is Odey. I am from Iraq, from Basra. I have a Hacker Space called Science Camp. We established it before one year. We have two caravans with two CNC three-axis and four-axis on some tools. We have seven members in our Hacker Space with several other members. We are seven co-members with the owner and member, Dr. Norris. I am pharmacist, but I am leaving the pharmacy, leaving the pharmacy as work, not as science. So, not as science. We like two things, the fund. It's our and from our own. And the legality we look for from our government or any foundations found in work which can prevent any disrupt or misunderstanding of our work. Thank you. Hi, all. I am Dr. Norris from Iraq, the founder of Science Camp, Maker Space. As my friend Odey said, we are running this Maker Space over a year. We are seven co-founders and more than 14 or 15 members. We try to make change in our community throughout the science and making. And there are some challenges in our work which is the legal situation, especially in we have several devices maybe used with become clear with and we work with the Ministry of Science and Technology to insert the term Maker Space or Hacker Space in the law of technological incubators. So, that's it. I'm Ben. Sorry, Ben. I'm one of the founding members of Counterculture Labs, a biohacking space in Oakland, California. And initially I was only interested in this space because of a specific project I was working on with them, which we started before we actually had the space. But I've worked in academia and in industry and actually more than any other space I've been in, I see the potential for this space to allow us to do projects that would not fly in academia or get funding in industry and that we can do some of these things which I think are valuable, but we just can't do anywhere else. That and there's a lot of potential for people who want to learn biology, but for one reason or another, going to grad school is not the right path for them. I think the space actually could be a very valuable alternative education pathway. Hi. I'm Christoph Leib, founder of Vios. That's the Virtual Institute for Open System. And we are building communities, incubators. I'm co-founder of FabLab Zurich and Adilier in Zonkasten. That's the same thing in Zonkallen, also with the FabLab part. And in fact, I'm a silo breaker for collaboration, convinced that the real fun stuff is always happening on the borders of organizations above the silos. So I really appreciate this initiative to build up something like each silo because that's the danger of makerspaces that they're getting introverted, that they should have an ambassador reaching out for other organizations, enabling the physical and the virtual collaboration to democratize intellectual property and knowledge to collaborate in interdisciplinary projects. Hello, everyone. I'm Amber. I work for Christoph. So here to give you an introduction. My wish would be we're actually now just currently building a space for IoT communities. And we're working together with the Impact Hub in Zurich. And it seems that they're a bit risk-averse and that they've got some inhibition to kind of build up even more spaces because they've been already expanding in Zurich. And so my wish would be just for them to have more, to dare more, to say, okay, let's just try, let's just be agile about it and see if it works or not and just kind of have more courage, I would say. Yeah. Okay, so hello, everyone. My name is Paul Moschene. I'm from Nairobi, Kenya. And I work at a space known as the I Hub, which is an innovation hub. So basically the I Hub was set up five years ago and it's a place that attracts geeks, bloggers. It attracts also university graduates who have an interest mainly in tech. But for historically, it has been involved more in ICT, that version of tech. It's like before, for some time, it has mainly concentrated on software and mobile tech, that type of tech. But it's just recently it has gone into other areas such as there is actually a space that deals with hardware hacking. And there are also the initiatives that are working on making products on wireless technologies. So apart from that, is there anything else you'd like to know? Okay, thank you. Okay, so. Thank you. Hi, I'm Oliver. I love interdisciplinary. I work with Christoph and Amber. So you know a lot already. And I also frequent FabLab in Zurich. I also helped to set that up. And the FabLab has grown to about 400 members in about two and a half years and is facing a couple of challenges. And I believe as I can hear many other maker and hacker spaces are facing the same or similar challenges. And I believe that networking is very important to learn from each other to solve those, help solve those. Yeah, hi. I'm Thomas, also from Zurich. I'm a member of the FabLab too, but otherwise I organized the Internet of Things meetup group there. And the 3D printing meetup group. And it's a good way to informally gather people that are not in touch with the movement yet. Hi, my name is Geraldine and I manage a community of different kinds of spaces across the world. I started working with some different spaces in Africa like the IHUB and a network called AfriLabs a couple of years ago. And I also helped run a conference here in Germany called Republica and thought I tried to connect the two. And out of that the idea was born to create this community of spaces that include hacker spaces and maker spaces and so-called innovation hubs as well as more commercial spaces as well. Like startup incubators and sort of trying to find commonality between different people and spaces that are trying to build local communities, local solutions, even though they might come from different corners of the Internet but yet might have some shared philosophy as well. And we've been doing that for a couple of years now. And part of our sort of activities, what we do is that we believe in convening physically and coming together and trying to create meetings like these, so we have like 10 people here at camp together and have a bigger annual meeting at Republica each year with about 50 representatives from different spaces but also in other corners of the world. And so we do a lot of virtual collaboration and knowledge exchange but try to create possibilities where people come together, connect with other people and share. And yeah, so I'm really excited about this and I think it's really great work, what you're doing and sort of compliments each other on such an awesome level because you find these spaces and then we try to bring them together and do something cool with that. And I hope that that's just gonna keep expanding, that's my wish. Hi everyone, my name is Njeri, I'm from Kenya. For the past two years I've been running programming school in Nairobi that has had an evolution of names, now it's called the Dev School. But I'm not doing that anymore, I'm moving on to do schools. So I've ran classes in different spaces in Nairobi and Juba, South Sudan, and I've been having conversations with people about setting up innovation space in Juba. There's a really cool guy in Berlin called Steven Kovats, if I'm pronouncing that right. We've had lots of conversation and not much action because none of us is based in Juba but we're trying to see if that makes sense. I'm just really interested in being part of this conversation, I've been part of several spaces but not as someone managing it but as someone who does stuff then runs a bunch of user groups and yeah, I just want to hear your thoughts around the whole concept. And Bilal, I dream of chocolate, ice cream and happiness. Hi, I'm Dinez, I'm from Budapest, Hungary, country between Ukraine and Austria. So it's right in the center of Europe between West and East and we have a hacker space since five years and what we are trying to create is, for example, such kits for electronics that could be used as an infrastructure, so you could say it's a meta kit and it can be used for loco spaces and one example is for example of soldering station controller which can be powered from notebook power supplies which can be combined every part of the world for really cheap if not free and what I wish is that every space could access the infrastructure so that people can start hacking because usually knowledge is easy to transmit over the world but physical infrastructure is harder to get by especially if you're on a low budget and I think it's the parts with low budget that needs more infrastructure so that their potential can be used for good things. Hello. Well, hello, I'm Johannes. Okay, I was managing one hacker space but now I'm involved with several. I usually try to knit together the hacker spaces with the community they physically find themselves in because they tend to isolate themselves from it. What I dream about, I dream about preventing people from shooting themselves in the foot and the head at the same time with technology. Hi, my name is Aimee. I just went to a gender inclusion workshop so my preferred pronoun is she and her but I am generally interested in language so I think that there are some projects out there that really need international collaboration and my dream would be that this kind of meeting space with a lot of different people from all over the world could be like a network to work and support some projects that require that. Hello, I'm Claudio. I have nothing to do exactly with hacker space or fab lab. I realize it restening at you. I'm working in technology and I was just curious about this phenomenon, this kind of organization I was developing. My field of interest normally are freedom of speech online, protection between sources and journalists or understanding the dynamic of the tracking phenomena of the online user so I'm just here to learn. Hi, I'm Ankises. I'm from Garoua Hacker Space. It's the very first hacker space in Sao Paulo. We have been running for about four years and now we have about 15 hacker spaces across the country in Brazil and I'm glad I have been seeing the hacker space movement growing up in Brazil and I hope to see also around the world as well so I'm here just to hear experience for everyone and share experience as well. Hi, everyone. My name is Roy from Nairobi, Kenya. Formerly affiliated to the fab lab in Nairobi, currently building 3D printers as a business, building the 3D printers from Electronic Quest, still connected with the maker space scene, trying to leverage appropriate technology and trying to solve problems with that directly in their communities that are affected. Another thing that I do and I'm hoping to get inside from this whole event is trying to set up maker spaces in schools but the challenge being that they need to be low budget so trying to set them up in secondary schools, trying to tap into children's creativity, get them making things from an early age and solving problems as well but the challenge is to make it as affordable as possible so if you wanna talk about that, I'm happy to have that conversation. Hi, I'm Mal. I work at the Technical University in Berlin as a lecturer and researcher and I'm also working as an IT consultant in international aid projects and in both areas I quite often feel like technology is more intimidating or creating dependence instead of actually empowering people or giving people the opportunity to create something new, to actually understand the systems they're working with and I feel like maker spaces are one way where this is reversed or where something different happens and these are probably also the two areas I'm most interested in to see more research, do more research and I think, especially in the international or different maker spaces all over the world to look at what different concepts exist and is this empowering, is this inclusive, is this something where people actually are confronted with technology and not just using it and still depending on other people and services. Hey, I'm Alex from Berlin. I've been on the board of a couple different hacker spaces in Ann Arbor and San Francisco and involved in a few others that are like workshops and non-profit and for-profit tech shops and other open and non-open spaces and I'm really interested in how these interface with each other and how a space can provide for itself and also help its members provide for themselves in a way that is not gross, i.e. like finding a way to be sustainable with work that is creative and exciting and teaches you stuff and is also promoting sustainability in your community. And so I think some of these problems need to be... I'm always an advocate of keeping things as open and accessible and non-commercial is possible and it's lately become really interesting to see how commercial and non-commercial or like partially commercial things blend together as well as like a lot of people are building tech solutions to problems that maybe could be resolved with things that aren't so techy and are more easy for everyone to build. So being immersed in that world kind of makes you very narrowly focused and I'm trying to broaden my view and see how we can all work together. My dream is a public transit infrastructure so you should be able to go to work on a glider instead of a car, it would be awesome. Thank you all. So who did everyone get a chance to share themselves in their dreams? No, all right, they're the observers I think. So we're really thrilled to gather everyone here together to talk about how we can collaborate better and make all of these dreams come true. One of the... Before we launch into that which is going to be more of an action-oriented let's come up with specific things and then possibly volunteer to do them discussion. I think we wanted to talk a little about the culture because one of the things that we hear a lot about hacker culture or the maker movement and particular maker fairs and related things with that we see a lot of particularly North America and Western Europe and everything related to that. And so I've got a great story from some MIT engineers decided to build an excellent composting toilet for rural India and these were folks who'd grown up in the States and they designed this brilliant composting toilet and went to I think it was the Northeast or rural village. They installed a couple of these toilets. Everyone was happy. They came back a couple months later and found that no one had used the toilets and they were instead filled with sacks of grain and they asked the villagers, what's going on with this? We thought we gave you toilets and they said, yeah, we already have toilets. We just go and those latrines over there but we haven't had any great bug and watertight boxes to store our grain. So they were happy to get that. The engineers weren't particularly thrilled but I think this is the kind of thing that happens a lot when you have more altruistic minded folks from countries that have a lot more infrastructure trying to design things for cultural contacts that they're not particularly familiar with. And so I know of a lot of folks in the hacker and fab lab maker movements who want to be designing things and helping save the world in some way but maybe aren't sure how to get involved. So I guess if you have anything, does anyone have anything to add to that or to the question of what kind of culture, what kind of culture would we like to see more of and how is your culture different from other parts of the hacker movement worldwide? I have a very recent thought about this because when I was much younger, I traveled the world and I saw these people building dinosaur synthesizers and I was like, oh my God, this is like a plastic dinosaur synthesizer. This is so cool. This is so awesome, right? And then I grew up and then I thought, oh man, creativity and being able to have an impact to their creativity is a really lovely idea. And the country that I grew up in, America doesn't really have very many problems. What would happen if the maker movement moved over to where my family is from and in Iraq? And then I started thinking and talking and communicating with people in Baghdad to set up this maker space in Baghdad, hacker space called Fikr space. And then what we would do is we would dodge car bombs and go to our workshops and build segues. And then I started judging even these things and being like, how are these things related to solving the problems in our world? And like, why don't we all start using our tools to think about the problems and we must do this. And I got into this very reactionary state where I'm like, the world sucks, everything is horrible. Look at it, look at it. Steep yourselves in the like the monkey mire and like bleed out goodness, you know, force yourself to bleed goodness to counteract the awful. And that's no good. And so very recently I started counteracting even that, realizing that everything is action and then the reaction and hopefully coming more closer to the middle now. And of course my ideas will change but thinking about, you know, don't go save the world, save yourself. What do you really enjoy doing? Maybe that's, there's a reason why I'm born into an Iraqi family in the States with these connections to two worlds. And I can use this to be, to highlight the joy of those things and the loveliness and not be so much about I must grit my teeth and do and martyr myself for some beautiful thing. And I think rather than having one Gandhi that nearly starves himself to death and unifies and does all these beautiful things, I think everyone can be like a tiny light instead of having a bunch of spotlights out in the world. If everyone was a tiny light following their joy and their bliss and the things that felt really natural and comfortable and took a lot of self care and realized that, you know, when they're out in Juba or when they're out in their countries and they're like, wait a second, you know what, I'm tired and I wanna take a break and I wanna go to camp and I don't wanna go to a talk about how to save the world, I wanna go to the lake. I'm actually going to the lake. Anyhoo, this is slightly like a little bit of a response and I'm sure I'll come even more to the middle later, but I know that I've been, technology will save the world, must relax, technology will save the world, stop fighting so much, let's play and make synthesizers, no. But yeah, hopefully this sort of swinging will settle into somewhere in the middle where we don't try to squeeze our heads out to figure out what the good thing to do is and we really feel and intuit what we would like to do with our time. And that's one difference that I'm coming across. I think you mentioned something really important and this goes into the indirection of life purpose because we see a lot of people coming up with ideas, with brilliant ideas and they want to make this product or project a reality that's a synthesizer dinosaur and everything and we started to ask them the question, okay, fine, we love your dinosaur and we'll help you with your dinosaur to make it happen and so on, but how do you see yourself within five years, within 10 years? What is your intention? Your intention is not to build a synthesizer dinosaur, so what do you really want to change? And if you ask yourself this question, you realize that you won't succeed just for yourself, just in collaboration with other people seeing also the sense in this project or product to come real because it fits into their life and it fits into their big plan and this just doesn't happen within silos, so you really need to fly above and collaborate with other people sharing the same ideas. One of the things that I figured out while we were doing the Space Federation, which was, so everybody knows about hackerspaces.org, which is where a bunch of these spaces are listed and it tends to be the more like spaces which are comfortable being political, which also means that the list can be dramatic sometimes, but for a while I worked on a thing called the Space Federation, which is about linking together hacker maker and co-working spaces specifically in the US so that we could share 501C3 status, the like non-profit status in the same way that we share a milling machine. I used to joke that I was fine getting my hands into a motorcycle engine but I was terrified of paper cuts, right? And so one of the things that we figured out was that the plurality of these spaces is a part of the strength and trying to say that they're all the same thing is actually kind of problematic because they're not at all, but recognizing that and supporting them for what they are and seeing what some spaces can do and others can't is rat. That's the main lesson that I've walked away with. Yeah, or if someone else wants to share. No, okay, that's more of an action. I'll pass the mic around. Tell me one thing that you wanna work on, one specific thing, and then we will probably split into two, three things that are mostly what you desire as a group and go ahead and talk about those things. Yeah? What I would really like to do, and I've had this concept for a while, is for me I like having maybe every couple of months having a mission statement for my life, the things that really motivate me and being clear about my motivations and realizing when they're coming from myself or when they're being socially pressured or when I'm afraid for money and just setting up my mission statement and then having a bunch of keywords that refer back to my mission statement and then a bunch of howards, so tactical things that I'd like to do that relate to my mission statement. And I think it would be really, really amazing if we use this outreach process that we're doing to find the spaces to ask people what are they motivating, what's motivating them, what are their keywords that they would like to use as a cloud to define the space of motivations or their interests, and then what are the practical, tangible things that they're doing so that if we have this data and it's organized in a specific way and that the tags were connected enough that we may find each other and support each other. And so that's just one of the things that I thought would be really great to do. I'm just here to listen and help. Yeah, actually, similarly, I don't have a specific thing I want to get done here but I would love if I hear something exciting to help out with some projects. So, yeah. Well, it depends on what it is that I hear. What are my strengths? My idea, yes. My idea is the science will solve more than 80% of problems, maybe also have social problems because the unknown person makes trouble while the known person is out of troubles. So if we make a science museum or science fair in every country, it is a very good idea to know the children and the adults. What about the life? What about the science? What we can, how can we use the science to serving our self and others? That's my idea. Yes. I think we can help by how I can and science. If people get to learn well, if they get the ability to make their ideas into projects and then a product, so that will be so impressive and will make a big change in community, mainly. So it's so general, but I think that's the main thing. Okay, I didn't get your question. Is it what you want us to do here right now or in the future? Okay, in the future, perhaps long-term, it's on robotics and AI. It's an interesting area because I can see that there are new uses in various parts of the robots and AI will come mainstream. So I see that that's an interesting area. So maybe for now, it's people who have that interest. I'd like to collaborate with them and meet them. I think maybe it might be interesting to have something like a gathering point database for real challenges. Like, I don't know, you mentioned, for instance, the 3D printer you're doing out of scrap electronics. And oftentimes I see people trying to find some challenge, something really useful to do, and then they do an iPhone cover. And then I think it will be interesting to have something more useful to them to learn on. Let's all, okay, so everybody, we're gonna take 30 seconds to think quietly about a one sentence that you can present to the group in a quick fashion, okay? So 30 seconds, think about what challenge you're going to present that you want help on, right? Either today or in the future. Okay, everybody ready? Okay, one sentence or less. Sorry, this is driving me nuts. I love you all, but wow. Go for it. I want to have one place where within 10 years, children can go and tell, I've got a problem and what should I do to have this solved? What, how do I learn? Mine is very much aligned with that. Bringing that mentality of I can do it, I can change things to kids as well. I'd like to discuss here this blog post on the gentrification of the maker movement that you might have read. I would like to join in that discussion. May I, I'm sorry, break this, because I made some notes, so just come in. I wanted to say a couple more things that I would concretely like to do based around this network or this community that I mentioned earlier. So I work in a world where there are still so many cliches in these Western countries that we work on about what places and developing countries look like and what abilities people have there to innovate. And I think we totally have the ability to turn that around in a really short time. And like you said, working on AI issues and robotics, I get all these weird cliches from different ways. I get the, oh, but people don't even have houses to live in there. Why would they be working on robotics? As much as I get, why would you be working with those kind of people, they're not poor, they don't really need your help. And around that, there's a whole sea of weird perceptions and cliches. And I would really like us all to think about how we can work together to help clear those up quickly, because I think it can totally be done by helping showcase some of the fantastic work, for instance, that you're doing in the spaces that you have at conferences like this in media in different ways. I would also really like to think about how, I mean, this community I have and the sort of platforms that we have and the stuff that we're putting out on GitHub or other places is very small. And I would really like to find ways of seeing how we could just expand that because there's so much knowledge that is worth sharing. We had a great conversation earlier around policy, for instance. In Germany, there doesn't have to be a policy or law around maker spaces, because it's covered with a whole bunch of other stuff. But where you live, explaining to your government what your space is and why it's not like a terrorist hub, but something that you're trying to communicate, contribute to the community is a really important thing. And getting the legislation around that is also really important. Hardware imports, et cetera. So finding a place where we can share working policies and experiences of lobbying governments for that kind of thing, but as well as finding what you said, a space where we can share knowledge around open products and resources that we're building in our centers and to kind of connect to people in different spaces if you need assistance or information with a product that you're working in. Or even finding different ways of sharing like how to sustain a place and how to create revenue around that. I think those are all things that I would really, really like to think about with you how to create a knowledge repository that's open and accessible and sort of broaden this sort of small thing that we're trying to do. Thank you. Okay, okay, sorry. What I'd like to learn is in the future is how technology makes sense in the Kenyan and so it's in this context because that's where I work from and not just replicating what's happening in Germany or in the US and bringing it to Kenya by figuring out how it makes sense for us. I would like to have something like in Hacker Space Exchange program so we have a human fabric to technical infrastructure. Like I said, language, I would love to visit all these different places and have people visit us and speak their language. And yeah, that would be great. So I've been visiting all these different spaces and I would love other people to do that and also to find a way that they can get funded if and their visa is taken care of if they're coming from other places that are more difficult. From a global perspective, my opinion would be important to have a global repository of information so we can share our experiences. Each country has their own specifics in terms of politics, economics, social issues, et cetera. But we are all part of the same movement. I mean, bringing technology, et cetera. So having at least one place that we can share information and share experiences and make questions and help each other would be the very minimum that we need. I actually, currently we're trying to further iterate our designs for the 3D printer. So I'm actually located inside that wooden structure. So if you wanna help, we can come talk about that. We're building, I'm building the printer as we speak. So that's one thing. Another is I'd like to have a conversation around building an inclusive makerspace. What I'd really like to see is just more systematic research in different areas around makerspaces. I think there's so many topics within this maker movement, production, collaboration, education, international development, whatever, there are hundreds of buzzwords. And I think I would love to see, we already talked about this on NIS today, if there was a research group or a journal or an open journal or a conference, if we would manage to establish something like that. And what I can offer is university infrastructure trying to get funding using the venue, whatever is linked to that. I wanna talk about economic sustainability in ways that hackerspaces in communities can provide for themselves and for their members financially in ways that build rather than diluting their values and culture and using the mainstream interest. Like we've all seen sort of the maker movement going more mainstream, I guess you could say, and sort of a bit more commercial and co-opting that for good. I would see, so from what I see from the discussions, there are two main topics that emerge. One is sustaining, actually three. One is hackerspace exchange program. The other thing that was mainly discussed about was how to sustain these spaces and make them more inclusive. And the third one was help clear perceptions and cliches and share experiences when it comes to legislation, sorry, when it comes to law or your personal experience of setting a maker space in a different country. So are we good to discuss these three things as a group? A fourth thing is maybe how to find projects that are similar to ones you're working on, whether that be promoting science education or 3D printers from e-waste. We were thinking a bit about this and aren't sure how to do it, but like hashtags, maybe? Let's talk about it. Yeah, repeat the first three things again. Sustainability. Second is hackerspace exchange program. How can you facilitate an exchange program? Third would be to share your experiences with this law or other sort of experiences of setting up. And the fourth one is what Anna just said about. So finding like-minded people and projects to work on within this global network. Okay. Okay, great. Are there groups we've forgotten? Or something else? There are a bunch of other things, but I think largely this is what we wanted. Okay, great then. So those, we could do this two ways. I think we've past exceeded our time, so I don't know what your plans are. We could have a small- Try it and link from our website. Yeah, but we could have a small discussion here. Yeah, so we could just set up one, two, three. One is sustainability. Two is how you wanna document experiences. Three is exchange programs. And four is about where you wanna put a central repository. So we could have one, two, three and four here. So we could go to the most interesting group for you and then decide upon how we take it further. Is that good? Yeah, because this is, yeah, we're already 20 minutes past. Much faster. Sorry. Okay, so decide that in your group. Like, is this something that you're gonna get each other's contact information and you're gonna talk about it later and that's what you're gonna do? Or does everybody have an hour? Figure that out, because if we do it in plenary, it's not gonna work. So I will set up hotpads for all the different groups. So you can just use that to continue your discussions. Is that good? On our website, can you write that up to my large? Yeah, we'll put the wiki's on the website once we are ready with that. Okay. Can you open up like next edit or something? So we can show everyone the, we can show everyone our website. So our website, and we'll pass that around is Anansi-A-N-A-N-S-E. Group.com. And we'll have a wiki set up here, so you can all go and look at that. They make that really big and then. And you'll put it on the wiki, or the hotpads on the wiki somewhere? Yes. We will do that. Cool, so. I'm gonna be in the exchange program. So each one of you can get to one, two, three, and four, yeah? Exchange. Oh, then I'm gonna go to the experience. Okay. I see what it is. You can take a picture in the screen.