 Where would what in innovation terms we call the laggards fit in your four temperament models and How would you sort of engage with them to? encourage more innovation The laggards Superficially you'd put in what would be the dependables because they're the ones that tend to be slower to change Having said that I've worked with lots of what we call laggards and Been able to achieve change. It's the way you approach it and understanding their values and what's actually driving What they're looking for in their farm business and then being able to position whatever that technology or practices might be to get there So they tended to be more on if you can think of a slide on the left-hand side the people that Tend to think what who like working in the business rather than on the business tend to be more in that laggards sort of end But I I always have trouble with the laggards sort of tag because I know some people that Everybody said all the layouts. I won't do anything. They will do something You've just got to be able to work with them and I think understanding where they're coming from as that's starting point and Then tailoring accordingly and I think we've been really poor at that We somehow are attracted to the people that want to grab a technology we put out there and run with it because it's easy Because they're taking it from us. The hard of it is to pick up the next level down Yes, Kate Burke from think aggregate came good talk once again Following on from that question came Which temperament type? Tends to have the better likelihood of getting a good return on investment See that's another one where All four of them can And in fact, I've seen and I'll work with a number of what I call the dependables And they get really good return on investment because what they do is they're very careful about a dollar They spend and it's already been raised today that you know understanding your costs and driving your costs down tend to do that I don't necessarily get the spectacular returns, but at the same time they don't lose a lot of money so they're they tend to be a Very stable sort of group that get a reasonably consistent return on investment Sometimes the pioneers will pull off a big one But I've had some pioneers that have gone down the gurgler in a really big way too just because I've taken a punt They're more more likely to take a risk more likely to have a crack at something. So I don't think again I don't think the personality You can't categorize him with those personalities because I think all of them can do it right and all of them can not get the return So what what what do you want to be dependable? I guess my question was really for the Investors in the room or or people implying managers which type of manager should they be implying if they're Wanting to get a robust and long-term return on investment. I think you answered the question. No, it was good I'd say there isn't one I can find some really good Doers some really good doers and I've got a few of those clients that I've worked with now and If you're an investor and you want to do invest in someone that was willing to have a crack and do a good job That'd be fantastic Okay, any more questions. Yes, I can see a hand up there back Up the back and to the under the lights there Thank you. Thank you. It's Diane Lewis I asked a question earlier this morning about family farms and farming families and their resilience or ability to stay but now I'm in rural Victoria where there's been a closure of a lot of the Institutions would allow the research that you're working with and talking about in meat and livestock all drugs and whatever They've closed and the extension isn't there So what is it that we have nowadays to enable the interface between the people on the farms and the knowledge that you're all talking about and the Technologies that you're talking about Where is that nexus now? Okay? Well, I'm going to ask one or the other of the panel to answer who Richard Christine So certainly there has been a significant reduction in those resources At the same time, hopefully there's been an increase in alternative mechanisms. So Not all farmers have access to the internet There's a lot more efficiencies that can be gained through an online Communication tool and I think most of the RDCs now have strategies in that place Which I know doesn't suit everyone But it's it certainly filled some of the gaps and then I think the other area that we're working on not by choice But by but by requirement because of those reduction in state-based resources is the puppy's the private sector So we we in MLA certainly have a lot of programs now where we're facilitating and co-investing in the growing of a private sector community around extension by training new consultants And getting them placed into the industry so that they're there ready to provide that kind of service Now I'd like to reiterate that as well I think the RDCs Identify that because the states have withdrawn a lot of those services that there is a gap there and That the RDCs are focused on trying to build some sort of bridge in that area and we've been talking to government about How we actually incentivize the commercial Players in the industry to actually take up some of those roles. It's an absolutely key question. Thank you very much for it Now is there a question down here? Thanks, Mark Ritchie from regional development Australia River in it to Rick we have fairly Substantial forestry industry in the tumet tumber umber area and in time it's going to run out of well It's not going to run out of wood, but the plantation expansion To service the mills and the the organizations like busy It's going to be problematic Where do you see the next lot of in of patient investors coming from to drive that? Expansion because there's a whole lot of innovation that could come from that In a whole lot of different products that we just don't have at the moment because there's not a supply longer-term supply chain Thanks for the question. So for those who don't know the Australia has 1 million hectares of softwood plantations The last hectare was actually planted in 1990 This is for a resource that you need at least 30 years of rotation to get so we've actually got this quite significant looming crisis about where is the wood and how to actually get the wood in the ground and the challenge here and Ross my colleague Ross Hampton from AFPA is in the audience Ross has set up a program of trying to identify regional hubs and and those that are actually located to existing Processing areas of which tumet tumber umber is a key region the challenge. I think is Critically for this type of audience is how do we actually get the farm sector to see trees as part of their crops? You look at the tumet tumber area There is a lot of area very close into the mills that people have decided not to turn into trees Now we actually this is an extension question which goes back to the lady up there It's about trying to get the the right business models Whether those are cooperative structures, which would fail dramatically in the sector to actually develop And trying to actually exercise some of the money from superannuation or other types of investors The new category of investors in the sector the timber investment management organizations They haven't been very good at expanding the state yet But the hurdle rates are actually dropping and it's now talk that they may start to do some greenfield investments But there's there's a whole challenge in this space But from a public policy from a financial and from an industry one and we haven't quite cracked it Okay, and Tim Tim Lester from the council of rural R&D corporations Richard I wanted to ask you about the international collaboration space This is obviously something and a lot of the R&D corporations are talking about and thinking about and and you've entered into some with GRDC What I'm wondering is is are we to? Narrow in our approach to that or is there more that we should be doing to engage with the large multinational companies? Yeah, thanks. Thanks for that Look I Narrow I think there's a lot of opportunities still there's certainly opportunity to to expand that That process and that was actually my closing comment was you know where we where we are leaders We should really take the opportunity and lead. I mean, I don't think it's in every space But in certain specific areas where we truly are you know leading in the world I would really encourage, you know the RDCs and and and You know they're supporting growers to to take a global view because I there's always a temptation I think to yeah, you know, we're leading let's say in dry land agriculture. We can you know develop all the technology and use it for our advantage Going forward. I think it's a false thinking because if you really develop something reasonable and you try to keep it for yourself You know are you probably never going to develop it fully and be you know We're such a small market you're going to be copied Whatever machine you develop is going to be produced at much higher volume somewhere else and you and they're going to it's going to be much cheaper So the Australian, you know approach will be will be you know overtaken Much better. I think to to look look for you know global players that you can collaborate in you may not dominate the space But we can ensure our participation in the development of these global technologies So that we can show you know the correct Adaptation for Australian needs and we can ensure our participation in how it's developed around the world Week ago and what worries me in our space I'm protected cropping and there's some of the stuff that we seeing you you guys working on it takes such a long time for it Actually to come to Australia get registered and once it is registered some of those formulations in the microbial space are not very Stable for long-distance travel, you know, how far ahead the road are you for establishing production here in Australia to keep us you know with With the rest of the world up front with them I mean that that challenge of microbial products. It's it's a significant challenge You know the the shelf life of those products that that we we bought that company in Sacramento three years ago Was aggregate formerly a request and one of their fundamental business options or Principles was that they wanted to develop products that were shelves shelf stable and could be you know distributed through a normal Distribution system you didn't have to have them in massive fridges and and have very short shelf life after return them and so on So in principle those products will be you know, let us say two years shelf stable So that will allow global Distribution most of them. I think are manufactured either in Mexico or or in America At this point we haven't considered local production. It's very very specialised And we're going to rely on that that that long-term storage and I hope it I hope it works. Yeah Lead time for registration here They're coming actually we're going to launch the first products this this year so And they'll gradually roll out over the next two to three years. Yeah I have a question for Rick Rick you were talking about Fashion as a type of innovation And I sort of got the feeling of seeing people walking around with wooden shirts and and and jackets But look is it relevant to forest and wood products? Rayon is actually a wood product. That's one But wood actually for those who watch grand designs is very much on trend at the moment And that's actually my biggest fear because architects are like most Designers they like to do things that are different and you're actually start to then move to other other products One of the areas where we're trying to ensure that wood doesn't become just a trend is actually in the education and health Area where there is actually research suggesting that it actually can improve educational and health outcomes And it's trying to move it away from a fashion, but turn it into something that actually has long-term benefits to the to the occupants Okay, look in the Essence of time I'm going to close the session, but before I do so I'd just like to say Thank you to our speakers. I think they've done an excellent job. They're on time their information was absolutely excellent And I'd like you to give them all around a report