 Welcome to Skywatch, co-hosted by me, Jimmy Lease in Burlington, Vermont, and Danika Katowicz in Chicago. I've been working with many Vermonters to stop the F-35 training here since the plan to base it at the airport in Vermont's most densely populated cities was first announced in 2010. We've continued to campaign since the first of 20 F-35 jets arrived at the airport in 2019. Exactly four years ago, Skywatch calls for grounding the F-35 because of its toxic noise, its climate killing greenhouse gas emissions, and its purpose, war, wars based on lies. 1,300 children live so close to the runway or in the flight path and are repeatedly exposed to its dangerous 115 decibel noise that damages their hearing and impairs their cognitive development. And I'm the national co-director of Code Pink, which is working to halt the F-35 program nationally and internationally. Today we'll be talking more broadly about war and specifically the war in Ukraine. Here with us today is Medea Benjamin, the co-founder of Code Pink and the author of War on Ukraine, Making Sense of a Senseless Conflict. Thanks for being with us, Medea. Hey, nice to be on with you. So the U.S. just announced that they'd be sending shells made with depleted uranium, a radioactive material used in nuclear weapons to Ukraine. Places where depleted uranium has been used by the U.S. or NATO like Iraq or Yugoslavia are still facing long-term health issues and fallout. Where does the escalation in Ukraine stop? Do you think we're heading towards nuclear war? I think everybody should be concerned about where this is heading because it seems like this is an unwinnable war and that neither side is going to just walk away. And so the Biden administration keeps upping the anti-sending weapons that they originally said they weren't going to send. I mean, we can go all the way back to early on when they said they weren't going to send Patriot missiles or Haimars or tanks. Then it was the F-16s and it looks like they are going to be sent. They're already training Ukrainian pilots on that. And cluster bombs that were announced, which violates international treaty because they are such heinous weapons that kill people long after the fighting ends. And now we have these cluster munitions. I mean, these depleted uranium munitions, which, as you said, we're used in Iraq and I've been to Fallujah. I've seen the results of the use of those weapons and deformed children, terrible cancer. And that's another line that's been violated. Now the Biden administration keeps saying, well, this is not going to end up in a nuclear war. We don't believe Putin when he bluffs about using nuclear weapons. But why should we not believe that this is where it's headed? I do think that if the war keeps going and the U.S. is helping Ukraine to take back Crimea, which is seen as such a critical territory for the Russians to control, that there is much more of a chance that this could turn into a nuclear confrontation. And we should all be worried about that. And I think particularly places like Burlington where there is a base for nuclear weapon delivery system. And the F-35 is a nuclear weapon delivery system. So do you think that people who live within 5 or 10 miles of an F-35 base, including places like Burlington, Vermont, should be concerned that they're on the target list for Russian or Chinese nuclear missiles? Just as we can be sure that the Russians and the Chinese have already mapped out where these key points are in the United States, the people in Burlington should be very concerned that they are now part of this. And that if indeed it turns into a nuclear war, it's not just going to be the places where nuclear weapons are stored in Europe, there are five countries that are storing U.S. nuclear weapons, including the Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy, Germany and Turkey. And there are peace groups in those countries that we are connected with that are very concerned about them being targets. So the people in Burlington should be concerned as well. So what about diplomacy, Medea? There was a diplomatic settlement in 2015 and former German Chancellor Angela Merkel said that it was just to buy time to build up the Ukrainian military. And the U.S. has tried to sabotage negotiations before. In view of such bad faith, do you think diplomacy can still work and what path do you think we're on? Well, if we want to avoid a nuclear war or World War III, our only option is diplomacy. And while we should roundly condemn the Russians for this invasion and the atrocities that are being committed, we see even from released Pentagon documents that this is a war of attrition. We see that the counteroffensive is failing miserably from the Ukrainian side and that there are so many Ukrainians and Russian soldiers being killed every day. This is really a horrific war that makes no sense, and we need to push both sides to the negotiating table. There have been many attempts, you were referring back to the Minsk Accords that were signed in 2015. And indeed, Ukraine did not carry out its side of the agreement by allowing the breakaway republics in the Donbas to be autonomous regions within the nation state of Ukraine. If they had done that, I don't think we would be seeing this war today. But that didn't happen, and now there have been many countries that have stepped forward from six nations in Africa to the president of Brazil to the pope and the Chinese that have put themselves forward as mediators are actually written potential starting points for negotiations, and the U.S. has dismissed all of them and has not put pressure on the Ukrainians to start moving from the battlefield to the negotiating table. So I feel that the reason that the Biden administration is not pushing that is because we're not pushing the Biden administration enough, and that indeed is our job. So Code Pink has been increasingly active against the F-35 and against the Ukraine war. What are some of the things Code Pink is doing? And I understand there's a plan for action in October. What is the plan in D.C. for building anti-war action? Well, it's interesting, Jimmy, because what we see is that public opinion in the United States is turning against this war. And of course, that happens as war is dragged on, and the American people start wondering, where is this $114 billion that went to Ukraine? What could it be doing to help their lives here at home? And the Biden administration has recently asked for another $24 billion. So we think it's important to step up our opposition, especially in Congress, where these people are supposed to represent us. And what we've heard from Congresspeople is that they're not hearing enough from us. So on October 3rd and 4th, we're having a public event on the 3rd with Dr. Cornell West, with myself, other speakers that are going to be rallying people for the next day. October 4th, where we're going to be in the halls of Congress, focusing particularly on the Senate, so that they do indeed hear from us. And we want this to happen before the vote takes place, because we want those people in Congress to see that there is indeed a lot of opposition. And so far, the opposition in Congress is only coming from the extreme right in the Republican Party, and we want to call out the Democrats, especially those who consider themselves progressive Democrats, and say you can't be a progressive and be for continuing to fuel this war. Thanks, Medea, and for our listeners and viewers, you can go to codepink.org forward slash urgent piece to find the event pages for October 3rd and 4th. We have a group of Vermonters coming down so you can join them if you're watching this from Vermont. We also have a bunch of ways to engage online. If you can't make it, the event on the 3rd will be live streamed, so you can still RSVP on Codepink's website. And then if you can make it to the advocacy day on October 4th, that would be amazing. We hope to have a really big group. And for our Vermonters, Medea, I have a question for you about Bernie Sanders. How has he been on the issue of the war in Ukraine? Is he speaking and voting for or against U.S. funding? Do we need a new progressive anti-war leader in the Senate? Bernie Sanders is absolutely key, and I feel that he's been so hypocritical when it comes to this war. He had a piece right before the Russian invasion saying how important it was that we talk to Russia, that we find a diplomatic solution. He talked about the expansion of NATO and how this went against the national security interests of Russia and how the U.S. feel if a hostile foreign alliance was amassing at our borders. And then, lo and behold, the evasion began, and he changed his tune. And he has been totally supporting every single weapons shipment to Ukraine. And more than that, he has said that you can't talk to Putin, which is ridiculous. I mean, you have to talk to Putin. And so we feel that it's important that Vermonters join us, and there will be actions both in Burlington and Washington, D.C. and his offices, because he should be somebody taking the lead on this issue to say, we need this money for so many critical needs in this country, and not to keep fueling a war that he knew before the invasion must be settled by negotiations. So I want to follow up on that. It seems to me that going back in time, it was progressives, it was the left that was leading the anti-war movement all the way back in the opposition to the Vietnam War, which was also a war based on lies. And now we're seeing Democrats and progressives largely silent or supporting this. What accounts for this shift in progressives? What do you think is really behind that? Well, one is that there's a Democrat in the White House and that when a group of 30 progressives signed a letter back in October of last year saying that in addition to the weapons, maybe we should try some negotiations, they got slapped down so hard by their own party that within 24 hours they did something remarkable, rescind the letter. And ever since that, they've not only been silent, they have been voting for more and more weapons to be sent to Ukraine. And they have not come out to join us in a call for a ceasefire and negotiations. And so that's one of the big reasons, Jimmy. And I think that there has been so much party discipline in saying that we have to leave this to the president. He knows what he's doing. We have to look strong on security. And when you break down the polls that I mentioned, the opinion poll, the last one by CNN, it turns out that it's the vast majority of Republicans, 71%, say they don't want the U.S. to keep sending more money to Ukraine. But the Democrats are in favor of it because they're hearing from their own party that this is a good position to have. I think it's a big mistake. I think as the election season gets closer and closer, they're going to find that this is not a positive thing in terms of how the public reacts to it. But you would think that the squad, Barbara Lee, Bernie Sanders, people like that would be willing to go up against their own party on this, and they haven't been. And so that's, you know, that's why I say I don't think that they have heard enough from us. They, there is one very progressive congresswoman who said that the Ukrainian American community in the United States is very well organized, and they are constantly in the halls of Congress and pushing for more weapons. And of course, we have to talk about the media, which is giving such a one-sided view of this, saying that there is victory possible on the battlefield, saying that this is a fight between democracy worldwide and autocracy worldwide. And so the Democrats and the progressives are falling in line, and it's very unfortunate, and it has to be turned around. And do you have been traveling for over a year now with your book for your book tour? I was just wondering how the reception has been, you know, interacting with people who come to your events or that you may meet in the cities that you go to talking about the book. For the most part it's been great. People have a lot of questions and we have a lot of good discussions, but in some places there have been protests, even cancellations of my talk, oftentimes by the Ukrainian community that complains to the university or the bookstore or even to one of the churches, that I am a Putin apologist, which is absolutely ridiculous, because I don't start out a talk without condemning Russia for this invasion and saying that if we're in Russia I would be in prison right now for protesting this invasion. Nevertheless, there are people out there that think calling for peace talks is appeasing the Russians rather than wanting to end the killing and the increased militarization. So for the most part it's been good, and I've been doing this for about eight months now and continue to go around the country because I do think it's so important that we educate people. But Jimmy, as you said, there's a lot of confusion in what was once an anti-war movement. I find people who've been Quakers their entire lives who have suddenly said this war is different and forgetting the whole concept that war is not the answer, that war is the problem, not the solution. So it is important that we go out and educate people. But, Danik, as you know, Code Pink is not just about educating, it's about mobilizing, organizing, and that's why this week of actions that we're having, the first week of October, not only in Washington, D.C., but all around the country and around the globe because we've hooked up with groups throughout the world, particularly in Europe, and we want to do more actions as a global community. Because indeed there is a majority of people on the global scale that are being affected by this war with increase in the prices of grain, the prices of energy. And gosh, I mean, we will all be affected if it turns into a nuclear war. So we are working globally to try to put the pressure to move to negotiations in a ceasefire. So I'm going to be going down to D.C. to participate in that. And I'm really looking forward to that because this is really helping to initiate a new anti-war movement in this country. And I think that's essential because this war is escalating, escalating, and it's got to stop. We've already spent more than $100 billion for this war so far. And there's no end in sight. This war could continue just like the war in Iraq, which went on for 20 years in Afghanistan, similarly. And this is on top of a $1 trillion per year budget to feed the military industrial complex. Somebody is benefiting from this kind of war, and it's one war right after another. Who do you think are the ones who benefit? And are most ordinary Americans benefiting or enjoying a better life from these wars, and in particular this war, to weaken Russia? We see the profits of the weapons industry skyrocket with this war. Certainly it benefits the big five weapons manufacturers, but lots of defense contractors that are getting more and more money as the justification for a trillion-dollar budget is because we have to fight Russia and potentially China as well. We also see the dirty energy companies that are benefiting from the sanctions against Russia where those companies have run in to replace the relatively cheap energy that the Europeans were getting from Russia. And their profits, both in the oil and the gas sector, have reached levels that they have never seen before. We also see some companies like Monsanto that have been buying up land in Ukraine, profiting from this chaos that's going on there. And we see the financial institutions, particularly BlackRock, that have already signed memorandum of understanding with the Zelinsky government to be financing the rebuilding of Ukraine. So there are many companies that are benefiting from the destruction of Ukraine, and there are many more companies that are already lining up to benefit from the rebuilding of Ukraine, assuming that this is not going to go into a nuclear Armageddon. But as you imply, Jimmy, it's some big companies that profit tremendously from war and unfortunately have outsized power when it comes to influencing our government. There are more lobbyists for the weapons industry than there are members of Congress. And who is hurt by this, the vast majority of people all over the world, Ukraine, Russia, the African countries that are hurting from the higher prices. And here in this country, when we see cuts to such critical programs like food aid for people in poverty, we see critical cuts to the infrastructure that we so desperately need in this country. And we see that we don't even have a decent healthcare system in this country. There are so many needs. That's why we were able to get 1,300 mayors that represent the largest cities throughout the United States to pass a resolution saying that they need this money for their citizens and their cities and that it's incumbent upon the federal government, upon the Biden administration to come up with a solution to the war in Ukraine so that that money stays in the United States. One of the things you mentioned was polling and there was that CNN poll in which 55% of the American people said they did not want to have any more spending for this war. That the $120 billion that we've spent is enough and we've got to put a stop to it. Well, 55% is a good majority of the American people. Isn't that a basis for Congress to stop funding the war? Do we have any kind of democracy in this country? Why is it that the military-industrial complex controls our foreign policy instead of the American people? Well, that's right. And when you think about that 55%, it's quite remarkable given the media propaganda that people are hearing every day. And so people have really seen through this and those opinion polls keep moving higher and higher as time goes by. And more people recognize that a ceasefire and negotiations is the way to move ahead. Why does the military-industrial complex control our foreign policy? It's because we don't have a democracy in this country. It's because we do have two war parties because even people like Bernie Sanders get hundreds of thousands of dollars from the weapons industry. This is just typical. When you look at the people who are in the Armed Services Committees or the Foreign Affairs Committees or the budgeting and appropriations, they get tremendous amount of money from these weapons companies. And let's not forget the revolving door. So you have people like our Secretary of Defense who comes directly from the board of Raytheon. They are playing such an outsized role. And it means that the things that are actually in the benefit of the American people get pushed aside. But I want to say something that is positive, Jimmy, and that is that with the presidential election starting to heat up, we do see other candidates who are coming out and saying that we need to end this conflict. And those are coming from the Republican Party, from Trump and DeSantis, as well as Vivek. And it's coming from the Democratic Party, from Robert Kennedy. It's coming from Green Party, Cornell West. And it's very interesting that they are seeing that this resonates with the American public. And so my hope is that the Biden administration, as it starts looking at these polls and what the American people are thinking and wanting, will start to push in a different direction for negotiations. That's my hope. Thank you, Medea. And, you know, we in Vermont and in Chicago can see the effects of war and imperialism taking hold in our own communities as well. I think Chicago announced like a hundreds of million dollar budget deficit for next year. Our American cities don't have the resources we need, like you shared earlier. There's a lot of room for investment. And if the federal government can mobilize hundreds of billions of dollars for a war in just under two years, they can mobilize the same amount of money and even more for the people as well. And that's why it's so important that we all need to get together for the global days of action, starting on September 30th going through October 8th. You can join us in DC on October 3rd and 4th. And if you can't be physically there in DC, there's ways to engage online. Just go to codepink.org forward slash urgent piece to find all of that information. There's toolkits for social media. There's toolkits for engaging if you're not in DC and there's a lot of options, but we do have to make our voices heard in the halls of Congress and in our own cities. So please, please join us codepink.org forward slash urgent piece. Well, that is really an important message that people can participate and there are actions to participate in. And, you know, thinking back to when I first started getting involved in the peace movement in 1965, I went to my first demonstration against the Vietnam War. It was on Boston Common and there were a thousand people. We need to do that again. We need to rebuild opposition because we have two major parties of war, both of them dominated by the pro-war minority in the United States. And it's violently against anything like diplomacy and it continues to get us into these U.S. interventions. And most of these wars we lose. So the whole thing is just a huge waste. We've got to put a stop to it. And so in our final, and I guess we have a couple of minutes left, so in that little time, Medea, maybe you could talk about what kinds of things an anti-war movement can do. I remember that in the 60s the actions against the war spawned a huge growth of freedom and liberation in various ways that women's movement came out of the anti-war movement. The gay movement came out of it. It helped facilitate and build the civil rights movement. And itself was a product of activists who had been in the civil rights movement. So I think this kind of movement building is really valuable. What do you think? Yes. I mean, let's be clear that it's harder right now because there are not U.S. boots on the ground, although that could be something that Zelinsky starts pushing for. It's harder also because Russia is the immediate aggressor, and it's harder because it's a Democrat in the White House. But all of these things are obstacles that must be overcome. And when you look back at the days of Vietnam, one of the most important things was the teachings that were done. And I think that this fall on campuses we have to have teachings all over the country to get many more young people involved in this. We also need to make the connections between the environmental movement that is very youth-based and war. And Code Pink has been involved in this for quite a long time and will be having wonderful actions this week when the U.N. Security Council is meeting. And there will be big protests in New York City with contingents that are connecting the issues of militarism and the environment. We have also been reaching out to the faith-based community because it's so important that we get people involved who recognize that war is a moral issue. And that's why we have been organizing to support the Pope and his efforts for peace. We've been putting out ads and faith-based papers around the country. We've also been mobilizing people who have traditionally been against nuclear weapons and calling for arms reduction because not all of them are on board when it comes to this war in Ukraine. And then the, I think, upping the ante, you know, we've made a lot of calls and Danica has been great in getting volunteers to be constantly making calls to Congress. But obviously calls is not enough and that's why we're excited to move into the next level of resistance in the fall, doing sit-ins in offices. I've been talking to people from Massachusetts and they say I'm so upset with our Congress, our Congress people, Jim McGovern, who's supposed to be a peace guy and he's not doing anything or Senator Warren. I want to sit in in their offices. We're getting people from Wisconsin who are very upset with what their progressive Democrats are saying about this war. And so I think people are ready to take the next step to start doing sit-ins, to start getting arrested in offices, to really turn this into, turn up the heat on our elected officials. Danica, you probably have other ideas about what we should be doing as well. Well, I'm going to have to say that we've run out of time, though, and Skywatch is really proud and delighted to have had you, Medea, on the program. But unfortunately we've run out of time and so maybe we can do it again to follow up after the events in October. Thank you very much for joining us. Skywatch will be on again next month.