 Welcome to Toffy TV, today I am joined by actor, writer, director, Sam Ho, most important thing, Evertonian. Sam, welcome to Toffy TV. Thank you very much, really pleased to be here, big fan. So, top man, top man, we are big fans of yours as well, top man, peds loving the fact you were in Captain America, so there you go. I'm loving the fact you've been in Death in Paradise, I mean, outstanding. I mean I was the core. Outstanding. So I didn't do a lot. But that's okay. Yeah, it's hard. I had to spend a whole day lying on the grass being eaten by ants in Guadalupe. I've had easier days work for sure. Yeah, definitely. And how long were you in Guadalupe for? How long were you up there for to do it? I think I was there for about 10 days. Yeah, definitely the nicest place that I've been able to go and film. Not a terrible show on that one. No, no, I guess it wasn't. I guess it wasn't. Listen, there's a lot of buzz around at the moment about the English game which is available on Netflix. I'm loving it. I'm up to episode four. I haven't finished episode four yet, but so far. That's my episode. That's my episode. That's so cool. That's you. This is your one. This is your one. I'm three quarters of the way three, but listen, it's absolutely brilliant. I'm loving the whole thing. Did that come about, Sam? Did the idea come about? Well, it was strange. The show is the sort of Julian Fellows who's famous for writing down to now and then various other things. Gosford Park. He has had the idea where the sort of friend of his for a long time and was happening. I had acted in a show for the production company who were making it. When I heard that this show about the sort of history of football was potentially going to happen, I said, look, you've got to give me a piece of that. Either let me write something because as it happens, I had had a similar idea myself about exactly the same period development in TV ten years ago with another company and that never happened. But when I heard about the English game, I was like, look, I know a bit of the history. I'm a massive football fan, you know, whatever. I just loved, you know, even if I have to come in for one day and be a sort of background artist, sort of, you know, cheering in the stands, I just would love a bit of it. And then as it happened, I'm getting an audition for it. And also a production team said, look, you know, we do need someone to write episode four. I'm actually coming in and pitching for it. I didn't get the acting part, but I did get the writing game. OK. Yeah, which was great, which was fantastic. Which is better, would you rather have acted in it or written this episode? I mean, it would have been a lot of fun getting paid to go and play football in the 1880s. I would have enjoyed that. For me, career-wise, you know, I've acted in a lot of period dramas, which are always great fun. This was my first ever TV writing credit. So, yeah, if I had to have picked, I would have picked the writing gig, because it was a step forward for me. Outstanding. I mean, it's a brilliant show. I mean, was it your idea to get Everton mentioned in it? Everton Way mentioned in an episode? Of course it was. Of course it was. I was like, one way or another, I'm going to get Everton into it. I try and get Everton into all of my pieces, actually. I had a play on in London a couple of years ago. One of the characters being Everton fan talking about Ross Barkley. And when I went to go and watch it one night, I just saw a guy in front of me say, turns with girlfriend and say, the writer must be an Everton fan. Then your work was done. Your work was done at that moment. Outstanding. I always try to get a toffee in there somewhere if I can. Brilliant. I mean, what have you made of Fergus Souter basically being Leighton Bains with a moustache? Do you know what? It was bizarre, because I met Kevin Goughry, who's the actor playing Fergus, and quite a few times. Actually, I've played football with him myself. And I was there when they were shooting. And it never occurred to me. And then it came out and the pictures started going around. And someone obviously said, you know, it's Leighton Bains. And I was like, it is. I mean, it's uncanny. It looks exactly like him. Yeah. I can't really believe I hadn't said it before. But there's a, yeah, there's a real. And actually the both Fergus Souter and the actor himself, Kevin Goughry, sort of Bainsy quality to him, just, you know, very chill, very low key, like really good quality man. So, yeah, it's bizarre. It's one of them things that once it's said to you, you can't unsee it. So I'd seen it before I'd even started watching it. So it might have even been paired, actually, who'd said to me Leighton Bains is in this. So once he put it in my head, I can only see Bains now with the Scottish accent, you know, outstanding. But absolutely. I mean, I think that's how Bainsy would have played that anyway. He'd have been brilliant in that role. And maybe that's something he'll do when football finally finishes. There's always been talk about Bainsy playing in the middle. And I've always been an advocate for that. I always think he could do quite a good job of dictating the game and, you know, sort of just rooting it to either wing from the middle. I think he'd be great. So, yeah, I think Fergus Euter could be a sign of things to come for Leighton. Without a shadow, without, without a shadow, without. We've moved on to Everton, obviously, with it. But for anyone, make sure you catch the English game, because it is absolutely brilliant, historical, just fantastic, and Everton mentioned in it. You can't beat that. I'm moving on to your life as an Evertonian, I guess. See, you attended Eaton as a boy. You must have been the only Evertonian at Eaton. I think I was. I think I was. I didn't meet any of Everton fans at Eaton, to be true. It was a, you know, it was Chelsea, Arsenal, Man United. Yeah, I was in a sort of support of one. And a lot of people, you know, when they meet me and I say I'm into football and they say, who do you support? And I say Everton and they sort of go Everton, you know, because I'm posh, I'm a bit of a posh git. And I don't really, I don't have a strong Liverpool accent and I probably wouldn't be picked out of the crowd as being an obvious Everton fan. My mum, if you want the history, my mum married an Everton fan, basically. So when I was about 10 years old and I was sort of beginning to get into football and I think probably the first game football ever watched on the TV with my stepdad was a 95 cup final. So that was the beginning and it's been downhill since. I was going to say, you sold the false dream there, really. If that was your first one and we won the FA cup and followed it up with a charity shield a couple of months later you probably thought, oh, this is all right. We win quite a lot of stuff. Yeah, glory supporting has never gone. No, it went spectacularly wrong. That glory support went very, very wrong there. I have to say that without a shadow, without. So how do you get to Goodison often? Is it very much with your work? It's watching from afar. I have not been to Goodison enough. I made my first trip there last year. My first pilgrimage to Goodison to go and watch the Derby, which actually ended up being a cramming match. And I went out with a couple of Everton fans from London actors who I knew. And it was like a dream, honestly. I've been watching them on the TV and I've watched them when they come down to London loads. Never been to Goodison. I'm a big Everton fan. I write a lot on Everton fansites and it felt strange that I'd never been there. So when I finally turned up to Liverpool and to Goodison for the first time I felt like a kid going to a theme park, to be honest. It was amazing. Yeah, I suppose. When you've seen it that often and then you'd actually go, it is quite a sight to behold, I guess. What have you made of, you know, we touched on the fact that we haven't been great for a number of years and obviously we're trying to climb back up. What did you make of the appointment to Carlo Ancelotti? Do you know what? Initially I was sceptical. My brother is a big Arsenal fan. He's a season ticket holder. He was sort of saying, oh, you know, I quite fancy Ancelotti and I was saying, well, I quite fancy Arteta, to be honest. I think I always, I've always been prone to sort of wanting those sort of younger or modern sort of hands-on managers. So Arteta would probably might pick out of those too. I think I was worried, you know, that Carlo's been around for a long time. He's had a lot of jobs and maybe this was just another job to sort of fill his pockets. But I've been really pleasantly surprised and it seems that he's really taken to the club and I think, as I see it, he seems to have a real, you know, to do something that he's not done for a long time, which is to take a team that, you know, is not where and is, you know, rather stuck in mid-table and to build a real project. And he's not had the chance to do that for a long time and it seems to me like he's really up for it. So, yeah. No, I'm, you know, the more I saw them, the more excited I got up until that last Chelsea match, which we'll forget about. But, um... Yeah. We'll round that one off. Let's not talk about... I think maybe we must have... Let's not talk about going around or something. Something was going on, wasn't it? Something went on. Now, you know what, Sam? I was... I'm not convinced Carla would have been... That was my number one at the time for those reasons as well, I was looking and thinking. Not that was he just coming for a payday, but did he have enough energy to, you know, try to re... You know, re-research. Give us a research into... I was one who looked at him as young and hungry and, you know, potentially yet he would... And he's an ex-evident player, obviously, so all of that. And Carla Antelotti was a bit like... You know, he's won everything. You can't deny his track record, of course, but was he... Did he still maintain that hunger and desire, especially when you see what's gone on across the park for us? You know, we needed something like that. And I've been... Ever since he came in, obviously Duncan gave us a big kick when we needed it and woke us up again, but, you know, with a bit of Scottish aggression, which is what we needed. A bit of Fergus Souter, to hear me love aggression that we needed. And Carlos took that on, and, like you, I'm absolutely loving it. The fact that he's so calm, and yet he's done everything, and you're right, he's almost gone back to... This is a fella that was born into a poor Italian family and had to work for everything. And he's so calm on us and that desire to work, he's never left them. And I think I didn't probably respect that enough about him because you see Real Madrid, and you see Juventus, and you see AC Milan, and Chelsea, and you think, oh, he's at those big clubs, the Glaminers' clubs, but this is actually talking back to his work and class roots almost, and I think that makes him a great fit for Everton at the moment. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's hard to predict, certainly for us fans. I mean, I guess multiple brands and the other people inside of the club must have had the opportunity to see his passion and to believe that he was a good fit, but for us fans, it's hard to know that that's going to be there until you see him on the sidelines, but I mean, exactly. As you said, I feel like, hopefully, we've got the best of both worlds, where we've got one, everything under the sun, he's managed in leagues, he's won all the competitions, he's got fantastic tactical pedigree, and we've got someone who seems to have that genuine hunger, that genuine passion for the club, who sort of feels at home, who sort of seems to understand that Everton DNA. So, yeah. I mean, it feels, at the moment, like a great fit, exactly. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. So, going back to the English game, is there any plans for the second series, focusing on maybe different people in it, now what goes on there, or have you not heard of anything at the moment, is it a case of wait and see? I think, I mean, I know that the production company who made it were minded to that. It will depend ultimately on Netflix, I think as far as I know, it's done pretty well, it's been in the top five for the Netflix charts for the last couple of weeks, and I think it seems to be getting sort of viewed over the world. You know, I would love there to be a second series. If there is, I don't even know whether I would get to be involved. You know, I would love to be a second series just to watch. If there was a second series that I could be involved in, that would be even better. And I think, you know, people love football, people love football, and there are so many fantastic true stories about the history of football. I've had a lot of people get in contact with me and saying, you know, why haven't you talked more about, you know, the Scottish players taking it to South America, or why haven't you talked about, you know, the role that Sheffield played in the origins of football, or why haven't you talked about, you know. And they're all right, you know. The English game does, did have to take, you know, some sort of historical jumps as every sort of historical drama does in order to sort of keep your world condensed. But there are a lot of stories out there, you know. I was talking to someone about, you know, maybe a story about Dixie, you know. I think... I was just going to say. Yeah, that story that... I could see you with your hair slicked back, Sam. I could see you with the hair slicked back pulling off a young... Being like Dixie there, I could see you. I'm not bad in the air, I have to tell you. I'm not bad in the air. I fancy myself to score a few headers, although I'm more of a centre-back, sadly. But that, no, but seriously, something like a Netflix series about him is because his life is incredible. There's also the English sailors that went off, and Evertonians that went off and started Barcelona, which is why they've got the English flag on their bats and stuff. You're right. There's unbelievable stories around that haven't been told yet. You've seen the man to do it. Well, I mean, like I said, it's very kind of you. It's not my show, I'm just a small cog in it. But the guy, one of the main producers when I met him, he was talking about how, if it goes well, there's the potential to chart the history of football, you know, to run the beginning of the league, football being spread to Europe, being spread to South America, you know, women's football, the first black footballers, the beginning of European football, the beginning of the Champions League. You've got so much mileage, potentially. But, yeah, it's in the lap of the gods, I suppose. Well, hopefully people will continue to watch it because it's brilliant, and then they will get the second series, and then maybe, if you're not asked to write it, maybe you need to audition again because that's just the trick in the first one. Get me in this one. And then see what happens Sunday, you never know. You never know. Have you got anything patient? Well, exactly. Have you got anything personally coming up, Sam, any acting or you're doing a bit more right now, or is it just very much a case to see what happens next? Well, yeah, I was acting in a play in the West End up until a couple of weeks ago. And that was due to run to June. It was a fantastic play called Leopold Stats, by Tom Stoppard, which had been going fantastically, and it was sort of sold out. And obviously that's had to shut down now. So, we're all hoping that, you know, when things go back to normal, that might start up again. If it doesn't, then it will be, yeah, back to the drawing board as an actor, auditioning and seeing what happens. And I've got loads of writing projects. I've got some TV shows and development. I've got a couple of films and development. So, I need something to get me away from my kid for one morning or afternoon or week. Yeah, let's see how long this lockdown lasts and see what you look like at the end of it, like all of us, I guess. Incredible, incredible. Well, listen to Sam. It's been absolutely brilliant chatting to you today. And thank you very much for taking time out from A, your busy life and B from looking after your child, and always demanding. Just very quickly, you were just telling me before we started about getting an evidence sheet on your child for the first time. Yeah. Has he taken to it? So, my daughter, my daughter who's older, I bought her an evidence sheet and for a year, you know, she was like Everton, she would come to the pub with me. But my daughter, it turns out, is a big wind-up merchant. And my brother, who's the Arsenal season ticket holder, had a word with her and somehow convinced her to pretend that she supports Arsenal. So now every time I try and put the Everton shirt on it, it's chanting Arsenal Arsenal. So she's out and that my three-year-old boy, he's the next great hope. He's now in possession of the shirt and I'm hoping to keep him out of lockdown without any undue influence perverting him from away from Everton. That's it. Keep him on the straight and that. That's it. That's it. Well, Sam, like I said, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to join us. And hopefully we'll get to chat here again in the future. So good luck with everything. Any time. So there you go, lovely to chat to Sam Horde and make sure you catch the English game on Netflix. It's absolutely brilliant and support an Evertonian writer. Why not? Absolutely brilliant. Check it out. Make sure you give the video a thumbs up. Subscribe if you're Everton. If you want more great videos, join us on Patreon. See you later.