 Peterson Rindflesh did I get it right? So golly Stefan yeah, man Akron the under wheel and water And work 12 I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes of October 18th meeting Motion was made in second to approve the minutes of October 18 any corrections to be made Seeing none all in favor Contrary very tonight's presentation Will be concerning Walmart tonight's presentation will be by Paul at Enders Steve Sokolowski Tom Holton and then Mr. Ryan Swanson of arc design Will have Paul at Enders Stand and start the proceedings up here What I wanted to do was give a brief history on what Happened Bit about the development agreement and then if you have any questions you can ask either Tom Holton or Ryan Swanson representative for Walmart Okay, several months ago city staff met With consultants working for Walmart regarding development of a new Walmart Supercenter on a parcel of land near the southeast corner of Washington Avenue and Taylor Drive The land use approval process was discussed with Walmart consultants Because a proper property was properly zoned the only land use approvals necessary Involved the conditional use permit and architectural review At the same time the land use approval process was discussed A traffic impact analysis was requested by the city due to the developments anticipated impact on the area City staff was very clear That the possibility of the city sharing in the cost of any necessary improvements would be unlikely as The analysis was being completed and reviewed by the Wisconsin Department of Transportation representatives for Walmart submitted a Conditional use application as well as renderings for architectural review Because city staff felt strongly about the need for public improvements based on the magnitude of the development a Condition relating to entering into a development agreement that would address infrastructure improvements was added This issue is coming before the Common Council tonight Strictly due to the improved the public improvements required Based on the traffic impact analysis and addressed in the development agreement before you What I'm gonna talk about is a little bit about the conditional use process itself which took place on July 29th of this year Walmart came in we had a hearing that was noticed to the public As our typical conditional uses for any use throughout the city Whether it's Walmart, whether it's a restaurant, whatever conditional use they always require a public hearing as did Walmart in this case As some of the plan Commission members were here as well as some of the staff that was here was It was kind of interesting because there was There wasn't a lot of people at the meeting, but it was definitely noticed Obviously staff the plan Commission had lots of concerns as far as public improvements conditions with the Walmart in just in general And as part of that we had actually drafted 23 conditions of approval that Walmart was to meet I don't know how in depth you would like me to go if you want me to read through each of them I guess I would ask the committee for direction that way But if you want I could read through those conditions or just highlight some of the More important ones, but obviously the most important one that we felt as a staff was the developers agreement which deals with all the public improvements the traffic the water sewer what have you and Once we got to an agreement with Walmart the only people who can approve a developers agreement are you? So that's why we're here this evening is to make sure that we've covered our basis in terms of covering all those traffic impacts all The water sewer issues things like that that need to be addressed and therefore the we feel as a staff that the agreement that has been developed Covers the issues that the plan Commission had dealt with as well as the concerns that staff had about the development in general So I don't know if there's anything specific that you would ask of me or if you'd like me to read those conditions, but Please let me know Yes Concerns at the staff work. Yeah concerns of the staff or traffic And a lot a lot of the concerns had to deal with the the site itself in terms of Lot a lot of times these Walmart super centers and things like that have trailers that just stay in the parking lot Some of the conditions that we're dealing with that was you know You're not gonna have any of the trailers just parked out there if they're not Unless of course if they're coming in and they're just getting rid of their stuff and things like that But you can't store them out there constantly in the parking lot There was discussion on the RVs RVs Walmart has a Policy of allowing RVs to use the parking lots that was discussed and indicated that we shouldn't have that many Many of the uses were again the aspect of the outdoor storage and things like that where you see the snowblowers the garden centers things like that Making sure those things were interior making sure all areas that were going to be used for storage were paved If they're not going to be used for storage that they're landscaped in some type of fashion Vision obviously vision is always critical at the ingress egress points that we're not creating any Issues there in terms of signage so that we're creating any traffic hazards Forklifts and things like that that are going to be used for the building that those are all kept on the inside So we are very concerned about the type of storage and things that we're going to learn out there But I think the biggest concern again was the aspect of a that we wanted a developers agreement for the public improvements That we're going to be required and that no building permit should be issued until that time so right now until this Until it was important from the plan commission's perspective that we didn't want to issue a building permit when we didn't have these public Improvement aspects all worked out now we're to the point where we have the public improvements ready In terms of figuring out what needs to be done now it takes this agreement to get us to the point where yes If we come to the agreement that which we believe is a good one that that Walmart would then be able to get their building permit only at such time as the developers agreement was signed I Don't know if that answers a question. If you have any additional Taking care of the rules construction as needed and all that and also flood control that was good to see One of my concerns is beyond that development agreement actually is doing what the existing Walmart store What are the plans for that store? Are they gonna market it things like that so maybe that's a little further on in the discussion here We can address that if you're not prepared for that. Yeah, actually, I don't know I would probably actually refer that to mr. Swanson to see what input he would have from Walmart themselves at this point in time But as far as part of this discussion We are focused strictly on the public improvements for this and that aspect was not addressed as part of this agreement Okay Sheboygan county slash Sheboygan support three super stores being the one at limit 13 miles away One on the south side and one on the north side of Sheboygan. We have no access from the east whatsoever We only have west north and south. Are we able to support those three superstores? Again, I would refer refer that to Walmart but I would say the answer from a staff perspective is when an applicant comes in with an application for a use such as a Retail use or whatever in a particular area of town. That's what we're going to take a look at is First of all is the use permitted or conditionally permitted in the zone that they're talking about and secondly What are the impacts of that proposed use? that's what we as a staff take a look at every time we have a conditional use come in as far as Whether or not something can be supported Basically again, I would let that applicant deal with that And I think it would come down to how the market drives it and how they feel if they're going to be successful or not And I guess if I would speak for Walmart, and I'm not don't want to do that But I'm thinking they made the termination that yeah, they could be successful Okay, another question And this is probably a city attorney question If the council would turn down these highway improvements Could Walmart still be built would you like me to give my two cents? I Would say what we have here is an agreement That I think first of all that the council needs to be aware. There are existing issues out there All right, there's existing issues from the development. That's occurred right now Acuity the business park things like that In a way Walmart has agreed to do some things with us to help with some of those existing besides what they have In terms of their impact, so it's it's something that you know Right now the plant commission has approved the use So what it would come down to and yeah, I'd have to I'd have to work with Steve a little bit on this one, but There would be some questions as far as Having your body who approves these Conditional uses saying yes and then get to the improvement standpoint and then say no yeah, I understand I read the entire agreement end-to-end and they're also willing to add on to the Retention pond et cetera and needless to say I mean it all sounds fine and dandy But I don't think we're going to support three moments. I'm very honest Anybody else got any questions for Steve one There's a city have a Good or authority over how that building that's going to remain baby That's going to be maintained. I agree with all the work. What is it that they have in fact? That's a very key business very that little shopping center that they're going to pull out people out of The a huge negative impact Concerned for the citizens the business people do we have any say so Any guidance to maybe how we can help the Rerocation and the maintenance of our buildings that continues, but doesn't become an eyesore There's no question that our Staves are always concerned about issues like that because yeah, it's going to leave a vacant space in a very highly used retail area We're going to encourage and support people and any any questions that we would field would be hey We have something that's open here. I'm I can't answer for Walmart again and I'd look forward to hear what their response is to that but the only thing as far and Paula if you have anything to add here is just be the aspect of Making people aware of a space of that size. That's available I don't think I can tell you oh we can do this We can do that to to make someone go in there But we certainly can make people aware of it and do whatever we can to encourage people to get there And and and that's I don't know if there's anything really to add to that Think and that was one of the first questions that we asked was what was going to happen to the building That you're going to vacate is that going to go dark and underutilized and what we were told was that and Ryan could speak to This too is that typically you know they market those buildings They don't want to see it sit there and they're making some kind of a lease payment to you know Either they own it or they lease it and they try to turn it over and like Steve said we typically do that with any vacant Building in the city as we we try to move them along also for developers because it doesn't help the city to have vacant buildings And then also That's true. I mean it has to meet the proper zoning and also They have to meet the building code and so if the building becomes deteriorated. Well, then we have a method to Make sure that it doesn't Supercenter just doesn't fit that way through the plan commission or anything but I'd like to see a plan to market that come along that building and you know, I don't want to see turn into a Blighted area where they have the century building sitting over there, which is Problematic but they're paying their taxes and Walmart would have to maintain the outside of the building according to city standards If they get letters and everything else Hopefully they would do that but there are other businesses in that shopping center that are impacted by Going out and I think it's important to the city that they Come together with something that would address. I mean right now. They're a major anchor We generate a lot of traffic and a lot of customers for that that mall area Thank you, yeah, as long as you're standing there again You use the phrase city cost Unlikely That the many cost of the city unlikely. Do we have more positive term than unlikely? That was the initial discussion that we had With Ryan Swanson and other representatives was that you know, the chances were slim that the city would be Stepping forward and paying for these public improvements and then subsequently they've stepped up to the table and said they would pay for those costs okay, so Unlikely means there's still a chance, but can they positively say that we won't have to pay for their roads and they're There the things they need to make a profit that we won't subsidize that. Yes That's what's addressed in the in the development agreement. Okay, the unlikely made me unlikely was that initial discussion that we were up front with them Okay Steve have you got me? Thank You mr. Chairman I guess I'd start out by saying what What came to me was the issue of? It's condition number 22 in the conditional use permit It says a developers agreement for all required public improvements shall be executed prior to the city issuing a building permit I had discussions with Walmart's outside council from Michigan and and I think we had a couple of telephone conference calls with Mr. Swanson was included in one that I participated in I know and Started out the basic understanding from the beginning was that We were going to look to Walmart to be responsible for the cost and What I was presented with originally was alluded to earlier. There was a traffic study being undertaken and I was then provided with the laundry list of road improvements that needed to be done and those of you that were at the Public Works Committee saw and what came in originally to council was the initial version that just just addressed the road improvements And those are if everyone has copies of the agreement those are the first part of exhibit C those are the list that I Believe the DOT concurred in and everything there's a Listed September 29 2004 scope of off-site improvements that page and then the top of the the next page is what originally came in and was what Was discussed at Public Works Committee Subsequently, I got a phone call from the water utility saying that They had reviewed the plans that from the water utility standpoint and had made some comments back to Walmart's design people and they really hadn't heard back and So that got me to thinking well. There are other Other improvements here. We're talking about the other city improvements that in looking at the Conditional use permit had talked about all required public improvements that To me was a broader phrase than just roads So I felt it was important to include everything that we were asking for all public improvements And we're we're just talking about Public improvements here not what Walmart has to do on their site for their facility parking lots and and all that so I'd contact with the water utility and engineering and planning department and What was added then was the the bottom part of the second page of exhibit C the green wing drive road improvements and The exhibit D the other public improvements includes all the stormwater items sanitary sewer and water mean and You note at the bottom of exhibit D It says all the above to be constructed in accordance with final approved construction and utility plans because to my knowledge Those plans aren't all fully complete at this time, but it includes a quite an extensive list of public improvements that Walmart has Has agreed to pick up the tab for the the gist of the agreement is that They pay for all the improvements They are eligible for a an occupancy permit when they're substantially completed with the improvements Provided that if there are a few minor things still remaining Typically, it would be like landscaping if they're you know ready to open and it's it's not appropriate time to be putting in the landscaping that they will Provide a letter of credit in the amount of the the balance of the public improvements to be completed and They'll complete those improvements and within 60 days and if they don't we can take that letter of credit and Use that to do the improvements to finish them up ourselves if we come up short on that letter of credit They agree to reimburse us for whatever additional costs there are if you know on our submittal of a bill within 30 days so In my view Walmart has done Everything we've asked them to do I don't I can't see what more They could do from the standpoint of what they've been asked to do with respect to agreeing to To pay for The the public improvements that are required. I think there was a question earlier about if we didn't do the road improvements You know what would happen. I don't think we would And I don't know that the state would either allow Walmart to open up without those street improvements the all the additional things with The lanes off of the interstate lanes onto the interstate turning lanes and things like that we've got a great opportunity to Have a lot of that stuff funded by Walmart the Figure I saw on the paper. I don't know if it's accurate or not Maybe mr. Swanson can address this but it's a million and a half dollars worth of improvements. I'm not sure if that includes Things besides the roads or if that's included in there, but it's In my 17 years of a city attorney I'm not aware of any other Builder or store owner who's gone to this point in Their willingness to agree to pay for all these improvements that are basically public. They're not they're not Walmart improvements so Unless there are specific questions about the agreement or any other questions about anything related to the Walmart project Oh, that's all I've got Thank you, mr. Chairman. So basically Steve if we if we both know this we're actually saying no to what we're asking And it's not gonna prohibit Walmart from building there and it's still be they could still ask us to make those improvements And we might have to accommodate at our own expense Well, certainly in my view if we if the council votes no and certainly can do that Voting no from based on what we've asked them to do I Don't see the benefit to doing that. I guess I would raise concern From the city side as to whether we've dealt with Walmart and good faith if we Asked them to do all these things we give them Permission to build the store and condition that they Enter into a development agreement with regards to these things give us everything they want we want and then say no We're not gonna let you build the store You know all the a lot of the issues that town should boy gets facing are driven by Things that really aren't an issue here as far as the location of the store and the proximity to residential areas and things Bill, I just wanted to clarify All in the service question. I mean You said yeah, they've done everything we've asked them to do and but if we would vote no, they couldn't build it without our approval You know it's part of like the second part of the question or something. They couldn't do it if we wouldn't know Beyond this obviously well, I think they would have you know an issue that they could raise a legal issue with us as to our Dealing with them and good or bad faith if we were to vote no on this this we've insisted on this as a condition of the conditional use permit and They've given us what we've asked for To vote no, that's In effect you're circumventing the plan commissions grant of the conditional use permit and that's that's really within the purview of the plan Commission I guess I see your logic, but you know staff has done their job with their concerns, you know, they weren't dishonest they weren't you know Plan Commission dealt with it on their issue, you know plan Commission What are they stable sharing part, you know, I mean doesn't mean we're obligated to listen to the plan Commission I think they've all dealt with it fairly and honestly Yes, that doesn't mean that the council has that same feeling it may it may not you know I'm not saying when we're together, but I just I don't know if I'm not aware You know seems to me there's two different issues there, you know if the council says no way to want Doesn't mean they didn't come you know do everything they could do In my mind, you know, I just don't see that you can say it's unfair just because the car Go ahead with it, you know like in the police station We all said let's build a police station beforehand and then now we're working on the specifics of it But the issue here is not whether to build a Walmart or not. It's whether the Whether to prove the development agreement Well Yeah, mr. Swanson, would you like them? I should note too that Attorney Jim Conway is here on behalf of Walmart as well and I don't know if he's got any comments along with mr. Swanson or no Eric did you have a question? I just had a comment actually In in a large degree we did have control over what's going in there when we approve that it's going to be commercial Property in zoning and once we create commercial property zoning if an applicant meets the guidance that we set We really can't restrict who it is If it's super K mark came in and one of the same thing would have an open property on the south side of town Prisker's are in there We would be granting that approval as well as long as they met all the other Guidelines and that that's something that we have control over in terms of zoning But once the guidelines we really can't restrict. I think you create issues of a Discrimination if we start restricting certain people and not restricting other people by ownership or otherwise That's what we have zoning guidelines Anybody else that has a question from now on please use your mic Okay, now mr. Swanson Yeah, again, I'm Ryan Swanson. We're the civil engineers and work with staff early on as Stephen Paul I mentioned on the project. I guess like if I could answer any questions I've heard a few pop up here that I can try to answer at this point My one thing I can address up front was the the old store This store does is intended to replace the current store I can't say with some confidence that efforts have been underway to Market that I cannot tell you exactly the status of that. Unfortunately. I Have some thoughts of that there has been some interest, but I can't tell you exactly so I can say though that the existing store how they how they structure their Operations that store the empty store would be a drain on the new store. So they have it every intent to sell off Their empty property vacant property as soon as possible. So I guess from that perspective The intent is extremely clear that they do want to sell it off and I believe they do own that store currently It's not a lease situation Mr. Chairman I'd like to know it does The city do we have a requirement that they have to have that store bought and leased or anything in a certain amount of time or they can just lay dormant as long as they want to Once they if they by chance would move to the south side They have the right to leave that store dormant as long as they wanted to or does like I said does the city have a Timeline with that they have to have that Aldermen's a galley from a legal standpoint if they own the store they can do what They want with it They've got to pay their taxes. They've got to maintain it so that it is in conformance with our Building codes so it couldn't deteriorate and become a nuisance But there's there's nothing that we can require that They have to do something with it if they they choose not to as Mr. Swanson said I'm not aware whether they own the building or lease it but assuming they own it They do have a big financial incentive to to sell it and get Get somebody else in there One of my main concerns is that that store lay dormant And all those other businesses around there that are run by Local people and our owned by local people will start to deteriorate also because there's no activity in there And what like you said Walmart bought a lot of activity was good for the senior centers senior citizens and the whole bit get Them there now is that if that starts to deteriorate then what do we have? We don't have anything at Taylor Heights anymore, and that's not that's not Right for the people that are working very hard to keep their businesses up in that area You've got Pigley wiggly. You've got Sally's you've got a you got the battery shop You have all of these that probably have based a lot of their livelihood on Walmart now Walmart's going to pull out Well, that's an economic decision that Walmart makes they're not pulling out of town that you know Actually, they're they're adding to new stores Because they think this is a good place to do business obviously, but you've got the Sentry store That's dark right now. Now. It's my understanding that the century's got a long-term lease in there and they're making lease payments They don't own the building they have to make lease payments and and the landlord as long as they're getting the lease payments While I'm sure they've had the property on the market Doesn't have a tremendous incentive to sell if they're getting the lease payments from Sentry But you got the same issue and in that location, but that building stands by itself There isn't other businesses Around that empty building right now where there is going to be at Walmart And I'm a firm believer that we support our local businesses who own and operate those businesses well, there's only so much control the city has City Council has on on the economics and Who's in and out of stores? I mean it happens all the time people close one place and move to another That's The economics of the marketplace. I would you know based on what you're saying That would bode well for someone else going in there because it is a high-traffic area. It's got great visibility It's in the center of the city And it should be very positive for Future reuse of that building. I would think but that you know, I'm I'm a lawyer I'm not an economist or or a business person. So but that isn't our building to sell or to lease out It's Walmart, right Do you have anything more to say Mr. Swanson? I guess there's any other questions I can address directly Yeah, there's been some confusion in the paper and stuff how many people is are gonna work at this Walmart Supercenter I mean roughly have you this is a this is one of the bigger actually the biggest store they have and I think the total number is Approximately 400 Okay, and then how many work at the current one now that won't be there anymore. This is just a guess but probably 250 it's a good size store there so we're adding a hundred fifty I guess for the public out there. That's not a work Could you kind of highlight some of the things that the Walmart Supercenter does that the Walmart doesn't? Currently the biggest thing would probably The expansion I think the current store does have a good Good portion of grocery inside that store if I recall, but it would definitely be an expansion of that first and foremost secondly, they offer Have some internal uses that kind of a bigger spectrum of uses including expanded pharmacy the Limited automotive tire and battery service lube changes so it's basically it just expands on Kind of the commercial uses inside it more of a there's a much more enhanced garden center temporary seasonal garden center, too So it really just takes what they've had what they have at the current store and expands that I Guess the logic behind my question is I share the concerns of both, you know, we've heard before Especially we're having three in such a small area. I mean nobody gets their car oil changed more Because super Walmart's doing it. Nobody buys more laundry detergent or more meat or you know Because you have stores that you might go there and I understand that's economic interest But nobody does it more we consume what we consume, you know, and I'm concerned that Who's gonna want to go into that? I mean I'm trying to think of a Of a retail use that's gonna want to go into the old store Because they're probably gonna be fighting against the super Walmart, you know, or three of them within 15 miles And I guess, you know, it's just it seems to me It's Having one I probably wouldn't even vote for truthfully but having three in that little area to me Just seems like you're gonna crucify a lot of the businesses in the mall area in that area I you know, I just I wrote problem with that and and I want to be clear I think the staff has done everything we asked of them, you know, Tom and And Paulette and Steve, I mean that's not their issue, you know They did a fantastic job of getting everything and I think we have everything we could have asked for as far as improvements, but you look at You know again what I don't know exactly but what the town is negotiating with and they've got future land values in there They've got all these other things and it seems to me like all of a sudden This one's more important because we want to get this one done because maybe in my mind I'm thinking maybe the town's gonna end up with a better deal than we got because they're talking about, you know I mean if again, I don't know what that how serious the Walmart people are negotiating it But certainly the residents who want it are talking about, you know, what if their future land values go down? Oh, what about this? What about this? They've got a whole litany of things Whereas we don't have that many issues and it might be I don't know why we benefit in moving first in that issue Okay, I Don't know what you know, it doesn't it to me It just seems like we're devastating that area and they we've done everything to fix this area I 100% agree with that but what's the value of having an empty blighted, you know area over there We've had stores at the mall half the mall was empty for months. We've had, you know, other areas a century Okay, you know, we know there's probably a couple reasons why nobody's been there, but I Just think that whole area town is gonna be you know, especially the fact I don't think it'd be quite as bad if we you know, say it doesn't they don't build in the town Well, then that's still the north side Anchor and some people might not go all the way to you know the super Walmart every time But otherwise, you know, you're just killing local businesses and then and won't get me wrong You know that that's where Walmart wants to do that I just don't think that that's I have to vote for it because of that because they've paid for all the You know brick and mortar improvements they have but I don't think you know They haven't shown me that they're gonna do anything to the existing businesses other than drive them out and kill them You know, we've got a a base here of you know, the fresh brands and show sabers been here forever It's this is their base. They've got Pigley Wiggly stores all over this area and you know We're crucifying them if we have three Walmart's in 12 miles And I guess I have a real concern with that and again, I think staff did everything we can ask them to do as far as You know taking care of the cost of adding this new one But I just think there's other costs that aren't figured in the brick and mortar that I won't be supporting this and I can't you know Unless there's some type of Agreement that you know, I trust is that our involvement Thank you, your honor the question was not answered can Shibuigan County the city of Shibuigan and Anywhere else support three super stores within this 13 mile radius We have no access from the east. I asked us before it wasn't answered now. You can answer it Can we support them? Yes According to Walmart's data the marketing data they believe this area can support Three stores and I I say three assuming the north store would be built which is an assumption at this point as well as the adding the Plymouth store in there I'm not privy to that marketing information But you know, they've looked at the trade areas where people are coming from credit card data They've looked at anticipated growth of the community and they've decided that For this area, that's what they're proposing at this point. It are the three One more question and I know that really it's not your responsibility to answer this but I will ask it what type of Pay and benefits will these employees get at this store? You don't have to answer if you feel that you don't need to I guess I'm not kind of the same with the marketing I'm not privy to that it would be consistent with I'm assuming consistent with the current store and the policies of that of that store in general Our men better really. Thank you I mean we can push Walmart out of the city and make us so there's no Walmart here And then they'll just go out of the city and the tax base will go somewhere else and we'll lose that tax base I mean if that's what this council wants we can do it, but my question is It's not clear. Is it just gonna be a super Walmart or is it gonna be like a strip mall concept? It's strictly for this site It's just we're just proposing The Supercenter there's really not any additional land for like out parcels like say across the interstate at the Target Home Depot It's not it's not that big And frankly the Supercenter fits on the site quite well, but that's it Every other piece of the property is really taken up with green space Parking things like that. So right now. That's all we're talking about To add to that though one thing the study did look at was a substantial area both commercial future commercial development and Additional industrial development to the south of the site. So I Think we've we've considered that the traffic study that this area could expand even further than just just the Supercenter I Agree that that any Development we do need to look at social costs with that in terms of employment and union jobs versus non-union jobs family businesses can we forward to Have more than one Supercenter or not as I made a comment in the paper that I you know No offense the business by him, but I have friends that will work at Fresh Brands and I'll continue to shop at Pigley Wigley I won't shop at Walmart because of that, you know, I understand my I can vote with my dollar my business decision to keep going with Pigley Wigley versus Walmart But as Alderman Vander wheel said They don't have to build in the city of Shipwagon and we would still will have an empty lot And we still will have small businesses family run businesses up at Taylor Heights that are impacted when they move out They can go to the town of Wilson if they want Just across the way they could go on the west side of I-43 closer to the Kohler plant the Kohler Development and deer trace and then we do not get those dollars that we currently would get right now From the one whoever does fill in the current existing Walmart store and to the new developments that we get the new Additional tax base and the third part of that is if even if they build elsewhere outside of the city of Shipwagon The city will still have to pay for all this traffic improvements as well as other improvements with the water and what and sewer and what have you And without any guarantee that anybody else will make us the same deal that Walmart currently is offering us right now Any development that's going to go in there Walmart or otherwise, which will happen because it is zone commercial They may not come in and offer us to build additional Green Wing pond You know I think You know we can analyze the type of business I urge people to vote with their dollars if they disagree with the type of business It is but obviously people currently vote with their dollars to support Walmart by the amount of traffic that are getting up there and You know hope for their sake in terms of business that will continue otherwise We only end up with something empty but In terms of the decision we have to make today is do we have them pay for these improvements? Do we pay for them ourselves? Do we add additional tax revenue tax base to our our city or do we let? The towns continue to take away our ability to expand so I will support for this But like I said I will continue to support local businesses as well Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I too will be supporting the resolution to allow this to go forward. I think As Silas stated in and and Eric stated it is important that we keep Walmart in the city We don't know that there's gonna be a third Walmart That's an issue. They have to work out in me or may not happen It's not a guaranteed thing on the town I know the town has its concerns and they'll have to deal with that as a town We have to think about the city overall Walmart's if they if they do leave the city completely We end up with nothing might do have a concern about Taylor Heights I want to make sure that billing gets marketed and I hope our staff works on it But I think putting a supercenter in the business park is the best place you could put it That the the roads and everything that they're gonna be putting in there is gonna be a positive for all the businesses down there Yes, they're gonna have an impact on our businesses. We know that they're a larger store They have great sales All kinds of things that that make people want to go to Walmart are there. They're gonna exist in this supercenter I like those people come to Sheboygan. I want to see them come to Sheboygan. I want to see them shop on Sheboygan Property city Sheboygan property. They're gonna spill over into other things. There'll be other developments around there that are Positives on the end of Walmart There's gonna be other buildings and restaurants and things that are going out there in that area Surrounding there that will get positive impacts from Walmart. Yes, Taylor Heights is a concern And I will look I want to see that market. I have no a lot of people that over there. We go to Taylor Heights a lot So I have that concern but for the best interest of the city in the long term That is the best place for it. Frankly. I hope it doesn't work out in the town of Sheboygan And it does work out in the city Sheboygan. It belongs there. It's almost a perfect fit There's no homes around there that are gonna be impacted. No residents It's industrial area There's an on and off ramp that'll take The major traffic that we would be concerned about if it was put somewhere else in the city right there It's they're not gonna be driving all the down Taylor Drive to get there except for people that live in the city Most people would take I-43 to get there quicker. I think all in all it's a win situation for the city I do still have a concern about Taylor Heights. I'd like to make sure that they might get that we can't tie that to this It's a different different issue, but I think we can work through that with our planning staff and And hopefully that happens. I will be supporting it Person modern air Thank you Alderman Berg. I Pretty much agree with Alderman Rindfleisch I will support it if I were living in the town and representing the town There's no way I would support it because so many people feel against it. However, I will support this I personally won't shop there I've not spent a dollar in Walmart yet in my life and I won't but I will vote for you to go down the south side If there's no more questions for mr. Swanson Warner I just just one thing mr. Chairman. I'd like to say, you know, you have to get to the if you have a concern about Walmart and Supercenter Shop at some of your local stores more often Don't just go to Walmart and I'm saying that to everyone in the public I go to Trilling Hardware as often as I can sometimes I forget to go there. I automatically go somewhere else. Menards or wherever But get into Trilling Hardware when that flyer comes out or any other time You can support your local businesses that way and and do that as often as you can I guess I just hope we can have the option to go to Trilling Value in 15 to 20 years Is I'm concerned and I guess, you know, I agree with a lot of what's been said But I think the major concern of even everybody who's forwarder against it is the fact You know, there's two new ones and there's one implement I mean if we would wait and find out what happens in the town And it doesn't end up getting built there and they build one in Sheboygan. I think, you know The industry could handle that a lot better, you know, I mean sure we can say well Yeah, it's gonna otherwise it's gonna be the town of Wilson Does anybody really think the town of Wilson won Super Walmart there? Township wagon doesn't want him to tell Wilson's even more rural than the town of Sheboygan is, you know So you can say that and it's kind of like a nice way of putting it off saying we've got to have it But I just don't think in the long run. It's a benefit to our people and I won't be supporting it Since we can pretty much talk as much as we want I Guess because we're having a discussion I guess, you know, I look back when I was a kid It was Benzman's Market. It was Grocer's Market on Ghillie Avenue on 8th Street, Benzman's on Michigan Avenue There was one on 20th and Seaman Avenue, Benzman's Supermarket, all little supermarkets And along came Park and Shop and Piggly Wiggly and they built a little bit bigger supermarket stores You know, I came back from California in 73 and And saw some of the changes and we started shopping at Park and Shop Northgate And that and eventually that turned into Park and Save on Corps Memorial Drive and all through all those things all these supermarkets put out all the little mom and pop stores Out of business basically because people could get everything they wanted there. They had lower prices and And that changed everything now the bigger stores are coming in and they're kind of having an impact on our smaller grocery stores You see Park and Shop is no longer there became Park and Save and and the rents sold it and became roundies pick and save now and That's just a natural progression. But what you do see you see all the little Oriental grocery stores popping up the little Mexican Grocery stores and things popping up specialty stores and they're making a good business out of those and I think there's a cyclical thing Here that's going to go around and around again But at this time I think this probably isn't the best interest of the city so And for myself, I would say I will definitely support this Resolution tonight because we shouldn't worry about what's going on in the town of Sheboygan right now with the Walmart Worry about Sheboygan. This is what we have to think about Sheboygan Town of Sheboygan will take care of himself Okay You had just a final question to the real question at hand today or It's the real question question is do we accept the the development plan which is for Walmart to pay for all the improvements down there? Once again, those improvements are gonna have to be made and if you want against this I hope you have a good explanation your taxpayers of why you're gonna ask them to pay for that instead of having a Completely private enterprise donate that money to us Okay, they're seeing no more lights. I will entertain a motion. Oh I'm sorry Attorney Conway very quickly My name is Jim Conway Walmart got a hold of me last week They asked if I could just be here this evening so that they would know exactly what's going on from an attorney's perspective I assured them that this was not going to be an adversarial matter I assured them that this was not a hearing about whether or not there should be a Walmart Because the permits already been issued and it's just a matter of implementing the development agreement and your city Attorney just told you that this is not a hearing about whether or not there should be a Walmart This is not a hearing about whether or not Walmart can close their existing store This is a hearing about whether or not Walmart is prepared to meet the development agreement Your city attorney. I probably didn't need to be here tonight because he's explained this to you better than I can And he stood here and told you this is the best deal he's seen I think Steve you said in 27 years 17 17 years I'm not trying to age you any more than that 17 years. I better change my notes. Sorry about that But 17 years of experience with the city best deal he's seen so Walmart people have done everything that's been asked of them They've worked with your your engineering office with your development office They've acted in complete good faith and they're ready to carry out their part of the bargain. Thank you. Thank you, Jim Okay, now I'll entertain a motion on Resolution 1 21 0 4 0 5 Alderman Warner I'd move for passage Mosher was made And second it on resolution 1 21 any questions Steve To make clear for Clarify I would suggest that the resolution, you know before you act on it be amended In two places to strike out roadway. It's in the caption and also in the be it resolved Currently it talks about concerning certain required public roadway improvements, so I would suggest Amending it to delete the reference to roadway Okay, then we will take a vote on resolution 21 as amended Okay, all in favor much you take a roll on it, okay, we'll take a roll call vote on the amendment The amendment is to strike out the word Montemay or I press Rindflash Segali, no Stefan Hi Dan Akron. Hi Vanderbilt Warner. All right 11 eyes to know that's on the amendment. Okay Amendments out of the way now. We will go to Resolution 121 0 4 0 5 as amended Burr hi Surtain Manny Montemay or I press Rindflash Segali, no Stefan, no Van Akron. Hi Vanderbilt. Hi Warner And Bob And three notes and three okay Motion to adjourn Motion to adjourn Second it all in favor we are adjourned