 failure. Breaking news for you now. There are reports. Victoria police have arrested Erin Patterson, the woman at the center of the investigation into the fatal poisonous mushroom meal that resulted in three deaths. It's a tragedy what's happened. Eye blocking with the fingers right from moment one. Eyelids go down. Shading of the head. So she's trying to hide herself. Well, yeah, you know, she has been, you know, ambushed, how we say so. There may be some reasoning for that. We get her checking for tears or is she checking that, you know, her mascara isn't running? Maybe. I don't know. But whatever it is, there's an obsession with how she might look or what the physical appearance is doing around the eyes. That's that I wouldn't expect to see for somebody who's in a devastated state. When you're devastated, you're not too worried about the impression that you're making. She says, I'm so devastated. I didn't have my mom passed away. Good and kind to me. Anything wrong to me. My own children. So there's a huge focus in her language. The ego meter, shall we say, has moved to the eye, to the me, not to they, them, there. It's all I, me, mine. Well, that's unusual, I would say. Not what I would expect for somebody who is truly devastated. So I'm already cautious around what's going on here. Certainly excited to see more. If you've taken to crime workshop, you'll know exactly what you're seeing here. This woman is insulating herself from, from these people by crying so much that she can't even talk. She can't even engage with them because she's so emotionally distraught here. So the more asked questions they ask the further away she gets and they can't, they can't get to her. The fake cry is pretty bad. And when somebody's crying for real, they make these almost guttural sounds from the diaphragm. And that's not what we're hearing here. There's nothing, you know, erupting from, from the diaphragm. It's all chest up. It's all coming from the chest. The breathing is under control. There's no that deep gasping that you hear a lot of times when someone's been crying real hard or they're feeling true grief as she would be in this situation, I would assume, especially this, it's not very long afterwards that this happened, that she's being asked these questions that she got ambushed the house. So we're not seeing or hearing those things when it comes to true grief. Now she's wiping her eyes. And it's such a horrible attempt to show that she's feeling grief, that she's grieving because it's, it's, there's nothing there. I don't, I mean, I'm not so far I haven't seen real tears or any tears at all. And we're not seeing that frontalis engagement like we should have no quote unquote grief muscle. Nothing happened in there. It's, it's, it's minimal to zero. Again, no deep breaths. They're all, they're all just these quick little things from the chest. And when she said, the guy asked, can you tell us about the meal you cooked? Can you tell us about the meal that you cooked? That's kind of devastated by what's happened. She doesn't even get near it. She doesn't say anything about it. She starts talking about, about how it's a tragedy what happened. And then it would talk about her children and her friends and everything, everything about what she was going to feed them. She talks about how it was her grandmother. Apparently she's divorced and these are her X in-laws. Now my wife's the PI and she's also a mushroom expert. So when this came up, she's like, first time she ever said, you guys doing this, I said, I'm sure we will be. And she went on to explain the mushroom, which is called the death cap that this woman, that was, that she accidentally put in their food. And what did she, what did she make Mark? Yeah, what, what did she make? She made, she made beef Wellington, which is incredibly complex to do. She'd been using the mushrooms in, in what's called the deluxe part of it is beautiful part of the beef Wellington. The beef Wellington, by the way, is a labor of love. You only make beef Wellington because you love people. That, you know, so yeah, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? But yeah, she made the Wellington Scott. So the, and Amber also told me that the scientific name for this or the technical name for it is the Amanita Philides. I think I pronounced that right. She said, what's your pronunciation because mushroom people will get on you. So I don't know if I'm saying it correctly or not, but I think that's what she, she pronounced or said to pronounce it. It might be Amanita. I'm not sure. So anyway, if mushroom people go, give me a break. I don't know. I'm not, not into the whole thing. I don't know how to pronounce all those. But apparently she said, these things take a few days to kill you sometimes, most of the time. And what happens is they go into your organs and they start shutting things down. And it's really painful and it's a horrible thing to go through. But as you go through this, after the first couple of days, you feel like, Hey, I'm coming around. Things start looking good. But not long after that, you head right for the squatter. A lot of the time, not everybody dies from this, but it's, it's a horrible poisoning situation. So if you think you've been poisoned by these things, you got to get to the doctor quick or get to the hospital quick. Devastated by what's happened, by the loss of Donning, Donning still in hospital, the loss of Anne and Heather. Now, I think what's happened, this woman is talking about the people who were killed so far. And she names one guy, Ian, who she says was dead. And I think he's the preacher or the priest. And he's not, he wasn't dead at the time of this. She got those names wrong. So I think if I were her, I'd pretty much know who was alive or who wasn't alive. And I'd be counting and praying because, especially now, because the longer it goes on, the more that died, the more trouble she would be in if she did this. Can you tell us about the meal that you cooked? So they ask her, can you tell us about the meal we cooked? Scott, you covered this. And she just launches into, I was devastated, blah, blah, blah. This is classic avoidance. And here's the science behind that. When someone has an internal desire to protect information or guilt, the limbic system overrides their logic, which it can do any time that it wants to. They can just take over your brain. In this case, she's unable to answer because there's so much fear around the subject of the lunch. She's unable to understand that a reasonable person would both understand and respond to the question. And her fear overrides this rational thinking and defaults to concealment. When it comes to her tears, she takes her glasses off, I think, so maybe that they might be more visible. I could be wrong. Then she checks for tears or makeup, like you said, Mark. And I don't see any coming. But then she's nodding while she's saying the victim's names. Don't instill in hospital bills of Anne and Heather and Gail. Like this person, and then this person, and then this person. Like you're trying to, when you're a kid, trying to recite the alphabet. This is the behavior of somebody trying hard to remember a list. Like when I was taking final exams in like radiology, and I'd be in my head going like pica, posterior, inferior, cerebellar, artery, and like trying to do this, I'd be nodding my head during the exam. That's the same thing we're seeing here. The most giant red flag of all to me is they've never done anything wrong to me, which in her mind might mean if they had done something wrong, then I would maybe do something. This is all our opinion, though. When I heard this come out, I got a cold chill this morning. I could spend an hour on this clip here and not cover everything. I think all of us could. And this one's going down in the history books. There's so many clusters here. Let's talk for a minute about crying. I was on a plane with a kid yesterday. The kid cried out loud over things they had a reason to cry about, like the engine and that kind of stuff. And that's a passionate airy lots of crying, all that wailing that kids do. The minute it became a manipulative cry, the cadence changed, and there's no more broken breathing that went with it. So people use crying in some ways. If you're crying out of emotion, there's often rapid heartbeat, lots of respiration, and it's a broken kind of a sound. That's when it is caused by crying. That broken voice is caused that way. When the fracture in the voice isn't crying, but it's trying to control emotion, then it comes in waves. You try to control, it loosens up, and it comes in waves. Either one of those is really genuine crying. I'm either trying to control the crying or I have broken breathing. Neither is going on here. I'm so devastated about what's happened. And the loss to the community and to the families. This is too rhythmic and it almost sounds Scott like you're loping that you usually talk about, like it's intended. There's no attempt. A couple of things just to point out. The tear check looks like she's lost passion for the crying. She's doing something. There is no sorrow in her brow tips. None. No grief. We talk about the grief muscle, but there's no sorrow in her brow tips. Sorrow is a different thing. That's why we don't believe her. Now let's also say we can't tell intent, even if she did, in fact, poison these people, which it appears she did, was intentional. We can't tell that by watching body language. We can only say, I don't see sorrow. I don't see this. I don't see that. And that's what we're going to have to go with because this is all going to be our opinions of what we're seeing based on how this woman is interacting in a four minute video. But there's a whole lot of clusters here. There's a whole lot of crying that's not real. There's no fracture in the voice. There's no respiration causing the cry. This feels like that same little kid on the plane went wha, wha, wha until they got what they're after. I don't trust the crying. I don't trust the tears. Let's wait and see if she does better. It's a tragedy. What's happened? Can you tell us about the meal that you caused? I'm so devastated by what's happened by the loss of Donnie, Donnie's still in hospital. The loss of Ian and Heather and Gail. They were some of the best people that I've ever met. Gail was like, Gail was the mum that I shouldn't have because my mum passed away four years ago. And Gail's never been anything but good and kind to me. And Ian and Heather were some of the best people I've ever met. They never did anything wrong to me and I'm so devastated about what's happened. And the loss to the community and to the families and to my own children who've lost their grandmother. Can you tell us a bit more about the lunch? What I can tell you is that I just can't fathom what has happened. All we're seeing here is a lot more limbic system of our brain defaulting to concealment. It's reversed directly back to the same rehearsal lines that look like they were practiced in a mirror almost. And the vocal lilting here you're hearing is forced lilting, this kind of vocal fluctuation. When in a person who's really crying, it would be a physiological response, an automatic physiological response because the person needs to breathe. So there's lung fluctuations that are going on when someone's crying. She's heard this sound from people crying before and assumes this is probably a subconscious process, assumes that the sound alone is what's required to make people think you're crying. In reality, you'll see physiological evidence that someone's crying with heaving and breathing irregularly. And when you hear this sound, that's going to be apparent in someone who's crying. And it would be so obvious that you could see it at about 100 meters away since we're in Australia here. A non-guilty person is going to be open to talk about the food. It would be the center of the discussion. They would talk openly about their feelings of guilt or shame, even more openly about how they feel about potentially causing this would be a person who didn't plan it. Like, I feel so awful, I hope it wasn't the food. It would be a center point of the discussion. So like I say in many of our videos, every time you're in doubt, just go back and look for what's being hidden, concealed or not talked about. And you'll see something, you'll see a story there that everybody's got to tell. Can you tell us a bit more about the lunch? One more time, she's asked about the lunch and she goes right back into Chaff and redirect and she gets as far away from that as she possibly can. She's going straight to not understanding what's happening. Can't fathom what has happened. I just can't fathom what has happened. And then she says, all I can tell you is... What I can tell you? Because that's probably all she can tell them because she can't tell them much more. There's not much more to tell. If she says much more, she may tell it herself by accident. That's my opinion anyway. Then she stands there like an actor in a horrible, horrible play from like the fourth grade or something. It's just so bad. I don't know who she's looking at or where she's looking or anything. Her eyes are closed. The whole thing is just a really bad show. And you're right. I think it's a rehearsed answer. I think she was ready. And her... I don't think she's the smartest person in the world, have no idea. But I think she's rehearsed this answer in her own way up in her head. And she's delivering it. It's not going the way she thought it would go. I think she was... She thought when someone asked her, I don't think she expected this. But I think she thought when she was asked the questions about this, she'd be able just to deliver with this fake cry and it would sell and they would buy it. That's how it looks to me. So she just keeps distancing with that, I'm devastated thing. And I think she just looks like a little kid who's been busted for doing something she shouldn't have done. And it really doesn't bother. But she's faking her way through it. That's what it looks like to me. Look, just as I studied molecular gastronomy at Harvard, let's talk about beef Wellington. And it is a job to put beef Wellington together. So Chase, to your point of if somebody says, hey, tell us about dinner. If you've made beef Wellington and you are innocent, you're going to go, I made beef Wellington. That's how much I love these people because that's got to be minimum a whole day, probably two days of preparation, which means you can plan, you can prepare and you're going to take care of the ingredient throughout that because this is a real situation you've got yourself into. You're probably not going to make one. You're probably going to make two of these things because you've got a lot of people around and people are going to want more of that. So that she avoids talking about the lunch completely. That is totally off base for somebody who loves to cook, which clearly she does because you only make beef Wellington if you love doing that and you love entertaining. So this why for me that she avoids that is you know, totally off kilter. How long does it take to make that for real? Like an hours wise? Well, I mean, in terms of like, you got to let it rest in the fridge at various different stages to get it really nice and tight. Yeah, you've got to if you're going to do it, you're going to sous vide the meat, which because you're looking for exactly the right brownie and motion through the meat. By the way, that equation for the brownie and motion is an Einstein equation. So if you're ever thinking, what did Einstein ever do for me? Well, he made it possible for us to be able to calculate exactly how long it will take and exactly what heat will be required to perfectly cook your steak or that, you know, that, that medallion of beef inside the beef, the beef Wellington. So it's a massive, it's a massive amount of time. I pray, I pray that he pulls through. She gets into praying, I pray, I pray. So, you know, some other higher entity comes into it. There is no higher entity as far as I'm concerned than the beef Wellington. It's that's an act of, that's an act of, that's a miracle, the beef Wellington. Because my children love him. And then my children love him. So again, bringing in the children rather than saying, I love him, my children love him. It's all off base for me. Let me give her a benefit of a doubt on one thing. Look, if tomorrow you made beef Wellington and you forged mushrooms and you made a mistake and you killed your family, you would also still feel guilt and all the same things we're talking. So let's give her a benefit of a doubt there. What we can see, however, is that we look for red flags. One is not a big deal, but there's no attempt to stop crying. There's no grief or no concern in the brow. There's no sorrow at the brow. If you listen what I can tell you, what I can tell you, that starts off aggressive in tone. And then she changes gears to I can't fathom. I just can't fathom what has happened. That feels awkward. That feels like she wanted to say something else and thought it. And then she does a sudden eye grab and tear check. Her blink rate goes through the roof and we're back to that fractured voice like the little kid. She was talking about same thing. I was talking about the fractured breathing followed by the, if you're trying to control control, then it comes in waves. None of that's there. The same way this little kid was crying. Even at the end, her tone flattens out as she says because, and she don't just say because my children, she again, hesitates, says because my bit and then she changes directions because my children love him. I want to know what those words meant. Maybe it is that she accidentally did this. So she would have some of these same emotions. We can't tell that. We can't tell intent. Did she go out of her way to do this? I did read, however, there was a dehydrator for mushrooms that she ended up throwing away after this. That starts to look suspicious when put with all these red flags. Can you tell us a bit more about the lunch? What I can tell you is that I just can't fathom what has happened. I just can't fathom what has happened. That Ian and Heather have lost their lives and Gail has lost her life and Don is still in hospital and I pray. I pray that he pulls through because my children love him. And you must be pretty shaken up by this as well. I'm devastated. I love them and I can't believe that this has happened. For the first time we get some brow involvement that I'm devastated and cannot believe. Her brows come to a point that's sorrow. We want to see that. Looks like there's actually a tear on her cheek. You guys tell me if I'm right or wrong. It looks like a tear running down her cheek. There's withdrawals at the side of her mouth and now some chin involvement. And because of her stature and because the way she is dressed, you can see her breathing change for the first time. If you just pay attention to a couple of things, look for the emotion in her gates as she starts to leave. Can you tell us where the mushrooms came from? I think she's hurt or angry one or the other because her steps are large. She's plodding a lot more. She's angry at them for pushing her and I think she's angry at them for pushing her to a real tear. I think they actually did get real tears out of her and I think that all that movement is determination and I'll categorize. I usually talk about energy as being high or low. Energy is high. Focus external or internal. External. Direction, sharp or scattered. All sharp. That's determination. She wants out. She's got a target. She's going for that door. I think regardless of why, there's a moment here where she is actually feeling some emotion. Don't know why. Can you tell us where the mushrooms came from? This is where she insulates big time. This is huge. She uses the car to do that. I don't know what she's looking at or who she's looking at during this. Her eyes are closed a lot and I can't believe the next question out of the guy's mouth was, you got to be kidding me, right? He doesn't say that when I was like, that kind of threw me and then we're not seeing a lot of things we should be seeing with grief still. We don't see any grief muscle. We're not seeing any engagement in the forehead. A little teeny bit, not a whole lot and then no engagement of the mentum again. I've said mentum like 40,000 times for some reason in this episode, but that's the front part of the chin where we usually see like the chin boss and some action happening there. Then she totally blows them off by walking around the other side of the car and then having to get her stuff out of the other side. I think she's crying. I think it could be anger, but my thing is I think she's upset because she's real. She's wishing she hadn't done this. I think that's, if there's a real tear there, I think she's crying for herself because she's worried, she's wishing she'd never done this and she knows it's getting bad, especially if the news is there and they're asking you questions. This is a great piece of behavior as far as I'm concerned. Greg, she may well have a tear down the side, but she checks for it in the wrong place and so she goes for the center. The center there realizes I think there's nothing there, then dusts the hands. It's like, oh, I'm done then. I'm out. I'm out. This is not working. I'm off. I think, Scott, she may well be going for a getaway. She may well be going, I'm going to get in my car and drive and then goes, no, that will look terrible. That will look real. If I reverse out of it, that's going to look bad. I think it's either that or her mind is so in that reptilian brain, that there's so much kind of, as we might call it Chase, amygdala hijack going on, that she's forgotten that the shopping is in the back, not in the front with her, or maybe a combination of all of these things. But in the end, she has to go around to the side, grab her shopping, what she got, more mushrooms. I don't know what she's bought. I'm not a shopping bag reader. I'm not a mind reader. There's probably somebody out there. There's probably somebody who can guess what she's got. They think they have some kind of psychic contact with the inside of the contents of the shopping bag. If you have that, I would like to know what you believe is inside that shopping bag. That would be. Wait a minute. Spidey's calling. Hang on. Can you tell him? I want to know. He probably does know. That's the problem. That's very smart. Ask him what card she's thinking of right now. Probably the card from a lawyer. She's thinking of the Joker. Exactly. Anyway, that's all I got. That's all I got on that one. Great piece of behavior. And you must be pretty shaken up with this as well. I think there might be a good chance she's looking up and into the sun here to get some tears going. There's a chance. Take a look at the first 10 seconds and tell me if you also think that this might look like a bad audition tape for a TV commercial. Everything's on display here. She's not making eye contact. She's facing the general direction of the cameras. Her arms are down at her sides like a performance. And she's... It looks like she's forcing the emotion out. And there's actually a lot of reasons you see guilty people overdoing this display like that. And they tend to overdo these displays to be overly convincing because they think they need to do it how they think it should be done. They might use it as a diversion tactic to shift attention away from evidence or like an inconsistency. We have innocence. They might believe that if others see them as victims of their emotions, they'll just be... They couldn't have committed that crime. They're so emotional here. And then committing a murder on its own might create some intense cognitive dissonance, especially if the individual or person sees themselves as a good person. So then they have to do this to make themselves feel better. Fear can pretty often manifest with these severe emotional reactions, which are might be masked as remorse. And that might be what we're seeing here. Murder by itself can be traumatic even for the perpetrator. And that's not something I don't think we've said before. Murder can still be traumatic to the person that did it to Scott's point. Like, I wish I hadn't done this. And finally, what we said earlier, there's expectation of how somebody's supposed to react after a traumatic event. And they try hard to show them all of these emotions as much as they can in a short amount of time. And guilt of people, especially if they're not typically manipulative. This is what I think we're seeing here. If they're not typically manipulative throughout their life or deceptive, they might misjudge how genuine emotions are displayed and then overdo it on accident. So if they're not an expert liar, expert manipulator, they might overdo it because they're not used to doing that. I think those stomps that we're talking about, like around the car, they're at her house. I think they might be territorial, like peaches, like the peaches snort. And you must be pretty shaken up with this as well. I'm devastated. I love them. And I can't believe that this has happened. And I'm so sorry that they have lost their lives. How are you kissing? I just can't believe it. Just can't believe it. Can you tell us where the mushrooms came from? Police say you're a suspect. Do you have anything to say about that? Yes. I say I didn't do anything. I love them. And I'm devastated that they're gone. And I hope with every fight with my being that Don calls through. That's what I have to say. So this statement is less rehearsed than just kind of what she has to say. And it's all I got to say about that. She moves out. She's frustrated. She's moving heavily, but rapidly. I mean, boom, boom, boom, trying to get through. You can see she's frustrated and angry. I don't know whether she picked the wrong mushrooms or did something. But there are a hell of a lot of red flags here to say, if I had picked the wrong mushrooms, I would say, look, I picked the wrong thing. I poisoned my family and I am devastated. I wouldn't say, boom, boom, boom, keep shifting gears and then get angry when they pushed me to the point where I actually had a tear. Just me. I think this is suspicious behavior. And I'll just leave it at that. A good denial. I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything. Great denial. I didn't do anything. It's a shame, therefore, that she starts it with, yes, I say, I didn't do anything. Police say you're a suspect. Do you have anything to say about that? Yes, I say I didn't do anything. If you didn't do the yes, I say that would be, that would be a fantastic denial. So, so yeah, net net of that. It's not a good denial because, yeah, you can say you didn't do anything. But but what did you actually, what did you actually do? That's all I got on that one would have been would have been a great denial if she'd have actually given a great denial, not a good denial at all. Let me tell you about emotional connection really quick. Men are more likely to be compartmentalizers where their emotions kind of detach emotionally during the act and many times after. Women are more emotionally entangled with their victim. This is from the FBI. Given the relationship context leading to more emotion driven offenses. This also goes into post-offense behavior. So let's talk about this really quick. Men, after the crime, they might flee the scene or engage in behaviors to conceal the crime and women are more likely to express remorse immediately or even confess, especially if the crime was not premeditated. So it's pretty interesting here. Every fight with my baby now don't go through and Don's dead. I think she's talking about Ian. She's got the dead person wrong or the live person or both of them live in the dead person wrong. So it's not that I don't think she's paying attention. I think she's got a lot of her mind right now. She's really worried about being caught. And I think she's getting a little bit confused about that. So that's she but she better be concerned about him living because that's one more life sentence she's going to have to serve. Serve. I like it. There you go. It took me time. It took me time. It took me time to check. Thank you. Welcome. So leave me alone, please. Police say you're a suspect. Do you have anything to say about that? Yes, I say I didn't do anything. I love them and I'm devastated that they're gone. And I hope that every fight with my being now don't go through. That's what I have to say. Where do emotions come from? Do they pick by you or everybody comes from there? Can you tell us? What mill did you cook them? Did you eat the same mill there? I don't eat that.