 Hey, what's up everybody, Drew here from The Anxious Truth. I am joined today by a special guest, my friend, Krista Holman, Holman, Holman. Krista, Holman, that's right, I'm sorry. Krista, I found on Instagram, where she is more popularly known as the neurodivergent rebel, which is like one of the greatest Instagram handles ever. Krista is not only living the life of somebody on that autism spectrum and you can correct me if I use wrong terminology, I would be okay with that because I'd like you to educate us a little bit. And you've been at this since 2016, why don't you give us an idea of what you guys get going on at Europe? Yeah, so I was diagnosed autistic, I was 29, so I went almost 30 years of my life having no idea, I was autistic, but that being said, you always know something is different because you kind of go about your life being scolded for being a contrarian despite that never being your intent, when you're missed, people don't know you're thinking in a different way and so they just assume you're being difficult all the time. And when I finally found out, it was kind of like somebody gave me this rule book for my life, like an instruction manual, it's like this aha moment that really, it set me on a new path, it really helped me start taking care of myself in a more autistic friendly way because I had just been pushing myself and running myself into the ground trying to keep up with non-autistic standards because I just thought I was a failed non-autistic person because I couldn't do things that were easy for other people despite at the same time being able to do some really complex things that people struggle with easily. It's like it's two sided coin, but it's like you really fixate on the little things that you suck at unfortunately because unfortunately with anxiety, I'm sure you talk about here on this podcast, like those mistakes are under a magnifying glass and you see them like they kind of you ruminate on those sometimes and so I kind of got myself into a frustrated spot before I was diagnosed. So that diagnosis kind of course corrected me in a much more positive and constructive direction that I needed to get myself on track. And which has led to this mission that you've got going on online. And I was saying before we started recording that you actually introduced me to the term neurodivergence which I had never heard before. I will plead ignorance on that. And explain just for a second before we get into the conversation, what is neurodivergence? Like what is the concept there? Cause I think it's amazing and spectacular. So. Yeah. So basically the concept of neurodiversity and neurodivergence, it's like human diversity, and biodiversity in nature, there's diversity. It's advantageous to have diversity. And so neurodiversity says there are different thinking styles that are just natural variations in the human brain, a people with ADHD or dyslexia, autistic people myself others and there are sometimes Tourette's. It really depends on what it can, ha, brain words, autistic moment here. Anyway, sorry, I just completely like So good. I had a train wreck there. But basically it just says that all of these brain types are here and we should respect them and nurture them and help each of them to be the best versions of themselves and the best people they can be basically. Which is a great, great message. I like the idea that it's not necessarily, this is not a problem that we're necessarily trying to fix. It's just natural variation. And like everybody brings a little something different to the table. So, you know, you even mentioned before, like some things you're really good at that maybe other people aren't. So like let's not miss that. So very cool. So before we get into it, I was telling Krista before we started recording that this all started when somebody in my Facebook group asked if the methods that we talk about in the podcast to deal with anxiety and anxiety disorders that whole facing, floating, accepting thing, going toward the fear, not reacting, all of those things and unlearning the cognitive link between panic and danger. You know, would those be helpful to an autistic person who's struggling? And I thought, I don't know how to answer that question but I kind of thought you might have something to say about it. And that's how we got into this like, hey, let's do a podcast together. So I would imagine that you were saying that, you know, anxiety does come along with people that are on the autism spectrum. I mean, is it automatic for everybody? Or is it, I mean, you're no different than anyone else. Like you may have anxious days and not anxious days. Some things may cause anxiety. Say may not, I'm sure. It's not, I'm guessing it's not automatic. Yeah. And it's interesting because I think we know a large number of autistic people report having issues with anxiety. But you know, the question is, is it natural for autistic people to have anxiety or is that just a side effect of the unintentional gaslighting that a lot of us face in life? Because, you know, especially, you know, those of us who are undiagnosed, you know, your whole life are told, you're just not trying hard enough. You're, you know, you're lazy. All these things when you're really, you're trying your hardest and everyone around you is telling you, you're just not trying hard enough. It just kind of breaks you down. Or, you know, if you have sensory processing differences and other people around you don't. So you walk into the grocery store and the lights like literally burn your eyes like needles and it hurts to walk into a Walmart and you want to wear sunglasses inside and people are like, no, you can't do that or you're just being ridiculous or you don't need that. And you just think, oh, okay, everyone else must be in pain too. And I guess they can tough it out and I'm just a wimp, you know? You don't know. And then, you know, sometimes people just don't understand that you're coming from a different perspective. And so there's a lot of misunderstandings and that kind of breeds anxiety. So I don't know, you know, if autistic people naturally have anxiety, I know I've had anxiety throughout my life for I think about as long as I can maybe remember. But I don't think there's a one size fits all answer for that or, you know, for solutions just like with, you know, non-autistic people. Right, that's what I think. Like I can't imagine that there'd be, you know, there's that much difference to be honest with you. Like there's gonna be variation in every segment of the population, you know, including yours and mine. So what's, you know, I would imagine that makes sort of sense. But so I think one of the things that you just mentioned that was super interesting is that thing where maybe you walk into a Walmart and the lights are so bright that for somebody who deals with that, that sort of sensory overstimulation problem, it can be a real, real issue. You know, that's also for people who suffer from anxiety disorders, that's also an anxiety symptom. But I have to start to wonder because I've heard people come through like my community surrounding the podcast who have talked about that issue. Like it feels like my brain is literally going to explode. I must run home and go into the dark. And it's super easy for everybody to say, oh, that's just an anxiety symptom. It's fine, just accept it, keep going. But once in a while you'll hit that person that that doesn't appear to be the answer. Like no, you don't understand. Like I literally feel like my brain is on fire, which is tough for us to hear sometimes because I always say feels like is the biggest lie going. You can't live based on what it feels like because anxiety will lie to you. You know, it feels like you're dying when you're really not. But there are plenty of people who have indicated that like, no, this feels like a real physical overwhelming thing. And I have to wonder that the experience of somebody who is autistic with a panic attack must be different to a certain extent. And I wonder, is the approach slightly different? So you dealt with anxiety. I don't know if you've actually dealt with an anxiety disorder like panic disorder or agoraphobia, but how have you found a way to cope? What have you done in your life? See, this is great because what you were just talking about, I've had panic attacks and then a little bit more on like the overwhelm of the lights and other things. Sensory overload is something that is not only an autistic thing. And basically, you know, in sensory overload, it is very similar to a panic attack in a lot of ways, but it's not anxiety triggered, although you can have anxiety about sensory overload because you know it's terrible and you know it happens anytime you're gonna go into certain situations. But like sensory overload really is like, the brain is just overloaded and it just can't process any more information. And so your brain does kind of start to shut down. And so what you have in sensory overload is, you kinda lose a bit of cognition first and maybe you get a little slurry or you might notice things are weird. And then you start to kind of go downhill from there. And then if you don't get yourself out of the place, you might have almost an anxious reaction where it's like, get out of here because your brain is like sending signals, run, run, get away, this is bad. Because then you really can just have overloaded your brain and you can't have it handle anymore. And so that's like sensory overloading. You know, I guess it's not a specific autistic thing, but it is something that's more common with autistic people and happens more frequently with autistic people. And then panic attacks, oh, they suck. I hate panic attacks. I think we can all agree on that. I don't know anybody who loves them. Oh, they suck so bad. And I've had both of those things and they do feel a little bit similar, but the panic attack is so frustrating because, well, for many reasons, I think you know all the reasons it's frustrating, but it's definitely different triggers, although I think I've had panic attacks thinking about having sensory overload too much because they're not fun. And when I got diagnosed autistic, I also got a social anxiety diagnosis, although hindsight, I was kind of holding back a lot of things because there's a stigma about anxiety, mental health. And I also didn't have the language to talk about anxiety and mental health because it was never considered or something that anyone talked about growing up. And I, you know, generalized anxiety might have been more accurate, but I got the social anxiety diagnosis and I was like, no, I don't even have anxiety even though I had all the physical symptoms. You know, I was having indigestion, sweaty palms, like all of it, you know, physically, but I was like, I was so used to operating at that level of high anxiety all the time. That was your normal. Normal, yeah, I had just put it all, and I've just stepped on it and used it all to climb up and I was just used to it, you know, and I was burning myself out, I was making myself sick and that's why, you know, I ended up being diagnosed because I had health problems related to the anxiety. And so I was, you know, a sick autistic. And so I was, you know, bad enough, off mentally to where I represented what people think a stereotypical autistic looks like. Because, you know, mental health professionals, they don't know what an autistic and good mental health looks like. The definition of an autistic person in the DSM is basically an autistic in crisis or an autistic person in bad mental health. Okay. So what does it look like in a regular good day? Does anybody describe that? Yeah, I mean, I'm like a normal human. I'm a normal person, you know? Right, why wouldn't you be? I'm a bit, you know, I'm not all introverts either, but I'm a bit introverted, I'm a bit of a recluse. I need a lot of recharge time. You know, I need a lot of downtime because when I go out in sensory environments, like stores and, you know, when I used to work in offices more, like it would really physically drain me down and now my employer lets me work remotely and I can work a lot more hours remotely than I can when I have to physically go to an office and commute and driving is one of the things that's easy for a lot of people that is really difficult for me. And I've put a lot of hours and miles on the road practicing, I think it's always just gonna be harder. And so not having to do that even just as such an amazing accommodation, but, you know, a lot of people are hesitant to give those things because they're like, well, everybody wants that. What I find fascinating about that is, right, I think, you know, okay, so in your particular instance, there was a diagnosis of autism and maybe there was some difficulties that went along with that, but there's probably a zillion people out there that would do much better if they didn't have to get in a car and drive for an hour and a half every day and to get to a job. So, yeah, I don't know if that's necessarily a thing that where you'd single yourself out because of the diagnosis, like I think a lot of people would benefit from that in the end. But I like how you said that driving, I don't like that driving is a problem for you, but I mean, I like how you said that driving is a problem, but you have spent a lot of time practicing it. So like this is a key theme that runs through my podcast and through the community around the podcast, never running away from the things that you fear. And I like that this has been a problem for you, but you do not appear to be backing away from it. I mean, it may be your particular circumstance means it will always be difficult for you, but it doesn't sound like you've shied away from it, so you'll still do it. Yeah, no, and there was a point in my life, gosh, okay. I don't know when the switch happened because I wasn't always so willing to test my boundaries and push my fears. I wasn't. I know when I was my best friend who I've known since, ooh, preschool, younger, because she was next door neighbor and growing up when we were the same age. When I, you know, some people, I've told them about my diagnosis and they don't really know what to make of it because I don't fit their definition of what they think autism is or they feel they've known me or they know me really well and to them this would change who I am in their eyes and so they can't accept it. So people have a hard time accepting the information for a lot of different reasons I'm learning, but she was in like elementary school with me and Girl Scouts with me and saw me with other people our age and she's like, oh my gosh, this makes so much sense, which is so funny, right? In hindsight. In hindsight, yes. Oh my gosh, where was I going with this? It's terrible. Well, yeah, it's okay. It was that thing where like you weren't always so willing to face. Oh yes, okay. And so she was saying, she remembers like once upon a time when I was a kid, I was like, you know, this little person who like I couldn't do anything and that was because I was holding myself back. I was like afraid of everything, you know, I had so much anxiety about everything and perfectionism really bad, like being just afraid to just kind of pull it and let it go, you know, and it's good enough and let it go, just you can never accept when it's good enough. And you know, at some point, I think I learned that if I wanted to learn something, I could learn it as long as I practiced, like really, really hard and it took a lot of work and I could eventually get there, you know, and I learned, oh wow, okay, through my stubbornness, I can do really amazing things. And that was a confidence booster. And then so I started being willing to try more and more risky things, even things that are really scary to me, one of the things I made myself do a few years ago, a team building at one of my last employers was like jump off of a platform, like two-story platform into a stunt bag, which I will never do again, because one of my biggest fears is falling. Yeah, yeah, but you did it. And I did it, but in my head the entire time, there was graphic images of how I was gonna die because I did it wrong and it was so terrible, but I was like, no, we're doing this anyway. But it was, and it was, no, it was not fun, but I'm glad I did it, you know, because I had to do it, but oh my gosh, and I had never felt my body was like so frozen and stiff. I couldn't even feel my body afterwards. It was like, oh, but you know, I want to, like I learned a lot of the fear and the anxiety is not logical. Oh, it's not logical in any way. There's nothing logical about it. And so when I see something's not logical or I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna get hurt, this actually isn't gonna hurt me, or what's the worst that can happen? I just have to just jump. And it's like, that's why I just tell myself in my head, this little pep talk, okay, just jump, just jump, and I say that, even like little things, like, you know, like it's about to send an email to a client that I've read a million times and I'm like, okay, is this good enough to send to this client? Is there a typo? Did I spell it, you know, and I've looked at it, but it's like, okay, I just have to jump. I just have to hit send, you know, and just, I just have to go. And because otherwise I can be paralyzed by my own anxiety and it won't let me move. And I just, I just had to start pushing through it. That's amazing because obviously that's, you're on a slightly different journey, possibly for different reasons, but you have described exactly what so many people who listen to me are trying to do. Now maybe they're trying to get to the point where they can get back out the door or drive on the highway again because they're, you know, they've been, their world is shrinking because of panic and agoraphobia and things of that nature, but it's always that thing where, well, I know logically that I shouldn't be afraid to go into the supermarket, yet I am and I can't do it and the only way we talk about all the time, the only way to actually be able to go into the supermarket is to go into the supermarket. You'll never be able to talk your way out of the fear, you must show yourself that you are okay. And so you're describing such a very similar, a very similar process, like just gotta jump. And at some point, people who are dealing with these problems also have to just take that leap of faith that like, I'm gonna be okay, even though I think I'm, in their case, they're panicked to the point where they think they may die or go insane and that sort of stuff, but you still have to take a leap of faith and know that that stunt bag is there to catch you and you're okay. And you'll learn through experience that it's okay. So your willingness to go and do those hard things and scary things mirrors the experience of a person who is recovering from an anxiety disorder. It's really amazing. Yeah, that was great. That was really, really, really helpful. So I think, we don't wanna go too long, we're gonna try and keep it under 30 minutes. So we got about 10 more minutes to go. So the things that you have learned to do to adapt in terms of, you didn't even know you had anxiety, which is amazing to me. You just thought that was your normal. Like my palms are supposed to sweat, my heart is supposed to pound out of my chest. That's just normal, right? So did it not take a lot of adaptation or work to overcome the anxiety issues? Or once you had a label for it, it became easier or they're still there? I mean, how did you wind up working through all that? So I started working through it before I knew what it was and before it had a name, I think. Because I knew something was wrong. Not really to autism, but the anxiety. Something was wrong. And so I had been seeking out lots of things and I would bury myself in exercise and then I got really, really into yoga. And that was amazing. Not just the physical part, because there's a very spiritual and lots of breathing and mindfulness with yoga. And that was so good to me. And then it led me to Buddhism. And so as an autistic person, you know, for me and we're all different, but in a very stereotypical way, like lists and handful checklists of things like are so useful to me. And it's like Buddhism was like this very practical system of like getting your brain right and kind of calming your wild mind. That's all over the place. And so I started, you know, with a lot more mindfulness and Buddhism and meditation. And for me, that was really helpful but the breathing exercise is the most. And, you know, being more aware of, oh, here's that feeling again. And, you know, observing what does this feeling feel like? I know it's gonna pass. All of that stuff, just being with it. But I learned that, you know, before I had a name for what I was even dealing with. Like I started to do those things because I was like, I knew it gave me relief and I hadn't had relief my entire life. You know, I'd always been, or at least for as long as I could remember, I'd been just amped up, anxious. I'm a million miles an hour kind of a person anyway. So that was really helpful. And then when I was diagnosed autistic, and then, you know, I started to, you know, learn more about anxiety because a lot of autistic people have anxiety for whatever reason. And I started to be more involved in kind of autism and then mental health community. And I learned more about anxiety. And I was like, okay, you know, I probably have a lot of anxiety. I started to realize and I started to really deal with it. Like really deal with it. Yeah. Which I'm giving it a name help so much. It sounds like you've developed a lot of the same tools that we talk about all the time on the podcast and people that are in this process of overcoming these anxiety disorders, the difference between anxiety and anxiety disorder, use all the same tools, the meditation, the mindfulness, the breathing exercises, not because they're shields against panic and anxiety, but they're focusing tools, they're mind calming tools, they're quieting tools, you know, puts you back in the driver's seat a little bit. So it sounds like you've had a similar experience with those particular tools that they've helped you out, which is great. And so I think I wanna get to a couple of the questions that people had asked that maybe you can shed some light on. There wasn't a whole lot, but one person had it. Well, I'm gonna ask a question first. My question's first. It's my podcast, so I get to ask first. So the question would be, and I've had people, many people that follow me and listen to the podcast, they're dealing with their children or have anxiety problems and they're looking for help with their children, which is great, or other family members, and some of which are also diagnosed autistic or they have other neurodivergence issues, if you will. And I know they worry sometimes, I've got that. Like, well, how does this complicate it for my son or my daughter? And I don't know, I'm guessing there's no blanket answer to that because of diversity within every community, of course, but do you have an opinion on that? Is there a wrinkle here? Like, yeah. It's hard when you're helping, especially if you're helping your kids and they're younger. With autistic kids, it's, with anxiety, it can even be OCD level sometimes. Or we tend to be, like, at least I am, I'm really fixated on problems and I see a problem and it's big and it's glaring me in the face, you know? And it's like, I can't ignore it until I've checked it off that it's taken care of and it's good and it's safe, okay? And as a kid, I would tell my mom things like, oh, I can't get out of the bathtub, I'll slip and I'll crack my head open and I'll bleed to death and I'll die. And my mom thinks I'm being dramatic because I'm this logical kid. Why would I really think that would happen? And like, I was like, for way longer than it should be, my mom had to pick me up and take me out of the bathtub. But I was really like convinced, like I'm also a very visual thinker. So like thoughts in my head are, you know, I close my eyes and it's like a VR 360 movie. I can see it clearly. And so I could see very clearly what I had imagined in my head happening. And it was real to me and I was convinced that that was gonna happen to me. But people from the outside don't understand like how real that is. Right, right. Which may be more of a wrinkle because of your position on that spectrum possibly. Is that what you're intimating? I'm not sure. Yeah, and it's tricky because, you know, autistic people, a lot of, like we think and we experience the world in our emotions often in a more intense way. And so, you know, situations for us that aren't as overwhelming for others can be more overwhelming for us. And, you know, we tend to ruminate on things. You know, our obsessive nature, you know, is good as a gift and it's a curse. You know, like I have, you know, I said I can get really good at anything I want to learn. You know, for the most part. Right. You know, I failed miserably when I was trying really hard to be non-autistic and keep up with my peers in the workplace that weren't, I couldn't do it. And that hurt my self-esteem because I hadn't ever tried to do something and failed since I had, like, realized, oh, I can do anything I put my mind to if I try hard enough, you know, and then I failed. But I, and then, you know, I got the diagnosis. I was like, oh, it's okay. You know, I wasn't meant to. Yeah. But it's just trying to keep moving forward but it's hard when we get, you know, that obsessiveness can be a good, when it can be such a bad thing at the same time. Yeah. And so it sounds like it may actually, and for people who are, you know, not on the spectrum, just, you know, dealing with these disorders, those thoughts and obsessions and fears do feel so real and so powerful. And it sounds like maybe it's even amped up a bit more for you or someone in your position. So I think that's an understanding that the rest of us should probably keep in our pockets. Like, as hard as it is for you, it may even be more difficult for a person in that position to really make that leap of faith into the fear because the fear feels even more intense as it does for somebody else. The thought is deeper ingrained. It repeats more than all those things. Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, just think about that. You know, if our memories are already like 360 VR experiences, think about like PTSD and PTSD flashbacks. That's what people get with PTSD, right? Right. Kind of almost like a flashback situation. Right. And so, you know, autistic people who are really keened in to their senses and really like hooked on senses like can be triggered to really haunting traumatic memories from sense and touch and song. And, you know, we're suddenly like back, you know, I have memories of being one and a half year old just as clear as yesterday. Yeah. You know, but my short-term memory is really tricky and annoying. And I have like to write so many notes down because I can't take written instructions. I won't remember what you need me to do. It's frustrating how that works. But it's like I can remember so many things like it was just yesterday. So it's not like time really makes the memories go away. There's like not a really normal time space continuum in my head. It's all like it was just yesterday. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. So I think it would probably be a more patient approach. It would more patience and maybe a bit more time and a bit more of a, I'm not gonna say a gentle approach because if anything I know of you, it's never a victim. There's never a victim mentality in your world. I could see which is awesome. But, you know, I think a reality check is always a good thing. So one question that came up that a lot of people seemed to like was, when on the spectrum, how can you prevent the natural overstimulation that you may experience from becoming anxiety? So, and we maybe talked about that a little bit in the beginning, we were talking about that sensory overload thing, but a lot of people seem to love that question. So if you're naturally stimulated more than I might be, for instance, how do you keep that from becoming, a heightened state of anxiety or even panic? For the people who are listening to me, they're likely thinking, how do I keep this from turning into yet another panic attack? Or do you? Well, I think, you know, first you have to kind of learn to recognize, maybe keep notes and figure out what your triggers are. What is triggering these episodes? Is it this store? Is it every time I go to these kinds of stores? What stores is it? You can air it down as the lighting thing. Is it a sound thing? Is it in it? Because for all of the senses with autistic people or people with sensory processing differences, or SPD, any of the senses like a radio dial or a volume knob can be dialed up or down if we say middle is normal. Whatever it is. And so it can be more intense or less intense, depending on which way you dial it. And that's for taste and sound and smell. And so, you know, if you're just overwhelmed with any of these senses, eventually your brain is just like, so you want to start to learn to recognize like at the first sign of something's wrong, I'm starting to feel like I'm not myself. Or, you know, that, okay, I need to maybe remove myself or go engage in something that is the opposite of overstimulating the brain. Something that's relaxing. You know, go color a coloring book. Go play with some silly putty. Go, you know, go sniff some essential oils. Go do something that is soothing. Go lay on a couch with a weighted blanket. Oh my God, I love my weighted blanket. It's the best. You know, just go, you know, go cuddle a puppy. You know, go, but when you, but you need to learn like, oh, this is, I'm getting overloaded and I need to rest. And then for me as an autistic person, I've had to learn that I'm really all or nothing. I have no off switch. Like I will go until I finish something if I don't block in self-care and rest time. So I make a point to like schedule my downtime because I really need downtime. You know, say if I know I'm going to be traveling and I've got a bunch of trips, like in October I went to, you know, a few different cities and I had to, I was on like so many different airplanes that month. And it's like, okay, so I had to like block in. This is a rest day. I am not doing anything that day. And it's like, I'm not allowed to work this day. I have, I'm going to maybe watch some Netflix and you know, cuddle with the puppies and eat some popsicles and hang out at home and not, not work, you know, just downtime. Because it's like the brain is overstimulated. So it's, you have to like constantly be aware of that and be thinking about, okay, what, what is good for me that is the opposite of overstimulation that can kind of balance that out. And so learning yourself, that takes a lot. That's probably the biggest task is learning yourself and learning your triggers. So interesting because some of what you described, which makes perfect sense. And obviously you figured a lot of these things out through trial and error for yourself probably are the, they would be cardinal sins in my world. Like so you go into the supermarket and you're feeling overwhelmed and you are correct. Like in your situation, but you are actually perceiving it that way. Your perception of that environment is different than mine. And so you must act on the fact that it is a different perception. Whereas we would normally tell somebody, nope, you just have to relax into that and stay. And when you run, you learn that the supermarket is dangerous, but that's not what you're doing. Like you are literally adapting to the reality. It is a reality for you. It's not, it's not in your head. It's not, it's not a false fear that is the reality of how you perceive the world. So- Hope you've been told it's in our heads a lot. That must have been incredibly frustrated. It must have been. Yes. And so I think if, you know, if there's one person listening to us that maybe hasn't been diagnosed or doesn't know, isn't sure there was some question. I know that there are people that probably are trying to do this thing that I talk about doing where like, no, you don't leave the situation because that's the wrong thing to do who maybe really should leave the situation if they are truly perceiving it that way. It's such a fascinating thing. So it adds a bit of a fine line to walk. You need to get out of the situation and then learn the proper way, I guess, to be able to do that task as opposed to just never doing the task again. And here's some other, you know, maybe tips too, you know, if you find out that it's like overstimulation from light or overstimulation from sound, then okay, get some, what is it, the silent headphones? Or even there are the sonic earplugs that you can use at a concert, you know. Or sunglasses and wear those inside. And then see if you feel less anxious, see if you feel better. And that's the hard thing is like, people like worry if they look funny going into stores with these things on, but if it makes you feel better and you know, I started doing these things and I was like, oh my gosh, just having sunglasses on going into Lowe's and Walmart. I'm like, I don't hate being in here anymore. We can run around and goof off in Walmart. That's a big deal what you just said because I think that's a good litmus test. So somebody who's saying like, I don't know, I just feel like I can't do it. If you put on those sunglasses and suddenly Walmart becomes much, much easier, then that's probably a really good chance that says that yes, you are truly experiencing the visual overstimulation. Somebody in the throes of an anxiety disorder who is not on the spectrum puts on the sunglasses and it doesn't matter. Something else will make them fearful. So the sunglasses will not help. So it's such an interesting thing to think about. Like it adds a wrinkle. You know, you still have to learn to take care of yourself and go shopping and do those errands and everything, but you have to be aware of how you're perceiving the world. I guess what the triggers are and then how to adapt to those things. It's awesome. It's tremendously helpful, tremendously helpful. Oh, glad. Yeah, yeah. So I guess we'll kind of wrap it up. There was one other question that somebody asked, but you kind of brought it up again. This person says, I was diagnosed with ADD late in the game and after years of anxiety disorder, she was conflicted like chicken and egg issue. Do I have ADD or do I have an anxiety disorder? Do I both, which came before the other? But I don't know, does it really even matter in the end? You know, I did have some symptoms early in childhood. I didn't have true, poor memory and agitation until she became agoraphobic. So it all became a kind of a jumbled mess for this person where, wait, do I have ADD and an anxiety disorder? Do I have one or the other? And it became hard for her to keep them separate or pry them apart. I don't know if you have found that in your situation or dealt with people where it all gets mixed up. A great another diagnosis. Yeah, well, you know, what's interesting is with neurodiversity, a lot of the conditions are commonly co-occurring with one another. Like autism, I don't have ADHD. One of my best closest friends is ADHD and I have a lot of ADHD friends, like just naturally, I don't know, gravitate towards the ADHDers. You know, it's like, ah, you know, we're neurodivergent, we can feel it. Yeah, white people, yes. But, you know, with autism or ADHD, it is something that it's a lifelong diagnosis. You don't age out of it, you age into it. Kind of, you grow into it, you mature into it, and you know, you learn to cope or you don't. And you kind of, you change as you grow, but, you know, the way you think doesn't really ever change. And it's hard to say too, but because with autism, and then with ADHD, you know, there's always, you know, the possibility of misdiagnosis or whatever. But, you know, with ADHD, I think anxiety is kind of a common, a co-occurring thing too, if I'm not mistaken, because I know my ADHD friends are also anxiety people. We're really similar. And what's really interesting is a lot of, in a lot of ways, I almost feel sometimes like, it's hard to tell autistic kids and ADHD kids apart. We're so similar sometimes. I think the ADHD kids are a little bit more outgoing sometimes, but even autistic kids can be really outgoing and sociable, believe it or not. Especially, you know, so it's like people just don't understand, you know. Like I was the one that was, I was really outgoing and really social, and I didn't realize when the other kids were picking on me, I thought, you know, because I just thought, oh, they'd be nice to me and they'd be my friends. I, you know, I wouldn't get it when they were being manipulative little monsters. Like it would just be totally over my head. Right. Interesting. So, I think it's in the end, it all starts to tie together, right? Everybody exhibits traits of everyone else's issue. The little autism ADHD kind of fit together. People who have anxiety disorders exhibit some of those traits, although they're under distress at the moment, but it would be easily, you know, kind of confused for somebody who has ADHD. So in the end, my answer to that sometimes is, what does the diagnosis matter? Now, in your case, the diagnosis did matter because it answered a ton of questions, but people struggle sometimes with like, well, I don't know what I am. So this diagnosis is either a death sentence for me or not a death sentence, but now I'm locked into this. This is what I am. And I think they worry about that. So that's probably would fuel that question. But in the end, you learn to adapt and live and build your skill set that you gotta build and what does it matter in the end? Sometimes, you know? Well, that's why I like neurodiversity too, because it's, you know, it says all of these different brain types of this and they're here. And you know, sometimes it's easier people to say, you know, I feel like I'm neurodivergent in some way. Yeah. And I feel like I'm neurodivergent. I mean, there's a lot of different things that within that that's like, I feel, you know, but you can know, like I have a different brain type I can tell, you know, because you know when you've kind of gone about the world and have been scolded your whole life for being a weirdo and you were just like, I'm just normal for me. What are you talking about? You know? Yeah, certainly not a weirdo. So this has been great. We're at almost 40 minutes, so we'll wrap it up here. Yeah, I know, we went, we kept going, we kept drawing away. I would do this again with you in a heartbeat. So I appreciate your time. You were like incredibly helpful to the people who were listening, I know. So before we go, where can people find you? Yes. So neurodivergentrebel.com is probably the easiest place. I'm on all social media platforms as neurodivergent rebel. I'm pretty easy to track down. Yeah, you are. You're pretty visible, which I dig. Yeah, I dig. And you should definitely follow Kristen because the message is that I just love it. Anyway, that's me. So I appreciate your time. Maybe we'll do it again one day. And yeah, that's it. I'll stop the recording and then we'll wrap it up. Thank you, Kristen. Thank you. All right, see you guys next time.