 Crisis rocks the leadership of political parties as national party officers of the PDP resign and the APC have eyes set on them. And APC members seeks the solution of the governor, my Malapuni-led Kateka committee of the party. Well, this is Plus Politics and I am Mary Anna Cole. Seven deputy national officers made up of the deputy national publicity secretary, the deputy legal advisor, the deputy women leader amongst others resigned their position, citing bad treatment, the PDP national chairman. They were saying that this was the treatment they got from the national chairman. Now they also cited financial and discipline and poor leadership as reasons for their resignation. This latest event may fuel the crisis rocking the leadership of the PDP. What's running us to discuss this is a former special advisor to the river state governor, and of course we will be having join us the former publicity secretary of the People's Democratic Party in river state and the APC chieftain, but thank you very much for joining us, Mr. Inko Tare. It's interesting to see that, you know, we were just recently talking about the crisis rocking the APC, but it seems like the PDP is not left out on this drama. I mean, the PDP has lost soldiers. They've lost governors. They've lost senators. Now they're losing strong members of their party and they're citing bad treatment, you know, by the chairman of the party. Do you have any idea what exactly these people are referring to? Well, first, one is not really surprised. I'm not taking it back because there have been precursory signs of this to happen and many more to happen. In the past, the leadership has been accused of high-handedness and collusion with some governors. And most of you will agree with me that nobody wants to be treated with this thing. I mean, look who I'm accepting, it's much more bewildering than outcry rejection. And they have accused, they've planned their resignation on the disdain treatment they received from Prince Uche's deconditions. That being the case, but I believe, well, my conviction is that it has to do with Pekinari's reasons. When they say, they rightly said so too, but not necessarily on vile, fristic reasons. I believe that they carried out, they have got a resign simply because they've not been carried along financially. The problem was of the sideline and they must have had a Georgia president resignation which did not yield anything fruitful or reasonable according to them. So they have to resign rather than be sideline. This also tells you that the parties in crisis, just like the ATG, the parties in crisis and it also has also threatened the parties ability to take over come 2022. And talking about financial recklessness, because this is some of the things that were cited in the acclaimed. That is what they are led by financial recklessness. And you're saying that these people may probably have not been carried along. How do you leave a party that is in crisis? I mean, at a time like this, when political parties are supposed to band together, everybody's trying to realign, getting ready for 2023. How do you leave the PDP for the APC who's also having its own internal crisis? I mean, what's the sense in that? Again, as the PDP is seen depleting every single day, is there any hope for the PDP in 2023? Well, I just told you, there is the chances of the PDP hosting the APC in 2003 is quite slim. Given the defection that has taken place in recent times, nevertheless talking of defecting from the PDP to the APC, just as some members are defecting to the APC, some members are also defecting to the PDP. Like I said yesterday, if I have to jog your brain a little, I told you, I said most of those politicians don't have ideologies. They are all there. They are in politics for gastric reasons. They are in politics just to fend off or align their pockets. They are not in politics for any Nigeria. They are not in politics to smoothing out the rocks in the society. They are in politics for their own personal gain. And so when they leave the APC, PDP for the APC, probably the most have reached accommodation with members of the APC for one appointment or the other. And that is exactly what has happened. So nobody should be deluded thinking that it's for autocentric reasons, not for acoustic reasons. What are the practices of since from 2023? It's a different thing altogether. When they get into that party, of course they'll work with the APC to ensure the APC perpetuates itself in office. Those that are going to leave the APC for the PDP will also ensure that the PDP allows the APC to come 2023. And that is it. Whichever way, well, that is different. I hope it will depend on the matter. But I said I hope that is in the elections that are not going to be reached because there are also preposterous signs that there are plans for the elections to be reached, given the opposition that visited the transmission of the results in the 2020 Congress. Let's even start by, I want us to, because I mean, you worked under a PDP government, so you have some insight into it. Now, let's look at the leadership. But I must state here now that I'm not an APC or PDP. I know that. But let's examine the leadership of Prince Uche Secundus. Now, let's not also forget that the problem that is rocking the PDP, the APC right now is also bothered on leadership. But let's look at the leadership of Prince Uche Secundus and the people that came before him. How well has he fared as a party chairman in terms of staring the ship, in terms of blurring the lines and strengthening the party? How well has he done? Let's take a look at his leadership skills. Well, I will be pontificating if I give a penetrating talk to Prince Uche Secundus leadership style, because I'm not a member of the party. That is number one. And most of these things are internal. They are intraparties. It's not like a government that is open to public prognosis. This is an intraparty matter. The only issue I have is that PDP has not been a very high-level position. That is given. That's one of the things irrefragable nobody can argue there. But to talk of the internal workings of the PDP, I know that there are a lot of disgruntled party members and they have to put that to high-handed net, not just from Uche Secundus, but by even some governments. And they believe that Secundus is being mostly controlled by certain governments. That is the truth. But I cannot tell you for say, I mean, when I talk about specificity, I cannot say this is the actual problem. But for what these people have said yesterday, when they resign, they talk of financial recklessness and high-handed net. Well, talking of the high-handed net, I can't really say, but they are strong that even while you have to get to that one, and so many other persons have to get to that. So that is one fact. But talking of the financial recklessness, I am not, PDP have no sense of their financial transaction or their financial dealings. So I can't really say, it is incumbent on them to apply the public of what they mean by financial recklessness. If they have received money, if they receive money at Secundus, you may not try to spend enough money without a cause to due process. Probably that is what they mean. There have been cases where, like you said, governors have also been seen, you know, being somewhat high-handed in the party and certain governors seem to be more powerful than other governors. Some of the reasons why the governor of Cross River State said he left the party for the APC was that he was not allowed to be the leader of the party in his state and that, you know, a certain governor in another state was causing trouble within the party in his state. So you see the case of high-handedness. And if governors of states are complaining about the fact that they're not allowed to run the structure of the party in their state, again, the PDP is supposed to be playing a strong opposition to the APC as we saw when the PDP was in power how the APC was able to run them out of government. And we're not even advocating for anything, but we'll just say the duty of the PDP seems to be have, seems to have been abdicated one way or the other. Should this also be heaped on the head of the party chairman, or is it a blame that should be shared by all in sundry? Well, talking of being playing an active role in the opposition, let's also forget that under the Junotas administration, Junotan was quite impoverished, was quite tolerant. He tolerated a lot of views, dissenting views and so on. And he was more of a democrat. But in this particular instance, you'll find out that there are so many attempts, relentless attempts to muzzle the press and to change the freedom of information and expression. So when you say the APC was quite active when it got in the polluter, it was consequent upon the leader, the president after that time, who gave room and allowed a lot of things to happen. So you're saying that the Buhari, so you're implying that the Buhari administration is stifling the voice of the PDPs. Is that what you mean? The fact that you're saying there's no freedom of information. You're saying that the voices of the PDP members, or the voice of the opposition is being stifled. How? I am saying categorically, that under this present administration, the rule of law in case, and that we say of justice around the sub-battant, the agendas are trying to muzzle the press. They come up with all sorts of laws. We are aware of the Twitter issue. We are aware of the NBC code. We are aware of so many of the admitted plethora of that in order to intimidate the press and suppress opposition. Because they see dangerous enemies in the Spanish Southern, the Syphus and the stuff behind every dissenting war. That is not endowed. Nobody can dispute that under this administration. But under this good law, do you know that the other one was more tolerant than this one? This one is impervious to criticism. Anything, they come up with a speech, whatever, may why there are laws to address those things. Estands laws to address what they are afraid of. The very thing they are working against was what they weaponized under the Jonathan's agreement to remove Jonathan from office. So you cannot compare when it comes to free press, freedom of the press. You cannot compare the Jonathan's decision with that of the Gwareka administration. That I can take up with those that are stand to the constitution anywhere. Interested. Let me go to Nzeke, go to Kunzeke, who's joining us on the phone. Have we lost him? Apologies, we have lost Nzeke. He probably will come back. Well, let me come back to you, Uponabwa. We know, as at a few hours ago, that Joy Maudi of the PDP has recently joined the APC. That's the only name that we can name right now. And we know- That's Benway, is it? Benway Street, is it? Yes. The Sunator. Yes, and she was part of the Board of Trustees of the PDP, but now she has joined the APC. This obviously means that, like you said, there's something within the APC that's attractive, and that's why they're joining the APC. We haven't heard from the other six members where they're going, but we know that they have resigned. The states that have the PDP seem to be southern states. And there are people who have, the pundits who have said that soon, the PDP might just become original government. You know, just like APCA is now a one state party. So do you see this happening sometimes soon that the APC might just, one way or the other, compress the PDP into just a few states in the south? Well, without any attempt to foreshadow, because every one minute means a lot in policy. One second. A lot of people, I mentioned yesterday, a lot of people that are dissatisfied to the APC today might go back to the PDP. If their terms, if their conditions are not met, because like I told you, they did not defect based on principle. No, it was for their own selfish reason. They just felt like those who talk of high-handed met, they just felt that their ambitions will not be brought to fruition in the PDP. So let us move to the APC. The same thing to be sure the APC members that are defecting to the PDP. So it is too early in the day because most of them might defect back to the PDP and most might go back to the APC. But if you compare the crisis rock in both parties, I think it's worse off in the APC. It's worse off in the APC. I was really hoping that you'd say that and then I had a question, because as bad as the crisis in the APC is, we still haven't seen anybody move grounds. And I remember talking to a member of the APC, but he just mentioned Joy. He just mentioned Joy was moving to PDP. No, just hold on. And a term move from APC to PDP? Yeah, well, but just hold on. Sorry, moving from PDP. A term move from APC to PDP? No, no, no, Joy moved from PDP to the APC. APC, what about that? Well, just hold on, I'm going somewhere. As bad as the crisis in the APC is, we've hardly seen anybody decide to move to the PDP. Now, I remember when I was talking to a member, a high-ranking member of the APC, and he asked a simple question to the opposing side, the person who was representing the PDP, that what does the PDP have to offer? That the APC is the party in power. And of course, if you join the party in power, there's a lot more to gain from it other than a party that's gradually dying. This was not, this were not my words. So really, if these people were to move to the PDP, what's the guarantee that the PDP has the power to give them what they want? That is the question I'm going to be posing to you again. As bad as the situation is, people are going to court. They're asking that Boone be removed as the head of the National Working Committee. All of the problems they're facing, the failed Congresses and the conversations around if they're going to have the Congresses all over again, the people have stayed put. What does that say about the PDP? Well, like I said, I really think that it's too early in the day because a lot of people, in less than 20,000 people can defend from one party, from one party to another. You keep saying that, but in the past few months, we've only seen a mass movement to the APC. We've seen the PDP lose governors. We've seen the PDP lose senators. Right now, members of the Board of Trustees are being lost to the APC. We're not seeing the same from the other side. Don't also forget that just 24 hours to the election, a lot of people might also move from one party to the other. That's what I'm telling you. And what I extrapolate from what you said, the other somebody against said, is that they are going to bring the appeasants to bear because the movement of fear, it was going to have effect. But the masses are the ones to decide which party is to win. And that is what we call for electorate voting. Now, a lot of them are moving to the APC. Even in the APC, you have to scot-and-beast tunes. The man who spoke with you, I don't want to mention his name, but I can guess, I can summarize, who spoke with you is not understand with the leader of the party. And don't forget, it has really nothing to do with the medical strength because you can be in a party and become a pit columnist. Like what happened in Riverside in 2019, where those party members were the one that truncated the participation of the APC in Riverside. So it's not all about that. It has to do with interest. So that's what I'm telling you. That rise might actually be too early to say which party will win. You might be surprised that even the first party might win. Because a lot of these APC members might also need the APC which are different to another political party. That was how the APC was formed. They also have the GDP. Before 2015, that was the APC. In 2014, that was the APC. Now now the APC was formed. So certain parties might also decide to come together to strengthen an existing political party for each to imagine to rule country 23. That's the point I'm making. Because a lot of people that have depended on the APC will not remain in that APC country 23. I bet you. Not most of them because the moment the ambitions are not met or guaranteed, they will defect. They are not doing it in the interest of the public. It's for certain reasons. It's for certain gains. And not of them are money buyers. So they cannot afford to finance or sponsor another political party. Let us use an Obama example. Who is the senator today? Who is also contested? In later ways, I'm telling you, why is it? Well, you realize that the ambition in the GDP will be very strong. Why is it so powerful? At this point, I'm trying to make it. Let's talk about, now that we're talking about other political parties. The former chairman of INEC, Professor Tahir Ujjigar, had a few words for Nigerians. And he did speak about the fact that Nigerians should dump the APC and the PDP because they have not served us since we decided to go down this road of democracy. And he also slid in the fact that he was also becoming a member of a certain political party that might not have been as big as the PDP and the APC. So my question now is, was all of the infighting and the big parties, do we see smaller parties emerging? Or like you said, maybe forming another front like the APC did. Do we see most of these politicians also moving to those smaller parties and trying to see if they can run? Because I asked the question yesterday, all of these parties, whether big or small, do they have ideologies? What are those ideologies? What do they stand for? And as you have said, since the politicians do not have ideologies, we keep criss-crossing. And why does that leave us as voters? We, the electorates, who have to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea? Do people really vote for political parties? That's where I call the Supreme Court judgment. But that's what we see on the ballot paper. We don't see the names of politicians. We see politicians. No, that's what I'm saying. That's why I call the Supreme Court judgment that says, you vote for political parties, I'm not going to be there. Marianne, we are not supposed to see ourselves. We all know that membership of a party is not planned on the ideology or constitution of that party. It is planned on your loyalty to a particular individual. I'm not the party. How do you mean? That's the truth about it. If I have a follower, and today, I'm a member, hypothetically, a member of WWW, the name of a political party, and I'm discussing to why, why, why, all my loyalists will follow me to why, why, why. They will not remain in WWW. That is the politics we play in Nigeria. So that's what I'm saying. Most of the, all the political parties are devoid of ideology. They should come up with, let me say, David Bowmy, the other part of the problem in this is because they have a KTNR community in Myanmar who is in, which is in view of their constitution. So nobody really will base constitution on nobody. It's fiddler to ideology. Nobody. It is all about the individual and personal interests. That's the point I am making. So if today, they'll know these money bags move from party A to party B. They are loyalists who move with them. And most of them can reach accommodation to say, okay, let us all support a particular candidate or particular candidate in some parties with our money and with our influence and with our clout. That is what we play out come 2023. So the victory of a party depends on the individual, not necessarily the parties constitutional, not necessarily the parties and procedures, not necessarily when the party can offer. Because if you talk of party, what does the APC offer? Nothing completely. What we have is cataclysmic leadership. Okay. Complete failure, this month's performance. So how is it based on rating on performance? What do the APC, how can the APC return to office in 2023? It's not possible. That's not possible. One last question before we wrap it up because we're out of time. We keep talking about the fact that these political parties have no ideologies and they have nothing to offer. But then we're asking Nigerians to become parts of these political parties so that their voices can also be heard and they can feel more represented other than wait till the party presents a candidate. So shouldn't we, as Nigerians who want to join political parties or shouldn't political parties in Nigeria start having the conversation about what the ideologies, the Klerkos ideologies are, as opposed to just moving from party A to B in order to strengthen the core of those parties instead of seeing these mass movements when it's close to election season? No. Membership of a political party does not really ensure change in that political party because you already have people with mindsets. You know, I mean, parties are ruled by leased laws. Those are called leased laws. You have the leased laws and you have the leased seven. So you already have those that are in charge of that political party and it is what they say that will be done, that will be carried out. So the only weapon the masses will have, the voters will have, is their voter card. And that is why we talk of electronic voters because at that point- Is that really a tool that they have? Because really, these parties have already decided whoever they want. They throw up whoever they want. That's what I'm saying. You may not necessarily be who we want. So really, do they have a choice? That's okay. That's the card. So that when you say Mr. A, come on by four hours, go and vote for Mr. A. We will all go there and vote for Mr. B. And once Mr. B, Mr. A is out of office, that is the way nothing they can do. Most of these governors come to, by next year, mid next year to end of next year, you see a lot of women resigning from their cabinet, from the office. I'm telling you, do I go to there? Not because they are happy with the system, but because to market infrastructure, they have to survive. That's why most of them are still there. And most of these governors are aware. So all we need is our voter's card. That is the weapon we have. So that we say, okay, fine, collect this money from this man. We are going to vote for Mr. A sir, but we step out to vote for Mr. B. That's really what we can effectively change. But if you think that just being a member of a party, what are you going to do? You're just there to carry out orders. They go into a closed dormitory, come out and tell you, this is what you want you to do. Go ahead and carry out this order. It's as simple as that. There is really nothing you can do. All right. And if you saw, they say, if you are that brilliant and you are that politically sad actually, why are you not the government? Why are you not the minister? Why are you not the president? These are the questions they ask you. But the method that they did what they did and it took them to where they are today, they believe they are sad actually, and it is the best thing to do. Opponaboy and Kotaura is a former special advisor to the governor of River State. Thank you very much for speaking with us. We really appreciate it. My pleasure, Marianne. Thank you. All right. We'll take a short break. And when we come back, of course, we will talk about the ABC member asking the court to annul the congresses that happened over last weekend and sack the Booney-led committee. Stay with us. We'll be right back.