 It's not, it's right now we're looking at Friday, but we're trying to find an earlier time, so okay. I mean, don't want to stop. No, it's just going to be the same meeting. We're trying to capture as many people, so it's fine. It's the same material. You sent it to, to one of the... I don't know who we sent it to. Yeah, it's just us working through his office to try it. Okay. Can I see anything? That's fine, Veronica. Good to have you here. Hi, I'm Cherise. Hi, I'm Cherise. I'm Rebecca. Rebecca. Nice to meet you. Oh, it's one minute. We had a few hours to be here. Cherise and you both were at the meeting that we did earlier. Okay. Thanks. So we do... You can weigh in, we try to... Rebecca. Rebecca, come over here. Is that, is that got it? Yeah, there's not a lot of people. Oh, no, we have another table. Oh, no, I don't know. It's fine. And I won't go... We'll have another meeting. Okay, is it... Yeah, government... Nobody knows... Yeah. It's from government, though, right? Yeah. Okay. But they said they would be able to make it. Yeah, but they're... Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so should we go ahead and start? Yes. Okay. Okay. We'll see you then. Get in there. I have my room, I'll see you later. Yeah. Okay. I'll get a little more chairs. No, that's my youngest. Okay. So, before we start, we'll go ahead and just do some introductions. I'm Marie Houston. I'm the Assistant City Manager. And I oversee the Center City Development Alley. Okay. ahead and introduce introduction. I'm Lori Houston, I'm the assistant city manager and I oversee the Center City Development Operations Department and so I am responsible for the Center City Housing and Center Policy in the inner city reinvestment and so that is why I'm involved in this project. I want to make sure that I provide a distinction between the affordable housing strategy that Veronica Soto and her team are working on and they'll be working on that over the next couple months and then becoming a council with that strategy in July of 2019 and that will be in alignment with the mayor's housing cast groups that was released a couple months ago and so what I'm presenting to you today are two tools that will be incorporated into that strategy but they're really two tools that we use to help with the economic development of the city of San Antonio. So they have two separate goals however we believe that the Center City Housing and Center Policy and the ICREP can both leverage affordable housing and so we've embedded those opportunities in this policy however Veronica Soto will be coming forward with a larger strategy that will address the low income housing tax credits and they will improve the CDBG funding, the home funding and then the other programs that we use like our RenewSA programs to help with affordable housing but I'm here specifically to talk about two policies which were the inner city reinvestment info policy in the Center City Housing and Center Policy and we are making changes to those at the request of city council in October of last year and actually it was several, was it October of last year or October of 2017 when the CCR was issued in 2017 when council member Brock House had issued a CCR asking that city staff look at these two incentive policies to look at the results and then later on that year Mayor Nuremberg had requested that we place a moratorium on the Housing and Center Policy to look at some of the opportunities we have with affordable housing so we started working on that immediately we've done two studies and they've made recommendations to the Economic and Workforce Council Committee as well as have several meetings with some neighborhood associations, neighborhood leaders, the nonprofit organizations and the developers to come up with this policy and so the first policy I want to talk about is the inner city reinvestment info policy and that is what you all refer to as the place where you get your feed waivers and so it's called the ICRA that was developed in 2010 it came out of the East Side Summit planning meetings that then council member Kaler had to look to see how we can incent reinvestment in the East Side and it identified an 84 square mile boundary and it was a place-based strategy that says basically if you build here you automatically get these feed waivers there wasn't any protections on the type of development in that boundary except it had exclusions for like financial institutions like predatory lending, liquor sales, those types of establishments that aren't neighborhood serving and so it has been successful we've issued about 11,000 feed waivers since its creation in 2010 and it has facilitated destruction over 10,000 housing units within that 84 square mile area of which 42% were considered affordable. Now this something that I want to stress is that even if you're not in this 84 square mile area you are still eligible to receive the feed waivers if you're an affordable housing project that's what the policy says today yes not in this this is the old policy the policy will go that I'm talking about the current policy so we'll get there and so what we're recommending is that we change it and we call it the city feed waiver program and we focus less on where we want the development but the type of development we want and so the only establishments that would be eligible to receive feed waivers would be affordable housing and I'll define that in the next slide owner occupied rehab we heard that there was a lot of need for that through the mayor's housing task force public meetings historic rehabilitation and then business business development and legacy and so it's no longer a play space within the 84 square mile area we've eliminated the boundary and we've said you're only going to get a fee waiver if you're affordable housing or occupied rehab housing historic rehab or business development and what this does is it really prevents someone from going into a neighborhood purchasing a couple lots and building multifamily for profit development and so we were able to provide some level of neighborhood protection by limiting the types of uses that you can use for the fee waivers now affordable housing it's only available for nonprofits or private developers whose mission is to construct affordable housing and you have to be qualified by our housing and neighborhood services department so they're a so-called on their team they know our for-profit and not-for-profit developers they can review their mission and they can tell us yes they do meet this mission and they have to have at least 50% of those units at affordable and the rate needs to be at least 25% at or below 60% or 25% and that's city-wide the the old policy affordable was basically the 50% under 80% I mean it really was loosely defined we've we've created a strict definition and this is an alignment with the needs of the house housing cast schools we see that there is a greater need for the 60% or below but there is still a need for the 80% or below for that workforce and so we're promoting that this is the at minimum you have to have this product to be able to get the fee we receive is up to $250,000 in your sauce and up to 100% of your city which is a cap it is what it is it's usually about 1% of your project cost and then the I defined affordable for the rental the affordable for the for sale is between 60 and 120% and that's the sweet spot as defined in the mayor's house and cast schools so are you using the HUD for the HUD yes okay which actually for San Antonio proper puts that at 100 to 150 yes so we had a large discussion with us and now profit housing developers want us to use the HUD because that allows them to layer the other incentives and so Habitat for Humanity and all of our requests and we need to use the HUD standards because when they are accessing federal tools and federal loans that's the standards they use so we make it more difficult when we don't use that sure but couldn't be lower than to reflect what we look at that but we are going to keep it at the at these levels but we will be measuring it to make sure that we're meeting certain goals what is HUD am I 100% it's San Antonio San Antonio is like 80% 20% 80% would be 100% no give me numbers 80% so 100% am I in San Antonio is around 55 right so what is HUD so if you're looking at about 64 I think and then 80% of that is 48 correct what I know that 80% for that San Antonio MSA is more than 100% for San Antonio yes and what I was explaining is that we've worked a lot of non-profit housing developers are requesting lists credentialed animal group Habitat for Humanity they requested we stick with what HUD wants because but we are still going to be measuring the impact but we are not going to that's we want to have the same guidelines as HUD so I buy a homeowner on the west side legacy working on working family how does that fit in with the fact that now you have HUD so no the HUD has nothing to do you don't have to have your project your head doesn't have to be involved in your project it's just they're using the same guidelines that HUD uses I don't know how so so what she's saying is where they're going to use HUD because they're mandated to use it but you know some of us some of the position it is then it's not really affordable by local standards myself it says 80% but when they say 80% am I literally saying the local so so I have a just to give some thoughts of numbers if you're looking for a family of four the HUD guideline and 80% is 53,000 for free that's based on 2018 numbers that's twice the average family income on the west side 12,000 and if you were to use the city guidelines 80% family for city center new it's 46,000 almost 75 people so there's a different so if I could get through the policy the so you can because I think some of your questions will be answered how long is this in place so they they might open okay we're doing affordable housing but it's it's for the term of their agreement so typically it's 10 or 15 years so I want to make sure we're talking about fee waivers we're not talking about any tax rebates or anything so it's gone this is this is this is fee waivers once we get to the tax rebates and things like that that's a different policy the fee waiver policy what we're doing is we're eliminating the opportunity for that market rate housing developer to go into neighborhoods buy homes knock them down and build a multi-family market rate project I'm saying we're limiting that but so what you know she's saying we don't want it yeah that's the goal so this is just strictly the fee waiver this is not the seat your program the fee waiver program is a fee waiver program that provides fees to help redevelop certain areas one time one time only and it's a small amount up to 250,000 in fee waivers and we're saying you can have that provided you meet a definition of affordability owner occupied rehab you get the fee waivers if you're if you were going through one of our repairs programs that the housing and neighborhood services department or one of our nonprofit providers sponsors this is something new we didn't have that in the other one and this is something we heard that people if they were trying to improve their home they need they would like access to the fee waivers and they were meeting assistance to the city to be able to stay in their home so this is something new that we've added to this program a lot the other one is historic rehab if you were doing a historic rehab and I think you think you're the one is that it's you have to be eligible to be designated you do not have to be designated because yeah we added that language because we don't want some people don't want to be designated and then the last one is something that Renee Dominguez and his team is working on if that's something we need to address once you let's talk about that what is he is eligible to be designated as a story we can see where if the structure is held to be eligible to be designated as a story so we can clarify that if you're concerned about the district there's parts of the west side should often you have the same is right so making sure that there that historic area is so do you want the area the entire area eligible I don't think you do I'm historic or it's not a conversation yeah I'd like to talk about it because story so I have to be on the path to the story for example you don't have to have it designated it needs to be eligible to be eligible so that means eligible for legacy I'm eligible for so 50 years or older so if you were to build read it up your home and make you work it's not designated and you were going through one of our but my house was built so you said yes but not everything has to be 50 to be out there are other ways to be out if you it's if there's a cultural significance and it goes to the west side we will we will it so are you saying you want the whole west side to be eligible or you only want structures I'm trying to understand so are you saying that you want all the west side to be eligible for this this part of the fee way of the fee waiver program regardless of use so they're gonna build a liquor store in a building that can be redeveloped you want them to get fee waivers if it's a historic I mean the way sorry doesn't make sure works as we don't get to dictate what kind of business you put there but but if it's eligible for a historic say you've got this building and it's it's eligible and somebody wants to put in a liquor store there and they want to get the fee waiver do you want that not that so much that do you not want that considered historic but do you want that person to get well see to me I feel like if you if you think that's a problem then there's a problem with the policy no I don't think it's a problem I'm just yeah I'm hearing calm I'm hearing conflicting where someone to be more strict and someone to be open and so I have it drafted as if it's eligible to be designated and someone's going to go and invest in that property they should get the fee waiver that's how it's drafted what a liquor store be eligible otherwise I don't I'm there are certain class okay I don't know liquor store but there's like a restaurant which it's your liquor yes but a convenience store or you know a convenience store that are liquor store or they would also be up to it's not dependent on it doesn't say it just is owners of residential commercial structures so there's no restrictions on the kind of minutes that there's anything to do with numbers when 7-11 wanting to buy a malt house which was designated historic they said they couldn't deal with that building that they had to tear it down to go there so even though there's a 7-11 and historic building in downtown San Antonio even though there are 7-11's historic buildings all over New England but they said on the website oh no we can't put our 7-11 in a historic building we have to knock it down and build a generic looking 7-11 so perhaps if this had been a place they would have not knocked down the malt house and instead put their 7-11 in the malt house well they went about the fee waiver for it that's an issue of historic designation and how much control historic has a definition demolition which is separate from this program so can I ask a quick question about clarification so it says maximum fee waiver based on business eligibility criteria so is there I guess that's why I'm confused is there a criteria that so not for others like and that is so for the historic rehab that's we're focusing on now it's very loose on that one okay but there is a larger program that Ramey Dominguez is working on that will come back and talk about the eligibility and where it goes in the regional centers that's in line with the regional centers and that's taking a separate path in this now the one thing that's part of the business development is if you're a legacy business as qualified by historic preservation so you go through and I think it's more than 20 years you're eligible for the fee waivers to expand so that that is something that we've incorporated in our side Ramey Dominguez is currently working on the regional center of classification and looking to see you know is it small business development that gets certain fee waivers in certain areas is industry development so that's taking a separate path but and we're focusing primarily on affordable housing the owner occupant rehab the historic rehab and in the legacy business but right now it's drafted as if you're eligible for designated you're putting a restaurant in there you get it you don't have to be designated but you would be eligible because we want someone to invest in that building you want them to invest in that area so you're right you're the entire west side basically eligible to be designated this I want to distress on the housing side this is something that we learned a lot through our neighborhood discussions we had initially said if you are going to be doing a short-term rental in your housing development you would not be eligible for the fee waiver program and when we went through some neighborhood associations they said wait a minute I ran a room and I live in the house and that helps me make my housing and so what we've done is we've said that you're in elderboard for a short-term rental permit if you're a type 2 property which is non-owner occupied it's an investment and so we're allowing type 1 properties where I rent my room and make a mark I live there that's helping me make ends meet and so I want to stress these changes are really made to help with that neighborhood preservation component because we saw a lot of people going in getting their fees waives for rezoning to redevelop some market rate housing on two or three lots in the neighborhood and we're saying if you're going to redevelop housing it has to meet our affordable definition and or it has to be under one of our affordable housing order occupied rehab programs that are either done through housing and neighborhood services or through one of our non-profit partners yes ma'am I'm sorry I'm going backwards because I just want to make sure I understand so if I have a building on the west side it's a story but it's not destination story and somebody comes in a liquor store just to make it and you we get a fee waiver do they have to follow you know do they have to go to hdrc or OHP to make sure that building is restored in according with its history or can they just restore it anyway if they go through so the OHP process for for designation if it's eligible to be designated even sometimes I think this happened with the seven that was a 711 already designated so the mall house was already designated so let's say the mall house wasn't designated someone could apply for it to get designated and then it has to go through a hearing and that goes through hdrc and then that goes to council you're talking about an individual property yes rather than a historic district so it's just the property yes we're only talking about the property so there'd be no HOP to tell me I have to have purple on the outside so they would not get the fee waiver unless it was gone to that process no it could so let's say I know it's not so let's say you have a house and it's over 50 years old it's not designated you want to do some renovations Shannon Miller's office will say yes it's eligible for designation they won't initiate the designation process but they just want we want someone to live in the neighborhood we want people to invest in the neighborhoods and so we would grant them the fee waiver now that does not preclude what's your name Jen Jen from going and filing an application for it to be designated and if that were to happen it would go through the process but if that doesn't happen okay but if it doesn't happen Jen have to adhere to no if it doesn't happen she could hear it down but she would still get the historic credits even though she's not I'm not getting this this isn't for historic credit this is just for the fee waiver nobody would get the historic rehab fee waiver even though she's not following the start she would get the saws water fee waiver in the city even because the building is eligible not because it's not because it's designated because it's because so say her property is 75 years old but it's not designated so she gets the waiver but she decides she wants to demolish it and because it's not designated there's no restrictions on the demolishing then she demolishes it and builds something entirely different what's to prevent that from happening and so if she demolishes it let's say it's a story if she demolishes she's not rehabbing no she's not you have to keep the property so how do you you've already given the rehab versus reconstruction so she she has to read what how it's going to happen that's not historically and applying for this because they're eligible to apply for it but they don't have to follow any particular guidelines because there's no historic destination and that's what we don't want so how how do we prevent that and so what we'll work with the opposite is to the preservation because they're the ones who would have to the project falling under these criterias and so when they submit for eligibility have to show what they're they're doing as well and so it is rehab versus reconstruction we could put some strings attached as we get permits and so we can get back to you on the more like more details on how Shannon's office so the control would be by the permit yes and we can always have a opportunity where after they build it we go back and if they didn't do what they said they were going to do and recapture but I see our neighborhood being bought up by investors the only thing that's protecting it is this because I was what I've heard from the neighborhood was exactly what Pete said some people just don't want to get designated sure and that makes sense and I wouldn't try to push the neighborhood I just want to make sure that we're not inadvertently giving fee waivers to investors who are going to tear down or completely change a historic house that was only eligible because it was historic so I just want to make sure there's a control in there so flip and get fee waivers yeah exactly a bad that's a perfect example a really bad flip and getting that's exterior honestly what they do to the interior I don't care but the exterior if it's not truly I want to be able to support the person living in the house not necessarily the investor that just wants to flip the house I think we can find a solution to that I think we want to avoid the situation where you know my grandmother wants to have her house redone and there's a sauce fever and she can't get that fee waiver even though the home is old and rehab and she goes to that process but now there's a long-term commitment where she can convert or demo her home even though it might be 10 years later we don't want to put some sort of long-term tie on a fee waiver that was up in front not for a not for an individual home you know I think that's that's handcuffing that homeowner that's a store property those are way different but I don't think this mechanism really put that sort of handcuff or restriction on an individual home but I think there's a policy solution we can look at historic rehab or investors I think we can find a solution pretty certain and just to clarify we're not actually offering incentives for the rehab work it's just a waiver of the fees they would still have to find owner occupied rehab does through housing and neighborhood services or through those nonprofits they actually provide funds to also help with the rehab but the historic it's really just so realistic this is gonna be like a sauce fee waiver for a homeowner it's gonna be like putting an addition on to the house that requires to the sauce fee waiver isn't gonna be an issue for existing home yeah it's the city fee waiver when you're extending your home and things like that right so it's it's not the saws it's going to be used well any of the fee so as a homeowner what would I say I was not historic and I wanted to I have but I have a strictly eligible home I want to put on an addition to my house how would this program at the fee waiver program just typically so when I did my home first wide I didn't get any fee waiver but whenever you have my home you I paid probably about two to five thousand dollars in fees for the extension the complete rehab if you were to do that what they would do is they'll grant you a letter and you give that to your contractor or whoever's doing your home when they go to pay the fees they they share that letter and say I'm redeveloping this home and they don't charge you that fees like permit fees okay thank you because I actually just did a thousand square foot addition on our home and it's historic and we didn't pay five thousand dollars occupy I didn't know about the waivers as well so but that would be you would get a letter your developer who was doing your contract or as he has that and when he goes to development services yeah there's a letter they look up in the system it would be yes and that's typically how we catch and what this does just simply lowers your cost to rehab just hope that you're working closely with OHP so that these programs can be packaged with what they already have because I mean honestly this is okay but if you get your for new designations the benefit for our new designation is far better and that's why we want it to go through OHP this isn't upfront it's basically cash of real-world project costs it would be more reasonable than that here and if they don't do what they did they either don't get the disbursement or they have to pay it so the city fee waiver program you know our goal is really to kind of focus on the development needs of the community prioritize housing affordability and affordable housing for owner-occupied rehab programs preserve and protect neighborhoods through unwanted development and type two short-term rentals support our other city policies I say tomorrow and the mayor's housing cost course and then we also heard that we want a lot of people were concerned when they went to like habitat for him and he's a great example they do homes within a year like they can build a home within six months easy and so they will come back to us and say I need a fee waiver or we're out a few weeks for that year and so we've done as we develop protected pots of funding that will be for affordable housing and then we have a fun for historic rehab then we have a fun for the the C chip that way we can cover that affordable housing comes on it and then we're going to try to leave some wiggle room to where let's say that affordable housing needs more money but we have money in the C chip we can do some transferring but it was something to where you didn't have too large industry developer projects or downtown housing projects it would come in and eat up that entire time and there wasn't anything left so we work very closely on that and I'll talk more about that budget application the next one you came in a little late once okay I'm glad you're here Veronica Soto is going to be she's working on her view the affordable housing strategy and that's going to be coming to council in June of 2019 the affordable housing strategy is going to be addressing you know the mayor's housing task force reports and looking at the strategy to meet those goals and it'll look at the low income housing tax credit nine percent four percent it'll look at the CDBG home the neighborhood our RSA programs all that it'll include the C chip and include the ICRIP the ICRIP in the C chip the ICRIP today I think there's more concerns about the neighborhood preservation component with how the ICRIP works right now and so we wanted to go forward and fix that and then the C chip is on the moratorium no development has occurred downtown and so we needed to go forward and amend that policy the other policy they're going to be coming back in June and they'll be a very comprehensive policy so I don't want people that confuse the C chip and ICRIP as the affordable housing strategy for the city of San Antonio and so we developed the economic development strategy which is a C chip the real the thought behind it was you want to create a 24-7 neighborhood you do that by creating housing more housing provides more disposable income or disposable income creates the neighborhood that so it creates that retail that you need to support a neighborhood and then when she create that retail that's more in line with neighborhood support services versus hotel then you've created the neighborhood where employers want to go and so it helps us overall with our economic development strategy so it was not focused on housing alone it was how do we redevelop our downtown that has an imbalance of 14,000 housing 14,000 hotel rooms and only 3,300 housing units and it's basically tourist driven all of our retail you'll never have a problem finding a coon skin cap or a coffee mug with the cost of real umbrellas on it but if you need food you need a grocery store you need daycare the services aren't downtown and so the thought was saturate it with that housing that'll help promote the retail service to create the neighborhood the next slide just want to stress that downtown housing development is challenging you all know this who live in downtown neighborhoods the the land prices are higher two to three times higher than other markets and construction costs are higher because of parking garages versus surface parking lots you have historic buildings that we want to preserve and that that is more costly you have zoning requirements like the river permits overlaying that requires you to give so much sunlight to a river which requires you to change your design rental rates that we have don't support the land prices we have age public infrastructure and then the shapes are not nice and square rectangular they're triangular they're very challenging shape parcel so it's just really challenging to develop in downtown that's why we needed the incentives so in 2012 City Council approved the as a bright incentive package and it provided city and saw speed waivers and as a bright basis and those were funded through the general fund that is the city pay waivers and the saw speed waivers saw as appropriate spending annually the tax reimbursement grant was only on your add the warm taxes that the developer paid so it's not the city general fund taxes it's a developer they pay their taxes they get reimbursed we've provided a low interest loaner grant based on the level of units or affordability and that those were all done as right so basically if you built two or more housing units in this area you automatically get this it was successful we provided $1.4 billion in investment $2 million in incentives the majority of that was the tax rebate $1.2 million 75% of it is a tax rebate the rest were the fee waivers and the loans $17 million or $25 million were saw speed waivers and then the rest were the city fee waivers in the city so very little general fund dollars went in to help support these these units was primarily the tax rebates we helped facilitate 6,800 housing units of which 23% were affordable we have retail and 28,000 square feet of office the housing that was developed also helped create a redeveloped property so we had ground-field sites with real perceived environmental contamination you had seven sites that were in the vacant building registry program that have been vacant for years and you also have 13 sites that were in service parking lots so the incentives did help redevelop property otherwise would not have been and then there was also an annual net revenue to the city or the community as a result of this and so even though we are foregoing what a bit of taxes SCISD after all these projects are developed will receive sixteen point two million dollars in taxes and then after the rebates burn off the total taxes and after they grow because we're doing inflation we have two percent every year SISD will get 23.5 so it's going to help the the school district the city of San Antonio our investment year one we'll get 2.2 million in city taxes which is about six times more than we're getting before the properties are developed and then year 16 after the rebates expire we're getting 10 so we are getting a high return on the investment and with the city invested we're foregoing about 5.7 million annually but the project returns about $39.9 annually to the community as a result of what it's paying to the school districts and the city of San Antonio and the other taxes so there's a larger term I think so what if the properties that receive these incentives are sold before year 16 what they're sold in three years it depends on who they're sold to and so if right now it reads that if you sell so like NRP they have blue star so they sell their property that if they don't sell it to a subsidiary then either council has to proactively reassign the contract so has to go to council or that the contract is terminated we can do it administratively we can we can assign an administrative way but all of the provisions within the agreement have to have to pass on so they have to you know read whatever criteria was set on the original agreement they have to submit all the paperwork is it was set in the original agreement and if they don't want to do that then the tax rebates would expire they sold the project in year four the rest of the tax rebates would go to the project because they wouldn't have agreed to assign all of the provisions in the contract but if they make money on the sale of the property and they don't continue that tax agreement does the city make any of that money back because essentially the city is an investor in these projects and so how are they recovering that investment if the property is sold before the term for giving the taxes back so if they sell it at year four they start paying taxes year five or we keep their taxes all of them instead of rebating them to develop their work okay but what about the first four years where you weren't getting any taxes they keep those they so they're paying their taxes we're rebating the portion that the city would have kept they keep that rebate and so that is our investment for them taking the risk to develop the site but they're not getting the rest of the rebate and we've got the housing units all the other taxing entities get paid taxes at the higher rate versus the pre-developed costs so what if they were the rest of the charts keep the same but what if they were supposed to be reserved for affordable housing units and then they sell it and the new owners and use them as market rate so that's not in this policy right now so this is the old policy we're speaking to the current so right now if someone under the old policy we don't have those provisions in so okay so can we speak to the new policy should we address those questions like those same questions are they going to be addressed in the new policy what I would like to talk about the new policy yeah I mean like I mean the old policy but I want to know the new policy is going to be to address these questions so let's go to slide 8 so we'll actually slide page 8 slide 15 is that what you're proposing? okay and so what we're recommending is we're extending the program for two years and then re-evaluate the market and the incentives and we're going to align the policy with essay tomorrow planning efforts the mayor's housing task force recommendations and focus on density and affordability what we've done is remove any area that has urban low density residential and medium density residential from the boundaries so if it's a neighborhood it's not eligible for the so if you are a single family neighborhood even though you're in the boundary you're not eligible because you're not zoned to be able to receive these incentives the land use is not consistent so no one can buy it go in your neighborhood buy homes and get these incentives and then what we did is for the downtown area we've created two levels and looked at the market rate supply the rental rate and demand prices and then for the regional centers we have a different formula we're using and we'll go over that as well as transportation so we have two boundaries we're two three tiers we're looking at level one is basically the central business district you'll get a higher amount of incentives level two are the adjacent areas around downtown you'll get a little bit less incentive and then level three are the essay tomorrow regional centers something to note about the essay tomorrow regional centers you're not eligible to receive any incentives if you're in the essay tomorrow regional center until city council has adopted your land use plan that has gone through the community process and so we want to make sure that we're in alignment with what the community wants to see for land use so tiers one and tier two those of you available immediately tier three as those land use plans get adopted then you'd be eligible to receive incentives can you tell me how many of the regional centers have gone through I know that the midtown has done with any of the other ones midtown and downtown are the two that are probably the furthest but then the rest the rest Brooks is probably the next closest and that won't get adopted until right in the spring so we wanted to make sure that these any incentives are in line with the land use that the community so let's go to the bottom of slide nine page nine slide 18 so you have to be in the boundary and which means you have to be zoned all projects are subject to design review regardless of them being designated as historic so if you're going to receive any incentives through this policy you have to go through the historic and design commission so they can review the design and then projects require rezoning from single family residential or not eligible unless later on through the SA tomorrow planning efforts those regional centers the community specifically rezones that single family do something I don't know where that would happen but we didn't want to say never so if the community says yes I shouldn't be zoned single family and it gets rezone then it would be eligible so there's a lot of property from the west side and I think there's a lot of that they're zoned multifamily but they're actually single family homes sitting on them that speaks to existing youth so if you are zoned a within uses be such a single family I would say if there's a single family dwelling on this site regardless of zoning then that would mean you could not knock down that single family and if it was like an ms-33 in an urban low density neighborhood which that exists a lot it's not eligible because of the land use but perhaps it wasn't a higher density area but the existing conditions a single family exactly what you described we are putting language in the policy that's come up from a couple of other places yeah good part of the west westside plus maniki park and it's all a mf-33 with single family so those would be protected and then these are the density requirements I'm not going to read those to you you're ineligible for short-term rental permit type 2 agreements be posted to a public online database projects including a hotel component are not eligible and so if you're building condos on top in a hotel you would not be eligible for the right the luxury units so the for sale any for sale product over $360,000 would not receive a fee would not be eligible yes and the reason why $360,000 is that's based on the amount of federal housing administration and mortgage loan that's the largest amount you could get and so most of the town homes are the exception of Tarenark like Charlie Turner would be ineligible but this would allow those his his town homes and products like that are like three bedroom tube out for greater families is providing any density that's good anything above that so anything like the $500,000 condos or $4 million condos are not eligible and that changes the FHA rate changes each year so that's something we can tie to federally so there's a concern under their requirements for level 2 which is going to be in the west side this is trying to present ordinance and for five stories provided its own hook this doesn't there's no buildings that top of the line that would just be insane no one would ever build it if it's so well I wouldn't put a pass I mean I mean it doesn't um SAFA proposed building a building over on my so the west side it could jump but recall it has to go through design review process if it were to get incentive so it's not to say that could never happen we're just saying that the city wouldn't incentivize that unless it went through the design review process which means we have to have public input you really think the city was going to tell SAFA no sure it doesn't have to be a good citizens the only reason that didn't happen is because they didn't have a grant they wanted yeah the choice grant right now at 816 they purchased two big properties they're talking about lofts paje lofts or something like that and that's right under that's right on Colorado and Guadalupe and they purchased those lofts they want to build on high rights they want to build on high rights so can we go back to that I want to finish this slide because I know you have to leave I want to make sure everybody's aware so the for sale products cap of 360 we have a federal guideline we can track that with but that prohibits the the ultra luxury condos like the artist residents and others from getting the incentive did you work with any developers on developing this policy yes which communities have you met with well we've met with several this is new as of the conversation with B session and so we have a lot of developers want to make sure that they can develop something so we have talked to the development community the nonprofit community and then we're meeting in the neighborhood the nonprofit community the corporate community as well I think it would be I would really like to see more public input on this especially since the city is taking input from the development community I like that you're putting a cap but even 360 is high especially for parts in the different levels in level one in level two especially that's really high well that's a cap it doesn't mean they can't sell it for less and that's so this goes back to this is an economic development tool this is an affordable housing strategy and so we are looking at all the downtown regional center areas but there's concern that this is an economic development for the people that live there now it's actually a sort of tool for this placement if you look at it from that line so for example the units across the street from and he said it would have been eligible still under this yes because they're a little bit less than that but you'd also demolish multiple houses and you go in an area like the west side it would be a disaster it could be difficult the irony of it is that the reason that those areas are deteriorated is because of all the policy all of the areas in tier two were previously red-lined areas so they're completely denied any kind of investment for most of the 20th century which meant that the values are incredibly low so we just set this up we set this up through policy now we're going to come back in with policy and I think a lot of people's fears is not as much not as much as the tier two when it goes into the neighborhoods we've created this perfect storm and it's not just a natural economic process we actually created this so that those places now are so devalued and then we add incentive dollars for this kind of redevelopment it could result in tremendous displacement and not just not just house by house but because of the externalities that are going to be involved in the whole process the policy does not incentivize displacement so if there is housing there already and someone's living there through externalities I just want to make sure I don't know if this applies but what would make more sense would be reflective of what the current value of the neighborhood properties are so if you're building five units for 290,000 that you're going to sell them for but they're next to a bunch of single-family homes that are worth only 180,000 which we see in a lot of neighborhoods that's going to drive up the values in the area which is going to lead to displacement so it's very, like 360 is not high for Kubele it's very, very high for most of the west side and so that basically means any development of the luxury and it's also my understanding that the Neighborhood Housing Services Department is working on a displacement policy which was a recommendation of the Mayor's Housing Policy Boardwork but that it's not completed yet and I'm not really sure how we can have confidence in this before that we'll see that I don't want to stress this is not this would not allow someone to buy an existing apartment complex kick people out and renovate and build a new market for housing, we would not allow that but that's not the only way but I just want to make sure that we're clear on that but that's not the policy will not decide I think we understand that I think it's more concerning that I think the concern is that when these new properties are being built a piece of big property that's fine except for if it's a very expensive it's going to raise the land value of the properties around it which as we all know any homeowner in Texas knows when our property needs to go up, our taxes go up significantly and that's when you're going to start having displacement or you're going to have owner occupied housing that is now they're very stressed because they can't afford to keep up their homes so high and that's where it's going to create displacement indirectly so would you rather not have incentives for any percent? No, I didn't say that I would rather have some more community input on what this policy and program should look like and like something that's more reflective of the individual community and not the such link it policy for the city and I do think since the city did take the time to get input from the development community they should give the same respect to their footprint. I do want to stress that I did have a meeting with this group early on and I offered to go to each one of your neighborhood associations I have done that but not for input No I did and I incorporated some of the input that you gave me and also I just wanted to make sure I know but I want to stress that for you to say that we didn't have any input is incorrect because I did meet with the groups we met with we offered to go to every neighborhood association we met with several neighborhood associations we did take input so No I know you did and I'm not saying that you didn't I'm saying that we need more time and we need more community input I'm not saying you didn't give input I mean you had someone come to Tobinil we met before I know that we have made a lot of effort to meet with various neighborhood associations but I think that we have some recent very good examples of community input like with the Mayor's Housing Policy Task Force and I think that that would be something that would be beneficial here I also know you mentioned that there have been two studies done I was wondering if I could get information on those studies Will we attach to the B session member now? Okay so will it be available We've made them public already but they'll be readily available They're probably a legislator Okay I think this is new and I'm glad it's there because it wasn't there but it's not with what I share with my neighborhood because it didn't exist before so we're actually meeting tonight and we're going to share it but I do think knowing what the C of Street Town Homes that oh okay this makes sense but knowing what the building's right across the street from Anisa's house which were substantially less than that but completely changed the dynamic of that street because there are suddenly six very imposing structures in a place where there was just one before so having something that's more reflective of the neighborhood even though that's a lot more work it makes sense because I mean as you know something that's worth 500,000 in one part of the city would get you to find whatever was across the street so we've made that change But if I may add Anisa and everybody else we all have the poorest sense as well it is scary for us and Kristi do we have a good point about what you talked about um would there be a survivor? I mean this would not be at all and that's why it's got to be reflective of the community because commuting on west side has very different limits or a very different situation than even Tobin Hill on making park and I'm going to talk to my residents here soon telling them this right here so where on the west side so within this this area right here and one of your slides which we skipped but it was about the expansion of UTSA's downtown campus we are so nervous on the west side about that because I mean as you state there are expected additional 11,000 students, 1,500 faculty and staff there's no way those people are going to keep themselves just a downtown proper and we're right next door to that and you said that this placement happens in all kinds of ways and I really want to stress that because sometimes this placement happens because you know you're trying to increase educational access but the unintended consequence of that was forcing people out of the neighborhood they've been in for generations and again I think this displacement policy needs to be hashed out publicly before we move forward with this there's just too much upstate the UTSA when we went forward we did require them to do a displacement plan before they move forward with base 2 so that is a requirement but there also wasn't a lot of community input I heard that was a backdoor deal I was in a backdoor deal take it the way it is I know I want I do outreach in the community I do a lot there my councilwoman I'll be honest with you I've never heard anything my association never heard anything and it's just one of those things where how come we didn't have input for that so we can at least be a part of that because downtown is one of our mountains it's boundary it doesn't have I'm sorry but that's the feeling that we feel disrespected we don't know anything we have a zero community input from the west side of the UTSA zero just to list it out we demanded that the department had got it and he openly said I don't understand what the concern is I don't know anything about this area and I don't even know you guys existed in this area and I'm not making that up don't move don't move I mean that's the way our community is being treated so it's so important that there be one community outreach and that it happened in the evening because people at work right now this is a really difficult time I mean something might have to go with my song because it's a very difficult time but this is a really difficult time for anybody who's working this is like I'm sure convenient if it's your job so you're at regular business hours but for most of us and all our previous meetings were held in the evening but just trying to quickly get something on we're not trying to I was trying to just react to get a meeting so I'll stay as long as we want and we can have more meetings in the evenings but I think that would be great I don't think anyone's trying to discount what you've done I think we're saying we just want more opportunity for our communities to have them but without the respect don't speak for me what I'm saying is I'm going to put it on the table it's a hard time for us right now on the other side we barely can keep ourselves afloat and here we come with the 365 we could never make that money in ages and I have to say that because I'm here for our residents and we're struggling and I'm doing this voluntarily so I'm not even working for that part right so for me it's different because of the poor census books I'm going to say it again $12,000 for a family I just have to say that we might be the same but we're not the same situation like the west side so a developer can come in and build a bunch of townhouses and sell them for $150,000 which would not be surprising some of the west side especially like close as you get to low star area where the prices have gone up they would easily do that they would get all the incentives but by doing that they displace everybody in the neighborhood that have been there for generations and that's not exactly true for a family who was displaced so our situations are always different Lori I invite you for a tour on the west side I've done tours I can give you my personal tour but what I'm saying is it's different so nobody speaks for the west side as you know the west side because I was born and our residents are hardworking people passionate about what we do so just let me see what we got on the west side is we have the poorest people in the city living on the most valuable land and that's an incredible irony and because this is an economic development policy and not a housing policy it makes complete sense that we would want to use that land for high surface use but we build San Antonio but I want to stress we're looking at if it's only a zone appropriately and so what's to stop someone from speculatively rezoning before they balance we've said that, we've made that ineligible if you have to rezone before they sell that so if if it was rezoned within the past we're down five years from single family it can't be redeveloped it doesn't it was since 2016 so if you've rezoned your property from single family since 2016 you're not going to be this is a zone I'm at there already is it's running appropriately right now and we were told that yeah they're going to get around to another big blanket rezoned but it's going to be years because they don't have the capacity to do all of these large cases so if there's a single family dwelling already on it then it's ineligible so we have that in this so if the existing use of single family it's not a okay just fight the zone okay that's good and I appreciate like you're thinking ahead on a lot of things I think a lot of the question is coming in as far as not the one for one displacement but more that the externality German displacement and I wish that we had a really better understanding in that process because when we think about UTSA you know I automatically my head go to UT Austin and UT Austin is surrounded by old beautiful neighborhoods that you know some of the housing stock actually looks like the west side but it's all student divided up housing right so that's how vulnerable those areas are same thing around the capital it's all old neighborhoods no residential whatsoever so there's the UTSA thing but then there's also just the externality of new construction and how is that like can we figure out can we determine how is that impacting I know you've done economic development studies Steve Newman is the best in town but he did an economic development study right and we haven't looked at some of these some of the externality and social impacts of it at all UTSA is actually required is there a way to delay this until we get the results of the studies to see what has happened since 2012 when Sea Chip was first launched because I think that a lot of the neighborhoods where Sea Chip has been successful economically have been really destabilized in the last few years and I think it would be interesting to see what what kind of impact that has had on the community besides the economic impact so right now we are proposing to take this to council next Thursday and so we're going to a B session and then we'll have a public hearing and we go to council I would like to take both the feed waiver and the Sea Chip program and so we're not changing the schedule at this point we're going to continue to do some more refakes and we're meeting with more stakeholders on this but the displacement and the affordable housing strategy is coming after and as I mentioned SA Tomorrow plans, you're not eligible for any incentive until you've gone through that regional planning process right, I mean is there what is the rush like why do we have to take it in the next week to four weeks to council instead of waiting until we can see what the impact has already been we've had no development in Dail Dail since we put a moratorium no development or has it just not been there's no housing housing projects that have come through and it's on the books at this point since this project has gone through a moratorium everything that's under construction already had an incentive package where everything has gone through council so it hasn't gone through we have had development that went through council it just didn't go through as of right but since this is an as of right program doesn't it make sense to take our time to make sure that we have it right before we implement it instead of putting it through and then trying to retroactively see if everything's okay I think why is there to hold off on this continue to let projects go through council which they have been all year going through council and hold off on the as of right program until we know that it is aligned with the whole city including community members and staff believes it is not even going through public input for the past six months and so we will continue to do that and we have not, right now it's still planned to go to council next Thursday but it's who's to say that it's not perfect I'm saying I know it's nothing perfect but we have gone through quite a bit of public input so I think with all the respect I want to say there's a difference between a briefing and public input and I think this of the briefing our meeting before was a briefing when someone came to our community association it was a briefing but we were given information but we didn't have enough information to even know what questions to ask and I feel like now is the time for public input which is different that's when we give you feedback we consider this isn't public input this is a briefing I think that this is a culmination of several public input efforts that have been going along through essay tomorrow we'll be present at all those meetings how is this meeting advertised because to my knowledge this meeting that we're at because we were just invited this isn't public this is just for you all to get more targeted public input we have been having several stakeholder meetings individually because there are different needs so who are the stakeholders that you've been meeting with individually the non-profit community we've met with all the non-profits both for profit and not for profit so I would say that the community are stakeholders as well this is the second official meeting that was very specifically invited to a public meeting the expectation is that we would then take it to our community for more feedback and I think the feedback we're giving you now at least some of us is that this is very rushed because there's some significant complications that could come out of this that need to be addressed such as the displacement specifically related to UTSA I had thought about that but how the displacement is going to affect the community should this program as it is going to play I think it's a good program and on paper it's fine until I start to look at certain neighborhoods and so my recommendation representing my community would say hold off we need to find out what the impact is going to be in these specific areas before we start incentivizing more projects particularly with the Mayor's Housing Task Force and now Cubs Study and Vulnerability both ask for impact studies before we start this and so what that's six months and I know that's you know there are other things involved but there is a fear I mean that things that look positive in our experience for neighborhoods often have had disastrous results and we think of them later as unintended consequences but they aren't so unintended and we keep ringing them up and then they don't you know no one pays attention to them so and there seems to be the Russian that keeps about putting to the side what Soto is working on and they should be done together and they're not and unfortunately they're not but could this one be slowed down to get caught up with the affordable housing? If the detriment of downtown development but I don't think that that's detrimental the thing is there has been development in the last year it just had to go through city council it wasn't as of right it wasn't as quickly but that allows more public input and I don't think that's a bad thing and if we're going to put an as of right policy back into play it needs to be right for everyone that's the feedback our community is it a possibility that that level yeah that level two could be that we could work on an impact study and level one which is the downtown? I need to better understand the impact study because we've already committed to doing an impact study for UTSS that is a project that is dollars we understand what's happening there so you can do an impact study now come with me when are they going to be here? they said now kept they were talking about he was trying to find he was going to have a meeting with them and now you're saying it's about you I thought that's who they were meeting with I thought that's who he said it was he said they had a preliminary conversation so why can't we have a hold on until the impact study is done so the feedback would be to have an impact study because there's two different issues you have an affordable housing strategy and you have an economic development strategy I hear what you're saying it is and the economic development strategy addresses some affordable housing so there are components in here that help support affordable housing then the affordable housing will be all about affordable housing what is your what is your I've been working on this for nine months but I've never been running because of this place so I'm trying so let me ask I hear you so Christine I hear you about the tier one, tier two we need to do a better job explaining how these issues will not lead to the rezoning and how that's not eligible an existing condition preserving that because that is something that I will be including I'll hear your concerns about the affordability that the definitions we're using we have higher levels of affordability that are requiring in level three so all the regional centers there is still a 60% requirement in tier two for using affordability to qualify but we are allowing flexibility for some of those affordable units to go up to 80% that just recognizes where the market is where they're at so that these projects can actually work and the view from our office is that it's better to have some affordable units built into projects rather than being located out of the city who knows where they would go so we are trying to create continue that momentum for downtown development which is important we'd rather much rather and the policy reflects that housing units because all of our infrastructure is downtown we constantly here we get into other issues transportation all the dollars that go for that the more housing units which is part of the SA Toronto efforts that we can locate in the downtown area that's what the community wants and that's what this policy is trying to do but then not trying to bring some of those housing developments with an affordability criteria into them where it's possible to do that understand that the level one area doesn't have an affordability requirement right now but it's very difficult and Lori at B-Session shared a lot which is something that was asked of our office of our city you know show us the analysis that staff did so she's done that show the dark gaps we've had many people review those analysis and confirm probably too conservative so we know that projects in this core are more difficult so what we've done is included a bonus a carrot if you will to try and get some of those projects to add affordability that's what this program is doing it's continuing to create housing units where they make the most sense to create them and try and bring more of those units to an affordable level we've also added the tier 3 area level 3 which brings that 60% requirement which we've been asked to over and over again to look at and that's a requirement in all of those regional centers you will not get incentives unless you do that and we've heard from all your groups all the stakeholders residents that we've met with and say that the CCHIP has been on hold like of course it's been on hold for a year but the CCHIP concept is not a new concept it's been around since 2012 so what we've done is try and take an existing program that's been on hold for a long time understand what the requirements from the community are today and try and add those and build those into the policy but at the end of the day still have a policy that developers can actually use so it's a lot of goals that we're trying to meet all in one policy and we'll hear you I think me by myself when I met with you the last time it's not a community input there were several other meetings that did not have a lot of people I don't know I represent a community but those people need to be a part of it too like the residents not just me by myself to do what we used to do in the middle of the day we had to volunteer that time get away from work and I was here by myself we did reach out to each of those meetings and asked can we come to your nearest associations can we come and talk to you we have really specific limits on what you've come to we extended it after that because we said no we extended it because it was supposed to go to council and she's coming up we extended it before that to do more maybe we can talk about different topics level 3 is level 3 will be adopted by council but you will not be eligible for the incentives until your land level 1 is really the real downtown urban part those aren't really near urban some of the borders the block has been founded by the highways anything in white is not in level 1 I don't think it's that big of a concern I think most of us would agree that housing prices in that area are expensive already it's level 2 where there needs to be more discussion all of us level 2 over it's coming up to government bill I think everything red level 2 everything pink all the things eligible is pink basically all of the pink area there needs to be a pool because all of those just about all of those areas this is the side along the river that's most right the long star I'm trying to figure out what properties we're referring to I think we can take out the long star the big commercial properties pretty much everything that's east or west of I-10 there I-35 that's east of I-37 that's ignoity and all of Denver Heights area real street and the right old street that's just in that well that looks like the pro so let's start on the west side real quick if you're looking at west of frio street if you're inside frio street that's not particularly housing along eastern street heading south you do have some apartment complexes coming up here so would you say anything that's along frio street but it's not about the eastern neighborhood because I mean we so we understand what you're saying right you also have a separation of the railroad track until we can have those impact studies done to see what the displacement has been what we need to do to offset that so pass level one this is not meant to be an attack on your work this is a good policy this is we don't want to hurt areas either and we want to support the policy but we want it to be a policy that we can support and that's going to be good for the community as well and I'm not speaking for any community but my own but I will tell you that I think that it would be wise to wait for level two areas to have that impact study done so that we know what impacts each of us already had on communities not the economic impacts but the impacts on residents I don't know if we're doing an impact study we're not doing an impact study we're the only impact study that's on the TSA we're the only impact study that's on the TSA but we need to we need to find out displacement, community dynamics there's a lot of different elements that are being affected in these communities and I get as you said so level one I think most of us would agree that's probably okay to move forward but level two anything you do there is going to have a significant impact on the immediate neighborhoods adjacent to it so I'm definitely here this is a huge neighborhood that's been hugely impacted just what's the problem on the street they've been hugely affected by development and so we need to have some real figures to show what's happening there right and I mean like the pearl is obviously everyone is aware of the pearl but all of that development has had a huge ripple effect right adjacent to the pearl so you know it's easy to say oh well we have that pearl we'll just continue to develop that but it really does have an effect on the neighborhoods around it so I think that's why go forward with level one but for the level two areas can we just slow down and get more have a public meeting where community can come and really understand that because I think one of the challenges is the level you guys have spent months and months working on this and this is what you do every day all day long and then you present it to us and expect us to understand it and take it back to our communities and even when we spend time looking at it and ask lots of questions we don't understand it like you do so we can't take it back to our communities in the same way so it takes us a lot longer to catch up and figure out what are the questions we have what does this mean for us that's taken us this time and so we're asking if you could slow down so that we can catch up to you and so that we can understand and so that also you can understand what the community has to say and you know there's a lot of people in my community that have a much different background than me that have a better education than me that understand the neighborhood better than me and but they can't be here so I'm here you know so we have to work together and I think we need time and opportunity for those people to get their questions answered and to get their input one good example excuse me one good example to help them understand what we're talking about for the housing task force when they held their meetings the input meetings the one that in the current word had 200 people and there was a dialogue that went on and we were at those meetings and we the neighborhoods feel better when we have that opportunity to hear you to talk with you and you to talk to us and to more people you know you look at this and think okay if I were you I'd be like what is wrong with these people what is wrong with revitalization I do want you to know I understand the channel and I think wow that's revitalization that's going to help that community the problem is all of us have been on the ground and that's never how it works out for us things should work good like this you find your neighbors can't stay in their homes you find developers coming in and for them it's not community nor should it be they have a job it's a bottom line and whatever they do for that bottom line that's what they do well for us it's for community it's for condos right next to your single family bungalow in Beacon Hill or across the street in Tobin Hill I mean all of us could have those examples and so we're products thinking is often products of worst case narratives because that's often what these produce for us and so I mean the idea of needing to assess like for the most vulnerable neighbors neighbors who hold on to redlining who have created cheap land prices I know if they move those tax bases would go up I know economically maybe displacement's not a bad thing from a perspective but for us and for our neighborhoods they're disastrous and we need to study the effects of that before we go on and we're also living out of places for people to go Amelia said they live in the poorest that's put in the city well we know that our city has the poorest that's put in the nation so that's the poorest that's put in the country where will they go if they're displaced where will they go there's literally nowhere less expected for them to go nowhere wait on the suburbs not even in the suburbs there is listening to this and looking at that $360,000 unit that's the cap there's a mutual that Saha is going to test you know it's coming down from the hood and it's much much more localized AMI have you seen this but no in some of these areas it's capped at point in tune with this new tool that's being developed Richard Lucas is like our point person locally then it's then it may be you know you may be then developing a really interesting policy and tool it's much more sensitive to what's already on the ground and I don't know I want to plant the idea of looking at that as part of this I do agree with the citizen input this is just another recommendation as far as thinking about the tools that you've got available to you and making them a lot more a lot more almost micro responsive to what's there you know thinking about the displacement issues thinking about the externality issues if I'm going to build something that's $360,000 next to these houses that are now $60,000 what's going to happen to the little houses we all know that but if I build something that's $140,000 next to the $60,000 house that's a very different scenario so we are still we are still proposed to go on Thursday but I think it's changing can you tell me the studies that you can have we will send it to Barbara and she can send it to this group but they're available next week the 12th the 13th 12th that's Wednesday I do appreciate the changes that you've made since the first time we met here I have had some of these are different and I can tell you what you're hearing and the community appreciates that I appreciate that so I feel confident that if we can just take our time we can really reach a policy that's going to be good I mean not that this isn't good but I think we can if we can really tell it off I'm not trying to say I want to go to my place and I want to call my council person and say you need to pass this as it stands I'm about 75% there but I have some reservations so I can't say that right now but I'm also hearing no tier one you're fine level one but I don't I mean looking at you're listening to level one and my neighborhood so my neighborhood is the most effective and I'm looking at the neighborhoods around there those are already pretty well developed so I don't think that the 360 cab is a problem level one and the general incentives that you're going to have in level one given the kind of development that's already there will not have that much direct impact it's level two where you already have a lot of the stuff that borders level one and level two is commercial already or multi-unit areas it's when you get just past that so that's why I have a problem level two level one I think is doable I'm not going to champion I feel the same way yes right but I believe they're inside they're just outside level one they're just outside level one I still think you should meet with them because they're they're directly connected to it so they'll have that that impact and Soapworks wasn't they didn't receive any incentives that's a question about the city if you leave it like right now as it is anything goes provided you're within the 84 square mile area so do you all support moving forward with the amendment to the city if you leave it which are banning type two limiting it to the use versus the 84 square mile the 84 square mile my other question on that was Renee was still working on the business development like and I'm sure that'll be fine but I would say I want to see that because probably it's fine but without that business development pieces you can't say yes to everything we haven't seen it what our policy would say is that piece would be as whenever there's this effect then it would be effective so we're not passing but if this is past and then once he's done then what happens it has to go back to council it has to go to council so this would just impose the limits on it yeah so we went forward with the fee waiver program and then we're gonna all look at some of the discussion we had about tier level one versus level two as far as that I think that I think that it looks good my only concern is using MSA, AMI and maybe if we could look at the tool that Christine mentioned or something like that or even adjusted what we instead of doing deal we looked very hard at that we had very deep discussions with our nonprofit community too I've been working with for about 16 years they can't finance a deal without those HUD rents everything is based on those HUD rents what we're asking is we know that you have to use MSA but figures that's fine we use the 60% instead of the 80 because 60 aligns with 80 and even 100% for the city right we still need some work force we still need that 80 and the 80% is almost 110 80 HUD that is not our first percent 80% is helping a teacher a fireman we still need that type of work we still need that housing problem in downtown so that's 80% of we're talking about a family of four making $66,000 a year combined two households that's 100% two a couple making $33,000 a year each we're not saying asking for people to make more money we're saying make the requirement be more restrictive to providing more affordable housing lowering it to the max price for sale instead of being 120% amire below 100% amire below instead of the multi family being half at 80% and half at 60% maybe half at 60% and half at 30% we're asking for it to how the math works if we're providing an incentive that might be worth $200,000 in incentive for a reduction in rents from 80% down to a 50 or 30 it doesn't justify the incentive they would not use the tool to begin with so all we're doing is removing the ability for them to use the tool in the first place it's just not cost effective what we're trying to do is we're trying to get them to be able to utilize this tool and if we're saying that these affordable housing developers that they're bound to try to go after the tax credits the home dollars where all the big money are for the affordable housing we want to layer this ICRIP program to give them the extra $200,000 $500,000 for that this is a piggyback this is not to drive I totally get that why? if everybody would just get out of the way of the affordable housing providers they can do it they're doing it and they're doing it statulessly it's the for-profits that you're trying to attract to do these kinds of projects I want more Alamo groups to do these projects but that's the thing is that they know how and they can do it and we're dying to get another building I know that and they know how to use these tools but when I listen to you it's more and you say well they'll just opt out well the affordables can't opt out the for-profits are the ones that are going to opt out but is there any more of the housing down to you? we do yes and you can't it does not console but I get that I get that so the question is how do you kind of if we just if we can enable our affordables to do even more to build their capacity even more you generate some new ones whatever get NHS off the ground right sorry double but a long time to care it first it's tragedy right but it's the when I listen to you it's the for-profits you're thinking about not the non-profits exactly what not but you said that they won't take they won't do this and they'll do their own thing if they're trying to get a tax credit project 4% or 9% are trying to do some sort of deal and they have to get the 60% or the 80% that's the target for their project and to get this $250,000 they now have to bring half their units down to 30% AMI it's not going to work financially they can't it's just not from a form of standpoint they're the ones proposing this they're the ones saying whatever you do don't go down to the lower thresholds they're the ones who are tough in this sense they want to do the at or below 30% they'll still meet those guidelines but they don't want us to change and even Lord us in the housing household so they never intended for us to not be in alignment but they're doing what you want you lower it but we can't lower it there's still a demand for market rate in their town and you're right there's affordable housing that will do it and so this policy will help us meet both keep the market rate going but help us bring along the animal groups and others it's an expanded definition of market rate but when you talk about market rate you're talking about 100% AMI or 80% AMI 80% and higher of AMI which is honestly not upper middle income but it's higher middle income for the city of San Antonio so if this goes back to the economic development and I'm going to speak to level one right now I mean you have USA bringing 2500 employees we were bringing employees down there 63% of our housing stock in level one is affordable we don't have we have more affordable than market rate online now I'm not speaking of quality you know it may not be quality but we need more market rate stock because USA is coming downtown because their employees want to be downtown and so as a result of us creating a vibrant downtown USA is bringing businesses from Phoenix and other offices in Dallas through the city of San Antonio and they're saying we're moving 2500 people downtown because we did a survey and our employees want to be down there and if there isn't that causes more stress on our neighborhoods when they need that housing and it's not provided downtown which is all hotels and hotels and that's a problem so we need to create more product downtown because if you don't but we can even afford it so the employees though what's the market rate downtown and Pearl has one bedroom for $1200 a month so it's anywhere from the average is about $1.75 so in normal who's the employee that makes what kind of salary does that employee need to make to afford a place like that and in fact the majority of the people that these businesses are bringing are they bringing their higher level or are they bringing their lower level right now a lot of the downtown workforce are tourism industry who are very much on the low end and they can't afford to live downtown so the USA is around the higher level but also if I'm cleaning the Valencia and I have a family of three and I'm coming in all the time I would like to live in the USA I would like to live downtown too but I won't be able to but I'm cleaning San Antonio's hotels and I do more because I'm going overtime or whatever but I can't go out at 10pm so you said that most of the residents that we have in town are lower income not most of the residents, most of the units so we took all the housing units most of the multi-family housing units but you're looking at older stuff there are many architectural engineering firms downtown in Southtown, I'm the only one that lives in Southtown, everybody lives far away because it's expensive to live here and also the lowest pay person so having that with the people that are on this discount sessions, yes we work at the central I'm talking about people that live in this multi-family but each of them I think going back to ICRIP was there an issue with ICRIP I know we talked about the affordability and talking about the rates talking about trying to get them down to or mandating that this program reduce it you know, if tax credit programs were mandated down and they're the drivers of in twenty million dollars of equity in a project then we could piggyback off of that and say we're going to match whatever the tax rate is but we shouldn't be the ones driving the discussion of affordability based on 200,000 dollars in a fee waiver that might be going into a project when it can help that tax credit project it can help the museum reach or have to be flexible and how about that building downtown at all no, I'm talking about city fee waiver which is city wide what's the program talking about from what you presented I think the ICRIP looks good the fee waiver program looks good I wish that there could be a way to bring basically what Christine was asking when we were saying before I understand that you need to use the MSA number the head numbers for the nonprofit groups but I wish there was a way that we could make our requirements match up with what our city needs and the affordable housing strategy we'll speak to that more this was really kind of a threshold you must meet to be able to get to the fee waiver this was thinking about the for-profit the fee waiver because the nonprofit, they're going to go below this but this is really trying to get that for-profit developer to do this for the fee waiver program because the Alamo groups in the world all those they're going to go deeper cuts but this was just to get someone okay to develop a mixed income okay the output is looking at I wish it was more affordable it's not 25% of the U.S. have to be at 60% of the low I'm just curious if the displacement policy about it's in the works and the affordable housing approach that is in the works if they find themselves contradicting this what will happen we've been working closely with Veronica Soto they have not expressed any concerns about that and this is a tool they want to fold into that I guess it still doesn't make sense to me that that wouldn't all happen together instead of piecemeal it's a piece that's lacking here that's the part you guys are doing a lot of work there's a lot of information but there's a huge gap and that's the affordable housing I just worried that they're going to end up not really matching and I am concerned about the idea that if it's historic or it's eligible to be historic and I don't even know how it address us that there's no design standards I'm worried that this will be an open door for flippers to come in get the fee waivers into and some of them do fine jobs a lot of them don't I think if you can address that then I I think the fee waiver program I'm sorry I mean but so you said you had not yet met with those residents that are in the level 1 area we met with several residents but we didn't reach out to them in the residents association they have not expressed interest in meeting any briefings but we have met with individual property owners so yes we have we've also attended the downtown regional center planning things and talked about this as well I guess I just have a concern now like now that you mentioned that most of the monthly family units are on the lower income I'm afraid for them if we're going to get them displayed I don't want to see another sub works well this it was not done with an incentive I know I don't want the next one to be and it would not allow so this something like soap works the maverick anything that already has tenants in there it's not eligible for alzabright incentives that has to go to city council so if someone is currently living there it's not eligible for brand new but once there's I mean you know and I know there's got to find some ground in here in between but the truth is once you have all this development downtown and all this wealthy great living space those people are going to be placed no one is going to have these small rents if you're running a for profit they're going to want to change them into something that will get the same kind of rents that's what they do for a living and then but that's this is why this is why tax credit programs affordable housing programs like with the home program are so critical because they have restrictions long-term affordability restrictions with those investments that are in place for 15, 20, 30, 35, 40 years depending on the level of investment that comes in but if we also have alternative affordable housing in the downtown area that will go a lot I mean you know maybe that's lost in the downtown but at least in the area but we still have affordable housing in downtown and I was ready to go say level one is fine now I'm afraid because I would like to see how the current affordable housing in the downtown you say there's a lot how are we going to preserve that and then they said well the seat ship it doesn't allow you to buy affordable housing but now what we're trying to do is we're also recommending separate from the seat ship to be disposing of city-owned property to build affordable housing in the downtown area so we have those are other tools that we're trying to use that are outside of this as a bright policy affordable housing affordable housing projects say like Savio's Laws which has 63 of the units are at or below 60% than the AMI if they were able to sell that property it's a tax credit project it cannot be changed during the length of the term of those agreements what I'm talking about is the same thing we were talking about in level two so the neighborhood outside Lone Star is not part of the level two but they're going to be impacted by whatever you do in level two so now what we're seeing in level one like soapworks they're not eligible for any incentive but I've no doubt that they were directly impacted by the other incentives that are happening downtown because everything around them is going up so then that one does too so what kind of protection do we have on the current affordable housing that it will stay affordable housing and not suddenly go scarred unless those people are rentals and there's no protection that we can necessarily offer unless they're already built in so maybe we need to look at that and we need to see what the affordable housing plan is that's going to protect those residents before we start who here lives in the west side? not anymore, used to fiancee used to let's palm us in but you're not there now exactly what I'm saying so before we're here with level one is that the big picture because it is a big picture is that the big picture because it is going to impact I see that now I was willing to go with level one before but now I see it's no it's the same I know Westwood definitely has this issue I see now that level one is going to have the same issue that we were concerned about for our new two areas and before we went forward we'd like to see what affordable housing plan is going to do for types of people that are currently now going to the nether region the senate is going to hugely there is coalition I think the way that it is now we can support it but maybe just slowing down the siege process until the affordable housing can catch up to it so we can see what those are because they're going to work together and make sure that communities are being supported through the office that's nice thank you