 So, everybody, once again, it's Brandon Shawn and today I got a very special guest for you guys once again. And today I'm talking about Kato, aka Kato on a track. He has so many producer credits from Hopson to B.O.B. to Joyner Lucas to, I don't know, Trina James. The list goes on with this guy. He's so experienced. And he really gives you insight into being a part of one of the most successful hip-hop indie labels of its period, of its era, but also some of the pitfalls of how that label fell apart from his personal view and not only that, but going from indie label success to his living room and rising back up again as a music entrepreneur. Now, unfortunately, there are a few audio issues and visual issues in this interview. My bad. But I promise you, the gems that Kato drops in this interview, you have to watch it all the way through. And he's somebody you definitely want to follow in the future. He's a cool, personable guy. And he helps artists all the time. Let's hop into it. What I really want to get into first with you, Kato, is just the fact that where you are right now, right in the last few years, you've made a pretty high level of production. You put out a lot of music and the names are pretty well known at this point. But before you got to that point, what year was it when you decided to finally go full on? Just music? Mm-hmm. What year was that? I remember it was January 1st, 2012, that I quit my job to go all in with music. What were you doing? I was doing a lot of things, man. I worked for Arrow Exterminators. That job was a whole other level of, it humbled me. That was a humbling job to have. Interesting. Yeah. I taught top martial arts, go figure I'm Asian, so I did that for a couple years. I did a lot of different stuff. But all the while, you knew that you wanted music to be your main thing? Oh, yeah. 100%. Okay. And I would always, as soon as work was done, come straight home, get in the studio or get in with an artist. I remember a lot of nights where I'd just be up through the morning time and then get no sleep and just go straight to my nine to five again. So it was like that for a good, good number of years. Gotcha. Gotcha. So with that being said, in 2012, when you decided to go ahead and fully commit head-on, was that because the situation was at hand, did you get signed at that point? Or were you just saying, I'm going to figure it out, I'm just tired of nine to five? It was a little bit of both, but I felt like it was the right opportunity because Jaren Benton, who was an artist that I was working with closely at the time, he had just gotten signed to funk volume. So that whole opportunity opened up for me. And eventually a year after he got signed, I was signed as an in-house producer. So that kind of opened up a lot of doors for me and opened up the opportunity for me to just focus solely on my music. And I had tried to quit my job a couple of times before that to go all in with the music and it just wasn't the right time and I couldn't stick it out. So this time was different and luckily it was no looking back from there. Gotcha. I'm always curious as a producer because it's so much different than being an artist in terms of how a lot of producers put themselves out there. Did you ever want to be more so of a super producer or did you just want to be a producer work full time or were you even cool possibly with just selling beats? Well, how do you see your imagine yourself at the beginning of the game before you really got into it and knew what it really was? In the beginning, man, I think everyone who gets into music, whether you're a producer or an artist, we all have those dreams of becoming the best or the top of the game and over the years, you kind of learn, you know, you kind of learn how the game works and learn where you fit in, you know, and I think I learned that my calling was more of, it was a different lane man, it was a different path that I felt like I was supposed to pursue and so after probably about five, six years, I really, really just focused on creating my own life, you know, and that was through just working with the types of artists that I worked with and being more of an entrepreneur and starting businesses and so I just went really hard with that and focused more on that side of everything. So I don't really hear people go enough into this topic, so I want to stick here for a second. When you talk about realizing what the game really is, how it actually works and maybe you don't fit in where you thought you might fit in or you see this is what it actually takes to become this and I don't want to do what that takes and one thing of another. What did that, can you go into more detail, what that actually looked like for you, those experiences? Yeah, I think, I mean regardless, you got to be willing to make sacrifices, I mean to get to where you want to be, to be in this position at all, I had to make a lot of sacrifices. Just, you know, I spent my entire 20s just staying at home and being in the studio and not going out on weekends and just really, really focusing on my craft and that's how I spent my entire 20s and so I made that sacrifice to be where I am today. But you know, I think it's just, you have to kind of learn where, you know, what you're comfortable with and what you're willing to give up and what you're not willing to give up and for me, my happiness supersedes everything, so I'm not willing to sacrifice my happiness or sell my soul, there's a lot of politics in the music industry. So if you're not someone that likes to play that game, then figure out a different lane that works for you and stick to things that, where you can maintain a certain level of sanity and still get to do exactly what you love to do. And so I think that's been the biggest learning process for me is learning how to do that. Now, obviously this is going to be on the internet, people are going to see this and you said sell your soul, that's something that people always take in one direction or another. When you said it, I want to know what you meant by it. To me selling my soul, you know, when I say that, it means it goes back to the happiness that just means like putting something else above your own happiness just for the look or just to, you know, because you prioritize maybe fame or money over your own personal happiness. You know, that's what selling your soul is to me. Got it. And that's something I wasn't willing to do, you know, because it doesn't mean that much to me. But the longer I'm in this game, the more I realize I'd rather have money over fame. You know, tell me so I'm not willing to do certain things just for the look or just for the fame or, you know, it's just it's not worth it to me. Got you. Got you. Don't man. I really appreciate that perspective. Because I think in music in particular, there's no path. There's no, there's a lot of people who have done things, but even the blueprints to get laid, it gets warped so quickly, it's hard to follow somebody else's exact blueprint. So when you come in and you find out all these little pieces, all right, and you're not necessarily usually going to do one thing and get a lot of income, you're usually going to do like four or five different things, but that part just shifts how you're like quickly shifts like, okay, what am I really going to do with this? Like, what were some of the things that you started to do when we talked about getting into more things than maybe just producing? Yeah. Well, you know, I think a lot of producers starting out want to play the placements game and that's I respect it and I don't knock anyone that wants to try to pursue that, but just know that it's going to be highly, highly competitive and depending on how far you want to take it, there's just going to be a lot of politics involved with that, too. You know, just, you can call it politics or you can call it relationship building. They kind of go hand in hand in a weird way, but within that process of relationship building, you're going to have to play to a certain extent by other people's rules. And so, you know, I think we're in a great space and a great time to be a producer because there are so many other opportunities outside of just getting placements that you can pursue. And again, it goes back to you just knowing what path you want to go. And there might be a lot more work in terms of Lang Foundation to get there, but it's definitely worth it. Whether you want to sell beats online or move in more of like a sound designer and put out sound kits or sound packs or, you know, you might discover somewhere along the line that you want to be more on the engineering side and kind of be behind the scenes a little bit more. So, it's just, there's so many things you can do there. Yeah. So, you're out here a lot more than you were before when you were in and out producing. At some point, you decided to make that shift that you wanted to be a little bit more of a personal brand. Why was that and what were the challenges like when you started to make that shift? I learned from being on funk volume how important it was to engage with an online audience because that's something that FV was really, really good at doing. Pretty much all of our fans could be reached through Facebook or Twitter or I don't think Instagram was as big of a thing back then, but that Instagram was more recent. But, you know, we primarily we use Facebook to keep in touch with all of our fans back then. And when I saw the sort of reaction that we got back and the engagement that we got back from the fans, I was like, holy shit, like it's crazy that we can reach all these people just through social media. And so after funk volume, I kind of took those lessons and applied it to my own career and I started just getting more active on social media and that was probably the biggest learning curve and something that I'm still trying to understand better and better every day today is just learning how to engage and interact and create good content that people are interested in and learning how to build a brand online. That is something that I'm still learning to this day, but it was a big takeaway from just being on funk volume. Got you. So with that, the inspiration for B-Club? Yeah, sort of. I pretty much started B-Club, you know, not long after funk volume. I was just trying to figure out what I wanted to do from there, and I had gotten all this experience from being on the label and I worked with all these artists and I just started to build that online audience. So I was like, how can I capitalize off of that, off of what I have, you know? Not necessarily think about what more can I get, but just how can I capitalize off of what I have at this very moment? You already got it. And so I thought to myself, like, you know, there's no one else really doing anything like this. There's no one else that's trying to educate the rest of the producer community, but then start a business at the same time. What year was it? So this was, I want to say 2015, around 2015, gotcha. So I literally just, you know, and I was broke at the time. I was flat broke. I didn't have any money. I actually had gotten kicked out of my apartment and I had to move into my girlfriend's living room. So I had boxes. You put your living room in? Well, she lived in an apartment at the same time and she had a roommate too. Oh, man. Okay. So there wasn't much space and so I just had to stack all my shit in her living room and, man, I was in a tough spot, you know, I was in a real tough spot. And so I thought to myself, you know, I had this idea of a program to educate the producer community, to just talk about my experiences and try to help others along the same path. And so I started B-Club and charged people, you know, $25 a month. And I just remember just posting on social media, like who's interested in this idea, DM your phone numbers. And I got flooded with phone numbers from producers and from there on out, I just spent all day just calling producers on the phone and being like, yo, I have this idea. Are you interested? Yeah. Go to this page to sign up. And I got like a hundred sign ups within that first month. Well, I was like, okay, I'm on to something. I just need to develop that idea and turn into what it is today. What was so much there, man? Let's stick with B-Club for a second, though. What are the primary offers? Because there's, B-Club is still here today, guys. Now it's paired with Music Entrepreneurship Club, and we'll get into that more later. But what's the primary offering of B-Club? What's the core thing that you feel like the producers would give them on value out of? So, so now obviously, you know, I merged with, it's crazy how things come full circle. So, you know, I was in a team who was the CEO of Fung Volume at the time. He and him and Hobson signed me to Fung Volume, and you know, back then I was just, I was just another person on the label, you know, I wasn't anything special. I wasn't signed as an artist, so, you know, I kind of just played my role and kind of fell to the background a little bit while I was on that. Now, fast forward to today, Dame is my business partner in Music Entrepreneurship Club. So, you know, me and DJ Payne won. We kind of run the producer side of it, and Dame runs the artist side of it, and we both, we all just kind of help each other just build this brand, this idea. But the main takeaway from Beat Club is exactly what we had talked about, just understanding that there are a lot of different paths that you can take in the music industry as an artist or producer, and it's just learning to educate yourself as an entrepreneur and as an artist on the business of music. So, I think that's the biggest takeaway is that I, I hit a ceiling because I was so focused on my music and nothing else. If you are only focused on your music, then you are going to hit that same ceiling, you know, you have to educate yourself on the business side. If you want to be able to create a career in the music industry. Got it. You know, in every other field in the world, like people go to school to get educated on what career path they want to take. Yeah. The music industry is no different. It's just that, uh, it's, there's no rulebook or there's no manual on how to become successful. Like you don't just get out of school and get hired. You know, some people might, but if you really want to become an artist or a producer, there are things that school, in my opinion, can't teach you, so, um, that's what resources like music entrepreneur club is about. And we bring on special guests like who are experts in their field to talk about, um, how you can apply certain ideas and certain strategies to your career. And there's just a lot of educational, um, information for anyone that wants to pursue a career in music. Go, go. And it's interesting to hear you talk about that period when you had to move in with your girl, right? Yeah. Because you were signed to funk volume, right? Yeah. That's a period of time. Typically any situation like that, so many artists or producers, particularly will be like, yo, I'm successful, right? So many people's goals is just to get that. Yeah. But once it was over, you were, I mean, you were broke. Yeah. Right. So that shows, that goes to show that it won't be the end all be all to solve all your problems. But from your perspective, why were you broke after funk volume was over whether because you weren't doing what you should have done. You should have been more focused on handling some other parts of your business or, yeah, I don't know what, why do you think that came about for you and your situation? Yeah. I think it was, I think it was a lack of understanding on my part. Funk volume was the first situation where I really got a taste of what the music industry could be. Okay. And especially on an independent level. When you're independent, you don't necessarily have the resources that, you know, someone who was signed to a big major label might have. Got it. And I think funk volume was moving in that direction where we have just signed a distribution deal with universal things. We're starting to look really nice in terms of us getting to a whole another level and that's when everything ended. So, yeah, I think I, it all just happened really quick for me and I didn't have the time to apply, you know, step back and apply everything that I learned yet. I was just riding the wave man and everything was going so well. And I wasn't really challenging myself to make myself a better music entrepreneur, you know. And so that's why when that situation ended, I found myself in that position where I was broke. I didn't have money. I had placements. I had good books. I had a fan audience that I'm sure saw me and thought that I was doing really well. Yeah. Which opportunity wise it was amazing, but from a realistic standpoint, like, and that's why you just can't believe everything you see on social media because it's such a facade. Like people showcase the best aspects of their life, but they don't give you the full picture for sure. Promise you that, you know. So when people are going on social media and, and being these like certain lifestyles, like, man, most of that is probably fake, you know. So don't believe everything you see on social media. That's lesson number one. I feel you on that one. That's we hear it all the time, but still sometimes we allow ourselves proof of that, you know, I'm proof of that. I'm sure people looked at me and they were like, Holy shit, this, this producer, like this kid is killing it. He's working with all these people and he's signed to this hugely successful label. And, you know, I was, I was actually struggling from a financial standpoint and I couldn't support myself about you. So, you know, it looks can be deceiving when you say you were riding the wave, what did that look like from a day to day basis? Like, were you just going to the studio, go home, go to the studio, go home? Or what did that, what was your mentality when you say riding the wave? I think I just didn't anticipate any of that to end at any point. So when it finally did, it was as much of a shock to me as it was for all of the fans that were watching this play out on social media, because as well, anyone that remembers it, it played out very publicly on social media. Very grand opening, grand closing. Yeah, exactly. And so when that happened, you know, I knew there was some stuff going on behind the scenes, but for the most part, I didn't expect it to come to an end like that, you know? Yeah. So I don't think any of us on the label did. I still have conversations to this day with Jaren talking about like how crazy I think how much we, how much we didn't necessarily fully appreciate that opportunity. Yeah, it was huge. It was, you know, we were doing nationwide international tours, and everyone as a unit working together was more impactful, you know? So I think that's primarily what I mean by just just riding that wave and never expecting all of that to come to an end. That's right, no. So you didn't even have the urgency to say, all right, let me figure out some of these things. Not to make sure I'm straight, because none of that. Yeah. It was a rude awakening. Yeah. You know, once it happened, it was like a slap in the face of me to wake up and really start focusing on myself, you know? That's interesting because you guys did have an interesting opportunity because I haven't, I still haven't seen anybody in this era have those type of artists and reaching that level of success. It was rare, man. I mean, y'all weren't even at y'all's potential yet. Yeah. You were on a trajectory with some high-level miracle artists and not even a very specific type of miracle artists that you really don't see get that much shine still, right? I mean, you don't see labels come like that every day, you know, where every artist can stand alone by themselves and be that talented, but also come together as a unit and have this thing, you know? It's really rare to see that. So it was amazing, that whole opportunity. So coming up out of that, where you are today, what does your day-to-day look like? What are you focused on? So I wake up and usually the first half of my day consists of content creation because I'm big on content. I focus a lot on producing my own original content, whether that be, you know, just recording myself making beats or chopping up clips from our music entrepreneur club sessions and posting those on social media or, you know, I just focus on creating something new every day. And that almost in itself is like an art form to me. Like creating content is, I like to do that when I'm not making music. And so, you know, my first half of the day is focused on that and just a lot of the administrative stuff, like answering emails, following up with, you know, certain business inquiries and that kind of stuff, and then, you know, I'm blessed to be in a position, man, where I can now make music when I want to and not be forced to create, though, you know, so that's a blessing in itself is, you know, I'm truly transitioning to the position of a music entrepreneur instead of just a producer, though, you know, that's a good position to be in, man, because you have more flexibility and you can kind of dictate what path that you're on, you know, and just kind of move accordingly. So you say or is your work schedule like seven days a week, whatever happens, whatever happens, are you, do you create off days regularly? You know, as a as an entrepreneur, you kind of have that flexibility in their schedule to if I'm having an off day where I really, really don't feel like doing shit, and I have the luxury of being able to do that. But then on the same token, you know, you don't have any off days, as if you have your own thing, if you're an entrepreneur, like I'm working on the weekends, there will be times where I like to reserve weekends for just time with me and my girl doing normal people shit. There are times where I'd have to sacrifice some of that time to just work on business stuff. You know, so at the same time, you have the flexibility, but you're working 24 seven, really. Roger. Yeah, I know. It's hard to turn your mind off even when you're not. It's almost become habit at this point where I feel like if I'm not doing anything, then I should be doing something, you know, like there's always something to do. So that's what's hard for me to just sit around at a studio session sometimes for like 12 hours. I'm like, I could be doing shit. Doing something. Yeah, there's always something to do. Yeah. So how about when I think about all of the things you said, if you could codify, what does it take to go from producer to music entrepreneur? What does that look like, that transition? I think, number one, it's just educating yourself on the business that you're in. Um, knowing how publishing works, knowing how to start a small business, got you knowing how to market and develop a brand, knowing how to use social media. It's just being resourceful, man. And I'm not saying that you have to learn how to do all these things necessarily by yourself. But you have to be if you can't do those things by yourself, then you have to find the people to help you do them at some point, you know. So then comes in the networking part. You got to go out and network and you got to meet people. It's a lot, man, like artists, music artists and producers, if you truly want to be successful, you kind of have to wear like 10 different hats to play that role. And understanding how to do each one, I think is the key and knowing when to let other people step in and help you. You got to at some point is also going to be important. But, you know, in the beginning, no one's just going to step in and give you everything that you want. So you're going to have to go out there and earn it for yourself or learn how to do it. And I think that's the biggest key for a lot of artists and producers that are looking to become entrepreneurs, too. So you just have to you have to be resourceful and learn how to do that on your own. Oh, so last question. If you were starting over again today, ground zero, which, you know, so I would tell everyone just to focus on the long term game, don't get distracted by the short term bag up front. And as long as you do that, man, I think you'll be on the right path. Don't go. So, hey, guys, if you don't know about the B Club, I'm going to put the link in the description below. As a matter of fact, well, it's not just the B Club, of course, Music Entrepreneurship Club. So if you haven't checked that out for yourself, it will definitely be in the link in the description below. And I actually have a code brand man, Sean. You guys can check that. Use that code for a discount. I believe it's 10 percent discount off of your membership. It's definitely a valuable membership. Once again, I don't mention things to you guys that are like scam and I don't believe you will get value from it. So check them out for real. Is there anything else that you want them to know for sure? That's it, man. Just check out Music Entrepreneurship Club. I'm always working on new music. So I got I got some stuff lined up for 2019. But this is once again, Kato the producer. And once again, this is Kato the producer. I'll put his act symbols and the IG all that social media up on the screen. If you like this video, go ahead and hit that like button. If you like it, you might as well share it. And if you're not subscribed, you know what to do. Hit that subscribe button.