 Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening. You can go to love in France, but you cannot become a Frenchman. You can go to love in Germany, or Turkey, or Japan, but you cannot become a German, or Turk, or Japanese. But anyone from any corner of the earth can come to love in America and become an American. Welcome back to A Nation of Immigrants, a new talk show program featuring the lives of immigrants, knowledge, diversity, and inclusion. Created by St. Tank Hawai'i and Kingsfield Law Office, we invite renowned immigrants to discuss their life stories, immigration adventures, and other contributions to cultural diversity. Today's guest is our good friend Dr. Ross Hai. Dr. Hai is the Vice President of Thailand Learning and Organizational Effectiveness at Trevend. She is also an adjunct professor at Carlson School of Management at the University of Minnesota. Dr. Hai was previously was Vice President and Chief Learning Officer at Ecolab, responsible for enterprise learning and global institutional training. Dr. Hai received her PhD in Curriculum and Instructional Technologies from the University of Minnesota, Master of Science in Information Media from St. Claude University, and Bachelor of Arts in English Literature and Language from Nankai University in China. She's also past a chair of the Board of Directors at Beth Pratt, an executive mentor and a coach and a Mentium Corporation. Dr. Hai is widely recognized as a leader in the Asian American community. Welcome to the show, Ross. So happy to have you here. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, well, you know, I always admire your leadership in the Asian American community. And I had the privilege to bring my students to your company and to hear from you, talk about learning and leadership. And thank you again for that great opportunity. But I never have a chance to sit down with you to talk about you. So today, the purpose is you. We want to learn more about you. Please tell us about your childhood. And I know you're from Tianjin. And your education, you received your venture degree from Nankai University, very prestigious university in China. And then you'll receive a master and a PhD from American universities. Please tell us about your childhood, your education. And most importantly, how did you settle in Minnesota? Well, thank you for having me. It is such a pleasure to have this conversation with you, Chang. And I think we all, as immigrants, have unique stories to tell. And it's fabulous that we have this channel to learn about each person's unique journey. There's nothing more difficult than talking about oneself. So I treasure this opportunity to really reflect on my process of growing and living in America. I grew up in Tianjin, as you mentioned, which is a northern city, very large industrial city in China. And I grew up in, you know, back then, I would say, well, probably materially, not very well off, but it was a blissfully happy childhood, because the community where I grew up in is very close knit, was very crowded period, but it was a very close knit, you know, we, I went to school with my neighbors and, you know, I had all my free time with friends or neighbors. So it was a very wonderful, relaxing kind of a time, as much as we reflect on, gosh, you know, materially, it was not very rich, but life was quite fun as a child. I did have a very unique cultural, educational experience. I grew up with the schools opening really late. So I wasn't actually able to go to school, formal school, until almost when I was nine years old. So my parents, who were both very dedicated to education, and they each had their own education disrupted because of the Second World War. So my, my father managed to teach me how to use the dictionary. That's how literally how I learned. And he was able to borrow a book from his factory's library one at a time. And once I learned how to use the dictionary, I felt unstoppable because he gave me any book I was able to, to figure out how to read it. And so by the time I actually went to school, I had been exposed to, I had learned, I taught myself how to read. And I had been forced by my parents to take classes on the radio. If you remember way back when there was a whole channel just dedicated to education. So I could learn Japanese one hour and English and another hour. Those were not fun. Those were my parents' ambition that this wonderful time should not be wasted. So they wanted me, I mean, those textbooks cost them probably a month's wages. But they provided me those textbooks and wanted me to learn. So I became a master at changing the clock in my house because there was only one clock. And by changing that clock, I would miss my lessons all the time. But, you know, Miss Chief aside, I did get exposure to English and Japanese very early, which helped me master other languages when I was, you know, a grownup. But I didn't get a chance to go to school until I was almost nine years old. School was very short back then, was only half day. So I used the other half day to try to keep up my English studies. And because the, you know, the education system was quite fluid at the time, I was able to sit for the national college exam when I was 16. Because, you know, you could, if you convinced the school that you worked hard. And so I was able to join the senior class, take, you know, took all the classes with the senior graduating class, and took private lessons. Those are all free volunteer lessons by my father's friends in the factory. Learned, you know, math and advanced Chinese skills. So I was able to sit in the national college exam. And I was really fortunate to be able to go to Nankai University and majored in English and minored in French. So when I got to Nankai University, I literally felt like I've gone to book heaven. Because if you remember during the Cultural Revolution, the libraries have been closed to the public. And the bookstores were quite there. So having access to the university with six book cards that you could borrow six books at a time, I thought that was the most amazing thing you can imagine. And yeah, so I just became an unstoppable reader. And I always carried a dictionary with me, as you can imagine, you know, the vocabulary of reading so much was quite a challenge. So I became a person within a dictionary attached to me. So that was a really blissful, wonderful four years of college in Nankai University on the campus. I was still able to go back recently to look at that campus, which has grown so much in the past couple of decades here. But from there, we had several visiting professors from all around the world. Actually, we had professors from Europe, from Australia, from US. And then there were a couple of professors from Minnesota, actually, and they somehow saw the potential in me and introduced me to the St. Claude State University here in Minnesota and really made that connection for me to actually be able to come to graduate school. And the only way that could happen, just given the financial circumstances, was the professors in the department where I was attending school. It was the Department of Learning Resources and Information Media. The professors literally took turns hosting me free of charge. You know, I lived with their families and ate with their families, and they supported me. They taught me how to drive. They, you know, taught me everything about how to say like classes and how to think about a career path. And I truly thank my St. Claude State families for launching me in terms of career as a professional. From there, I did my doctorate here at the University of Minnesota. And from this point on, my career has become just an unbelievable journey of so many mentors, professors, managers, colleagues, neighbors who encouraged me and coached me, connected me to opportunities, taking a chance on me. So since then, I married my husband who's from Malaysia, but has also been studying in the U.S. Both of us met at the university and started a family here in Minnesota. Both of our kids were born and raised in Minnesota in the public school system. They're both now working professionals, you know, doing really well for the profession, as well as the communities where they serve. So my husband and I continue to enjoy our life in Minnesota. We each have enjoyed really rewarding professional careers here in between cities that have such a rich business environment that, you know, we each have enjoyed lots of opportunities for growth and made lots of good friends, you know, so as far as we're concerned, this is home. Absolutely. Amazing and truly exceptional American story. It's let me get it right. And so you basically, in seven years, you completed K-12. Nine years. Nine years. Yes. You're truly a project. And the professors who met you and can't, you know, wait to introduce you to Minnesota. And we are lucky to have you here. And you just mentioned you recently revisited Tianjin. When was it during the pandemic? Right before the pandemic. Yeah, wonderful circumstance because in 2019, Nankai University celebrated its 100th anniversary. Yes. And as part of that celebration, many of us returned to campus, you know, to go back to our beloved campus. I mean, you're just very emotional. But as part of that journey, there's a whole group of us who started a fund. It was the Roland and Rachel Fisher Theater Activity Fund for the Institute for Foreign Languages of the Nankai campus. Part of the reason was Roland and Rachel Fisher were instrumental in bringing theater movies, the activity of drama to the foreign languages. Back then it was the Foreign Language Department. And they both brought a passion and just a really dynamic pedagogical approach of using film and drama as a way to advance language and culture exchange. So not only did they teach in that setting, they were also visionaries and instrumental in creating these tours. So there were at least two tours that I know of. The first one I was part of, where we brought a classical Chinese drama. And I was part of the Thunderstorm Liu Taoist. So we produced that in English and then toured 10 universities in the U.S. So that was the first of many, many extraordinary culture exchanges so that we could bring Chinese literature and Chinese drama to the U.S. And then the Sincere State Theater Department actually produced Wizard of Oz and toured Chinese universities. And then back and forth. And then that same activity has occurred with other languages as well. So the impact of these two professors, not to mention the fact that they all, Roland and Rachel Fisher became our kind of adopted professional parents, so to speak. So there's a whole bunch of theater alumni who put together this fund. So we launched that fund specifically to support foreign language drama as a way to learn language and culture. So we launched that during the 100-year anniversary of the university. So we were all back. It was an amazing, emotionally rich experience. And I also, as part of the Carlson teaching assignment, I went back again in 2019 to teach a global talent management course as part of the Carlson Global Executive Education Program. Both times I was able to spend a lot of time in Tianjin, you know, being on campus and visiting family in Tianjin and all of my friends from middle school. So it was fantastic. It was right before the pandemic. Just the speed of growth and economic flourishing was just really tremendous. It was just very inspiring. I totally agree. We love Nankai and we love Tianjin. You might remember, my wife is from Tianjin. That's right. Yeah, which district you're from originally? Hebei. Hebei, yeah. Yeah, my wife is from Heodong. And you know, my favorite hotel, every time I go to Tianjin, I stay at Astor Hotel. Oh, sure. Because I love history. I love the every time I stay. I think I stayed at Fu Zuo Yi, which, you know, more than I can remember. They don't allow guests to stay at the doctor's in Tianjin anymore. Tianjin is fantastic. Before Shanghai, there was Tianjin. Tianjin was the most international, global and cosmopolitan entire China. And I'm thrilled to know that you are a fast reader as well. I read a book, and I want to extend my warmest invitation to you to come to my library. And I brought all my childhood books from China. Oh my god. Yeah, so I have more than 10,000 books in my library. And many of them probably you can recognize. I totally relate when you talk about this hunger for knowledge for our generation in the age of, you know, this book is so cherished, valued. It's not like the internet age. You can get any knowledge. You can google it. You can get knowledge. But for us, it's a completely different learning experience. Right. I know. Yeah. Now we get to your specialty, learning. You spend many years of helping Fortune 500 corporations and to develop leaders and to train your employees. And so what, how, the question is two parts. So you, what does a great leadership, leadership mean to you? And the second, you attract these talents and develop learning and training programs for you. But now we are in this pandemic that even goes and in this area of great resignation. And what do you do and what company do to retain and develop your employee? Yeah. Yeah. Such a rich question. Boy, we could spend quite some time here. I know. Yeah, I have been really fortunate to not only study leadership, but help organizations build leaders at all levels of the organization. So whether you're a first time supervisor or a senior executive, there are profound privileges as a leader, as a company and trust you to lead a team. And in some ways, it's very much calling upon our leaders to work for the greater good. You know, because leaders come with quite a bit of privilege in many ways. And how do you put that privilege and that power and that position to good use? So always at all levels, I look at leaders who put the company's objectives to put, who put the greater community needs ahead of their own. So to me, leaders work for the greater good work for the interests of the team, work for the interests of the company and the community they serve. The second thing about being a leader is a leader cannot possibly get all the work done. A leader is one who must get things done through others and with others. So in that sense, to the extent that you're able to bring out the best in others is it determines your leadership impact. So what can leaders do to coach and develop and power their team that's directly correlated to their effectiveness? And the third thing I always think about leaders, there was a saying about leaders and learners are kind of the same because ultimately, the world is a fast-changing world. You mentioned the idea around there's so much going on, there's great resignation, we're surviving the pandemic and the technology is accelerating so fast. There's no way a leader can possibly sit on their laurels and say, I know the answers. Follow me truly the idea about leaders. I loved this statement from, I think it's the futurist, Alvin Toffner, who said the illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read or write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn and relearn. And leaders appetite for finding new ways and being proven wrong and being willing to try new ways of getting things done is essential to their effectiveness. So with all of that, as you think about during the great resignation or we call it a great reshuffle, what are companies doing then to cultivate leaders? Because ultimately, leaders make the biggest difference in performance and culture and in retaining and developing talent. So we clearly recognize that and we put a lot of emphasis on leaders' ability to connect employees' day-to-day work to the higher purpose. Every organization exists to serve society in some meaningful way. So whether you're doing day-to-day accounting or taking care of customers, how does that work serve the greater purpose of the organization is very important right now as people are reexamining their life's priorities. And leaders are powerful instruments to create a sense of belonging and a sense of psychological safety, to create a place where every employee can bring their full self to fully contribute to the mission of that team. And during this really volatile situation in moment in time, you know, empathy being real human and helping employees find a path for career growth. Those are some of the most important things that we're asking leaders to do. You know, you mentioned this great resignation situation. It is true. Skill shortage is the number one disruptor to business right now. In fact, in 2021, there was a record number of American employees who resigned from their positions. You know, over 50 million people left their jobs last year. And burnout is the primary driver for that resignation pattern. So what is it? You know, is it more pay? Is it opportunities for advancement? Is it relief in the sense of a new start? And many discussions, many reports are now showing that this need for continued flexibility is a driver to some of those career decisions. So there's a lot we can do to help our employees feel inspired, feel engaged and retain with our organizations. Companies are really tuning into this because it is a challenge and it's a significant inhibitor for growth this year. And I'm taking notes. I think that we're going to just publish what you said just then we will transcribe what you just said going to be a great IC on leadership. And I thought, yeah, I thought the employee myself. But I feel like this time is volatile. It's uncertain. It's complex. And it's ambiguous. Yes. And I suppose like you described today's dynamic environment business environment as uncertain, but to keep our faith. But what's your advice to a people like me and to people younger than me? Yeah, build a fulfilling and a resilient career in this very fast training work. Right. For sure. For sure. We're all employees, first and foremost. So so many things that we can take charge instead of being victimized by circumstances. So first of all, if you have not done so speak up, you know, I recommend everyone to say make sure your manager knows that you're hungry for development, make sure team members are aware that you're looking for opportunity to stretch and pick up new skills. Every team, every project that you work on, let people know that you are hungry and willing to try new things. And secondly, make learning your own objectives, you know, what you know, we sometimes talk about five at five, like at five o'clock every day, take five minutes and think about what did I learn today? Is there any work or relationship that I need to draw closure on today? Or sometimes we have a 10, 10 at 10 kind of a mindset. I didn't invent these ideas. I learned it from others that at 10 o'clock, you take 10 minutes and learn something, you know, reflect on a lesson learned today or read 10 pages. You know, all of these things are small, but add up over time. Whitney Johnson has this powerful concept of taking the S curve of innovation and apply it to career development. So inevitably, at the beginning of a new assignment, new job, new situation, you're feeling fearful, frustrated, anxious, isn't going to work. So you feel that optimistic to stress, but then gradually you rise on the back of that ice curve, the S curve to feel like unsuccessful and unbeatable and confident. When you reach the top of your S curve, you feel like master of your trade. That's when actually there's the greatest danger in comfort zone because that's when you're least on your toes. And that's where you're growing the least. So embrace that as Curven be willing to say, I'm going to try a new gig. I'm going to try a new assignment to keep myself growing. So take this growth objective as your day to day priority rather than waiting for others to develop you. Wonderful advice to both the leaders and employees. So we are all learners. Just like I think strike me like similar to, you know, courtroom with both the judges and the lawyers are learners. Right. You have to keep up with the development with law and just like business leaders and employees. Of course, you're the master of that. I'm not no master and just the starting. But I believe that what you advise to the leaders and employees to be lifelong learner and it could be a lifelong important advice. And we are just have a minute to left, but we do wrap up the show by asking our distinguished guests normally two questions. The question one is if you were to give some advice to 20, what would you say? The second question is any recommendation you would recommend to our audience? Yeah. So looking back, you know, here we're talking about life as immigrants. I find that I've spent so much time trying to learn the norms of my new country, trying to fit in trying to understand how to become part of the team so that I can contribute. So looking back, I probably would encourage myself to stand out more rather than fit in more. Because certainly you want to assimilate to the team. Certainly you want to be relatable. Yet at the same time, we each bring unique perspectives and experiences and skills. We got to bring that uniqueness to the team, bring the full force of your passion and your expertise. And that's how you make the greatest contribution. So yeah, so that would be my greatest learning. And then in terms of a book or a movie, so many, but my go to is a book called Mindset is by my by Carol Dweck, a Stanford psychologist who has done this really seminal work around your belief that you can grow, especially through challenges, kind of determines your ability to actually learn and grow and become that much more effective. There's so much research behind that. And quite frankly, it's very meaningful, whether you're a parent or a professional or a teacher or a leader, it is very important lessons to be taken. Wonderful, otherwise, I will check it out. Thank you for the recommendation. And thank you so much for your time, Ross. It's a privilege and pleasure to talk with you about your life, your adventure, and learning leadership. And the most importantly, how to be a leader. Thank you so much, Rob. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you. I'd like to have you here. Aloha. See you next time.