 Good morning everybody. Welcome. We're delighted to have you here and thank you for coming out on an early morning And this is going to be really an interesting discussion. I had I'm a little blurry it you got back late last night. I recently was in in Burma and or now Myanmar and You know, it's a sort of a tortured country it did it to itself unfortunately it was there had been a military coup 50 years ago and they You know, they systematically just kind of undermined what had been one of the most promising economies in in Asia and destroyed a bureaucracy kind of undermined What was a good rule of law system, but they're not coming out of it and Our ambassador there is doing a fabulous job and the team is doing a fabulous job But they are starting from really scratch And we want them to succeed and we want them to become a partner And they need help and that was the backdrop for me when I read this report over the weekend I Hadn't really appreciated that we were doing this work And it was something that was seized upon by congressman Bustani and by congressman polis and said, you know This is important to us Trade is an important dimension of America's engagement not just its economy, but it's foreign policies is important to us And but we need to look at the How well do we do this? How well do we help other countries like Burma? Become successful, you know, and how can they reach up and it's it's one of those things We're not well organized. We've got good tools In the government, but we're not well organized as a government And I think that what you're going to hear today. It's rare. Let me say when Two members of Congress especially across the aisle were prepared to sit and work on the kind of the deep plumbing of government And say how do we make this better? And it's a tribute to them that they were willing to take this time and I want to say a personal Thank you. It's a rare thing and a much appreciated thing when we see this level of Leadership in government and I'd say thank you to you for it. I thank my friends from Chevron who have been making possible This series on development. It's a very important thing for us To be able to present to the Washington policy community and they've been generous in their support to make it happen And I would just like to give a shout out to two two of our young colleagues And that's Charles Rice and Christina Perkins who did so much of the work in making this happen I'll just tell you, you know people like me get to stand up here and take a lot of credit for good things that happen But it's there those are the guys that do the work and so I should be honest about it and say a sincere Thank you to them for really fine fine work. Let me turn it over to you Dan I think we want to get this started for real and again. Let me just say congressman. Thank you for being here. We're really honored that you're here Thank You dr. Hamry. I Also want to thank our friends at Chevron. Thank you Joanna for being here We were able to do this with through our Chevron partnership They grasped this immediately the role of the private sector and development We've been working with them for a number of years and want to also thank Caitlyn Sunofi who's Who is Dr. Bustani's? Point person on trade related issues if it wasn't for her in terms of her tireless efforts to help us I think this also would not have gotten done. So Caitlyn. Thank you very very much Also, one of you're gonna hear from some of the members of the expert panel the task force that we put together And there really was a great great group and in particular Andrea and Delma and Paul particularly gonna hear from them It's just really great. And then I think we could not have done this without Scott Miller who really knows the trade world very very well We had to have both trade and development together in one conversation, which is in interesting cultures that as well So I think it's I think it's very very interesting As dr. Hamry mentioned This came about because dr. Bustani spent his long Thanksgiving holiday his 40 holiday reading a report that Scott and I had written about a new development agenda about trade investment and procurement and called Scott and said, you know Can we come talk about this and I said I didn't think I spend my Thanksgiving holiday reading our report So I was quite impressed that I mean I do read them But I don't spend my Thanksgiving holiday doing so but I thought that was great and then We and he he talked about his vision for how we're gonna how do we get all of American power together? How do we use American power in a in a thoughtful coordinated strategic way that was where he was coming from and then Obviously, we were very very grateful to get Congressman polls. Thank you as well. Well, look, I think you have the report in front of you I'm not gonna say anything more, but the members of Congress are very busy So I'm gonna turn the floor refers to dr. Bustani congressman from Louisiana then we'll hear from Congressman Polis dr. Bustani, thank you Well Dan Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Dan, I want to thank you and Scott This was this was a great great effort and a lot of fun doing this and I want to thank the entire team at CSIS For turning this idea that we brainstormed in my office one morning into reality and I think we've got a really good report To my friend Jared Polis. Thank you. I really appreciate it This was a bipartisan effort and this is where our best work comes from when we can put our heads together and really You know come up with a solid proposal that both sides can agree to I think this this is the basis of really good policy And I want to thank all the members of the task force who braved some early mornings on Capitol Hill a lot of heated discussion and we I think it really led to You know really fleshing out a lot of the details that we've been able to work on But as many of you know the United States has been involved in trade capacity assistance for quite some time working with developing countries to help them benefit from global trade and At the same time We have seen trade world trade undergo dramatic expansion and and and Changes over time over the last 20 years Growth rates for international commerce have clearly surpassed both population and production and most remarkably the share of world trade From developing countries has now surpassed that of industrial The in the industrial countries mirroring the parallel rise and income and purchasing power in the developing world And even so not all countries have participated equally in these advances Many poor countries still strive to fully benefit from integration into the global markets And so now as we've embarked on two 21st century agreements TPP and t-tip. I think it's really important that we we understand the role of trade capacity building because clearly this This is going to make a difference as we take these very disparate economies and Try to pull them together in a 21st century agreement that involves not just tariff reductions But dealing with the complexity of regulatory coherence Many of these 21st century issues and I just got back from Asia Visiting some of our TPP countries and in particularly as we sat down with the prime minister of Malaysia Foreign minister and others there we you know we It becomes quite evident that we have a lot of work ahead of us to try to pull this together To make this this type of an agreement successful, but I do believe that these kinds of agreements Will really benefit from a robust trade capacity building peace and I think We can we can clearly set new standards for trade if we look at it in this way I believe that I mean you think about this you got Vietnam and Malaysia Trying to work out a 21st century trade agreement with the United States and Canada and Australia and the others in this agreement We've got to figure out how do you bring this all together? These countries want to be a part of this but they're going to need the assistance and this is where we have a huge opportunity I believe it's through trade capacity building that the United States The United States can actually maximize the benefit provided by trade liberalization across the board it will certainly ensure that our partner countries can meet the requirements of the agreements and And also guarantees that developing nations can capitalize on a new and beneficial trade agreement that will see their population benefit I do believe that trade capacity building is more necessary than ever as I mentioned earlier. We trade has become a very complicated Issue with many new, you know new new problems that have arisen as we've entered this 21st century So but as we talked about on that very first day in my office trade capacity building has not received the kind of attention It really needs to have and so the task force meetings During during all this effort in the task force meetings. It became apparent that deficiencies Were clearly present in the quality of products speed of transport quality of regulation that prevented many of these countries From reaping the full benefits of trade agreements We need to update our trade capacity building strategy to reflect the current environment And I think there's clearly there are clearly a number of lessons to be learned many of these we fleshed out as we discussed The problems and and it's reflected in the report. I do believe that a global system of free trade That engages and allows all to benefit especially developing countries should be viewed in the context of the broader National interest in the United States. This is a key piece to our policy And it hasn't been seen as such in recent years and it's time to redouble our efforts to make it so Economic development policy and trade capacity building are now Increasingly interlinked as a global market has grown nations have become more in economically connected and we've got complex issues That we're facing and so I look forward to really promoting this report Taking what's in the report and trying to get policies in place that will really move the ball forward on this So again, thank you for being here this morning and we look forward to further conversation Thanks again, thank you very much congressman congressman polis come on up here and share your perspective on this It was really great to have you help us co-lead this and co-convene this. Thank you Please sit down. Hey Okay Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'll be happy to thank you. I'll be happy to okay Thank you very much. I think thank you very much. I Have many outspoken constituents as well who have Sending in my office and conveying similar messages Good morning. It's great to see so many people interested at 7 30 in the morning and trade capacity building topic In fact, I think if you recall when we first met my advice was how do we make this sexy? Well having a nice place to him on purpose They kind of wake people up. They're having a nice full-color bound report is a step in that direction And dr. Buston and I will help ensure that all of our colleagues read every word of that There'll be a quiz we're gonna help circulate that but again, I want to thank everybody for being here I want to thank of course The Center for international strategic studies for hosting this Representative Bustani for his great leadership to CSIS program experts and members of the task force Trade capacity building is really a critical tool in enabling the growth and self-sufficiency of developing companies It helps fulfill the promise of trade and helps ensure the stability of our global economy and our global political structure By growing the ability of under-resourced countries to utilize global trading system and rules for their advantage and for their economic growth We increase the capacity of our economy here at home as well and the stability of the world as a whole We enlarge the field of potential customers for domestically produced goods We encourage innovation and entrepreneurship across the world and we help promote positive developments in civil rights in the social order and developing nations By closing the loop on trade among and between greater numbers of countries. We bring the geopolitics of trade And the health of our shared economy Further out into the open and enhance the prospects for global economic growth and stability With the finalization of the Trans-Pacific Partnership proposal on the horizon and the acknowledgment of success and failure Among various trade agreements in the past were constantly reminded that the enduring global benefit of any major trade agreement depends on its implementation And how heavily the ability of partnering countries have to fulfill their own goals in a trade agreement Absent this meaningful follow-through and trade capacity building trade agreements are simply words on on paper that aren't given life With TPP This includes the responsibility of other countries to meet certain civil rights standards can apply with environmental protections observe rights for workers many other benchmarks that frankly Become harder and harder when a country cannot implement an enforced policies to comply with our perspective of 21st century ethics and norms consistent with trade capacity building under the rules Not only stipulated in our trade agreements, but also in our laws here in the United States a Developing nation risk losing its ability fulfill the goals of trade agreements if its economy Becomes unable to sustain market competitiveness or expected Changes under these provisions Unfortunately, there's many countries that have legacy capital ownership systems of oligarchies or a few families that own the means of productions without allowing any type of competition and of course Those types of companies are unable to compete and increase in global economy The report under discussion today brings to light not only the need for strength and trade assistance But the opportunities that exist for increased aid where holes remain for critical trade capacity more broadly Some of the action items which I hope are followed up on are very important To me and my colleagues in Washington including the commissioning of a task force by the president of budget items specifically committed to trade capacity building and a commitment of our foreign ambassadors as well as training to raise the conversation here in abroad I Think these findings are innovative necessary and comprehensive and they'll certainly have my advocacy going forward I want to thank my counterparts again for this effort I look forward to working with all of you to building a global trading system that lifts all boats and that Every country can universally benefit and the people across the world will be able to to derive benefit from as well Thank you. Thank you We just had a couple questions for each of you I know you all have You're busy back up up on the hill and thanks for coming down to To be with us Dr. Bestani you began this inquiry when you were chairman of the House Ways and Means Chairman of the South House Ways and a subcommittee on oversight Could you talk a little bit about how Congress can improve the performance of you as trade assistance efforts? Just talk a little bit more about how you think about Congress's role in this Well, Congress needs guidance and I think this report provides a good template for that kind of guidance and Just as we as we went through our trade capacity Programs throughout our throughout the US government. We realize it's all spread through different agencies Congress also has the same type of snow piping and I think we have to figure out how in Congress we're going to organ organize an effort to Streamline this type of policy I think the line item issue in the appropriations could be very helpful and Providing some guidance there, but as you can imagine this cuts across US TR and cuts state USAID Exon Bank OPEC and other agencies so This is a perennial problem that Congress has to address as well as our our executive branch Offices great. Thank you Congress and policy and some of your remarks you alluded to this, but Many members of Congress are concerned about trade agreements and what the trade assistance programs How do you how do you hope that they'll? They'll improve the results achieved in trade agreements to get to get folks to have a higher degree of acceptance of trade agreement Well, you know I don't know it's if trade assistance and trade capacity building are going to change anybody's mind about trading in general But I hope it's something that both opponents and proponents of various treaties should be able to agree upon and if we're going to have A particular trade agreement whether whether someone supports it or not To make it work better for the people of our country and certainly the people of the country that we have the trade agreement with We should invest it and take seriously trade capacity building and trade assistance So I hope it's a piece that people can agree on It's also a face to trade that that we can talk about more in terms of talking about the benefits of trade and and helping countries gain make sure that those benefits of trade are our Recognized do you think I had something? Jared and I had some conversations about How can we get small and mid-sized firms involved in trade? There's a great deal of interest in my district in this issue and By building our trade capacity This this helps our small businesses because there's a little bit more certainty in what they're dealing with as a as they try to engage in commerce overseas and Jared bought that perspective to the to the table on this and it's something I've been thinking about and I've been thinking about it in terms of the agreements, but in terms of capacity building is it's critical Yeah, and I and to follow up I mean certainly one of the challenges on my side of the aisle of trade is there's a Perception really misperception that somehow oh it only benefits a few large corporations, right? And and you know and frankly there's large companies that can make whatever rules exist work for them But who does this type of agreement with the right capacity building really benefit? It's the small and medium-sized businesses. It's entrepreneurs It's people who are self-employed that are able to participate. So that's kind of putting a better base on trade Small holder farmers I think of the kinds of programs we talked about in the report like sorts of programs a id runs Where it's how to help small holder farmers take advantage of agreements increase their productivity So they can sell sell more goods and services into the global economy So it's it's just in line with what you're saying congressman. Absolutely I'm just cognizant of the time are we okay on time because I just could I just When a trade agreement comes up up up to the hill for a vote does this how does this how does this play in it? Does this how does this factor in in terms of how members of Congress talk about a trade agreement? We've touched on this a little bit But if you could just it may not necessarily sell the sell the agreement Does it make it more palatable for some members of Congress say well, okay? If this is included in here, I feel somewhat better that either a it's gonna It's gonna make trade more accessible for small medium-sized enterprise or be It's gonna help with certain sorts of labor dealing with certain sorts of labor Components or certain sorts of it meeting certain helping them meet certain environmental standards or that sort of a thing Does that does it make it more subtle? I certainly think USTR when they're negotiating these things see this see this and I think we'll hear from the panel It's sort of a something that they trade or they offer it as sort of a I think I'm gonna put words in their mouth But when I was an aid it always seemed to me from the USTR perspective that they this was sort of a gimme or this was sort of something That was sort of as part of getting the deal done. Yeah, is this is this how people on the Hill see it Well, it really should be something that's frankly taken taken seriously I plan on talking about it on the floor of the house during the debate I plan on encouraging my colleagues that are looking at this issue to really take a serious look at Capacity building as well. So I mean again, it's it's and also to take the recommendations of the report seriously So I mean, it's not just something that People should give lip service to there's some actionable items. Some of them are congressional some of them are executive And I certainly plan on working with dr. Brestoni and others to follow up on those. This is music to our ears That's it's really great. Thank you. You know, I think We have a historically open market here in the United States And I think a lot of our colleagues are concerned about whether we're really truly opening markets overseas for our businesses Is it is it a balanced playing field? I think that's one of the fundamental arguments you hear and and for those who are who? Reflexively oppose these trade agreements. I think you know, they're saying wait a minute This is really not going to open up the market because even though there may be some nominal tariff reductions It's the behind-the-border issues that that are going to still present themselves as barriers to trade and barriers to American business and so Trade capacity building and this type of assistance. I think While it doesn't solve everything it helps. It's a it's an additional tool So that we do have a level playing field that and I think it's a tool that we can use To help sell these trade agreements to those who are skeptical Can I just ask I wanted to see if one of the members of the task force or Scott Miller had a question for them Given this conversation I you all are not shy. No, none of the three of you are shy nor is my friend Scott Miller. Go ahead Thelma Is that on the agenda? Yes, so prospective TPA and the currency issue the question by Thelma asking former head of USTDA both very important timely questions We are very close to getting finalization of trade promotion authority legislative language Which would then be introduced in the House and Senate And then hopefully Move will move it this spring as quickly as possible Because we realize we're on a pretty tight timeline right now if you're looking at negotiations Looking at the political calendar here and so forth We really want to move forward with this and so there are just a couple of minor sticking points mostly involving Senate related issues in TPA and I think we're very close to getting those resolved So I would look to see trade promotion authority legislation introduced sometime You know this spring and we'll move it on the currency issue Certainly among Republicans in the House Ways and Means Committee. We are really concerned And do not think currency language Should be part of this These are fights that have occurred before there are a number of reasons why currency First of all, there's no agreed-upon definition of currency manipulation We think this is best addressed through the G20 and IMF Mechanisms you could argue whether the IMF mechanism needs to be strengthened through article 4 But and that's something we can talk about But I think the fact of the matter is if you do put currency legislation in there And I think we're opening the door to a number of Adverse consequences for the United States We are the reserve currency that puts that potentially at risk we We invite retaliation we then and if you link it to tariffs then we're basically setting up a potential endless cycle of you know trade obstruction and I Think if you're going to address currency manipulation, it's basically a meaningless issue in the bilateral context You know with some of the metrics that are used you it's got to be looked at in a broad context to get to a real meaningful Definition and then there they're blurred areas between what what constitutes currency manipulation versus Misalignment and and how do you you know, how do you treat how do you deal with all that? so we think this is best dealt with outside of TPA and and specifically not should not be in a in TPP or T-TIP Well, and congressman, thank you both for being here. You are very busy. We really appreciate coming over here to CSIS Thank you for your leadership on this task force. We could have done it without both of you. Thank you so much Please join me in thanking members Bustani and Polis Scene change at a seat Somebody who's going to find a chair Why don't I turn it over sure I'm Scott Miller. I'm the shul chair in international business here at CSIS had the privilege of working with Dan Rundy and his group and On this particular project One of the best things that I've discovered about working at CSIS Is the fact that you can undertake a project and there are lots of really talented Experienced people out there who are prepared to work with you. It's just a it's it's a it's an exciting and satisfying part of the job here and This project was was one that attracted Uniquely capable group that we call the Congressional Task Force of people with broad experience through all kinds of government service and private sector experience To help inform this project and this report would not have been possible without them We greatly appreciate their efforts and we're fortunate today to be joined by three of those task force members Who are who may be familiar to you? But certainly we are we would greatly value their contribution and hope to have a discussion about sort of the the nuts and bolts of Trade assistance and how it can work better Here with me our first film ASCII family is the president of rock art global strategies And also a senior advisor to CSIS, but had a long career in government before this current Role including deputy secretary general of the OECD Thumbel was the director of US trade and development agency and the staff director for the trade subcommittee of the House Ways and Means Committee So it brings broad experience and particularly will get a Senate perspective as well But we're always glad when we have House members to have have somebody from the house to represent In any case next we'll hear from Andrea Durk and Andrea's principle of spark plug strategic consulting But Andrea is it was part of our group because of her crucial experience as a US TR negotiator Andrea was one of the people at US TR when the when the US government first decided to do something called trade capacity building and included in negotiations and Andrea was one of the people sort of present at the creation to try to figure out how this thing worked and how to make it effective And her experience was was it was pivotal to this after US TR Andrea worked as a director of international government relations for Abbott Laboratories, but is now on her own and and Running her consulting business. So thank you Andrea and finally Paul Delaney Paul is principal of a Kyle house group Consulting firm, but Paul has the unique experience of private sector executive branch and Legislative branch experience on issues like trade trading the development and Trade policy Paul's career includes being trade council of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Senate Finance Committee Excuse me the Deputy Chief of Staff of the US Trade Representative's office and in the private sector Paul worked for FedEx Express Well, we think of as a global company. So in any case, thank you all for your contributions We welcome those panelists and I'd like to start by hearing from each in each of you in turn by your views on this project And how we move forward Good morning everyone. I think it's not so early now. So welcome to those who have joined us I'll talk a little bit about the importance of trade agreements and It's a historical discussion when we get to into the context of trade promotion authority what used to be called fast track and Also trade agreements themselves as well as how we can leverage Trade capacity building in those agreements and and why we might be interested in doing that in addition to having Good talking points for your colleagues when you're trying to get these things through the legislative process I have to say I'm a bit envious when Dr. Bastani talked about Having the fast track I mean the trade promotion authority bill come up in the spring here within the next few weeks Because there was always the hope that you could do these things outside of a political cycle Or it at a convenient time when there is not so much Pressure on on members to to make this decision more objectively. I don't think that ever happened when I was on the hill So it did help you say well it can be done even in a political season But it's nice to I think to have a little bit of time to reflect On why these agreements are important and of course the first reason is how beneficial exporting At world trade is to our country during the last five years exports have hit record highs It's now about two point three five trillion and at the end of 2013 into 2014 up roughly 50 percent since 2009 and of course rising exports contribute to nearly one-third of the overall economic growth since the recession in 2008 over 300,000 American companies export Goods and as the members alluded to earlier Over 95% of those companies are small or medium sized companies who really need to have a level playing field or a more Economic oriented playing field to deal with exports of goods and services supported 11.3 million jobs in the United States and that's up 1.6 million jobs since 2009 and of course the jobs issue is always a one that we need to discuss in the context of approving Agreements trade agreements and trade promotion authority It's unfortunate that we don't often get the support or I don't think ever have gotten the support of work That's labor on on these issues, but it does help members talk to their constituents About why jobs are important in this context of the fact that the creation of jobs is not a forgotten or kind of a Peripheral issue with respect to these trade agreements Because jobs that are associated with exports generally pay higher wages 18 to 20 percent more than the average wage in the US I think what we need to do keep in mind when we're Looking at trade agreements that we're looking at trade capacity building as part of those agreements or in the aftermath of those agreements is that what do we achieve? in in the broader sense in In a larger policy objective and of course we have our own self-interest and I think the statistics that I have just outlined demonstrates that self-interest International trade is a large part of our economy and It also brings these countries into the global trading environment that helps them discipline themselves it also is a Way for the US to exercise leadership Trade agreements aren't always huge multilateral agreements that take years to negotiate and sometimes years and years and years to negotiate but when you try to when the US exercises leadership and and Does things like TPP T tip and others where you're basically looking at whoops, excuse me You're looking at the coalition of the willing Even agreements like NAFTA which started as a US Canadian agreement and then move forward it basically is negotiating Taking the leadership to negotiate with a multilateral brain But a bilateral or trilateral or small group practical Implication because if you're thinking with the multilateral brain those agreements can be translated into the larger context at a later time as Country see that it is worth it to undertake these disciplines and and receive these benefits and of course Trade agreements are a way to discipline ourselves as whether as well as discipline are A trading partners because as you come to these common Agreements as to what is expected and what kind of environment you want to trade in It it works to Move everyone to the same plane. I think we saw that over and over again with these trade agreements NAFTA Certainly a good example almost immediately after the ink was dry the peso crisis hit Mexico But they will certainly say now that the fact that the agreement was in place allowed them to make Choices that were probably better for them them in the long run than they would have if They didn't have Mechanism to create this self-discipline and of course finally more tangible less tangibly is American economic influence and the projection of American values because as we're As we undertake this leadership role and try to push for for things that the US wants to see We often achieve Very positive results in as we show countries why our firms are as Creative and as productive as they are why they have the technology they do and I think as we if we just move this is a good segue into trade capacity building because When it comes to trade agreements and the connection with trade capacity building What these company? I mean what these countries often want from the US is That kind of business experience that kind of technology transfer that kind of Way that the US and these very successful companies do business We're talking about trade capacity building Not in a sense of providing large Agricultural assistance or food assistance basic needs assistance. This is trade capacity building that allows the US to expand its influence and and the way that we do business highly competitive highly individualistic And yet playing by the same rules and discipline so we have those Things to achieve and I think when we find out What the countries want in the context of the trade capacity building You will find that High on their list is how does the US? Make their firms so successful and can we follow those? mechanisms those best practices In order to make our cells as competitive without a lot of government interference or without a lot of government subsidization In choosing winners and losers So I think We talked briefly this morning about whether or not trade capacity building can help you achieve trade agreements How much of a bargaining chip are they it's been my experience. It's not a large bargain bargaining chip because countries Don't want to you know kind of get into the morass of Trade capacity building before they know what the balance of concessions are going to be on the trade agreement And so I I can think of US TRs who had to Continue continually put this on the table You know say okay you develop your list of what you want to see when the agreement is concluded You take the lead on trade capacity building and we'll try to respond to that Do we want to work on anti-corruption? Do we just need to work on GSP and how to take advantage of it or Etc. So there's a little bit of a dance that goes on with with trade capacity building until the balance of concessions Reveals itself more toward the end But I think trade capacity building could be very very valuable for the US in the context of a trade agreement Because countries can see that when they join a trade agreement when they accept Disciplines under the trade agreement that the US response is there and they can see a real value in Following the US lead Thank you Andrea, that's what it was like when you got the assignment to do trade capacity building Okay, I'll come I'll come back around to that one That's a longer story. I always mark half the time by how old my oldest daughter is because it's been it will remember I see him in the audience. I was pregnant throughout the process That was 11 years ago. So I really appreciate CSIS bringing this topic to the fore again because It's time to update our thinking about it and to you know, there's so many more opportunities today to Implement trade capacity building and you know, we were we were making it up as we went along So we'll come back. I think we did a pretty good job. We made it up as we went along Listen, I I want to address Some of the very pragmatic recommendations that are in this report From the perspective of the executive branch of former trade negotiator and how we can organize ourselves in a way The executive branch working with Congress can not only execute trade capacity building better But plan forward and become more strategic about it more visionary about how we lay the foundation for economic success in developing countries Dr. Hamry mentioned Myanmar this morning It's a great point, you know, we we we shouldn't limit ourselves and are thinking about trade capacity building Just to FTA partners We need to be thinking about laying the economic foundations in markets that are today thought of as frontier markets by US businesses Or with the right investments in trade capacity building can be the frontier markets of tomorrow The reason I loved the trade negotiating world was because you know being a trade negotiator involves a lot of creativity the business the pace of business is moving so quickly the complexity of trade has Has grown tremendously. It's multi-directional with global value chains and provisions need to be evergreen evolved and really invented in order to address the way commerce is conducted today and The way we think about it is to expand the realm of opportunities It's not about dividing a fixed pie and I think we need to bring that kind of mindset to trade capacity building as well What we try to do As negotiators is to learn from the private sector about how the marketplace works But I think in doing trade capacity building We have a whole lot to learn from the development community as well How do we help? Companies in developing countries become part of the global value chains. How do we help developing countries become reliable trading partners? How do we help them? Improve the capacity of their local institutions to support modern economic activity Well, I think the report rightly points out that there are at least three obstacles to doing that better going forward the first is that trade policy tends to be centralized and The execution of development assistance is decentralized So we have to create more fluid interaction. I think with the amazing and informed staff we have at the embassies Who know what's happening on the ground who have local relationships? We also have a tremendous amount of variety of good programming across the agencies AID is and and the Millennium Challenge Corporation are primary Agencies that deliver economic deliver development assistance, but we have some really great programs across the agencies when I was with Abbott as Scott mentioned I worked a lot with Abbott nutrition on food safety issues and Particularly in a pack where we were developing food safety quality training for countries throughout a pack and USDA and commerce were pivotal in putting those programs together and it made sense because USDA has that particular expertise And so that we need to figure out how we improve coordination across agencies to really Maximize the value from the programs that reside across various agencies And I think if we're going to better align trade commitments With trade capacity building We have to overcome the tendency to segment the negotiations that the politics of the segment the Process of developing trade policy and I'll explain what I mean about that in just a moment So how do we leverage the diverse knowledge and skills across the US agencies so that we can see around the corner and develop smart strategic trade capacity building Approaches on an ongoing and not an episodic basis I think the first thing is as the report recommends that we create a formal Process so that there is clear responsibility that there is clear ownership given to an agency or agencies that have a broad view on this And that they can create a standing committee so that we can better manage on an ongoing basis the planning Execution and evaluation of trade capacity building But I do think in order to do this well, we're going to need more staff And staff are going to have to be dedicated to the process. I don't think you can append this to People who have already really full portfolios and do this right So I think we have to give trade capacity building its due Dedicate the right amount of staff have them participate in formal standing Processes to do it and I think given the amount of money we put in trade capacity building is that would be the right and responsible thing to do Secondly I mentioned the problem of centralized policymaking and decentralized assistance a Necessary improvement is to ensure that the embassy personnel are also part of that formal organization You know, they do work together. I know to develop country plans for the AID process But let's make sure that that information that thinking all of those insights come back to Washington and get Fed back into, you know, this new standing committee so that they can benefit from those insights and not Be handed an agenda not have to Implement something after the fact that was cooked up in Washington They should be part of the planning process part of the execution process part of the evaluation process And it works in both directions. Certainly those country plans could be well informed by The discussions that go on in the standing committee that's based here in Washington, so it works both directions I think that this way of working together could be normative and even reflexive If it's modeled through leadership behavior But I do think it probably needs some formal processes around it to create the disciplines in the first instance Third if we use these processes then we can turn to the natural segmenting of the trade policy process and use it to our advantage So what I mean by that is we often engage in this pre negotiation process, right? Where we sit down with other countries. It's sort of a low stakes environment. It's not a formal negotiating environment We're asking each other questions about what the provisions mean. We're sharing information about laws and regulations We're finding out a whole lot about how the systems in both countries work That's an incredibly useful time to start identifying the gaps Where trade capacity building can be? Deployed and if we have a standing committee and we have folks who are dedicated to thinking and hearing in that way Then they should be participating in that pre negotiation process. That's good prep work During the negotiation if we have a new committee like this Then we can discuss across agencies and with the embassies. What are the potential obstacles to even finishing the negotiations? What are the obstacles potentially to implementing the agreement and begin thinking about that as we're negotiating? And I think critically if we do that we have the embassies then Providing us with the insights about what's happening on the ground what's happening in country and working with The host governments to develop these plans to co-develop the plans, right? Because it doesn't work if the host government is not involved in developing trade capacity building and In implementing it because you know beyond the US involvement in those programs need to be sustainable and continue After formal us trade capacity building assistance and I do think that we need to start that process have those discussions as the negotiations are ongoing The last comment I would make is that I personally don't think we should wait until we're done negotiating to implement trade capacity building assistance I don't think we Should use it as a bargaining chip. I don't think that we should use it as any kind of incentive or leverage in the negotiations You know look the agreements are only as good as can be implemented So that's an investment that we're making that's important to start up front and not really use it as a bargaining chip in the negotiations The negotiations are dynamic They're going to reveal a lot of issues Where trade capacity building can be enormously helpful. I think it can help get the negotiations across the finish line and Frankly, you know our companies want to be able to utilize the agreement on day one They have to wait for the negotiations to be completed. They wait for Congress to approve it They wait for customs to implement it You know, there's a lot of intervening time here where we could be implementing trade capacity building so that on day one It's useful for our companies and it's useful for companies in the developing country partners So I think I'll leave it there. Maybe in the Q&A we can come back to the War stories Thank you Paul sure well Thank You Scott and Dan and CSIS again for for convening the group and putting the paper together and certainly the leadership of congressman Bustani and polis I mean, I'll just touch on a couple couple areas one as Scott mentioned. I've looked at these issues from different perspectives trade and development is a topic that's been around for decades and It is a logical synergy between the two communities But I think Dan alluded to and certainly the congressman Bustani did the communities haven't really worked together seamlessly The trade community from the agency perspective and Andrea just went Andrea just went through some of the challenges we faced we have a very Disciplined centralized trade policy making apparatus the private sector knows how to engage with that apparatus And yet we have sort of disparate Development agencies and the coordination are lack thereof I think has held back some of the trade and development opportunity on the hill You see the same phenomenon where you have I worked on the finance committee You have the ways it means committee who are focused on on oversight and trade negotiations Then you have the foreign affairs and foreign relations committee is looking at USAID and state or the I committees Looking at USAID and then we have the appropriators who are funding and I think that the line item is actually very interesting An important recommendation because I think our goal has to be and I think a lot of our discussion and the task force is How do we make trade and development? How do you make that nexus? Real and it's going to take legislative coordination. It's going to take executive branch coordination And I think what I'd like to focus a few more minutes on is it's sort of stakeholder coordination And you touched on this some is that it's fascinating even within companies and when I worked at FedEx and Had the opportunity to travel around the world and work with our operators and all these countries But of different levels of development You realize that there's an incredible amount of innovation and creativity and operational know-how Proctoring Ambul and other company where Scott worked There's this untapped resource and it's only growing that one of the biggest changes a statistic But I think it's fascinating as you look at 1962 When USAID was created you look at the capital flows into the developing world and 80% of the capital flows were official development assistance From the developed world today that number is about 10 percent. It's all private capital flow. It's all remittances so the landscape of what is actually impacting how developing countries grow is completely different and it's much more driven by Accessing the global economy by participating in global value chains by taking on the reforms beyond tariffs Behind the border type issues. So and and who has the best sort of window into Which of those problems are the most significant it's it's the operators It's the companies in country now It can be large multinationals that run express delivery networks But it's also the small businesses in country in the developing world or in the United States trying to figure out How do they partner? How do they access? so Interesting enough also in many companies much like the executive branch or the legislative branch the folks that work on trade policy and work on Regulatory barriers are often very different than the folks that work on the foundation of the folks that do the development partnership So you see that bifurcation within the companies. I think some of the work I've been doing great recently or seeing as you're seeing even within companies. They're starting to rethink their own approach in the developing world So the other trend I think that's very important as as we think about the recommendations and and how we move forward There is now a much larger pool of countries that are commercially significant that are emerging that are growing you have Companies that are investing, you know, there once was a brick strategy. You know, there's a 50 country strategy so that means that the companies themselves are investing resources and and and personnel and and Their own sort of strategic thinking into different parts of the world in a way They didn't 20 or 30 years ago in the development community world many of the large foundations the NGO actors the folks who've been delivering Global health food security clean water have been in many of those countries for a long time as well So they have a mission and operational expertise. So It's fascinating to look in country You see the private sector and development community working together to solve complex problems So we need to take that model and bring it to the executive branch bring it to the legislative process I think what I found most interesting in our discussions was The current state of affairs of trade capacity building is there isn't a definition You know, there's one there are some definitions, but there are four or five pages long. So it can be anything and everything That's probably not going to optimize results If anything we do in the development context could be called trade capacity building It's unlikely that the way we focus those resources or the way we focus our strategy is going to get the maximize results the other is prioritization is When you're at each country in this respect and I completely read Andrea that the country planning is so important It's going to be different if you're a landlocked sub-Saharan African country The challenges you face in terms of getting to scale or accessing the global economy is very different then if you have a strong port infrastructure on Region of the world that's located near demand. So how you would target your trade capacity assistance to those two countries might be very different the one Comment that throughout this process. I was happy to see incorporated in the report We have to figure out how to integrate that operational expertise Both from the development actors in country and the private sector into this process to help define and to help set the priorities So I think that's where there's a real opportunity You know one of the projects that many are working on right now is implementation of the WTO trade facilitation agreement There's an example of an agreement that on its face is a trade agreement Which is the first section in terms of a series of commitments that the WTO members have made but the second section explicitly contemplates donor Coordination and contributions to help developing countries meet those those standards So there's a lot of effort going into how do you integrate the private sector? Expertise into that process. How do you ensure that those resources that assistance whether it's bilateral assistance in the United States or Multilateral assistance is actually targeting the best practices and Tailored to those specific countries So I think that's a helpful I think that that's the fact that this is occurring and we're going through the process of hopefully ratification and then soon Sooner rather than later implementation and as that thinking has been developing This is very timely because we need to be doing it Specifically to implementing that agreement. We also be thinking about trade capacity building writ large same concept How do we prioritize? How do we define it? How do we integrate the operators? Who may not be familiar with the interagency may not understand exactly how the appropriators work and what foreign relations does and how Finance plays into it But I can assure you I had these discussions with with my old colleagues in five minutes. They can tell you what's the problem, right? You know, what is it in customs? What is it in business licensing? What is it that's preventing them from participating? Or competing in that economy and if we can incorporate that into this process I think you know the the output and the outcome will be much more positive Great. Thank you. Thanks to all the panelists I'd like to now turn to your questions and Just just three things to consider before we start first one when I recognize you please first wait for the microphone Okay, second when you have the we have an online audience that is the main reason but but it's also a big room second please start by Letting us know who you are and which organization you represent and third I call the Alex Trebek world Please make sure your question is in the form of question with that as well as predicate. I'd be delighted to answer questions Hi, my name is Daniel Gage. I'm with the State Department Sir, mr. Delaney just in reference to your recent comments and to all the panelists could you give me? I guess your understanding of the difference between trade facilitation and trade capacity building Sure, I don't think I think it's so much. There's a difference. I think trade facilitation is Looking at the sort of core customs administration issues So it literally is the mechanics of how to get goods in and out of a country So I think of it as almost a continuum. So transit. Yes a trade capacity building You know, it's all about your nexus to trade or your nexus to trade investment more broadly So trade facilitation, I think is sort of if trade capacity building is anything. It is that Then you can sort of step back and say there are other issues for implementing different aspects of chapters. It could be regulatory It could be transparency. It could be even how to negotiate these commitments So I would say your trade facilitation is clearly a piece of trade capacity building but I think part of why why we need discipline from a Inter-agency process from us a sort of strategy setting approach is amongst all these other activities that you could notionally consider trade capacity building, I mean everything you could get as remote to things such as Technology development or education or these types of things. I think it's important to consider with limited resources For funding that is intended to to generate the capacity to trade. What how close is it to that nexus? And the further you get away there needs to be a strategy or there needs to be an assessment or a metric That's saying look this these projects though, you know, well-meaning or certainly maybe should fall under some other aspect of the foreign assistance Approach aren't really about trade capacity building or they're further away and perhaps for this country if we're calling a trade capacity We should focus on something else. So yeah, I agree with Paul And that only has a point of view as well for me think of it as trade facilitation is basically border administration And and the the the ease and simplicity and clarity and transparency of border administration But there are a lot of things that happen at the border because it's convenient for them to happen And those are the elements where trade capacity building makes a difference if you're an agricultural exporter Okay, there are a whole set of compliance requirements USDA for an ag service compliance requirements Which your products much must meet to gain entry into the United States now That's not specifically border administration, but it's a task that for purposes of convenience occurs at the border now Getting farmers to the point of point where they can comply Consistently and seamlessly with those USDA requirements is where trade capacity building makes a difference It's how you essentially in Colt cake and develop the standards and and move Farm exporters to say to to risk-based Management systems and to really deeply understand and internalize in their own farm processes What it takes to comply with our with our standards? Okay, so they're they're really in some ways need to be separate animals I think it's the best way to think about it, but I want you to just we have up until now talked about Primarily how we define These issues and that's that's really important Of course because it can be so broadly defined that it's hard to measure Whether or not you're successful at what you're doing so from our own point of view We need to be a bit disciplined about how we calculate this But I do think we need to recognize that what's really important in this exercise in in the context of Any trade agreement and this was certainly true of CAFTA is that you have to You have to allow the countries to establish their priorities for trade capacity building building and Our response to that list Both brings them into the process because they've had to develop their priorities and I think we found in CAFTA that There's certainly no they certainly have in almost all instances The ability to define what they would like to see changed in their own economies to to help improve their trade agreements They often don't quite know how to execute And they want to look to US business particularly and how to do best as to execute But I do think it's extremely important on the trade capacity building particularly in the context of the negotiation to Early in the process as you say have them start developing their priority list So they have a stake in the outcome Is there a question up here in front then we'll go a little further back Thank you. I'm Jim suits. I work for the very small trade capacity building unit in the US Department of Agriculture I noticed one of the central recommendations of the report was the creation of an interagency task force and My experience has been that those task forces tend to be impotent at best So I wanted to ask you mentioned also the provision of funds Authority to that task force. My question is has that been done before to your knowledge and has it worked? the one instances of Appropriated funding occurred in 2003-2004 where there was specific and it was action taken by at that time congressman Colby House House member who was an appropriator and Senator Senator from New Mexico Is that ring a bell in any case there was a house Senate agreement on on Appropriation appropriated funds allocated for trade capacity building and and operating the bureaucracy better What I think happened is we didn't continue that so there was there was an episodic experience with it in my recollection what we haven't done is done it consistently and I'm Empathetic to your comments on interagency groups. It's it's like the solution the generic solution to every problem in Washington Is create an interagency group? but at the same time the policy coordination issues are fairly important in Getting getting this this effort on trade capacity building to be effective and we didn't know any other way to bridge The gap between this as Andrea put it and as the report puts it a very centralized Capital-based trade policy mechanism and very decentralized, you know Localities-based aid organization, so it's the best we could come up with so if I could just add to that My own personal view is it's not so important what the structure is whether it's a formalized task force or I think that particularly in CAFTA that experience was whether or not you had strong interagency commitment to this at the highest levels and and The the thing that you ran into the most difficulty on was flexibility in the budgets Trying to persuade it as Scott said to have that policy commitment to Respond to it in the context of a trade agreement to trade capacity building and then once the agreement is in place Whether that commitment can sustain itself within individual agencies Whatever budget a task force would get would never you know be The response that would be needed what you need to have within agencies is the flexibility to Manage the budget so that trade capacity building can be responded to difficulty we had with the ID during the CAFTA Trade capacity building was that they had already programmed all their money You know and even small amounts of money a bill a million here a million there pretty soon as Senator Dirkson said you're talking about real money, but you couldn't Trade capacity building often doesn't take a lot of money. It's it's you know you're looking at systems or You know you're not You're not changing the agriculture, you know Economy in any one country through trade capacity building necessarily so trying to persuade through leadership at the interagency level that that Agencies need to retain flexibility in their budgets so they can actually respond Microphone that they can respond to these things is is very important. Can I very briefly? I'm gonna add to that Persuasion is tough. I mean, you know That is how we did it during CAFTA. I mean, we know you convened and Dan Rendy likes to joke that we beat a idea for their lunch money at that time. Maybe we did I Come for I you know my background is is I came up through the trade ranks and I learned the disciplines of how you develop trade policy through the trade promotion subcommittee process and there is a process for it You have subcommittees Decisions get made in a in a formal way in an understood way in a regular way And I don't see any reason why we can't bring that kind of discipline to the trade capacity building process I think we probably need it. I'm not saying US tier should run it But you know those kinds of mechanisms are Existing in the government and if we apply that kind of discipline and formality to it I think it would really help Sure, I think you're one of the ways an interagency Process will function if Congress is watching it and and that's sort of you know The interagency process and trade functions for many reasons But one of the reasons is is Congress is very engaged with what's going on in the negotiations On very specific issues. So there's that constant kind of Supervisory role. I think the private sector who's very engaged on with ways of means and finance on trade Is beginning to think about how do we engage in the appropriations process in the foreign assistance process because as you said There's they have real interests in fixing the the agriculture standards issues and fits in fixing these customs issues So I think it's very encouraging that Congress from Bustani and Congress from Polis came together on this There's action. I know on the Senate side also thinking about how do we approach trade capacity And work with the trade committees and the in the foreign relations, but I think your your skepticism or your experience I think is accurate, but in the areas where it has functioned It's because when those groups are held accountable when strategies are developed and actually reviewed And and it affects appropriations Then you have a good mix where you can end up with a functioning more sort of disciplined Interagency process Okay, I think I've seen four hands. So let's try to go in series here. There are two people on this side They're they're actually now three five. We'll do it. We can't let's take let's take start back here at the back Right behind you Caitlin Well, thank you right next. Thank you. My name is John Lambo with apt associates We're a major US government contractor involved in trade all over the world, but especially in Africa Over 10 years, we've had an involvement with the trade hubs in Africa Where the major contractor right now for the West Africa trade oven We're also a contractor earlier 10 years ago in the Southern Africa trade up So we've had sort of a mix of experience. There are four kind of frontline issues I'd like to raise with the the panel and see what your comments are in the Startup of the new round of trade hubs There's an issue arose of whether the trade hubs could or should be connected again to investment So some of them have actually changed the name to trade and investment hubs ours hasn't yet in West Africa But it's an issue that's being discussed. So the first question is Do you think that you can do trade capacity building that's divorced from investment promotion capacity building? Second one is there are specific activities that we run into in the case of West Africa Where the biggest single hit on trade expansion in products that have not been successful? Particularly under a go out of Africa is actually shea which employs 10 million women as gatherers in many many countries of West Africa The biggest single hit in that industry would be to have the FDA change It's interpretation of whether a shea derivative could be used as a cocoa butter equivalent Which is what in fact is the case in in Europe So the biggest single action that could be taken to help shea and by extension a based exports out of West Africa Would be a change in FDA interpretation of regulations in the United States So do you see involvement by us agencies whose present interpretations or where our own regulations actually impede Trade building as part of trade capacity building Okay, those are to this this other those examples. Thank you Right behind you. There's a question for a while. Thank you. We'll get to that. Good morning I'm Barbara Simmons with Tubman University in Liberia And I'd like to hear from the panel in regard to the reauthorization of the African Growth Opportunity Act And what you see as the chances of the reauthorization as well as what is the future of trade with Africa with or without a goa? Okay, thank you. Let's take one question on this side. I'll come back. So yes, sir Good morning. My name is Luke Nye and with USAID the Office of Trade and Regulatory Reform I noticed that each of the panelists have a background in public sector as well as private sector currently and so I'm curious You know, you guys mentioned the need for partnerships in terms of trade capacity building the US government can't do it alone We can't do it with other public donors even the multilateral donors So we need to partner with a private sector. How I'm just curious to get your thoughts about what's the best pitch How should the US government or other donors writ large approach the private sector because they do have a vested interest as you mentioned in trade capacity building And I'm thinking specifically of the trade facilitation agreement where there's obviously a very very big benefit for the implementation of that agreement But still you have to get people to pony up money. And so how do you get them to see that? It's worth their money To participate in this. Thank you. Great Well, we'll stop there and we'll hope to get back to some of the rest of you Everybody want to take a shot. We have trade investment hubs in Africa regulatory cooperation issues Agoa and the partnerships I like that question, I don't know a lot about the shape out specifically, but I think what your question really speaks to is the development community bringing to the trade community a set of obstacles problems concerns issues opportunities for the women working in that industry that can be solved through trade solutions, right? And it It doesn't necessarily require maybe fixes through ago I don't know. Maybe there are things that we can do on the regulatory side to pave the way and marry that up with improvements to a goa But I think the larger point is we do need to be hearing the trade community needs to hear things like that Because we're really good at coming up with How you brainstorm the solutions to those things, right? We get really driving to the technical and say, oh, well, okay, maybe it's Europe has already approved it Maybe there's a way we can expedite our own approval process based on recognizing the way that Europe approved it I mean, you know, we're really good at kind of brainstorming those things But I'm not sure we would have thought of looking at the question of Jay butter imports Were the development community not to have raised that and I do think a goa Renewal is a good time an opportune time coming up to do exactly as you suggest I can't speak to timing for ago. I I'm not a I'm more of an executive type branch type person So I couldn't tell you about but about those processes, but all you probably Well, I think it was all the ago a question I think ago it we're in the midst of a very active trade legislative period And I think a goa is is unique in the sense of its strong bipartisan support And bicameral support I think how and when a goa renewal happens is Will be caught up in this larger trade legislative process. So I think It it's though. It's somewhat unique. It's part of that process And so that that it's too early to predict exactly, you know, we've heard from Congressman Bustani You know a TPA bill could be coming soon That's sort of the first step and then how it proceeds from there I think it is there are open questions on the duration. You know, how long is it going to be? There's certainly the my understanding of the staffs in the House in the Senate have been looking at improvements in a variety of ways To it to to the to the program having been at USTR and worked on a goa and been at finance and done the oversight of it I think there's some questions about How do you really? Maximize utilization of a goa. It's an interesting I think it's fascinating that the private sector would like to see increased utilization the countries would like to see increased utilization The US government would like to see increased utilization. So you have a shared goal there now What is what are the constraints? A lot of them are probably capacity constraints and supply side constraints So how do you work whether it's through regional? Communities bilaterally, how do you work with the countries to sort of assess where where do those? Supply chain bottlenecks are and how do we how do we address them? And I think that the question is out there still with some of the economies that are stronger growing more quickly or larger How do I mean from its inception in 2000 ago as concept was to transition to? Permanent bilateral and investment relationships between the United States and Sub-Saharan Africa. So I think that goal still holds We haven't made that much progress yet So thinking I think that is part of this discussion is how can we help? Get further along to that shared goal. So I hope that helps I didn't realize it's it's not I couldn't tell you in three weeks. It's gonna happen or four months But I think it's it's great asset is that it has very strong bipartisan support if I could let me connect the notion of Agoa renewal to the question about import about trade hubs or trading investment hubs As Paul pointed out ago is nearly old enough to get a driver's license. Okay? Turn 16 next year. All right, so If you think about what's changed in Africa since 2000 the biggest change is the consumer market in Africa itself and The opportunity for products made in Africa for for sale in Africa Okay, and this is the part of the economy that desperately needs to be built It's it's much smaller part of the total economy that internal Consumer market is smaller in Africa given its population than any other region in the world And most of that is because the lack of connections intra Africa trade Connections and so to the extent that the trade investment hubs can address that problem for me That's the biggest growth opportunity there We'll talk about a go-up because it goes a trade preference program in terms of exports to the United States but the core market is is for African economies to engage each other on Consumer products essentially made in Africa for Africa and that that for me is the puzzle that I'd like to see solve Then it means going to trade in investment hubs. I think that's great If anybody else I do Scott. I completely agree with you It's a point I wanted to make and I I agree that I think the way the US should be engaging Africa now is with that in mind because if you look at agriculture alone ago is not going to do it By 2030 the food market in Africa is projected to be a trillion dollar market Right, so what can we do from the US perspective to engage Africa to improve regional economic integration? So that it is a large market for US companies and for African country come company There was the question on on how to you know how to engage the private sector and I think The idea if you develop sort of a strategic level Interagency process definition priority setting a strategy you definitely need to work with the private sector at that level, you know to sort of look at as you're Looking along the continuum of Projects programs resources that are available for trade capacity getting their insight from their operations regionally multinational Multinationally, you know in various different countries at the strategic level it is going to be critical because what I learned and Scott You were too much longer than I was at FedEx, but each of these companies they have three year five year ten year plans They're projecting growth demand shifting consumer trends market development. They're very sophisticated And you and if you can get cross-sectoral input, you know They have a pretty good sense of where they think things are going and you need to incorporate that in your sort of strategy level of trade Capacity building because that's how you maximize your benefits and as you just mentioned in Africa Maybe look the focus has to be on developing, you know inter-regional Investment and supply chains, you know, and you'll hear that at a strategic level from a corporate perspective But I do think it's equally if not more important at the country level, you know To bring in not just large companies, but the local come, you know companies these the subsidiaries or the agents of larger U.S. Companies because they have incredibly diverse contracting relationships Those are the folks they really in country. As I said, it could tell you very quickly Here's the problem, right? We can't get out of the port because of this or our ag ministry, you know Has no capacity, you know, so I think it's a it's from both levels and I think how do you measure? Success is as you're developing strategy you document. I mean if I were on on the hill again That's what I'd want to know. I'd want to know who did you talk to and what did they recommend and what did you do? It's similar at the country level. I think documenting. Here's what the private sector's recommendations were And then you measure against it. Yes, one of the recommendations in the report We noted that the fact we have these wonderful industry trade advisory groups There's a advisory committee structure and it's all based in Washington and and and what we envisioned is each ambassador, right? Has his or her own ITAC, you know, his or her own trade advisory committee where they're talking to people who are actually Engaged in commerce in the market who frankly know a lot that never gets never makes its way back to Washington And because it probably doesn't need to but it would be really relevant in the country to make it a difference in Trade performance, so we just echo that I mean in the roles that we sat in and you know We we understood the policy priorities for our companies, but at a country level We didn't know I mean, you know, we had to go work it ourselves through the regional through the country manager so Recognizing that that structure exists within the private sector and then looking at it at the strategic and the country level And I think it really is important to document what they're saying. Obviously the private sector is not the only voice There's other stakeholders development community other operators, you know that that certainly should weigh in on that priority prioritization but my sense from from my time the private sector is that is that they're There's a very deep understanding of the trade policy process and how you engage There is a frustration Much of which the CSIS and others have looked at in the past There's a frustration from the private sector of an inability to access in a consistent or a strategic way us for an assistance capabilities Where there is a vested interest, so I think there's this will take time It's not you just turn it on and it'll all work, but I think thinking of it those two levels probably would be the most effective If I could just one additional comment to that, I think we need to be careful not to limit ourselves to formal partnerships There are very few companies that are willing to go through the pain and length of the process to get to the end where you have an MOU with a large agency, but it's just it doesn't move fast enough. It's not worth it However, I'll go back to this example. I gave of APEC where USDA Created opportunities. They just they created it. They use the government-to-government relationship through APEC to create a forum where Companies could come in and provide their insights provide some training in a very technical area like food safety And I guarantee you when you create opportunities like that You have a line out the door of companies who are willing to offer up people with that expertise To provide that kind of capacity building Because it helps their business in a not in a very specific way in a general way, but it really helps Create an environment of compliance and elevated Institutional capacity in the in the markets in which they're trying to operate, but that wasn't a formal You know lengthy process to create that opportunity So I think if we can be creative and do what much more of that you'd have a lot more companies Willing to engage just that one other thought is it has to generate results If the private sector engages at the strategic or the country level and provides some input and some resources and nothing happens Or it goes off in a different direction. They won't keep coming back You know what you need is to start build that positive feedback feedback loop which probably starts informally, right? But as they see that oh that they're actually incorporating Some of our observations or our experience You know that they've been become vested in the success of those of that process And then hopefully as I mentioned on the hillside eventually that they're actually talking Congressionally when they're meeting with their delegation saying us ID is doing great program or USTA is doing this program or Customs is helping you know that that starts to build a positive feedback loop on that side, too So this is going to take time But the the shared interests are there So it's just a matter of how do you operation and the private sector can really be the delivery system for trading capacity building I mean that is what the companies want I mean that's what the countries want as they identify their priorities more often than not You alluded to that as they were taking advantage of some of those things in Asia It's basically if you're creating a response to a regional need in Africa to to Create a better aviation system for example USTA did this as well I mean it was the US expertise that was delivering that Trade facilitation trade capacity building effort to these countries at their request and it gets to measuring success You know that if the private sector sees that the results and improving on things like trade facilitation I mean you can measure it like how long are the holds? How much stuff is being held? I mean you can figure out what that is and then you put in place a program and you say implement the TFA Where did it get better? And the companies can tell you and they will and if they can tell so you need them also in your monitoring side to say Okay, we put this in place. We've done this technical capacity building. We've built this technology solution How's it working? How are we you know do we need to tinker it? Do we do improves it is building the relationship? But that has to be sustained because their operations are sustained right now They're still dealing with it and companies themselves have identified their own. I mean most companies have an in-country You know they're helping the country Good corporate strategy they're on a And they really have long ago moved from let's put our name on a school You know let's build a school there. They're looking more at sustainable trade capacity type of Places they put their own money and actually the government is following that model in this kind of discussion Okay, we're running out of time but we do want to have one more question gentlemen of the back here has been very patient We'll take this as a final question Yes, thank you very much. I'm one whole came visiting scholar at Johns Hopkins size For the past several years. I have been involved in Korea's Export promotion capacity building assistance towards several Latin American countries. I know this morning We are talking about bilateral trade capacity building Assistance from us toward developing countries, but as far as we know International Cooperation has not only bilateral format, but also three-letter format involving a third country third party as Another donor right so I'd like to know we can my question goes any panelist my question is What you think about the three-letter collaboration? Possibility or if you have ever undertaken initiatives in this sense and what you think about the evaluation. Thank you Well, I think we're about to particularly with the implementation implementation of trade the trade facilitation agreement and I was struck as I reread the report Again by this need to have the infrastructure within the US government in part a large part Maybe to manage our own process our own process of delivering us trade capacity building assistance, but also to work with donors from other governments of the other So the other primary governments and also the multilateral agencies there really is an acute need to Strengthen that dialogue So that we're we're being really synergistic about the way we deliver trade capacity building assistance And I'm not sure that today within the US government. There is You know a clear Simple way of addressing that of doing that. I think that's right look We we have a we run consistent budget deficits code So it's not like we have a lot of money to throw away at this kind of stuff and we could use the help Okay, but the second point I make is we're about to learn about this in the trans-pacific partnerships Where we have a couple of partner TPV partner economies, Vietnam Malaysia as example, which would would be you know sort of ideal recipients of trade capacity building assistance and we have Other economies who are partners Japan, Australia, New Zealand who are long part of the official aid, you know Budget countries and have long been involved in foreign assistance of various sorts And so there's for me. There's a really it's a really creative opportunity. Paul. Did you ever yeah? I'm the only thing I would add is that I think absolutely right that the trade facilitation agreement is going to be a sort of a test run on This and I'm sure they'll be bumps along the road and in terms of each of these entities are sort of different Rules or procedures by which they do their donor activity I think the overarching trend that I mentioned in the beginning that overall Development assistance as a share of the economies in these countries is less and less So the importance of the various donors coordinating to maximize impact. I think that premium just becomes more important and I think that part of the One of the other corollary benefits of better streamlined or coordinating the US development assistance and trade capacity assistance Process is hopefully and working with the private sector as those best practices are learned those should be shared Lessons, you know, and then and then you can look at trilateral multilateral plural lateral You see there's a lot of finance already in development finance You'll see multiple actors come together and in terms of and take on different roles in terms of how to finance a project But I think when it's tackling customs modernization or it's tackling agriculture standards or whatever it may be There's there are learnings to be done and then shared and then hopefully Having a more disciplined and a senior level engagement both congressional and executive They can keep pressure on multilateral institutions and and then positive pressure but but to focus on on prioritization on results Just perhaps complicate your question a little bit Because we have talked about China at all I do think that the donor community has changed quite a bit and it it and and some of the ways that it has changed is is Influence an effort at influencing So it becomes all I mean It becomes all the more important I think for the US to partner with like-minded countries and provide trade capacity building and in a sense that promotes open and open trade and highly interactive trade because certainly The don't some large donors China being one, but Brazil and others Have designs I think beyond just improving the trade environment. They're looking at Increasing their influence over certain countries in a political sense and in an economic sense Which is was not all bad But it is something that the US needs to keep its eye on the ball on so to speak and try to make sure We talked about this a lot at the OECD, you know is it's a it's a good thing that the donor community has Expanded beyond the US in traditional Europe and traditional donors But we do have to be cognizant that not all of those donors really want an open market And so that's where our multilateral mind needs to continue to be at the forefront Well, thank you and thanks all of you for attending today. We appreciate your interest in the topic Please join me in thanking our panelists