 Hi welcome to under the dome return to town meeting TV as part of our ongoing Legislative coverage will be checking in with legislators from around our coverage area in the next several months Mondays at 12 p.m. It's a live call-in show. So feel free to call in at 802-862-3966 Today we are joined by Chittenden County Senators Thomas Chittenden and Keshia Rom-Hinsdale You want to introduce yourselves real quick and we can go just go down the line. We'll just start with you Tom Great. So I'm Thomas Chittenden. I'm serving in my first term in the Vermont State Senate I'm going to I'm currently serving on the Senate Education Committee as well as Senate transportation Happy to speak to some of the things that we're doing there I also serve on the Vermont State Infrastructure Bank the and also on the Joint Information Technology Oversight Committee for the Legislature Thank you so much for having us. I'm Senator Keshia Rom-Hinsdale This is my 10th year in the legislature only my second year in the state Senate proud to be the first woman of color In the state Senate So this will be my fourth and fifth committees that I've served on overall in my decade in the legislature I serve on Senate economic development housing and general affairs and Senate government operations both of those span a lot of Subjects so happy to be of as much help as I can to have Vermonters listening in great great And we can just start diving in right now on committees. You're both on lots of different panels and committees So sure lot to talk about Thomas anything in your eye in your committees any items you've been looking at recently that you'd like to go into great So I'll say a few things, but just give me an indicator if I'm talking too long So on Senate education, which we're still meeting Senate transportation has wound down a little bit over the last week after We passed the transportation bill out of committee, but on Senate education I'll be reporting a bill that Senator Keshia Rom-Hinsdale had a large part of so h5 17 in there are two bills that you led led were the lead sponsor on having to do with military families and making Vermont more Having some accommodations to allow for military families to more ease into and transition into the great state of Vermont It also has to do with eligibility benefits for a Vermont National Guard And it also is taking on the topic related to our adjunct general and the eligibility criteria for that So I'll be reporting that on the floor on Tuesday. So that's that's on my mind So I don't make any any foolish comments in front of my colleagues We also are spending a lot of time on a topic that is honestly the most dense a bill that I have yet to wrestle with This is h7 27 a very important bill having to do with how forced union districts from Act 46 as well as regular union districts can if they Follow what the process is for them to dissolve a relationship with a school district or school union So I have been struggling a lot with this taking a lot of testimony following a lot of emails And we will be can diving into it more this week before we pass it on I hope you don't ask me any questions about it because I'm not sure how technical I will be but know that I am listening from lots Of community members trying to understand what's most important to them as a new senator a new legislator without the 10 years of experience I just want to say how remarkable legislative council is I make the silliest comments and they translated into very useful and Articulated language that can strive for what we want to have represented in the in the bills that are before us Go ahead. Well two things one You know just to put a fine point on that many people listening at home might not realize that we don't write our own bills We have a team of attorneys who are incredibly dedicated and knowledgeable and have to go very deeply into certain topics Where we dare not venture and then you know come back out with legislation We can read and understand and keep iterating around so it's a great point that senator chitin makes senator chitin I know sometimes we pass something and think okay on to the next thing But you might want to speak to the transportation bill a little bit It's so important to remind and be the moderator, but the bus service You know new investments in in pedestrian safety and bike ability happy to and we just reported that out on the floor on Friday, so it was high on my mind So there were some great things in this very comprehensive bill Called the transportation bill that came over from the house and in there exactly as Senator rom hence they'll just spoke to is there's gonna be 1.2 million dollars to continue fair free service throughout chitin County, so that's a very exciting thing it also will allow for Microtransit grants, so we in the Senate increase the microtransit grants to go up to I think 1.2 million If I'm recalling correctly and those are really useful grants to look at how we move people around and to foster creativity I used to serve on the GMT transit board and one thing that I was really excited to see is that on demand transit service in the Mopulier area seems to be working and it seems more dynamic with less fixed route heavy expensive buses just constant If you live in chitin County, you might have seen a bus going down the road with nobody in it And I usually hear emails or get contact get people reach out to me saying why are we paying for empty buses to go around town? So we need to look at more dynamic flexible public transit solutions to get people out of their single occupancy vehicles and to make living without a car Much more amenable and flexible Microtransit grants are supporting creative new approaches to that just doing just that and what's been successful in Mopulier can hopefully flourish I know the city of Winooski is looking to be the next pilot program for microtransit Which would be an uberized type if I can use that word on the public access show a more flexible way to find public Transmit opportunities for people to get to where they need to be on demand requests. I could also talk about the PGE Aggregates, so I'm really excited that in the transportation bill We are creating a local market for crushed glass right now when we recycle our glass it it gets put in trucks and Ship down the interstate to Massachusetts burning fossil fuels and those are heavy loads wearing our roads down Or it's put on a train going down to South Carolina with these standard changes through the transportation act both the state V-trans which is the Owner regulator of most of our roads can now use that aggregate for the underlayment of our roads So that will actually keep it here in the state burn less fossil fuels moving heavy items around Also in there is an important topic to me So with my experience on municipal level with the Burlington International Airport So I serve on the South Burlington City Council I'm on in my eighth year and one thing that I've studied over the years is how there are different ways to Have decisions being made over public transport public infrastructure like airports And so I'm excited that the language is in the transportation bill going over to the house from the Senate Which is just asking to look at it no predefined opinions No set opinion on what it should look like but instead just asking really smart people to study and evaluate how the airspace over Chittenden County should be overseen and how we are compared to other areas I think I've talked too much. Would you like to expand on anything else? Well, I mean I was only gonna add when you mentioned, you know this new opportunity with keeping crushed glass in the state We have a new emerging company called Glavall in Essex Junction That is leading in terms of figuring out how to make crushed glass most useful for the agency of transportation So we have you know a local business ready to take on that kind of work when we pass this legislation And that's what we like to do is make things get out of the way sometimes for innovation to happen Well great. Thank you. That's a lot of a lot of topics to cover Senator romp Hinton's Dale. Do you want to talk about some of your committee work? Yeah So so I'll start in chronological order. I spend my mornings in economic development Housing, you know, it there's big big topics in that committee particularly coming out of This pandemic and knowing that we got into this pandemic with a housing crisis and with a lot of economic need that was existing We have moved about three and a half billion dollars of economic recovery through our committee through the state That includes supporting small businesses It includes emergency funds for workers It includes the housing dollars that are going to tenants home owners Landlords trying to figure out the right mix of getting support for people so they can stay in their homes I was the lead sponsor of S 226 which is still making its way through and has been the major landmark housing bill of the session What's some of the important things to me in that bill include first-generation home buyer grants? It's one thing to help people stay in their housing situation It's another to hopefully emerge with new opportunities for homeownership for Vermonters who haven't had generational wealth And so very excited about that piece, but there's a lot in there that should get more housing built And more housing available restore historic buildings Make commercial buildings into residential buildings. We just need the full mix of options in the state Especially as we have conversations around ending homelessness as well With our economic development we passed h 159. I think it's an H bill I I have managed to be in this work for ten years getting confused with the numbers and the bills But focusing more on the topics, but that bill was a larger economic development bill as opposed to h 703 which we still have in committee. That's work for specific with our economic development bill one thing of note is that we We passed an accelerated minimum wage increase to $15 an hour by 2024 And as the chair of our committee remarked senator Michael Sorok in who's also a Chittenden County State senator You know when he spoke to the bill on the floor He said I have done a lot of minimum wage bills in my life And this one hung out there and acceleration to $15 for weeks on our wall. We discussed it We usually and that in moments like that have a lot of feedback and some pushback And we did not hear a single word of concern about accelerating that minimum wage increase I think people deeply understand that you know with the rising Inflation and just with you know the need for workers who are willing to brave, you know continuing unsafe conditions and just Balancing childcare and other You know factors that keep them from being able to access the workforce that $15 an hour is the absolute bare minimum That we should be paying Vermonters. So we're very excited to be accelerating the minimum wage 703 is a really large workforce development bill and we recognize that we have a worker shortage in almost every field imaginable And and the question is what is our role as government as we look at nurses and medical professionals our Emergency management services and ambulance services teachers and shortages in our education system So we're looking at those, you know critical systems that help Ensure that the rest of the state can function and trying to figure out how to get more workers into the pipeline Wow All into days work and that was my first committee, but I'll stop there before I get to government Let's Well, let's let's pivot for a second then maybe come back to some of the committee stuff and let's talk about redistricting So the Senate just recently approved some redistricting maps And I think Chittenden County is not going to be just one district for senators anymore. It's gonna be split up So if you guys want to Go into that a little bit Sure, I'll I'll start, you know a senator Chittenden jumped right into the process and you know understood it quickly And and was a great advocate for you know communities that sometimes get left behind in this process It is my second redistricting So I think I was trying to remind him it can feel very emotional And then there are a small number of people for whom it deeply matters who are generally involved in politics and and local Governments and for everyone else, you know, they just wake up on election day or get their early ballot and say Who am I voting for what are my choices? So it's it's a it's something that we can we can feel really deeply And certainly it does matter You know redistricting is a critical issue when we look at other states and how districts get carved up that you know affect racial dynamics affect who we send to Congress There we don't face the dynamic of having more than one congressional seat so that doesn't come into play for us and I think this year again as we did ten years ago We do this every ten years with the census. We've come up with something. That's very fair and and Truly non-partisan and I think that's the most critical right now. We know there is a northern District that will probably have two Republicans running against each other when we collapse sometimes rural districts where they've lost population and add districts where we've gained Population we do have you know a new South Burlington seat for example in the house on the Senate side We took a historic vote Several years ago to put in motion a breaking up of our huge County district Huge even by national standards We were a very outsized at large Senate seat district with six people Serving the county because of our population size here. We are a third of the Democratic primary vote here in Chittenden County So, you know whereas we we often just keep two county boundaries for the most part And that means we have one to three senators in other counties. We've had six in Chittenden County It's daunting to be in a crush of 20 candidates running for six seats and so we but we did we did want to recognize that The house can be more of a provincial place and the Senate as has been said, you know For centuries about the US Senate is where the T goes to cool It's where you have to have a lot of aggregate interests in mind and take a broader view And I think we accomplished that with breaking up the Chittenden County Senate district Generally into a northern district and a southern district We do also have a new district given the population shift that straddles a bit of Chittenden County and a bit of Franklin County But we so we now have you know Essentially seven seats and then if you count Colchester and Grand Isle We have eight senators who have sent piece of looking at Chittenden County I think the biggest pushback we got or the biggest questions we received were around the split between Essex and Essex Junction and the split between northern Burlington and southern Burlington now what I can't You know, we also have the new city of Essex Junction, which I reported that charter change So it now is two separate Municipalities the Burlington piece we did have a long conversation with Southend residents who are concerned that now they have They share a district with Richmond. They have really far-flung neighbors they did before right because we had six senators before and I can tell you that when we talk about Burlington High School or other investments that Burlington needs To me it's as someone who's represented Burlington for eight years and now represents the larger County It's really great to have six senators instead of two. There was the question of should we have just two Burlington senators I can tell you having served Burlington for so long that those senators would likely be marginalized and Not listen to as much as having a larger group of people who have to pay attention to Burlington when I was in the house I would if we needed something for Burlington's bike path I would go find the Wenduski legislator because and I'd say they want it to Because often, you know Burlington is seen as close to the rest of the state And so while that's hard for us to swallow here in this local community It is a really big picture Understanding that you know Burlington needs to be sort of represented by a lot of different interests that are spread out across the county Senator Chittenden anything that a lot a few things though. That was very eloquent I just want to recognize the process which you spoke to at the beginning and also recognize that senator Chris Pearson Who represents Chittenden County took the the lion's share of the effort for this the committee that was formed had two Republicans two Democrats and two that affiliate with a progressive party as well as the chair And it's very important that everybody know that it was unanimous the final map and then on the Senate It was also unanimous. I think that speaks volumes for both the process that we do here in Vermont And how we came to come up with a map that people across the political spectrum see as the fairest solution I also just want to recognize that I remember talking to senator Baruch about the maps and he says to me Tom That way lies madness and I agree as I was following the process and seeing how they'd move a line in this direction in that Direction how it have ripple effects throughout the rest of the state There was no easy map and one other thing that you spoke to which I think is just worth Emphasizing that there were some early maps that showed Burlington as a clean two-seat district that actually made sense to me originally But then I was really persuaded by both senator Rom Hinsdale senator Baruch and others that the Senate is where you want a more A wider view a multi-municipal view Beyond just one specific municipality so that you don't have a provincial take on issues and now with this configuration That does in fact have most of the towns north of the Winooski River Including the bulk of Burlington as one three-member central district with Essex Junction And then the southern part with a part a 25 percent of Burlington That does a great job of keeping Burlington's voice in the legislature Burlington is the largest city It's the Queen City and this is a great configuration that came about that I think is going to keep that Dominant voice in all six senators that still have a as you said a piece of Burlington in there So I just want to recognize that the process is important I'd be happy to go through how the districts are constructed for your audience Would you like me to list the towns or direct into the web? I think maybe we can go to the map on that but I am curious how that's going to affect your seats in this coming election Which new districts are you guys going to be? So I will be in the Chittenden Southeast district which has the south end of Burlington district 6-5 It'll become district 13 Chittenden 13 With a couple of tweaks and then it also has South Burlington, Shelburne, Charlotte, St. George, Hinesburg, Williston, Bolton, Richmond, Underhill and Jericho a total of 11 communities. I really hope I didn't miss a town No, good job Memorize it. You said St. George in there. Oh good. Good job So I'll be in that district and I am running for reelection, but I will say on that point When I first got into the Senate I went during the pandemic I reached out to all the senators that I highly respect that have been in there for ages and I sat down with Senator Sears and down in Bennington and he said Tom when I first got elected he was the chair or the alderman of Bennington and he said when I was elected to the state Senate I stepped down immediately I thought about stepping off of my other role some of you may know about the South Burlington City Council But I didn't I made a commitment to fill out the term which ends this coming March And so as the second public place I'll announce too is I'm not going to run for reelection of the South Burlington City Council So that this summer as I as I try to earn the votes of people to continue in this role and hopefully become a better senator Someday to the status of senator Ron Hinsdale I will be focusing more of my attention in the coming years So that I will be also spreading myself too thin on the council in South Burlington Yeah, we often say congratulations this but you know you have served well on that city council and I think that makes a lot of sense You know I often say it not that that senator Chittenden spoke out of turn But they're you know, they're not our seats They are seats we hold as long as we are privileged to have the support of the voters And I am not seeking reelection as many know I am running for Congress So that in a way helps with the Incumbency factor in the southern part of the county only because there are going to be three seats And there are three people who currently have not announced intentions to resign or to not seek reelection So, you know that still leaves room for others to run it is they are you know This is a new configuration and people may see opportunity in in that central or northern three-seat district You know there are two incumbents and three seats So once there's one open seat it usually creates a big crush of people interested in In getting engaged and to my knowledge the new Chittenden seat That's Essex and Franklin County does not have Anyone currently in the Senate sitting in that area. So it is a completely new Senate seat All right, we are running we're running slightly that we got about 10 minutes left So we'll go back to some of the committee stuff now Anything that you think are particularly important to communities in Chittenden County Maybe this is a little beyond committee work as well But just things that you think are really important to your constituents Let's we can start with senator umhamsdale. Well, I I'm eager to speak only because Being on senate government operations We do all of the local municipal charter changes in our committee and it is customary That the senator from that county will often report those charter changes and that's a big That's a big job when you're in Chittenden County. We've had some pretty significant charter changes come our way And one being the creation of the first new city in Vermont in 101 years in the city of Essex Junction You know that was a major decision after many votes in Essex town and Essex Junction to try and figure it out share governance or splitting up in in amicable ways and this is the most amicable amicable solution that was found But it allowed for a really historic moment for a new city to be born And I think that's just a fascinating thing. It was a privilege to report that And then Burlington has given us five charter changes to consider And because they're all such varied topics We have taken each of them separately This session, we're considering really weighty issues in those charter changes That may have implications for the rest of the state if others see Burlington experiment with some of these and want to do something similar And those three are thermal energy regulation So looking at how Especially with landlords and large complexes The city is able to weigh in more and get more engaged in high High energy use buildings make them more efficient and really reduce our greenhouse gas emissions home heating Along with transportation are two biggest sources of greenhouse gas emissions So it's a really interesting step for municipality to take and I think it will be trailblazing Two is just cause eviction You know while it only applies to Burlington We saw in winooski that we almost lost housing for 200 people for 25 families Who were paying their rent on time who through no fault of their own we're going to lose their housing Grateful to the boves and the larger community for coming to an agreement where those families did not be Need to be displaced, but all of us in the legislature. We're speaking to Not knowing where to put 200 more people in the county. We have the lowest vacancy in in 20 years right now in the county And so, you know, I think I was proud to report just cause eviction on the floor It's an issue where I think we should really be looking at that balance always between tenant rights and you know property ownership And ensuring that people who are following the law and paying their rent on time have that ability to stay in what has become their home We don't know with any of these we don't know what the governor will necessarily do with our charter changes He has not made it clear if he will veto them or not the last one that we just voted out is rank choice voting for Burlington And that's for city council seats. We've experimented with it with mayor The city council chose not to forward that to the public around the mayorship But we are now looking at approving rank choice voting for city council elections in Burlington With all of these the governor could weigh in and veto these bills There are a lot of times when he says he doesn't want cities and towns to have different practices than other places You know with all of these Burlington is a big city and it is a place where You know, you want municipal government to experiment. And so I hope he allows all of these to become law Senator chitman So I would say the charter changes when you asked the frame the question as what's most important to the the area I will say this um For those of you that aren't really familiar with the intermation nations of the legislature You focus a lot on what's in your committee and then when things make it out of committee That's when you have to do a lot of research and you don't have nearly as much time to dive into the topic So I've been receiving some emails about rank choice voting the bill that's coming to the floor this week Very intelligent individuals raising concerns about the technical differences and the statistical considerations between the hair method and the condor set Rank choice voting or irv's and how you're going to classify it So I've been spending a fair amount of time on this and I originally had some concerns But then as I read the bill and saw the good work that that happened both in the house But as well as on the council in burlington and then the clarification that you just offered how it's just for city counselors It may gave me peace But if you were to do it for may or why there are real issues with or concerns with how you do rank choice voting in a way That makes sense to the voters and that's also logistically employable. I'm sure you've worked many election I've worked elections for the last eight years in the city of south burlington And understand the idea of precinct summability and being able to display Initially the results so that people can have an idea as soon as possible what the outcome of the election was And if we don't do rank choice voting in a way that makes it easy for Easier for people to understand the process and also get instant access without having to aggregate to centralize to move Ballots around or to somehow put introduced variability into the process I i'm concerned about how rank choice voting could be rolled out So I really appreciate how the both the house the senate as well as the city council Frame the rank choice voting around city council races that will be for each individual award And that's where I come down to supporting what rank choice voting is coming But I do see in the next few years We need to look at this more closely and find a rank if we're going to bring a statewide Methods that will work for everybody and that we won't have variability because there are some very technical statistical differences between the different approaches to that important topic We've got about three minutes left. So um, let's if you each have the just a quick last thoughts before we go We can start with senator chinden I just want to say that the other way that I focus on topics It is remarkable the breadth of topics that legislators have to vote on and I do my homework as much as possible I'm committing every free moment available To the the matters that come before me I just want all the people to know that it helps me when you reach out So if you call or email me to tell me what's on your mind I respond as to as many of them as I can but know that I read them all So please tell me when something is on your mind or you're concerned about something going through the legislature Because it helps me understand topics from different perspectives And I just don't have the breadth of perspective across the spectrum of issues that come before the legislature So please reach out. I'd love to hear from you So, um, you know, we we did a deep dive into areas where we have some focus and specialty I would say the other three things that we hear from vermonters a lot around our climate change The budget and the pension Agreement that we're trying to come to only because that affects so many vermonters in our civil service and our educators Um, when it comes to climate change, I'm very proud to have led sponsorship of s148 and environmental justice bill for vermont For the first time to make sure we're mapping Environmental benefits and environmental costs around the state and ensuring that we don't have a concentration of energy poverty in new port Or asthma in wetland and we're not getting resources there to ensure greater equity as well as the clean heat standard Is something we're working through that will be a big sea change in how we fund Thermal efficiency and home heating around the state that will have a lot of implications and it will be a longer process That we're starting now On the budget, you know, that is What we hear, of course is You know How with an eight billion dollar budget the biggest budget we've ever passed because of federal support and recovery dollars Are we, you know, can we not find a million dollars for this or that most of what we do is in a much smaller pot of money A lot of that money spoken for in our education fund our transportation budget, you know paying personnel at the state level who have Contracts in place. Um, so we're dealing with a much smaller pot of money And I do think in so many ways we are trying to address the biggest issues of our day mental health Supports for for people who are falling through the cracks Um, you know, just really laser focused on under investments We've made in our workforce in critical areas to vermonters and trying to shore those up And that's the the hunger, you know, just the best we can do to keep people fed and in greater well-being And then the pension debate we believe we've done great work in the house in the senate People should be on the lookout for the governor to weigh in and What he would like is for The greater consideration of a defined contribution over a defined benefit that looks more like a 401k than a traditional public pension And I have deep concerns about that because it does undermine in my mind the solvency moving forward of our critical pension system That people have been relying on So, you know, that's where I come down But those are some really key end game issues to watch as we wrap up our session. Great. Thank you. And then thank you both for joining us Thank you for tuning in under the dome. We'll return next week on monday at 12 p.m With brollington representatives emma mulvaney stanek and carol odi You can watch this and other local political coverage on our website at cctv.org or on our youtube channel Or on our channels at comcast 10 87 brollington telecom 17 and 217. See you next week