 So, I think, speaking of Web 3 ecosystem, venture ecosystem, I know Pearl, you actually invest more broadly in the early stage tech ecosystem, right? And Web 3 is one of your focus areas. Over the past, I think if you look at 18, 12 months, there's been some radical changes that have happened in the funding environment, right? We'd love to hear your thoughts to what changes you are seeing. Just in general, more broadly in the tech ecosystem and more specifically in the Web 3 ecosystem, if there are any sectors that you're looking at that are having more meaningful changes than others, we'd love to hear those thoughts. No, absolutely. I think we all can agree that 2023 and late 2022 is very different from what the markets were before. The environment has completely changed. I mean, in the recent last 48 hours, everything that has unfolded just makes it even more crystal clear that a lot of cheap money being printed and given in the hands of folks has led to crazy valuations been given throughout 2021 and 2022 that is finally starting to correct. So, I think in the broader tech ecosystem, that's what we are seeing. We're seeing that a lot of the founders now are raising at reasonable valuations. There is increased focus on profitability and also increased focus on what's the final sort of product and utility that I'm actually building for, as opposed to coming up with ideas, going out, raising and then figuring out what needs to be built and how to validate the valuation at which they've raised. And I think within Web 3 as well, it's a similar phenomena that we are seeing because Web 3 at the end of the day is no different. It's just a different technology that powers different kinds of use cases. Where people have realized that, you know, internally we had a term for it, just another content platform with token offering. So those have gone away. You don't see another content platform come up because people have realized that, yes, it does power content creators and it gives them immense freedom to really express and get money, get value out of what they're creating. But at the end of the day, there has to be utility to the end users. If there aren't end users who are coming, who are spending time and actually enjoying being on a particular app or a platform, it doesn't make sense. And I think now that that has settled in, a lot of the platforms that are coming are either utility focused where they're trying to figure out how to focus on user centricity and build something that aligns with what users actually want. So start doing user research and then work backwards and see if you can add Web3 or blockchain angle to it. The second is developer tools and infra tools. A lot of middleware coming up because we know that from the past experience that we've had, user onboarding is broken. User targeting is broken. Retargeting doesn't exist completely. Deploying, managing, scaling is very difficult of apps. So solutions that can actually help. So the next set of user applications that get built can be scalable and can be done easily. Great, thank you so much for that. Actually, I'd love to double click a little bit on that topic of middleware. And I know Prabhishan Rajanju, you have a venture studio specifically focused on Web3 and generative AI as well. How do you look at those spaces specifically? How do you leverage your capabilities as a venture studio because you are now building for these Web3 ecosystem players? And there is a lot of movement in from, let's say, the NFTs of the world and community-driven projects to that middleware that infrastructure layer. How are you looking at that and how are you actually assisting these companies to build out for that? So I think we believe middleware actually provides this significant potential to create cross-industry utilities that will integrate with blockchain adoption. So as Paul mentioned, think about it, Web2 or Web3, end of the day what Web3 does is it enables creators to own the stuff they're creating, better ownership, and get rewarded for it. But it doesn't change the fact that whatever you do, you still need to segment the market and for hundreds of years, whatever technology has changed, marketing hasn't changed. It's about user segmentation, user targeting, and figuring out which segment you're targeting and what you're serving. So we believe that there are four areas of middleware that are ripe for innovation, and there may be more, but at least we are focusing on these four areas. One is decentralized identity management. The second is around the node service governance and scalability. The third one is more around the data access privacy and analytics, data access analytics, because even from Web2, whatever you create, you have to have a way of transitioning some of this data and analytics, especially if you have to go to enterprise use cases, even interfacing with Amazon analytics and stuff like that. So you have that access and privacy, obviously, you want to get better, privacy, better access, and better that, and finally is around the Oracle, because obviously, off-chain and off-chain, you need to have that. So those are some areas that if we focus on those areas, we think that we'll be able to solve real-world enterprise problems. They'll generate a lot of revenue, and obviously, currently we're focused on NFT pocketplaces and exchanges, but I think that will provide a huge potential and obviously a lot of stuff to be done in that area. Got it, got it. Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. In fact, Web3, in terms of actually investments, like we're all, in some way, shape or form, we're investing, being entrepreneurs as well, there is a sense that we share a lot from whether it's Bay Area or Singapore-based VCs or so on. There's a sense that there's a lot of deep-tech diligence involved, and deep-tech, I don't mean the deep-tech from technology ventures standpoint, but much deeper technology diligence involved than a typical, let's say, B2B SaaS investment that a venture capitalist might do. So, Watsil, you are, especially suited for that, you are a CTO at 100XVC, right? You're also a broader-based fund, which you invest primarily in Web3 as one of the sub-sectors of the tech ecosystem. I'd love to hear from you. How is the process for investment into a Web3 company different than, let's say, a more traditional tech company, which might be building still in the tech ecosystem, but not Web3 blockchain? And how deep do you get in the blockchain infrastructure or the technologies that are needed to be reviewed before the investments? Hello, yeah. Thanks so much. Here we're good to be here. So, as you mentioned, right? Investing in this space is equivalent to investing in, like, deep-tech startups. See, we all know the, you know, fat protocol thesis from years ago, right? In the blockchain space, value accrual happens at the protocol layer, right? And so, anytime you're investing or evaluating a Web3 startup, right? You're basically saying, okay, there is no real mode in the client or the interface or anything. It's about, have they really built something unique in the protocol itself? Now, if I had to build a DEX, I can easily say, okay, I'll just fork Uniswap today, add a couple bells and whistles and say it's a new DEX, but that doesn't really make it something worthwhile, right? Now, we have to really deep dive into the product and see, okay, are they solving some problems that Uniswap has, right? Is their yield curve better? Is there a solution they have built for MEV protection, whatever it is, right? Or if you're looking at games, right? Are they doing strongly on-chain games? Are they building game logic on-chain? Then, of course, on top of that comes the whole process of go-to-market, market-making, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But at the core, is there some innovation or not? That's kind of where my role comes in, right? When you're investing in a Web3 company, you're looking for extreme core innovation at the protocol layer, and if it's not there, then it can't be incremental, okay, I just added a 10% improvement on top of Uniswap, because in the end, what also happens is today, if I build something which is 10% better than Uniswap, Uniswap v4 may, they can easily build it out. You have to build it open source, right? So that's where my role comes in, that's where kind of we go very deep into the core base and understand technically kind of how they're building it out. Great, great, we need that, that's very helpful. Sorry, Watsal, we need you coming to you next. I know you've been a very prolific investor in this space. I think you're very focused on the Web3 blockchain ecosystem you invest out of the Middle East, your Cypher Capital Fund, as well as a few others, I think. How, you know, tech is one side, and then Watsal mentioned GTM is one of those things that, so how do you look at that portion? How does a company that is more Web3 centric than not, how do the GTM strategies look different? How are they similar to more traditional tech companies? Love to hear your thoughts on those. So before I go into that, I'll explain a bit on how we look at this whole sector. You know, we have 400 million wallets exist in the world as of now. If I assume one wallet is one percent, it's less than four percent. We've not even started. It's like the 1980s of the Indian stock market, where no one has a clue what a stock represents. This is where you have those scams of Arshad Mehta's and Ketan Parek's, and this is where the Junjun wallets get formed. We're so early when we talk about future on Bitcoin crypto, it's still evolving. And now coming to go to market strategies and things, again, because you had a show of hands where people were developing, in fact, one show of hands. How many of you have actually lent or borrowed on our way compound or anything? See, that's the percentage of adoption. It's not even one percent. So we actually haven't started on the adoption scale. Now, when it comes to go to market strategies, you know, we meet a lot of people who want to build up these lending borrowing protocols. I don't know how many of you remember Anchor Protocol that was giving 20% a year? Yeah, oh, you remember. I'm sure you lost. I lost that last. Yeah. I actually don't do 20% a year businesses, so that's why I saved my money. But again, you know, adoption is not going to come by paying people 20%. That's basically upon the scheme. Adoption will come and that is where go to market strategies come, you know, because when I talk to founders, I'm like, okay, what's your go to market strategy? I'll do this marketing ad and I will get influencers and there's this whole BS about community building. But actually go to market strategies, someone landing with a stable coin in Zimbabwe and replacing the US dollar with the USDT. Someone landing up in Lebanon and giving an Aave compound attached to a credit card or a debit card to actually use it for transactions. Suddenly you have 10 million customers overnight and the complexity of all this is, you know, 2017 was all about someone wanted to plant a tree in Africa, let's do an ICO. It has no connection with Blockchart. 2020 was use cases and ICOs. So, you know, you had Aave's compound, fractal, where there was real use case. You can lend borrow, you can do stable coins. And I think the next season is all 2024 is all about use cases, ICOs and adoption. How will you get the next billion users on board? And in that sense, going to these Latin American countries, Africa is where, you know, you will have to do groundwork and find out the problems that you can solve. Not launching tokens is not go-to-market strategy. Sure, it makes a lot of sense. Thank you, Vinay. Speaking of, you know, the GTM strategy is one of the core things is also user experience, right? Nakshya, we'll come to you next. I know at Draper Dragon, your global fund, you invest very prolifically, you know, globally and you are helping lead the Indian arm of that. What have you seen from the user experience side of things? That should be different. You know, it's been a lot of times, Web3 or original crypto applications have been very, very clunky. There's been, you know, the Web3 native people or crypto native people have been able to use them, maybe, you know, coders, developers. But there has been lacking in terms of experience, user experience when it comes to these applications. How do you view that? Is it still so early that we don't need to worry about it or is it so late that we must have the best, absolute best UI UX before we can make more progress in the ecosystem? What are your thoughts there? Yeah, so very good question, Ravi. I think everybody that's in the Web3 space is wondering, you know, how do we get past this, you know, as Vinit mentioned, the 4% adoption mark, right? So if you look at consumer apps, you know, they need to be in grossing. They need to be intriguing to the point that people forget what tech they're using. Is it AR, is it AI, is it blockchain, whatever? Right, so we've yet to get to that point. But to be honest, I think we were just not ready as from an infra standpoint until now. And so a lot of our infra investments over the years are now taking us closer to a point where in, you know, those jittery and laggy experiences will go away. When you look at, you know, UI and UI, UX experience standpoint, so I think, you know, in the social side of things, a lot of things are picking up, where things are more about network, where things are more about free speech, or, you know, if you can unlock yourself from, let's say, Twitter because, you know, some sort of censorship is not something that you relate to or a YouTube where, you know, a popular content creator does not get lost, you know, the moment they sort of step away from following the guidelines of a particular platform, right? So from that standpoint for social networks, I feel decentralized social graphs, again, is an infra, you know, innovation, but it does not take a lot on the UI, UX standpoint, for a social app like that to pick up. But when you talk about gaming, so I've invested in a few games, the team is very proud of its, you know, gaming investments all across the globe. So for example, CropBytes, I love the way they, you know, build on the original paradigm of firm will, right? So I feel great about the fact that, you know, these ideas that people relate to in Web 2.5 construction, you know, it's very easy to incentivize people with financial incentives, right? So now we've gotten to that point, but we have not yet added the utility of, you know, finding that what's that next thing that Web 3 is gonna offer to these games outside of financial incentives, right? So I think it's now, it's the moment where you find those hooks beyond that added zeitgeist of decentralization. So essentially, I would say that, you know, find those Web 2.5 constructs at first. And, you know, in no time, I see the infrastructure to be ready, right? It's gonna get there very soon, and sooner than we all imagine, right? And that's the point where I see the UI UX is gonna be a lot better. I mean, just look at the, you know, UI of any Web 3, you know, company. The apps look phenomenal. I love, you know, CoinDCX's new app. You know, being an investor, you know, I'm so proud, but otherwise also, right? So we're getting to the point that people are realizing that, you know, knockry.coms of the world, they need to know it. Look at what Web 3 is doing. We are the poster for where, you know, UI can get to. So I'm very proud of the direction we're getting to, but once infrastructure solutions get solved, Web 3 native games are gonna be coming as well, right? So that'll be my thought for, you know, adopting with a hook something add-on, but definitely again, agreeing with Whatcel that it's not gonna be 10% addition. It's gonna be phenomenally what can you bring to the table that it's not yet been seen. Got it. That's great. Thank you, Akshay. Switching tags a little bit. Harsh, I know you help invest from Kyber Ventures, right? Again, it's a global fund from the decks, and you're helping them invest in India, Southeast Asia more broadly. From going away from, let's say, the consumer applications for a second, and looking at the foundations a little bit. I know you've been very interested and active on the infrastructure on the real-world asset side. How do you bridge between real-world assets? Let's say there is an application between a real estate developer who wants to now put it on the blockchain, tokenize it or what have you, but there is a bridge to be had there, right? And how do you evaluate something like that? Well, what are the constructs that you use to say that, okay, this is actually gonna work versus this has no, you know, whether it's regulatory or not, but this may not go very well. How do you look at those things? Sure, Ravi. So we were always like from 2016, we are the leaders in stepping or setting the stone, like we were the world's first decks now. After that, we incubated Uniswap, one inch, we were the one who behind WBTC, Crystal, and many more. So we know the work, where the DeFi area is going on. We have, like earlier that time, with Alik was our founder, so we have a good connection with Ethereum. So we are here to broadify the DeFi ecosystem. Now coming to the RWAs and the bridging between Redify and I say, CryptoFi or Cryptoassets, so the things are pretty native here. Now, if you talk about DeFi, most of the people say DeFi means buying, selling, lending, borrowing, or swapping. No, DeFi is not that, because it's a decentralized finance. Finance is a very broad term where money comes in. So if in a single export and import transition, I can create six ecosystem there, from a letter of credit, asset securitization, invoice discounting, billing, asset leasing. So finance is very big, so I'm here, like we are now to set another stepping stone to create another economy wherein people will use the finance, right now if you're sitting in India. And if you want to, like last week only, I said my friend to bring an iPhone from me in Dubai. The thing is, in India I had to buy USDC at premium. So here also, like for an iPhone, I had to pay extra. Like if I'm in, let's say, in Zimbabwe, and I want to transit with it somewhere in a village in Chile or in Mexico, so still I have to pay the premium, or maybe some extra premium that went up to 15 to 20%. And if I talk about exporter import businesses, like people still pay 30%, 50%, APY, whether they want to borrow money, they want to discount their bills or something like that. But if you see the DeFi ecosystem, DeFi, money is there, players are there, developers are there, just we need a good bridges. And to evaluate these bridges, yeah, now that, like if we say about the timing, timing is a good timing, but we need some tech stability there because lots of bridge hack has been happening like in last year, tech ecosystem plus finance ecosystem, we had to merge that thing. So we basically look in the team member, founders, I myself from, I've been into investment banking, I work with JPMorganics team, I've also served as a private equity guy in global growth, Florida. So I know how finance ecosystem work, so we are here to integrate finance with tech. So, this is the next area, like we'll be focusing on and we'll be bringing the DeFi to the next where the liquidity will be one trillion, it's not like in billions. Awesome, thank you Harsh. I just wanted to do a time check. So what was that buzzer for? Are we out of time already? Are we out of time? How much did we have, 30 minutes? And we've done 30 minutes? That is awesome. I mean, I could sit here, I think we could sit here another three hours at that rate. But there's so many great questions, I'd love to get your inputs on. But Rohit, I'd love to hear and Akshay mentioned about the, how great an app coin DCX is. From, but put your investor hat again, right? Of course, I know you deal a lot with, across the coin DCX venture ecosystem versus the strategy and so on. But putting your investor hat, we have, it was during the ICO boom, the tokenization and all those token offerings were a lot of rage as Vinitha mentioned. But how do you look at, even today, there are certain, when we structure these transactions, a number of these companies, especially the infrastructure companies, are doing pure equity rounds. And that is one way to do it. Some are doing warrants over tokens and so on. But how do you look at, how do you differentiate when is the right time to raise on a token or a hybrid versus just doing equities? What are your thoughts on those? Sure. So I think at a very base level, the fundamentals of investing are the same. Whether it's web two, whether it's web three, whether it's equity, whether it's tokens, the fundamentals of building a business or the fundamentals of investing are the same. So that's the baseline. Now, to your specific question on equity versus token, as far as we are concerned, if it's an early stage investment, we will invest only where we're getting, if the company plans to issue a token, we will invest only if you're investing in tokens and equity. And we're getting the token grant along with the equity. And the simple reason for that is, down the line when they issue tokens, part of the value that the protocol generates, some of it comes to the equity holder, some of it goes to the token holders. So as an early stage investor, I cannot not have a share of the pie which would also go to the token holders. So as an early stage investor, I would certainly invest only in opportunities where we're getting both equity and tokens. In later stage rounds, much later stage companies with, where the tokens have already been listed, they've been listed for a while, the monetization mechanisms and the revenue split between tokens and equity is kind of hard coded into the smart contract. At that point, we can consider investing in the tokens because I know what I'm getting. But I wouldn't invest only in equity, whereas I know a company could have issued a token later in the day.