 Heavens won't fall if IU resigns today says Bodejord and we're not going back on the opposition to same-faith tickets says the Forum of Northern Christians. This is Post-Politics, I am Mary Anacorn. Former Deputy National Chairman of the People's Democratic Party, Chief Bodejord on Thursday warned that the PDP risks losing the 2023 elections if its National Chairman, Sen. IU, fails to resign. The PDP leader, who noted that the heavens won't fall if IU resigns from office, insisted that the vote of confidence passed on the National Chairman at the next meeting does not hold water. He warned that the party's presidential candidate, Alhagia Tikwabubuka, not to take PDP leaders and members from the southern part of the country for granted, saying the party must do the needful now that anything else will be suicidal. While joining us to discuss this is Oste and then he is a PDP chieftain. It's good to have you join us. Great. Oste, I think you and I have had a conversation similar to this, of course, as a result of the Wikei-Atiku situation. But now I think this has gone past the Wikei-Atiku situation. Now it seems to be a southern caucus problem. I think two days ago we had Atiku with the governor of Oste and a conversation was being had. It seemed to those of us who were watching that your presidential candidate does not have a problem, per se, with the idea of the chairman being seen out of the party, but then he had a certain caveat as to when he should be stepping out of the party. But I want to call for that video. Let's take a look at what the Oste governor had to say about this and then we'll start the conversation. He's asking that the National Working Committee of PDP should be restructured such that what you have in the face of Nigerians right now, which is our candidates from the North East, the PDP National Chairman is from the North Central. What was floated a few days back where they said my brother, Governor Amino Tambua, is the DG of the campaign is from the North West. Maybe that has happened, maybe it has not happened, but he has the quality and the capacity to be the DG of this campaign. There's no doubt about that. We're about to resolve the issue of what we have in the face of Nigerians by asking the National Chairman to step down so that PDP in the southern part of the country will feel included in the top hierarchy of PDP. He has developed a constitution, electoral processes, zoning of offices, power sharing, talk about everything which will bring about the unity of the party and the unity of the country. No problem from wherever any member of the party comes from, but it must be done in accordance with our constitution, our regulations, and our practices. What Governor Shehi is calling for is achievable under our constitution, under our conventions, under our rules, under our regulations, and under our procedures. Governor Shehi made his position and then, of course, this has to be done the right way in accordance to the constitution of the party. I ask you as a party member, what exactly do you think the presidential candidate was referring to? The PDP constitution has put fail safes into it. If the chairman were from the south east and he were to resign or be unable to carry out his duties as chairman, he would fall to the deputy chairman from the south to take over his position. So chairman Ayu is from the north central. Even if he were to step down, we have a deputy chairman north, Honorable Damagun, I think his name is, who would then automatically by our constitution become a chairman. So in essence, what Governor Shehi Makin is asking for is not just for Ayu to step down, it's also for the deputy national chairman south to step down. And then Honorable Arapaja, who is now the deputy national chairman south, would then automatically become the acting chairman of the party. So you can see it's a very convoluted, complicated process. It's not as simple as asking Ayu to step down. We have barely 12 days from the start of campaigns. And yes, Waziri Atiko did say it's achievable, it's possible. But when he puts the caveat about in accordance with the constitution, therein lies the problem. Are we going to have an emergency constitution 12 days before the start of primaries? I don't think it's possible. Whilst I do concede the fact that it may appear on the face of it that, you know, the PDP is top heavy leaning towards the north. A candidate comes from the north. A national chairman comes from the north central. There really isn't to my mind any window, I think, left for us to hold a convention and get and restructure the party as Governor Shea Makin had asked us to do. And what has happened in the past typically is when a president elect emerges, then you then have the time between the emergence of president elect and the swearing of that president elect. You then have time to sort of restructure the party. I think it's dangerous to attempt to restructure the entire party just 12 days before the start of campaigns. I mean, I also remember you saying this the last time we spoke. I'm thinking it's been weeks from then till now. If the party was really indeed interested in making sure that they calm all the frayed nerves, could that not have been a consideration? I mean, of course, according to you, it had been late. But would the party also want to risk winning the elections? Because, again, I want to quote Chief Body Judge. He's saying that the PDP may risk losing the 2023 elections if IU fails to resign. And that must be something that really runs deep in the party. I'm not a member of the PDP, but I'd like to know, does it mean that the party might lose the elections because of IU? How serious is this? I wish I could dismiss it as an idle talk. It's not idle talk. I mean, people speaking about IU stepping down as serious, very influential political figures within the PDP. We're talking about Governor Wiki. We're talking about Chief Body Judge. We're talking about Governor Shea McIndy. And they have been very clear about what they're requesting. And I think the concern is not just their clarity in their request, but the clarity in the consequences that they are warning of that if this isn't done, then the party may well lose the 2023 elections. If it fails, it falls on the chairman to take a decision on whether he won. He feels his seat is more important than maybe the party winning the elections. He didn't say, you know, he's being misquoted as saying that, you know, if a candidate from the North emerges, he will step down. He didn't actually say that. He said if a candidate from the North emerges and the party asked him to step down, then he would. Since the last time we spoke, the party's National Executive Committee has met and actually given a vote of confidence on the continued tenure of the chairman. So the party is backing 100%. As you might be aware, just yesterday, the PDP had released its presidential campaign council. So it seems that at this point, the party is moving forward and they're just getting ready for the start of campaigns and the elections proper. I would urge, maybe from the, you know, and I don't want to dismiss the concern that Chippodejot has raised. For instance, if you look at the party, you know, we have in the Southwest a presidential candidate in the APC. His argument is that he wants to be able to go into the Southwest and show the face of the PDP represented in the leadership of the Southwest. That currently really isn't happening. Even though our national publicity secretary is from the Southwest, it's not a top tier position, so to speak, in the leadership cadre of the party. But, you know, like I said, it's a fine balancing act. Do you risk sabotaging or torpedoing the entire party because you want to assuage the feelings of just one political geopolitical zone? Or would you urge, I think, restraint and say, campaigns are going to be formed. Elections come up in February. Once elections are concluded, then everything that's southeast and the Southern Caucus is asking for can be achieved. Can we also say that the Southern Caucus is just one, you know, region in the party? I'm asking because there seems to be that, there had been that clarion call for party leadership to make sure that whatever candidate was being fielded should be from the South, even though the PDP ended up with an Atikwa bubaka. Do you not think that they have a legitimate stake here, whether they be one region or not? Do you feel that they need to, you know, air their thoughts whether they be aggrieved or not or asking for something that's legitimate or maybe just sentimental? I think it's both. I think it's legitimate and I think it is also sentimental. I think it's a valid conversation to be had. I think maybe why I draw the line is when in the pursuit of this, or the resolution of these issues, you threaten the party's electoral successes. I want us to pull back a little bit from personal or even regional grievances and look at the national condition. We are industrious as a country. We've never had an employment this high. Inflation, we hit record highs, I think a couple of days ago of more than 20%. Insecurity is ripe in every geopolitical zone of the country. We right now are earning less now. We're using the service as debt. The country is technically bankrupt. And I think sometimes, you know, I come on the shelf like sometimes and maybe remind our leaders that the issues at stake here are more than some of the partisan considerations that we might be putting to the fore. And I would always urge that regardless of whatever differences we might be expressing and which I do encourage, we should never lose sight of the fact that ultimately we need to come together as a united party, as a united opposition to take back power from the failure in APC. How do you come together as a united party without dealing with these divisions within the party? I'd like to go back to something that Chief Badejaj said. He said, how will southern PDP leaders convince their electorates to vote for our candidate when there is no substantial national position in the southwest? He again goes on to say, have we thrown our integrity to the dogs? He also said that unless we're united, unless we have fairness, equity, justice in our system, the party and the country is heading nowhere. So if you're asking for people to come together and then there is a huge elephant in the room, that's somewhat just not being addressed as it should be. Where is the oneness and the walking together to make sure that you win the elections? I'm sorry, I know that you're not... I know that you're not the party chairman, but I mean, you're the man here, so you have to answer the questions. Of course, that's fine. I always encourage conversations and just from the ebb and flow of this conversation or the attempts to resolve this. You've seen the BOT chairman step down. He was from the north. He was occupied by Senator Wabora from the southeast. Governor Shea Makinde has emerged as the... I think the deputy director general of the campaign, so the south is represented in the campaign council. Governor Udom is currently the chairman of the presidential campaign council. So there are attempts to resolve this problem. And I am aware that there are limits to what the candidates can do. He cannot force IU to step down. It would spark an entirely different constitutional crisis and would tie us up in court, like it did with previous chairman we had who we tried to force out. Like we did happen in Secondos, like happened with our mother sheriff before him. And I think we need to learn from our history as a party. I spoke about the constitutional provision that says if the chairman steps down, the deputy from that same region replaces him. That came from previous experiences where one chairman would step down and then a chairman from another region would occupy his office. And that was sort of like an attempt to address that problem, that attempts of... that imbalance. So we sort of a harm-stronger constitution. We cannot, like I said, afford to go into this election season tied up in litigation. The candidate has said it's open to the idea of IU stepping down, but it has to be done constitutionally. And I think ultimately it then lies with, not just IU, but maybe on the Magan to say, look, in the interest of peace, progress, and unity for our party, are we willing to, both of us, but both of them have to step down. Both of us step down so a southern or southwestern chairman can emerge. In many 12 days, I think that's the only window we have. There really is no other way. The candidate cannot force a chairman to step down. But sometimes I personally think you should read to the room. If everybody's clamoring for one thing, if the candidate himself is saying, it's open to this being done, if I were in the chairman's shoes, I won't take the path of honor and step down. Well, let's try to turn the tables here. If your presidential candidate were in the shoes of the chairman, would he do the same? And many have also queried that is he doing everything to make sure that he just wins as opposed to making sure that there is some legalities followed within the party again. Going back to the situation between Rike and Atikua Buboka, how well do you think he's handled that situation from a presidential candidate's position? I think he sort of was stoned by what happened in 2019 where he made a lot of unilateral decisions, one of which was picking Peter Albee, Peter Albee then, who became his running mate in 2019. And you sort of have seen a different approach this time around. Everything he has done has been in consultation with party leaders and the party's leadership. And sometimes it has slowed down the process. I think if I have any criticism, it's just how slowly things have moved simply because the candidates have insisted this time on being as consultative as possible. I probably would have handled the weekend situation slightly differently. I'm from the South myself and I understand the grievances he has expressed. But to be fair, many of us ran for primaries and many of us lost. I ran for the House of Reps. I lost. It could have been so easy to throw my dummy out of the pram and start agitating. But I always ask people to remember why we're in politics. It's not just to acquire power. It's to serve. And if that's foremost in our minds then, I think everybody should be doing everything they can do. Whether it's a candidate, whether it's a weekend, whether it's a southern coast, whether it's a chairman. We should be doing everything we can do to make sure we get the APC out of power in 2020. Let's talk about your candidates a bit more. Recently, the NOI put out a poll about the frontline presidential candidate. And there were reactions from all sides. We see that the Labour Party's candidate is in the lead for that poll. And we've seen many candidates, including your party's candidate, shoot down that poll. What's your take on that? I'd like to hear. Because several people have said that, oh, they're fake polls, but these are polls that we normally carry out at this time of the elections. Was that just a political statement? Should the PTA be a phenomenon, be a case for many political parties like yours to worry about? So I'm a pollster myself. I have a polling company. And it would be dishonest of me to come up here and say that NOI who conducted the polls, NOI polls would conduct a poll that wasn't valid. They literally are the best polling company within the country. However, because I'm a pollster, I was able to look at the reports put out by Anna Foundation and there were some very, very glaring followers. First of all, this clearly was a popularity poll. It wasn't a poll of the voter's register. So it was more like a poll of what do you think and who would you vote if you were able to vote. The second thing was that it seemed to have been made or sampled from an urban population. I poll myself and I know that the awareness of the candidates in rural areas, whether it's Tinumbua, Tiku, or Pita or Biokwankwa, so it never reaches the heights you saw in the poll of 95, 97, 96. So it suggests that this was a selected poll in urban areas. We aren't aware of polling size so I can't as a pollster say it's statistically significant. I'm going to give any way the benefit of the doubt because they wouldn't, I think, put out a poll otherwise if it wasn't statistically significant. But there are issues about it. Again, you have a huge amount of people who didn't respond. Either they said they were undecided or they just flat out refused to respond. And in every geopolitical zone but the Southeast, the number of undecided that refused to comment dwarfed the numbers of people who voted expressed an opinion for either of the candidates. So it sort of makes all the polls in every geopolitical zone irrelevant because the margin of error is too large because you have undecided and people who refuse to vote. But I will say interestingly enough in the Southeast Pita or Biokwankwa unsurprisingly I think about 68% of the votes that dwarfed the amount of people who said they were undecided or refused to comment. So the only thing the poll showed clearly was that in the Southeast in urban areas Pita or Biokwankwa is very, very popular. Interesting. But to you as a party man and of course members of your party and your presidential candidate how perturbed or not are members of your party about the Pita or Biokwankwa phenomenon? He is a very serious candidate he is a very, very serious candidate I think a lot of us dismissed him as an online sensation when he left the party very early. We studied the democracies and elections across the world and I actually haven't seen anybody move so quickly. I think he joined Leiboy in June or so and in three months he has if you take the words of the NOIPO he has secured the geopolitical zone you haven't seen that type of mobilization in Nigerian history ever. So what he had money to achieve is very, very significant. You also have seen an uptick in an awakening of young people and their engagement in the democratic process whether it's for the advocacy to go out and get their PVCs or it's in the campaigns and the rallies they've been organizing by themselves and I think that's brilliant for our democracy most democracies actually see a reverse you see young people stay away from the process in Nigeria we have seen young people adopt and embrace it so he had done many, many good things I don't see a root of victory for him still. I think he would do probably well in the southeast and the south south and therein lies the problem I spoke about a united party, I also spoke about a united opposition most of the people who are supporting Peter Abbey would traditionally have supported the PDP if it was a two horse race and what we sort of are seeing is Peter Abbey dividing the opposition vote so Attico will get a large chunk Peter Abbey will get a significantly smaller chunk I worry that the votes that Peter Abbey will get may prevent Attico from winning the presidential election in 2023 so I hope as campaigns wind down in December and January opposition parties will come together like they did in 2019 and I find a way to make this work. Attico has promised to run a government of national unity so there will be space for Obie and his campaign within government if we win. I'm hoping to see a government, I'm hoping to see a united opposition campaign together to get rid of the NPC. Okay, well I want to say thank you, Osteanele is a PDP chieftain, always a pleasure to have you join us on the show. Glad to be here, thanks for having me. Alright, thank you.