 to open the floor at the beginning of each meeting to invite anybody who is joining this meeting for the first time to introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about your background and your interest in the SIG and how you heard about it. So are there any newcomers to the call today? If so, please feel free just to speak out. I'm new. Hello, is that? Hi, Anna. Hi. I joined the Hyperledger Healthcare SIG through Wendy Charles. I don't know if she's on, but she introduced me to it when I was working on my master's in blockchain and health care. And I actually never attended a health care SIG because my master's shifted quite in another direction. But I started working at the Linux Foundation recently. And we're running a project on standards. And we're also running a project on the sustainable development goals. And we'll also be running a research project on Hyperledger. So this kind of hits all three in one, which I'm really excited about. Great. Glad you could join. Thanks for having me. OK. Is there anybody else if I want to speak up? OK. All right, so I'll hop right into it. Why don't I make a couple different announcements? We do have a couple different opportunities to participate. There are technical and non-technical opportunities. One thing that I'm looking for that I could use some support is I'd like to build awareness for the SIG next year. So I'm looking for communications and engagement officer or role to use a lot of the content that we have, a lot of the presentations we have to build out awareness for the work of the SIG with a lot of the different stakeholders. We met at COP28 and COP27 and just in the space in general. If you are looking for technical opportunities to participate, what I would recommend is going to our programming calls. We have one programming call that's every, I guess I actually have to go look at it. It's on the counter on the left-hand side, which is not showing on my screen. But we have programming calls where people with some of the different key maintenance are getting together, sharing the active projects that are being built in hyperledger labs. There's a lot of activity there. So highly recommend you go join that group. Some really great folks there worked on some really interesting projects. I wanted to also give the floor to anybody who wants to share about some of the different working groups. I can kick off with some information around our carbon accounting working group. So for those who might not know, we have a net admissions profile tracking prototype that they got a couple of different awards last year. We are focused on developing a solution for essentially tracking the admissions through supply chains of one, two, and three. We are starting way upstream focusing on methane flaring reduction, so tracking that and then using the information to be able to essentially market that environmental data to government regulators and also the marketplace to be able to find resources to decarbonize the supply chain. So that's the big picture. We've been having some really good conversations with some oil and gas producers who are interested in do running prototypes and just in general kind of working through all the contacts. We've met a COP 27, so really good momentum there. We also have a couple of research projects one with a graduate student from the University of Columbia on just a kind of a market analysis of the existing solutions or the feasibility of using DLT to solve this supply chain problem. And another project that's really kind of focused on the business model, the economics of what we're describing as a measurement economy, which essentially is the ability to unlock different levers, government regulation, green finance, consumer demand to work in a concerted effort to provide a value proposition for corporations to want to decarbonize the supply chain. So that's what we have with the carbon accounting and I guess the research working group. Christian, did you want to share anything about the standards work and any progress that you guys have? Yes, thank you. Thank you, Sherwood. Just to say we are done for the year. I think we have made very good progress thus far and we hope to give it a little bit of acceleration in January again. So I just want to thank everybody for making their contribution. And I think we are building, on the ontology that we have developed, we are already building project designs based on those insights we have developed there and we hope to bring in some people in January from, I'm bringing in some people into my office just to accelerate some of the stuff and address some of the deduce that we've identified. So we hope to have a big year next year. Thanks. Fantastic. Bertrand, is there anything that you want to share? Not to put you on the spot, but I just put you on the spot. The answer can be no. OK, you must be away. OK, great. So with that, I'd like to, I'm very excited about the speaker that we have today. I had the fortunate opportunity to catch part of Savita's presentation when she gave it to the DOIP, one of their meetings. I think it was financial objects, working group meeting. And I was just really, what was kind of impressed upon me is her ability to take something like blockchain governance and provide a framework to really kind of look at blockchain solutions and understand the different inflection points where governance is needed. So Savita is the chair of the IEEE P2145 blockchain governance standards working group. So she's heavily involved in kind of crafting and kind of developing these governance standards. So she's also a founder of Simsoft Solutions, which I'm sure she can speak to. But with that, I will kind of see the floor over to her. I'm going to stop sharing my screen, Tomas, and wanted to see if you could please help Savita with sharing her screen. Savita, you're now co-host. So can you try and go ahead? OK, yeah, I think you can see my screen. Yes, you can. Yes. OK, perfect. So I think you can see the blockchain governance framework. Yes, we can. Yes. All right. So thank you so much, Sherwood, for the introduction and for the opportunity to present in this group. Like Sherwood said, I have been involved in IEEE P2145 group for a couple of years now. And we are at a place where the standards are going to go for the mandatory editorial review and through IEEE process. So what is this group? The charter for our group has been that we wanted to develop a common nomenclature and framework for describing blockchain governance, but not for one specific use case. But we wanted the framework to be somewhat at a meta level that would work across use cases and context, public, private, blockchains, permission, permissionless, and all the varieties. So the standard is normative regarding terminology, but the framework is something not normative at this point in time. But we as a group feel that it has a lot of value to add and help the practitioners who are going to develop blockchain solutions. So when we started this work, to be honest, I was really confused. Like when we use the term blockchain governance, it meant different things for different constituents, different stakeholders. So looking at it from the enterprises, wanting to create a blockchain solution or making a decision in terms of whether they should or not join a particular blockchain network, that was considered as a governance question. The forking of the blockchain network, that is considered as a governance question, and so on and so forth. So what we decided is to get to the basics and answer these three basic questions. So what is governance? What is blockchain? And then we can talk about what is blockchain governance. So again, going to the definitions of governance, we analyze various definitions, but pretty much these two summarize at the highest level two types of governance, the governance by the rule of law, the centralized model versus the governance, which is nothing but stewardship for certain systems or entities, et cetera. So you could compare it as corporations versus cooperative organizations. And so in both of those, the role of governance is really providing direction and control. For what? The direction and control needs to be provided for that thing which is being governed. And in the P2145, we are calling that as a target of governance. So governance is about providing direction and control for targets of governance in a complex system. That target of governance may be decomposed into multiple targets of governance. But it is really that particular thing for which governance is needed, because direction and control is needed. So with that idea of target of governance, going into what exactly governance means, and at the highest level, we took this view that governance is providing direction and control, but providing direction and control by providing certain policies, certain decisions. So the process for making those decisions and the processes for implementing those decisions, those are key elements of governance. But that is not sufficient. We feel that who makes decisions, who is impacted, the people side of things covers that aspect, the membership, the decision rights, and so on. The process is about how the decisions get made. The coordination amongst stakeholders or the parties involved, it may include the coordination amongst governing members or coordination with the community and so on. So the process for decision making, the policies, what are the actual decisions that are made? Again, the word policy is being used here in a broader sense. It includes all decisions that may be needed, and those decisions could have various formats. They could be standards. They could be regulations or just guidelines. The practice talks about how those decisions are executed or implemented and forced, et cetera. And throughout all of this, incentives plays a big role. And again, the word incentives, in this context, we are using to mean both positive and negative incentives. And it is not incentives as in tokenomics, but it is incentives as in what is the business value for my organization. Or if there are regulatory compliance issues, then what if I don't do it? So both of those we categorize under incentives, the positive and negative incentives. So with that view of governance, we then went to the second question, what is blockchain? And everyone on this group is aware of the core blockchain technology provides decentralized and distributed ledger. It is cryptographically secure, et cetera. So we went to this definition of blockchain solution, which is a technical solution, a software hardware solution that utilizes blockchain technology. So in this particular diagram, the bottom two layers kind of provide the blockchain technology and the applications are built on top of blockchain technology. So this is a very simplistic view. Today, there are multiple intermediate layers. So on top of blockchain technology, there are blockchain platforms. On top of that, there could be application platforms and applications are built on top of that. Or there could be an application which is directly using blockchain technology. So with those various flavors of blockchain solutions, each one of them is successful only when we can effectively and successfully engage multiple stakeholders in the community. So in a way, you could think of it as there is the technical network, the blockchain network. But then there is a business network which is critical for the success of the solution. And so this is another point. Though it is considered in every blockchain solutions, it is not something we found was explicitly identified. And then the third thing is, so sorry, before that. So this diagram, this is from the World Economic Forum. This picture, minimum viable ecosystem here coming from the World Economic Forum's report. But this diagram shows that this underlying blockchain solution works with the ecosystem in order to deliver the objectives of the entire system. So in order to achieve that, the collaboration between the technology and business, the stakeholders, it is critical. So we have identified the four stages of blockchain solution lifecycle. It is the creation of the blockchain solution itself where stakeholder alignment is needed around the objectives, the vision, the business strategy, the business model, et cetera. The operation of the blockchain solution where you're operating the blockchain network and the solution on top of it. The evolution, this is where the changes in the protocol or changes due to regulations may occur. And finally, retirement, though we don't talk much about it. Like I say that in the European world, blockchain will live forever. The retirement of a blockchain solution are real concerns. And Wendy, actually, Wendy Charles is also part of P20145. And she has brought the group's attention to this particular stage. So throughout all of this, there is that the technical solution and the stakeholders need to work together. So with that understanding of blockchain, now we went to what is the blockchain governance framework? And it is really at the simplistic level identifying the targets of governance for a blockchain solution and designing governance for that particular target or those targets. So a blockchain governance in a ways that applying our model to the blockchain governance targets and as I mentioned earlier, we identified these three highest level targets, the blockchain technology solution, the ecosystem and the life cycle. So going into the details of the targets of governance, though these are the highest level targets, the technology solution ecosystem and life cycle, they can be further subdivided into additional targets. Again, keeping in mind that for whenever you need direction and control, we need to have governance. So the direction and control could be provided at the highest level for a technology solution and that direction and control may include each of these following like the lower level target or there might be a specific target of governance such as data governance that is so critical and engages different stakeholders that we need specific governance direction and control for that particular element. So software development versus business strategy, the stakeholders involved for both of those components are different stakeholders, the decision making may be different, how you implement the decisions may be different. And so we do not in our standards define specific targets of governance, but we say that consider these three, the technology solution ecosystem and life cycle at highest level of governance targets. And within each of this, depending on your solution and what is critical for your particular use case, define the governance targets. So the standard provides a reference outline for blockchain governance design plan and this reference outline follows what I described in this presentation, starts with the introduction. We ask to describe the blockchain solution under consideration and it would include things such as the business use case, the industry sector, the type of solution from technology perspective, whether it is a blockchain platform or is it an application, whether it is a scaling solution, et cetera, whether it uses public, private or hybrid blockchain, the resources, data ownership issues, liability issues, et cetera. So basically the overview provides input for identifying in order to govern this particular solution what in turn we need to provide direction and control for and list of selected blockchain governance targets identifies those components where governance is needed. And the final section is about defining governance for each of those identified targets of governance. So for each targets of governance, we do identify that its purpose, the context within which it lives and finally define the governance for that, including the people process, policy practice and incentives elements. So that's kind of whatever work is on the P20 and 45. Now, how do we apply it for a project such as the CA2SIG lab, the driving decarbonization with environmental data? So by the way, Sherwood, the draft that you shared with me, the group has done wonderful work. So I want to acknowledge that you've already identified the objectives both from the global ecosystem perspective and for this project. The technical solution has been identified at a high level and you've identified the need for engaging multiple stakeholders. So the technology targets of governance for this project could be the data management system, the verification system and the certification system at high level. However, for each of these systems, you may have to drill down and identify the lower levels of targets in the technology area, such as the standardization of data that could be in itself something that requires different governance or the business objectives and strategy, that might need its own governance. Then coming to the ecosystem, again, you've identified the stakeholders. The question is how these stakeholders would be organized? You have identified the need for a DAO for the audit contracts, but the governance of DAO itself also will have to be considered and similar things. So it's like, again, looking at your project and identifying the targets of governance would be that first step and then applying the governance model would be that next step. So that's what my presentation is and I'm open for any questions. Well, thank you so much, Savita. I was so glad to be able to see this for a second time because it's such great information and I think it's such clarity you bring to the challenge of governance in the blockchain environment that it was very informative the second time as well. For everybody else on the call, just to provide a little bit more background around the last part of Savita's presentation. And Savita, would you mind going back to slides just so I can show this right here? Thank you. Or actually, forward one. This is related to a project proposal that we're working on and Savita is graciously offered to kind of be a part of kind of advising on this project. But we're working on submitting a project proposal for consideration by the DOC within Hyperledger. This is a work in progress, but it's built around this idea of using some different Hyperledger DLT solutions to essentially create a climate accounting solution that can end up right hand part of the screen here. You can see exactly kind of what the solution does and to pull different emissions data so that it can be then verified by third-party auditors and then certified for different stakeholders in the regulatory and also the financial marketplace. And the idea is essentially to create a more efficient marketplace for environmental data by making it more accessible, by bringing down the cost, by making it more trusted. And essentially creating an ecosystem in which different technology providers, different stakeholders can kind of plug into this shared ledger to share information and share value. And so obviously governance would be a critical piece. I mean, so we're very, very lucky to have Savita and her interest interact for teams. So having said that, we have 30 minutes left. I want to leave about five minutes at the end of the call to invite community members on the call to share a little bit about upcoming events or any potential speakers that they think that we should have or any just general announcements. But yeah, I have plenty of questions, but before I dig into mine, I'll open up the floor to see if anybody has any questions. Perhaps just raise your hand and I can see the different participants. So if you have any questions, please raise your hand. And we'll ask them. Yeah, I have a question. Sure. The previous slide, I think it's very good. Is that a use case that's been worked on or is that just an active project that's been worked on? This emission data management system. So this emissions data management system is a prototype that's under development and actually the kind of the lead, I don't know what I call you for trying developer that concept guy, the driving force behind this project is on the call and I wanted to see if you wanted to kind of speak to it. Actually, you might have had to drop off. Yeah, so this is active. The prototype has been developed. One, the IBM call for code this year and one, the Hyperledger Challenge. We are actively engaged with some different pilot partners to work on getting off the ground. And this is also the kind of the core part of our project proposal. But yeah, if you are interested in it, please reach out to me. Happy to chat about it. But this is definitely, yeah, it's kind of active and moving forward. Sure. Okay. Thank you, Xiu. Since this conversation is about the governance, right? How does this project ties into the governance modeling? That Savita was talking about earlier. Is there any directly into the governance side of it? Yeah, so I think Savita can speak to it, but I think she used the conversation we're having with Savita to advise us on the different governance components of this. And I mean, she can speak to that. It just kind of provides an example of applying governance to blockchain. Right, yeah. So again, like on this particular slide, you can see that there are three subsystems that have been identified. The data management system. So data management system itself would need governance. Now, in order to, what does that mean? So if we drill down into data management system, the data is being provided by multiple stakeholders and it needs to be interoperable. So are there data standards going to be developed for that? So that is one of the considerations. So consider any of these elements. So data standardization or how do we really control the permissions to who gets access to what data? All of those are kind of governance questions. And by governance questions, like the way we define it is that governance is all about making decisions. And decisions for what? Decisions so that the thing that you are developing would function as it is intended to. So data pooling solutions, there is some objective. So governance is needed such that you provide direction and control in order to achieve that objective. And so we kind of drill down on both the sides. What needs direction and control and what are the elements of governance? So elements of governance include then who is a decision-making authority. Again, the word authority is strong, but it can be decision-making authority in a decentralized model too. So who makes the decisions about the data pooling solutions? What process do they follow in order to make those decisions? How do they communicate the decisions to all involved? And how do they implement it? And through all of this, what incentives do you provide for the parties involved such that they are going to make the right decisions, aligned with the objectives of the data pooling solution? So that's kind of is the approach we are like from the P2145 model that is the approach we would propose. Thank you, Savita. Is the purpose of that committee eventually trying to drive to like some kind of a standard or some kind of white papers as part of the governance work? So the P2145 would be providing recommended practice through IEEE. Yes. Thank you. For those of us who are interested in learning more about governance, specifically with regards to the work with IEEE, can you talk a little bit about what resources there are that come out of that? How we might engage and whether there is the opportunity to bring prototypes? For example, some people that call might be working on prototypes. Is there an appetite for prototypes to apply these standards to? Absolutely. And in fact, we are kind of finishing the group review and approvals hopefully this month. And then it will go through the IEEE process where the ballot ballots would be formed and public comments would be invited, et cetera. So while that path is going on, we are in fact working on some prototypes, some applications, basically how do we apply the governance model to real world use cases? In fact, Tom Klein, I don't know if he's on the call, but if he is, he can speak about, he is part of the Hyperledger supply chain trade finance. So he is working on reverse logistics use case and applying this model for that particular use case. There are some other couple of initiatives also going on right now in early stages. But we're also drilling down into specific aspects and considerations for blockchain governance which need to be considered in order to design the governance. And they can go into further details in terms of when is on-chain versus off-chain governance appropriate and so on and so forth. But that is a supplementary work to the standard, but the standard is the core work. Great. And in developing these standards, did you look with your approach, were there specific examples of blockchain standards that were in place that you looked at to kind of inform your approach to developing the standards? Are there good kind of use cases out there that kind of stick in mind that would be good for people to look at because standards are one thing, but seeing it in action is another. Right, yeah. And so basically the ISOs blockchain governance standard that work exists. And in fact, when we started, that work was already ahead. At the same time, I was kind of informed that standards work that way, that there could be multiple standards, but then ultimately the market chooses what works for them. So we did take this meta approach compared to any other governance standards work where we are not specifically kind of identifying that you need to do this or this, but we are saying that depending on your use case, you identify what needs to be governed and consider these elements of governance. So in that sense, it is flexible. It can be applied to different use cases and so on, but applying the standard to specific use case, that is something, like I said, is work in progress. And once we have that at a certain point, we would be creating white papers and publishing on the IEEE Police website. So that in action, you will see it in some time. And so I understand it correctly that the existing ecosystem of the environment of DLT governance, that a lot of the governance framework are more prescriptive than IEEE. Yes, yeah. And is that just out of necessity? Why do you know what are your thoughts on why the kind of landscape was created like that? I think, I mean, it's a real problem, real challenge. And so whoever is developing a blockchain solution needs help and they want help right away. So the prescriptive models, if you could say that do this, that, that, then it seems easier to do, but governance needs real understanding of why, like why do you need governance in the first place? What are the objectives? And what we are proposing is really that deep thinking in terms of why do you really need it? And then considering who's involved and how it would work to meet the objective. So I think that I know that in our standard, we are putting a lot of onus on the users of the standards to think it through, but we are providing the guidelines. It's something similar to IEEE software engineering standards. So software requirement specifications, the IEEE standard provides, okay, think about functional requirements, think about process requirements and so on and so forth. But they do not dictate anything beyond that because it really depends on your solution. So that's kind of whatever a few ways. There's a question from Elizabeth Green that I see. She asked, how does IEEE plan to develop independent governance? For example, how do we make accessible to the widest public the carbon offset retirement log or retail carbon credits and green tokens that are not securities? She meant, for example, air carbon exchange currently securitizes carbon credits into tradable carbon asset class. So yeah, how does IEEE plan to develop independent governance? So if you can speak Elizabeth, independent, can you define like what do you mean? Okay, not dependent upon a particular country these governments. In other words, this says, yeah, Securities Change Commission now controls what IEEE can and cannot do. I don't think so. Right, right, right. Yeah, absolutely. Again, the IEEE standard is, like I said, it is at meta level, we are not saying that you need to govern one specific thing or, and then again, the governance, consider this, like there is this, the context within which a blockchain solution sits, right? So that is, it's deployed say across the spectrum so that is, it's deployed say across the globe versus deployed within one particular jurisdiction. There are rules and regulations for the kind of maybe, I don't know the equivalent entity in environmental data, but say World Health Organization defines policies for the nations, for specific things versus each nation has policies for themselves. So those particular governance regulations and so on, we consider that as the context within which the blockchain solution sits. So the work is focused on the governance for the blockchain solution. And that governance need to take into consideration the context of the regulatory requirements for the nations, the compliance requirements, et cetera. So in a way, we are not dictating anything that the governments are doing, but whatever are the regulations, we are considering that as input for defining governance for the solution. I don't know if that helps. So that you can choose a way for the project to work that obeys the laws of natural science instead of obeying the laws of economics. Yeah, I mean, it depends on what you want to accomplish. What is your use case? What is your objective? And accordingly, what needs direction and control? Can you share a little bit about just the general strategy for adoption of the standards? I mean, obviously all the work is being done. Is there kind of thought given to the consortium building or the awareness building or what is it that ensures that these standards are used? That there's just kind of a network effect that people are using them. Can you share a little bit about the thinking there and the strategy? Yeah, again, that is something it's work going on right now. What I can share is that the use cases and providing concrete ways of using the standards, that is something we feel would be really useful because otherwise it may feel too abstract. So that is something we are working on. And we feel that if we can provide some use cases and some examples, that's what would be useful for the practitioners. And even the question that Elizabeth is raising, it's a great question and how does that interaction works? That's something everyone who wants to create such solution is interested in. So that's something would become clear through the examples that we create. And so that is our next step. But in the meanwhile, we are actually in the process of creating a marketing strategy and plan. So that is something I may not be able to share with you right now, but it's work in progress. Yeah, thank you. And another question that I had, I'm assuming that the IEEE and these standards are all open source, correct? IEEE standards are not open source. Okay, okay. But it's a community that's developing and it's all volunteer based? Yes. Interesting. Can you share, I find that fascinating. Can you share a little bit about the value proposition, the incentives, what drives different stakeholder groups to contribute? What do you think it is? I mean, for our group, it is really people want to learn and contribute. It's really that. It's really fascinating that through this volunteer group, we could create this without any specific incentives, except that they are willing, they want to learn. And of course, any learning in future, they may be able to utilize in their work. So that's kind of the only thing. Okay. And recognition, of course, like the social recognition. Right. So what kind of, can you talk a little bit about the, it was one of the things that we are kind of trying to explore and understand is the commercial applications, the commercial environment that builds on top of open source environments. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the commercial environment that you foresee building on top, even though they're not open source, but is there an opportunity for different commercials, stakeholders to participate in value exchanges that are not IEEE? And who are the players and what does that look like? Yeah, I mean, like, so how do you apply the IEEE model to a specific use case? There are consulting opportunities in that, right? Because how do you identify what requires direction and control? Right. Be your business model that is sustainable, right? Right. So that you have considered appropriate incentives for the parties involved. So those are some of the consulting opportunities that I see right away, you know, the applicability. On top of that, you could have tools to create a governance design plan. So some questions would be raised and then you could answer those or along with that some guidelines would be provided to you. And I kind of imagine a tool in my mind where you just start filling out the questions and answers with appropriate guidance to you for answering each question and you get your design plan. You know. Yep, makes sense. I've got a question from Alex Howard. Do you have any opinion on using reputation as a mechanism of governance? Right. So this is again, really good question. So I'm also part of Trust Over IP and participating in that. So the trust and reputation is like, again, those words kind of go kind of hand in hand. But coming back by Tripoli's work, we say that, okay, who is governing and who needs to abide by those governing? Those decisions that the governing party makes. So in that particular realm, who is governing the reputation of who is governing becomes important. That kind of gives some additional trust in the decisions made because when you're told that do ex even in a family, the governance of the family if you consider if the child is told that do ex by dad versus mom. And if the mom lets go, if you don't do ex, you will have certain consequences and mom never follows through versus dad always follows through. So there's reputation there, right? So based on that reputation, what is the impact on the decision-making processes, the decisions themselves, the decision implementation, et cetera. So definitely reputation is critical, but that in itself is not kind of, we don't consider that as a mechanism of governance, but it is something to be considered for determining the legitimacy and trust in the governance. Right, right. So this last question for me because I work for an internet governance for ICANN, this is also for Hanna. For somebody who's really interested in exploring this space and interested in potentially participating in development of government standards, and just kind of getting a feel for what's going on, what are the working groups, what would you recommend if somebody wants to get involved and start actively engaging and participating? Right, yeah. So actually, you can reach out to me and Sherwood, maybe I'll post my email address in the chat and we do have the work going on. Like I said, though the main standards work is at the final stages, we still do have a lot of work in terms of the use cases and application of the standards, which is critical for the use of the standard. So that's something we will be continuing and so would love participation from anyone who is interested, please reach out to me and I'll provide you additional information. Absolutely, fantastic. Okay, there, Savita has posted her email to the chat and if we have time for one more question, otherwise I was going to wrap this with a couple of questions open to the community, to members. Savita, do you want to stop sharing your screen or would you be able to do that? Hold on, I'm trying to do that. Okay, thank you. I'm trying to do that. Okay, thank you. Actually, I might be able to, no. Should be at the very bottom. Well, fantastic, Savita, that was, it's not even really that important. I think I can remember the questions. This is really informative. I think we all really appreciated it. Internet governance or the blockchain governance is so critical to this work and it's really great to hear from someone who's so deeply embedded in this world. And I think that you do a really great job of being able to make this digestible for the layman. Really great framework for me. It just really kind of helped me get my arms around the kind of high level of how to approach a governance problem. And I think that's why I find it so exciting, especially coming from the internet governance world that I can tell you that the presentation that I just saw that you gave, I think it's a lot more concise than a lot of the communication that I've seen in the internet governance space. So that in itself is incredibly useful. And thank you for sharing with us all. I wanted to wrap this up just very quickly, opening the floor to anybody on the call. And I wanted to see if anybody has anything that they'd like to share as far as upcoming events or initiatives or speaking opportunities that we should be aware of. Please feel free to share and potentially any items for upcoming meetings and potentially even speakers that you'd like us to have. So I'll see the floor to the group to see if anybody has anything to share. I'm sure this is Kirti here. Hey, Kirti. I've been here for a couple of sessions in the past and haven't had a chance to participate and engage better, but a lot of motivation now to be a part of the focus group and start engaging on a couple of projects that we're working on. So we call NetZero Protocol and we are currently looking at verifying emissions using satellite data. And we started as a part of the Chainlink hackathon and now we've started working very closely with EU, Metsat, European Space Agency to look at basically the data validations for methane, nitrogen dioxide. The list goes on and on, so it's a big long list of I think 10 data sets that we're currently working with. Just trying to understand broadly from this focus group to say how do we put this project in here and talk about the project, get some expertise and support, probably from environmental scientists out there who can help us validate some of the algorithms that we are currently working on. And also our finality of emission reporting would utilize a hyperledger solution. And we're trying to see the last bridge. We always think that blockchain is a finality layer. So we want to see how we can engage with the hyperledger community and move the proposal forward. So I really appreciate any help around this and happy to either share more in this session or in a separate session, which of us is the best way to do things? Yes, absolutely. So first, welcome. I'm very excited to have you here. It sounds like you're doing some really interesting work and I'd love to learn more. I think with the given time we have, the best thing would be for you to reach out to my email. I just posted it in the chat and I can connect you with some different members within the SIG that I think could kind of help us with that conversation forward. Brilliant. Okay. But yeah, Kirti, thank you for joining. Looking forward to learning more and kind of exploring how to kind of integrate you and connect with some different folks within the ecosystem. Alex posted that Hedera has an ecosystem week this week. They're very active in the sustainability space. I highly recommend that. Thank you for flagging. I will definitely check that out. Elizabeth said that there is a carbon offset retirement log for retail carbon credits and green tokens that are not securities, carbon trading standards such as mine. She has a link there for people to check out. Thanks again, Alex for the ecosystem week. That sounds fascinating. And with that, I think we will adjourn the meeting. So just to give everybody a heads up this our next scheduled meeting. Again, we have these meetings are scheduled every other Tuesday. Our next meeting is going to be canceled for the holidays. And I think that the next one will be, the next one will be, this will be the 10th, I believe, I believe it's the 10th. But definitely double check to make sure that I have it right on the calendar. And yeah, looking forward to meeting you all again next year. I will send out an email to everybody to let you know about the agenda and the focus of the meeting. And thank you all for joining in particular. Thank you very much Savita for that fantastic presentation. We all appreciate it. Thank you.