 All right, good evening, everyone. Welcome back to the second edition of GLUD, Political Theatres of Civil Rights, a fortnightly online platform presenting political theater from around the world, hosted by HowlRound Creative Theater Commons and Coordinated by Besna Theater. My name is Niko Volcari. I am a co-artist director and co-founder of Besna Theater, a British Romanian Political Theater Collective committed to using theater to investigate, expose and confront institutional and normalized violences. Thank you so much for joining us tonight for Sitara Ha The Stars, written and performed by Mandela Hashemi, directed by Leif Persson, music Mateus Peres, and costumes by Inge Halsrum Cinnabom from Vesterno Theater in Sweden. Thank you so much for your patience with our technical issues. We do apologize for the inconvenience and starting from tomorrow, you will be able to watch the live stream and tonight's discussion without any interruptions on both HowlRounds and Besna's website. So welcome everyone to the panel discussion for the third event of Bloods of the second edition. First, for tonight's discussion, we are joined by writer and performer of Sitara Ha, amongst other works, Manira Hashemi, sociologist, philosopher and writer, Asad Buda, and London based actor and activist, Shala Nix. Welcome and thank you for joining us. So Manira, I wanted to start with you a question. Could you tell us about the title of Sitara Ha The Stars and what is the meaning behind the title? I think it's interesting to investigate, expose and present the institution of the non-life illnesses. Thank you so much for joining us. Somebody has the link open, thank you. In your own time, Manira, please. Okay, hi everyone, thank you Niko. And I'm really happy and glad to be in this festival. Tell us how the stars is the story of many women which here in this play have been portrayed. Sorry, I can hear this sound. Can you feel it? Asad. It's interrupting. Asad, can you take down the video because we can hear it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was my... Okay, thank you. Thank you. Yes, thank you everyone. And thank you, Niko. Thank you from Besna Theater. Sitara The Stars is actually the story of many women but here in this particular play have been portrayed through three and that is Halema, Gulbegum and Sara. And for me, actually every story is a star and no matter how hard we, the women try, I mean we the women who are living in this religious, traditional and patriarchal context in societies to bring a kind of smallest change to our surroundings, to our society. But as long as we are ashamed of our experience of what has happened to us, to our body, our surrounding is going to remain the same and of course, that's going to be dark. In my belief, I think we need to tell our stories and we need countless stories to somehow eliminate our surroundings. And it is true telling and I emphasize that and it's true telling that we can understand the vastness of this darkness and that is where the name Sitara The Stars is coming from. Yeah, that I can say about Sitara The Stars and I think Asad also has some thought about it and I let it if he wants to join me in this but that's the idea behind Sitara The Stars encouraging everyone to tell their stories. Asad, is there anything you'd like to add to that before we move on? Yeah, first of all, I would like to leave who really directed this very strong play and the next play for Munira and maybe the third one also. So if we have this very strong narrative, very maybe sad narrative, it's because really Leif is a very he really helped Munira and to produce this narrative. Sitara is, as Munira told, it is mostly best of woman tradition which we call me and Munira calling that Shahzad tradition. It's best of one thousand and one night stories. The main character is Shahzad. Shahzad is telling to be alive. So saying is a key of life. So here is in this performance. So it's written in framework of storytelling which is very, very common in country like Afghanistan that the spoken language is the most strongest part of the culture. But it's also in this specific performance, Munira just focused on three part of history. 80, 80, 90, 80, 92, 293 and also the Mujahidin war in Afghanistan and when the Taliban came. So the main, the plot of this performance is narration, narrating of three genocide best of woman body. So the main either is when the genocide happened or maybe when something very bad thing happened in history. So what's happened to human and what's happened to women, to children and by what kind of medium we can express. So Munira used here woman body as a medium to tell something. So that's and the name of start also come because our history is very dark and it's very difficult to show what's really happened. It's difficult to show in 62% of people are killed. So and then the name of stars come to tell that, yes, the darkness is unlimited and infinitive. So we can just put some stars in the very dark space. But beyond, between the stars, there is many, many darkness that we really cannot express, maybe cannot understand. And also as if I just add something, it is true telling that we can say that we as human as women, we exist. If we cannot tell how, then we cannot exist also because we are not our story, our narrative is not part of the society. Thank you. That was, that's fantastic. And actually we're gonna move on to this idea later but I think it highlights a very key theme of tonight's discussion which is about the important, if you look at it from an artistic point of view, a political theater point of view, not just artistic, that this idea that stories or testimonies and parts of history that systems and people work towards and work very hard to hide and eradicate from history. The fact that the role of the political artist is to make sure that these stories aren't forgotten and just like the stars as you've beautifully put it shying through that type of darkness, that censorship or that patriarchal recreation and rewriting of history. On the back of that, I just wanted to ask you another question, Manira. Initially, when we got in touch with you for the second edition of GLUD, you were involved, we initially discussed that we would have a montage of extracts from a series of York over the years. And however, recently, you made the decision to actually just show Sitarahar the stars. And I just wondered why if you could explain to us a little bit and the audience why you made that decision. Yeah, actually, and we made that decision in the very last minutes and that was actually hard for me to make it. While I did want to show the works of these brave, young girls and boys that I've had the privilege to work with in Afghanistan, at the same time I realized the risks and dangers it may bring to their life. They have been part of my family and of course they will remain so therefore their security and safety is my priority, especially at this time with such a political climate we inhabit now, when we can't distinguish between the government, ISIS and Taliban, when the Taliban actually are expanding again their empire in this peace negotiation which is the ultimate political solution by the Western democratic capitalism. So as in 2001, Afghanistan was named the most dangerous country to be a woman. I'm afraid now after 20 years when we have arrived to such an escapable political impasse that is still a reality for many women who are either socially, culturally or politically engaged and active or not. So and since the core of most of my work I can say all of my work are about women, women narrative, stories and experiences of war and violence it can easily be misinterpreted by people who cannot see and cannot accept the call of art for political change. Therefore, as much as it pained me not to show these works but the thought that they can attend their social and professional life even if we can call it in a normal manner in the situation that is going on in Afghanistan that also comforts me. And I've always said in my speech, previous work or seminars that my students, my colleagues they have been the backbone of my works. And I am proud of them and I have talked about their courage, bravery, creativity and fight for a brighter and better future. And I can do that whenever I want but putting these videos in the internet I realized that it can bring a huge risk to the life which I was not accepting to do that. So that was the reason that I took it down but I hope that one day there is we can get this chance and opportunity to see these works because these girls which I had yeah, I have been working with they are not only fighters and also they are somehow the one who really felt the pain, the deep roof of our social issues and problems and they were not afraid to address them. So due to lots of prospects I have for them I took down this video or this best opportunity to show their works but I hope there is another chance in the future and maybe in that day their artistic work hopefully will not bring any danger to them. So until that day I will wait and hopefully the time comes soon. Thank you, Monira. I would like to add to that that I don't think it's in any shape or form or compromise. I mean, Satara Hai is a really staggering piece of work and beautifully sincere. I'd also like to point out at least from my knowledge of the situation you've worked in and what you shared with me that this highlights the fact that political theater I think the fact that it was a political act that you're showing your work and that the potential work of you showing work that involved the people that find themselves in more dangerous or vulnerable positions in Afghanistan at the moment. I think that is like hard evidence that political theater is still a necessary tool that can threaten the status quo and that actually it's beautifully inspiring to hear and this is why we're really honored to have you here tonight that the simple act, not the simple act, but the very sincere act of having, of telling testimonies and stories throughout history of people that have been oppressed and have been subjected to series of normalizing and institutionalized violences is a political act in itself. Very often in Glard's series one and two we've had discussions of whether like what is the role of political data today? And of course, it always depends on the context, but like for those who may be jaded by the power of political theater, this is an incredible example of actually how political theater can be and still is a very necessary, powerful tool to challenge violence. And so thank you so much for sharing that with us. On the back of that, I would like to then move my next question to both I'll start with you, Maneer and then move on to you Asad before we go on. Maneer, you were first involved, you were involved in the first ever production made and produced by women in Afghanistan, which to me, and I'm sure to everyone else is a historical and monumental moment, you know. And I was wondering whether we could start with you, Maneer, if you could tell us a little bit about your experience in Afghanistan and what made you move to Sweden. Yeah, a little bit about that, if you could start with that, please. Yeah, actually that was in 2006 when the first educational theater festival was held in Herat, west of Afghanistan. And my play, Cry of History, actually was not the only production which was produced entirely by women that year. There were 10 other groups of girls from different schools attended to that festival. But my group actually was the only which nominated to perform for a mixed audience while the rest of the festival was divided into girls or woman production for female audience and men production for a mixed audience. So by that time in 2006, I had already started my career as actor and I had directed some short films. But that was Cry of History, was my first try of writing and directing a play. And somehow it was then when I realized that the effect theater can have on its audience. So I decided to start the theater department within the companies in our film. And I think I was among the few lucky girls who had the privilege and support of the family, mainly my mother and my siblings. And I did not know at that time if I was going to do political theater, but as I was born into a very religious and traditional family, I also lived the injustice and inequalities, both as a woman and a refugee living in Iran and Pakistan. And I think it was my witness of women's situation, not only those women who were around me, but also the subjugation of women in our patriarchal society, which drove me towards political theater. And since then I was focusing on creating female lead and female-fronted productions with the hope to create a feminine, a woman narrative in a country which has been in decades of war and violence, but still we do not see this light as footprint of woman narrative. So through my work, I somehow came to understand the importance of narrative, the importance of telling which we as individual, either women or men could use it as a basic structure for knowing our self and our action, where narrative could act as a mean of constructing a kind of our sense of self. So the goal with my political works was always to demonstrate the relationship between the society's ideology and of course the action, but it also was a confrontation to our system and society that how we as individual or groups oppress one another and restrict one another from living fully. And since the core of my plays was to expose the social problems, domestic violence and the roots of these issues, which I do believe lies within the religious texts and books, of course it shocked the patriarchal system which have always defined women's and women's body and socio-political participation within a specific frame. And unfortunately, we, I mean, we the Afghan people, we are not used to hear from women. We are not used to hear about women's stories and experiences so naked, so frank without being polished by this cultural religious justification and this, their fine language. And no matter how one tries, the eye has no story of its own that is not also the story of a relation or set of relation to a set of norms as Judith Butler puts it. So my approach to women's narrative and stories was perceived as playing with fire just because I was as a woman, I took the courage to question the very institution causing women's suffering. And that was what brought me here to Sweden to exile but also coming to exile gave me a stronger voice. So though I somehow get really sad when I think, or when I, in the beginning, when I came to accept that I had to leave finally, I can't stay. Either it's a risk to me, to my family or to my students just because I cannot silence myself towards what I see in the society. So that was, I made this hard decision to come to Sweden but somehow I am now I'm happy and I'm grateful for the opportunities that I have been given here. This is the first time that I, when I did Sitar Hades stars that I was writing without censoring myself. I was performing without censoring myself. So somehow it was hard, but then you need to choose and I chose exile but also at the same time to be able to talk and to tell. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. Thank you so much. Asad, I'd like to direct a very similar question to you about your experience in Afghanistan and your journey to move to Sweden and the differences in the context of which you still work. Actually Afghanistan is a very strange country not for just for Afghan citizen for all people that are going in that country. So it's the maybe the capital of international violence in today and also the symbol of absurdity international politic absurdity also. So when I was in Afghanistan because my educational background is related to studying Islam I studied theology in Khome and then in the most religious city in Iran. So I was a mullah and then I also studied sociology in Tehran University and work in collective memory. So my work was the combination of theology and sociology. So when I returned back to the Kabul so the question was how to understand the city. So everybody, Munira told something about that as individual we have to narrate or to express. So I do believe that it's difficult to talk about individual and individuality in country like Afghanistan. So maybe there is no individual. So because this character is very modern but even as individual we express ourselves in the historical framework or maybe refigure the history in or talking and or discussion. So as, so my work was the combination of theology and sociology. So my question was what's the relationship between theology and the destroying of Kabul. So or maybe is it the Islamic theology is constructive theology or destructive. So talking about that was where it has very cost everybody knows about that. So and then like millions, millions of people I become