 Hello and welcome to the news click. Today we have with us advocate Rahul Chaudhary who is a lawyer in the National Green Tribunal He will be discussing with us the judgment NGT passed which banned all protests around the Jantha Mantar area and shifted the venue to Ramli Ramadan. So first of all What is your opinion on this judgment? Do you think the Call NGT made is the right one? See if you go into the technical aspect of the judgment like it is a violation of this Rules which has made for the noise and all then it's a different aspect altogether But if you see as a right because even in the environmental aspect the environmental rights Which are there which you have to protest and all then the right to protest kind of a taken away by the NGT order and that is that actually goes totally against your right of proper expression also and Raising the issue against the government altogether. So, so if you focusing on the environmental aspect of it like on the Noise pollution aspect of it which has been cited by the NGT as the main reason for banning these protests So the in the area in the Jantha Mantar area there are about 60 residents and it's not even completely residential area There are a lot of commercial buildings and everything but now when we talk about the Ramli Ramadan It is way more densely populated. So of course, there will be some sort like More impact over there. Then does it make sense to shift the venue to Ramli Ramadan? What would be the sort of impact which would happen to the citizens over there of the noise that is that is one issue But before that if you see If the issue is only of the noise pollution for example noise coming from the temple noise coming from other religious places Or from some other institution with the when they use a lord speaker that is also an issue Then you don't say that shift that religious place to some other place where there are no resident or something What direction could have been that you can keep the noise level to the level which is not violating the norms which are passed by the government now here no such steps or They could have on a temporary basis also could have passed such judgment or could have looked into the aspect that see that These are the noise decibel level which you cannot exceed and if protest there But you meet the guideline which is there the rules which provide like 65 decibels or 55 decibels Whatever the permissible level at that time and yes, and the rightly said by you like if you shift It's just a shifting this problem to other part of this city to and from this resident where One can say is if the person living near the Jantar Mantar can be affluent to the some Other person who is not that affluent in that area because in the Lam Lila Medan area also the same problem because you have not gone into the issue of Controlling that noise pollution rather you have just shifted the burden to some other person who would be living in around the area of the Ram Lila Medan and also so the You the Jantar Mantar area it's very close to the parliament and it's in Lutin's deli So it holds strategic importance as well for protesters because they get to be close to the parliament So they are more the thing that it's more likely that the voices will be heard by the government Now if you're shifting it to Ram Lila Medan, which is so far from all these government offices Then isn't this a way of basically sort of silencing these voices and taking them away from the public view see this is For example, if someone is protesting near the Jantar Mantar, it's not that you saved him from the outskirt of Delhi Even Ram Lila Medan, why don't then you shift in the outskirt of Delhi if it is not just a protest as a symbol man because The protest location as a Jantar Mantar is a power center so the if Narmada Bacha Aandolan who are affected by the one of the environmental issue and if they are coming there So and they become the victim again like you cannot raise the issue where you can be heard Rather than shifting to Ram Lila Medan You say that you go and give some place in the parliament only Because the voice which has to be heard why you are giving them the land which is more further than the Center of the power you bring them closer to them if if the person is so aggrieved and they have to protest Give them some space closer to the power center area where they can be heard and also They are far closer and then it will not be the issue of the person who are living in surrounding area of the Jantar Mantar who are affected by that This is seems to be following a trend basically even in other cities of India Like I think in Hyderabad also and in a couple of other cities also these areas of descent areas where people can voice their opinions They are being restricted and now this is happening in Delhi too. So what how do people now protest? What do they do? How do they raise their voices? See one is this other when we This is this order is been passed taking cover of the environmental aspect Yeah, and when you talk about the everything there is a one concept called the environmental democracy And nothing now in the democracy what would be the environmental democracy that you make a person part of the decision-making process or If the person is aggrieved by your any decision-making process, then you can have right to further raise his voice Now rightly said Raising his voice then one is the going to the court But the another is like the traditionally which we have seen from many years that directly approaching the Persons who had the decision-makers to approach them and then put their grievances Now practically it is not possible that you go in the parliament and then raise your voice or go to the Ministry of Environment Raise your voice. So that is the close center where you can assemble and other parts like in the many places where these power centers are those Places are actually very influential area means affluent persons are living and over the period when that They think that they are making us some kind of nuisance for them or you can say that they are causing a property Value also going down because of all this So there may be some kind of resentment or which has been suppressed by the government So it's certainly happening not only the Delhi may be the one of this recent Means can the victim of all this operation which has been taken over by the government in not only in the state Even if you see like this when this government came to the power and then all this online thing Which has been started that whoever is writing something and then police action is being taken against them So he started right from there where this government the temperament of the government is to stop any kind of dissent See one thing is I cannot say because this the government and the police they were not in favor of I think Relocating or shifting because they were saying they have given the permission Because earlier it was somewhere else and because of the security reason that new place was given sometime back It was in somewhere in both club and then the protest ground has been shifted because of the security reason now motivated by politics that Means that one cannot say that whether it was the judgment was motivated by the politicals, but overall one can say that the judgment which has misjudged the Issue with respect to where the people can protest and where the power center is located But still I mean if we just look at the residents of the Jantha Manthar area It's definitely true that they are facing some issues because of all the constant protests that go on They are facing noise that they have to listen to like really loudspeakers sometimes and then traffic issues all of that It happens to them But then what is a more reasonable compromise that we can come to because a blanket ban on protests in the Jantha Manthar It does not seem to be a very good solution especially because it's not really dealing with the Problem in a proper manner then what do you think should have been done instead or can be done instead? see one thing as I said earlier also that they could have gone into a Kind of thing controlling the noise level. I think that has also been or like there is some regulation Which is that but now that when you have already has been shifted the direction is to shift the venue now in that venue Only they could have said that Even if you are using the amplifier It should be within the permissible limit of the noise pollution like this and then person who was sleeping on sleeping in Jantha Manthar or this Litering of garbage and everything so these are the things which can be regulated and it's not that you only have to stop this and Then shift everything to the some other places because now they are saying the Ramleela Madan But government may say it's not possible Ramleela Madan you go somewhere else. Yeah, and also that now we know that Even to protest in Ramleela Madan You have to book the area and the cost of that is 50,000 rupees per day then now if there are farmers who are coming from Tamil Nadu to protest How can they do it? I mean they're protesting because they don't have money to feed themselves How can they be expected to pay 50,000 rupees a day just to make the voices heard that is that is one aspect and another is that means you don't want anyone to hear because now from this you have and the person living there should also why they should then suffer if the The logic is that they are creating noise pollution by use of amplifier and everything and then other issues which are concerned Then it's not that the Ramleela Madan is the open area where there no one is living surrounding that area That area is also habitated and then the loss of people were living there So they would be affected by that also if you apply that logic with respect to this noise pollution Which is being caused. Thank you Raul sir for your time and thank you for watching this click