 Okay, welcome back to theCUBE. This is Silicon Angles, theCUBE, our flagship program. We're going to go out to the events. It starts as soon as from the noise. I'm John Furrier. Joe Miniman, this segment with PJ Menon from PG. PG, sorry, from Brocade. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you. Yeah, John's usually PG-13, but we'll keep this up. We'll keep this up. PJ, it's late in the day. We're here for exclusive EMC World coverage. We had you guys highlighting all day today. So one of the big themes is obviously enterprise and cloud, right? And the word trust is kind of thrown in there. And one of the things we've been hearing is I want to trust my own stuff. So we saw a huge interest from CIOs saying, hey, you know what? I see cloud coming, but I want to do my own thing with it. I want to create layers. I want to build in some IP. So OpenStack has become a very popular product because of that. And the hope, like a warm blanket that I could give them some hope. So what's your take on OpenStack? Yeah, I think OpenStack is a great platform for cloud computing, where the cloud is headed. One of the things that people miss in today's data centers is that you have several silos. You have a silo for networking, you have a silo for storage, and you have a silo for compute. OpenStack is a single platform from which you can manage all three sets of resources, no more silos, because cloud is all about the data center resource, not about silos. When people want to manage their cloud, they don't look at compute separately or storage separately. They look at a data center application or a data center service rather than these individual resource silos. So OpenStack is going a long way in being able to fulfill that dream where you can manage the entire data center as a pool of resources rather than silos. Great. So PG, if you work in the emerging technologies group at Brocade, all the buzz is SDN, but the term's kind of a broad umbrella, and there's also a few pieces. There's software find networking, there's in this service provider telco space, there's something called, I believe it's network function virtualization or NFV, and then there's network virtualization, which Nacira talked a lot about. Can you kind of give us a Brocade viewpoint, your view as to what are those, how do they differentiate, how do they fit together? All of these pieces have one goal in mind, which is to make the life of a data center manager a lot easier. So let me break it down into the different pieces. Software defined networking, the term was coined to associate abstraction, pooling, and automation. That was where software defined, anything software defined was coined. Now there are many pieces that goes into creating an automated data center. So when you take software for networking, it is about pooling and managing it as a single set of resource. There are many other functions that go along with it, things like network functions virtualization. So network functions virtualization is a term that's coined to virtualize certain network functions so you can manage it in a pooled, automated manner. Any function that was traditionally handled by bespoke hardware can now be virtualized and run on an x86 machine. And by doing that, you have created a lot of flexibility for the user. You can create a function, you can expand a function, you can contract a function and you can terminate it, all through software. So it fits into software defined networking in a manner that makes everybody's life easier. Now network virtualization is something slightly different. Network virtualization is where you can create pooled resources on a per-tenant basis, on a per-customer basis. So this too adds to being able to manage your data center functions in an automated pooled fashion. So these different pieces fit in quite well. Are you saying that SDN and network virtualization are two different things? SDN and network virtualization and network function virtualization are two different things. Are three different things. Because SDN has set out its goal to abstract the underlying resources and make it into a pooled set of resources that can be managed entirely in software. Network virtualization is one aspect of it where you can abstract the network and be able to give it a multi-tenant flavor per customer. Network functions virtualization is about all of the services in the network such as firewalls and de-packed inspection. That too can be abstracted and managed by software. So what do you think about what the Nacera deal did to the marketplace? Because we were talking at the technology day we had at BrokeGate in September that in our previous conversations at the EMC world, just going back three years with BrokeGate, we've had some of the Ethernet fabric, blah, blah, blah. And also, boom, the network virtualization market transitioned quickly to sub-define networking. Now it's sub-define data center and that really lands on your doorstep. And the sub-define data center is essentially industry jargon for operating system. So what's your take on all that? Yeah, the take is, I think the best way is to give you an analogy about server virtualization. When you look at VMs, virtual machines, they don't run on thin air. There has to be an X86 machine to run a VM or a set of VMs. So similarly, when you have network virtualization or network functions virtualization, there has to be an underlying hardware on which all of these functions have to run on. And that's where our Ethernet fabric comes in. We want to provide the foundation on which you can ride all the software-defined functions. And that is really where the Ethernet fabric comes in. It is the de facto underlay, if you will, for all the overlay technologies. So PG, you know, one of the places where the analogy falls down between kind of server virtualization and network virtualization is server virtualization at the beginning was really easy. I'm going to put in that hypervisor layer and it's just going to allow me to consolidate a bunch of hardware, get rid of a bunch of things. So there was a real easy business case. Talk us through a little bit while it's going through SDN because I don't get rid of any ports. I maybe, you know, hopefully simplify some of my environments and can automate it, but it's a little bit harder story. And one of the things about networking is it's a complicated thing. I mean, you know, we haven't thrown out usually a lot of acronyms in this space and overlays and so many different pieces. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. Networking has been overly complicated over the years. Server virtualization made it easy for people to manage servers and software-defined networking, network functions, virtualization and overlay network virtualizations. These are all steps in the direction where we can make networks far easier and similar to server virtualization. So when you look at what goes on with server virtualization, you don't have to run a routing protocol anymore to, or you don't have to run any protocol as a matter of fact, to manage virtual machines. You can programmatically create virtual machines, expand them, contract them and terminate them. In a similar manner, what software-defined networking is hoping to achieve is to create that abstraction very much like a hypervisor layer, create a set of abstractions for the networking layer and be able to manipulate it directly without having to run routing protocols or any of the other complex structures that has given networking the term that, hey, in order to manage a network, you've got to find that guy with that ponytail. The whole idea is to be able to manage networking in a much simpler way. So let's drill in a little bit about on that simplicity. So Brocade's involved in SDN. You've got the Viata acquisition. You're involved in OpenStack, Open Daylight. Some of these open initiatives, where does Brocade add their differentiation and how is Brocade looking to really simplify that data center network going forward? Yeah, Brocade's focus is the infrastructure. The infrastructure has to be there for any of the software-defined virtual stuff to run on. So we are focusing on creating that basic infrastructure that is there. When you look at our ethernet fabric, it's self-forming, self-healing and isotropic. By isotropic, I mean, no matter where you are, it feels the same. And that's absolutely necessary for software-defined networking. No matter where you are, it should feel the same. You should be able to add virtual resources on top, expand them, contract them and take them away. The second thing that we want to do, all the customers that we talk to, they want us to provide that end-to-end solution. They want us to be able to shepherd them through the gates of software-defined networking. So you will see us talk about the infrastructure. You will see us talk about network functions, virtualization, such as Viata. You will also see us talk about controllers and applications because these are the different pieces that together form a complete solution for software-defined networking. So NFV, where are we with that standard in the products? And you said Viata fits into that. Can a customer go buy this solution today, or what's the roadmap for this? The customer can absolutely buy a Viata-based software out of today. Okay, but how does that fit with NFV? So when you look at a customer and he's looking at a bunch of network functions, a virtual router is one of those functions. So where it fits in is very simple. Today, if you go to a cloud provider and ask for 30 VMs, the cloud provider will give you 30 VMs, but you'll have to put them all in the same VLAN. There is no routing. If you put a Viata, now the customer can take his 30 VMs and put 15 on one subnet and 15 on another subnet and suddenly he's got a layer three network all in the cloud based on software. He doesn't have to call anyone. He doesn't have to set up VLANs. So that's basically on-demand networking. Absolutely. It's the on-demand data center vision that Jason Nolette and our CEO, Lloyd Carney, have been talking about. So obviously we're doing a brocade spotlight here at the EMC world, a very relevant technology given your relationship with EMC. But we had someone from Cisco run up to theCUBE, almost crashed into theCUBE saying, oh, Cisco has all better. So how do you compare versus competition? I mean, Cisco had a chance to come on theCUBE, but we're booked and we'd love to have them if we can make some room on it. But to give them a chance and just, I'll say, for Cisco, what do you say to those guys and the competition? Yeah, so competition, whenever there's an opportunity there's going to be competition. Cisco has been around for a while. They have perfectly great products, but the question is, they have so many different ways. They have three different directions when it comes to software to find networking and I'm not going to the details of everything that they do, but what customers want is a clear direction in terms of where does network functions virtualization fit in? Where does SDN fit in? Where does the infrastructure fit in? And I think we have a much clearer answer to all these questions than our competition. And just to, I'll put it out to the audience, obviously we're here in theCUBE and theCUBE extracts a signal from the noise. So to respond to all our friends at Cisco who didn't respond when we asked people to come on the guest on theCUBE. So that's your chance. But the crowd will keep you guys safe. But to be fair to you guys, Brocade is not making outrageous claims. You guys are saying, we're focused. Your focus is here. Cisco has got multiple fronts open. Right, right. Yeah, Cisco has a much larger scope in terms of what they have to deal with and therefore they're pulled in many different directions. For us it's a lot easier to focus in one direction and give a clearer picture to our customers. So PG, the acquisition of Viada, I believe closed four or five months ago. Can you talk about how that's now fitting in with the rest of the Brocade portfolio? Yes, we are, certainly the Viada folks are off as a separate group, driving towards network functions virtualization and the realization of the value there. We as a company are including that as part of our SDN strategy. Viada and network functions virtualization is absolutely a core element of our SDN strategy and that fits in with Ethernet Fabric with our efforts in SDN controller, with our efforts in SDN applications as well as OpenStack. I think between OpenStack as a platform, network functions virtualization, our Ethernet Fabric, we have a clear direction on what is part of the infrastructure, what is part of virtualization and what is part of SDN. Yeah, can we talk a little bit about those SDN applications? Because really we feel that's where a lot of the true business value and transformational kind of next generation of networking can come from. Brocade focused on the infrastructure, so how do you guys help drive that next generation of virtual applications? Absolutely, and I'll give you an example that involves storage. If you think about an application where a replication application or a backup application, that is a great SDN application where someone can create an application that is based on business logic that says after a certain number of files have been changed or not changed over a period of three months, move them to a different part of storage. So these are applications that tie all the different silos in one and make use of the controller to create a network on the fly and make these application applications function in the network without someone having to manually examine the files, manually decide to replicate and make it error prone. So final question I have for you in the cube here to kind of end the segment and as we get to our wrap up of day one of our exclusive three day coverage is what's next? I mean obviously emerging markets means you've got to look around the corner and we heard from a guest earlier that sometimes people driving too fast will see a tree in the middle of the road, that's security, or other complex requirements that a lot of enterprise have. So what's next for you? I think the next thing for us is to what's immediately follow software-defined networking and software-defined storage for that matter is how does the software-defined networking software-defined storage in a play? Because once again, we cannot look at these as silos. They are software-defined, they are automated, they are abstracted and they are pooled. Now the question is how do these silos communicate with each other? And that hasn't been explored in recent times so that'll be the next step for in the world of software-defined everything. Yeah, so that was John's last question. I have one more for you too. If we look at some of these kind of real advancements in SDN and NFV, they're starting in the service provider market, but that's really usually if somewhere 20, 30% of the overall market, where do you see this technology moving into the enterprise or will the enterprise just move to the cloud to be able to adopt those type of technologies? I think there'll be a little bit of both. Certainly enterprises are moving to the cloud in areas where they want, as you had mentioned in one of the earlier segments, that some enterprises don't want to be bothered with managing IT and they can move to the cloud. But there are certain aspects of IT that will absolutely remain with the enterprise. It'll absolutely remain with the enterprise because it's the data that's valuable to them and it's part of their core business. So that part will not move. The adoption of cloud, of all the adoption of cloud, they will depend on vendors like Brocade to make it complete and that is really our opportunity going forward in cloud computing. PG, thanks for coming on Side the Cube. It's great to get the emerging folks on who know, kind of in the weeds details, but also understand the big picture on the business side and the transformation message in the data centers. They are software-based, software-led as we say on Wikibon team. Thanks for coming inside theCUBE. We'll be right back with our wrap up for day one here inside theCUBE for our exclusive SiliconANGLE Wikibon coverage of EMC World. We'll be right back after the short break. This is SiliconANGLE, we'll keep on theCUBE. Thank you.