 Mae'n gwneud i chi. Mae'n gwneud i'n rai gwaith mewn platformau social media i ddim yn ychydig i chi'n gwneud y gesodau deithasol ac mae'n gynnwys i'ch ddweud rwy'n gweithio'r gweithio'r ddwyfyn ac mae'n dweud i gweithio'r ddwyfyn ac mae'n gweithio'r ddwyfyn ac mae'n gweithio'r ddwyfyn o ran mae'n gweithio'r gweithio. Mae'n fydd yn y gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio. Hefyd, Carethor. Mae'n gweithio. Rwy'n gweithio. Rwy'n gweithio, Kev. Rwy'n gweithio. Rwy'n gweithio? Rwy'n gweithio, yn ymgylchol amdannu'n sicr o'r perff鼎, erbyn'n byw, yn unig. Rwy'n gweithio am gweithio am ymgylchol, oedd yr aelodau cyfrifiadau cystigol, oedd o'r Aldr Albury, am hyn, yw ychydig i'r pastur, yw hyn sy'n ddweud ond, a'r ydych chi'n mynd i'r ddweud, rwy'n gweithio ar hyn, I'm not, I don't care your religion, your race, if it works for you and you're not harming people, I'm all for it. But from your story, not a story of redemption, but from what you've been through and to then help people, but I actually met you through a good friend of mine, Luke, who I'd actually met in my bath 15 years ago when we were working there and I don't know what I always thought about Luke, he was always in my mind. Now he says, where is he? I say, another, couldn't remember his second name. And then last year he reached out to me, went to his wedding. Amazing, met amazing people, great night, met yourself, you were telling me your story, I was telling you mine. And we connected and then you reached out just a couple of weeks ago again and now you're well brother. Yeah, I don't think it was a coincidence with the timing and stuff like that as well, you know. Because when I called you, you said that you'd been a couple of days before that had been thinking about me and stuff and thinking about doing a podcast and stuff. I think that was a good incident. So I think that even Luke meeting you, it was all meant to be, you know what I mean? This is what I believe in, you know what I mean? Life works in mysterious ways, as the sake of it's just life. We're all battling through some sort of madness. Like I say, everybody is different. We're supposed to actually do a podcast with Tony Argent, who's a convicted murderer, has tried to change his life so he's been the convicted murderer and the pastor, the two, he's sitting together but he's got his dates mixed up. But it's a good time to get your story told and then we're getting Tony on next week so the two's will still do it anyway, which I think is going to be phenomenal. I always go back to the start, I guess, where you grew up and how it all began. I grew up in Laytonstone. I was there till I was about 20 years old. Pretty normal life, really. My parents, some people are going through different things and ended up in prison and stuff. I've got some horror stories, but mine weren't really a horror story. I did always have a feeling that, not putting this on my parents, but I did always have a feeling that maybe I weren't good enough and things like that. I suffered a little bit with rejection and stuff. As I got older, I'd quite often, in my younger days, I'm talking about from infant school, I was quite an easy-going person. I had quite a soft nature and stuff and because of that, quite often, people, other kids would come and want to start with me and start a fight with me. So from infant school was the first time and then I'd end up reacting to it and it kind of just went from there, really. I was quite a bit of violence and stuff like that. Not maybe some of your guests have had, but I'd started off with that sort of stuff. As I got older, I felt I'm not really going to make nothing for myself unless I take what I want. Unless I can't get it the wrong way really because I didn't really have a lot of confidence in myself to make it through working and stuff. That started my journey from really young age, probably 16 or 17. I had it in my mind, I wanted to do arm robberies. That was what I had in my head. There were different incidences where I nearly went and done it. There was a boy up in Lathenstone who was 18 at the time and he said, I've got this imitation gun. I said, lovely, let's get it and this gun do sank. I was just really determined and that's what I was going to do. So we went to his house and he went in and he had second thoughts about it and he's come out and said, I've got to go somewhere with my family. He said, maybe we won't do it. Another time he said, I said, no problem. It kind of went on. There was a few different scenarios where I nearly got involved in things and one time outside a building society in Stratford we was going to go and rob the place and we'd had it all planned. We called ourselves the lazy gang. If I whined back a little bit, what would happen was my mate Joey and another guy, Yos, we kind of come into the scene a little bit after. Didn't want to get involved in all that. So what we'd do was say, right, for some reason we had it in our brain. We didn't really know what we was doing. It was about 20 years old, 21 at the time. We was like, yeah, we rob a building society. The best time to catch it is in the morning. This is without our thinking at the time. So we'd say, right, what we'd do is we'd set our alarm, we'd get up early because we was sleeping until afternoon at the time and every time we'd end up sleeping for our alarm and we'd go, ah, we've missed it, it's too late to go and do it now. And this went on for ages, you know. So we called ourselves the lazy gang, you know. And then my codiff who ended up becoming my codiff and it was my best mate Joey, him and Yos ended up going to do different things and I kind of missed my timing with it at that time. And then later on we, you know, I'd progressed from puffing a bit of ash or weed at the time when I was 15 to I started getting into the raves and stuff like that. You know, when I was 20 years old, I went to my first rave. Started taking pills on my 21st birthday and then after that I progressed a bit and started taking a bit of coke. Not nothing serious, but I started taking a little bit of coke. But when you're puffing, you don't want to work. Like, well, I didn't. Some people can, but I... I was lazy when I smoked green. I was lazy anyway, but the green just made this 10 things. Yeah, same. I was a bit lazy, really. I didn't really want to work and stuff, you know. And so I was puffing and I thought, you know what, I don't want to go out. You know, I don't really want to go work and trying to look for an easy touch and stuff, you know. So, yeah, we've ended up... Now, I tell people, they say, what was you in prison for? I say, oh yeah, like I kind of... I don't know, I'm robbery, you know. Because it sounds better because I was really ashamed of what I actually done, you know. But my co-defendant had come to me, Joe. He said, look, I've got this job to do, like someone's house, like, you know, and they've got this safe and he's got 30 grand. And at the time we're like 30 grand, like, you know, we're going to be set when that... I mean, it lasted about two minutes, but we're like, yeah, that sort was right at, you know. And he said, so, yeah, this is what we plan to do, going to this guy's house and take this money. Long story short, there weren't no 30 grand there. We ended up leaving empty-handed, you know. And then got stopped by the police on the way home, done a random check, found us, they nixed us for going equipped and released us. We thought, I've got a way of it. The next morning, obviously, the guys reported it. They put turned two together because we was in the same sort of area. And then come for our door, mine and my two co-defendants, and our police come through there and arrested us. And now we're off to prison, like, you know. I hadn't really gotten a lot of... You know, I've done a lot wrong really before that. I had a couple of little minor things, you know. Like there was someone that stole a motorbike, a little moped thing. And we found it dumped with a key in it. So we took it and had a little go on it. And then I got caught for that. And another thing I'd done when I was younger, I was about 15, again trying to fit in. There was a co-op, yeah, with eggs and bacon. And they used to do all the quality... What are they called? Family thingy biscuit tins or whatever they was called, you know. And, you know, these Swiss rolled cakes and all this. And so I used to go in there, and, like, we'd say, what shall we do tonight? I'd say, let's have an egg fight. I've got no eggs. No problem, I'll go and get some. And then I'd break into this... Go through the hole in the fence, you know, climb through the wall and stuff, and just get a load of eggs. You know, silly things really, all cakes and biscuits and stuff. Just trying to fit in, you know. And I'd done all this, like, so I got caught for that in the end. And then anyway, moving forward now, I've gone... I've got thumb for this arm robbery. Oh, sorry. I aggravated arm robbery. And then, yeah, we ended up... When we was on remand, my co-defendant, he said to me, I'm getting back into the Bible on that. You know, I'm back sort of following Jesus. And I said, what? Like, you know, he said, yeah, yeah, he said... When I was a bit younger, I was 18, he said I was on the streets preaching the Gospel, like, you know. He said then I met a couple of birds and I kind of got led astray and I sort of blew it all out, like, you know. He said, but I'm getting back reading the Bible again, you know. So it was 23 hours a day, bang up and jumped to prison, like, you know. So I thought, OK, no problem. So he started telling me about it each day and it got me interest. I started reading the Bible and loved it. You know, because it's actually, even if you don't believe in it, it's actually got some good stories in it, you know. And then I started going to the prison library. I was getting different books at, like, crossing a switchblade and them sort of books, you know, and about gangsters and stuff that had become Christians and, you know, got saved radically or whatever. And so this is what I started doing. I started getting right into it and I got the vicar to come to my room and he prayed for me and I'd done what's called the prayer of salvation, which is inviting Jesus into my heart. That was all good, but I was still puffing, you see. So the whole time I was getting puffs smuggled into the prison and stuff, I was still puffing and didn't really have a proper relationship. I had no one to guide me on nothing like that with it, but I didn't really know what I should do apart from read the Bible, you know. And so I ended up getting sentenced. We got four years, let's say it's the first time in prison. We got sent to a place, or I got sent to a place called Hypoint and I went in there and now sent me open. You got backgammon, table tennis and I thought, here we go, you know, and then I just forgot about God, you know. And so when I come out of prison, I've done just under two years, when I come out of prison, I thought, you know what? I'm going to go back to, I used to work for Dynarod before prison, you know. I didn't really want to work. Dynarod, like a drainage company, you know. So, yeah, you saw him block drains and camera surveys and that type of thing. Yeah, yeah, good, I loved it, believe it or not. I loved it. I must have been a pig in me previous life. Not that you could have a previous life, but anyway. Right, so yeah, this is what I've done, right. And yeah, I loved it, you know. And so I've went back to doing that, yeah. I lasted for a few years, so I was about 28 and I kind of thought, ah, you know what? I started, I was still puffing. I started to sell a bit of puff on the side just to pay for my puff to start with, you know. And then I started to earn a bit more money out of it and it just continued, you know. So I thought, I'll buy a bit more and before I know it, I'm earning quite good money out of it. And then someone come along there, these fake 50-pound notes, you know. And he said, I never got these blinders. Like there was absolutely identical to the real thing, right, you know. So I started selling them. And before I knew it, I was making more money than what I could with the wages. And like I say, I was puffing and I was lazy anyway and didn't really want to work. So I thought, might as well go full-time crime. And I just give up a really good job actually and continued selling drugs. It kind of progressed from there, you know. I started, you know, taking more drugs myself, ease and coke and stuff like that. And then I thought, you know what, I might as well start selling it, you know. So at the time, there was a place, I don't know if I should mention the place, but I shut down there anyway, called the Ekman Forest Country Club, which is quite a famous place in Essex, in Chigwall. But it was kind of like people come from miles all round from London and all that to go there, you know. So I started selling a few pills in there. No one else was in there at the time. I was like the only one, you know. And this place is a bit of it called the Jungle. Like three clubs on a private bit of land, you know. And so I started selling these pills in there and I was flying. I couldn't get enough. As quick as I had them, they'd sell out, you know. So what I'd done was I thought, OK, a few people started showing interest. There was more dealers coming in there, but I weren't one of them dealers that would say, you can't be on my turf and all that sort of stuff, you know. I mean, I'd just let everyone get on with what they're doing in our business, you know. But in the end, I had like four or five guys working for me and then they had guys working for them. And so we was kind of pretty much dominating the club. And the bansers, we didn't have to pay the bansers. They left us alone, like knew what we was doing, but just left us alone and stuff in there. And so, yes, what I was doing, making really good money, like, you know. Could have all the holidays and, you know, all the nice clothes and have me little cafe latte and me panini in the afternoon at me days are full, you know. But I'll be honest with you all. I never really had peace. I never really had peace, yeah. It seemed nice from the outside, like, money's to do what I want. It's all the designer gear and all the rest of it, but I never really had peace in my heart. Why do you think that was? Well, two things, really. I was never happy about what I'd done anyway. I felt quite embarrassed about what I'd done, like, you know. It wasn't, you know, thank you for putting your CV, like, you know what I mean. But I think the other thing is, when me and my wife, I've got the most amazing wife, Zoe, like, Yeah, I love you, babe. She's absolutely changed my life as well as Jesus has, yeah. How was your relationships prior to that? Did you have any? Yeah, I had relationships, yeah. Didn't really last that long, really. You know, six months or three months. Maybe I had one probably lasted about a year, was the longest, really. Is that because you were still battling your own demons yourself? Yeah, I think I had, yeah, my own issues and stuff, and I just, I just don't know, I'd never seem to be happy, you know what I mean, and, you know, sometimes they weren't happy and got rid of me, but quite often I just weren't happy, you know what I mean, for whatever reason, and I'd want to move on to pastures green and stuff, you know. So, when you met Zoe, what age were you then? Yeah, when I met Zoe, I was still with Diana when I was 28 at the time, and I met her through my younger brother, Tom, and so, yeah, I met her through him, and I just kind of met her a couple of times, and with another crowd of girls and stuff, they'd come round my house, and, you know, obviously, by this point I'd started selling drugs and stuff, and, you know, so some of the girls would come round, and, you know, we'd become, like, fairly good friends, but not right super close, you know. What are you popular? Well, you know what, this is the thing, you know, like a lot of what I was doing, really, when I was selling drugs and stuff, it made me seem like I was popular, you know. If I cracked open a bottle of champagne, I'd say to, it was my girlfriend at the time, Zoe, I'd say to, Blimey, there's only three of us that come out, all of a sudden there's ten of us that come out, you know. Everybody be, oh, how's it going, Kev, you know, and I'd give everyone champagne. I had all this money, and all I was doing, really, was quite often back to my ass after giving everyone all the drugs for nothing and giving them a champagne, and, you know what I mean, kind of like trying to buy love, really, a little bit, I think, you know, and trying to, a little bit buy, I had one or two friends around me, but I did kind of feel that I was kind of buying friends, you know. And so, yeah, we, to start with, Zoe, one day she said to me, she killed me for telling this story, one day she said to me, oh, you know what, she had really bad OCD and stuff, you know, and she said to me, oh, like, oh, I'll come round and do your cleaning, like, and I said, oh, all right, yeah, no problem. She'd come round pretty early, still, like, by the night time, she was still there cleaning, you know, and I said to her, look, you know, you don't have to go home if you like, you know what I mean, if you like, you can stay, I said, no funny business, you know what I mean, like, I said, oh, honestly, you know what I mean, I said, no funny business, you know what I mean, you can come, you can stay, you know, if you want, you can take the bed, I'll sleep on the armchair or whatever, you know. And so, that was for the night, I said, and she kind of, that was it, she never left, like, she just moved in kind of thing after that, you know. Yeah, whipping together about 27 years now, yeah. Hopefully you're making graduations. I'm looking at your past 27 minutes. Yeah, well, you know what, maybe the right one ain't come along, you see, you know, so this is what happened there, you know, she certainly was the right one for me, you know. So we used to have a bit of a drinking problem, you know, and I used to have a problem with Coke, you know, I'd be standing there, maybe four or five mates and stuff, and we'd be all talking, and Zoe'd be there in the crowd, and we'd be talking, and all of a sudden I'd say to one of my mates, are you taking a piss like? And they say, what are you on about? You're trying to chat my misses up in front of my face like, you know, it's like getting paranoid, you know. And they say, Kev, don't be like that, you know, like, what are you talking about, I won't do that to you. And then I'd say to like Zoe, my girlfriend at the time, say, Kev, honestly, you really weren't doing that, honestly. You know, and so in the end, I'd still think it other times, but I'd just say to her, I wouldn't embarrass myself anymore in front of my friends, I'd just say to her, was he just trying to chat you up? Is he taking a mick like, you know, and she'd say, no, babe, honestly, you know. So I realised I had a problem with Coke and I wasn't using the drug no more, it was using me, you know. And so I decided that I was going to give up Coke. She had a bit of a problem with alcohol, with spirits and stuff, you know, and sometimes I had a bottle up on top of the kitchen unit and things like that, you know. So both of us said, all right, well, she'll give up the drink, I'll give up the Coke, you know, and we'll do it together, you know. And that's how we've done it, you know. And so, yes. Did you go to meetings? No, no, I never done meetings. I suppose there must have existed back then, but I hadn't really heard of them then, you know. I've just done it, you know. I think I have got quite good willpower for things, you know, because I've stopped a lot of things in my life, you know. But I carried on taking pills, I carried on taking speed and ketamine and things like that, you know. So you stopped Coke, but you took everything else? Yeah, but I kind of felt that I never had a problem with the other bits, you know what I mean. Because you're just doing that more on weekends or not every day? No, no, no, I was serving up, you know. And so I was at sort of, I don't know, six nights a week normally out selling drugs, you know what I mean. I normally try and have one night off, but I was at all the, I've done the circuit, you know what I mean. Mary Chan's in Walthamstow and that and, you know, faces, a nightclub and Gansil. It's the little triangle. Yeah, in a country club, I was there, you know, twice a week, even for his country club. And so this is what I've done, you know. But when my wife, that we was only together about three months, like she always says, oh, you know, like when I was taking the drugs and stuff, I think he cancelled out the pill. I said, no babe, no babe, you was nutted all the time. Like it was up for three days at a time sometimes, you know. On a Friday to Monday afternoon, we'd end up going to bed, you know. And I said, no babe, you was nutted and I think you just forgot to take it. That's the reason. So she ended up falling pregnant pretty quick and we said, what are we going to do? She said, what should we do like, you know what I mean. And I said, well, Sank was in me to say, I never really, look, I'm not criticising anyone who has done it. I know it's quite a thing now that people do, but me personally, I always thought, I didn't want to go through abortions and things. I don't know, Sanky me didn't want to do it like, you know. And so I said, well, let's just have it like, you know, let's just have the baby and just see what happens like, you know. So we were still pretty, yeah, to start off with, maybe I skipped the story, I didn't know, because to start off with, we was like, the first like, I don't know, six weeks or something. We literally were going there under when, just cuddle and go to sleep, like friends, you know what I mean. And that's how it was, but obviously. I've tried to be respectful of you. I've tried to be respectful. But we honestly was to start with, right? I'm not going to believe that. People are going to watch you think you're lying. No, no, God is my witness. But then one day, obviously, you know, obviously things can happen and they happened, you know. It's nice if you're partying, man, things. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of your bearings as well, don't you? It's just kind of go with the flow. And then boom, chap at the door. And this is what happened, right? So, so yeah, we kind of ended into this relationship and stuff. And it was, you know, it's mad because before we knew it, she was pregnant and that. And then she, so we stopped, obviously soon she found out she stopped drugs straight away, you know. I carried on because I was out selling. There weren't going out as much, but I was still out quite a bit to earn me money. Then about a month before she had my elder scholar, I said, like, that's it. I'm giving up all the other stuff, you know, because I just didn't feel right to be taking drugs and to be a dad. And I didn't want to be impatient with a baby and things like that. So I just knocked everything on the headlight, you know. So that was, yeah, that was quite a challenge, you know, to be selling drugs still. Now I'm thinking, ah, this ain't right. You're selling drugs before I could justify it because I was taking them. It was okay. But now I'm not taking them no more. And I didn't feel, so I weren't happy about what I was doing to begin with. And now I'm feeling even worse because I'm feeling you're poisoning everyone else, but you're not taking it yourself, you know. And so that kind of weighed quite heavy on me. I still carried on doing it, you know. And what had happened was I'd say to my mrs. that the devil is definitely on my case because I come out with some stuff now again. She's like, where are you getting? So I told her about how I got saved in prison and, you know, I come away from it. But I knew the Bible, I'd read it over and over in prison, you know. And so I had some sort of knowledge on it. And I said, the devil's tempting me. Every time I'm talking about giving up, all of a sudden I'm getting another grand or two grand a week. I'm getting another customer to work with. And it just carried on like this. The country club days come to a bit of an end because one of my guys get nicked. One got nicked on the way to the club and then another one got nicked outside the club and I was thinking, ah, this could be related because it was really high profile. I was a drug dealer, you know what I mean? And I just thought this is getting a bit much for me, you know. So I come out of there and then I started going just wholesale, you know. Selling bigger bits to people that were going in clubs or whatever, you know. It's kind of progressed and every time I thought to give up, I'd get more money or bigger customers or better suppliers, cheaper products, you know. In the end I was working with a Jamaican yardie gang and they was, you know, I was their top guy. They basically give me, they was getting like 10 kilos a week and I was taking it and doing it in a day, you know. They couldn't get it quick enough for me to sell it, you know. I was earning huge amounts of money. I was kind of always used to think, how can I make more money at this, you know. Now I'm saying all this not to glorify it, but I just want to show people and tell people how far I've come that even me, this sinner that should have been thrown away in hell or, you know, God loved enough to send his son to die for me still, you know. So I just want to, I'm not glorifying it, but I do think I need to sort of just say if there's other people, if there's other people done the same things and think like I did, that you're not good enough, you know. I got a lot of messages, people battling with addictions, cocaine, heroin, crack, valiant weed, people battling gambling, drink, mental health, people just battling. So no matter the guest, there's always something there for people to pick up to try and make changes in their life now. Like he says, we don't glorify it, we don't glorify people anyway, but it's to get a better understanding of you, what you've done, what you were about in the past, what you've done to make the changes and what you're all about now. It's not what I mean. So when you started doing all your stuff and you were doing 10 kilo a day, what was it, outcome? Well, yeah, I was earning all this money, I was just continuing doing different things, doing grows, I was doing, I had bought a machine to manufacture ecstasy pills and speed tablets I used to make with it as well, you know. And it was all seemed alright, you know, the money was alright, but like I said, I never really had the peace, but the money was okay. And then one day, the maddest thing, this is where I might lose your audience, alright? When I tell you this next bit of story, they're like, yeah, right, yo mate, you know, mate, he's lost a plot. This is what happened to me. One day, God spoke to me. And it weren't like the movies with a big boom in voice and stuff. He spoke to me, which I later on found out, was spirit to spirit. So we're obviously a triumf being where spirit's soul and body. And so God's Holy Spirit, or his spirit, spoke to my spirit. And it was like, he said to me, this is what luck is I was doing all this coke and all the rest of it and all the pills and everything else. The machine on his own would have got me a big term. He said to me, stop what you're doing or you're going back to prison for a very long time. And I had this fear, there's a spirit called the fear of the Lord, which is one of the seven spirits. I felt really scared and there was stuff that went on for about two weeks, all different things kept happening. And I come back to my missus and I said, babe, babe, listen, God spoke to me today, right? He's told me, stop what I'm doing or I'm going to go back to prison for a long time. And she went, yeah, alright, babe. He's getting high on his own supply again. He's lost the plot here, right? And it's going, no, honestly, he spoke to me like, you know, she's like, okay, he's kind of taken it a bit more seriously, but you know, still probably, you know, not 100%. And so at the time, you know, I told there was a guy, I used to work with one of the Yardy guys and I said to him, look, I really feel this is for you as well. I feel God spoke to me and I think it's for you as well, like, you know. He's really lovely guy and his mum was a Christian as well, you know. He kind of listened and he said, alright, okay. Anyway, so you'd think at that point I would stop, right? That that would be enough for me because I was scared, but I didn't. I carried on, yeah. And so the first thing that happened after that, I had two different warnings. The first one, I had two kilos of cocaine and I was sitting in it. It was a new, I bought it from new and all that, but a little fiesta. I went all the flash cars and the flash, one sort of half nice watch, but nothing all flash what everyone done and baited themselves up, you know. I kept everything at low profile and I was in this little full fiesta parked up in the back street in Layton, right, with a mobile phone, but back then not everyone had the phones, you know. So it was a lot of drug dealers, Adam, one or two other people, but you know, it was more suspect to have a mobile phone then, you know. So I'm sitting there and normally I had a driver that had run my things and this particular day I thought, he'd done it all way. I had two left over the next day and I thought, oh, you know what, I just run them myself quick. I set up the road, I've just run them to my mate. So my mate sends his driver and I'm sitting there waiting and I said, I'm like a phone and my mate said, he's taking the mic because they're meant to be there before me, you know what I mean? I meant to go after. I said, he's taking the mic, your driver ain't it. He said, oh, Kevin should be there any minute. I said, yeah, but he ain't here. I'm sitting here waiting. You're going to get me nicked like, you know. And as I said that, having a guy in him down the phone, I've turned to my left and look, there's a police car going about two miles an hour past my car. Both of them are like looking in and I thought, I'm nicked, but I thought I've got to style it out like, you know. So I've looked over and kind of looked back and just went, it's like laughing down the phone and my mate's going, what's going on? You know what I mean? I thought I lost the plot. So I said, look, I wait for him to get out of shot and I said to him, look, there's a police just gone past. Tell him I hurry up like, you know. And if gone round, so I thought, right, it's a one way system. Maybe they'll come round and back on themselves, you know. And they might kind of come and have another look at me like, you know. So I've jumped out the car, I've hid the thing under someone else's car. Then I've got back in my car and I thought, hang on, I mean, late in here at the time it weren't as nice as how it's getting now. I thought someone might see it and nick it. It's like, you know, quite a lot of money's worth of stuff. So I jumped out, got it, put it back under my car. I'm like really bait what I was doing like, you know. And then anyway, by then my mate ends up coming past. I'll grab it, give it to him. He goes and I got away with it. That was the first warning. The second warning is I used to make the pills in the house and every three or four months I would move houses, you know. And so what would happen was I would give the guy a drink. He knew what I'd done, not exactly what I was doing in there, but he knew I was a drug dealer, you know. And so what I'd do is I'd give him a drink so I wouldn't be on the idea of it, but I'd move every three or four months. Just move about like, you know. Is that an agent? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, just rented a place like, you know. So one day, I kept this knock on the door. Whenever you've got a knock on the door in these places, you know, you'd think like, is it police knocking to see because neighbours are reported that it's a bit suspicious, the activity like, you know. So I've looked down the stairs and it's like a smoke window and I can see a soup there. I'm thinking, oh, no, like, you know. I mean, it might be CID or... But obviously if they knew what I was doing, they'd have come through the door, like, you know. So anyway, I'm like, stop the machine for... Every clonk is knocking out one of these pills, like, you know. So I've turned it off and I'm just waiting up in there. I used to change all the locks of the front door and the back door and stuff whenever I'd go into a place so that no one could get back in just in case the landlord would come round being nosy or whatever, you know. But I could never find the key to the back door so I'm telling my mate, look, there ain't no key. He's saying, no, no, it's definitely there, mate. I was saying, no, no, it's not there. Right, and so anyway, I changed the front door but didn't change the back. They've obviously must have tried to come in through the front, couldn't get in, but on the side it was in Forest Gate, this place and on the side of the house it was like a shed in the back garden but it kind of opened up a door to the side road sort of thing, you know. And anyway, next thing I've heard, on the door, on the bedroom door that I'm in, like, you know, and I've got me surgical gloves on and that and I'm like, someone's at the door, like, but I'm thinking, is it police but obviously they're knocking so maybe it's not but I don't know, all these faults going through my head. So I've took one of the gloves off and as I'm opening the door I'm trying to put a glove behind me and shutting the door and stuff because there's like a thousand at a time of these ecstasy tablets and speed tablets all scattered over the floor and drying and doing all sorts of different things, you know. And so I've come out, I said, what are you doing in my ass? So this guy was in the suit and he went, yeah, but it's not your ass, is it? It's their ass. And it was a father and a son Asian guys, you know. And he said, it's their ass, like, you know. And I said, yeah, but I'm renting it. He said, yeah, but you haven't paid the rent. I said, yeah, I have, I've paid the rent, like, you know. Because what I'd do is every time I'd move I'd wait and I'd maybe use up two weeks of the deposit. You know what I mean? A week or two weeks and then move. You know, so I didn't waste all the money, you know. But I mean, without going into this part of the story, part of the money weren't there basically. It wasn't there. The last month's month didn't get paid, you know. And so now I'm behind and they're looking for their money. So I said, look, I promise you, if you're owed any money, I'll promise you I'll meet you tonight and pay you the money. And all the downstairs obviously, there's no furniture in there. There's newspapers on the front floor. It looks suspicious anyway, you know. So I've got them out of the house. I went to load all the stuff in the hold all and I thought, you know what, let me just go outside in case they're outside waiting, you know. So I go outside. They're still outside the front door and I'm like, honestly, I promise you. But as I was walking out, I said, God, God, Lord, please get me out of this. Please Lord, I promise you I'll stop. I'll stop. I promise you I'll stop. So this is what happened. I come out, I talk them away. I talk them away from the house. They go. I promise the guy I'm going to meet him that night, which I did, and give him the month's money, man of my word. But I came back and just, you know, you think, oh, I went to toilet, I took a glove off, I've got a print there. I was just to leave everything, you know. So I went back, emptied it all out with someone that came and helped me and cleaned the whole place, disinfected it everywhere and stuff. And then we went. Anyway, so I said, Lord, listen, I've got all my money here. I know I said I'm never going to sell drugs again, but I've got to just sell this stuff. Once I've sold this and sold the machine, machine that I think was about £30,000. So once I've sold this, this would be my money to start again. Give me another chance later, you know. So I said, once this is gone, that would be me lot. And it was. I sold it all, got rid of it all, and then I stopped. So what I've done, I run around with this big bag of money, looking to start a business and, you know, and change my life and come away from the old life like, you know. And so, yes, what I've done, I kind of bought a shop, put my money into this shop. What kind of shop? Really, you know, from going from a drainage company I worked for when I was younger, I bought a women's clothing boutique, you know. Yeah, in Bucca Ocel. That's a classic drug dealer move. I know, I know, I know. Cowboy, sunbed, fatigues. I know, I know it is. Sorry for anybody who's got it. It's kind of the usual suspects. So what made you, what has that made you change then? Did you have something inside you that you knew wasn't right? Because let's face it, drugs destroyed life. So it was destroyed in your life. I've destroyed lives by it. I took drugs myself, destroyed, it was destroyed more in life. But sometimes you've got to think that all the shit that you do makes you who you are to then go get a minute. That wasn't right. So once you become stronger then, I believe you've got the right to then try and heal others, which is difficult because I always say it, I always repeat myself with this, but we all do battle. No matter what we choose in life, no matter what religion we follow, no matter who you are. But I've used so many different kinds of people from gangsters and sports stars, porn stars, politicians, actors. And now have one thing in common, is that everyone around my battling, no matter how much money they have, no matter how dark their story, or how happy their story is, they're all still battling and searching, which is crazy. But I think, I don't know, man life is weird Kev, it's a mad journey as a rollercoaster, happiness and all that. It's not a 24-hour thing, you have to work at it and be truly honest with yourself, which is a difficult part. Everybody knows the answers, I believe. Something then sighs them knows what's right and wrong if they're doing good in life, if they're doing bad. You should be honest with yourself. Take a step back, write down, what changed us about me and that. You don't need to change it all in one day because we're working on ourselves to the day we go. But when you started making your changes, how hard was it at the start? Really hard, because I just threw all my money. It should have been a lot more money to what I was doing, just wasted it, spent it, loads of designer gear and holidays, like luxury holidays and giving lots of it away as well. So the money I had was still half-decent money, it started, but it was a real struggle with this business. What I found was, when I dealt with people that you'd give drugs and stuff to people, you knew where you stood. If they rubbed the stuff off you, they knew there was consequences to that. That weren't going to be the end of it. You just knew where you stood. But when I tried in the straight world, I found it was blinking worse than the... It's harder. It's harder. Maybe it was just me, the ones I fell upon. Whether it's a product of drugs, or a product, I say it under, where it's still a product, poor greedy. So it doesn't matter what you do. Everybody's out there trying to compete, trying to make the most, including myself. This has become a competition. The podcast game, everybody jumps on it, but I think we will all show them. So I've always got gears I go through, but it's still competing. It's not as violent as the previous life, as the previous things. But mentally, you feel it, because then, like you say, it is harder going legit. It is harder for some weird reason. No matter what it is you're doing, people are just constantly at it. What is that then? Is that greed? It's greed. This is what I found in life. People are happy to tread on you, because if they climb on you, it means they can get a little bit higher than you. So they're always looking to elevate their self above you. It doesn't matter if they've got to walk up on you to do it. I found that quite a lot in the world we call it before I was a Christian. I was always disappointed with people, because I was pretty old school with a lot of my values. Even though I'd done that crime, I did go really against the grain, but obviously I'd done it, so that's my responsibility for that. But I was quite old school with a lot of my values and stuff, and very loyal and stuff like that. I used to get let down a lot with people, because they wouldn't always have the same values. Not that I'm saying I'm any better than them, but I don't know. I just was pretty loyal, and sometimes people weren't like that. So I've done this business, I've got Robb left right, and we didn't have a clue what he was doing, so I can't even put it all down to them. We had a massive shop, it was in four parts of the shop, took a huge amount, turned over really good money, on the surface it looked good, but in the end we lost loads of money. We started designing something like Dolce and Gabbana, Prada, Cashirell, Plain, so all these top Italian labels, Matthew Williamson, an English one, and it was all really good, and then we designed our own label. We had a label called Punk 77, and so it started off with a pair of army trousers, and we got prints on these army trousers, put them out there, sold them out. It was like people couldn't get enough, it was such a different thing, having these prints on trousers and stuff, it's all different. I've got quite a good eye for things, and when I said we've really got a good thing here, we've got to start putting this with a wholesaler, and we've got to make the most of what we've got, because we don't know how long it's going to last, so we put it with a wholesaler, and we had to come up with this collection, and we didn't really know what we was doing, we just had some good designs and stuff like that. So this is what we've done, we've done all this collection, put it with a wholesaler, 45 accounts in the first season we opened up, it was doing really well. After the first season was really hard work, it was losing a lot of money, and so we started taking a lot of money from the label and putting it in the shop. He borrowed a load of money from an amazing family, and stuff, and it just kind of went a bit pear shaped, and in the end we couldn't focus on the label because the shop was such a struggle, it was like a monster to run, a lot of staff and stuff like that, and in the end it all went, we lost everything, we rented a gaff up in Coptaw Estate, Rodgedewitt used to live at the other end of the estate, it was quite plush and all that, and we sold our house, this is what happened, we did actually buy a house with the money, we wangled it like that, but we sold our house, because after all the 9-11 stuff happened and stuff, and they were saying property was going to crash, and I was going to buy a bigger house, and so we sold that, I said to my mrs, maybe we're the worst mistake I've ever done, put the money in a bank, and we'll wait till it picks up again, but obviously it didn't crash, and so we ended up sticking all the money into the Splinking Shop, and done the whole lot, all my savings, all my house money, the whole lot went, and we ended up, we had his and hers free landers, me and me and mrs, it was quite in at the time, and in the end they came, they took the cars, they kicked us out of the house, we ended up homeless, in a place called Norway House in Northwild, and that was me and me and mrs, me and mrs free kids, but even then, see God was in it, God was in it even then, so I missed that bit of story, let me rewind a little bit, so before we lost the business, but it was quite a way into losing quite a lot of money, and stuff like that, our kids was in a Christian school, and we had a ghost in the house, and so Coptle was quite famous for being haunted anyway, he was the gardener's house, quite a nice house and stuff at the time, and it was haunted, my mrs was sitting in bed once, reading a book awake, and then she said, the bed compressed, and Sankt sat next to her in bed, and you know when you get in bed you go, ah, like this, thank goodness I'm in bed, she heard that, sitting next to her, and she said, she's free to write out, and then this spirit, or whatever it was, this demon, as we now know, it's not a person that's died and all that, it's all a lie, and so this demon, then speaks to my son, now if you've ever seen Family Guy, Family Guy when he got the evil monkey in the closet and all that, and he quents and stuff, my son said, when he was three or four years old, he said dad, there's a monkey with evil eyes, and it sits on my bed and talks to me dad, I don't want it to talk to me, and he got really freaked out because he's confident and all that, and the second time it happened it last month, before he sort of got over it, so we're thinking we need to get this house, get someone in to get rid of the ghost, so who do we get in like, oh I know this shaman like, they'll help, sit up happy days, come in, he burnt a few feathers, made it worse, right, made it worse, because people think, see what it is, there's two doorways into the spirit world, there's the legal door, and there's the illegal door, if you go for the illegal door, you cause problems, you can start getting demons, and stuff like that, now all this stuff's real, people think it's just the moves, okay they can get, but certain people can get possessed, but most of the time it's oppressed, oppressed or demonised is the actual word, they get demonised, so you can get spirits that dwell in your soul, and they can afflict you, now the bible says that the enemy comes to kill, steal and destroyer, he doesn't come to be friends with you, he comes to kill you, he hates mankind, the devil, and so that's what he does, and this is what people can get from being a part of the occult, or going through the illegal door, so this guy's burning the feathers, making it worse in the house, I'm seeing things in reflections and quick glimpses of things, and it was like, freaked us out, so my missy said, how about Steven, that vicar, he's attached to the kids school, like this church, so I said, oh try it, so we get him to come round, he comes round, and it's on a Sunday evening, Sunday morning Sunday evening, he's left the curate in charge, he comes round, goes round the rooms, he knew the two rooms, the manifestations of this demon in, and he says, I feel a presence in here, but he blessed all the rooms, and it went, that was it, we experienced after that with it again, and then he said, he'd come down to have a cup of tea, and I was sitting down at the table, and he said, so, would you like to invite Jesus into your life, and I just thought, yeah, yeah I do, God had spoke to me, we've had all this journey from there, it was all getting built up for this day, and I said, yeah, we both said yeah, we'll do it, so we gave our lives there properly this time, because the first time I felt it was properly saved because I never lived that life, and he said, yeah, come a church, be good to come a church, so on the way there we're like, yeah, we'll go once, we'll just poke our head in the door, he's done this nice prayer and done this nice thing in the house, we'll go once and be polite, but I'm not going every week, no, I ain't going every week either, just the once. So we get to the church, it's like a big old church of England, the doors sort of pulled shut, we got there a bit later, and so we're outside the door and we're like, we can't go in there, can we? and my miss said, no, we can't, we're bad people, we've done some bad things, and my miss said, he said, yeah, I don't think we can, can we? and we're just about to go and then this couple comes out and they said, oh, he's coming in, we're not good like you, we're bad people, you know what I mean? Don't be silly, all of us have made mistakes, come in, don't be silly, it's for everyone. So we went in, had the service and that, we're thinking it's all going to be come by army, be Lord, and all that sort of worship songs. It's like really good worship songs, and we really liked it, well, we loved it to be honest with you, and the whole service, everything was great, the sermon, everything, and we was back every week after that, we wouldn't miss a week and it just kind of went from there, but what happened was about eight or nine years later my wife had had depression for a long time since we had trouble with the shop she'd always had it from a kid from a young age, a bit of depression, but never really manifested itself properly again from a kid until we'd come out of the shop until the business failed and stuff, and she got really bad really bad depression, was under mental health and stuff, she had OCD depression insomnia, OCD depression and anxiety, quite often they come hand in hand. They're all kind of in the same category, and it's quite common amongst a lot of people now. Years of drugs and drink, and then worrying about you getting out, maybe going to prison plays a massive effect, every drug dealer I know loses it all, and the girls that they're with end up with severe depression they still chase that, I know guys in their 40s and 50s still try to chase what they had in their 20s, it's unbelievable wake the fuck up it ain't a life, any drug dealer you're destroying lives, to try and benefit your own it will come back and bite you in the ass now I don't know if you believe in karma but something plays a part in it that, wait a minute we've sold drugs and destroyed other people's lives to live this lavish lifestyle, to go in these fancy holidays, whoever controls this world or what others created does is gonna say right wait a minute you think that's cool, I'll give you a free pass for 5 years, 10 years but to come back and clean your soul or whatever you're cleaning, you're gonna have to go through this darkness that you've caused other people so here it is, here's a test of your own medicine boom, and it's so difficult that people can't push through those dark clouds as well and end up either taking their own life or not being able to change because it's too fucking hard for people to actually make changes, but the beautiful thing about life is it can be done so when your message was going through that team kev, what were you thinking it's really horrible to be honest with you, because I'd grown up with it as well, my mum had depression so to be honest I wasn't as patient with it as what I should have been, I should have been a loving husband and caring for what she was going through because it's a disability I was like oh here we go again when you've got bad depression it affects the whole family it ain't just the person that's got it everyone's on eggshells and it could say the wrong thing and then it'd be analysing but why did you say that but you said it, why did you say it that's so hurtful that's analysing spirits and stuff we call them and it'd be really hard so what happened was when we were quite still early Christians our vicar who led us to the Lord he moved to Southampton and it was quite a big blow for us because obviously he moved to another church and he was going where his life was but for us it was quite a big blow and stuff he was a mentor and stuff as well so 8 or 9 years down the line of being Christians, my wife's got this really bad depression she was like oh babe I don't want to go to church today she didn't want to leave the house sometimes for weeks at the end she wouldn't leave the house I'd have to do the school runs and stuff we had like 10 years of bad luck no money no matter what I tried lost my business anything I tried wouldn't work we'd brought a curse upon ourselves by doing what we'd done that's one but what the devil does is you've got the devil on you as well so at first it's all good he's doing the drugs and he's happy with that and he's going to use you one day he's going to take it from you because what the devil gives you on one hand that's what he does his aim is to destroy you but if he can see that you're destroying enough other lives as well he'll leave you doing it for a while and then sooner or later he's going to bring destruction to you as well as the punishment of God for what you're doing as a devil in yours and your belief Kev what do you believe a devil is he's a created being he's created by God he's not the opposite of God like some people think he is he's not as powerful as God what happened was through pride was the first sin Satan fell from God's grace and he got kicked out of heaven but what he'd done was he went round tail bearing and he took a third of the angels with him so his army is him and a third of the angels our army is God who could take out all of them on his own anyway because he's created them all he's all powerful, all knowing, all seeing and then you've got Jesus' son and then the Holy Spirit so he's three and one God and then we've got two thirds of the angels so you know when people think I'm tough and I do this and I'll just be a part of that gang near the top gang I'm part of the top gang my gang's the top gang now you might be able to kill my flesh but spiritually when it comes to spiritually side of it Christian people are a lot more powerful not because of us because we've got the Holy Spirit in us and it comes between a pastor a vicar and a priest pastors are basically they can be called for God to do what they do like vickers and priests and stuff but they've got to go Bible college it's all theology and it's so many years of training and stuff I'm not too sure exactly it's like five years or something like that of training they have to do before they can get ordained as a priest or a vicar with pastors you haven't got to go through that training as much to say as my wife went to an amazing Bible college River Institute Bible college and so she was she's done two years at that but I haven't got no training I was expelled when I was 13 my education's pretty poor but God can use a donkey it says in the Bible he's used a donkey to talk to someone so if he can use a donkey well maybe he can use me how much did it change Zoe's life when she started turning around it changed her life but she still had the depression so when we got saved no one told us about warfare no one told us about how to battle the enemy, the devil and his demons and stuff we never knew none of that we just knew about Ghana church we never knew none of the warfare so what happened was my wife ended up getting to the station and said look Kevin I don't want to go to church we'll miss it tonight and then I'll go next night and it went on just didn't want to leave the house so we backslid we backslid I had no work my kids was never being able to go to any of the school trips because I had no money all the time I barely had any work for nine or ten years and so as a dog returned to its vomit I promised God I wouldn't sell drugs so I thought maybe maybe I could just sell drugs then maybe I'll do that I didn't know what else to do didn't have no money so I've done a grow I've done a grow in my lock cabin in my back garden How many plans? I can't even remember how many it was 20 odd I think it was it weren't loads but it was going to get me a few quid so in the meantime of doing this grow I'll get a job I'll get a job with a strange company so I started working for them I thought I don't need to do the grow now but I never had no money to do this grow so I got someone to buy the equipment and went off with me sort of thing so I felt obliged to do it now you see what I mean and as the grow had already been starting I thought I can't really get out of this so I carried it I started working anyway I was working with this guy and we were driving in the forest gate to do a job and I said wow I used to rent a house down here I said I used to rent a house down here because this guy used to take drugs and sell a bit of drugs as well so we kind of knew each other you get together like 11-12 hours a day we was we used to do really long hours so you tell each other a bit of your stuff and I said I used to rent a house then sell me drugs for them really what number I said I can't remember what number it's that big ass on the corner like that's where we're doing a job mate it was the house where I made God the promise that I would never sell drugs again and in the middle of doing a grow I'm getting a job at the same house I made the promise some of you might say that's a coincidence but what's the odds of that our area we covered was inside the M25 and just outside as well so we covered millions of homes that was like winning the lottery that was the sort of odds of me getting a job at that house at that time and so that's what it was so I got a job there and I was like woah this is God talking to me saying so much for your promise because you should never promise God never make a promise you can't keep with God and I did unfortunately who has God? so God is the creator of everything God created everything the whole universe, the earth is my father I have a personal relationship with him through his son Jesus Christ do you hear voices or anything do you hear that when I pray for people because I believe there is a higher power I don't know what it is, I don't know if it's God but somebody has created us and always say that, the heart, the liver, the kidneys how our body functions people say evolution people can say we come from apes some people say we come from fish some people say we're aliens I don't see the world differently I don't know but I'm open to everything I'm open to your beliefs and how you see the world I'm open to how other people see the world it's mad but for you I know people say well there's a God why is there so much badness in the world what would you say to those people? there's a lot of wicked things that go on in the world things ain't going to get better for the time being because this is all in the Bible of what's going to happen but what it is, there's God but there's also a devil because we was created we wasn't created to be made to love God that we had to love him like robots because that's what would be robots so he created us with free will, free choice so it's up to us to choose to love him because that's real love he wanted us to really love him and so what he'd done he created Adam and then from Adam's Rib came Eve and then what they'd done the only rule they had obviously our understanding of it all is like a newborn baby compared to God so there's certain things we can't understand because God's wisdom and understanding is much greater than anything we could ever comprehend but he did put in the garden the tree of knowledge and he said look you can do anything you want but don't eat for the tree of knowledge because if you do you'll surely die so the devil comes in the garden as a serpent and he said look did God really say that did he really say that you can't eat it do you really think you'll die see he's still got the same tricks to the devil this area makes lots of people fall to different sin you know oh is it really that bad are you any worse than anyone else this is what he does and so Eve fell first of all she ate from the tree of life and then she said to Adam you know have some of that like you know what I mean and then Adam met from it as well and then because of that and then they felt naked they covered their self up because of their shame and then when they come they said why are you covered up normally they just walk naked and not think about it and then God seen that they were saying wrong and then obviously he's all knowing anyway and then they told him what they'd done and then because of that sin entered the world so that was the first sin of man but because of that mankind got cursed so the grand got hard to work whereas they didn't have to work it fruit would just grow they didn't have to work the grand for them to eat then what happened was then they had a certain amount of years to live so whereas before they would live forever now they only had a certain amount of years to live which is still like I think six, seven, eight hundred years back in the beginning days you know and so this is what happened we was born into curse we was born into sin because of what Adam and Eve done so what God done was to send his only son now you've got to get your head around this because it is really really powerful God was up in heaven he looked down upon his creation and seen that they were worshipping all other gods and instead of wiping us all out which a lot of them deserve a lot of us deserve or all of us probably deserve he took compassion on us so what he'd done was he thought I'll send my only begotten son down to earth he'd be born of flesh he'll suffer the wickedness of man he'll be falsely accused because of their jealousy of him of the miracle signs and wonders he was doing they was jealous so they falsely accused him they took him into court one of his best friends betrayed him they beat him with their palm in their hands and they beat him up they spat on him, falsely accused him and cursed him and then what they'd done was they scarred him which is a whip now this whip they used to have bits of lead on it so when it hit the flesh and they pulled it back it would take out chunks of flesh and quite often small pieces of bone this is how brutal what he suffered for us and then after that they took him in front of the garrison of the Roman soldiers they stripped him naked so he bore our shame and they pressed a crown of thorns into his head then they nailed him to a cross and while he was up there think about everything he suffered he could have called legions and legions of angels and wiped out the earth if you wanted to one angel in the Bible killed 300 somic phas and people in one night that was coming against Israel and so but he didn't he come for one purpose to die, people say yeah but they killed him because he allowed them to kill him he come as a sacrificial lamb so the Jews in the Old Testament would sacrifice a lamb or have sin offerings for their sins he came as a one time sin offering so that he could be sacrificed so that every one of us can be saved now it don't come automatically so that he done it for us he done it for every one of us don't matter how bad you are, he done it for every one of us but it's a legal requirement for us to take part in that and what we've got to do is we've got to trust in Jesus like you would a parachute you'd put it on, you'd wear him you trusted him there's seven deadly sins how many sins are there? loads, uncannable there's seven deadly sins yeah but there's there's seven deadly sins but there's one sin what you don't get forgiven for so there's one unpardonable sin so the unpardonable sin is if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit so if you say about the Holy Spirit saying evil you talk evil like the word blaspheme there's three different causes for blaspheme but this particular one is when you talk evil and untruths about the Holy Spirit that don't ever get forgiven what about because we're talking about many of times now when you talk about people being cursed let's touch on that that you think people can be cursed from generations to generations from muda disease and it passes down what is this? me and my wife we've got a team me and my wife and Nancy we've got a deliverance team so we help people that are oppressed we're talking about you've got to be a Christian to get delivered because it can come back worse but basically we help people that have had generational curses we're helping a lady at the moment that has done a double murder and we've already done quite a bit of deliverance with her and we found that there was all generational curses so basically our ancestors it can be like 30, 40, 50 generations ago our ancestors a lot of them was quite wicked they were pagans and they would do a lot of human sacrifice, animal sacrifice another white magic, black magic yeah see this white magic thing they say, you see magic's magic, it's either of God or it ain't, it's as simple as that but people make it right it's only a white liar or it's white collar crime it's not a crime but it's still a crime so basically a lot of things we find is with their ancestors they've practised witchcraft or there's been incest incest is quite often there'll be sexual sin that can cause people to rape or that can cause people to incest themselves or it can, a lot of the time I'm not making excuses for people to do it because it's still got their free will to choose to do right and wrong but quite often it's hugely affected by the curses that their ancestors have done so we take people for a process we find out what the curses are sometimes the demons outright talk to us yeah they'll tell us and we command them in Jesus' name because even Jesus' name is more powerful than the devil and his kingdom, just his name alone so we can command them to say how they got in there how many generations they've got in there and this is how we get it out we find out the legal rights, we break the legal rights we find out what diseases sickness or disease they've taken into the vessel into the body and we get them to lift the diseases as well so all that gets banned to their kingdom so when you talk about diseases like cancer, stuff like that that can pass down from family who members who say it's hereditary so it's basically you think it's people being cursed from generations to break that so it gets scary there's that nexusism it's nexusism, it's the same thing different terminology it's more of a Catholic terminology really for it as a Christian term that we say deliver it's not as brutal on it it's not as the film the power of Christ compelled you people get scared this stuff will still scare the shit out of people but it also could be true because people they go through generations and generations and nothing really changes people see a reflection of their mum, their dad or their uncle and then it's the same again and it passes down and passes down maybe there is something in it so for you when you started making your changes did you know about this stuff at the start getting into this to begin with was my wife had depression and anxiety and all the stuff I said about and then when we started coming back to church my eldest daughter started going to church first and I'm saying we should get back, it's like two or three years I've done all these wrong things and back puffing again which I hadn't done for years and done a couple of silly things and I said maybe we should get back to church as well so pretty early on when we went back to church I met this guy I used to see him every now and again and I bumped into him again just before we went back standing in touch with him and he was a Christian but I used to box a gym called the Peacock gym in Canningtown I was there for years and this guy used to be one of my sparring partners and I said to him oh yeah, you're back at church I said yeah, you're at this church he said I'm going to come on Sunday I'll bring my girlfriend his girlfriend was like a prophetess and people get as a Christian that are given by God and this particular gift she hears from God she can talk right into your life and tell you stuff about your life and the imitation is clairvoyance the devil imitates everything of God's kingdom and so she come and met us and she sees what was on my wife's straight way because she sees it, she's a seer as well so she can see the devil like the demons and she can see the angels and she said oh can we go for a coffee he said yeah, swap numbers they went out of coffee and he said you know why I'm here don't you she said yeah I can feel things moving in me he said yeah you're going to get delivered so she ended up praying for her she got delivered over a couple of times she got delivered of all these demons which is what they are depression and anxiety it's not always demons but most of the time it is because sometimes it can be chemical imbalances but I blame everything on a demon some medical reasons as well yeah medical reasons yes it's not always a demon and so basically she got delivered she got completely set free no more insomnia OCD, anxiety, depression gone she's under mental health at a place in Epin she give up all her tablets all proper heavy duty tablets she was on give them all up and we started thinking wow people can get help with this there's loads of people that are banned up with these things we kind of had compassion for them because of what we went through so you get a better understanding people's struggles no matter what you force your energy you can change the mental madness whatever is the monkey people call it as well it's just constant noise so you know yourself we taking gear in that but when I was taking gear I used to go what am I doing and every Monday or Tuesday I say right no more but then it's like all the devil kicks in what is that then it kicks in is that the subconscious mind or is that what you say a demon saying just take it because I still think about taking gear I still think about gambling I just don't act on it I believe I'm in full control I believe I've got the power the only thing that I struggled with was eating I'm taking control of that now I'm becoming a different animal through wellbeing I promote all this stuff so I need to lead by example I need to put it into practice myself that's exactly what I'm doing I've become obsessed so it's a difficult because then be the biggest podcast then be the fittest I've got a 50k run coming up which is over 30 mile run in Saturday only started 3 mile runs but again 6-7 weeks ago now I'm thinking I don't like running but the feeling I get after it my pain's away I'll feel this up here hear the noises I don't feel the hurt and the pain and the regret do you know what I mean so when you start everybody's different in life I guess we all see the world differently and what you're saying people resonate with or other people think he's fucking nuts exactly what I'm saying he's fucking nuts do you know what when you started people first hearing this about the evidence and demons what would you have thought when you were a dog dealer if somebody told you that yeah maybe I would have thought it was nuts to be honest with you it's one of them things you've got to see for yourself really to fully understand to believe that but basically they say about you've got the devil on your shoulder and the angel on the other shoulder trying to tell you good and bad it's kind of quite a lot of truth in that you know so what can happen is when you start taking drugs you can get different demons attached that come and enforce it to them drugs listen you have got your flesh as well your body so it ain't all the battles with the devil you know quite often we've got battles with our flesh we want to do things it says in the bible that our flesh is an enmity with God it's a battle it's a war with God so our flesh wants to do everything that's wrong even Paul wrote most of the New Testament he even said I want to do the right thing but my flesh don't want to do the right thing it wants to do what's wrong and this is a battle so we can't blame everything kind of demons because we have got our part to play we can say no to things and resist it and I think that what's happened with you is you've overcame a lot of your demons and you've weakened a lot of your demons because you've subdued them and you've refused to enter into the drugs and the gambling and stuff like that so we can take away their power a lot by refusing to do it and enter into it but without even getting delivered what about the people who's battling just now that do you know how hard that is many times you've changed and then you end up slipping back and then you slip back and then you hit rock bottom and then the wave gets depression it can be difficult that there's so much pain people are in so much pain and it's sad to see that I don't know all the answers you don't know all the answers but for people that's battling like drug addiction any sort of mental health what would you say then what advice would you give them do you think that's demons or do you think it's a party so many different factors that comes into play okay so here's what my brother when I say brother he's not my literal brother but when you go to church and you have your church family they become your brothers and your sisters so my brother Marco he said he had a really bad gambling addiction I'm sure he won't mind me saying this suffered with drugs and stuff like that as well so what happened with him Harry overcame it he got to the end of himself a couple of different people say this where they couldn't do it and they was like Lord I can't do it on my own strength I can't physically do this but you can take this away easy from me so you've got to have that faith and you've got a trust in God you asked him once to take it away and then after that you're thanking for it so it's a thank you Lord a thank you that you've took it away from me why would you say that if you've just took it you've just got to keep speaking it positivity and speaking it's called faith and sometimes other testimonies of people walking a church get instantly delivered from cocaine crack heroin addictions or alcohol addictions instantly delivered it works like that with some people and other people have to go through a bit of a process but I don't know why and how exactly it works I've spoke to a few people obviously nearly 200 people now and Paul Ferris became a good friend he's very well known for his books and the film The Wee Man Proper criminal but he was on his cell as well and he heard a voice because he says it people think he's fucking nuts because he knows his life as well but a few people have heard voices I think Marvin heard it as well I think when he was doing a sentence I'm sure he heard the voice but then again they're also dabbling drugs just like myself but if I heard voices I'd be thinking I'm just tripping balls here do you know what I mean but maybe I don't know maybe the drugs as well open things in your brain also destroys the brain cells but if I hear and the door slammed I'm thinking that's some creepy shit man the door just slammed and there's no windows in here there's the rooms at the back and the doors are slammed I'm thinking here we go how do you break the demons in how do you break people possessed just pray for them if they want to truly believe themselves though do you see their face changed do you see things leaving their body massively so my sister I've got two really good ones so my sister Nancy maybe I've got to be a bit careful with saying names there's two people close to me two and we prayed for them one of them she got delivered like she was dealing with white witchcraft oh no I only do white witchcraft I only do yoga yoga opens up the chakras and it opens up all sorts of it's one of the worst ones believe it or not yoga I've just been getting at the yoga as well honestly it's one of the worst ones especially what happens is it goes up the spine you've got seven entry points into the spine and when you get the final one which is just below the skull and when that opens up people have said that they've gone mad because they couldn't handle it but it's all full demonic oppression or possession you've got to be really careful of these sort of things one of them had this witchcraft thing and we prayed for comfort I was talking to one of my friends who was at a CA meeting and I said to him look I really think that we can help people with addictions so if you've got anyone that you want to send this particular day I was at home doing paperwork and stuff I weren't at work so he said well actually I've got someone she lives in Ongar I'll tell her like I said well I'm in at the moment she's in tell her to come round now she's in the right bad way with depression so I said alright no worries anyway she phoned me up and she said after she told us her testimony she said I thought myself I'm in a bad way I should have suicide or depression I thought what's two Christians going to do to help me how are they going to be able to help me so she comes around I talked to her on the phone I said look I think we can help you if you come round so I got my wife here put my wife on the phone to make sure she felt comfortable about coming round she comes round we prayed for was pretty powerful she was thrown to the floor which ain't normally that dramatic normally it's a little cough they come out it's done it's not really that dramatic you know what I mean but hers was thrown to the floor she was trying to escape she was trying to bang her head on the floor she said thank him he was trying to tell me to get out the door which is the demon trying to tell her escape but we just carried on praying for her and they come out and then her eyes opened that day she screamed when she was getting rid of the witchcraft demon and I said what's the matter she said this ugly witch with piercing green eyes flying in front of her face like this and she said it just screwed at her like this and then flew out the window as we cast it because we cast it to the abyss it flew out the window as you cast it away like you know and so we said you're going to be a seer which she is she's a prophetess now she's got a really powerful story herself and then the next person now I never really got scared of it you know some people think don't you get scared and I'm not the bravest person in the world I'm not saying I never have fear but this particular one which is only a couple of weeks ago I won't say the person's name but they're like an amazing lovely woman of God my proper sister and so you know what I say it's the quiet ones you've got to watch out for like you know now I know why they say it you know so we start praying and then she starts giggling and that you know and we're thinking oh is she getting the giggles but there's a spirit called Jezebel which is widely spoken about in the book of Revelation for the end times what's coming saying it'd be a big problem and I'm thinking is that Jezebel or is that her because Jezebel always giggles like naughty school kids you know and so I start praying for her proper laughing and then start speaking out of her and stuff like that and it was proper, it wasn't a possession because she can't be possessed because she's a Christian she's sealed you know but this demon starts anyway the one we end up calling up there's a demon called Satan Satan Bellsybub and there's another one not the actual devil but the demon name so his personality ain't actually him so she's got this Satan demon right she's like screaming at me she's like this she's got her hands next behind her back like this and she's standing up and I'm standing in front of her and normally my wife is standing in front and I stand behind her in case they go over in the spirit and I can catch them you know but I've ended up in front of her and she's got a fist like this at her side and she's just screwing looking like this and then she'd come to me and go oh I'm really sorry but I really feel I want to kill you and I love you, you're my brother I don't want to kill you so don't worry it's the demon, don't worry about it so she's like this screwing and it's really bizarre I haven't seen this you know her face was actually all puffed up and stuff and her eyes and her face all looked a bit puffed up this is like probably the worst manifestation I've seen like you know and her eyes were shut and all of a sudden I'm going to put my hands up I did flap a little bit I've got to be honest with you I did flap a little bit I did a little bit for a moment because I've had big geezers talking all different voices and all that we're delivering and there hasn't been a problem but this one I thought wow all of a sudden her eyes are shut like this but when she's leaning forward and looking up at me all of a sudden I see these eyes looking at me through her eyelids I'm not a seer normally I don't normally see these sort of things but I did this time you know and for that split second I kind of stepped off a little bit gathered my thoughts and the Holy Spirit kicked in and then I went back with anger like a righteous anger you know and I was like right you're getting it now because I've got a spirit to talk over and yeah we set them free and it's just transformed them you know we just see people getting like the first one I was telling you about got set free with depression and stuff this one is normally what happens is if you're a person with the anointing that God's giving you for speaking like yourself quite often you've alright with it but quite often shut your mouth up you know if you're going to be a preacher or an evangelist or whatever one that tells people about God he'll attack you in that particular area but since we've done this and got these spirits out and the ones that was holding her mouth shut she's just properly come out of her shell like you know she's really doing well so yeah it's such a good ministry to be in I'm not scared here though that people are obviously watching us they're thinking what the fff like people watch horror movies, exorcisms they watch horror and they think it's all a little double all looks like a man who's living it and seeing it it's nuts man it is nuts so for people struggling if you've lived the life being a drug dealer armed robber now you're trying to heal people you've healed yourself how are you feeling first of all now how's your life? okay so I always suffered with a lot of rejection I used to feel quite rejected with things and stuff and a lot of different people in my life and you know I had quite a bit of rejection a bit of rejection and stuff and I've kind of a lot better I'm not saying I'm 100% but I'm so much better than what I ever was before with the rejection side of it and stuff and yeah I'm doing alright now you ever get angry yourself still do you ever think yeah you know what I'm human this is the things sometimes people go like oh yeah look at him meant to be a Christian well look at how I was before I was a Christian I can still get the jump sometimes and still be a bit impatient which is some of the things that I used to be terrible at you know what I mean I'm much much better now but it's a journey and I'm growing and I'm getting better I'm not getting worse anymore so I'm not perfect people might see me after this goes out and think oh look at him he's meant to be this man yeah listen I'm not perfect Jesus was perfect I'm not but I've come a long way from where I was the people treat you care of no one but you do know have you accepted what I thought as people came they think I'm not going to speak to him yeah people do the people that know that I do deliverance are normally people a lot of people that I deliver basically that we help and pray for we mentor a lot of people as well we show them the things we never learnt when we were Christians you know we do help a lot of people for anybody struggling care of people that's come through depression, anxiety all the worst things possible do that a human can go through people battling for addictions what advice would you give for them find yourself a good church before you do that cry out to God cry out from your heart and say Lord please Lord I repent of my sins Lord I invite you you need to get Jesus in your heart so you've got goodness in your heart I'm not saying instantly your problems will be solved you still have trials and tribulations and you still have life to deal with but you've got a peace first of all which is what I've got now I've got a peace in my heart that I'm saved I'm going to heaven I'm saved I haven't got that fear anymore of I'm going to hell I'm such a bad person I've done these bad things and stuff I invite Jesus into your heart say Father God don't worry about mate you next door or your friends or if I know this goes out into a lot of the prisons and stuff don't worry about your cell mate or your guy next door or anybody else because it's about you and God when you're standing between God and judgement day none of your friends, your family no one else will be there between you and God whether you've done enough to get in so for what I'll say is I invite Jesus into your heart I ain't got to be a big fancy prayer it's just got to be from your heart because they're the prayers that are powerful and you just got to say Father God please forgive me of all my sins Lord from this day forward I choose to follow you and turn from my old life now repenting when you repent your sins it doesn't mean just to say you're sorry that's a small part of it it means to turn from your ways and sin no more it takes along the way as you're trying and you get better and better as you go along with it but just say Lord please forgive me Father I invite your Holy Spirit into my heart Lord I pray that you'll come and dwell and live in me Lord and I pray that you change me from the inside out I believe that your son Jesus Christ died on the cross for me he rose again on the third day and he's coming back again for me one day and you just turn from your old way and say Lord I'm no longer going to run from you I'm going to run to you and that's what you do that's just a basic little prayer you can look it up online there's different prayer of salvation it's called and you can get full of prayers that's not fair enough it's your story, your beliefs Kevin it's changed your life, it's changed Zoe's life it's changed in other people's lives and if it's changed in your life you're not harming anybody then so be my brother I believe it's a good thing for anybody that's watching maybe they can find the answers and if you're seeing that as the answers for people then why not go back and try, nothing to lose nothing to lose and even if you know what even if there's people out there listening they say yeah I don't really believe that you know what I mean what harm is it, you've got nothing to lose invite Jesus, he's a gentleman he's at the door knocking, he ain't going to barge his way in but once you invite him in like I did in the prison even though I forgot about him I'd invited him in so I don't think that maybe he would have come to me the way he did unless I'd already invited him in my heart what's on there if she was name again oh Brad, my nephew Brad oh Brad, love you brother he loves to show and stuff and he was like oh wow, hang on how come James is like friends of Luke I see him like he shouted him out for the wedding I said yeah he was at the wedding night he was meant to come as well to the wedding but there was a couple of stuff that went on at the time that you couldn't make it in the end so love you Brad do you want to finish up on anything brother? yeah, just like I say back to really what I was saying about just give it a go you've got nothing to lose, don't worry about anybody else, it's between you and God it's a personal relationship between you and God do you want to finish up maybe a prayer for anybody watching to be struggling or you can send a positive message for whatever lesson it could change a life you just don't know who's watching who's needing this message and if the guest is different I don't know all you says you're going to do when it starts but we've never saw it so father God Lord I call upon your Holy Spirit Lord because this is all this stuff I've been talking about Lord I can't do this on my own it's not about what I can do I'm just a normal fellow like everybody else listening to this show Lord you come by your Holy Spirit Lord fill me up a fresh Lord fill up this flat with your presence Lord Lord we just speak directly to suffering Lord that are going through different afflictions depression, anxiety insomnia, OCD a lot of the things that my wife suffered from or any other sort of mental illness we speak directly to the mind right now to their minds to any demons that's keeping them bound I'm speaking directly to you right now I bind you up with an Ecclesiastes 412 free-folded called from head to foot and I rain down holy fire upon you right now I command you leave them right now in the mighty name of Jesus come out of them vessels I command you in the mighty name of Jesus the name above every name Lord I just pray Father God that the peace of your Holy Spirit may descend down upon the people listening right now Lord that they may fill your presence and experience you Lord in a mighty way Lord that they may know beyond a shadow of a doubt Lord that you're real that you're real Lord make yourself known to them Lord dreams and visions Lord make yourself known to them Lord so that they may be saved and have that peace of mind that I have Lord in Jesus mighty name I pray Amen Kef absolute pleasure my brother God bless you too