 And we're back with a breakfast and plus TV Africa to Nicole Nick Agouli joins us this morning for of the press and Nick. Thank you so much for joining us We appreciate you on short notice Thank you very much messy Let's quickly take a look at the papers set up with the punch punch talks about the CBN forex band Nigerians imported 18 trillion cooking oil Meats others in seven years. That's according to report importers all that are Greek animal product orders from Asia and EU African countries firm source dollars at power market over for ex-band on 41 items and you also find another caption federal government to repay World Bank 800 million dollars loan for 25 years Wow doctors in diaspora petitions National Assembly over anti Migration deal and then Senate probes accountant general over 74 billion our funds and Justice we still look at the papers Banana Island seven-story building collapse Lagas allergic structure lacks permit. So how did the structure? Get to that point if it wasn't given any sort of permit, I mean Can anybody just wake up and erect a structure without getting the permit? Well, is it even possible? I would you think about it then Now Tico dismisses exile plan and slams protesters, please arrest two over where you students debt That's the size of it this morning on the punch we turn our attention away from the punch and just a quickly look at the daily independent I am if okay is tight fiscal policy and increased tax for Niger ones Rising interest rates could trigger global recession But I mean I'm just confused because at some point you have the IMF single increase the interest rate And now they're saying all the interest rate could actually trigger global recession Where exactly is IMF on this particular one and Senate sustains AGF's indictment over 74 billion our extra budget payment Kogi governorship election shocks has caught nullifies Kogi a PC ward and local government Congress's and then again You find liberal party crisis state chairman stop a pop up from entering National secret a Tico cannot Help you win the Kogi governorship ticket River tells River state governor tells PDP Dino I mean you need to look at that conversation the back and forth between Dino Mela and of course yes some weaker River state Federal government or case 23 billion are for a new go on each I wrote and third mainland bridge Proves a 18.5 for for billion for renovation of costums auditorium and vehicles obese Tram trade deuces impersonate him in London United Kingdom Immigration service reviews. I mean that's part of our top trending this morning And then you guy find dairy you wire who emerges PDP governorship candidate in Biosa and in Emo state And we just leave it at that in term government alien to Niger say is the CSO's and cautions against Rwanda's experience Now we have the business in front of us Senate presidency raised stocks stocks Muslim Muslim tickets concern Then again you find Election petition what Nigeria can learn from Ghana and Kenya fight suspension Nigerians cross-border to fly emirate Flight suspension Nigerians cross-border to fly emirate and such for senior officers for next government Tons to CBN governor these are some of the headlines on the business day and then we just quickly look at the The nation newspaper will be lax right to contest my victory to the butels the tribunal. Okay, shatima Validly nominated as running mate APC article PDP cannot query presidents elects Qualification, okay Now this there's been a lot of statement and back and forth with all of this You find how OB was detained in London by aid G5 governors mini Convention plans Deepens as PDP Christon also wasn't so it's like okay The G5 are planning the crisis has not ended national stadiums through a layer the hard facts and more of an editorial presidential Paul most credible in Nigeria's history. That's what Festus Kamo is quoted to say observers report beavers high All of these you find that right? But we'll just leave it at that Nica Gulley is on standby to share his thoughts Nick Thank you once again for joining us Thank you very much messy. I Like you to you know share your thoughts. I'm probably sure that prior to this time you Seen and had the reporter of Peter will be being detained. He's been Impassionated there's an impersonator when he arrived he threw airport. What exactly do you think that this means and What can you say to that? Do you think that there's a conspiracy somewhere? You know in the days of the conventional media Usually news were verified We're confirmed and probably fighting by a reporter who was on the scene or Newspaper houses or media houses including TV and radio stations pick their news from agencies like a news agency of Nigeria and all of that so Then whatever came up in the news was more to be credible than not But these days we live in the days of what perhaps is called the new media Which includes social media and people have platforms global platforms to be able to spew out Whatever they want to spew out some of the things that They are putting out there have some major credibility and some are outright forcehood in these times also we have a Computers that have developed into artificial intelligence and all sorts of capabilities where people Can superimpose people's pictures on particular scenes and make it look as if it's credible Now you can even have people copy my voice and Then use my voice to say whatever they want to say and it will look legit that I'm the one saying it So When this news come out my my own approach to it is that I wait to see it from the Conventional media. I would like to see it on a plus TV or any other TV or read it from a credible source Before I would take to heart Whatever it is if that is indeed the case it will not be long before even the British tabloids We publish it for us and the British TV stations radio stations will pick it up because Peter will be is no longer a non-entity Peter will be as a front-running presidential candidate in a country like Nigeria Which is the signature of all eyes if he has an issue like that it will not be long before we know by obi-dati media and I don't think that if that came from them and You also had the professor who's very notable professor junior. Who's a communication expert? I'm not sure that it's something that We begin to say there was names have been mentioned and however We've also not had the United Kingdom, you know disclaiming that now he was asked to step aside There were witnesses according to that report It was because of the intervention of Nigerians around who had noticed that he had been away for a while and that actually raised Their concern but not for that one cannot actually tell and that was when you know the immigration officers Decided to report that all the sun in post or someone is impersonating him and that's it So just to put it if you look at the cross even on the papers this morning and different, you know Media platforms that has also been made Also, the obi-dati media has not also come out to say someone that statement is not from us So we still think that that's a thing to go by Like I said, we need to give it a bit of a time So I understand where you're coming from I totally get it where you're coming from especially when you are in the United Kingdom, but then Let's turn our attention to other interesting issues as well, which is on the punch newspaper It talks about the fact that Nigerians important not less than nine items worth 18.212 trillion era from the Forex ban list of the central bank of Nigeria that's between 2016 and 2022 and Interesting some of these items just like I mentioned You'll have the cooking Oil you have meats you have other items What are your thoughts to this really that we pre have to import some of the some of them are agriculture or produce or product? What do you make of this There are two things I make out of this story The first thing I make out of this story is that very often you hear the central bank governor Regaining the parallel market as an illegal market as a market that should not be Containers with and things like that and messy this report it shows that the the the money that Disabled used in importing these items that are not on the central bank official list The dollars were sourced from the parallel market So the parallel market at a people. It's a remarket. It's a market. We are those whose Importation needs are not on the official list of the CBM go to and There is no reason why the central bank governor and other policy makers in Nigeria We continue to disparage this market. In fact, I once asked I was in a debate With an economist and I asked him has he ever used his Nigerian debit card To go and spend abroad if we did what is the rate that the banks we use to convert Is Naira to the expenditure that he made in that foreign shop. It is the parallel market rate The bank to know use the central bank rates. So this a parallel market is a remarket and I want The new government and this is setting the agenda for the new government that they should simply cancel that so-called official Market because that official market is actually the illegal market That is the market where people go collect dollars currently at 400 and something era and they just Transfer it to the parallel market and sell it at 700 and something making over 300 naira gain on the dollar Imagine somebody that has access to only one million dollars in the official market If he done takes that market round trips it to the to the parallel market He's going to make 300 million naira without raising the finger to do anything so the the government of The new government coming into office should just cancel that central bank market Let all of us be going to that parallel market to go and source money there If you have dollars to sell take it to that market If you want to buy dollars take it to that market and this should include also government So that we can really know the true Rate of exchange of the naira and the dollar that is the first thing I want to say The second thing I want to say is that it is a shame It is a shame this report should shame all of us Starting from our policy makers our leaders to the every Man on on the street. Why because Why are we going to import things that we can produce in Nigeria by ourselves? Everything that is listed we can produce it here But we are so lazy and we are not producing So we just enjoy going to go and buy from abroad and it is going to buy from that abroad that is making The exchange rates to be weak to to make Niger naira to be weak Because you need a naira all the time to be chasing dollar to buy dollar and the price of dollar is going to go up It's a simple law of demand and supply. So again setting the agenda for the incoming government They should look in words and boost production in Nigeria And they are very simple things that they will need to take very Simple steps that they must take immediately once they get into office One begin to increase the power supply in Nigeria at 3000 megawatts. We keep seeing Crying wailing and pleading that 3000 megawatts of electricity for Nigeria is just too small South Africa is doing 50,000 megawatts. India is doing 400,000 megawatts Can we be doing 3000 that is number one number two There has to be security in Nigeria immediately. So that farmers will go back to their farms And then when the farmers go back to their farms, there has to be Support given to these farmers as we speak today majority of Nigerian farmers are still using their brute force energy bending down with all and cut glass to farm They need mechanization. They need to be supported with mechanization. What a tractor can produce In one year. I mean, sorry. What a tractor can can can produce in one day We take a farmer 10 years of his life To produce it You know, so these are the kind of basic things that Nigeria needs to put in place so that we will rather be the exporter of food And other items instead of going to go and buy and you know the consequence of Of boosting production is that it will not create jobs It will create jobs imagine we have all the mechanized farms We have all the processing factories. They will have the transportation the shipping and all of that majority of these jobless youths that we see these days We'll be gainfully employed when you are asking where are you working? He said I'm working in one tomato plant And it's a multi-billion dollar tomato plant somewhere. I'm working in a in a one yam Processing and this thing I'm working one plantation in this place It is where they'll be working and then in some of these insecurity issues that even we were discussing yesterday We'll be cut there because if the youths have jobs, they will be going to their work You know, they are not going to be available to people to be using For these nefarious arts that we're talking about about Nika. Good. Let's go. These are my two views on this story Yes, so but let's even look at you know, um, what it is that we're talking about because Uh Is it's not that these items that we're importing we don't also produce them here I think that we're producing them here But then again, is it that we're not producing enough? You know to meet the demand or is it that they are substandard? What could be the reason why? We still have to be importing from other countries just like you say what we can produce So I know for instance that I mean there's still production of palm oil, but um Is it enough? Is that the reason why why why would we be patronizing? What you know, we can actually produce why are we buying what we can produce and why are we not big on You know ensuring that we can produce them and rather exports them instead of being an importer of this, uh, you know product I think uh, there are there are two reasons there The first one, which is the minor one is that nigerians over time have come to Uh regard imported products Higher than our locally produced products. That's what some people can package a local rice and and and and write Foreign rice on it so that it will deceive consumers to pay higher prices For what they think is foreign rice, but I think it's a minor reason The the major reason is that we're simply not producing enough locally You see Nigeria's an economy of over 200 million people See a lot of people you see the united kingdom where i'm sitting here. They're only 60 something million 60 something million You see most of these nations you see around the canada is like 33 35 million less than 40, you know So to have 200 million people 200 million as a market. It's a lot. There's so much Mouth to feed so this what we're producing is simply not enough You know and and you know messia. There's a video I showed Uh, I think there's a video I showed on this program one time If you see what mechanized agriculture is What I've been talking about if you leave Lagos all the way to bad or glory all the way to Sokoto Turn around go head to cano to medugri down to potack or cross river No single piece of land will be left uncultivated Everything will be cultivated every piece of land apart from where there's human settlement. There's a body of water or a forest Has a tractor on it that has cultivated No, if we have that in Nigeria messy, you will know That nobody is going to bring a single bag of rice from outside into Nigeria We'll have enough food. We'll attain full sufficiency And then you will see cargo open cargo of rice at a papa being loaded onto ships To export them abroad. So we are simply not producing enough and we cannot produce enough with 3000 megawatts of electricity That's the first point that the incoming government must tackle Again to let's get back to Lagos. It's also on the papers. I'm sure that you probably have seen that building that collapse structure Somewhere, you know, banana island. It reminds us of what happened in 9 11, you know real time City structure going down. However, a few persons are trapped and we hear that Lights have not been lost Some persons have sustained injuries. The government has activated it Well, however, government is saying that the building actually lacked permit What are your thoughts? Do you believe that story that that building would have been erected without government's involvement? I don't believe I don't believe but before I even discuss government involvement Let me say that I watched that video. I think somebody captured it. Maybe it is a security camera because I'm just imagining How someone would have captured the moment that building came collapsing down I watched that thing and it it says You know It's cuddling. It's blood cuddling. That is it. You are showing it now Let me confess to you I now have phobia to climb high-rise buildings in Nigeria I think the the probably the only high-rise buildings I can climb in Nigeria are the ones that have been standing there for years For decades Any new high-rise building in Nigeria? I think Nicagule will have issues trying to climb it Because if we see a building collapse like a pack of cards Thing is meant to be concrete iron and cement. It's meant to be a mixture Sorry of concrete iron and cement and if that thing can come collapsing like a pack of cards It's scary And now to say that the government is not aware the government is aware There is no way you'll be constructing anything anywhere that the government will not know We see it You will be trying to you will be seeing you'll be passing on the road and you see somebody is trying to erect a fence And government will come and mark a big X on it and say urban development board this and that council this and that And now you see a big building like that going up in a place like banana island and government is not aware This is aware the people who are making the constructing the building Must have gone to sort out the government people to take a take their eyes away from what is happening And this is the reason why this thing will continue to happen Unless setting measures are going to be taken Again setting the agenda for the incoming government For something like this between the Lagos state government and the federal government If it means a new law Should be enacted let it be enacted Whoever is involved In this thing from the builder from the owner of the building from the government agencies that should have stopped these people from suppliers of The the raw material the materials for this Building should all be arrested tried and put in way to jail You see messy we will not have a society that we all Love to operating if we are not picking if the government is not picking people off the street. I'm putting them in jail I'm sitting here in the united kingdom But nika gulay. I mean if you say that The federal government and the state government needs to enact laws again. I ask is it that we don't have laws already Guiding it. What's the guarantee that you know, there will be enforcement of this because in 2010 If you follow the pattern of you know collapse building in Lagos over time the Lagos state government had passed into law You know The Lagos state urban and regional Planning and development law that was you know planning law in 2010 And then under that there were three agencies that were created under the ministry to ensure control So you have the um, you have under that the physical planning and development agencies under the ministry So you have the physical planning and urban development Ministry you also have the Lagos state physical planning permit Authority you also have the Lagos building control agencies So within this ministry you have three of these, you know arms working together The reason that we're established is to ensure that There's there's a lot of checks and balances To check all of these excesses in the system and then again we continue to have that So yes, you're having response saying oh this got this this structure didn't have a permit So is it with the laws because what's the guarantee that even if you come up with the law and say oh Whoever is involved they'll be persecuted. It's another same thing We see with people committing crime terrorists killing people and no one is apprehended No one has been arrested if you look at the criminal code. What does he talk about mother? If you look at, you know, there are too many laws So what's the guarantee that you know and not in another law It's going to solve the problem that all those who are involved should be you know Sentenced or imprisoned well We can't even follow the basic laws to ensure that we don't even have all of this happening I agree with you entirely messy. I agree with you that Nigeria is a country of laws. We have so many laws In fact a country like the United Kingdom where I'm speaking to you from now does not even have a constitution The UK does not have a written constitution whereas Nigeria has the constitution we have all sorts of laws So the problem is about law enforcement, you know, the bit we are touched about lawmaking was that If in the current laws that we have There is no specific law that addresses matters like building collapse Where if a building collapses Then the owner of the building the builder himself the architect The engineers Those who supply the building materials the government agencies that should have ensured that that building was constructed in line with regulations All those involved should be picked up Try it and locked away until we begin to lock people away Lock bad people away. Nigeria can never be a good country where we would love to live in This UK where I'm speaking to you from now. They have 80,000 people 80,000 people locked away in prison And some are also in prison at their homes. That's why you call suspended sentence You actually chase someone for three years and suspend it because you allow him to be at his home But you are watching him if he commits that crime again, you will be taken to prison straight away without going through a judge again So until we start picking people and putting them away to prison We are not going to have a country that we enjoy You know, we are not bad people and good people to coexist and that is very bad That is rotten tomatoes with good tomatoes in the same basket That whole basket of tomatoes is going to be rotten and this is the problem we are having So it's more about law enforcement If there are laws already like you are rightly saying in legal state, for instance that prevent things like this or The guide against things like this then let the legal state government act on this By today the owner of that building should be arrested His builder, his architect, his engineers, everyone that is involved in that building should be arrested Put through trial and locked away messy. This is the only way we can enjoy Nigeria All right then, but just as we you know move away from the paper review This would just be the last but it's on the daily trust The fact that the international monetary fund is imploring the government to undertake physical consolidation. They are saying It's okay to tighten fiscal policy increase tax for Nigeria and and and do you think that that's uh You know, do you think that that's really good for economy like more tax at this particular point in time Where unemployment rates has actually gone, you know on the other side It's on the high and then you also have the fact that uh, the Naira scarcity had left us with a lot of scar Then you also also have the fact that we haven't even recovered totally from covet 19 should we think about more tax on the people The IMF Is wrong to prescribe more taxes What we need in Nigeria is to widen the tax bracket And bringing in taxes from people who are not paying tax now In Nigeria, the people paying tax are the poor people Poor people like if you go to the market now, they are cutting their tickets for those market women every day cutting tickets They are paying taxes and then those who are working they take payee from their payslip immediately How much does the dangote pay? How much personal income does the dangote with $3 The the global compassing uh, Tony Lumelu paid last year These are the conversations that we're not having This way in the world people like Tony Lumelu, Dan Gote and Co They will be publishing their tax returns every year so that we nigerians will be seeing that oh They paid x billions at tax because of the money they have they have the big many nigeria are not paying taxes And what government needs to do is to bring them into the tax bracket increase tax on an already struggling population People are finding it difficult to to feed their families Who increase the tax rate it will end up being the same workers who will pay through their payee and those market women So that's what Nigeria needs we need to get the big men to come in with their taxes And then they but then I want to save something Which probably the IMF did it address or the to be a ice away from Messi we have been having issues To manage an economy you need monetary policy with the central bank wrong and you need fiscal policy with the minister of finance For probably the past eight years. There has been conflict between fiscal policy and monetary policy in Nigeria The central bank is busy increasing interest rate to fight inflation The the government is busy going to borrow money from central bank To push it to the economy to to flare up the inflation the more and the government is Building budgets calling the budget of you How can they have a good when interest rate is increasing and Manufacturers are no longer having access to credit to produce So there has been a conflict between these policies and what is needed for the incoming government again setting agenda for the incoming government is To harmonize economic management. Let us have a strong economic management team We have put monetary policy and fiscal policy. We go together hand in hand. There are two lungs In the same body and one cannot be breathing in while the other is breathing out. It's going to be a Catastrophe and that's what we have been witnessing especially in the past eight years Let's just let it go at this point in time. I would continue to talk about those issues We won't relent. Thank you so much for always lending your voice to some critical national Consents right here in Nigeria. We do appreciate you Thank you very much. Merci and a nice day to all our viewers. All right Then that's the size of off the press for us this morning on the breakfast We have been speaking with a public affairs analyst nika ghoule who joined us this morning via zoom From the united kingdom We'll take a break when we return. We'll delve straight to our first conversation. Please stay with us. Good morning