 All right, thanks for staying with us. Now, building skills that transcend geographical location has become increasingly crucial in our interconnected world by focusing on communication, digital literacy, adaptability, problem solving, and continuous learning. Individuals can position themselves to thrive in various settings and seize opportunities beyond physical boundaries. So today we're asking, how can we build skills irrespective of our geographical location? That's the conversation for today. Now, please let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 081-803-4663. You can also tweet at us at WeishuaFQ on UTI in a minute. Do you have any skill that you have learned like that can, that you can literally sit in Nigeria and work from anywhere in the world? Or work with any company in the world around the world? Well, I think the work that I do in customer experience can really be done anywhere in the world because it's a strategic role. So I think that can be done anywhere in the world off the top of my head. I mean, if we're talking about the more technical side of the skills, I don't think that I have anything, but if I take my superpowers in the realm of organization, communication, the ability to touch type, all of this kind of things, I probably would be able to be an excellent virtual assistant. But yeah, I'm not a techie. I'm not playing in tech space. Actually, it would be nice for us to hear from the guests what kind of opportunities would be there. A bit, no problem. I mean, the only reason why I'm sitting in this chair today is because I haven't learned how to earn dollars. Right? Right from my seat here in Nigeria. Because there's no better place to earn. That's why I like to earn. In dollars, yeah. I like to earn in forex. I need anyone as long as it's for currency. So Chuka has a career spanning almost two decades as a tech entrepreneur, software architect, engineer, speaker, and author. It has led medium to large-sized teams and delivered multi-sized software engineering projects for different industries across Africa, North America, Europe, and he is the founder of Studiopedia, a production company leveraging technology to help educators and creatives, rather produce and distribute digital contents globally. He's also the founder of Interstellar Labs, a company that builds developers' experiences using blockchain technology, and he's also the author of Newbie to Techie. He is an angel investor in tech, one of 35 Google developer experts from Africa and a mentor in the Google for Startups program. And he's joined us live from somewhere around the world. I'm not sure where now. Thank you so much, Chuka, for joining us this evening. It's my pleasure to be here. Okay, so this conversation around tech, you see, Uti is very, my ears are very like, like we're standing because I really want to understand because I, okay, so on Wednesday, we had a guest that was talking about how they are using AI to influence learning in Nigeria and already Lagos state and Borno state governments have adapted those solutions in the classrooms. So now students can go up in the cloud and they can do a lot of things. And with the advent of 5G, for instance, they can then start to think of bringing, for if we have Uti, she's the best communications teacher in the world. We can just teleport Uti to all the classrooms across Nigeria, she doesn't have to go anywhere. So I mean, there was a fear about teachers losing their jobs and all of that. I know you would address that. But really, are there really opportunities in the tech world, you know, that can truly change the narrative when it comes to economic power? Because one of the biggest problem I think we have as young people in Nigeria, we do not have skills that can earn us good income, right? So that's why a lot of things that we're so struggling with a lot of things in this country. So are there truly opportunities in the tech world that can transform our economy? Absolutely, absolutely. The opportunities are tremendous. They're very massive. I'd say this, right? Giving where technology is today and where we are going in the world. Technology is becoming the new oil or it is actually now the new oil. And I'm not saying this as a Nigerian who sits somewhere around the world like you mentioned. But I'm saying this because if you take a step back and you see how other countries are leveraging technology and you see how all the advancements that are happening in technology, you talked about AI, you talked about smart computing, you talk about cloud computing, all these things are things that are not gonna slow down. Is this gonna keep evolving? So as technology is evolving, so are the people who will support it need to evolve, right? And because it's now becoming mainstream, maybe take away, if you look back in the early 1920s and the early 1850s, you do know that oil was what was the main thing, oil and transportation via rail. These are the mediums that people would then say, okay, because of those roles, people would want to grow up to either become mechanics or engineers or oil drillers, right? I remember when I was much younger, if you didn't want to be one of the five roles, then it means that you didn't have a future doctor, lawyer, engineer, you know, exactly. But the narrative has changed and it has changed because times have changed. We've gone into the tech age, when the technology era. And I think because of that, many opportunities are gonna open up. The question then is, how do you fit into these opportunities? How do you take advantage? How do you find them? And how do you take advantage of them? All right, so Uti, I'll come to you. But let me just quickly give something that I found when you talked on the platform, right? First, you said there's a global demand for tech skills. Second, you said the advent of AI will not take people's jobs. I want you to explain that. Then you said by 2025, that's very short. 2025 is just two years from now. That 97 million jobs will be created by tech. And you then went on to say 133 million jobs, you know, would come as a result of AI expansion. I don't understand. Like, first of all, 2025 is just two years from now. How can 97 million jobs and we're complaining of unemployment in this country? Well, so I hear you. And I think I'm just going to piggyback on what the numbers were has just said. In the last year, 18 months, maybe even two years, we've had a mass, mass brain drain. Not even brain drain. We've had mass reduction of numbers in the tech world. So face everybody, like literally, I mean, Elon Musk was the devil maybe last year. And then we came into 23, 20, 23 and other people are doing it. So I found these numbers really, really interesting. But in the face of that, I really want to hear, you know, how you're working these numbers and what kind of roles, because I mean, this is the tech world that has literally been shedding people like skin. So, you know, so what would your, I just, I found the numbers intriguing. So really love to hear what you have to say about them. Yeah, so, you know, if you go back to my speech, what I was talking about, just what these numbers are estimates, right? These are estimates based on the evolution of technology. Technology is not going to stop evolving irrespective of the economic conditions that the world is facing. A lot of what is happening with the layoffs have to do with the economic conditions, right? Inflation rates going up around the world, cost of living, going up, earning capacity, reducing. So that's what's causing this squeeze that you're seeing now. Not that technology in itself is going to stop progressing, right? It will still keep progressing. The bright minds are still going to keep creating value. Now, what I was getting at there was that, you know, value will always, will always be something that will be created. And as long as value is created, people need to support that value, right? Not just in technology, even in other roles, but because a lot of people are now embracing and adopting technology as like the main step for how they think about their company and how they think about their business or how they think about solving solutions or solving problems, rather, that in itself is what is going to cause the expansion. Now, to quickly address the point around AI taking people's jobs, right? Here's my own, this is my thesis, right? I feel, you know, the way with the advent of AI, just like with the advent of any new tool or the any new, you know, technology, there's always the fear that, oh, well, these things are going to replace humans. But that's not true. I feel like this will enable humans. So which means it will create more opportunities for users to take advantage of the technology, right? Not replace them. I'll give you an example, right? They used to, we used to assemble cars by hand back, you know, at least 50, 80, 100 years ago. But today we have robot factories and those robot factories have not replaced jobs. Those robot factories still need humans to configure them, keep them running, make sure that automation works, do inspection. So just because replacement is coming in one angle where humans don't have to stress to do that work, it still will create the opportunity for other areas that devoid that the AI technology would sort of feel just like in the robotics case. So I'm saying what my own theory is, yes, AI may make some jobs obsolete. I'm not saying it will replace jobs. It may make some jobs obsolete. However, because those jobs are obsolete and because of the advent of AI, new opportunities will come along. You understand, it's like closing out one road, but new roads are going to be open. This is my own theory and I believe it's so strongly. Now, I don't think, there's some things I don't think AI would really ever take away, right? For example, AI will never, I don't think we'll ever get to the point, well, this is me in 2023. I don't know about 2033 or 2043, but I don't think AI would ever get to the point where it will take care of our children or nanny our children, right? No, we're not gonna force you to do it. It's exactly, there's still some fundamental things that humans will still be responsible for. AI will never replace emotional judgment. AI will never replace, well, never is a strong word, but I don't think we'll get to a point where I will replace emotional judgment and so on and so forth. All these things can still be calculated and rationalized, but I don't think it will ever replace it. And as long as that keeps happening, there will still be existence of jobs. Now, that's one thing. There's other parts to tech that people keep, what's the word, ignoring. You don't necessarily have to be a tech person to work in technology. You don't have to be a coder or an engineer to work in technology, right? I heard what Oji was talking about earlier as respect to customer experience. That's a legit role in tech. When people build solutions, they need to support their customers when their customers are not happy. Guess who are the people that will do it? You need to ask them. Exactly, the customers and serious people. When you think about business strategy and when you're thinking about growing a company. Okay, so I built a solution that uses technology to solve one problem, but I want to scale it across the world. Guess who's going to do it? Somebody who's going to do broad hacking for your company. That is a role working in technology without being a techie. Let me use that word. So, and there are many, many instances of it. People need to do product marketing. People need to do product management. People need to do content development. They need to do sales. There's so many roles that will keep evolving just by virtue of people who are creating value by building companies. And as long as that keeps happening, unless you are saying the world is going to stop building companies and the world is going to stop solving problems. And that is what I'm saying is not going to change. That is always going to be a constant, this decade, next decade, and so on and so forth. I like that you talked about creating value, right? Because that really is what this is all about. You're creating or you're taking something new and you're able to ascribe value to it that somebody else sees as well and is able to take advantage of it. Let's talk about crossing borders and the challenges that we have here in Nigeria. So, I mean, if I take a certain part of Lagos that comes to mind, which is probably the equivalent of our own Silicon Valley and all the different hubs we have in Yaba, it's still a very small microcosm. I know we have some other places that I'm aware of around the country, but given the amount of youth that we have and the challenges that we have with unemployment here and education, I love what you're doing with studiopedia, but how many people are you truly reaching? What are your thoughts around scalability? How can we really get on board? I mean, Uwa mentioned only two states, right? And they're 36? Yes, they're 36, plus the FCT, right? Why are we not seeing more of this sort of key shift to being able to, because these are people who are essentially going to bolster the economy, right? If you can transcend geographical restrictions without having to leave your current location, whatever money you're earning is coming into this economy, right? So, what are your thoughts there around one, why we're not scaling? Two, I mean, really, what's the way forward where we can really embrace this as a country? Because we have a huge youth population and very poor unemployment numbers, correct? Yeah, all right, so I'll take a step back. I'll take you to step back, right? Take a look at India, okay? India, in my own opinion, is probably the biggest exporter of tech talent in the world today, okay? And they are maybe three X or four X our size, right? But they're able to put themselves on the map, not just in terms of exporting talents that actually physically emigrates out, but also exporting skills that with the talents staying back home in their country. And they're earning in the currency that they want to earn. So they're at the forefront of where Nigeria should be at, in my own opinion, or should surpass. So, but to answer your question, it starts with literacy, like it starts with not just digital literacy, but access to internet, right? The first thing is if you have access to the internet, the internet's amount of opinion is free university. A lot of using me as an example, what I've learned today is me just going into these and teaching myself, right? I didn't go through a formal body or formal education or so on and so forth, just like in India, right? So I'm saying if we are able to solve internet connectivity problems around the country, you would have solved like 30% of the issue, because now connectivity is no longer a problem because contents is now where there's access to. And once we have our youth have access to this content, they can upscale themselves and then export themselves. That's the first thing. The second thing is I think it's already happening. It's just happening at a much slower rates than anticipated. And I don't think India got to where they got to in one day. It did take, you know, it took years, right? They started by outsourcing to themselves internally within their own country. Then they started outsourcing externally, right? I think right now we need to get to the point where even we are even hiring our own talent. But the problem is there's not enough of the good talent here to hire because all of them are exporting their talent externally. So what am I saying in essence? For us to be able to rapidly get there because it's already happening. So I don't want to discount that it's already happening. We have the CC Hub, which is a cluster in Yaba. We have Technopart. Timber, I can stay and start to list different hubs and in different tech clusters, right? That is already encouraging and promoting self-education and so on and so forth. We also have schools who are helping people. You know, I talked about this at the platform. We talked about DecaCon. We talked about old school. Talked about, you know, university. These are companies that are helping people to get into tech. But how can we do it in mass? Well, we will need to partner with the government. We will need to partner with the institution, private institutions. These people have the kind of funding, resourcing to be able to do it at scale. We need to partner with the educational bodies that we have existing today. I remember a project that the CC Hub and I and two other stakeholders were thinking about doing that. What's the best way to accelerate tech, not just tech adoption actually, but tech self-learning, digital skills and digital literacy and just teaching yourself things that would make you valuable in the tech ecosystem? And we're like, the easiest way is education. It's like, you know, using the formal educational routes, right, partner universities, both public and private, those kinds of partnerships creating programs and not just creating programs. To be honest, actually putting it as part of curricula, all the way down to primary school, right? Giving students the skill set from primary school to secondary to university. The minute we change our orientation, change our curricula, we will see the dividends of this in let's say five years because you have to put the investment down, right? It's not something that will happen overnight. But if we have the kind of policies that enforce technology learnings for upskilling individually in our educational system from the ground all the way to tertiary, I'm telling you that by the time we're coming out the gates in like five years, we won't be creating a hundred, you know, it may be a thousand or 2,000 graduates who have skill sets that they can export globally will be creating millions of students. Millions and millions of students. That is the way because we have educational bodies. You go to Sokoto, there's to be a university or a polytechnic there, or somewhere close by. You go to Lagos, same thing, go to Calabar, the same thing. So at least our educational bodies are still there and they're still operating. Why don't we just partner with them, partner with education, whether it's the Ministry of Education, whoever it is that needs to be partnered with, we partner with them, bring curricula in so that we can do mass training and mass upskilling. And then we'll see the dividends in about four, five years as they start to grow. Absolutely. All right, so on that note, let's go on a very short break. When we come back from that break, we'll take this conversation for them. So I'm sure some people are itching to know what can I just learn now? Stay with us, we'll be right back. All right, thanks for staying with us. Now if you're just standing, we're discussing building skills that transcend geographical location and we have with us Chuka Ofili. I remember you can join this conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to the rate one, 803-4663, can also tweet at us at Weissho Africa one with the hashtag Weissho. All right, so I mean, this conversation is really, really interesting. And I love what you said about UTI skills because let's use that as our guinea pig, our lab rats, right? So I mean, there are people out there right now and they have this kind of skills that they've built over the years, 14 years, maybe in a company working as a marketer and all of that. And they're thinking, okay, how do I upscale or how do I start to think borderless? How do I start to plan my life in a way that, especially with harsh economic realities that we have, right? So I mean, what would be the quickest way to start to think of digitalizing your skill and converting it into something that you are not just, you're not limited or restricted by your current geographical location that you can now start to earn income from across any part of the world? Dollars, right? It's the game back, okay. You said it. So, yeah. So if you're, I mean, let's break it into two categories, right? We have the technical skills and the non-technical skills. The stereotype before now has always been you need to be, learn some technical skill to earn in foreign currency. And while that may be true, you can far outend most other roles in technology, but they're still the non-technical ones, right? CX is one of them. Now, which one is the easiest path? Well, it all depends on you. It depends on your personality type. It depends on what you like to do or what you already know how to do day to day, right? If, for example, you're someone, and this hypothetical example, if you're someone who is, let's say, a project manager for construction, okay? What do you do daily? You go to sites, you make sure that, you know, the break layers are there. You make sure that the engineers are there. Like you're sort of like the foreman who makes sure that things happen on a day to day. If you don't see one of your resources or your artisan, you call them, where are you? What's the follow-up or what's the status of this? And so on and so forth. But you're the project manager, right? And then the real owner of the project reaches out to you or the owner of the building reaches out to you and you give them updates. And then the updates you're giving them is basically information based on the fact that you're on site and you extracted all the information from your artisan. That is what a scrum master does, right? And a scrum master is a role that just works with, first of all, organizes and plans the sprints, organizes and plans the cadence for the work that's actually done. The person doesn't actually do the work, but the person extracts the information, keeps all stakeholders aligned, keeps all stakeholders informed, and makes sure that the team is running in a healthy, efficient manner. That is the same thing as what a project manager does. Now, to transition, all you'd have to do would be look for some program online. As many of them, Udemy, Udacity, and so on and so forth, do a short three-month course or short two-week course or what have you, depending on the kind of role you want to transition in. Once you take that, all right, you now have the skill sets. So once you have the skill sets, the next difficult to be okay, how do I actually get paid for the skill set? How do I find my first role? Well, there's many ways. You can find ways to intern locally, give your skills for free, and then when you're doing it for free, you get experience, and when you get experience, you get on your CV, and then now you can actually look for remote jobs and there's sites that you can go to, right, remote.com and so on and so forth. There's so many of them online where you can actually go and look for remote work and take applications. You might not get the first one, but if you keep applying the consistency is key. The one thing you should always do is if you ever get rejected, let them know the reason why they're rejecting you so that you can go and fix it. If they tell you, oh, you lack this, you know, there's a gap in your skill set, you don't have this set. Then you can go online and look for a course that would kill that gap, do some work around, make sure you can find experience to intern so that you actually get the experience of the skill set because theory knowledge is different from actual practical knowledge. And once you have that, you can then reapply again and then you keep reasoning and repeating that process until you now realize, okay, I think you filled all your skill sets gaps until you are now actually, you land your first job. You might get 300 nodes, but the first yes that you get, most likely you just become a yes moving forward, right? And hey, I don't want to do shameless plug, but let me do it anyway. I wrote a book. The book is called Maybe to Techie. And the book sort of articulates everything, like the journey from moving from a non, someone who does not work in tech, who wants to transition into technology, whether you are a primary school student, secondary school student, graduates, or someone who already has a full-time job as a doctor or physical, but there's many success stories of people who have transitioned, right? They've come from, you know, being a physiotherapist or, you know, architects or estate managers, and they've all transitioned into tech, earning six-figure jobs in their broads, some here working remotely, some have emigrated. And it's just because of this same strategy, right? It's just really about finding information of skinning yourself, looking for the relevant experience, rains and repeats, that's it. Okay, I like what you've said. This is our book. I hope we have a soft coffee, or you're going to send us a coffee, which one? It's on Amazon. So there's a physical coffee combined in Nigeria, but then also it's on Amazon, right? I can always send you the link of how to get it. Please do. Please do. Honestly, we would love to have that. Go ahead and see. I like this nice, concise strategy that you've put forward. But I think that we also have a challenge locally, and I guess some of our viewers will be thinking that internships are not the easiest of things to come across in our world, right? And then there's also the fact, like I hear you say, apply, I mean, take you 300 applications and you'll get your first yes. But that transition, yes, there's some transferable skills, then there are things that you can obviously go and learn like all the different things that you teach at Studiopedia, but the fact is it still comes down to that experience. So if I'm struggling to find an internship locally, are there any possibilities internationally as well? Yeah, it's a good question. There are, there are opportunities internationally. They say that sometimes they're not just publicly available, but they are there, they're there. I know there was, I think there was a company, I think it was a student or so that was locally trying to connect people to international internships, but even the international internships to your point are very scarce. So I was even at a meeting, was it not, sometime last week where I was talking about, oh, it was actually at the platform, where I was saying to companies that my charge to companies how they can help is by also creating internship programs. One of the early startups that I did in every science with my partner, Larry, they took your daughter, we did, that was how we were taking in young developers. So we'd sort of like, there was some sort of like, known secrets with the Yabata community and Yila community. Every time it was time for them to do their sewers. They knew that our company used to take interns. So we'll take interns, usually they were green and we'll work with them for three to six months during that internship program. We'll sort of train them. What tend to happen is when they go back to school, when they graduate, they always want to come back and at least take their first year or two with us because they know that this was their breeding ground for them to learn. And that's what kickstarted their journey. I know it doesn't directly answer your question, but if there are a lot more companies that did what we were doing, right? Everybody's always looking for finished products that is shiny and employee who already has all the skills. But someone needs to start somewhere, right? And working with companies to get them to start internship programs, I think is something that we can do to sort of solve the internship scarcity. And it's not a Nigeria thing, it's just a global thing, right? To your point. So one day at a time. Okay, so Chuka, let's come back to the biggest elephant in the room. Yeah. Even though people think that these unemployment numbers is largely related to young people, it's not. There are people that are old, they don't have jobs, you know, and they wish. So is there anything like age restrictions to these skills that one needs to think about? Because somebody might be in their fifties, they don't have any job and they're just looking, what can I do? How can I begin to earn money? Is it too late for me or can I start now? What exactly would you say to that person? I'd say that that is absolutely just not true. That's absolutely not true. So it depends on, but I'll say one thing, it does depend on the kind of role you want to, right? I feel at least culturally, right? In Nigeria, older people find it difficult working for much younger people, right? I'm not saying that there aren't people who do it, it's just a cultural thing. But if you don't have that cultural issue, that cultural bias, then the sky's the limit for you, right? I think all you have to do, you can obscure yourself just like any other person. You have the same brain, you have the same skill set you can learn just like everybody else. And once you've learned, you can get opportunities just like anybody else. The world in general, at least what from where I sit have experienced it. I've seen older people who've gotten jobs at entry-level software development roles. But that's if you want to become a software developer. But if you want to be a CX person or you want to be a product manager or you want to be a project manager or you want to do design or you want to do graphics, it doesn't matter what you want to do. What matters is your skill set and your portfolio of work. It doesn't matter that you are... The technology is not ageist. That's what I'm saying. It's just only the earlier point that I made in Nigeria because culturally, right? It's just a cultural thing. You don't want to go into a company. But if I came to Yutuka and I was 65 years old, I already gathered the skill. Would you employ me in your company? Why not? I would look... What I'm not looking at is your age. I'm looking at your portfolio of work. Am I capable? What matters? Yes, it's the portfolio of your work. If you show me the things that you can do and that you've done, why would I not employ you? Why would I not employ you? I say, you would employ the best candidate for the role. It's just quite simple, right? Who's the best candidate? But in many instances, sometimes, you might not even be employing one person. You might be employing quite a number of people. It doesn't negate age. It's just a number. And the sooner we start seeing it that way, the better. Yeah, absolutely. I think it would be great. I mean, absolutely age is a number. It would be great if a lot of people saw that because when you were talking about, yes, you would absolutely hire the person. I'm thinking a great many number of companies have policies that define what retirement age is. And for a lot of companies, 65 is a retired, like they're retired, not even just like about to be retired, right? Okay, let me interject. I'm sorry, I know you wanted to land you, but let me interject. There isn't a rule that says you must work for a company. You can also freelance. There's freelancing. This is a whole world that I didn't even talk about. All the world I've been talking about is exporting your skills to tech companies that are in Netherlands or in Amsterdam or Germany, wherever. But there's freelancing. There's sites like Upwork. There's sites not even Upwork. There's sites like TopTal, Total, right? There is sites like Geekstar. There is sites like Fiverr. All these people are, all these companies are freelancing companies. So if you've learned how to do copywriting, copywriting is something that is needed quite in tech. What's copywriting? It's not even a tech role per se. It's a role. You see people do it. If you learn how to do copywriting, you can go to Fiverr, list your services. They don't, nobody cares how old you are. On TopTal, nobody cares how old you are. What matters again is your portfolio of work, right? I just wanted to call that out here. You don't necessarily have to do a 95 job. You can also freelance. And I dare say you probably will make a lot more money freelancing than you would do in a 95 job. Okay, I'm sorry. I interjected, but I wanted to see. You want to continue? Yeah, well, I mean, you took out the legs from my question very elegantly. So well done. But I think that you've sort of, you've said enough to wet our appetites, right? And I'm mindful that when we have these sort of conversations that we're really trying to stick in that straw and just suck at as much knowledge as possible, time runs out. So I think I would like a paint by numbers, right? We've talked about the opportunities. We talked about, you know, you can go here, you can do this. For the person who's listening today who says, you know what, this all sounds very interesting. I wanted to work without geographical restrictions. And like I said, I want to end dollar. Where? Give us a paint by numbers. What should I do first? Where should I be looking? What? So we've said the baseline, which is have an internet connection. But then the internet is super vast. Like I could get lost in one Google search for a couple of hours and come out on the other side and still be like, huh? So just a couple of tips to say, you know what, this is what you should do first. This is what you should do, where you should go. I mean, maybe you plug, you know, dot, dot, dot. But anyway, I studied product management. I did internship. Let me come back to that. Go ahead. So yeah, just to give something that our viewers can, you know, maybe just take note. Quickly, because I have one more question before I run out of time. Go ahead. Yeah. So, sorry, I'm trying to position my screen. Make sure that the lighting is good. Sorry, they're getting. It's fine. Yeah, okay. So the first things first is I'll say udemy.com. If you don't take anything away from this, what the show you're watching, use udemy.com. Now, udemy.com is a platform where people like you and I, who have skill sets, who know, you know, maybe something, maybe they know software development or they know project management or product management or they know Scrum or what have you, have prepared courses and put it on there so that people like, you know, fresh entrance into technology who want to learn can then go there and pay, you know, a very small fee. Usually the courses are very, very affordable. Anywhere between, say, $20 to $50, it's all depending on what you want to learn. Now, quite all right, some of the quality of the content might be entry-level things, but it's enough to whet your appetite so that you can then go for the more advanced courses, right? If you want to go for the more advanced courses, then you can then do something like Udacity, which then gives you actually a nano degree, which is very helpful because it then strengthens the quality of your portfolio. So if anything, right, udemy sort of gives you access to thousands of courses, thousands of lessons, which kind of like get you going. The biggest question you have to ask yourself is what do you want to do? And like I mentioned earlier in the show, that is well-dependent on many things about you, your personality type, what you like to do, what you love to do, you always want to go there. Yes, yes, exactly. So those are the things that you have to watch out for. Now, again, shameless plug. I said I wrote a book. So go to books.iamchuka.com. The name of the book is maybe to techie. I have itinerized everything there from beginning to end. I know the show is only taking part of it, but it kind of works you through a journey of how you can start transitioning. I think most of all the questions that we may want to ask, even beyond the show, have been answered there, but I'm still here to take more questions. So one last question. Our daddy, Elon Musk said the remote work is his job. Elon Musk said the remote work is his job. You know, our dad. He was Elon Musk, doesn't he dad? He said remote work is his job, because as it is now, they are beginning to see that, come, everybody fire back to office and don't do remote work and everything. How would this affect? They don't want to hear that. She has come us. So how would this affect tech jobs, right? Especially for people that have gotten tech jobs, you know, like, you know, I mean Nigeria, I'm working for a company in Canada. So how would this if people start to go back to the original structure of going to a physical location? How would this impact it? So first of all, my own opinion, I don't think we will ever really completely go back to return to office. That's the first thing. Elon Musk's saying remote work is his job. Of course it's his opinion, but he's seeing the impact of remote work on his business. And it depends on the kind of business that you're running. For example, CX is going to be hard to do from home. You need to be in the contact center. Like there's some rules that you should technically be around. And I'm not going to deny that there is certain level of quick progress you make when you are in the office with your colleagues, right? There's nothing as good as the tap on the shoulder to say, hey, how about this? Help me unblock, so on and so forth. While all those are true, remote work is not going anywhere. This is the new dispensation. I don't think it's going anywhere. The worst that will happen is that companies will then switch to like a hybrid, situation where people go to the office once or twice a day, sorry, twice a week, and then work from home. But working from home sort of is, I know how much companies sort of saved from closing down a good chunk of their offices. How much that affected their bottom line. Instead, they took some of the savings they do from office and gave their people work from home resources. So it depends on what side of the spectrum you stand. I think there are benefits to working from home and then there are also obvious advantages to coming into the office. But I think where we probably will most likely settle and where the world is going is a hybrid situation, right? And what companies will start to do is they'll have some roles that will be like, okay, this can be remote only. And then they'll have some other roles where they'll be like, oh no, at least 90% or 80% in office. That's where we're going as a product. All right, so we'll watch out to see what we have. But quickly, let's read just one comment. Let's say this comment. I mean, first and foremost, I'm happy to see this comment from the center. I was thinking about him earlier in the show going, I mean, I just wonder what happened to him. So, Daniel, we're excited to see your message again. Thank you for sending it in. And he says, good evening, my dear beautiful sisters of all. Are you saying hashtag ways? Building skills that transcend geographical location. Your guest made mention of something very important. He said that you do not have to be an engineer to be involved in tech. And this is very true and key. He also said something about use, developing skills to improve the internet system. He gave an example of a site manager developing skills in the site with his own ideas. Someone who is skillful enough should partner with the government for support. Or ask a question about age restrictions when it comes to getting jobs with a school full person. And he must confess that we look irresistible today. I had to find time to put that in. God bless you too, Daniel. Thank you, Daniel. Well, thank you so much, Chuka. We are hoping that when you're in Nigeria, you can grace our set physically. Because we had a fantastic conversation. This was really, really worth our time. It's a beautiful way to wrap the weekend. Thank you so much, Chuka, for being a fantastic guest. We are going to look for your book. Me and Google find it because I want to find money. All right, so before we go, I'm sure you follow us across all our social media handles. You can interact with us further. Drop your comment and more importantly, follow all our engagements on social media, like, share, and invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation. I've missed our course for today. Here it is again. Skills open the doors to opportunities. They break every economic boundary and empower society to maximize their potential. Nothing else is that powerful. So if you really want to change the status quo today, go and learn a new skill and look for Chuka's book. It will help you out. All right, thank you so much, everyone. Have a lovely evening.