 Great. Thank you for joining the faith-based tech connection. It's been a while. I think it's been since July since we met as the faith-based chat. Today we're going to be talking about copyright and trademark protection, but it's so much more than that. I was just talking to somebody a few minutes ago and we were just talking about how nonprofits should, yeah, copyright some of their materials, your logo. We talked about the breast cancer awareness. Everybody knows that pink logo and who owns it? Susan G. Coleman. There's so much more to what we're going to discuss today. If this is your first time here at TechSoup, I just want to show you how you can engage today, please stay on mute for the quality of the recording. At some point during the presentation, we'll stop and ask if there's any questions and you can use the raise your hand option or just wave because sometimes people can't reach it fast enough and then we will ask you to unmute yourself and then you can ask your question. I'm so excited you know I'm always excited we have a guest speaker because I don't like doing all the talking and today we have camera major Morris. I have a confession to make. I saw her on the news when I was watching the news one day and just was so impressed and so amazed of the tips that she was sharing for free about copyright and trademark and yes I stopped her and had her trademark my business and I asked her would she be so kind to come and share with you. So I am so honored that she is here with us today. So camera I'm going to turn it over to you and thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much Aretha. I am excited to be here and I want to thank everyone for taking some time out today to join us for this very important topic and just a little bit about me before I share my screen. I am camera major Morris and I am a solo practitioner in the central Florida area been practicing for 13 and a half years and my one job is really to educate and advocate for brand owners which include faith-based businesses as well as creatives and my primary practice area is intellectual property which includes copyrights, trademarks, trade secrets. I'm not a patent attorney but I work with anything that touches on those subject matters which led me to this topic. So as a choir member it came to my attention that our choir some years ago needed a church copyright license. This was even before I had finished my education in law school when I started doing these presentations and was just amazed with how much people need to know about this to protect themselves and their establishment. So it brings me great joy to share this topic with you today. I'm going to see if I can figure out how to get my screen share back up. Let's see if I can get it right. Share screen and I'm doing and watch doing that. Feel free to type in the chat room if you have a question or any comments. Feel free to type in the chat room once we get started. So this is a my disclaimer that nothing in this presentation is intended as legal advice and this is merely informational for educational purposes and it's not a substitute for a hiring attorney. All right and we're just going to jump right in. So when we think about church and the copyright or intellectual property law we don't have a lot of time so I'm going to condense this very complex material for you and then Aretha has the slides that you're welcome to pour over and please do contact me if you have any specific questions about the slides I'd be happy to clarify any points here in because a lot of times even within hour there's still going to be questions. So this is a very broad overview and so copyrights and trademarks are federal laws and we assume that we don't have to think about these things when we are talking about faith-based businesses but the keyword is businesses and we do. The reason why a lot of times people assume this is because of the church the religious service exemption that is a part of copyright law but it's very important that we as leaders understand these just the basics no one's requiring that you know the intricacies of IP law but just the very basics will help to put you and your group in a much better position. So what are the basics? If you are a copyright owner then you are going to have six exclusive rights. Now the the subject of ownership is a little complicated because originally if you create something you are inherently the author. You're going to be the author of the work and so when we say create something it has to be in a tangible form. That means I know we've all heard someone say I had that idea first well if you had the idea and you didn't write it down you didn't record it in any way that means that you were not going to be able to claim a copyright in the subject. So you have to put it in a tangible form. What is copyright subject matter? We're talking about music and for this for the purpose of this discussion it is primarily going to focus on music what musical works and literary works things that are performed in a worship service but here at the bottom on the paragraph there are eight categories of subject matter that are protected by copyright law. Now if you own a work if you have a copyright in a work then you automatically have that copyright the moment you create it but you will not have the authority to sue anyone unless you have a copyright registration. So here are the six exclusive rights the right to reproduce the work that just means making a copy of it. The derivative works that's sometimes an issue when we are worshiping and we take a song and do our own version of it and then we stream it across the internet. The copyright holder has that exclusive right so these are the things to be clear that you need permission for unless you have a license. Now the main one is the performance right the right to publicly perform the song and that is the subject matter for religious services because under copyright law there's a clause in there called the religious service exemption and it says that if you are in and the key phrase is a place of worship then you are exempt from the requirement to have a permission from the author so you if you are in a place of worship obviously these are very old laws and now technology has made it so we can be in our homes we can upload things and watch services on zoom we can watch them on television and so now the the legal definition of in a place of worship has stayed the same as it was before all this technology was created so that means unless a religious service organization has a license then they are going to fall outside the exemption which is a fancy way of saying they're going to be infringing on someone's rights so and these things are very affordable and so the church copyright license is a very important thing to know about if you are in the business of conducting or streaming or producing religious services so here's some basic rules um you cannot assume that be if you see it online then it's in the public domain i get that a lot on that which is interesting and the funny example i always tell people is if you see a child walking down the street it has parents and so just because you don't see the parents doesn't mean the child doesn't belong to someone and think of that when we're talking about creative works someone created it we have to ask someone for permission unless there's some other circumstances non-authors can become copyright holders this is really important if you have interns or other people working with your team because you could as an establishment get them to sign a work for hire agreements and agree to divest their copyrights in in exchange for something else and so that's something to consider also in the employee setting if i years ago i was a video editor hbo and all the things that i was editing for the company that creative content belong to hbo because i was a i was that was something that i was expected to do in the course of my job um so but the author again is always the original copyright holder but without some sort of relationship like an employee employer relationship without paperwork work for hire agreements to transfer those rights then those rights remain with the copyright holder so that's i'm going to skip through because i know we don't have a whole lot of time but here are some key points to consider that you can review when you have some time because i really want to get through the meat of this presentation but this is just talking about how copyrights are transferred here's some different examples one thing i want to highlight here is that last one on the bottom left that says the intent is not required these are what we call strict liability laws and so many times people will say well i i had no idea and we also and in doing these presentations for religious organizations people lean on the fact that this is for you know a worthy cause just as a lot of other non-profit organizations have worthy causes however the purpose of this only comes into play when we're talking about fair use and fair use is a whole different um standard that requires a lot of scrutiny so you or i cannot just walk up to a situation and look at it and say yep that's fair use unless it's something really obvious like it's on the news that's why or movie critics that's how they're able to show movie clips and give their opinions about these different things because there's certain examples for that these are the factors right here that are considered for fair use situation so the purpose and character of the use is it for commercial purpose or non-profit educational purposes that's the part that confuses people because they say see um this is for non-profit however look at the other three factors the nature of the copyrighted works so musical works are protectable under copyrighted law the portion of the copyrighted work used so many times if the choir is singing is the choir going to sing the whole song have a friend who says yes or yes yes the choir is going to sing the whole song and so the portion of that also will take it outside the fair use doctrine the effect of use on the market this is really something i want us to focus on today the effect of the use on the market for the of the work and the fair market value so if Kirk Franklin or to had a talk about a lovely discussion with Grammy award artist Donald Lawrence a few weeks ago and we were talking about the effect the impact that the non-payment of these musical works will have on an artist it can make a big difference now now we're streaming and these performances are more traceable than they were when we were solely relying on the DVDs and the CDs so just imagine just imagine if your church does not have a license and you perform a concert your choir performs a concert and then that performance is recorded so the performance of it in a place of worship would have been okay under the exemption but the moment it's recorded without a license is a violation of copyright law then what do we do we we stream it the moment we stream it that's another violation of copyright law because if you go to those six exclusive rights that were on one of the earlier screens and you can see that if a person owns the work these actions are violations the recording of the work the streaming of it the reproduction how many times have we um had a made copies of these CDs and concerts and then we're selling them and not a penny of that was going to the creator of the work so as religious establishments there are people who are trying to be on the right side of the law and have this these high standards these moral standards so we have to be aware of these things instead of saying I didn't know that that was stealing I didn't know this and so these are the basics when it comes to that and so we talked about this I summarized this for you can spend some more time on this screen just want to make sure I get through it the licenses and so here are some things that the church licenses do so not I've not been paid to endorse any one organization for church copyright licenses but you could spend some time going to church copyright solutions that's one provider of these licenses CC li is another those are the the major ones and what they have done is they have teamed up with the PROs also known as the performing rights organizations that are in charge of paying the artists for these public performances of their work so and these licenses are very affordable we're talking about for a congregation of maybe I think there's a scale on one of the pages I'm sure on both of the websites but roughly speaking your congregation might be paying $400 a month for a congregation of 500 or less you know if you the larger the congregation the larger the annual licenses this is not weekly or monthly or every time that's we're talking per year and you could have a license that would make sure that all of these artists get paid now we have also on our list to talk about the trademarks and I just want to highlight this screen for you because it's a summary sorry it's a summary of the advantage in the copyright registrations if your organization owns content so we talk first we talked about the content that belongs to others but if your organization owns content you own you produce your own original things your pastors have sermons that they want to protect because this also that creative content could be owned by the establishment that the pastor works for but if you have creative content videos original music you would go to copyright.gov and there's so much information on there to show you how to register your own copyrights you don't necessarily have to have an attorney to help you file a copyright registration what are the benefits with a copyright registration you can sue someone for copyright infringement you can't do that without one although you're automatically the author you have to go through this process very inexpensive process it's a $65 filing fee per work and then of course you would have attorney's fees but if you own a copyright registration and you find someone violating your rights then you would qualify what's called for what's called statutory damages more than likely and that's just a fine that the other person would get for violating on top of whatever profits you know you may have lost you would also potentially qualify for attorney's fees so why not spend the $65 protecting your creative content and then no statutory damages I keep doing that I'm sorry went the wrong way those statutory damages here we go are you see that between $750 and $150,000 per work per party so just to put that in perspective per person emailed or per copy made so those those are real numbers now for brand identity trademark protection um that covers your business name your church name your logo that you might be using or any other symbol or slogan that you might have and you might think it's not important to protect that however look at all the virtual business we're doing and so if you have a church name that's confusingly similar to another someone might accidentally make a donation to the wrong entity um or you know someone could intentionally engage in unfair competition with your organization so it's really important for you to take these things seriously because these assets these are assets that will raise the value of your organization as well as build your goodwill and reputation in the community um one example that I have for you is for example the Black Lives Matter movement and when that first started there weren't many people that I don't think the phrase had existed before this group of women started it but eventually there were so many so many copycats and donations were going to the wrong organization and after a while the the phrase became sort of generic under the eyes of the trademark office or under trademark law because so many people were using it it became labeled as a political phrase I say that to say that your brand value should be protected as soon as possible and locked in and you should start enforcing those rights because the longer it goes unprotected the the more likely it's going to be weakened or it's going to leave them for other people that are closely aligning themselves with with a similar identity out here so think of it as we have personal identity that think of it as business identity that that goes on under these trademark rules so what can you do sorry um as a as an as an organization you want to have your church copyright license if you are at all recording your services if you are at all streaming your services even for remote worship services the church copyright licenses many times will just cover one location and let's say there's a school that's attached to your building that the performances in that other building are likely not going to be covered under the same license so you do need to understand what's covered and what's not to make sure you're on the right side of this for those people who use contractors from the community you can come in whether it be interns or um you know your minister of music or someone's creating original music that you're using that you want incorporating your service some of the due diligence things that you can use would be to have the people sign off on what's called warranties and representations that just means that they're not giving you something that's infringing on third party content um and then also if you have people helping you um in any way with content you want to make sure if they've given you a license that you understand what the limitations on that license are whether it be for a territory do you have the exclusive rights to use this piece of music or this piece of art so these things definitely have to be reviewed whenever you engage in those discussions I have also added some um frequently asked questions at the end of this presentation but I do want to pause for a moment and address any questions that you might have let me check the chat because I had not been checking the chat to see uh will be posted online okay so Aretha's answering those do we have any questions Aretha? Yes we do and if you'd like to come on and ask live you can because some of them I wasn't sure I one need to be rephrase rephrase by Family Ministry Center you want to come and ask your question live unmute yourself please if you're speaking I can't hear you you ask about can I copyright online yes can I copyright a my website or content within the website if it's obviously unique absolutely absolutely and so the creative content and how would you do that there are categories for copyright protection there are literary works their musical works there are audio visual works and so yes you would upload you would take screen shots of your website or you would upload the copy in a word document or pdf document and that's how you would do that thank you and then David did you want to ask your question live you said how does royalties play how does this play with royalties but I was sure which part you were speaking of do you want to unmute yourself and ask your question live okay and someone asks why does copyright or trademark ends after 10 years oh that's a great question okay so we could slow down I just wanted to make sure I gave you the the meat and so now I can go back and color in some of this the shade in some of the areas so these things copyright registrations and I think it's in one of your slides copyright registrations are valid for the life of the author plus 70 years so as I was speaking about this content that you might find online and just assume that it's in the public domain the things that are in the public domain are the things that are over obviously the life of the author plus the 70 years but also works that are owned by the government are in the public domain you do have to verify that so to verify whether something's in the copy in the public domain you could go to copyright.gov and then do search the records and you can look it up under the author's name or under the title of the work sometimes the copyright office records are not current which would apply to more recent works but you should be able to find things that are in the public domain of that way to verify so copyrights do last longer than 10 years obviously to answer your question the trademarks can last for as long as you maintain them so if you register a trademark where are we now 2022 then in 2027 starting from let's say we get a trademark today September 15th September 15th 2027 there's a window for maintenance that opens up and you have a whole window to do your maintenance which means you have a whole year to say to the trademark office and show them that you're still using your trademark you will pay a small fee at that time then between your ninth and tenth year anniversary you would do the same thing the fee that time is a little larger after that time then it's every 10 years you report to the trademark office to let them know you're still using the mark so as long as you maintain it then your trademark is not going to expire wow it's a lot to keep up with David said how does this play with royalties say if he has employed a musician and he creates music for the church how does the royalties play with that situation well the musician is responsible for uploading what's called a split sheet to the pro he has as cap of bmi representing him for those performance rights and then also there are other kinds of royalties your mechanical royalties your um your streaming royalties so there are different kinds of royalties and it would be on the musician and you first leave an agreement for those terms and then you would have to report to those agencies that are responsible for monitoring and paying the the creators or the owners as well okay this is a good question from beck she says um um are there any copyright stuff needed in the situation your own zoom um it's for a small group your playing a worship song that you found on youtube and you have the song lyrics on the slides is there any copyright oh yes oh yes and so um all right so let's start with what was the first part your it was all of that was it's a small it's a small group say it's a small church is on zoom they're you know playing worship songs that they found on youtube right okay so youtube is for the user you know how you have to subscribe it's not it's not um the subscription if you read the fine print you're not supposed to be displaying or um having there's a limit even and i have to look at exactly what the number is but this goes for um movies as well so if you invite you now you have youth night whenever you're having this public performance then the you have to look at the license to see what the intention and the limitations are on the terms of use so now streaming if you're already on youtube that's a streaming platform and then basically what you're saying is you are not only using your performance license to play it on youtube but you're sharing it with another platform so let's just say it's facebook and you are you said zoom either one they have they have rules as well in their um terms of use for intellectual property violations and if you don't have permission to share this public performance and upload it then you are in violation of the platform's rules as well as youtube's rules because the license probably did not grant that permission to do that and then as far as the lyrics on the screen we didn't even get into that too much but the king james version of the bible is the only version that's in the public domain and so if you go back to um going to go back here a few slides if i can for these exclusive rights so that you can um be reminded of what they are because i think that this is helpful it's just something we don't think about it's just it's not common sense for so for anyone who is feeling like they should have known this um don't feel that way at all so let's go over these if the copyright holder has these six exclusive rights the right to reproduce the work okay an example of that would be what if you go into the studio where you record another version of the song um you make some sort of copy if it's paperwork the right to produce derivative works based on the original so that one is self-explanatory also this goes for if you find a graphic online and then you resize it and you do all these things so it can fit your newsletter um you know do any kind of photoshop that it would be a derivative work for a visual piece of work the right to sell or lease copies of the original you know obviously not um sorry keep doing that with my mouse let me go back uh really lost it i flew okay and the right to perform this is the main one with church copyright compliance the right to perform the work publicly the right to display so there's your rule when it comes to the display of the lyrics on the screen in that in that question the right to display the work publicly you see and so where you have a scripture for example um if the king james version is the only version that's in the public domain that means for many of the other translations it really is an option for the owner of that work to enforce their rights against your organization you know if it's a small group you know obviously there be the likelihood of someone coming after you for displaying a scripture of all things is going to be small but the point of this is many of us um you know when when i whenever i do this presentation i like to frame the expectations and of course the law is the law our most church is going to do this a hundred percent probably not uh but the goal is if you don't know what the rules are then you are inevitably going to break them if you do know what they are then you can try to incorporate some practices so that you can at least meet your moral obligation to respect these creative rights we all come here with gifts and so this is a way that we can honor each other's gifts the right to perform in the case of sound recordings and so that's just a specific thing for audio works and streaming is what that one is pertaining to so i would definitely spend some time on these six exclusive rights to make sure that understanding why these are violations because this is a copyright law is very specific as to what the the um the areas are that the author of the work would have the right to enforce and if you go back to this one screen that shows what they can do um then you want to think about what am i putting my church or my establishment in a situation where i'm increasing the liability with these practices because it can get very expensive if you look at these just imagine your organization would have to pay for attorney's fees infringement and the book that i have um out it's called um copyright compliance for churches it's available on amazon and barns and noble and it goes through some more explicit examples of this um but the main thing in it is that you can have some idea and just really appreciate what the rules are and why and i what i the reason where i was going with that is that there are specific examples in there of churches actually being sued and so um that's a lot of times a question i get um what does this really happen you know am i just being over the top so i have real cases in there real examples where you can understand that um that this does happen has happened a lot of times these things settle outside court just because it's embarrassing um it's less money to settle a case outside the court um and people can save their reputations because many times people don't know and they don't take it as seriously as they should but when they get hit with the paperwork then the settlement discussions ensue okay there are a lot of questions in the chat but i want to give you all an opportunity to ask because i don't want to read your question and then misread the way you really want to express it so if you would um stop sharing your screen so we can see the faces because sometimes people are waving hey me oh sure so i'm gonna um ask you to use the raise your hand option or just raise your hand so that i could see you there was a great question in here um just for those who asked are we are we sharing the slides yes the slides and the video replay will be emailed to everyone who registered if you did not register it'll be on our youtube channel so i see gerard i hope i said it right go ahead and ask your question please thank you appreciate it um so we're a small catholic non-profit that trains ministers to go into prisons and jails and we form people through restorative justice and part of our work is uh town halls and webinars for ongoing education and formation for our ministers and oftentimes our presenters have power points that they like to share or that accompany their presentation and sometimes they have a picture that they may or may not have the copyright to for example we had a steve you wonder in one of them and we had president joe biden showed up in one another different one um and after the town halls and webinars we post a recording and we also like to include a pdf of the power point if the presenter is comfortable with that twice now in the last six months we've gotten dinged by pick rights for 250 bucks for use of images that aren't ours um and we're hosting something from someone else and you know short of policing for lack of a better word our presenters material is there another avenue that we can pursue or something else that we can do to protect ourselves i would say that um maybe and thank you for that question it might be good for you to share in the in the invitation in the speaking invitation that um you prefer not to have any pick you know please don't use any images other than you know the ones that are available in these loyalty free galleries um so you might want to just share whatever your include that in your standards of procedure anytime you have these invitations otherwise you would just say that it's it's a liability it's a liability risk for you to it is is for you to re-air this presentation that you haven't done the copyright claims this for so i will put it on them to say that there's a chance we may not be able to um show this you know because of these copyright concerns you know to increase your likelihood of you know this be having more exposure please do x y z something like that thank you gunner i appreciate it wow thanks for sharing that that was a great question jarragh okay first Tina i'm hope i'm saying your name right please i'll meet yourself yes hi everyone thank you so much this is an amazing presentation um my question was for i kind of work with pastors and nonprofit founders and i wanted to ask is there a way if the church wanted to sort of create a website that it could you know white label as a way to generate funds um how it would go about doing that and also i don't know if you can answer this one but in relation to like a the church and nonprofit doing an entrepreneurship program or an apprenticeship program and being able to protect its material i'm looking to work with pastors and and they're the business owners in their congregation as well as nonprofit founders in their congregation to create um you know a system for an entrepreneurship program and an apprenticeship program and have the attending a mobile app the material as well as you know the program itself that they can protect protect if that makes sense yeah it does and so and thank you for your question um you would need i i invite you to schedule a consultation because all of those are sounds like copyrightable subject matter um but then you have to say what's the name of the program then that would be a trademark subject matter and so it sounds like you know we could do maybe some sort of an ip strategy call um and so i'm including my information in this presentation if you um would like to schedule one then you would certainly be welcome to i would love that thank you so much that would be great um because i also contacted the department of labor to get some information on their entrepreneurship program here in texas and i'd love to be able to you know include that in my conversation to get funding for all of this because our our church is a non-profit 10 business owners are a little cash-strapped i'm really glad thank you thank you for your question and that comment and just to if and that's a great point that you said when you're seeking funding then the investors in these projects one of the one of the main things they want to know is about the is the is about the intellectual property because they have to protect their investments and so if you are and if your organization is looking for funding it's extremely important to protect your intellectual property because that is the asset that's the main thing you're investing in if you haven't done your due diligence and the basic copyright protection basic trademark protection then it's a project that could easily be taken away just with someone sending out a cease and desist notice so if you think of it in terms of the person investing in the project this is extremely important oh well thank you for that hadn't thought about putting that as well but i appreciate that thank you awesome thank you hi john please i'll meet yourself and thanks for being here thank you and um our church uses Spotify before church service when we pay for Spotify do we pay for um copyright um use oh that's a great question so um and this is probably gonna surprise a lot of people but when you have your Spotify account you want to definitely look at the terms of use because if it depends on what kind of account you have because if you have an individual account then it's for your individual use if you have it for commercial purposes and you want to make sure that in the language of the license it says that that kind of public performance is is is approved the church copyright license is just to give you an example when you have one you are covering the music on the whole music when you put people on hold there's music that's a public performance when you have it on the elevator in your building that's a public performance so if it's going through the speakers even the person with the corner store with the boombox behind the counter is engaging in a public performance so if you own a night club it's very clear that you need to have a license because you're publicly performing this music for people to dance to but it doesn't click for us for worship services and places of worship but obviously um this is something that is overlooked and that's the main reason we're talking about it so I would definitely visit the terms of using your license to make sure that that is um permissible under the type of subscription you have thank you so I'm someone to ask what's the difference between licensing trademark and copyright get great question there are two different things the trademark an example of a trademark is the brand identity so if you're a church is called house of hope and there's a conference and the conference wants to be able to say that they are partnering with house of hope to do x y z then that would be a trademark license situation because there's some sort of sponsorship they're allowing you to use their logo on your marketing materials and that sort of thing for a copyright license now we're talking about the creative content such as the music such as the literature people who for example create courses and they want to license the content of the course and train others to teach the course that's a copyright license and it's a trademark license when you're allowing someone else to use the name of your course in their in their projects awesome I hope you guys got that if not you're gonna have to listen to the recording just reminder this is being recorded I'm going to send the recording and the slide presentation out to you we have a few more minutes if you have a question please use the raising hand option or type it in the chat room I know there are some questions I might have missed in the chat room going to look and see if anybody raised their hand or feel free to unmute yourself if you have a question I see somebody on iphone is unmuted did you have a question okay um someone asked do we have your permission to share the slides and recording with others absolutely you can share these slides and the recording with the others we want as many people as possible to get this information I mean number one is free number two is invaluable because what you just learned here in 30 and 40 minutes could protect you and your organization for the rest of your life so please share you have anything else to add to that camera no I just really enjoy educating others on this topic and I hope you have learned something today and I really just appreciate the invitation Aretha it's always a pleasure to to you know when somebody says oh I didn't know that it makes my day so there's some questions coming in chat what's the average cost of a trademark so it depends and I would say that are you going to expect to pay depending on the attorney's experience anywhere between 2000 and well maybe 1500 and up it takes about a year for the process and that's not including the filing fees so the filing fees there's no one trademark for everything Nike for example has a trademark for apparel we know they also have it for an app so every time you have a new category that there's a filing fee of $250 a minimum and then there are different kinds of different levels of filing fees but the lease you'll pay is $250 for a filing fee on top of the legal service fees we have a small Bible study in our home can we use you to other formats well if it's small then I don't know what that means but you would definitely want to that's a slippery slope and you know I can't really say but I would definitely refer you to copyright.gov and look at some of those circulars on there where they give you all the technical information about those specific kinds of examples okay I'm not sure if somebody said if we relay the you to I'm not sure if you're trying to say if we replay the YouTube Venmo or any other video platform to our own online platform for free do we get issued a copyright violation I don't know I'm not going to get into that one yeah there's lots of questions I wouldn't be able to answer that yeah so um I guess if it's a question that's something you definitely have to look up and make sure you make sure that it's not a violation before you do it right okay any other questions I'm going back to the chat to see if I miss anything um somebody said other church pastors have written numerous teaching materials books and we plan to have those online for church members to download the study further should the pastors write and be copyrighted even though many reference switchers are in the bible oh wow that's I love this question because there are examples of telephone books being copyrightable so now whenever you have facts facts themselves are not copyrightable but the way we express those facts is copyrightable so even though a pastor is preaching you know from scripture then those are those scriptures are not copyrightable as they are worded you know that's why we have the various translations that are for when a pastor is interpreting a scripture and adding his own commentary and adding storytelling that is absolutely copyrightable um and especially if it's it's in the form of a lesson because everyone's not going to interpret the lesson the same way but I find that a lot of pastors don't copyright their words of course the mega pastors who built out these e-commerce stores are more diligent about that but I think it's um a gray area for a lot of pastors that don't even know that they can do that they work for these various organizations and they just assume that you know it's you know it's god's work and you know this i'm a servant and but they don't look at the intellectual property and I think that's a mistake because we're what our gifts will make room for us and so you know you have to protect these things because they should be a part of our estate planning as well okay last question um from Jeremy I have a packet of worksheets for business planning what I need to follow copyright for each page or can they be done as a collection as a whole well it depends and so if you uh oh camera you you froze camera okay um while she's coming back maybe her zoom is looping around go ahead and put in the chat room one takeaway one thing that you learn from today so I'm camera you um you broke up so we didn't hear any of that I'm not sure if you can hear me all right can everybody hear me am I breaking up type in the chat room I can hear you okay great thank you so okay so camera um her uh okay there we go you're back um so you broke up so can you start over with that question about copyrighting the whole thing or should it be pages uh oh all right so yeah type in the chat room you're one take away one thing that you learned that maybe you're going to share with somebody else or one thing that was a aha moment okay there you go you're back camera okay but I hear you it looks it was looking like you were freezing on my end we've had problems with zoom today so um the yes the answer to the question is sometimes you can file a collective work it just has to be the same kind so all literature all music and the author has to be the same so in that case you should be able to bundle it and file it under one fee awesome thank you so much okay lots of takeaways here in the chat room lots of thank you great info pleasant presentation thank you I learned that copyright is not automatic um Elwood says Cindy says um that the King James version is the only free version to use yes so like the copyright ownership is automatic but the registration is the step that you need to take to be able to sue Christian said this is still complicated but the info the thanks for the info our little nonprofit must contact ccl uh I directly determine which form of license do we need that's good yeah and Carol said learn a lot about brand identity yes that's awesome thank you again for having me um and my contact information is on the last slide so please do feel free to reach out and um click on the consultation link and be happy to speak yes and thank you again camera thank you everybody for being here but camera I cannot thank you enough seriously for taking time out of your day I don't know what cost you but um we thank you so much appreciate it awesome I enjoyed it thank you again thanks everybody for coming all right take care everybody