 So it is 601. Let's go ahead and get started. Welcome everyone to Emperor Norton Ridge in 2022. The 150th anniversary of Norton's Bay Bridge proclamations. New life for an old dream with speaker John Lumia. My name is Taryn Edwards and I am one of the librarians at the Mechanics Institute of San Francisco. For those of you who are unfamiliar with mechanics, we are an independent membership organization that houses a wonderful library right in downtown San Francisco. It is the oldest library designed to serve the general public in California. And it is also a cultural event center and a world renowned chess club that is the oldest in the United States. We are happily reopening thanks to the curbing of the coronavirus we are now open six days a week and I hope to see you there sometime during our regularly scheduled hours. I encourage you to consider becoming a member with us. It is only $120 a year and with that you help support our contribution to the literary and cultural world of the San Francisco Bay Area and let me tell you it is starting to whirl again. Now, our speaker tonight is John Lumia who has partnered with the Mechanics Institute several times over the years. And he is the founder of the Emperor Norton Trust, which is a clearing house of research on the life in times of our very own emperor, otherwise known as Joshua Norton. John is a writer and activist whose interests have focused on issues in history, urban design, public space, architectural preservation, culture and politics, and his work has appeared in all kinds of publications including the San Francisco Chronicle, KQED, Mother Jones, Wall Street Journal and more. To learn more about the Trust's efforts in support of naming the Bay Bridge after Emperor Norton, please see Emperor Norton Bridge.org and I'm going to put that in the chat space in just a moment. Thank you John so much for coming tonight. Thank you is that me. Are you asking me to start. All right, excellent. Well, thank you. Thank you so much to Terran and to the Kansas Institute for the invitation. It's always great to be in this community and as Terran was saying, this is actually the 150th anniversary of Emperor Norton's proclamation setting out the vision for the Bay Bridge, he actually issued three of these proclamations in 1872. And it so happens that tomorrow actually is 150th anniversary of the second of the three so there was one in January 1872, one in September, and the second one was on March 23 1872. So it thought it'd be a good idea to start out just for those who may not have actually sort of lay their eyes on these things to sort of show them. So we can sort of see what these proclamations actually look like. They were all published in the Pacific Appeal, which was a black owned and operated published weekly that published about 250 of the Emperor's proclamations between 1870 and 75. So it really is the one publication that that by far publish more than anybody else. This first of which came out in January of 1876. Sorry, 1872. You know that the, the, the, the intercontinental railroad was coming into open starting in 1869 and so San Francisco was concerned about that because you know with with Bay unbridged, you know they knew that a key to their own economic success was you know getting a direct connection somehow to Oakland. And so the Central Pacific, the Central Pacific Railroad was proposing a bridge at Ravenswood, which is basically where the Dumbarton Bridge is now. And the elders of San Francisco on both the government and business side said that's really just not going to be good enough. And that was that was sort of the backdrop for the Emperor's first proclamation coming out in January 6872, saying, whereas we observe that certain newspapers are agitating the project region Bay, and whereas we are desirous of connecting the cities of San Francisco and Oakland, by such means now therefore we nor in the first day Gratia Emperor do here by prohibit the Ravenswood scheme being carried into effect, in order that the bridge be built from Oakland point to telegraph Hill via goat island, good island being what we now know as your point. That same day, interestingly, he issued another proclamation about some, some writing that was happening Los Angeles against the Chinese on that. That time so so that was what was happening then and then he comes back on March 23. And he says, the following is decreed in order to be carried into execution as soon as is as is convenient. He lists three points the first point being that a suspension bridge, you built from Oakland point to go to island and then telegraph Hill provided such bridge to be built without injury to the navigable waters of the Bay of San Francisco. And then he comes back September that year saying, whereas we issued our decree ordering the citizens of San Francisco and Oakland to appropriate funds for the survey of a suspension bridge from Oakland point by goat island, also for a tunnel, and that's a project and whereas the said citizens that hit or to neglected to notice our said decree and whereas we're determined our authority shall be fully respected. Now therefore we do hereby command the arrest by the army above the boards of the city fathers if they persist in neglecting our decrees and then signed his name. So so that that is the that is the backdrop for for why we're here now and why many, many people for the last 86 years have been saying and and and working for the idea that in some way or another, the emperor's name should be on this bridge to open a bridge which, which, which opened in November of 1936. I thought it'd be kind of fun to sort of start out here with a little film flip. So we're going to do that. And I would suggest that maybe you want to make sure that you have your volume volume turned up pretty good so you can hear everything. Well, it might take a quick second to load. Hopefully not too much. Alright, so it looks like we're not going to get that so I'm going to go to the next, the next screen, the video clip that I was going to try to show you there was a there was a, there was a, there was a television drama in Netflix called telephone time. And, and these were all sort of stories of the strange and the usual, and they were hosted by a gentleman named john Nesbitt, and john Nesbitt was a was a radio and television presenter and San Francisco who actually started in NBC radio in 1933. And that was in 1956, but it seems like Emperor Norton had been sort of a theme for him for some time. The show in 56 was actually called Emperor Norton's bridge 30 minutes drama it's wonderful you can get it. You can actually find it on our website. The program actually doesn't talk about the bridge at all. It's just that was kind of Nesbitt issue he'd had he'd had a previous episode of radio episode on the Emperor in 1945. It was interesting to see this clip from an interview that appeared in the SF Examiner in 1956 just in advance of that broadcast of the telephone time episode, saying you know during his years here john practically made a down payment on his big sir ranch, just telling radio service but by insisting the Bay Bridge be called the Emperor's Bridge in his memory. And then quoting quoting Nesbitt, Norton was the first to suggest the bridge and the old boy dope that out pretty damn well. I've always campaigned to have a rename the Emperor's Bridge. I'll never give up. And then it goes on. So so that that is a very early reference to someone sort of instead of just go really sort of sort of setting out this call for the Emperor's name being on his bridge. He was doing is as early as the as the 30s and 40s. I'm not really sure. But it certainly is a is an early sign that there was somebody out there doing that. The one that more people might be familiar with is a is a plaque. That was at the Transbay Terminal for many years. This is a plaque that was commissioned by E Clampus E Clampus Vitus the the the sort of paternity that sort of takes care of a Western California history and who has Emperor as a patron saint. They in in 1939, had this plaque made which they had hoped to put on the new Transbay terminal. They could never get the permission, but the plaque reads, pause, travel and be grateful to Norton Emperor the United States Protector of Mexico, 1859 day 80, whose prophetic wisdom conceived and decreed the bridging of San Francisco Bay. And then it gives a data August 18 1869. At that time, there was there was actually a fake proclamation that been published in the Oakland Daily News on that day in 1869. They had the Emperor calling for a bridge from Oakland to Goat Island to Sausalito to the Feralons, which would have been truly a bridge to nowhere. But that really was a hoax proclamation just sort of poking fun at at the Emperor at San Francisco at San Francisco's expense. But nobody really knew what the actual day of the real proclamations were and so and so that that was a sort of a relic of the knowledge that hadn't quite arrived. This plaque actually did eventually go to the Cliff House in 1955. And it was moved to the Transbay terminal to to mark the 50th anniversary of the Bay Bridge. And it was there until I think about 2010. That's when the old Transbay terminal was demolished to prepare for the construction of the new Transbay transit center on that same site so went into storage. And then went back to the new Transbay center very briefly in 2019. Unfortunately, about a year later, the plaque was was vandalized and so E. The old sort of has stewardship of this plaque has moved it to Molloy's in Coloma. So if you go to Molloy's now, you can find it sort of on the wall there where it's better protected than it, than it was fast forward to 1947. That's her pain. Her pain is, that's her pain on 1947. What was being above what was the idea that this great grand Bay Bridge was already beginning to max out its capacity. So we were beginning to talk about a second Bay Bridge in 47. And this would come up in in Cain's columns. And so in January of 1847. He writes I hear by resolve and a number of things. But then about halfway down through this little passage you see that he says to suggest that the second Bay Bridge be named after Emperor Northern, who after all was the first quote crackpot to come up with the idea. So that was in January 47 in March of 47 Cain is back talking about it again, saying again about halfway down, shouldn't that second Bay Bridge, if any, be named after Emperor Northern, the first thought of spanning our poll about 75 years ago. And then in April. Here's Cain again. The Emperor Northern that unforgettable character has been allowed to fade so completely from the same still seen. Of course the theatrical group called the Emperor, the Emperor players, but that's only half and not an inverse direction. The name Emperor Northern Cafe has been registered Sacramento, but where's the cafe. And if that second Bay Bridge is ever built. Why shouldn't be called the northern bridge. He had the idea 75 years ago so that's that's pretty high praise from someone who, who probably had a much bigger audience than he has ever had. Rosa planning that scene, even though he's not talking about the Bay Bridge. He's talking about a bridge across the bay, having the Emperor's name. And then, that was in 47 so 13 years later. Yeah, my days right here. In, in July of 1960 is this letter to the editor from DJ Stevens Allen in Berkeley, who writes, many years ago before I moved from the Bay Area. I used to think the appellation of the Bay Bridge, too short and the abbreviated form and too long when being rendered San Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge, being now returned. I wonder if I may make a suggestion. The idea for the bridge was originally that of Emperor North. So it's a story is certainly one that recalls the glorious whole San Francisco, and the usual sensibility and kindness of an entire city government might not be appropriate and desirable to name the structure the emperor northern bridge and erect a classic bronze statue of his imperial majesty in the act of addressing the city council in the San Francisco and services to gesture will be highly credible to the city. And that is the earliest reference there, certainly their earliest newspaper reference that I've ever seen of the actual phrase Emperor Norton Bridge, being published anywhere so that that is, that is notable. Another another 26 years to 1986, and that is when William Drury published his biography and Norton the first Emperor the United States, which has become something of a Bible for a lot of people about the emperor certainly it was the first book length account in almost 50 years, and was was much more historical and sort of placing emperor his time that any previous account had done. And so, in the course of the promotion to this book the book was coming out early 86. And here's build very. And in January 86 the paper starts are talking about how Bill Drury had petition he was circulating to get the Bay Bridge, called the Emperor Northern Bridge, and and these, these items would come out for the next, you know, six months or so. And it seems the first item said he had 1100 signatures. One of the last mentions in June of 86 city had 350 signatures. Now, Bill Drury was clapper. As I've read it seems, most likely that he was simply taking this petition around to various clapper meetings, and it never was a truly public petition, and it's very possible that the whole thing was something about a publicity gimmick for the book, you know because the book was coming out and this was a way to attract attention and maybe, maybe if he actually had been able to get it to take off, he would have stayed at it for a little longer but it seems that once it was clear that that he wasn't going to be able to get anywhere with what he was trying to do the mentions of that petition sort of dry up. And this reference that I've ever seen to an actual petition being circulated anywhere, even if on a fairly limited basis, but but later in that same year. Of course they they are approaching 50th anniversary of the bridge and November of 1986, and, and Phil Frank in his cartoon for the Chronicle Farley takes up this issue. And so so Frank has about a half a dozen different cartoons in October of 1986. Here's one of the early ones says Farley stairs the Bay Bridge is birthday candle amuses. And the character is a reporter, who's encountered by a woman who says they can hang all the banners candles and lights with that won't do it this bridge is the name change. To what Glenda, the Emperor Norton Bridge after all he ordered a built in 1972. Are you sure about that. Yeah, but let me check my reference section. And then as the as the little series goes forward. The reporter goes to a to a seer. Baba Reebok, who was a kind of recurring character in the cartoon, who conjures the Emperor's ghost. And among other things, you know says until the Bay Bridge is given my name I will hot expands, long delays the toll plaza jackknife big rigs, slow moving Volkswagen vans in the fast lanes. So he's had a little fun with that. And there's, there's still Frank who passed. Maybe five or six years ago he hasn't been gone for very long. I think I'm right about that someone will correct me if I'm mistaken. But I think he's not been not at all for very long. But but it was an issue that was that was near and dear to him, because in 2004, he would take it up take it up again. He he had a very long series of these cartoons that ran from, I believe January 2004 until March 2005. Most of them about 25 running September, October, November, December, and all about you know the Emperor Norton Bridge and of course this is at a time when when the, when the, when the Eastern section of the Bay Bridge is under construction. And so it's in the news a lot and there's conversation about you know what are we going to call this thing. And so he uses this indication from the sort of long series of comic strips about the Emperor about the Emperor Norton Bridge and teaching the history of the Emperor it's it's it's fantastic and there's one of those in early in the series, where the character says, I hear you friends, you two were drained emotionally, you two are lamenting the condition of society. We have an emptiness in our souls and our spirits, we are lacking something, what are we lacking, we're lacking whimsy friends. How are you and I going to get our daily requirement whimsy, we're going to come together with one common goal, we're going to get that over budget Bay Bridge rename the Emperor Norton Bridge. It's not much friends, but it's something. And in this whole series, it sort of goes back and forth between between between sort of naming just the west side for Emperor Norton just the east side for Emperor Norton, the whole thing for and never really sort of settles on on a particular agenda. But, but that that is that is in in 2004. And, and at the end of that year in November 2004 supervisor Aaron peskin who was in his first run supervisor at that time, took this issue out, and he actually introduced a resolution in the board of supervisors to to name the entire Bay Bridge, the Emperor Norton Bridge. And in the following month in December of 2004. The board actually issued a resolution calling for only the eastern side, the Oakland side to be named the Emperor Norton Bridge, which always has made me wonder how serious they really were but at any event. You know, Oakland wasn't very impressed with this idea and the whole thing space sort of fall flat and went nowhere. It's unfortunate that the in the current time, most people who grew up in Oakland and East Bay, don't know that actually Emperor Norton was hanging out there all the time, he made weekly visits to to to Oakland and to Berkeley, and and was in their papers and they knew who he was. But of course now he is he is seen as being you know primarily a San Francisco figure and they don't know that that side of his, his story. So it really was then in 2013. But this issue of the Emperor Norton Bridge came up again I, you know, this is this is when summer 2013 the idea of naming the western side of the Bay Bridge for Willie Brown, the former mayor former assembly speaker was beginning to percolate. I had a friend who came to me and said, and said, oh no, oh no, we want our bridge named for the Emperor and I, you know, at that point, I had been in San Francisco for about three years, grew up in Kentucky and lived in New York for a long time. Emperor Norton was not a part of my story at all, but I learned very quickly and I launched this petition, calling for the entire Bay Bridge to be sort of named for the Emperor it got a lot of media attention, took off, and we got about, I think about 3200 signatures and six weeks. You know, we didn't we didn't get the name of the bridge but there was a lot of wonderful energy around that effort, and that really sort of became the impetus for the launch of what then was known as the Emperor's Bridge campaign, and what now is known as the Emperor Norton Trust. And so, you know, we learned a lot, especially in the first six months or so sort of after, after the, the legislature sort of passed the name of the western side for Willie Brown. This is, I'm getting a bit ahead of myself and actually in February of 2014. The Emperor Brown had a, had a party for himself on Treasure Island to celebrate this naming, and a group of anonymous artists got together and make sure that on that morning. This sign was at the foot of the San Francisco side of the Bay Bridge, saying in 1872 Emperor Norton decreed this bridge, give from the artist in the city of San Francisco February 11, 2014, but of course you see that what is what is there in very sort of bold print is Emperor Norton's Bridge and that's what they, that's what they are, are wanting the bridge to be called. Two and a half years later we got together with some of those same folks. This was on the 80th anniversary of the bridge in November of 2016. We were gathering and we made the same sign with slightly different wording, saying salute Emperor Norton on the 80th anniversary of this bridge, open as a San Francisco home made bridge on 12 November 1936. But, but in that in that first six months or so. After the naming of the Western side and as we were sort of beginning to sort of lay the groundwork for the Emperor's Bridge campaign. We realized something very, very important, you know, because you know one of the things that made that whole situation seem so fraught was the belief that it really was either war. And once Willie Brown's name came on the bridge, then that was just basically it, everything else was going to be off the table. Nothing else was going to be an option it wasn't even, even clear that the name Bay Bridge was going to use anymore. And we've learned pretty quickly that that actually is not how the state operates the state continued and continues to recognize San Francisco Bay Bridge as the name of the entire two bridge crossing and recognize Willie Brown bridges the name of the, of the San Francisco side, and those two things exist in tandem. And when you really drill down, you find out that going back to the 1960s, there are about 30 or so state bridges with with two and three and four and five names for the same bridge in different configurations. There's a long history and precedent protocol for the state to basically do whatever they want when it comes to to naming roads and bridges. The closest one, next to San Francisco is the the risk with San Rafael bridge, which was named from the San Rafael bridge of by legislation in 1951 bridge open. Excuse me, and then 1981, the legislature came back and named it the john F McCarthy Memorial Bridge, those two names existing in tandem for the exact same structure. Now the example that is that is probably the closest to what we're talking about in the case of the same school from a bridge is this bridge. This is a sort of satellite view of the Humboldt Bay Bridge in Eureka. This bridge is is unofficially known, but this is recognized in in Caltrans lists of bridge names that it recognizes Humboldt Bay Bridge as the unofficial name. In 1971, the legislature named this bridge, the Samoa Bridge. So it's recognized as both the Humboldt Bay Bridge and the Samoa Bridge. And then later in the 70s, the legislature came back and as you can see, the bridge actually is is is a bridge made of three separate bridges, one here one here and one here. Each one of those individual bridges has its own separate name. So you've got five different names going on so they're clearly is is is protocol for that sort of thing happening. And what what we've been talking about. And, you know, for the last, you know, several years we really have sort of folks our efforts on on big anniversary, you know, thinking that well you know this is, this is something the legislature has to do, the political winds have to blow in the right way. So it's not a great idea to just keep on and on and on harping on this but maybe sometimes you know politicians like to do something symbolic on a big symbolic year a big symbolic anniversary. So we, we, we focus really on pretty, pretty exclusively on our, our, our sort of research educational efforts, walks talks all that sort of thing until 2018 and we sort of start raising this flag again around the time that the emperors by Centennial which is going on that year. And then, and then this year really has has has presents itself as the next big opportunity 2022 being 150 anniversary of the emperors proclamations if the politicians wanted to pick up a really big symbolic date to get this done. This would be a great time to do it. And so that's kind of why we're focusing on that now and why here at this relatively early stage in the year we thought it'd be a good idea to sort of review the history of this. This very old idea and also sort of talk a little bit about, you know what needs to happen to, to actually make this come to pass. This is the visual aid that we've been, we've been sort of floating around, sort of showing what the, what the taxonomy of the Bay Bridge naming would look like, if what we're suggesting were to come to pass so so you would basically have San Francisco from Bay Bridge and Emperor Norton Bridge existing in tandem with with Emperor Norton Bridge added as an honorary name, but leaving the Bay Bridge name in place no interest in in getting rid of that name a lot of people. Let's assume as soon as you start talking about naming bridges that you're talking about about renaming or replacing or taking a name off we want to make it very very clear that all these names get to stay. There's there's no there's no need to challenge anybody or anything or any history, just simply a question of, of adding something new. And using that opportunity to to give the Emperor Norton his due and to really sort of help the Bay area tell its story in a very colorful and historically relevant way. I don't know and haven't heard of any idea of anybody proposing a name for the eastern side. I would guess that sometime that might happen so that's that's sort of a placeholder in this chart. But all the names here would be exactly as they, as they are now with the addition of one in fact, the way that the legislature sort of specs out these namings. If you are a private organization private group that sponsors one of these naming proposals and you're successful. And well, if you want signs, you have to pay for. So if you think about sort of what what it would actually cost to overhaul the entire Bay Bridge naming. Highway signage naming, that would be a very very taller indeed, but this way everything stays where it is. A nice big sign on one end, a nice big sign on the other end, and we can we can call it a day. So this is the splash page for Emperor Norton bridge dot org, which is basically simply the section of our larger site, Emperor Norton trust dot org, that deals with all the bridge issues so everything that I'm talking about tonight in infinite is in these pages and click the learn more button, you go to that part of the website. And there's also a button where you can you can go and sign the petition if you haven't done that already. Well, I would be I would be remiss to be here. If I didn't mention that the Emperor Norton trust is a membership organization when you take donations. So if you come a member for only 35 bucks a year. You are recognized as an emissary of the Empire for for 12 months. And, and we hope that that once we sort of can get back into doing live events, more than we've been able to the last couple of years, you know, these cars will once again be good permission those events. So today is very very helpful in terms of supporting our work, you know we're talking about the bridge tonight but but you know that really is a very small part of what we're about. We've got 140 some research articles. We've got an Emperor Norton map of the world interactive map of different locations. There is an archive of Emperor Norton in our music and film just the whole world of sort of Emperor Norton related research and interesting things on the site and what they will continue to add to develop. And certainly, if this is something that you believe in would like to see that work continue. We welcome your participation financially and we'll send you one of these awesome cards, and you'll be, you'll be official. And I think that probably is a good time for me to wrap up my comments I'm going to turn it back over to Taren and then we can open up for Q&A. Well, thank you for that. If anyone has any questions why don't you, I'm going to try something different because we're kind of a small group. Why don't you raise your hand in the, in zoom you can raise your hand. And then I'll turn your mic on and you can ask your question directly. I'm figuring that out in the chat space Lotus asked if you could comment about Emperor Norton's proclamations to defend the Chinese I referred her to one of your articles in the trust's blog. I actually have a new one, a new one. We had, we had never before. This has been a recurring feature of our research for a long time now but had never had never really sort of put everything in one place and has had a research tool where you can kind of see all of that. The Emperor actually was issuing proclamations between 1868 and 1878. Those are the ones that we know about are able to sort of see. Of course, many newspapers have been lost and resources have been lost, you know, partially in the fire and earthquake probably just because it's been a long time. My guess is that there probably were others in fact there are references to others, but we haven't found the proclamation themselves. But he started really in 1868. Around the time of the Berlin Berlin game treaty when there was there were all the ideas about about about beginning to sort of create a more, more equitable platform for Chinese in the US economy. And what that would need to mean in terms of getting the Chinese to recognize in courts and have their testimony heard in court saying the same as everyone else. And that became an issue that that the Emperor really sort of got his teeth into. And he issued, we found 13 proclamations so far. There are another another couple that seem like they probably are the Emperor's proclamations that we've not laid our eyes on on on an image yet. So so we sort of hold those out there as as as with an asterisk but but but it definitely was it was an abiding concern of his and he was talking about, you know, what was happening in in San Francisco but also what was happening on the west coast. There was a I mentioned early in the in the in the talk there was a there was I think in October of in October of 1871, there had been an awful awful riot in Los Angeles in which 15 Chinese men were rounded up and hanged. And, and this just this just created a real fewer and so that was, that was part of what the Emperor was referring to in 1872. And then later on in 1878. And in addition to to the proclamations, you know, 1978 Dennis Kearney who was who was sort of the, you know, the Irish, you know, demagogue who was who was best known for his, his chant, you know, the Chinese must go would hold these these these racist anti Chinese rallies across from City Hall, and this is well known it was an established thing every Sunday afternoon he was going to be there, these huge crowds to come here and speak. And so, on April 28. There was one of these rallies and the Emperor sort of showed up position itself very close to the platform before the start of the event and got on a little box stood up and and just basically said, you guys need to go home. You need to not bring any credit to your to yourselves or to your city by doing what you're trying to do nothing good is going to come and you need to go. You know, of course, he was, he was laughed off the off the off the grounds and, and, and, you know, very, you know, similarly dismiss, but it's definitely a sort of sign of his willingness to step into the crowd where probably almost nobody, and the whole crowd would have agreed to make a sentiment and put himself, you know, in some physical danger to do that and to, and to really sort of speak truth to power in a very physical way so so very impressive for someone like you know you mentioned I want to get to back to the bridge and we have a question from Michael Weber and I'm going to ask him to speak in just a second but I do have a picture that is relevant to what you mentioned about Berlin game. And some Berlin game and I just want to show the picture because I think it's important for people to see, you know, this fellow who was, who was Berlin game he was a he brought a Chinese embassy in 1868 to San Francisco and he brought this group of Chinese princes and bureaucrats on a world tour to acquaint them with Western civilization, and he brought them to San Francisco. Berlin game was a diplomat who was appointed by President Lincoln to foster relations between China and the United States and so I just have. I want to move on and go back to the bridge but I just really want to show you this one picture that I have because it might be helpful for you. And it's just kind of interesting to see. But can you see that you see that picture. Chinese Embassy in San Francisco. There is. Yeah, well, 1868. This was in San Francisco. And I don't know if they actually came to one of the Mechanics Institute fairs but this photo was on display. And so San Francisco's got to see it and I bet you Emperor Norton did to fabulous. So I'll send that picture to you later, but let me just say you know I mean this whole conversation is actually extremely relevant to to the bridge and we, you know we've said all along that that that many many people as much as they love him for Norton. They also somewhat think of him as a as a lovable haram thing kook and a funny hat who kind of marched his own drummer. I guess it felt you know, unless until people really understand how forward thinking he was and how he really was an early champion of these values of fairness and tolerance and self determination and the common good that came to be, in San Francisco in the Bay Area, until they see him in that light, they probably won't see him as someone whose name deserves to be on such a monumental structure so it all it all sort of goes together and so we long felt like this kind of long sort of educational process about the Emperor, you know really goes hand in hand with the bridge idea. All right well we have a question by Michael Weber Michael I've turned your mic on but you still need to turn it on on. I've given you permission to talk. All right, can you hear me. Yes. Okay. First of all, john. Excellent presentation. Very, very nice and thank you. You mentioned something about the plaque, and that it that it found a new home, or it presently resides in a place called Malloy's coma. What is that and what did they do to to deserve such an important memento. Malloy's Malloy's is a very, very old bar it's on. I'm not going to remember what the old name of the rose is old mission rose if you get if you go to coma you go to coma and you see you see Woodlawn cemetery where the emperor's very on the right and you keep on going there's like a little split there you take the left split, and you go about a half a mile, half a mile to a mile on the right. It's a really old old, maybe even been there since around 1900 before old Irish bar. Long time champions of the emperor there was a there was actually like an emperor room there for a long time. There's actually a section to center the bar where they just have all of this. Emperor Norton memorabilia and there is a there is a there is a tradition going back about 40 some years I think of of the clampers the members of the clampus vitus they go on the on the on the Saturday, closest to the emperor's death day, which was on January 8, 1880 they go on the Saturday closer that day, they make a pilgrimage to the, to the, to the, to the, to the emperor's great site, and then they go drown the sorrows and boys, and so and so and that's been going on for a very, very long time. And so there's there's a there's a long forged relationship kind of around Emperor Norton those issues and I mean I, I would love to see it in a more public spot. Love to see it in San Francisco. But I think I mean, but I understand the concern. My understanding is that that the issue with the transit center was that that the that the transit center there their policy was that they actually would not allow a plaque like that to be put under glass or under plexiglass. So it was totally exposed. And somebody basically just came along with a knife and just cut it in the neck. And so it's like you just, you know, what are you going to what are you going to do. And obviously it's it's it's public bus platform. Unfortunately, we all know that people are public platforms are there are people there who are not always in full control. And so who knows what would have caused him to do that, but but it's just, you know, too high a risk to leave it there I mean it was, I haven't seen it up close since the repair it was repaired. I believe they've been able to to to mask the damage pretty well, but I put the address from alloys in the chat space but it's 1655 Mission Road south San Francisco. And it was actually I don't know if you could tell from the photographs that I showed. But it had been, of course, it had been outside the transit terminal and the fifth house for for, you know, decades, and it showed the weathering you know just all the oxidation it was practically green. And so in connection with that, that moved to the transit center in 2019. When the plaque had been removed. It was taken to someone at the beyond museum and it was, you know, properly, you know, clean and restored and so. And so now it is it is very bright and shiny. And much more like what it was in 1939. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Does anyone else have any questions you can put it in the chat space or you can raise your little digital hand there and I will turn your mic on. So we have a question from Rafi. I hope I said that right. Rafi I gave you permission to speak so just unmute yourself. Got it. I can unmute as one of my favorite buttons. But, okay, my question is, what in the next few months or the next year, do we have upcoming events to support naming the bridge for our Emperor, or will this come out in the newsletter from the trust. And so any new development, we will cover it very loudly and very often. I would say that probably right now is definitely a good time to be writing letters to to the, to the, to the, to the senator from San Francisco Scott Wiener and to. To fulfill Ting is not the protocol is supposed to be. Now this is not the way that it went with the with the Willie Brown Amy, but the protocol that the legislature specifies is that and we, we feel like we probably want to do it as much by the book as possible. But that the legislate that one or more legislators have to sponsor such a resolution and at least one of those legislators has to come from the district where bridge road, whatever it is, it's so so for us, you know that that sort of means that basically means Scott Weiner, Phil Ting, although he's not technically in the Bay Bridge district and I guess right now, the seat that was occupied by David Chang is vacant. But I would think that that it still is appropriate to cultivate. I'm blanking on the names now. David. David, you have a wonderful blog post about what to say you have sample letters you have addresses of assembly assembly people senators. I just posted that in the chat space, but I can read out the list of names if you want, but David. Now we know David, I think David Campos and Matt painting with the two, the two leading candidates for the for the David Chang seat, and also and also your local supervisor, if you're in San Francisco especially. I mean what what we have what we have what we have have been told numerous times and I went to Sacramento a couple years ago and had some conversations with legislative aids. And when I talked to the aid at the time for Rob Bonta, who I think now is his wife who is in that seat from from the East Bay, you know what they say was well, get San Francisco supported. And then we'll look at coming along, you know, and that may be a pass the buck maneuver on their party probably is on some level. And I think certainly, you know this proposal probably will have a hard time getting taken seriously in the legislature, if, if the San Francisco delegation and some significant portion of the more supervisors is not, is not behind it. So, so that's, you know, that's one thing I mean, what one of the things that is that is somewhat in our favor is these these naming resolutions are not what they're not like bills. If you have if you have a bill, there's a legislative calendar, and those those bills that are to be considered for this legislative calendar you're already have to be submitted. There's a lot more flexibility with the resolutions basically legislators can introduce introduce those at any at any time. There is a certain amount that has to be provided in terms of, you know, votes that be taken so you've got to you've got to marshal votes in in in both in the transportation committees of both houses, and on the floor vote for both houses so that that takes a certain amount of time. But I know that the that the that the Willie Brown resolution in 2013 was not even brought to the floor, not even proposed until June of that. But certainly I would think that it, it will be probably ideal for something to be on the floor, you know within the next couple of months. Sandra has a question what type of sign. I guess would you like to see with Emperor Norton's name on it. Well, you know I think we have to, we have, we should be lucky to have that that that preference to express but I mean I think, you know, typically, you know, you know, these, these, these honorary naming signs you've seen on the side of the road they're quite small, they're they're not very big in fact they're easy to miss the ones that are on the bridge now for for Willie Brown for the western side, you basically blink and you miss it. Those signs back in 2013 cost 1000 bucks sign. And that is kind of the standard issue. Caltrans honorary naming sign and what what I don't know what I don't know is if, if there is a policy that well back just simply is all we do. In other words, you simply can't get anything any better than that. Because certainly if, if, if the money was there and the desire was there, I would love to see a big overhead sign like a like a big like one of these overhead, you know, things that you actually cannot miss there is there is a sign structure. On the Simpsco side, about maybe a quarter mile a half mile to the entrance, a huge sign structure that has had a blank green sign or I don't know what it was in the past, but it's been a blank green sign for years for a decade or more. So I'm thinking, you know, that's a that's a nice placeholder. So at least, at least if they don't say you've got one place where the sign basically is already there is just a case of, you know, pay someone to go up there and put the letters out so. Well, we can always dream. Does anyone else have any questions you want to raise your little digital hand or do you want to write in your in the chat space that's fine too. All right, well in the meantime, I just want to refer people to the Emperor Norton trusts website, which is Emperor Norton trust.org. There is a great deal of biographical material about Emperor Norton, and then there is also an archive of art and music and film that feature imagery of Emperor Norton. And there's a blog with an enormous amount of research about how Emperor Norton really fit into the wider scheme of San Francisco's history. And, you know, really how San Francisco's culture and values have really kind of sprung up out of Emperor Norton's thinking. So I encourage you to take a look at that Emperor Norton trust.org. And in the meantime, I don't see that we have any more questions. So is there anything else you want to tell our audience today john, other than please write a letter. Yeah, I think that's that's, you know, and keep your eyes peeled and obviously pay attention to me we we have, you know, we post regularly on Facebook and Twitter. We do have a newsletter you can subscribe to via the website it's in the navigation menu on the left. There's a subscribe button. I try not to put those out to very often, maybe like once every month or so so you're not just getting inundated with with emails but it's a good it's a good. It's a good place to kind of keep keep track of what we're, what we're up to and where our latest latest is but probably in terms of the to the minute stuff probably Facebook and Twitter best places to sort of see kind of what we're doing on a, on a regular basis. You can find the sign up link from the trust website so you can just click through right now if you want to sign up and get updates from what the trust is up to. Meanwhile, you can also find them on the trust on Facebook and on Twitter. Meanwhile, I want to thank you john for coming and you know as always sharing some fresh research on the emperor. I'm sorry I really sorry that clip didn't play, you know, I, I, it was playing in my in my, you know, as I was building the thing out, maybe there's some YouTube weird thing that's going to play, because it's if, but if people can can can go to our, to our website. If you, if you find the art archive and go to the film section. That page will have a link to that telephone time episode 56. And we've actually partnered with the internet archive to make that available so you can actually sort of see the whole thing ad free on our website it's about a half an hour. And it's got that whole introduction that I was going to try to show it's it's really, it's very charming. You know I just found it while you're talking and I put it in the chat space. And I will also send out an email when the video is ready to roll of this talk and I can link to that as well. So, fear not, you'll get the video one way or the other. Well hey thank you so much for coming out or tuning in tonight, all of you and john once again great working with you. And I look forward to the victory party. Excellent. So do I. Oh and Julian asks if there's any way to save the chat. Yes, I will go ahead and put the pertinent comments and links in that email that I send you within the next couple days that has the link to the video that john's mentioned and the link to the video for this event. So it'll be sent to you via event bright to your email box, maybe not tomorrow because tomorrow is a little bit crazy but certainly by the weekend. Alright, well thanks again everyone and look forward to, like I said the victory party. Thanks everybody. Have a nice evening.