 Welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. So if you're a pet owner like me, there's a good chance that you would do just about anything to keep your furry family members around for as long as possible. And it turns out that what your pet needs to stay healthy and happy isn't so different from us humans because if there's one thing that's going to impact their potential for a long, healthy life, it's diet. In just a moment, I'll talk with Dana Osborne, who not only says dogs do best on some of the same healthy foods we eat, but they also thrive on a lectin-free diet. Oh my gosh. And Dana knows what she's talking about. Before healing her dog, she transformed her own health using the plant paradox program. Well, on today's episode, Dana will explain why most store-bought foods are making pets overweight, arthritic, and skin problems, what we should really be feeding our pets, and the easiest way to start incorporating the plant paradox program into your pet's diet today. Dana, I'm so excited to hear about your story and thanks for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me, Dr. Gundry. So you've come such a long way in terms of your health. Can you share that journey and what you were experiencing? Well, you know, I grew up in an Italian family. My maiden name is Pellegrini. And the funny thing is my mom was actually Irish, but my father insisted that she make Italian food. And honestly, if you had the choice between Irish food or Italian food, which would you choose? I could. So we had a lot of pasta for dinner with tomato sauce. Sometimes we'd have a side of, or we'd have like steak with a side of pasta, chicken with a side of pasta, we'd have pasta for lunch. I mean, it was just we had a lot of carbohydrates. And at that time, you know, I was young so I could handle it. I ate peanut butter jelly sandwiches. I loved going to the movies and having a big bowl of popcorn. But, you know, my health didn't start to deteriorate. At that point, I was actually asked to be to join a ballet company in New York, and I was a professional ballerina for several years. They did. Yeah, it was a huge passion. I've only had a couple animals ballet and little bits of skiing in there. But anyway, so when I went to New York, I had to lose quite a bit of weight. They took out all my carbs, sugar. I couldn't eat popcorn anymore and things like that. And I lost the weight. I was dancing eight, honestly, sometimes 10 hours a day. And I was doing great. And it really wasn't until I moved to the Napa Valley that things started to change a little bit. I basically retired from dancing still in my early 20s and started being like a regular person, eating three meals a day. So snacks in between and, you know, I wasn't dancing. So I was walking and hiking and things like that. I was pretty much OK. I started gaining weight. I didn't like that. But I knew, well, you know, I'm not a professional ballerina anymore. And then I took a job with a wine magazine traveling all over the United States. I had. Yeah. Oh, wine maker dinners, you know, client lunches, lots of reception with tons of orders. And then it was the airport food and I had my first ulcer. Wow. That should have been a wake up call for me. But, you know, it wasn't. I just went along and then they discovered that I had a bunch of gallstones. And then from there, I ended up having my first bout of diverticulitis. And for those of you who don't know what that is, it's a really bad infection in your colon. It can be very painful. And they have to treat it with very intense antibiotics. The choice for me was Cipro and flagell, made me so sick. As a matter of fact, I kind of went off the flagell a lot because I just was it made me sicker than the diverticulitis, to be honest with you. And I lay in bed for days until the antibiotics kicked in. Do you think I thought about my diet back then? No, no, I didn't. So, you know, my mom had diverticulitis and kind of ran in my family. I just figured, oh, well, you know what? I just, I guess, just have to live with this and move on. And then a couple of years later, OK, so during this whole time, I was in and out of the hospital with diverticulitis. So I must have been on antibiotics for five years. I mean, Cipro was so strong that, you know, if that doesn't work, you know, what else is left, right? So I was they were saying was very dangerous for me at that point. Then they discovered a lump on my thyroid and my doctor did wanted to do a biopsy. It looked really suspicious for cancer. So they went ahead and removed the left side. And now I enter what I call if my health wasn't bad enough, my complete year of hell, I was tired all the time. I would sleep eight, ten hours a day. I'd wake up feeling like I never even went to bed. I would they were trying to get the hormone medication correct for me. They finally did. You know, I was a single mom. I had horses, a dog, several cats and actually a few rescue ducks. And I was just having a hard time keeping up on everything. And then the worst day of my life happened. I went to the farmer's market. That part wasn't bad. But I bought all those wonderful heirloom tomatoes. You know, it's summer, they're so beautiful and who doesn't want to sit down to a big salad of that? Well, I did. I probably ate three tomatoes. Now, I was already a sick person, but honestly, I'm pretty sure that was the straw that broke the camel's back. And I remember feeling really sick. It was different than the diverticulitis. It was like a pounding in my stomach. And I told my son I was going to go to bed early. I woke up at two o'clock. I was vomiting. I screamed for him to take me to the hospital. I was in so much pain. And, you know, when I got there to my fortune, I mean, if there's anything to be a fortunate about, it was the ER doc that was on call. He happened to be a gastroenterologist. And he took my he was supposed to be on shift that night. I mean, we had a lot of conversations about it after, but he took my hand and he said, you're going to be OK. Your colon is perforated. You're very, very sick and we need to give you emergency surgery. And then I think I passed out and I woke up the next morning. I had tubes down my nose. I was cut from stent of the stern. They told me they also took out my gallbladder because it was infected with a lot of stones. And I think the thing that I didn't know if I was going to tell your audience this or not. But I think it's important to know that I had a lot of green fluid coming out of this stuff that was coming from my stomach out of my nose. And this wasn't just for like a couple of hours. This went on for two straight days and it was the lowest point in my life. I thought, what have I done? I haven't been eating that bad. Why am I so toxic? And you're a young person, right? Yeah, I'm a young person. Yes, I mean, when was that? I mean, how old were you? Yeah, so I was in my 40s. I mean, that's young 40s. I mean, all this stuff had happened to me. How could I? What did I do to deserve this? Right? You know, little did I know that I was killing all my good gut bugs as well as my bad and my gut flora never had a chance to even grow back. I mean, I caught colds. I caught everything, you know, data was now a sick girl and I was so strong and healthy before and I was thinking, if this is going into old age, no, thank you. I knew I had to figure something out. So, okay. So you're at the, you're in your, you know, your 40s prime of life. Probably half people are saying, well, this is what happens when you get old, right? Yeah, especially in my family. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so, okay. So what'd you do? Well, you know, I started documenting all the food that I was eating. One of the things that I did love growing up on was broccoli. So I would eat raw broccoli. That wasn't going to work for me. And then I cooked the broccoli and I would notice everything. If I cooked it really good, you know, almost to the point where it was mushy, which I think is funny because you talk about that in your book, Brussels sprouts. So my mom did a lot of really good things. So, you know, she lived to be, you know, close to 90. She was 89 when she passed away, but she always had this amazing Italian dressings. But in fact, I might send you a bottle because it is really good and gungery approved, I'm sure. And so I had a lot of olive oil and I loved that dressing on my, and I kind of became a vegetarian at that point, but I would slowly add foods back in and document everything. And, you know, if something like nightshades, I couldn't eat it, I take it out. Pasta, I was gluten intolerant, had to take it out. I mean, I miss sourdough toast so bad. I don't crave those foods today, but what was interesting is I got to understand my own health by really listening to my body. And I had never slowed down enough to really take that into account. And I knew food was going to be the thing that was going to change my health. So you actually, I think this is important for our listeners to understand, you actually kind of took the time to say, now, so how did you know that you were gluten intolerant? Did somebody tell you? Or did you say, gee, every time I eat this with gluten? Well, you know, it was kind of coming on the scene. A lot of people were talking about being gluten intolerant and I remember going to my parents' house, I'd always have pasta and then I didn't feel good. And then eventually I was tested for it and sure enough, I mean, gluten is a lectin. I was, you know, even today, I have to be very, very careful with the foods that I eat. I think just because I'm so sensitive to a lot of things. But yeah, I did. I mean, mushrooms were great. I loved onions. Thank God I could still have garlic. For a long time, I couldn't eat raw garlic. It had to be cooked. Today I can eat raw garlic. Eggs were a no-no. Thank God, avocados were okay. There were just a lot of foods. I loved eggplant. I couldn't do it. The big one, okay, was spaghetti squash. You know, everybody would make that into like a pasta and you'd have it with tomato sauce and I'd be like, darn, I can't even eat that. You know, I would be so sick. So, you know, and honestly, and it wasn't until your book did so many different things change and I know we'll get into that. But some of them are kind of embarrassing but I'm willing to share. Great. Well, so, you know, after all this happened to you, did any of your physicians say, gee, maybe we ought to examine what's in your diet that caused all this? Yeah, that would have been great. And I asked them a lot. I remember the, you know, go on the brat diet for different things. But no, I actually had one doctor that said, stay away from nuts and seeds. And then I had another doctor who said, no, you should eat seeds. So I'm like, you know, what do I do? So I actually had to go on a journey of researching on my own. I mean, they just didn't have, I think the time to really go into that, you know, because 15 minutes and their next patient is waiting. And I was gaining so much weight and I was so bloated and puffy. And I just thought, you know, if they could have seen me before, they would have really realized that something was terribly, terribly wrong with me. But they never saw me when I was in my youth and I was dancing and doing all those things. I mean, I tried to exercise and I did go to the gym a lot and I was kind of a class rat, but I remember one of my girlfriends saying to me, boy, you go to the gym a lot and nothing ever seems to change. That was pretty discouraging, you know? That's what was happening to me. I was literally at the gym at 4.30 every morning for an hour and then I run 30 miles a week. And I was, you know, I was a Clydesdale runner. You know, I was a big fat guy and it didn't make any sense. I mean, look, you know, I got muscles, but why are they encased in fat? Exactly, why can't I get rid of the fat? What is wrong with me? So how did you come across the plant paradox? On Facebook. And, you know, I didn't hit the volume right away. I just kind of like read the words and then I kept getting sucked in, sucked in and then I put the volume on. And then I immediately went and bought your book and then I researched, watched a lot of different things that you had online. And then of course later, your podcast came about. But, you know, I like to say I was the second person that bought your book. I don't know if that's actually true, but, you know, I knew what I was reading for the first time. It was like the curtains opened up, the light went on and I knew exactly how could I not have known all this? Part of my diet had become lectin-free just because of the research that I did on my own. But now somebody was telling me what I could eat and what I couldn't eat. And boy, that just saved me a lot of time, a lot of guesswork. So, when you started adapting this, was it a gradual process or did you dive in headlong, you know, I'm all the way in? So yes, I dove in headfirst, like I do with everything that I do. And I read the whole book first. I wanted to understand everything that was going on and not just go right to the diet part, right? And I remember taking along a weekend. I think I called in sick that day, whatever. And I just went to the grocery store and I got all the different things that I liked that was on your diet that I would want to eat. And I already shopped at Whole Foods and a little bit at Trader Joe's so that part was easy for me. And I came home and I made several different recipes. I couldn't believe how delicious the food was. I mean, I kind of create my own recipes now but seeing, you know, you on Facebook, watching all your little videos that you have, you know, over Christmas and different things you could eat, I just thought to myself, I can do this and I'm gonna be a lot healthier for it. Very good. So what's the first thing you notice when you started on the program? So I'd have to say the inflammation. My face wasn't as puffy. Of course I lost weight right away as well, which was so like, oh my God, finally I'm losing weight like, I love this diet. And the most embarrassing thing was my bathroom habits. There were times where I'd wanna go for a hike or a long horseback ride or just out for a walk with my husband and I was always afraid to get too far away from a bathroom. Can you imagine? So, you know, the bathroom part and the bloating of my stomach, I think probably took about four months to six weeks and I felt completely different and I've only got off the diet one other time and I realized, what are you doing? And as I started traveling internationally and eating at Michelin Star restaurants, poor me. Work, work, work, work. Yeah, I know it was in Japan and I remember asking this one, Michelin Star chefs and I said, why don't you guys ever use brown rice? And he said, what's brown rice? Of course. He said, we would never eat that. And that's when I switched to white rice but then when I got your program, I just cut that out completely, yeah. No, but you bring up a very good point and I meet with chefs luckily all over the world as well and you look at what they've learned and four billion people use rice as their staple but four billion people eat white rice, not brown rice and they do that to get rid of the lectins the chefs that I meet with in Italy, it's hilarious that they all, to a person, say you would never cook a whole tomato. You peel and de-seed it to make pasta sauce. Everybody knows that the peel and seeds are lethal and everybody knows that. I was actually with a chef last fall in Tuscany and I said, well, how come everybody knows that? He says, well, everybody knows that. I said, well, where'd you learn it from? He said, well, my mother, my mother taught me and she learned it from my grandmother. Everybody knows that. Yeah, yeah, so true. So I thought that was funny and I wanted to make sure I told you that because to me that was hilarious. I still have people who's taught me today. I sell at the farmer's market with my dog food and they'll say, well, why don't you have brown rice in there? And I'm just like, oh, dear Lord, how do I, it's hard, it's hard. It really is hard. I talk about in the book, Deepak Chopra's representative in Japan, a wonderful young lady, had crippling rheumatoid arthritis and she was on an RU Vedic diet with a lot of brown rice and she had two hipster plays. She was basically bedridden and a friend actually gave her the Plant Paradox book and said, look, you got nothing to lose. Why don't you try this? And same sort of thing. She did, came off of all rheumatoid arthritis medicines. She started walking, got out of bed. She, a couple of years ago, flew to the United States to meet me. You know, back, rigorous young woman again and all because she was eating healthy foods and we took all those healthy foods away from her. You know, it's true and I did have a lot of aches and pains and one of the things that I went off immediately was ibuprofen. I remember my doctor saying I could take up to six a day. Yeah, you're totally fine taking six a day, but don't go past six. And I think that, you know, when I think about now, what I was doing in my system, I mean, I'm sure it would have been an interesting case today for you back then, doctor country, it would have been like, wow. And you had been given so many antibiotics. Has the plant paradox helped restore your gut balance? You know, it really has because I didn't even know I had a gut balance and that was going on. My gut flora didn't even have a chance to grow back, right? You know, two years after a big dose of antibiotics. So I needed the antibiotics because of what was going on, but had I been eating correctly, I would have never even had the diverticulitis, which by the way, I haven't had a bout of diverticulitis ever since and my colon is perfectly healthy. My doctors are always amazed when they see me and sometimes I just walk in and say, hey, I just wanted to say hello and let you know the diet that I'm following. And, you know, you should be telling your patients that too. I'm pretty outspoken about that, doctor country, but I'm okay with that, you know? Yeah, I mean, we're all out to help other people and you know, that's good for you. Yes, definitely. So what's one piece of advice you could offer listeners for getting started on the Plant Paradox Program? You know, I think that's such a great question because a lot of people might be interested in going out and buying your book. Those of you, those people who don't know of your research. And I would say get the book, read it like I have. And then also I have here this book, you can see all the, so this has a lot of really great quick and easy recipes, but first I think you need to realize why you're doing what you're doing because sometimes we'll abandon a reason and we'll just, you know, maybe start eating factory-farmed animals, why not, it's convenient, it's cheaper, that kind of thing, but then you know why it is you're not eating that. And then do what I do, just take a highlighter, go through the yes please list and get all the foods that you really like. Take a couple of examples of what you can cook for dinner, maybe a couple of lunches. It's very easy to take this program to lunch with you. You know, first it's a little bit difficult, you know, because you're not used to cooking this way. And then it just becomes easier and you can do it. That's all I want to tell people. You can do it, you can change your life, you can heal your gut. Very good. And for those of you who are not watching this or listening on audio, she was holding up the plant paradox quick and easy, which is the paperback, which we did because it's quick and easy and it really is. And there's a 30 day meal plan on there. Okay, now I want to switch over to your work with pets. Some pets are near and dear to your heart and my heart and probably most of our listeners. So tell me about your dog, Vegas. Was she struggling with health issues before you changed her diet or did she change your diet? Oh boy, I'll tell you. Well, we're here today because of my dog, Vegas and you, Dr. Gundry, as you know, it was really interesting for me because I ended up spending more time thinking about her diet than my own. And it kind of got me thinking, why am I not spending time on what it is that I'm eating? It was our lucky day when we went to the animal shelter here in Napa, my son and I, and we brought home this cute little puppy. And she was really the love of our lives. I mean, we also had cats, so I'm not, I love cats just as much. And, you know, I put down Kibble for her and canned food and she didn't want anything to do with it. I thought she was just nervous. It was her first time in our house, that kind of thing. But then I ended up going to the store and buying, I don't know, 20 different types of Kibble in canned food. She would take a little bite of it, then go lay down, look up at me and say, you expect me to eat that? And I'm thinking, yes, can you just please eat some food? I remember my mom telling me, why don't you put some chicken bouillon in there and then throw some chicken pieces on top and maybe that will get her interested in her Kibble. Well, it did, it worked. But guess what? She only dug out the chicken pieces and left the Kibble. And that was sort of like an aha moment for me. I was tired of buying all the different conventional foods and I just decided that whatever I was cooking for my son and myself, I would just make food for Vegas. But keep in mind, I was experimenting with different foods and so she was eating things like broccoli and chicken and, you know, hamburgers, that kind of thing without the bun, obviously. And I did check with my veterinarian nutritionist just to make sure that, you know, I wasn't leaving out any vitamins and minerals. And fortunately, I wasn't, it was real food and that's why my tag name is real food for real dogs. And so Vegas started thriving. I mean, she really was doing so well. And I remember going to the dog park, which I did with my dog all the time. And people would say, oh my God, your dog is so energetic. Look at her coat. I mean, it's gorgeous. What's just shampoo that you're using? And I was like, I don't actually shampoo my dog at all. Maybe I should, but her coat is beautiful because of all the olive oil and coconut oil that I'm putting in her food. And somebody said, oh, you're spending so much money on, you're just wasting it on your dog. You're spoiling her. But the best was just leave that kibble out. She'll get hungry enough to eat it. And I was thinking to myself, why would I ever do that to my dog? And from there on out, you know, this was something I was not gonna be persuaded from making dog food for her. Yeah, well, that's a- Yeah. So that became literally your lifelong passion for her. It did, actually, yes. You know, it's funny because sometimes I take out a bunch of chicken or steak. I mean, you know, I spoiled her. Yes, I did. And she lived to be almost 15 years old without any arthritis or health issues. Yes, but my son would come home from school and be like, oh, I'm gonna grab a piece of that steak. And I'd be like, no, you don't. That's the dog's food. We're just, so he always laughs at me about that. He ate pretty well too, I promise you. Yeah. So, well, and we recently had to put our super old rescue dog down, George. We inherited, I guess, George from a woman who died of cancer and had no place for this dog to go. And he was a very old dog when we inherited him cataracts, really couldn't get around. And we changed his diet and he started running with our pack. And we think he was 19 when we put him down, actually just a few weeks ago. But he had a second lease on life. We really thought he was only gonna, we were gonna care take him for maybe a few months and literally lasted five years with us and surprised us. I shouldn't have been surprised. No. Actually, you'll like this story. Our oldest dog is Pearl, who's a huge female labradoodle, 85 pounds. And she had a litter mate by the name of Gary, who some of our good friends bought. And Gary and Pearl used to play constantly and they chase each other around. As time went on about, so Pearl's now 13, at about 10 years of age, Gary could no longer chase Pearl. He hobbled up steps. Now Gary is, he's pretty much, really hard to walk. He's pretty much at the end of his life at age 13. We have a puppy labradoodle that now Pearl at age 13 chases around as if she was a puppy. And it's striking to see Pearl's litter mate is pretty much at the end of life and moribund. And Pearl now 13 is chasing the puppy around as if she's a puppy. But it really does talk to the power of food. I mean, you can be sick like me and heal yourself. Dogs, I mean, I'll give you an example in a moment about my cat and how we transferred to his life. But the human body and the body of a cat or a dog is so remarkable. If you just give it a chance, it can heal. And it needs to heal with the inside out. And we're just becoming a lot more aware of what it is that we're feeding our animals. I think, you know, I don't think these people who work for these dog food companies that are producing Kibble and canned food in that are bad people. I just don't think that they understand what's really happening when their animals eat that food. So, but it is amazing. Don't give up on your animal. If you've got an animal that is lethargic, has less energy than you'd like to see or is getting arthritis, you can still turn that around 100%. Yeah, absolutely. So you're currently working on getting your very own lectin-free dog food company up and running Napa Dog. So did the inspiration for this come from Vegas or where did it come from? Yes, absolutely. I mean, I used to look at other dogs because she would run circles around other dogs all the time and these are dogs that she grew up with. And, you know, I live on the Napa River Trail as well and my husband and I take walks all the time. As a matter of fact, he walks our paths often, but that's another story for another time. And I would stop somebody and say, oh, can I pet your dog? Oh, it's an old guy, huh? They're like, no, actually he's just six years old. And I started to realize, you know, wow, that is really unfortunate, you know? And I really look at every dog that I see. Many of them are olympic, many of them are overweight. The obesity between cats and dogs in our country is huge. So, you know, it was that, it was feeding dogs food, but it was all I could think about. I mean, literally it became my passion. I mean, I had a great job, but I would be, you know, overseas, you know, it's a spectacular event and I'm sitting in the back thinking about dog foods. I knew, I knew how to come home, quit my job and start making dog food. So what are some of the biggest issues with commercial dog foods? I mean, what's wrong with them? Well, you know, let's just pick out kibble, for instance, you know, we all know it's highly processed and it's also very high in carbohydrates. A dog is an omnivore, but he's mostly a carnivore. So really having too many carbohydrates isn't good. If you think about a dog in the wild, which was a wolf, many, many thousands of years ago, they would kill their prey and then eat what's in the stomach, right? So they would have some of the berries in the grasses and then they would eat the organ meats and then they'd go for the meat. So we really have to look at that as something that, that would be an appropriate thing to feed a dog, a species appropriate. Now today and after World War II when we needed convenience and we couldn't use cans for canned food, I mean, that came back later because they needed all of the tin for the war. It's been a long time since World War II and kibble has just stuck around and I'm really surprised it has because I think that we know better by now. So I'll give you a little story about kibble. So first you're gonna have like grocery store kibble and then you'll have high-end kibble and then all the kibble in between. So we'll call the grocery store kibble, kibble-a, right? They're gonna use things like rendered protein, meat, you know, use your imagination on that one. They can have like meat byproducts, meat meal and some of these are brought in from other countries, not just the United States and some could be brought in from China and there's been a lot of recalls with that. Then you have your upper end kibble, we'll call that kibble-b. Now they're gonna be grain-free but first they're gonna start with a protein too. So they'll use factory-farmed animals and again, it may not be sourced from the United States. Unless it actually says on the bag sourced from the United States and made in the United States, it's not. And you can believe them on that because what they don't put in is just as important as what they do put in on the bag. And then they're gonna be adding things like on the lower end, like ground corn, ground gluten, ground wheat, soybean flour, does that sound good, Dr. Gunry? Yummy. And then on the higher end, they're gonna be adding things like pea protein, potato starch, garbanzo bean flour. I mean, we're trying to make a dough here because we need to make a dough so we can make a kibble. Now don't forget about all those delicious fruits and vegetables, right? You see them on the bag, they're gorgeous. Look at the cranberries and the blueberries. Not so fast. Those are all powdered, many of them are lectin-loaded vegetables but it's in a powder form, sometimes bought from third parties so really what's in it, we don't know. They put that in but before they put it through the extruder, they're gonna add a synthetic vitamins and minerals to shore up the food. So it can be, it's not ever gonna be an appropriate food but at least we're not gonna be killing our animals. It's a slow death, don't get me wrong but at least the vitamins and minerals are there. Then they add natural coloring which it can be a dye on side A which can be very, very dangerous and unhealthy for your pet. And then on the other side, they might use like beet juice to make that piece of kibble look like a yummy piece of meat. I remember getting some kibble once, my friend was putting it up for her cat and one of it was green and she goes, doesn't that look like a beautiful pea? And I'm thinking to myself, that is not a pea, trust me. It's just green dye. I mean, come on, we're smarter than that, right? Okay, so now we have a dough and now we're gonna take that dough, we're gonna put it through an extruder which is gonna make it very, very hot so we can cook all the good stuff like a possibly left in that food and of course all the bad. And then it's gonna be pushed out into a little shape that you know is kibble. But before it goes in the bag, they're gonna spray it with some really weird animal fat and natural flavors and so your dog and cat will be like, hmm, that doesn't smell too bad, perhaps I'll take a bite of it. It's not good for your animals, I don't care. I mean, look at it, does it look like real food? And I think we all can agree that we should be feeding our animals, you know, just whole fresh foods. Yep. So how do the ingredients in your Napa Dog compared to traditional kibble? Well, I based everything off of your book. Oh my God. I wanted to make a lectin-free meal for animals. Now, you know, I have two skews, I have a chicken and cauliflower rice and a beef and vegetable harvest and I wanted to let you know that it's really important to me that I don't use factory-farmed animals. You know, I think if we actually knew what was injected to these animals, the hormones, antibiotics, but also their horrible living conditions, you know, Mahatma Gandhi had a saying, the greatest of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated. And I think that as humans, we're better than that. We need to be better than that. We need to really take a look at what we're doing to these animals that we're eating, that we're feeding our cats and dogs and because we're eating what they ate, right? And there's a lot of really bad stuff. It's not a good life for these animals. And so I only use meat that I get from certified humane farms and also gap-rated farms, global animal protection. And yes, I do have a grass-fed, grass-finished meat beef in my vegetable harvest. And I use things like spinach and carrots and, you know, turmeric, I use cull liver oil, coconut oil, sea salt with a little bit of iodine in it because dogs need that too and so do cats. And it's been really great food, so. So it sounds like, and you sent some and we can't wait to give the dogs, but I could actually eat it, right? Yes, actually you can. And, you know, my husband and I, when we're in our commercial kitchen and our cooks are always laughing at us because we try every single batch where it goes out. And I just, you know, cause I can taste and tell the mixture's really right. I mean, we measure everything, but you can eat it. And oftentimes we'll have it for lunch. Now you've got a new passion and that is a dog cookie, speaking of eating it. And you mentioned in the letter you sent that you actually sampled the batch. And I, you know, there's all these dog stores everywhere and they bake natural cookies for dogs. And to me, no offense, these things are poisonous to dogs just as they are poisonous to humans. So I was really excited because we all want to give our dogs cookies, you know, dog month's cookies. So tell me about the cookie. Well, you know, it was sort of a pivotal thing for me during COVID and also a lot of my clients want to give their dog a treat, right? So they said, you know, can you come up with a healthy treat? And I was really surprised when I started looking into making a dog cookie. First off, I wasn't interested in having some high-copper hydrate diet for a dog. I mean, this is a treat people. Don't do more than two or three, you know? But I also wanted something that didn't have sugar in it. I mean, I couldn't believe how much sugar we're giving our dogs by treats. Molasses, sugar, I mean, some just say white sugar, you know, processed white sugar. And so I came up with a cassava flour, coconut, carrot, cookie, and it's actually gluten-free and vegan. And my husband thinks it pairs really well with a nice Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon. But it's really for your dogs. So please save that for them. It's a fun cookie, it's a fun treat and you can feel good to give it to them. Good for you. We need more people thinking about the stuff we bake for our dogs ought to be as good as, you know, what we do for us. You know, and I want to add a disclaimer since we're talking about this based on the plant paradox. You know, animals in general and dogs and cats specifically do have different nutritional requirements than we do, particularly cats. This means that some of the foods that may be amazing to our health and are on my yes list, like extra dark chocolate or garlic may be really dumb to give to our dogs and or cats. So I think that you're saying, and I'm saying that, yeah, the lectin-free part of the plant paradox program is absolutely perfect for dogs, but that doesn't mean that everything on the yes list ought to be fed to our dogs or cats, right? Yeah, no, actually, we need to be really careful. There's some really poisonous items that are on your yes list for dogs or cats, you know, and that is like dark chocolate, onions, garlic, any kind of, you know, sweeteners, xylitol, those types of things. And anybody can DM me, they can actually find a list online, but please make sure that you know exactly what those things are. They're very easily found just by Googling it. So be very careful not to give those things to your dog. So for instance, if you're, you know, cooking some kind of protein and you want to put onions in there, please don't share that meat with your dogs because onions are very, very poisonous to your dog. So be careful and, you know, all your readers and listeners are very, very smart savvy people. So don't worry about that. Speaking of listeners, I know you have cats. I used to have cats and I love cats as well. What about cats and elect and free diet? Absolutely. Well, first off, we need to really realize that cats are carnivores. So those cute little fluffy things, you know, and I have three of them. So I would know are, you know, they're hunters, they're meat eaters and they really don't need any carbohydrates at all. And I know a lot of people are going to be shocked to hear that, but they just don't, they thrive really, really well. They haven't changed over the years. You know, dogs, we can, they can tolerate a little bit of carbohydrates, but cats, you know what they can't. And I found out because I was feeding my cat, Louis, Kibble, this was many, many years ago. And I remember bringing him to the vet and he said, look, your cat is obese. And if he doesn't lose weight, you're going to have to start giving, you know, injections because he's on the road of diabetes. You know, of course I turned all that around and now we feed our cats a raw diet, but I couldn't imagine doing that. I mean, he was pushing 20 pounds. He's like maybe 12 pounds now. He looks like a kitten running around. We need to feed animals the appropriate diet that they were meant to eat and stop believing. All the other sources that are coming in. I mean, eventually I think Kibble's going to go away because we're going to realize as consumers we're going to stop buying it and then they're going to start making something different for us. It was the same way with like organic groceries. You know, remember you want to go buy something organic. We thought about buying it organic and you would see a dimly lit part of the grocery store with maybe a hippie there buying some little little apple and you're like, ooh, why would I ever buy that? I'm going to buy these beautiful, gorgeous apples over here that are huge and shiny. Well, we've come a long way, right? So you can go into any grocery store and you're going to find organic. And I think eventually you're just, and you already have seen a lot of fresh ingredients for dogs and cats coming out. But you know, buyer beware because even with some of the raw diets there's a lot of carbohydrates in there. They're loaded with lectins. They are loaded with really bad oils. And if you read the book, you'll know what those are. So definitely a raw diet is best. Some animals like foods cooked a little bit. That's okay too. And again, there's just a lot of choices out there and I'm happy to help anybody navigate that. Hopefully someday if I get funding I'll be able to really scale and grow and have cat food too. Yeah, and I think we should make people aware that this is a business you are starting and you would love to get some inflow of funds and investment in your business. So anybody who's listening to this and what a great cause. And I think the dogs and cats of the world will demand this and good for you for doing this. Thank you, Dr. Gunjery. So how do people find you? Well, they can go to my website which has a lot of great information at www.nappadog.com. That's easy. And I'm on Instagram at Napa.dog, somebody already owned Napa Dog and I'm trying to get them to give it to me. But until then I'm at Napa.dog and also on LinkedIn at Napa Dog. Okay, that's very easy. Okay, now as you know at the end of my podcast I take audience questions but this time we're gonna turn it around and you're gonna have questions for me, I understand. All right. I'm so excited. Okay. Okay, all right, the first one, you ready? Okay, I wanna know is would you say you stay in ketosis most of the time? Gee, I hope not. Okay. And I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that people make. There's absolutely no evidence that our ancestors were continuously in ketosis. Right. And as I joke in the energy paradox do you really think that when we killed that buffalo that we said, oh, I'm only gonna have four ounces of that buffalo because if I have any more of that I'll break my ketosis or if we hit that hive of honey we'd say, oh, I really only should have a teaspoon because I'll break ketosis. Or the worst thing is if that apple tree we stumbled upon oh, I'm only gonna have a bite of apple because it'll break my ketosis. Well, of course not. We, as people will learn in the energy paradox normally if we're doing everything right we should be cycling in and out of ketosis actually every 24 hours. And then there would be times when in the past we wouldn't find much to eat for days at a time. And one of the reasons humans have taken over the planet like locus is we have the ability to go extended periods of time without eating and be in ketosis. But that doesn't mean that that is the nutritional state that we should always be in. And you'll see that in the upcoming energy paradox. So no, you should not always be in ketosis. Well, thank you for answering that question which actually leads me into my next question to you which feels so weird that I get to ask you questions but I am dying for your new book to come out. I cannot wait the energy paradox. Can you tell us one little sneak tip that we can take home today? So the energy paradox really is we are overfed and underpowered. And the reason we're underpowered surprisingly is because we are constantly eating paradoxically energy rich foods. And we have overwhelmed the ability of our energy producing organelles in the mitochondria to actually efficiently produce energy with the incoming mass of traffic going into our mitochondria. 16 hours a day and work by Dr. Sachin Ponda out of Swagg Institute in San Diego has shown that the average American is eating 16 hours a day on average. And people shake their heads and say, no, there's no way. But in fact, this is human research using apps on phones. And the average person is having some form of food during a 16 hour time period every day. It's overwhelming for your digestive tract, I can assure you. Exactly, and it overwhelms our mitochondria. So there's a little tip for the energy paradox. Thank you, yeah. One last question for you, Dr. Gundry. What is your favorite recipe? And can I just add a little caveat onto that? Do you often drink a red wine and does that get the way of you fitting everything in with your diet and then all? No, I literally try to force myself to have a glass of red wine every day. And I've gone into a book why I do that. The caveat is if you don't drink, don't start. And the other caveat is if one glass of red wine is good for you, that doesn't mean two bottles of red wine is better for you. In fact, I understand that. I know you're in the Napa Valley and we have to promote red wine which I'm happy to do. But it follows a hormetic curve that I talk about in the book where in general, hormesis says that which doesn't kill me makes me stronger, but all hormetic foods like wine, red wine follow a curve. None is not so good. Some is good, but more is really not so good. And I talk a lot about this in the energy paradox. We call it the Goldilocks effect. Just right. And we wanna hit just right. Oh, okay. We can't. You know, I have so many favorite recipes, but I think the one that I like probably the best is egg roll in a bowl because it's number one incredibly easy to make no matter how busy you are, you can put it together. It really delivers a lot of gut buddy supporting material and it tastes good. So, and you can find it on YouTube on my videos. So yeah, I kind of like egg roll in a bowl. That was one of the most fun ones I think we ever did. All right. So it's been great fun to have you and congratulations on turning your health and your dogs and cats' lives around. And really if folks are listening in or watching Napa Dog, let's get some investors piling in there and get her, let's blow her up, okay? Love it. Thank you so much, Dr. Gundry. I so appreciate it. Well, thanks for coming on the program and keep up the good work. And I'm gonna go home and have some of your dog food myself. I'm not gonna share with my dogs. All right, take care. Thank you, bye-bye. It's time for the review of the week. Courtney Chepotel from YouTube watched the interview on breath with James Nestor and said, thank you, Dr. Gundry, as a decades-long sufferer of recurrent sinusitis. I have found this podcast as I find all of your podcasts absolutely fascinating. I truly appreciate that you focus on the oral microbiome as well as the gut microbiome and overall health. Keep the great interviews coming, exclamation mark. Courtney, thanks so much for your kind words. You know, it's reviews like this that help us reach a bigger audience and support our mission to transform the lives of people all over the globe. And I really particularly enjoyed that interview and I've just recently sent James Nestor a review of his book that hopefully will be posted on the upcoming release of that book. I really think it's a really, it's important, at least to me, that we welcome all aspects of improving our body and our health. And there's areas that obviously I'm interested in nutrition but that doesn't mean we should neglect the other key essential part of nutrition and that is the air we breathe and the way we breathe that air. So I'm glad that hit a note with you and I hope other people listen to that one as well. So that's it for today's episode and we'll see you next week because I'm Dr. Gundry and I'm always looking out for you. Before you go, I just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts because I'm Dr. Gundry and I'm always looking out for you.