 From Santa Clara, California, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's the Cube. Covering Altitude 2020, brought to you by AVIATRIX. Our next panel is the AVIATRIX certified engineers, also known as ACES. This is the folks that have certified their engineering, they're building these new solutions. Please welcome Toby Foss from Informatica, Stacy Linear from Teradata, and Jennifer Reed with Victor Davis to the stage. I want to know where, oh there it is! I was just going to ask, where's the jacket? You got to show it, maybe. Where's your jacket, Toby? I forgot it. Okay. You get it, that's awesome. I was just going to, I was just going to rib you guys and say, where's your jackets? And Jen's got the jacket on. Okay, good. Love the AVIATRIX ACES pilot gear there, above the clouds, soaring to new heights. That's right. So guys, AVIATRIX ACES, I love the name, I think it's great, certified. This is all about getting things engineered. So there's a level of certification, I want to get into that. But first, take us through the day in the life of an ACES and just to point out, Stacy's a squad leader, so he's like a... Squadron leader. Squadron leader, squadron leader, so he's got a bunch of ACES underneath him, but share your perspective day in the life. Jennifer, we'll start with you. Sure, so I have actually a whole team that works for me, both in the North America, both in the US and in Mexico. And so I'm eagerly working to get them certified as well, so I can become a squad leader myself. But it's important because one of the critical gaps that we've found is people having the networking background because you graduate from college and you have a lot of computer science background, you can program, you've got Python. But networking and packets, they just don't get. And so just taking them through all of the processes that it's really necessary to understand when you're troubleshooting is really critical. And because you're gonna get an issue where you need to figure out where exactly is that happening on the network, you know? Is my issue just in the VPC, is it on the instant side, is it a security group or is it going on-prem? And is it something actually embedded within Amazon itself? I mean, I troubleshot an issue for about six months going back and forth with Amazon and it was the VGW and VPN because they were auto-scaling on two sides and we ended up having to pull out the Cisco's and put in Aviatrix so I could just say, okay, it's fixed and actually help the application teams get to that and get it solved. But I'm taking a lot of junior people and getting them through that certification process so they can understand and see the network, the way I see the network. I mean, look, I've been doing this for 25 years when I got out, when I went in the Marine Corps that's what I did and coming out, the network is still the network but people don't get the same training they got in the 90s. Well, it's just so easy to just write some software. The network takes care of itself, right? These software guys. I know, it's 60 desks. Toby, I'll come back to that. I want to come back to that problem solved with Amazon but Toby. I think the only thing I have to add to that is that it's always the network fault. As long as I've been in networking it's always been the network's fault and even to this day, it's still the network's fault and part of being a network guy is that you need to prove when it is and when it's not your fault and that means you need to know a little bit about a hundred different things to make that work. And now you got a full stack DevOps you got to know a lot more times than another hundred. And these times are changing, yeah. Tacey, you're a squadron leader. I get that right. What is a squadron leader first? Can you describe what it is? I think it's probably just leading all the network components of it but I think from my perspective when to think about what you asked them was it's about no issues and no escalation so if my day is like that, I'm happy to be out there. That's a good outcome. That's a good day. Yes, it is. Is there a good day? Is there a good day? Well, you just said you had a good day with Amazon. Jennifer, you mentioned the Amazon thing. This brings up a good point. When you have these new waves come in you have a lot of new things, new use cases, a lot of the finger pointing it's that guy's problem, that girl's problem. So how do you solve that and how do you get the young guns up to speed? Is there training? Is this where the certification comes in? This is where the certification is really gonna come in. I know when we got together at re-invent one of the questions that we had with Steve and the team was what should our certification look like? Should we just be teaching about what Aviatrix troubleshooting brings to bear? Like what should that be like? And I think Toby and I were like, no, no, no, no. That's going a little too high. We need to get really low because the better someone can get at actually understanding what's actually happening in the network and where to actually troubleshoot the problem, how to step back each of those processes. Because without that, it's just a big black box and they don't know, you know? Because everything is abstracted in Amazon and in Azure and in Google. It's abstracted and they have these virtual gateways. They have VPNs that you just don't have the logs on. And so you just don't know. And so then what tools can you put in front of them of where they can look? Because there are flow logs. Well, as long as they turned on the flow logs when they built it, you know? And there's like each one of those little things that, well, if they had decided to do that when they built it, it's there. But if you can come in later to really supplement that with training to actually troubleshoot and do a packet capture here as it's going through, then teaching them how to read that even. Yeah, Toby, we were talking before we came up on stage about your career. You've been networking all your time. And then, you know, you're now mentoring a lot of younger people. How is that going? Because the people who come in fresh, they don't have all the old war stories. They don't, they don't. They talk about, you know, that's never fall. I walk in bare feet in the snow when I was your age. I mean, it's so easy now, right? They say, what's your take on how you train the young people? So I've noticed two things. One is that they are up to speed a lot faster in generalities of networking. They can tell you what a network is in high school level now where I didn't learn that till midway through my career. And they're learning it faster, but they don't necessarily understand why it's that way here. You know, everybody thinks that it's always slash 24 for a subnet and they don't understand why you can break it down smaller or why it's really necessary. So the ramp up speed is much faster for these guys that are coming in, but they don't understand why and they need some of that background knowledge to see where it's coming from and why is it important. And that's old guys, that's where we thrive. Jennifer, you mentioned you got in from the Marines. Tell us about when you got into networking, how, what was it like then and compare it now? Oh my God. It's almost like we heard earlier static versus dynamic. Don't be static. Back then, you just set up the network, you got a perimeter. Yeah, no, there was no such thing. So back in the day, I mean, I mean, we had Banyan Vines for email. And you know, we had Token Ring. And I had to set up Token Ring networks and figure out why that didn't work because how many of the things were actually sharing it. But then actually just cutting fiber and running fiber cables and dropping them over shelters to plug them in and oh crap, they swung it too hard and shattered it. Now I gotta figure eight polish this thing and actually shoot light to see if it works. I mean, that was the network, crimp five cat five cables to run an ethernet. And then from that to setting up the network switches, dumb switches, like those were the most common ones you had then actually configuring routers and logging into a Cisco router and actually knowing how to configure that. And it was funny because I had gone all the way up and was a software product manager for a while. So I've gone all the way up the stack and then two and a half, three years ago, I came across to work with Entity Group that became Victor Davis, but we went to help one of our customers, Avis. And it was like, okay, so we need to fix the network. Okay, I haven't done this in 20 years, but all right, let's get to it. Because it really fundamentally does not change. It's still the network. I mean, I've had people tell me, well, when we go to containers, we will not have to worry about the network. And I'm like, yeah, you don't, I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then with this program abilities is really interesting. So I think this brings up the certification. What are some of the new things that people should be aware of that come in with the AVHRX-A certification? What are some of the highlights? Can you guys share some of the highlights around the certification? I think some of the importance is that it's, it doesn't need to be vendor specific for network generality or basic networking knowledge. And instead of learning how Cisco does something or how Palo Alto does something, we need to understand how and why it works as a basic model and then understand how each vendor has gone about that problem and solved it in a general. That's true in multi-cloud as well. You can't learn how cloud networking works without understanding how AWS, and Azure, and GCP are all slightly the same, but slightly different and some things work and some things don't. I think that's probably the number one take. I think having a certification across clouds is really valuable because we heard the global SI as you help with the business issues. What does it mean to do that? Is it code? Is it networking? Is it configuration? Is it AVatrix? What is the, I mean obviously AVatrix is the ace certification, but what is it about the multi-cloud that makes it multi-networking and multi-bender and what is it? Easy answer is yes. Yes, it's all of us. So you gotta be a general. Let's get your hands in. You have to be. Right, and it takes experience because it's, every cloud vendor has their own certification, whether that's SysOps and advanced networking and advanced security or whatever it might be. Yeah, they can take the test, but they have no idea how to figure out what's wrong with that system. And the same thing with any certification, but it's really getting your hands in there and actually having to troubleshoot the problems and actually work the problem and calm down. It's going to be okay. I mean, because I don't know how many calls I've been on or even had AVatrix join me on, it's like, okay, so everyone calm down. Let's figure out what's happening. It's like we've looked at that screen three times, looking at it again, it's not gonna solve that problem. But at the same time, remaining calm, but knowing that it really is I'm getting a packet from here to go over here, it's not working. So what could be the problem? And actually stepping them through those scenarios, but that's like, you only get that by having to do it. And seeing it and going through it and then get it. I have a question. So I just see it, we started this program maybe six months ago, we're seeing a huge amount of interest. I mean, we're oversubscribed on all the training sessions. We've got people flying from around the country, even with coronavirus flying to go to Seattle to go to these events, we're oversubscribed. The good squadron leader would put there. Yeah, that's right. So is that something that you see in your organizations, are you recommending that to people? I mean, I'm just, I guess I'm surprised, I'm not surprised, but I'm really surprised by the demand, if you would, of this multi-cloud network certification because there really isn't anything like that. Is that something you guys can comment on, or do you see the same things in your organization? I see it from my side, because we operate in a multi-cloud environment, so it really helps and it's beneficial for us. Yeah, true. I think I would add that networking guys have always needed to use certifications to prove that they know what they know. It's not good enough to say, yeah, I know IP addresses or I know how a network works and a couple little check marks or a little letters by your name helps give you validity. So even in our team, we can say, hey, we're using these certifications to know that you know enough of the basics and enough of the understandings that you have the tools necessary. Right, so, okay. I guess my final question for you guys is why an A certification is relevant? And then second part, share with the live stream folks who aren't yet A certified or might want to jump in to be AVH or certified engineers, why is it important? So why is it relevant and why should someone want to be an A certified, an AV certified engineer? I think my view is a little different. I think certification comes from proving that you have the knowledge, not proving that you get a certification to get, I mean, they're backwards. So when you've got the training and the understanding and the, you use that to prove and you can like grow your certification list with it versus studying for a test to get a certification and have no understanding of the... Okay, so then who's the right person to look at this and say, I'm qualified? Is it a network engineer? Is it a DevOps person? What's your view? You know, is it a certain... You know, I think cloud is really the answer. Yeah. It's the, as we talked, like the edge is getting eroded, so is the network definition getting eroded. We're getting more and more of some network, some DevOps, some security, lots and lots of security because network is so involved in so many of them that it's just the next progression. Yeah. Casey, you wanna add something there? I would say I expand that to more automation engineers because we have those now, so I'd probably extend that field as well. Jennifer, you want to add something? Well, I think that the training classes themselves are helpful, especially the entry level ones for people who may be quote unquote cloud architects but have never done anything in networking for them to understand why we need those things to really work. Whether or not they go through to eventually get a certification is something different but I really think fundamentally understanding how these things work, it makes them a better architect, makes them a better application developer but even more so as you deploy more of your applications into the cloud, really getting an understanding even from our people who've traditionally done on-prem networking, they can understand how that's gonna work in the cloud too. Well, I know we got just under 30 seconds left I want to get one more question in, just one more. For the folks watching that are maybe younger that don't have that networking training, from your experiences, each of you can answer why should they know about networking? What's the benefit, what's in it for them? Motivate them, share some insights on why they should go a little bit deeper in networking. Stacy will start with you and go down there. I would say it's probably fundamental, right? If you want to deliver solutions, networking is the very top. I would say if you fundamental of an operating system running on a machine, how those machines talk together is a fundamental change, is something that start from the base and work your way up. Jennifer? Well, I think it's a challenge because you've come from top down, now you're gonna start looking from bottom up and you want those different systems to cross-communicate. And so you've built something in your overlapping IP space, not that that doesn't happen, but how can I actually make that still operate without having to re-IP and re-platform? It's just like those challenges, like those younger developers or assist engineers can really start to get their hands around and understand those complexities and bring that forward in their career. They gotta know how the pipes are working. That's right. It's the plumbing. That's right. And they gotta know how it works and how to code it. That's right. Awesome. Thank you guys for great insights. ACE, Certified Engineers, also known as ACEs, give them a round of applause. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for telling me that was great. Thank you. Okay. All right. That concludes my portion. Thank you, Steve. Thanks for having me. John, thank you very much. That was fantastic, everybody. Round of applause for John Furrier. Yeah. So, great event. Great event. I'm not gonna take long. We got lunch outside for the people here. Just a couple of things. Just call to action, right? So we saw the ACEs, for those of you out on the stream here, become ACE certified, right? It's great for your career. It's great for knowledge is fantastic. It's not just an Aviatrix thing. It's gonna teach you about cloud networking, multi-cloud networking, with a little bit of Aviatrix, exactly what the Cisco CCIE program was for IP network, that type of the thing. That's number one. Second thing is learn, right? So there's a link up there for the join the community. Again, like I started this, this is a community. This is the kickoff to this community and it's a movement. So go to community.Aviatrix.com, starting a community on multi-cloud. So get trained, learn. I'd say the next thing is we're doing over a hundred seminars and across the United States and also starting into Europe soon, where we'll come out and we'll actually spend a couple of hours and talk about architecture and talk about those beginning things. For those of you on the live stream in here as well, we're coming to a city near you. Go to one of those events. It's a great way to network with other people that are in the industry as well as to start to learn and get on that multi-cloud journey. And then I'd say the last thing is we haven't talked a lot about what Aviatrix does here and that's intentional. We want you leaving with wanting to know more and schedule, get with us and schedule a multi-hour architecture workshop session. So we sit out with customers and we talk about where they're at in that journey and more importantly, where they're going and define that in-state architecture from networking, compute, storage, everything and everything you've heard today, every panel kept talking about architecture, talking about operations. Those are the types of things that we solve. We help you define that canonical architecture, that system architecture that's yours. So many of our customers, they have three by five plotted, lucid charts, architecture drawings and it's the customer name slash Aviatrix network architecture and they put it on their whiteboard. That's what we, and that's the most valuable thing they get from us. So this becomes their 20 year network architecture drawing that they don't do anything without talking to us and look at that architecture. That's what we do in these multi-hour workshop sessions with customers and that's super, super powerful. So if you're interested, definitely call us and let's schedule that with our team. So anyway, I just wanna thank everybody on the live stream. Thank everybody here. Hopefully it was very useful. I think it was and join the movement and for those of you here, join us for lunch and thank you very much.