 Hey guys, this is Matt Beck from FreeSalonEducation.com. I'm here with Gerard Scarpeci, right? That's right. Is that good? There's many ways to pronounce it, but that's my preferred. That was the correct way. There's a story behind it, as there is for everything. But do you want to tell me? Yes. Let's go. When my grandfather came to America, he wanted to be American. Came from Sicily. And in Italy, you would pronounce it scarpacci. But he wanted to, you know, he forbid his children to speak Italian. He wanted to be American. And he started pronouncing it scarpeci. OK. And that's just how my father did it. And that's how I've done it. And that's the story. That might just be how Midwest American I am, that I would just read it that way. Yeah. Well, yeah, because it's supposed to sound more American. But like, you know, if I'm in Italy or if I'm talking to Italians or people that, you know, really speak Italian, they usually would say scarpacci. And I don't correct them. But, you know, that's the story. Nice. All right, cool. So I'm really excited to be at a rojo first off, you know, in New York City. Or a rojo. Depending on how you want to pronounce it. Right. I never messed that one up. Or a rojo. So we drove up. I'm from Iowa. So and I moved here 10 years ago to do hair, to start my hair career. So just first off, driving into the city is like just a crazy experience. And then trying to park. And then, you know, finding this place. But I'm here. I'm excited to be with you. You were one of my number one guys I wanted to sit down with. So I'm excited to be here. Well, great. I'm honored. Thank you. So I want to start off a couple of things. Obviously, I want to get into what you're all about, your background a little bit. But the thing that I liked most about you and what I look up to you for is that right from your hairbrain.me profile, which we're going to talk about hairbrain in a second, it says, I'm just a guy who's dedicated his life to the art and craft of hair. And along the way, had great mentors who shared their knowledge with me. And I'm just trying to do the same. Right. And it's not a crazy, fancy bio. It's straightforward. That's what happened with you. And that's what you want to do for people. And I think that that's excellent. And everything I ever hear about you is that you're the most giving hairdresser there is. So. Well, thank you. So tell me about just who was your mentor. Who are those people you're talking about, I guess, is my first question. You know, I mean, for me, I've had so many along the way. I started, you know, the very first salon I ever worked in was owned by a guy called Vince Smith, a Vince. He's down here in Battery Park City, Lower Manhattan. He had a great, successful little business. And he believed in education. And he trained me, you know, weekly. And he was a disciple of Sassoon. So he would incorporate Sassoon training into the salon training. He was my first real mentor. And I learned from him really the service side of the business and the communication side and whatever he had to offer technically. You know, what I quickly learned from him was that I loved Sassoon. Right. And, you know, he was, again, a giving enough mentor that he told me, well, if you want, if you really love that, you should try to work there. The thing that I know most about you is that you're an educator. I don't know much about you as a stylist behind a chair, but you've educated a lot of people, right? You're a huge part of the education program here at Arojo. So why don't you tell me about what you do here and what your daily role is? Well, it's just kind of a continuation of the same story. You know, when I went to Sassoon right away, I was engulfed in an intense training program that was still, you know, really the predominant training program in the world at the time. And maybe the only one, I think that a lot of things have been added to the mix now. But around this is 1990, and that was still really the major focus. And right away, I was drawn to the strength of the company, which was education. So as soon as I finished my training program, I said, OK, now how do I become a teacher? And I always have had kind of the gift of GAB, which is kind of half the battle when you educate. So I just dove right in, you know, like a lot of these kids are doing here today. And I started training apprentices in the same program that I trained in. And then I was lucky. And you talk about mentors. Another one of my mentors was Stephen Moody. He would come to New York a few times a year. He was the vice president of Education North America at the time for Sassoon. He would come to New York to do the IBS show or to do a training at the salon. And I got to work with him. And he said to me, you know, I think you'd make a great full-time teacher. You know, Sassoon has an education department within it to run the academies, the cosmetology schools. And where's that at? I hear in America, it's based in Santa Monica. OK. And then in Europe, of course, it's based in London. And I was fortunate. You know, I'm now again here, a kid from Brooklyn. I'd never really even been on an airplane. And he gave me the opportunity. You know, they flew me out to California. And I got to work for a month. I thought, first, I never wanted to move to California. I thought, you know, New Yorker tried and true. After a month there, I never wanted to come back. I mean, there are a lot of great things in California, besides the sunshine and the things that the sunshine makes come from the earth. You know, it's a beautiful, wonderful place. And then I really fell in love with full-time teaching and met other mentors. And, you know, sometimes the mentors appear. You know, when I started at Sassoon, one of my good friends, who's still my best friend, Julian Perlingiro, he was like a year or two ahead of me. And he was one of the people training me on the classic bob or the ladies' basic life. And Julian's from Philly, right? Julian's from Philly. And he works with Paul Mitchell and Angus. And he had already been down this route. And he had already moved to California. So now I have Stephen telling me, you should do it. Now I've got a buddy that I worked with out there already. And, you know, it's just a continuation. So I've been, from early on, I mean, at this point, I'd only been doing hair for about four years, maybe five at the most. And I was full-time educating because I was in this, you know, Sassoon Academy. And I did that basically for the next, you know, almost 10 years. So tell me about like, so I just think about me being four years into doing hair and going to California and never been on a plane. Like, tell me about your mindset. Like, that's the stuff that excites me because it's like, you just got shipped out there to work with Sassoon, just in California. I think, for me, if I would have been in Iowa and somebody sent me to California, just out of nowhere and I'd never been on a plane, I think I would be losing my mind. So what was your thought process when you were going out there? I mean, from a technical standpoint, I knew I probably wasn't prepared because I was still a young hairdresser. But, you know, I kind of have balls. So I wasn't really intimidated by, you know, the presentation aspect or I've never felt shy to get in front of groups. And I like a good challenge. I'm very competitive. I think, for me, like, I never really feel prepared, necessarily. But I mean, not, I guess, prepared is maybe the wrong word. But I think when you have the confidence and the call and you just go for something, I think that that's cool that you did that because I don't think four years into the business, a lot of people would just have the confidence to even try, let alone actually go to California. I mean, you know, granted, I kind of felt like I did have the Harvard degree because it was like I went, I was at Sassoon for four years. Right, yeah. I did like a year working in a salon before that, getting real world experience. And then I went through a 16-month training program. So I did, I had that little bit of confidence. Plus, I just figured, you know, I can make it. I can make it happen. That's cool. So let me see. OK, so I saw a discussion. It's kind of been going through Facebook for some reason. And it's one of those discussions that you hear a lot. And it's talking about young stylists or people graduating from school. And they're going to salons. And they're leaving salons quickly because people are blaming it on they're not being taught the right way of the right thinking. I personally, I said last week on our podcast that it was, for me, I think it's more, we have to tell them about the journey and how hard it is and things that you've been through, that I've been working on going through, just the struggles that are actually in hard work, but then the reward that pays off at the end of it. What do you feel about that with when stylists graduate? It's a huge topic. I think in the past decade or so, I've noticed a big change. I mean, when I was a young hairdresser, and at that time so soon was the preeminent cosmetology school and perhaps the only branded cosmetology school, the message was it's a craft. It's going to take a long time. It's very hard. You're not going to make a lot of money at first. But if you dedicate yourself to it, perhaps you could be one of the lucky ones. But then I think what happened, and it's a natural progression, the product world, which is a multi-billion-dollar world, said, well, why don't we make our own hairdressers and let's open our own cosmetology schools and how are they going to be better? Well, they're going to be cleaner and fancier and they're going to look better. We're going to charge a lot more money. We're also going to tell them we're going to prepare you better. So I think, you know, I'm not trying to call them out. No, not at all. They're right up, Paul Mitchell. They've done a lot to upgrade the cosmetology school, but the student coming out also has this higher expectation right off the bat, you know? And I think in those programs, they say, you know, you're going to pay more to come to this fabulous facility and we're going to prepare you better. But this is the difference. That can't happen because it's a craft. It doesn't matter how well you're taught in the first year, how clean the facility is. Within a year, you're barely scratching the surface. You know, it takes six, seven, eight years of great mentorship to start to become a master in this craft. So I think that's kind of the root of the problem. And I realized that many, many years ago. I also think it relates back to how much more informed and intelligent the young people are these days. You know, when I was 19, I didn't have the world that my fingertips to find out all the information and compare and say, well, this isn't good and that's good. And I think, you know, what we've done here at Orojo has tried to tap into that and say, instead of fighting this, let's give them as much of an objective plan as possible. So they come in knowing a lot more and we then bombard them with even more information, and a very structured program. And pretty much every kid that's here, and I call them kids, some of them aren't kids, but every kid that's here as an apprentice could pretty much on paper tell you right now when they expect to be on the floor. It's that structured. Now it's, the ball's in their court, you know, so I think what happens back till they go to a salon and they say, I'm not getting the right education, that salon doesn't have that structure in place for them to know, I have to do six graduated bobs, eight one length trims, you know, 14 men's classic layers, they're gonna be graded, you know, and I can pass, I can, the structure has to be there. And I think they crave structure because there's so much more intelligent or much more informed. Well, I think salons really need, because like the salons I was just with four hours before this, before us. And I think a lot of them, the challenges is they don't even have a Facebook, they don't have, they didn't know what HairBrand was. They don't know, like there's no inspiration anywhere. And I think if stylists wanna move forward and inspire themselves, you're talking about a training program doing six bobs, you know, six one lengths, whatever. Most, you're right, like most salons don't have that. But even if they do, the consistency of it is the challenge. And even me getting a tour today here at Arrojo was like, you know what, I really gotta, I gotta step up my training program. I haven't hired anybody in a year and a half because I have a four chair salon where we have quite a few stylists and it's a little bit different, but it's not different because I think we're always making ourselves different in our head, I guess. As I was going through the tour today, I was like, you know what, I'm not up to par exactly with where I should be training wise. And it takes coming to a place like this or just being inspired by something. And that's what I love about HairBrand and freesaloneducation.com. For me, it's a source of inspiration for people that aren't in New York City that can be inspired. So let's talk about, I'll get into the razor tip in a second, founders of HairBrand, who are they? Myself and Randy Taylor are the technical co-founders, who literally started it. And then all of our friends in the education world, first people that we invited were friends of ours at Aveda, friends of ours at Paul Mitchell, friends of ours at Sassoon, friends of ours at Arrojo. I've been fortunate in my career that after getting that kind of Sassoon pedigree, I've worked for a lot of companies. And in most of those companies, was able to connect well with the hairdressers, the key hairdressers. And then when we decided to do something, when we decided to create HairBrand, we just reached out to all of them and asked them to promote it in their classes and in their events. And we never wanted to be the biggest or I don't necessarily want everyone that was in your class today to be a member of HairBrand. I don't wanna exclude them, but it's their fault that they don't know about things like that. You know what I mean? It's not that hard to be informed. So maybe they don't necessarily belong there. And again, it sounds negative, but I don't mean to be that way. It's like, I want this to be a community of the most passionate people. And there's plenty of places for people to go and dabble and learn about a new shampoo or see a new collection. But the difference here is this, the people that belong are the contributors. And they're the ones that are sharing and discussing. So we only want people there that really feel like they can contribute to the community. And I think, so tell me about, I call it the Facebook for hairdressers. I don't wanna call it that anymore. So explain to me, I know exactly. So explain to me how I, what you say, what is your description of HairBrand? I mean, HairBrand is a platform for passionate hairdressers to connect with other passionate hairdressers. To share information, education, photos, inspiration to celebrate the craft. It's a platform, it's a place where you can go. It's the, you know, the place where you can go where you know there are other people like you, you know? I mean, along the line, you know, I wasn't always made to feel great even at a place like Sassoon. I mean, you know, 60% of the people that I worked with they didn't really care that much about hair on a deep level. I mean, they might've been trained well and they were good at it, but they weren't hair nerds or overly passionate. You know, and we wanted to create, you know, a place where those people that were so overly passionate could feel connected and feel like a home. Right. And we also wanted a place where industry educators could stay connected. You know, here's a sad thing. So you mentioned before. I mean, I've been an industry educator for, you know, good part of 20 years. I would say the majority of people that I taught in those 20 years, especially maybe the first 15, wouldn't even know me if they saw me. Because, you know, you spend these two or three hours or three days connecting with them and hopefully helping them, but then there's no continued connection after that. And that was one of the reasons why it was Randy's idea. He's much more of a tech guy than I am. And we were doing these classes at Aveda and I wanted to like continue to follow up with the students and stay connected the way Lupe Vos has done with her hair color magic group. So that's another, you know. She's got over 1,000 people on that group. 1,500, you know. Unreal, it's awesome. Actively engaged, asking questions every day about color and formulation. And, you know, I mean, what she's contributed to a brand that doesn't even necessarily pay her in any way for it is stupendous, that you can't pay for that kind of marketing and connectivity. Right. And that's when, so when me and Thad both, we started with Hairbrain and that was really our inspiration for deciding to create videos. Because before, I mean, YouTube is an outlet. And yeah, we, we, It's not niche enough. I love YouTube because of the following that we've been able to create. But the fact is, Hairbrain, you put it on there. The people that watch it are hairstylists, you know. And YouTube, it could be anybody. But me and Thad just decided, you know what? We love cutting hair. Normally on Wednesday nights, we would go, you know, have a beer or something after work and talk about hair the whole time. So we're like, you know what, let's just film it. We had a crappy camera laying around. We were like, let's film it, edit it, put it together. I think I know how to do this. And so we put our first video on Hairbrain. And, you know, it got a little bit of a response. And it was like, you know what, let's just do this. Let's have fun with it. And then it evolved into, well, how do we organize it? And then Friislan Education came about. But it, but I love Hairbrain because it is the outlet for hairdressers to share anything. Well, it's a place to ship what you've created, you know. And I think that that's an important word because, you know, I hear from hundreds of people all the time about things that they're doing and creating, but they never ship them. They never, you know, it's always in the planning stages. And I think what you guys did is exactly the way that great things get created. You just do it. And then you put it out there and you keep making it better and better and better. You can't wait forever. So if you have a crappy camera and you've got a good idea, it's better than a crappy idea and a good camera. You know what I mean? And unfortunately, that's mostly what we end up seeing, you know, people, I've seen videos and collections that they've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on. Nobody watches them. Nobody cares. Well, in this world, like I was talking to a company and they were telling me that, you know, we have this unbelievable collection for 2015. And I'm like, well, this world today, you got to put out content every other day. Otherwise, like you said. Hourly. Exactly. Otherwise, no one remembers who you are. You know, it was, it was cool. Like it's just, it's cool. Like we went to the New York care show and people, I've been working. I worked for Paul Mitchell for 10 years. And I would go to the New York show every year and no one would have a clue who I was. And then, you know, we put out videos on YouTube four or five times a week and we go to the New York show and we got people taking pictures. And it's not even about that, but it's about the fact that we're actually connecting with people finally because you can't sit back and wait for, you know, for it to evolve. You have to just go do it. Absolutely. All right, let's see what, my next question was what, what is the future of HairBrain? What are you guys trying to do? What's the, what do you guys call it? You know, I, I, this has been a big realization for me because, you know, I mean, people see the growth and the success and I get it this question, you know, what's your five year plan? What's this? What's that? I just felt kind of guilty or bad about the fact that I don't have a five year plan and we've never thought that way about HairBrain and I read something recently that has really cleared it up for me that I think was quite brilliant. And I was reading a Seth Guden blog and he mentioned, you know, that there's three kind of games you can play. There's a short game, a long game and an infinite game. And I was intrigued by that and I started reading it and the short game is, you know, I'm going to do something right now, you know, for the next six seconds that better pay off after that. You know, I'm doing something, there's, it's going to begin, it's going to end, I need to pay off. The long game, you know, you're willing to do it and stretch it out a little bit longer because you want a bigger payoff. And then there's the infinite game where the whole point is to just keep playing the game. And that's what HairBrain is. The whole point is to just keep playing and moving forward. You know, that's the big picture. You know, so we want to keep making the game more and more fun and adding things to it. So we've added obviously the awards this year. You guys were nominated for a HairBrain Video Award. Which was a great party by the way. It was a great party. And I think I really believe that it's going to become a very important recognition and an award and a center for hairdressers that are creating valuable content for other hairdressers. I think for true hairdressers, it will be the award. I know that it's your thing. So from my standpoint looking at it, it's the one award that I would work towards getting. You know, because I think that it comes from a totally different place. There's not a dollar sign behind it. There's a, you know, it's coming from people that every stylist that's on HairBrain looks up to. So I think that's really good. So, and then going off that, we've always done meetups and we're expanding those. You know, that's where the community actually can come together. Again, in a more party-like environment, seems to be something the hairdressers like to do. And we're doing these meetups at major events. But we also want to get into educational events, you know, not necessarily shows and circus-like kind of things. But, you know, when I was a young hairdresser, it's as soon as we used to have something called a teach-in. And, you know, it's pretty much more of a European term. But it was, you know, always held in the academy and people would come from all over. And there would be some presentations of models, but then it would be a much more technical. You'd walk away having learned something technical. And, you know, we want to build off of that, you know. And give the people that participate in it a chance to make some money. You know, the independent educators or even educators that are affiliated with brands a chance to have a stake in something that's bigger than just their one name. Right. You know, and that's been another big part of Hairbrained is, you know, all these different, and they were all our friends and all people that we worked with. And, you know, they've all gone off and kind of continue to build their own brands. So we want to pull everyone together to do events that, you know, cover different sectors of the industry and give something valuable to the people attending and the people that are participating, they should make money off of it. Right. Absolutely. I like that. And then, so, and, oh, the meetup. That's what I wanted. So the meetup is that from Mere Orlando, the next one. Yep. What day is that? You know? It's June 1st, Sunday, June 1st. So here's the story behind meetups. I mean, you know, we've been going to trade shows. I've been going to trade shows since I'm 19 years old and usually the most intriguing part is kind of what happens afterwards at the closest bar where all the hairdressers, the educators, the people that are working the show, attending the show, get together, talk about the vibe of the show, the things that they saw, the things, you know, the networking of what's happening in the industry. So, you know, just like many things, we decided, you know, about five years ago to try to attach hair brain to that, to brand it. So the Long Beach show is really the first place. And, you know, our largest membership is in California. Okay. And that's also where it just happens to be where the most hairdressers are. And I think that a lot of them are independent, so they need something to belong to. So we started five years ago doing meetups at the Long Beach show that the PBA puts on, the ISSA. And it was always an informal thing. So it was kind of like the old rave days where, you know, you would just send out a message and people would meet up. Right. And it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger. This year we had, you know, 150 people turn up at a little tiny hotel bar and they had to put up a rope to keep out the other 100 people because they couldn't even come in to kind of hang out just to network and connect with like-minded people. So we've finally decided to take it to the next level to get a much larger space. So now in Orlando, at the premiere show, it's attached to the old Peabody hotel. Okay, that's cool. It's not called the Peabody anymore. They change it to the Hyatt. And they've got a beautiful big bar there. So I called up and said, you know, how much would it cost to block out this bar or make a VIP area? Yeah. So, you know, they wouldn't give us the whole bar, unfortunately, because we really could have used it, but they gave us a large area for 125 people to have an open bar and to attend. And we reached out to brands that we feel are good for hairdressers. I mean, that's always been our kind of perhaps deciding point of who we work for. It's like, you know, because there are plenty of brands that have plenty of money, but they're not all good for hairdressers, you know? So for us, it's, you know, we're not a media company. We're not just saying, okay, well, you have money for an ad and I've got some ad space, so we'll take your money. We're partnering. You know, we think of it almost like a PBS type thing. Yeah. You know, we have a community that's creating valuable content and things that are good for hairdressers. Do you want to sponsor that? We don't actually need anything from them. We don't ask them to create content. I don't want a collection. Right. I've got 10,000 pictures every month. Yeah. So it's kind of the reverse way of thinking, do you want to sponsor that? You know, and that's what we said. You know, we've got these great meetup going on. Do you guys want to sponsor it? And we were able to, you know, limit it to four brands plus the PBA, who are really the only association for hairdressers that work behind the scenes with advocacy and governmental issues. And I'm learning a lot more about it because, you know, like most hairdressers, I haven't been that aware of what goes on behind the scenes, but that's really the only governmental advocacy group. So, you know, the brands that'll be sponsoring us for this meetup, it's in association with PBA and then we're sponsored by Orojo, Aesthetica Magazine, Millennium Salon System and Hatori Hanzo Shears. And the idea was to have distinctly different brands from different sectors. So you've got a product and an education company in Orojo, a media company in Aesthetica, a tool company with Hatori Hanzo, and what's the fourth one again? Oh, and Millennium, of course. Of course, Millennium. You know, are really, someone that I'm really proud to be affiliated with because I think they've brought so much to the success of hairdressers through the systems that they've created. And I think John Harms is a very intelligent man who's got a lot to bring to the game. So Millennium has also involved that. That's why I always attach to that company because right away when you walk into the building, you know that it's not just software. And that's, so that's cool. I'm glad to see them on board with HairBrain as well. All right, so I have one thing. So we have a razor here. So since we're standing here, and I've tried to figure if that is my razor right there or no. So I have tried to figure out this thing, right with the finger and the hand. So why don't you walk me through this so that I can see how you hold the razor and just give me a little, a couple of tips, your two favorite tips with a razor. You can use that guy and all that. So, you know, essentially after I left Soon, you know, over 13 years ago, I've been razoring almost every day since then. And it's through trial and error and working around other, you know, razor cutters. I'm fortunate to work with, you know, 100 people that cut hair with a razor almost every day. Yeah, I saw a lot of razor cutting going on down there. And you know, over the years, we developed something that I like to call the lock and load. And it's a way to keep you safe and in helping shore precision. So, you know, number one, a lot of people when they razor, they'll hold the comb like this. So what happens is the blade is loose and it can kind of dangle around and you don't have quite as much precision with your combing. Okay. So what we figured out years ago was to lock with the index finger. So you lock and then with these four fingers, you make a sandwich. You put two fingers on the bottom and two fingers on the top. And you know, it feels a little bit different from scissor cutting and it is different, which is good because we want to feel different to create something different. Right. So to start to train the muscle memory, you have to teach yourself to rotate. Okay. So, you know, you sit there in the staff room and you do this a hundred times and then you do this a hundred times and then you do this a hundred times and then you go at will back and forth and then you've got the control. Now we work with, you know, specific type of comb with a wider side for sectioning and for visualizing and moving the hair around and then a very fine side for a very even, fine, definite tension. Okay. So then the mastery, the reason why you have to learn to do that so that you can take sections, rotate, comb very finely, grab the hair and then kind of master your stroke. So then you're pinching just with your... Yep. We call this part of the blade the shaft. Yeah. And it is literally a pinch. So you pinch the shaft. Okay. Not an X-rated thing, but just kind of use what it is. And then, you know, if you want to do a very closed or tight stroke, you kind of pull your fingers in so you can make small strokes. So you got to pinch. You got to see that finger is actually pinching right there. Oh, okay. And you close that in and then you can make very tight closed strokes. Okay. To make lines. If you kind of start to open the fingers and loosen it a little bit, you can make bigger, looser, more kind of free form strokes. Okay. We'll try. We'll be working on that. Is it comb? All right. So let me see. So lock. Lock, we're locking. Yep. Right? Yep. Like that. Now make the sandwich. It helps to put the pinky on the bottom for stability. On the bottom. Yeah. Like this. Exactly. So there's your sandwich. Yeah, this isn't gonna happen. Let's start to practice rotating. Yeah, you're almost there. Go. Go, keep going. All right, all right. And if you can do that a hundred times in a row. Yeah, yeah. You'll start to build the muscle memory. You got to keep that locked. Oh, yep. Yep, for safety. Next time we meet, people get very bored with this, but next time we meet, I will be flipping this around like you would not believe. Good. Good. So I've watched Nick on video. And I've tried, but just, you know, we have a video educational website, but you can't learn it all from video. So that was really cool. And you know, it's about pulling the blade far away from the guests, from the client, from your work. So you see, when you're like that, you see where the blade is. Yeah. People comb through the hair, it dangles. I mean, I was able to manage this for the first few years of razor cutting, but I never felt I had the same control or dexterity as I did with scissor cutting. Yeah. And then when we kind of evolved to the lock and load, everything fell into place. Yeah, I liked that. That's cool. Awesome. So a couple of questions from the fans out there. Okay. The Gerard Scarpeci fans. So with all the different razors, which do you prefer? The Feather Plie. I mean, these are both Feather Plies. Right. At the Erojo has our signature red color on it, which is, for those of you that don't know, Nick is a big fan of Manchester United. Okay. So, you know, he felt this. Is that what it is? Yeah, that's what the red is all about. So there's lots of red. It's all coming together. We're in the process right now of actually making another customized razor, which hopefully Hairbrained and Erojo will kind of team up on. Very cool. Those of you who've been razor cutting for a long time, remember the original Plie was a transparent plastic. It was like an orange, I still have one, but they were too brittle and most of them broke. So we're working with the Feather manufacturers to develop some different handles. We did a wood one. Yeah. It was pretty much identical to the one that Bumble did. And again, the problem with that was they would break. They're too brittle. So we've talked about adding, almost making it like a Bowie knife where it's got brass here and here. It's still wood, but with the brass. That's cool. I like that. So that was the problem. I mean, I had that great Bumble razor for two weeks and it fell on the floor and then the wood broke. And then I was never able to use it again. Okay. Well, very cool. And then, so what percentage of the time do you use a razor versus a shear? 50-50. Okay. You know, I mean, sometimes I incorporate them both together in a haircut. You know, in terms of education, I mean, I figured that out a long time ago. And so did Nick. I mean, I don't want to be competing with all the best scissor cutters in the world to get classes and, you know, competing with every single person that's left so soon. So over a decade ago, I figured out what's something different that not too many people are doing, but people seem interested in. And that's the razor. So the straight razor especially, unguarded straight razor, living dangerously and really doing amazing things to hair. So when it comes to education, I'd have to say, you know, probably 80% of the time I'm doing razor education, 20% of the time, classic scissor cutting education, you know, as people still want to learn the foundations of precision. I spent the whole day today teaching men's graduate. Yeah, that was cool. You had a full class today. And you said it was a four week program? Yeah, we do something here twice a year called boot camp where students come and live in New York for four weeks and they become completely immersed, you know, 40 plus hours a week, five days a week from nine to five for four weeks. And the first week is classic scissor cutting, then we go into color and texture, then they come back to classic men's cutting, then they do some editorial styling and occasion styling and then the last week is all razor. Cool. So it's been a good time. Well, I love the facility. It's cool. I like the layout of it and how everything it's just, you have everything you could ever want in this building. I mean, it's separated really well. So, you know, it's cool that Nick did that. And I got the background story of where the first part of the salon was and how it expanded. So. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, you know, a lot of people don't know. I mean, you know, when Nick started, he had a four chair, he was a renter literally. He had a, you know, he had a big partnership uptown that didn't work out well for him and he didn't, he left with not much, $25,000. And he was able to rent a small space in the Aveda Institute around the block here, four chair space. And, you know, within 10 years had a $10 million a year brand. So $25,000 to $10 million. Now we can't say that TV didn't hurt, but how many hairdressers have been on TV that you don't hear about? And Nick's been off TV longer than he was on TV. Hasn't been on TV in, I don't know, six, seven years. So it's not, you know, it's not just about that. It's about creating a sustainable culture that's fueled by education, quality, dedication to the craft. And it's really not because when I, I didn't know Nick was on TV, but when I would go to the New York show, not even the presence because it was like he had his booth there, but it just, there was such a vibe of it was really just about cool hair, education, and just teaching people. And that was, I mean, just teaching people is always about. Yeah, and that, you know, for the professionals, obviously that's been crucial. And then for clients, you know, I mean, TV was obviously a way to get the name out. And also to get this out there, because Nick did literally hundreds of makeovers using a razor that, like I said, it was great for our education. Because again, nobody, they saw it and they didn't know how to do it. And they, you know, they asked their hairdressers and then their hairdresser said, I gotta learn how to do that. So it's all kind of worked hand in hand. Well, I mean, it is everything's an evolution. And I think if there's a hairdresser out there looking to be inspired, I think just listening to you talk is definitely enough to get somebody going. One other question from somebody on Instagram says, this is a question I've been thinking about for a while. How do you distinguish yourself from a hairstylist to a hair artist? And what can I do to become an artist? What are some great techniques? Well, I mean, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is you really don't. I mean, that just happens through, you know, I don't think you can focus on saying, how can I become an artist? I think you just have to immerse yourself in the craft first. You have to have references and you have to always be looking to create, you know, whether it's beauty, you know, I mean, the first part of my career I wasn't as interested in beauty. I wanted to try to, you know, create things that were striking or different or edgy or whatever the word is. And now the second half of my career, I'm less interested in that and more interested in, you know, how can I make this more beautiful? Whatever that means. So I think it's about who you hang around with. I think it's about being open to references, looking at art, but I don't think focusing on being an artist is necessarily the route to go down. I think it's just being open to doing the best you can do every day and learning from your mistakes. Copying, you know, that's like that old Picasso thing, you know, the best artists don't, what is it, they don't just copy, they steal, you know, if I see something that I think looks good, I try it and eventually you make it your own because if it's done with my hands, it's mine. I mean, I can't, you can't do my haircut for me. So I think by nature of what you're doing and the road that you're going on, you lead to be an artist. Awesome. Well, you heard it from the man himself. Let's, you don't want to plug anything. You got anything coming up besides the meetup? No, I just think, you know, if you're a hairdresser that's actually, you know, sat down and listened to something like this, you know, I commend you for, you know, having that level of passion and interest in what you're doing. And I think that, you know, you belong on Hairbrains and hopefully you're already there. And if you're not, come and check it out, you know? Yeah, it's cool. It's easy to set up a profile. Yeah. It's, you know, it's so you can share anything that you want. I love that you guys are always adding things like, I remember when my first video got featured on Hairbrain and it's just like such a good feeling. You know, it's being shared with the community of your peers and people there. That's ultimately the infinite game. There's always something to keep playing, playing it forward. You know, that's something that Nick has always said. And you know, I was just talking to him the other day about this infinite game because he always uses this saying play it forward, play it forward, which I believe comes from soccer or football. And I said, that's the kind of game that we want to be playing, you know? And if it's a, it doesn't have to be about yourself. So if I feature you, I've just played it. I've just pushed the ball forward. Right. I've just been pushing it forward and that's what it's about. Cool. And if people want to book you for education? They can get in touch with Loretta at arosionyc.com. Okay. You know, I do, I still do in salon education. My travel, you know, I don't do it as much as I used to. I used to make my whole career doing it, but you know, six to 10 times a year, I visit salons around the country and do hands-on education. All the major trade shows and events, but primarily the best thing to do would be to come to a Rojo NYC and take a class. You know, I tend to teach the majority of them along with the team here. And I think it's a great experience, like you said, to actually come someplace like this and realize, you know, what can I do to make that happen? Yeah. Yeah, I think the most, the biggest place that I look to try to inspire is people that can't be in areas like this and they're looking, sitting there looking for inspiration. They can't go to New York or they can't go to Chicago or whatever to see. Or they just, they can. I know, I know, I saw your face. I saw your face. I hate that. They can. I hate that. You, if you want success, you have to go out. I'm from Iowa, so I'm here. Well, you have to go out and get it. You know, I'm people, you know, a lot of hairdressers don't make a lot of money and they say it's where I live. It's where I live. And I say move. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's in every state in this country, you can charge over $100 for a haircut. Every single one, every state. It might not be the zip code you live in. You might have to drive two hours a day to get there if you don't want to move, but you can. Well, I live in a town of 3,500 people and I charge $100 for a haircut. There you go. So it can be done. There you go. And it works. So, Drard, thank you very much. It's a pleasure having you be a part of this. Having you at your place. Thank you for letting us come. Pleasure. I will see you. See you around.