 Hi, I'm Paul Dervis and welcome to the second episode of In the Belly of the Beast today's Interviewee is Anita Stewart the artistic director of the Portland Stage Company. Welcome Anita. Thank you for having me Paul. Well, it's a pleasure I'd like to start with talking to you a little bit about where you how you Came into theater because I know from your background that you originally went to school for Architecture, I believe is that correct? That's true Theater has always been in my life back when I was a small child I did a version of a little red riding hood in the garage with the garage door going up and down And I was the director of course and telling everybody what to do But it always seemed like something that was fun and not something that would really be part of my life So when I went to college, I started thinking I wanted to be a history major And went ran through all of the social history classes and was not interested in political or economic history And so started looking around for something else that made sense and architecture I love to draw and so that really was something that caught my fancy and So I ended up majoring in architecture and falling in love with it except for the fact that architects Build buildings that are going to be there for 50 to 100 years if you're a really good architect And that was a scary thought to me that anything I would create could be that long lasting So you transferred basically transitioned from architecture into theater well, I was doing architecture as my undergraduate major and I was doing a lot of extracurricular theater the school that I went to didn't have a theater major at the time and So I spent all my time after classes were over in the theater making work And having a great time with a really wonderful group of individuals What school was that if you like me? I went I went to Yale And I happened to be there at a time when a lot of people who are now very Instrumental within the industry Were there as undergrads as well So Michael service who's a Broadway star and Lisa Peterson and Tina Landau two really great directors It was really almost a renaissance time to be at that school And so I fell in love with that at the same time. I was doing this this careful study of architecture And did you go from yelling to New York who was there a non-triant to New York for you? Yeah, I moved after college. I moved into the city and lived with a bunch of roommates worked nights as a paralegal 7 to 2 in the morning at Skadden Arps, which has been in the news lately for not such good things and Then that fed my being able to I knew I wanted to do theater I didn't know exactly how I'd done a lot of directing and choreography when I was in undergrad But I was interested in this idea of set design and so I started going and working at various theaters interning I interned at Williamstown Theatre Festival for two summers and got to be the first Assistant to the designers that was a new position That Williamstown had created back when I was of an age And so I got to assist people like John Conklin, which was just an amazing experience for me That's quite an opportunity for it for a young person going into theater It was and that that really spurred me on everybody that I was talking to was saying that I should go back and get a graduate degree and Yale was the place at that time certainly as a designer to do that work and so after a couple of years I applied and got in and Spent the next three years Getting a design degree a theater design degree at Yale. And how did you use that when you got out of Yale? Well, I was I was very lucky When I was there I worked with a director named Andre Belgrater who is a well-known director And he and I got along really well. So I was able to do a production right after right after school Ramo's nephew that he did at CSC in New York and Then we did a couple of shows at CSC. So I was working with people like Stanley Tucci You know really great artists and and working with Andre and then that sort of led to me getting more work with other directors of note Doug Hughes So it I suddenly had a career that was taking off, but it was a regional career So you started working in regional reps. Is that correct? I started working in regional theater So it meant that I was going into a city for three to four weeks I was their resident while the show was going up and once previews would happen you'd be there through previews and then Opening night you'd pack your bags and you were on to the next show And for a good long time that was something that was a Really great thing to do But it hit a point where I found that I had this small group of people that I was working with Consistently and you would make this art, but it really wasn't it was for you And there was not really a connection to the people that were in the space and that got Sort of trying for me as an artist. I really wanted a community that I could be making work for Then that's understandable I do think that when you when you do work basically out of a suitcase that you can find yourself being a hired gun to an extent Yeah, and you rely on the same old tricks and the same way of approaching something and I'd been As part of that freelance career one of the places that I'd come to very often was Portland, Maine And Portland stage company back when Richard Hamburger was the artistic directors when I started coming here And I fell in love with the city as I think most people do when they come here It was just an exceptional place And I remember the porthole when it was really a porthole and there were the fishermen who would come in for lunch and their waiters and it was cement floors and it was it was fish and it was really down and dirty and it was an Incredibly real place and it made me fall in love with the town and working here I built a connection much more so to the audience members a lot of them board members Who you spoke to and people here really cared about the work in a way that I hadn't found in other Communities around the country down in Dallas People were worried about being seen so you'd sit behind somebody who was wearing this huge hat And it was clear that that's why they were at the theater was so they could show off the huge hat Not because of what was on the stage and Portland felt like a very different beast Well Portland is very different than that That's there's no question about that the people who go to the Portland stage or any of the theater companies here I believe are going really for the theater than they are to be seen at a theater. Absolutely. I don't think that's really a Aesthetic here So when did you actually become a member of the Portland stage company and what was your function? well, I Started I worked as an artistic director. I became the artistic director with Chris Akerlin We were co-artistic directors in 1996-97 was our first season together and we sort of got that job We're both designers and we knew that the former artistic director was leaving and Chris called me up and said hey We should apply and I'm like Chris were designers. Why would they hire us? They're looking for a director and he said no no no you and I have talked about this a lot And indeed we had because as a designer and seeing how different artistic directors ran theaters and theaters of this scale When it's a director who is artistic directing at least half of the season is going to be in their hands So you get one particular point of view and what we had to offer was that as designers We were going to be working with a wider range of directors So at Portland stage right now there are six to seven different perspectives that are given in a year And well, I will do a fair amount of designing I'm designing for a director and so what I do changes based on who that director is Rather than it being sort of the central focus of it so it gives Portland, which is a relatively small city a wider range of Just inventory of what what shows can look like what they can feel like what different voices can be And so that was part of what we sold the board on and we were able to meet with the board because we were Here doing a show and so it was easy for them to say sure come on in and we'll interview you because we just happened to be here They didn't have to pay for the Yeah, yeah, and somehow we sold them on it and I think for a long time He and I and then just me we were the only designers running major regional theater in the country and So it's a very different model I've worked in theater for 40 years and and I do believe that you are the first person that I've ever known to be an artistic director from the design point of view and What you're saying makes a lot of sense because you're right an artistic director is going to put their stamp on not only the season But each individual show I know for example, you know, Joe Papp would say to his directors You can do what you want to do but it better work, you know, so the pressure it was a different kind of pressure And you're clearly looking at it almost from a third person's perspective That you would be looking at and seeing what does this person have to offer as opposed to Having it to be what your feel is. Well, and that's that's with with plays It is the director really is the viewpoint of here's how we're going to approach it But I also know this community, especially now I've gotten to know it much better So I'll say here are the pieces that I Here's why I selected this play and here's what I think is Important and what is the important message to get across and how do you want to do this? And then it becomes a dialogue rather than Somebody from on top just saying here's how to do it I'm curious as to how you actually pick your seasons I know that other theater companies really oh they get a lot of feed from different people in the company The artistic director basically has an idea. This is what it's going to be. How does it how does it operate a Portland stage? It's it's it's a collaborative effort. It's both my staff I have an artistic advisory committee that I work with subscribers will often Say what what it is that they'd like to see people write me all the time Artists and people that come to the Portland stage Say here's a play that you really have to do a few years ago. We did heroes and Lenny Nelson Had seen it in London and immediately came back and said you really need to do this play and From that it became a seed and it took a few years for it to get into the season But it was something that I looked at and the artistic committee looked at and said wow This is this is a really wonderful play and it was something that really spoke to our community in a really nice way So you basically will take a play that you're interested in it may not fit next season But you keep it on the back burner. Absolutely. There's a lot going on and there's there are new plays. There are plays that We may be working to develop say with a Monica Wood or somebody so those that that sort of one Vane and then there's this group of plays that I know are really excellent plays that I think would be Really ideal for the Portland community and then we're always searching for new What is the piece that we don't know and I think the thing that I have the hardest time finding our Real good comedies. Yeah, that's that's the hardest Yeah, I agree with you. It's it's they're not really produced very often out except on Broadway and often They're really kind of low brown, right? So I could see that that is a challenge for you If you were to if I were to ask you right now, you know what your next season is I'm sure how far in it how far ahead do you have an idea of what you're doing? We start working. I'm starting to work two years out now in terms of just Thinking about what is out there. There are some newer works That I'm trying to figure out how we might be able to do that You have a very exciting commission idea that I can't talk about quite yet But there's there's new work that we're trying to develop as well So it is really thinking out into the future But we really nail it down a Couple of weeks ago was really where we said this is definitively What the season is going to be and we've just learned that we've gotten rights to everything So now we are in a position to announce and we have an illustrator who's furiously Creating designs for everything. So in just a couple of weeks We'll be able to present it out to the to the community perfect timing is Is is getting the rights to a piece for a smaller regional theater difficult your competing against theaters with larger Audience spaces and probably I would think maybe larger budgets. Well, it's it's Yes, it's it's a combination of things. What's great is that we are here in Maine So we're a little bit further off the beaten path But there are products that you just can't get the rights to and so it's it's really figuring out what we can do and when we can do it and Hopefully you do get the rights to things and are you yeah, you do a balance between new works and Either works that are classics or have been kind of re-functioned. It's classics What do you have a kind of a thematic idea of how you're gonna do that? I'm gonna do three new works and four pieces that have been heard of or how do you do that? It really every year varies and it's it's trying to create a season that has sort of a theme to it Next year's theme is really about boundaries and borders And and so each of the plays will deal with those sorts of issues as we're looking at it But but then it's also making sure that there's a good mix of things that are really thought-provoking Things that will push the audience things that are really funny things that are just Sweet and lovely and a good drama So it's trying to create a mix and balance it out so that we start with the bang you end with the bang and you go All over the place in the middle. So you are basically you're also balancing like the aesthetic of the average portlander versus What you think will be Provocative and I opening is that is that a tough balance? Yeah, and I think it's it needs to be a little of both We have we have it's it's sort of two sides of an audience One are our subscribers who have been with the Portland stage many of them since the very first days And they can tell you about every single production that's ever been done there and a lot of those folks really cherish and want the hard-hitting dramas and Yet when you do an arsenic and old lace you're going to bring in a far greater group of Regular people who just are interested in seeing one show a year. So it's a balancing act with how do you how do you fill seats? How do you do work that is going to bring everybody into the theater? But also how do you keep those people that really are at the core and at the center of the theater? Happy with what's happening. So one of the things you're doing is you're making sure that your long-term base is Satisfied with the two choices that you have at the same time you want to broaden your base Absolutely, I think that's essential and and that's we have education programs We reach 14,000 young people over the course of the year and part of why we've developed those so strongly is that to me Those are the audiences of the future and I think part of what we've seen is an erosion of that as people that are now in their 20s and 30s didn't have as strong a base of arts education as used to happen and so going to theater is not necessarily part of what they do and Trying to make sure that this is something that young people in Maine really have access to and see as part of their lives so that Moving on after both of us are gone that the theater remains something that is a part of what is important in our communities I completely agree with you when I don't know what year you went to you what years you went to Yale But when I went to Tufts you went to the liberal arts program and people got a really well-rounded Education now people want to go into engineering or whatever and end up not getting that education at all So they're not going to be naturally theater people I do think that one of the things of Portland stage and I've been here five years and And when I first came in one of the things that I found a little disappointing in Portland was that it was kind of a Fractured theater community. I think that in the five years I've been here Portland stage has picked up the mantle and I now look at Portland stage for example last I think it was January Or December you guys ran an open audition that you invited all the theater companies to come to and that was Very welcome for me and I'm sure from all the other artistic directors And I just feel like that is you know the kind of thing that that you folks can do and are now doing really well I also like the fact that I've gone to each one of the intern shows You know and I guess the and to allow those young people to basically run their own Small theater companies amazing, you know, it's what's missing. I think And and I applaud you for that and lastly You've at least a department at Portland stage has started putting together a clearinghouse of artists So that people like me can look for actors through your clearinghouse That is amazing and it's it's what Portland needs and you're doing a amazingly good job at that Thank you It's main theater collective and there's a whole website that you can go to and you can access all this information You can find out what all the theaters across the state are doing and this sort of came out of Strategic plan that we put in place about three years ago now where we talked about Portland stage really being a theatrical hub and trying to find as many different ways to reach out and connect within our community as we could So between education programs trying to bring Diverse audience into the theater trying to reach out more effectively to other local community Theaters and engage them and involve them. It was great to have that 30 30 different theater Company showed up for those auditions and hopefully those will grow and more and more people will come in audition And we'll be able to build something that's more like a stage source where you came from Boston and you know how That is such a useful Organization to have and you're also using your black box more and more for local theaters to come in and work in Which is beautiful? I mean it's a beautiful space It's I don't know what it's about a hundred seats or something like that It's 75 and right now dramatic rep is there and they're doing some great work And it is it's it's really wonderful to have that space hopping the fringe has been happening in June in our theater is part of the fringe festival and it's It's great to have a wide variety of different people Doing different types of work in there because it just brings our community into the theater in different ways and I do think that your education program Which probably is within the theater community not the most known part of you It may well be the the fertile ground of our future I taught in Ottawa at out of school speech and drama and I know how many of those students became theater goers And I think that you have the same potential for that You know to you're producing a lot of young people who may well Appreciate theater in a way that they wouldn't have a footwork for that program. Well, that is really the hope I think it is also worth mentioning to the greater theater community that Part of what's hard about running a theater like Portland stage is that we are a union theater So we're we run on the Lord contract and that really hamstrungs Me I have to use theater professionals Which means I'm paying a living wage And we do a three-week rehearsal period and have people here and working every day doing things And that's harder for people that are local community folks to fit into because they have lives and work That's true. Even that even the equity actors here often have full-time jobs, right? And I'm sure you're doing a three-week process You're probably doing a lot of 10 and 12s and whatnot Which would be really hard for local actors to be able to actually get the time for right So it's it's it's a real balancing act and we try to use local people about 35 to 45 percent of the actors that we use on Our stage our local but but it's hard and it also means that It's expensive and so that's why a lot of times our plays will be smaller cast size as opposed to I Wish I could do on our town. I wish I could do something of that scale Someday I saw a play called singer at the Barbican 25 years ago the best play I've ever seen it's gonna have a hundred actors Only in London would you be able to get away with that? But I keep on looking you won't be beautiful on your stage. It would be fantastic Yeah, so we're we're looking for ways to keep broadening and keep changing and keep growing and I would like to focus a little bit also on the On the playwrights that you work with do you have relationships where you'll work with one playwright? Multiple times is that something that you strive for? It happens sort of naturally we do we run the cloud or competition and the one one just closed And we get nearly 200 plays submitted into that. They are red They're it's a blind submission, so we don't know who's writing and we're gonna choose a winner that will be part of Not next year's season, but the season after that And so that's a great way and Clowder is New England writers So anybody can submit a play if you live in New England And it's a great way to get to know the artists and writers in our area and certainly people like John Cariani Who's almost main we produce the very first the premier production of that and he's come back a number of times And through things like little festival of the unexpected which we run every May It's a great way for us to build relationships with writers So we're looking for we're keeping building those relationships with old We're always looking for the new relationships as well. So it's it's a mix and right now we're we're I just came from the first read of New play by Eleanor Burgess called the nice cities which will be on our main stage Coming it's your next show. That's our next show is a new play. It may will be the show that's actually playing when this airs Fantastic. Yeah, it's it's hard hitting. It's it's a hard biting. It's it's tell us a little something about that actually it's it's a college professor a female and Older white woman and a student of color comes into the office to talk about a history paper and it's it's a little bit like Today's version of Oliana. It's it's hard hitting and Both of them are right and both of them are wrong And I think it gives us a lot of food for thought about where we're going as a country and what really matters in our lives I'm dying to see that I saw the original production of Oliana when it was going to Cambridge because David member lived there And I went with my managing director who's a woman and we came out and we said that was amazing She's so wrong. I said and she said he's so wrong. What are you talking about? And I said, that's perfect And I think that's that is what we're really after is that and there will be as many different opinions about who was right And when they were right, that's great. When does that open? Oh? You're putting me on the spot here three weeks from now whatever that is That will be playing in the month of April that will be playing in the month of April Yes, and your performances are six days a week. We Tuesday through Sunday And we have two shows on Saturday and there's in the third week. We have a Thursday matinee I think I've been given a cue that this is over and I have one Oh, and I have one more thing to talk to you about Because one of the things that really interested me and and I'm a father and a grandfather and the first time I talked to you You weren't available because you had to run from the theater to home to work with your 14-year-old daughter's homework And I thought you know that is what people don't know You know people think of the artistic director of the Portland State You're any place as you know somebody that walks around in a beret and you know you are a mother and you have a Responsibility and you clearly are dealing with that. How hard is that balance? It is hard. It's a 14-year-old son and I'm just gonna say no I'm gonna say that because if he sees He'll be mad my fault me a culpa But but it's I am blessed with an incredible partner who really makes it possible and Running a theater of the scale of Portland stage is a little like having a constant toddler And so it's been raising children with that and I think it what's good about it Is that they learned that they aren't the only thing but the theater also is not the only thing and I think it Moderates both just centered. It keeps me centered very much Yeah, what really matters in your life at any given time. It's not necessarily whether the light is exactly perfect. It's Well, I I'm with you there. I know how difficult that can be and I applaud you Thank you so much. I've been speaking with Anita Stewart. I It's a half-hour show. I could talk to her for an hour and a half more But does it really get a half an hour? So that's all I'm doing What I have a minute 30 to go. I'm I need a like a light or something Because I'm seeing your twos and I don't know what they mean So anyway, you're gonna splice this I hope Anyway, so well well and your and your partner is an actor as well as that correct actor and a director Yep, and and now that my children are a little bit older It's possible for him to get out a little bit more and so that's happening Which is a great great one last question as when you design a show with a director that you hired How difficult is that balance because you hired that director? You're the artistic director yet You are the designer for that person's vision. It's a really interesting sort of a cyclical Collaboration because I'm I'm the boss but of them and they're the boss of me and so it it it makes it much more of a dialogue than it does and coming from one direction or another and Most of the time as a designer I'm taught to collaborate and so I'm really going to try to work with you director Paul And say what is it that you want to do? But always in the back of my head what I've got is We're doing this for the people of Portland and what are they seeing whenever I'm looking at a piece I'm trying to look at it and sit there and say if I were somebody walking into this theater knowing nothing about it How am I going to what am I going to understand? How am I going to engage with this piece? And that's really how I love to work with you. We'll do a taste of honey. I'll say to you I want the walls to be decrepit. I want to see the frames. I want to see concrete I want to see broken and you're gonna say look I'm gonna give my own design here It's gonna fit what you want and I'm gonna say thank you. Oh That's that's lovely But it's it's great to hear and that that is for me. That's a big challenge is always making it new always making it fresh I'm not going to a million different theaters and getting to repeat over and over again Do you miss that you miss going to the theaters? Yeah, there are times especially when I don't have to worry when I can go and just design and not worry about our people Gonna come is it gonna be on budget is everybody gonna be happy our actors gonna be you know satisfied There's it's like a vacation for you. Have you stopped? I think we've stopped okay Are you gonna somehow be able to splice that together? Well, we've had Anita Stewart of the Portland stage company here with us tonight She is our first real guest because the first episode was the producer myself and I have been so honored to have her I'm looking forward to seeing her work in the future. I've enjoyed her work in the past and she is one fascinating young woman Thank you very much. Thank you Welcome to episode three of in the belly of the beast the show that interviews artists in the greater Portland community as well as southern Maine Tonight we have with us Lynn Cullen who is a storyteller a playwright a graphic artist and also a global traveler Hi, Lynn. How are you tonight? Good? Nice to be here. Could you tell us a little bit about your background? I was fascinated by all the places you lived here originally from where I'm originally from Waterbury, Connecticut and Then I moved to Boston for a few years after I got out of college. What were you doing in Boston? um, I was actually working as a graphic designer and It a print shop Do you mind telling us where it was called? Well, I actually first I worked at the Harvard Coupe and I worked at the coop. Yeah, they had an advertising department Believe it or not, and I worked at a place called Pandic Press and I worked at Crimson travel And then a place called BBC book binding and what years were those that you were living in Boston. That was from 1978 to or late 77 to maybe 1983. That's when I was running my theater in M. N. Square Where did you go from from Boston? I moved to New Hampshire and I was living in Allstead, New Hampshire And I was working at an agency in Cain for the best part of ten years So so far you're basically just bouncing around New England. Yeah, but halfway during my Ten years in New Hampshire. I went to and lived in Australia for two years Australia. Yeah That's interesting. What were you doing there? I was kind of being a traveler and a general, you know, bum and And I worked for I ended up working as a canvasser for a green-piece Australia I didn't have a green card or anything, but they weren't too picky back then I was gonna ask you that So you were there for how long I was there for two years. How did you like it there? I loved it. I would have stayed there if I could have figured out a way to do it. Oh, so and then Then I actually went back to the exact same job in place in New Hampshire where I had been before Spent another six years there and then moved to England Where at England were you? I was three years in England half of the time in Tumbridge Wells in Kent I worked in London for a bit and then half the time up in Yorkshire And I bet you it was an England that you started doing your storytelling. Is that right? Yes. I kind of know that Tell us about that My my then husband who was British he and I had moved to England and he's a field biologist And right after we found a place he got a gig and had to go had to go to Chile for three months So we moved into this apartment and I was banging around looking for work And I saw a sign up that said at this local pub the wonderfully named brokers arms He was having storytelling and I thought storytelling. Wow So I went and it was this little upstairs room and you have a pint of beer And there was some guy that had all these instruments like musical instruments and He told the folktales and I thought this is fantastic. It was adults. It wasn't kiddie stories And and then no rug rats on the floor. No, nothing of the kind. It was purely a grown-up thing it's it's a really big deal in England and And then they had a what we call an open mic and they call stories from the floor and I thought I really want to get up There, you know, this is fantastic and I didn't have anything so I I just thought well I'll tell a I told this kind of slightly off-color joke because jokes are stories as well Take a big risk here would you share with us the the First story the off-color story. Yeah, okay, and if you need to like, you know, close your you know Put your hands over your ears. I don't think it's that bad. No all right, so there were three couples who Wanted to convert to Catholicism and they saw the priest and he you know told the each of the couples that you know they'd done all the You know the training and the studying and he said you're you're almost there He said I just want one little test for all of you. I want you to go away for 30 days. Do not have Relations with your spouse and then you you come back and we'll talk so they all agreed and 30 days went by and You know the first couple came back and he said how did you get on my children? And you know they said it was very very hard, but we we did it, you know We were that dedicated, you know when and he said Bless you my children. You welcome to the Catholic Church And so they went away and the second couple came in and he said oh welcome my children How did you do and they said we lasted 28 days and he said oh and and you know The husband said we just you know We're so passionate about each other and we really did our very best and we just about made it But oh, I couldn't bear to be parted from my wife or she for me And he said it's the effort that counts you are welcome in the Catholic Church And so then the third couple came in and he said ah welcome sit down. How did you do? three days He said three days and you know the the husband said well we we really meant it You know to make it our intentions were good But I I was just kept looking at my wife and she at me and then one day I just saw her bending over the freezer and I just took her right then and there The priest said I'm sorry, but you are not welcome in the Catholic Church Yeah, I said the guy we're not welcome in Hanna for it either I Yeah, so that was that's what I told and how did it go over it actually went over pretty well because there were Like a three couples younger couples and the women throughout all the folktales looked very you know enthusiastic And you could tell the three young guys look kind of a little bit like we're here for Mary and Betty and Susan and and then when I told that they totally were engaged So they realized that it was not just you know fairies and elves and stuff So I felt good that I had an effect including the guys into the night. Yes. That's great. And you were hooked totally hooked I started Getting in touch with the other storytellers in England and you know going to to festivals there and You know by the time I moved back to New England. I was Really looking to do more with it now the culture of storytelling in England is pretty Hard and fast, right? I mean it's it's ingrained in the in the culture in England, right? Yeah, I think somebody once said it might have been Neil Gaiman like America has Geography and England has history and so they have all this stuff to tap into all their folk culture a historical culture from way Way back and so their main focus when they did the storyteller telling revival in the 80s was It's all about folk tales and myths and legends Whereas in America, it's more it's a little broader, you know that people do folk tales But more and more especially with the advent of things like the moth. It's more about I'm generalizing but personal stories and that type of thing do you find it I know you run a Storytelling series here in Portland. I'll let you talk about that in just a minute But do you find that it is more of an uphill struggle here than it then it was when you were working in England? Well is when it comes to getting to hear the kind of stories that I prefer to hear. Yes You know I started when I moved here going to there's a local storytelling group Moose the main organization of storytelling enthusiasts. In fact, I'm going there after this and It's they people there do a mix of you know some folk tales But over the years, it's more and more personal stories And so I started my club because I wanted to model it after the English model with all folk tales and myths and legends I mean people make an argument and it's a valid argument that some rap music is basically the same idea But you know as said is rap and you could make also the argument that the slam poetry is really that too Although it tends not to be historic But the idea of folk tales being passed along Fits into that mode Could you tell me what the name of your group is and how often they meet? Oh the one that I've created, right? We're called the Shanake nights and we meet on the third Monday of every month at seven o'clock at In the Yates room upstairs in bullfinis that beautiful round Room I'm gonna pretend. I don't know what that means. Can you tell me what can you tell me what the can you define the title? yes Shanake is The Gaelic Irish Gaelic word for a barter a story teller And so I wanted that in there because my main focus is Irish and Celtic And then I wanted to evoke kind of night after night of story So I chose Shanake nights to evoke, you know, a thousand one Arabian nights And so that's where that comes from and it means once a month once a month and what day is that in the month Monday nights at seven a Monday the third Monday the third Monday. How did I know that? I don't know third Monday at seven o'clock Yeah, and that's a bullfinis upstairs, right in that beautiful little space upstairs and When's what's the next? This will air Undoubtedly after the March episode so could you tell me what the April? Series will be yes the April one. I actually I feature a different story teller every month. They get about 80 minutes to tell All kinds of stories and we include music. I play music as do my regulars and But for I always leave a couple of months open for me to do something and I happen to be working on So I'm going to be the feature on April 16th, and I'm going to be telling stories from Ku Cullen Ku Cullen is the great Superhero of Ulster from back in the 8th century even earlier. It probably goes back even earlier You don't have a short piece that you could you could share with the audience right now Do you from that? Well, I could very quickly. I'll really abbreviate it the whole idea of how Ku Cullen got his name It when he was he was so precocious a warrior that when he was seven he already could beat anybody and his birth name was Sedanta and he was taken under the protection of King Concavar of Ulster and King Concavar saw him playing with the boys and was very impressed and he was on his way to a big feast being given by Cullen the Smith and so he told Ku Cullen I'm who was then called Sedanta come with us and he said well, I'm still playing with my friends Can I just meet you there? And he said fine. So anyway, Concavar gets to the the hall of Cullen and Before they sit down con says do you have anyone else coming? You know after your troop and He clean forgot about having invited his foster son And he said no no why and he said well I have a ferocious hound and I only let him out after I know everybody is In because he protects everything and he's just terror and he'll just rip anyone to pieces and And the pieces into pieces and so anyway, he said yeah, go ahead release him So meanwhile Sedanta is he's juggling his hurling stick and all this and he he finally gets there he walks through the gate and this dog is like comes at him and Sedanta doesn't miss a beat he throws up his his ball and he wax it so hard with a stick that it goes right through The dog skull it and out the other end and kills the dog dead. Sorry dog lovers I have a dog too, but anyway, they all run out King Concavara is expecting to find his you know nephew dead and and He finds him alive and he's overjoyed but Cullen the Smith is like you killed my dog This is this dog protected my livelihood and and Sedanta the boy says don't worry. I'll make it up to you and they're like how and he said I'll find you a pop just like him And I'll raise him to be every bit as fierce and good a hound as as your own but until that time I will be your hound and protect your your property and so The king said well from then on then your name will be Cuckullen Which means the hound of Cullen Cullen's hound and he said that sounds like a fine name And he was Cuckullen from then on until the day he died And that's only four minutes of like an hour and a half to two hours of what you're gonna do Yeah, the one I'm gonna do it's like a premiere where I'm working on it that one will probably be an hour with music My partner Kirk is she's gonna compose a score to go with it So that's just a trailer for it for Monday April 16 16th And if I'm not correct me if I'm mistaken Although there's no cost to coming. There's a donate suggested donation. Is that right? Yeah We ask for a $9 suggested donation or three beers or three years. Yeah for the teller Great now we haven't even touched on the fact that you're a playwright as well Can you tell me a little something about where that came from? Is that like a natural? Outgrowth of your storytelling or yeah, I guess you would say it is I was in England and Taking some writing, you know classes I was in some writing groups and one of them was even called writing for performance where we'd get up and do You know stories and monologues and when I moved from England back to New England and I chose Portland, Maine The first thing I did was look for some writing groups of some kind and all I found was Well, it was acorn was briefly called something else but acorn productions was offering Play playwrights classes and I thought well, I'm not that interested in doing writing for theater But it's writing so I started going to them and I I never stopped and I love play writing And tell me about which plays how many plays have you written? Have you written full-length one-axe 10 minutes? What have you done? I guess I've written about six full-length plays and maybe about 10 or 12 like one accent somewhere between 30 and 45 minutes and a whole bunch of 10-minute plays and do you do you bring the 10-minute plays to crow bait? I sometimes do yeah, and I submit them to various things as well We'll be talking to Michael tour of crow bait in the future crow bait is a monthly group that gets together the theater community and writers bring in 10-minute pieces And that's why I was asking Lynn about that Can you tell me about productions that you've had for me at plays? yes, a one-act play of mine called waiting for jack Was produced at players ring, which is a theater group in portsmouth new hampshire Was either two or three summers ago for their late night series. It got two weekends in a full production and I was really pleased with the outcome of it. That's great in a different audience important to why yes It was all different people right? Yeah Not necessarily people coming for you. They're coming for the play. Yes, which is always a treat I think for a writer it well. I had one really great thing happen because you know late night as a friend of mine said It's a lonely place the late night series But I did pretty well and I think part of it was the subject matter. It was inspired by um a story my father told me about he and his brother waiting all night in the in the rain in november two days before the presidential election in 1960 Kennedy jfk came to waterberry and so I made up a whole story about that And uh, there was a couple that came, you know, it was summer and they were from waterberry And he they were you know, they visit main and he was just that's what drew them to the play And he was so thrilled and he asked for a poster because I also designed the poster and uh, And I said sure I said, you know, I said I didn't have a spare. I said, I'll mail it to you And uh, he said well, what should little I owe you and I said just become a member of Players ring and we'll call it even so uh, he's got it hanging in his office I'm gonna be having you do all the graphic artwork for my theater now Because I'll let you be a member Could you tell me about you you segue beautifully into your graphic artwork? Could you tell me what you actually enjoyed doing and and what you think your uh interest is in that? Well, I've been working as a graphic designer for many many years and uh When I moved to Portland, I was a freelance graphic designer Working for several different agencies in Portland for about eight years And uh, then I got a full-time job, but now I'm done with that So, um, I I love doing well, I do every month for shonicky nights. I do a gorgeous poster So that's one of the say so yourself. I do say The storytellers it's one of the reasons they'll come all the way up from boston and so on to come and perform Because not only do they get like it's just a door split, but they get a poster really fantastic poster featuring them So, uh, I love doing that and I like doing anything that goes to print, you know, I do a lot of big infographics and brochures and are you worried that that's a dying art? You know it it might be but it's not there yet and and additionally I've done a lot of um Banners and icons and infographics for websites as well, although I'm not I mean between the fact that Paper into itself is disappearing. Yeah and you can generically make artistic things on websites in the internet. Yeah, um, which Personally, obviously it's it has no soul to it But not necessarily do people going to care about that. So I would be worried about the same way I'm worried about newspapers. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's it's Moving off but like I said, I am often required or asked to do Icons and things like that for websites people are working on as well. So Now can you talk to me a little bit about why portland? That's kind of interesting, uh, you know, I've always lived except when I didn't live in the country I always lived in new england and So I'd already lived in of course, Connecticut and boston in new hampshire And when I was coming back from england, I didn't want to do new hampshire again I wanted to do something different and I asked around And uh, I remember my knee saying, you know, this place is nice that place is nice But portland now you're talking and the idea that was right on the water uh, so I just um I just decided to do that. What year did you move here? 2002. Oh It's sort of after the portland Renaissance. It started. Yeah Yeah, because I'd been coming up here since I was young and there was a period of time when Conqueror state, which is what we're on now. Yeah was pawn shops, right? You know and everybody went to the mall you know, but it's really I mean the The uh Rejuvenation of the downtown core is spectacular. I think yes. Yeah, it is very much so So do you see yourself? Would you see yourself being in the in the next, you know, 10 years? Oh, gosh I don't mean portland, but I mean artistically. Oh artistically. Yeah. I mean well, uh, I would like to Disseminate, you know the the the beauty and the my passion for Traditional folktales. They're universal. I mean, I've seen every kind of permutation of them you could within that structure, which is so solid because it's been honed by Thousands of years of telling you could do anything and you could say anything you could Do any message and yet You know, it's also this story almost puts people in a dream state and I would just love to Convey to people it's it's It's related in a way to theater, but it's also very different. It seems to me the biggest difference is as a storyteller Because you create at least the own version of the story, right? Yeah And although you work with musicians, basically you're the teller. Yes, and when you're the playwright You've entered into a collaborative art form. Yes, and as much as and you know this from other people in your playwriting group You can't hold control. It doesn't work that way. Correct. You write a play A direct as a vision for the play Actors have a vision for their character within that play And it may not be what you want. Do you have a how do you feel about that balance? I um It took in the very beginning just a tiny bit of getting used to because I had not experienced it before You know being used to the composing and telling and um, but I love it. I really love it I love that you you hand it over and then it it becomes you know more than the you know the sum It's not yours anymore and that's liberating. Yeah, it is. I really like it I've always said my mind with theater is it's like effervescence in your hands Yeah, you open up your hands and bubbles go in the air and those bubbles are tonight's bubbles and tomorrow's bubbles will be different Yeah, and every every production and every performance will be new unto itself and not yours anymore Yeah, and I love that myself. I like that a lot and uh, you know and and of course there's a certain amount of uh I mean you can write it in such a way that you can keep it as close to what you might want as possible And then anyone anything beyond that that the director would like to do that It's fine. I'm happy to see it interpreted Can I talk a little bit about your personal life? Is that okay? Sure Um, do you are you doing like a nine to five or anything like that? No, not right now Okay, and you're okay with that because I know that can be a real struggle for artists, especially I think storytellers It is well. I'm in early stages of that. I've only been uh, you know not working full time since the beginning of the year So I'm working on several different things. Um, I just applied for a A grant to to uh further develop Cucullin It's going to be longer and more music and I'm I'm hoping I'm going to do a A weekend performance in the fall at male street performing Is that like a main council of the arts grant or yeah, it's a main arts commission And are you specifically going for a grant for storytelling or just artistic writing or what? It's firm. It's going to be a multimedia performance because it will have the The telling and it will have the the musical score and uh as a visual artist. So you put together a you've put together a Concept for an actual production that you would and that's what you'll be getting the grant or not getting it on Yeah, and how does that look as far as right main right now? It doesn't seem like main is Loaded with giving artists money Um, well the main arts commission has you know a certain amount of money for Individual artists so it's not just organizations, you know and and so uh The chances aren't terrible. They're not bad. Great. Um, and what about family? Do you have family here? Um, my family are well, I my sisters live in Cape Cod and Vermont My partner Kurt and I live in um in Portland and You know most of the rest of my family or you know, I have a lot of cousins that are still in waterberry So you get down there. Oh you had an interesting story about waterberry. You told me earlier Oh, um about holy land. Yes, holy land. Can you tell tell us a little bit about that? It is your next project Yeah, I'm conceiving. I'm I really want to write a full-length play set With a setting based on holy land usa For those who don't know about which is everybody everybody Anyone who's ever driven through waterberry on 84 Maybe they're on the way to new york or dam barrier with it We'll see that big giant lid up cross. Well, that is at the top of pine hill and that's where holy land is And that was created in Oh 58 by this lawyer and wealthy man. He was an italian-american Um, I think his name was john baptist greco and it was his vision And so they created a little replica Up on the top of this hill of the holy land and they used to call it Bethlehem village as well made of chicken wires plaster and even like Cray paper. Yeah and old old appliances that they and it was awesome. We used to go there My father would take us there every good friday and we go around and take your catholic over catholic Yeah, I was raised catholic and and they there used to be apparently 40 000 people a year used to go there But it's how many go now None it's been closed since the 80s and it's slowly and more and more rapidly decaying and The only people who went up there for years were You know like gangs and drug addicts. So it's a lot of your feeding now on the Little jesus or something. Yeah, and and your play is going to somehow deal with that. What is the Yeah, i'm not sure what i'm going to focus on yet except that when greco died He in his will he left it to this order secretive order of nuns. It's some order in new jersey And i'm told that the nuns there's still some nuns there and a little convent near there And they're very in waterbury in waterbury. Yeah, they're called the the order of the the sisters of Philippi And there's not much known about them except they're based in new jersey And I thought i'd like to know more about those nuns the ones who were living there So he's holy land like they're little like uh summer vacation getaway No, I they live there a year round. Whoever's there is the caretakers. Yeah It would be interesting to visit Yeah, it would be I don't know if you can now Is that your idea and the plays you're going to deal with those nuns? You're thinking of doing it's one thought because it's an interesting thought Yeah, you know provocative maybe offending a couple of people but uh, yeah, maybe but who knows right? And who's going to be afraid of that? Yeah, right? Well, anyway tonight tonight we've been talking to Lynn Cullen Lynn Cullen is a storyteller a playwright a graphic artist and all around bon vivant In our town of portland. Thank you so much. Lynn. I'm looking forward to your next project I'm actually looking forward to going to see you at bullfinis. We're actually I've been You know, I like bullfinis. I haven't been to the storytelling, but I've been to their poetry nights Oh up in their room. Yep. Yeah, I really like that room. It's a great little room I don't drink so they don't love me there, but But anybody is welcome. I know I know and I will be there and so should you That is it for episode three. I'm having a gas doing that. I hope somebody out there is watching Thank you very much and thank you Lynn Cullen. Thank you The belly of the beast is going to be a show about Local artists portland greater portland southern Maine and people who might come in to do work This first episode our guest is not really a guest at all. He's my boss He is the director of the cable station here Which is now called the portland media center the portland media center because I have not memorized that yet And it's it's tom handle tom is an actor He is a director. He runs this cable network As well as other parts of this of the media center And and he's an all-around Fascinating artist. I've worked with tom. He's done three roles for me in my plays I'm a playwright And I'm paul derbis. I don't know if I said that Um, it's tom has played everything from a curmudgeonly old surfer boy to a a beat cop to the head of a department at a university and he's done them all with equal Skills Tom could you say a little something about yourself that I haven't yet? Well, I think you pretty much covered it because otherwise I'm an empty shell, but um, No, I hardly true. I I am executive director here at the portland media center where we train anybody to Volunteer as we have volunteers behind the cameras right now who are you're the real stars? But we do really have a lot of local programming because people come forward and produce shows and then they volunteer for other people's shows And we get to find out what's going on in the community because of all these people interested in coming in So there's a plug right now for People to come into the station learn how to use their equipment do your own tv show like just as paul's doing right now I like to think that I am the anybody he's talking about So but but to know a little bit more about the anybody i'm talking about paul What is your background? You've got an extensive long career in theater. Well, I've been kicking around theater since 1977 I graduated from tufts university with an english drama double major and a minor in french literature Which means that i'm not capable of doing anything at all But I have in fact spent my life being the artistic director of five different theater companies It seems like I can't give a job doesn't it? I've run theaters in i've run two theaters in boston I've run a theater in new york I've run a theater in montreal I've run a theater in ottawa actually six theaters because I read a theater right now and Kenny bunk main It's called storm mornings repertory theater and you'll hear more about it in future episodes And that's where I met you actually that's right. Well, actually you auditioned for us about a year before I cast you And I kept on saying I want to work with this guy and that's true You know, I loved her audition and when I had a role that was right for you. I grabbed you And I've seen tom do many shows that I did not direct and he's equally good even without me And the play that I was in was one that you wrote. So you have an extensive career as a playwright I'm a playwright a director. I'm also a film critic at some point. I might actually Do tiny little film reviews in this as well Since I can Um, it's your show. It's my show Um, and because I got a lot of movies right from I work for a magazine called the arts fuse And I used to be a theater critic but uh and my editor wanted me to do that but I I cannot do that in a town that I'm directing in because I'll be reviewing people that I would be working with So what are some of the highlights of the plays that you've written? Well, uh I wrote a lot. I wrote several plays at at university college Um One of them called the subway hawker played on the radio. It was a radio play And that was in the 70s. That was like 76 But then when I started my own theater and I got a little funding for it Because I had a show that was I did a day in the death of joe egg by peter nickles and it was um Uh, it was incredibly fortuitous in that It was the boston globe the boston herald and the boston, uh, phoenix's best play of the year And don shoey of I think the phoenix at the time called it the perfect three hour egg And listed it as top 10 plays in the decade. What was it about? It's a very dark play. It's a dark comedy It's my favorite english-speaking play the 20th century actually It's about a a couple that has a child That is uh, virtually brain dead and has been since she was a baby And it's a huge straight on the relationship The mother imagines the child will wake up someday And be normal and the father Who loves the child sees that it's this continuous blank space is ruining his wife's life So he takes the child outside in the middle of the night Um, it sits in the car with the child holding her with the idea that the child will freeze to death And the child is not And what I find so fascinating about that play is peter nickles had a child like this That died at the same age that joe egg was in the play So to me the play is really about the fact that his child will never die to him And I also as a vision of the play when I was directing and I'm literally 23 years old I imagined the play I imagined a black canvas A canvas painted black with a very powerful light behind that black canvas And somebody taking a pin and putting a pinhole into the black canvas And the light that comes through that pinhole is stronger than that light ever could be without that canvas And to me that's what the play's about I love the plays peter nickles dated the joe egg And uh that and david mammoths edmund are my two favorite 20th century plays When you when you write a play or you're direct to play like that What is it that you look for in a play? What drives you to really have a passion for telling that story? Well, I can't tell you the answer to that because I that was my that was my Uh thesis at tops doing that play and I ended up doing professionally right afterwards And the only reason I was able to do that play was because I was a theater critic at the time and nucleo-ecletico a theater in the north end in boston was uh Soliciting me because I was a critic and they thought oh, I'll let him do whatever he wants So I'm 22 years old and they said you can do whatever you want So I can do whatever I want. I'll do the play that was my seed thesis And at first I tried to direct the play uh the way I had done it in college And you were what you took direction in college, right? Is that correct? Are you taking directing? I took acting classes in college? I don't know if I took because I've often found and I teach at a university college up in canada And I teach play writing up there actually But the one thing I'll tell them is what I learned Which is how you learn how to direct a show Or even put a show together in college Is not how you do it professionally You know because you have this big bull could you're looking at the book all the time And you're making choices that are not with the actors You're telling the actor how to move And it's like you tell an actor how to move you take away their ability to to to create the character You know, I may say to you. I want you to be in steven's face But I don't place you in steven's face. I want you to find that where that is Because you're creating the character. I'm not well. I've had directors tell me, you know This is what I'm getting at when I tell you this or that But you know those are parameters so that you're more spontaneous for a moment You react as it's happening not because of certain parameters not because you're being told what to do Right and to me that was the first thing I learned Anyway, uh, but why I did that play why it struck me. I mean one of the other plays I was my my field at tops In theater was contemporary British drama from 1957 to 1973 very specific You know from look back in anger to what was going on when I was a student And the other play of my the other play that I loved and it's one that I've never directed and I want to Is uh, I'd play by david rudkin Um, oh, I'm trying to think of the name of it now just went out of my head It's about a couple that's trying to have a baby And they can't and they go through all of the stages Of trying to have a child with the doctors and it's again out dark comedy But joe egg believe it or not is a comedy. It's a dark comedy. It's painful But it's also filled with like laughs that you that you Don't want to do but he makes you do it And I always thought that the challenge in theater. I mean I was very fortunate to have been raised in this kind of milieu because what I learned in it is that Uh, you don't do plays that are cancers bad and what I mean by that is if everybody agrees to the point of view of the play You haven't learned anything Much more interesting to see the point of view of somebody you disagree with than somebody you agree with and if if that if the multitude of people that go to theater all have basically the same Landscape then break it. You know what I mean break that challenge them challenge them exactly. That's what theater should be You know, that's where it's separate. That's where it's different than television So that's when you said you were knocking around theater since the 70s sort of is When did you get the bug actually in your life? Was it that time or was it as a child or I don't know about the bug. It's a very funny thing you asked that because I mean I was an English major first because I was a published poet And I read with ellen ginsburg and laurice frill and getty with a group called stone soup poetry in boston, which was quite famous Jack powers ran that and he's like one of my Major mentors and I went to tufts because tenice lever tuft up there Um, uh, and actually uh, and I was like you have to you had to get into her class You have to give your material and she's got to accept you and she accepted me And that's one of the things that I loved about going to tufts Um, but while I was there, I mean I I also took Uh pulp fiction from david slavitt who was published under the name of henry sutton He wrote the exhibitionist and the voyeur and all these cheap novels But he's also a famous poet is david slavitt And jonathan is strong who won the oh henry award for tyke I studied with him and then my probably my major the reason i'm in theater probably Is twofold one is that one along so who was teaching creative writing and Was the editor of the boston review? Said to me, uh, if you really want your people to hear your words write plays and what he said to me was Plenty of bad plays get produced plenty of them somebody's going to do your play if you're writing it's any good at all You write a novel One in a thousand that you'll get it published if you get it published One in 20 will actually not be remaindered within two months You know you'll be able to buy your novel at the strand in new york without a cover You know in a month and I listened to him. I said that makes sense. So I started writing plays So I didn't come out of college thinking I was going to be a director I only came out of college thinking I was going to be a writer And then I actually You know I directed joe again I did really well and I only directed it because the artistic director wanted the publicity of me of a of a theater critic doing it And it did well enough So I had a backer and opened up my own theater and I'd done like two shows You know I had no idea but I was watching 22 23 And I thought well, what the heck you know what I mean? Who cares if you go bankrupt? Who cares if you run this thing in the ground? I'm 22 years old There you can do whatever you want. No, I don't own anything. I have no money. I don't own anything I can I can you know walk away from it But you started off as a storyteller because you weren't just in writing. Yeah, what drove you to destroy? What's there about storytelling that you have a passion about? Well, if you ask if you ask why am I writer? Is that you're asking or story? I think I think that's what the common I'm not sure what I'll tell you why I'm a writer I'm a writer because my imagination has never matured When you were a kid you used to play games, right? You'd play like, you know cops and robbers or whatever, right? And you'd imagine this stuff and I always think that actors are the same You know, it's like some you know the rest of the people Put those in boxes and put them in their closet You know me I used to take my baseball cards because I'm a big baseball card collector and jack craiglick The fifth a fifth picture for the Indians in my little world when the saw young every year because I was creating a completely fictitious scenes And I think that that is the mind of a writer You know, you know, you sit with tom for yet you I come out of this This episode and I start driving home when I think You know, tom said something really interesting and by tomorrow I'm thinking This is the play that I'm going to write that tom gave me and it's got nothing to do with really reality But it has to do with something that you kind of pricked in my mind Well, now I met you through a storm warnings theater company In kennep bunk and you're thinking of moving that eventually to the portland area You're very involved in the portland area How do you see the portland theater scene the portland arts scene? And why are you doing the show to focus on that? That is an interesting question Which I think tom knows the answer to I I've been in Maine for five years and I've come from New York, Boston, Montreal and Ottawa That's where I where I've been living For the for all my adult life And I found it when I first came to Maine It didn't feel like there is a Cohesiveness in this community and I'm beginning to feel more and more of that now But you know, I didn't yeah, I'm actually looking forward to having Michael tour of crow bait on because Michael tour Is the glue in this town? He brings everybody together once a month And I wanted to do this show twofold. I wanted to Make the theater commuter Expose the theater community to more of an inclusive environment And I don't think That enough people and I don't know if they're gonna be Watching this or not, but I don't think enough people go to theater here So if this catches, you know their Imagination and it makes them want to see a show that tom's in or that anita's doing as at At the portland stage or go here These are our first three guests or go or go here. Lynn cullen do her storytelling Bulfinis if somebody does goes to one of those that wasn't going to go before Then that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking to promote that Yeah, I think that's an interesting point that you said how cohesive or The theater companies because I Moved to this area five years ago, even though I've been working in portland for over 20 years And I wasn't really involved in the theater scene here I was involved in the theater scene up in the coast in damerscotta and newcastle And so it's taken me a little while to kind of discover the theater scene here But crow bait was one of the first things that I discovered which was lots of fun It was very much like just an evening of entertainment when they were when I went they were doing it at the The that church in the in the east end right you're talking about at uh Yes, what's the name of that male male street arts? That's right And and and and people were just really loud and vocal in the audience and just I missed that actually I missed the male for that. Yeah, they're very unruly and which was great because it gave them not real seats, right? Yeah, well moved around Yeah, and and there was beer and it just felt like a bar where there was theater And you get the script in your hand and you're like nervous because you have to do it in two minutes And you know, you don't know what you're doing. It was a party. Well, actually the part that I got I don't think I had any lines at all But it was another guy had most of the lines He was doing a lecture on how different guys scratch their balls And I had to be the one demonstrating each one and I couldn't read it fast enough So I just had to listen to him and do it the way I was doing it And evidently whenever you scratch your balls people are going to laugh if you're non-stage So I learned that it was it was it was fine or whatever Anything goes and since then a friend of mine who's doing camera right now Robert has written a couple of things that have been done at crow bait and it's just a great kind of experimental Laboratory that may not be something that you actually saw going into that But I'll tell you this about tom and and I mean this Tom has an innate sense of comedy you do You know and in my stuff that can be subtle and you still know how to bring that subtle comedy through He did an excellent job playing this Hawaiian beach bum. That's 60. He was amazing You know, and I don't even think that tom really even knew what he was doing Yeah, well, I mean, I think when I feel good about doing something. I don't know what I'm doing I just get lost in it. I think most actors do. I think most actors lose themselves Won't know what they did. You're right. Yeah, in fact often a good actor thinks Oh, I didn't do as good a job this time. He did last time because last time I knew I was doing well And this time I don't know what I'm doing at all and I said, that's why you're good this time. Yeah, right, right Yeah, I think when it's fun. It just feels right. There was a flow and you really can't remember yourself anymore Yeah, and then you remember back at the part and you remember. Oh, yeah, that's right. It happened It's like you come from another world like you're remembering a dream that you're right But I I it but I don't think that crow baits the only thing It's one of the things because you could be anybody and walk in there and have your script done Or be an actor in it, but also like I found what was amazing is that I don't think was the first time that happened That that's a Portland stage with the main theater collective did these auditions for all these different theater companies back in December That's what I'm saying though. It's grown. It's grown so much. In fact You will see in episode two that we talk about that It's absolutely right. In fact, Portland stage has really taken, you know, the mantle of being the the Kind of a conduit for this in a way that five years ago. You weren't seen as clearly as you are now Yeah, there's there and there's I think there's lots and lots of opportunities The main theater collective is another one because you just join its website and then I got these emails It's a facebook page, but I don't go where facebook a lot I just it just I just get an email every time There's any kind of notice and so I found out about these audition notices And even with that that thing that was done in December since then I've been offered at least seven different parts And I've been able to take I've seen them twice then so but but it's it's amazing because in another place You go in and you you go to a new place and you have to audition for this one You have audition for that one. You hope people notice you, you know But here everybody's kind of knows quickly gets to know me tell you this I know that in that uh in that audition that you talked about I believe that only two of our actors you and carolyn were at that audition I don't believe anybody else from our company was their company actors. I could be wrong But I know that both of you have gotten multiple roles since then. Yeah, you know that's a big help Yeah, it's a huge thing you know part of it is because People like me and I think that uh anidas told me that I think there were 30 different artistic directors there People like me don't know everybody You know because there isn't uh, you know when you call up an audition In town often you'll get 15 people But when you went to this you got to see 100 people You know, so you'll see so many people that you didn't even know we're here And you end up, you know casting them I I just think that uh just from my little observation and being involved in the last five years and Really not that involved except in the last three maybe that there's a really vibrant theater community here all of a sudden Do you get the feeling that it's always been that way? Is that something I'll tell you this I feel very much Like it has grown and connected You know way that five years ago I didn't and it could be that I was new But that I didn't feel You know, and I've been new to a lot of towns I was new in auto at 20 years ago and I was new to monterello in 96 You know and I was new to new york and 80 but but here it didn't feel like You know totally connected. Oh really and now it does now it has a feeling I feel like, you know Like we'll share actors and we'll share the we'll share audiences and and then the amount of plays that are being done I'm not I don't have a perception but it seems there's a lot of things going on And and even five years ago a lot of theater was shakespeare Now a lot of that theater is newer work or Original main stuff a lot of stuff that you weren't seen a lot of five years ago And and that's another thing that you're making me think of snow lion theater does these play laps Where I think you I was in one. You just recently have one of my plays. Dave's last name That's a great. That's a great thing to have a theater company work on your piece to do a reading But to hear it and how what was that like? I mean how useful was that for you? It's always useful to have your play read into your feedback You know, I mean, you know, I I've actually worked with some well-known playwrights And one of the things that they all say in unison is a play is never finished You know, and I think that a good playwright will absorb that You know just because you wrote a play 10 years ago and when you were talking about The fact that your pieces were so old, you know the stuff that you did in college I don't know if that was on this or that was an hour. Okay, but we were talking Sorry, but we were talking about the fact that tom made these films in Columbia in Columbia And and if they had been stage work and he says well, they are so old who would you know Who cares about them now all I would myself and I think if they were a play you'd be tweaking them Till the day you die. Yeah, right, you know, and I love that. I mean I tweak my place, you know It's the same thing with acting really. I mean when you when you have a part It just keeps on growing and growing and growing and one of the the sad things I think about You know community theaters usually it's two weekends and then that's it maybe three if you're lucky And just as you're getting into the second weekend, you're hitting your stride You're finding things in it You're you're connecting with the audience and learning things from what they're how they're responding and then it's over And and I'm sure that's not in fact what the theaters want It's it's what the audience right now and part of the reason I'm actually doing this is I'm hoping that This will be enough of an interest to you and I mean I'll do anything I'll you know, I'll drop my pants if you're gonna sit and watch this Okay, because I want you to see this and I want you to end up coming out to theater Because if you come out to theater, we'll do three weeks. We'll do four weeks You know, we'll do what the audience will bear. In fact art theater just went to three weeks You know, so we're doing three weeks, you know, three shows a week to three weeks Which still is not enough, but it's a start. Yeah, I mean I think that sometimes in professional theaters though At least in new york, don't they take it out outside of town before they have their grand opening well Broadway and some off Broadway does that Yeah, they do a tour this and they're changing the script right and then working on it. Yeah It seems like there's a there's always always something to do in theater What you just said about a play versus a novel I've never thought about that before that that there's there's always a chance to get it performed And and in in a book, you know, it's it's people people don't bother to read actually If you get it published, you know, if you get it published and when you do a film, it's set in stone You don't go back to it But it was it was the most significant single thing Any teacher or tufts ever told me and it's why I ended up going into theater as well Yeah, because I wanted to be a writer and if Being a writer of plays I don't give a darn if it's I'm writing plays Or or short stories or novels or poetry I want I mean if you're a writer you want people to hear what you have to say Yeah In theater get does that for you and and the ability to have it done right away is is just at least here A friend of mine Robert again, he's standing there. He's texting right now But he should be on doing the camera But he and I wrote this play that was uh, we decided to do it as an improv play with, you know Outlining it and and we wanted to see what it would be like to have an improv troupe do it And right here in in Media center, we have playback theater performing every You did exchange street. You filmed exchange street here. We did that here But this this the playback theater is an improv company that performs here twice a month and many of them came forward and Volunteered to do our play as an improv piece here. We videotaped it get to watch it now We're going to meet again and and and you know play with it and change it a little maybe write actual opportunity But it's it's great. I mean it's actually something that never thought I would do It's almost like never neverland because you have this this talent A very concentrated group of people that are talented are willing to work with each other and experiment and uh, that's that kind of freedom really Promotes creativity if you don't have that freedom. It's absolutely true and Being an artist Is different than not being an artist in one specific way. I think If you're a banker, if you're a real estate person, if you're, um, Uh, you know working the stock exchange Every year you wish to progress. You wish to go up a ladder There's no such thing as a ladder as a creator. You're always creating something last year's project may actually be The the the epitome of your art Not next year It's not like every piece you do is going to be better than the piece you did before So it's not like a ladder you're crossing. I explain it as it's like Stones in a pond You know, you're walking from one stone to another and sometimes just slipping and filling the pond Yeah, that's for sure and other times you find that it is the most exhilarating stone you could be on But you still go to the next stone, right? It's not you're not looking for every show To be better than the show before you're looking for every show to be creative And you're looking to take chances And sometimes those chances work and sometimes they don't but that's what makes you an artist and and what you learn from each stone And everywhere you it's a different story It's a different message and you get to experience it in a different way So you're always learning something the way that you described that one play that you did about the the handicap child This point of light in the canvas that goes through that sounds that seems like the almost the perfect description of a perfect play Because it's it's that's what you're looking for is that one shred of light that you know Hits you and then illuminates things for you as you've never seen them before and peter nichols wrote this In the wake of his own child dying And you have to look at that and think it's why it's virtually perfect You should read that play and i'm a film critic too and i'll tell you this perfection is rare I think there's only been one perfect film ever made and it has one word said in it And it's the red balloon. Oh, you know, I look at the red balloon and it's just every frame is perfect Anyway, I guess that's all we have time for You know tom is not getting me behind scenes from now on probably Although I may drag him on sometimes Tom is a great pal in a great interview Okay, and when somebody doesn't show up in the future, I'm going to bring him up again He's got to talk about his time at the musky setter Okay, and thank you very much and tune in next week for Anita Stewart from the portland stage company Thanks and see you next week