 Welcome to JSA TV and JSA Podcast, the newsroom for telecom and data center professionals. I'm Lauren Oland and on behalf of JSA, thank you for tuning in to our JSA virtual roundtable. It's called Taking the Edge Across the Pacific, US, Asia and Cloud Opportunities. We do have a few housekeeping items before we begin. Our first 100 registrants for today's roundtable have now received lunch delivered right to your door or a gift card, so please enjoy. Now, if you weren't one of our first, hopefully you'll be on it next time. Make sure you register early for our monthly roundtables at jsa.net. We do want to hear from you and make this roundtable experience as interactive as possible for you. So please add any questions that you have into the chat for our panelists to answer. Also, stick around after our roundtable is over today, you can immediately join virtual networking tables for a unique opportunity to talk face to face with other attendees and speakers. All you have to do is join a table in the lounge area and let the networking begin. Okay, let's get started. To introduce our speakers and to moderate the discussion, please welcome Robert Powell, editor at Telecom Ramblings. Rob, so great to see you and we appreciate you being here. Thank you for the invitation and it's great to be here. So I'm Rob Powell, I'm the editor at Telecom Ramblings. I've run into probably many of you over the years. Data processing at the edge enabled by the cloud is critical to supporting AI driven technologies that are fueling our modern digital world. While North America was an early adopter of edge technology, the focus is now increased in other parts of the world, including the fast growing areas in Asia. The markets of Asia, however, can be a different environment to work in and because of that the development of the edge and the cloud won't necessarily follow the same path. With us today, we have three panelists to help us understand more about the development of the cloud edge in Asia. Let's have each of them introduce themselves briefly and we'll get on to the questions. First we have Sujit Panda of BDX, Sujit. Hey, thanks Robert and thank you everybody for taking the time to join in. I'm Sujit Panda. I'm from BDX, Big Data Exchange. I'm the Chief Technology Officer and I'm responsible for building out a technology roadmap to suit the broader platform strategy that we have and edge obviously is one of the key things that is driving innovation as well as growth in the dataset market. Thanks, Sujit. We have Jack Dinn of CT Americans. Jack. Thank you, Robert. This is Jack Dinn, Assistant Director of Solutions at China Telecom Americas, CTA, where I oversee solution engineer and product teams. CTA is the largest subsidiary of China Telecom Corporation. We leverage our global resources to provide end-to-end IT and network solutions to our multinational end users. We are transitioning to the next generation software defined network with managed cloud and edge data center services. So looking forward for the discussion today. Thank you. Thanks, Jack. And we have Wade from Zemlair. Excuse me, Wade from Zemlair. Wade. Thanks, Robert. So as mentioned, I'm Wade from Zemlair. I am the Senior Director of our Partnership on Alliances. It's a lot of fun meeting and talking to people, really high level on Zemlair. We have about 250 nodes across the globe right now, probably 300 by the end of this year and about 25 targets of capacity that shift double by the end of this year as well. So one of our main goals is to be able to reach 85% of the world's population in 25 milliseconds or less. So as we build out that network and that cloud footprint, it's been a really interesting ride. And I'm going to be very happy to kind of share with you guys some of the lessons that we've learned and hopefully we'll be able to help some people. Great, thanks. So first question, defining the edge of course, it's always been a rather slippery concept. What should we think of as the edge in the markets of Asia and how might that differ from what we're thinking of it in North America or Europe? Sujit. So when I talk about the edge, I kind of want to segue into not so much about the regions but what's the kind of use case that you're trying to build. So the hyperscalar edge is a different power definition and a different latency definition. The network edge, again with the slicing and dicing of the network and the 5G coming in, is again a different kind of edge that we're talking about. And irrespective of which region that you're in, with the 5G coming up and up in front and in most of the regions in Asia, I don't see any challenges on the 5G side as well as definitions between North America or for that matter as she has concerned. The big difference that we see in the definitions of edge is the enterprise edge, whether if the North American definitions versus the Asian definitions, there's a lot of changes that are evident in the way this is being defined. And the hyperscalar side, again, the hyperscalars are driving standardization. So when I look at the edge that, for example, if I look at the AWS Wave and Zones, whether you're in North America or you're kind of building it in APAC, you kind of follow the same kind of standards. So I think the key differentiation that we will continue seeing for some time, this is the enterprise side and not so much on the hyperscalar or for that matter, the network edge. Great. Jack, how do you guys see the edge? From a service provider's perspective, the edge is essentially, we think it's wherever the end user is. More than 50% of the world's internet users today are in Asia. The majority of the population use mobile smartphones on which applications like a short video, mobile online gaming require higher speed and a lower latency mobile network capability. So this means our network needs to be able to extend all the way to edge data centers, to edge devices. So in Asia, we are providing local internet, SD-WAN connectivity and the local data center services to empower our clients, IT infrastructure and business coverage to the edge. Thank you. Wayne, how do you guys view the edge? No, it's a great question. I've been to a couple of edge conferences and this is always the first question that they ask because it's so different for whoever you're talking with. In our case, I just focus on ours. We focus on a data center edge. I mentioned earlier, we wanna reach about 85% of population in 25 milliseconds or less. The only way to do that is by separating stuff geographically, meaning similar to what Jack mentioned, we will put data centers compute and then network. As close to the end users as possible, these tend to be geographic cities where we see a lot of iBall networks and everything else like that, right? What you'll hear frequently from a lot of our clients and people they're trying to expand is, how do I deliver better into a particular country? And then within that country, you segment that into the cities and you can identify where the majority of the traffic in the iBalls are. And then you build up the network around that to make sure that we can reach those customers. So what is involved in actually building out this engine infrastructure in Asian markets? What are the essential building blocks that we're trying to put together in these parts of the world? So, Jay. So, when we look at the edge, essentially, depending on what's the kind of use case that you're looking at, whether we're kind of looking at an AWS or a hyperscaler as a customer, or for that matter, if you're building it for a telco as a 5G core, MEC point, that is what we define what are the building blocks, but essentially you would need the edge has a very different mechanism in terms of how you look at it from a design perspective from the core data center because you're not looking at, building up a 10 megawatt or 20 megawatt facility, you kind of the power density or the power that you're trying to build out an edge for is much less, right? So if the hyperscaler edge could be something like or a hyperscaler pop edge could be something like one megawatt, right? While, if you're building it for the network edge side, it could go as well as 150 kilowatts. So that's a few rack, right? It's a micro edge, right? And end of it, right? When you look at, if you look at a large city and you kind of trying to build an X number of edges out there, let's say you're building, trying to build a hundred edge nodes out there and trying to take that as a cloud front content delivery, that design would specifically look at how do you massify the monitoring and management of these edges in a very much automated manner, right? And all of this has to be coming out at the best in terms of sustainability and in terms of how you look at the power density and the power storage, right? So the building blocks that I see from micro edge piece are the way you look at the monitoring system and the way you look at the power and cooling management, which is very different from the core, right? And what we have looked at is, we have innovated to build our own patented monitoring system, right? Which writes very well on the sustainability side. We call it as 360 view, right? And it is basically giving you a fully automated containerized data center at the edge which could go with particular watts, right up to one megawatt, right? And the other piece of this is about how do you build out energy storage systems and how do you build renewable into the energy storage systems? So that's one fully containerized module that we've built which can go at a particular location and it shipped pre-built. So this piece of actually shipping out a pre-built data center to a particular site is what we see is a measure of success that we see in Asia in terms of taking something to the market in a very quick manner. Interesting. Jack, how do you guys view for the edge from a service provider perspective? How do you view the building blocks? Okay, we see the industries across Asia Pacific region accelerating their drive towards more digitized customer experiences. So this actually prompts infrastructure to shift from centralized data center or cloud locations to include those distributed local edge sites and moving those data closer to the end user to reduce latency. Therefore edge computing is expected to play a key role in improving such performance for better customer experience. So I would say in central building blocks could include the wide spread coverage of 5G networks and edge data centers, edge cloud and the related network such as SD-WAN connections. These should be kind of a key element so we are looking at. Great. Lee? Yeah, I mean from our perspective we really wanna look at the as a solution to the clients that wanna go to the edge, right? Are they looking for performance? Is it an issue of redundancy? In a lot of cases what they mentioned about how big that edge is on our side they may be a little bit smaller because they may have core summer and then they want to deploy this into Asia. And it's a very fragmented market not just the network but the regulations, the language, everything else is like that. So when our customers want to go into that or we look at the building blocks for this the compute is essential, the local network, right? Working with the local carriers to deliver with a lower latency keeping things inside of that country becomes really important. In a lot of these cases are they looking to serve static content where they can use a CDN as a great option to do that, right? And just deliver that from the edge there or is it more dynamic stuff which has to go back to a core database or somewhere else in that case how do you optimize that internal latency within the networks? And then the second piece is like to that local market, right? How do we optimize that and make sure that the apps the workloads, whatever that ends up being, right? How do we make sure that it works as they expect to anywhere else in the world? Because as you guys mentioned, US, Europe, you know, the market's aren't as fragmented. It's very mature. They can do large deployments. They have a lot of the eyeball networks and things are kind of easy. But once you go into Asia it's a completely different ball game. Great. All right. What kind of pitfalls do you see like multinationals that run into when they try to apply the same kind of strategies that they're doing in the US and Europe when they apply that in Asia? What do they run into? What should they be looking for to try to do this right, right? When they try to deploy edge cloud, edge cloud, et cetera solutions. Sujit? I think one of the key things is how you, you know, from an infrastructure perspective how you look at power, right? And the reliability of power, right? And that's a wide variance when you look at in North American market, for example, getting reliable power at most of the sites are very easy. That's not the case in most parts of Asia. The other piece that we look at is how you look at the net for peace because every edge data center needs to have a back in connectivity. And what's the kind of technologies that you look at for getting that connectivity? Fiberation in a lot of locations in Asia is still not up to the same level as that you see in North America. So that's another piece where we've seen that how do you kind of give out the uptime from the network perspective? That's of a concern. The third piece that you're looking at on as a big challenge is how do you look at the cooling piece, right? And what's the kind of, when we look at the edge side, we're trying to be as sustainable as possible. So what's the kind of cooling technologies that you can use with respect to the regulations that you have within each of these Asian regions because of the diversity that you have there? It's a little bit of a challenge that we see in terms of what kind of refrigerants that you're using and how you kind of look at driving a PUE which is to the level that we do it in the core which is around 1.1, 1.2. So those are the key things that we look at from an infrastructure perspective and we look at an HDC versus something that we see in North America. Jack, what do you guys see the multinational is running into out there? Yeah, we noticed that Asian countries have different regulation policies than North America and Europe due to different political systems, local culture and the social environment. So multinational companies should practice caution when setting up their infrastructure in Asia, especially we know in China, the government might adopt a new data privacy and security laws anytime, and these companies have to meet such local regulations to build up their local ecosystems. So you certainly don't, those companies certainly don't want to get in predicament of having to redesign their network or infrastructure. So there are also geographic challenges in Asia. Some Western multinational companies are unprepared and kind of overwhelmed by the big gap in market maturity between more developed markets like Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, and the less developed ones like Indonesia, Vietnam and the Philippines. So therefore, having the right strategy to focus on and picking the right service provider very critical. Please? Yeah, thanks, Robert. I think like Sujit and Jack have taken like a big portion of it that they said a lot of good things. So let me go a little bit high level on this one. Geography is definitely a big one that the MNCs kind of run into. A lot of them have one strategy that they want to kind of deploy, they said globally, right? In this case, like to Sujit's point, they have maybe high density cabs or they have a particular network topology that they try to replicate across the world that may not work in a lot of these markets because you're talking about low density cabs instead of like 20 or 10, 15 kilowatts. Maybe you can only do two kilowatts. That's pretty common. Two to six is fairly common. So that's one part of it. The other thing is when you really look at the geography, there's a fallacy. I've been doing business in Asia for a really long time and there's always a fallacy that they go, oh, Asia, like US, it's a US market, it's Asia market, it's EU, but it encompasses a lot of different pieces. There's different regulations, it's a different country, they have different language, they have a different currency. All of this comes into effect. So if you look at the major markets, you have Hong Kong, you have Singapore and Tokyo. Those are the three major ones where you see the high-pressure others deploy out and those are the easy ones to get into. And then you have like Korea, which is a little bit homogenous, but it's a very large and upcoming market. Then you have like Taiwan, which is small. And then you have Southeast Asia, you have India, right? All of these are very different and they all require slightly different strategies in terms of who you're trying to reach, who are the best network that are there. And each one of these are unique. You don't have, like in the US and you have a very large data center player that covers every single one of these locations. You don't have a very large carrier that can deliver everything everywhere equally well. So when you go into that, like Jack had mentioned, you really wanna look at the country that you're going into and understand. What kind of customer base you're going after? Where does it make sense to deploy? If you need redundancy, what's the next best city to serve outside of? Is there international connectivity good? If it's not, then you have to account for that, right? And build a strategy so that you can get the traffic and the data in and out to some of your core because we're talking about the edge deployment. So not trying to do everything there. So those are just a few of the small things that you might say. And then obviously there's more that happens where you try to deploy there. Can you own the gear there? Do you have to like just lease it from somebody, right? Can you run the network there? Like, are there any other regulatory issues about serving content? China is a great example. They have a lot of regulations about how you can serve the content inside of the country, like Port 80 and Fort Fort are close if you don't have an ICP. That's just one country. So imagine this when you spread across Asia and you have like country, different countries. Everyone is unique. Certainly is. What are the actual newer technologies or services like SDY, et cetera, these things will help, will be driving expansion at the edge or important to the expansion of the edge in Asian markets over the next year or two. Is it the same mix of demands involved that we see in North America and Europe or is it slightly different subject? I think I see that to be slightly different in Asia. 5G is picking up, but yeah, the 5G use cases, while I see gaming and AR, VR use cases to be there in Asia too, but autonomous cars are still, or for that matter, the game zoning pieces are still not there in Asia. The other pieces in terms of, that we see in the Asian market in terms of the way we are delivering video and immersive video using the edge as the delivery location and interactive video, that's catching up. Interactive video is a big piece in Asia that we see actually going beyond North America in terms of the capacity and in terms of the amount of engagement that you're seeing there. The piece about network slicing of being a big use case in 5G, we're still seeing 5G is not as prevalent in Asia from a homogeneity perspective within the top five or seven markets that you would want to look at. So we still see that on that perspective, they're going for very defined markets. So if you look at a market like India or for that matter, even if you look at a market like Vietnam, the strategy for 5G proliferation is very different. So we see that that use cases also does not mimic the North American market. Great, Jeff? Yeah, Suji mentioned about some consumer application and services like AR, VR, these actually including other mobile gaming, these continues to drive our 5G MEC deployment. And there are other things like for business and the IoT industry applications, we have so many smart technologies, smart solutions that also drive the deployment of our 5G MEC and other vertical edge cloud platforms in Asia. Like a smart global supply chain, smart telematics and remote healthcare, teledoc, these development are all related to IoT industry. And there are also one thing you need to mention that in China, China's culture of surveillance is also a significant driver for edge computing. And this could set the direction for the technology evolution. You know, in China, they already have, use a lot of cameras at the edge for their surveillance state. Those cameras need to be powered by AI and that AI needs to be powered by edge processing. The other thing is, you know, IT departments of multinational companies, they are tasked with moving existing applications to secure accessible locations. To support such kind of operational and networking shifts, they need a rapid cloud adoption and technologies like SD-WAN will be increasingly utilized to help to deliver such kind of necessary application, optimization and security. Great, Wei. Yeah, I think on our side, one thing that we have seen within Asia is a lot of the countries have skipped, you know, the traditional landline, right? They've moved into like a mobile environment. Also with the pandemic, that hasn't been raised this time, but I'm sure people talk about all the time, right? With the global pandemic, you see a huge shift. A lot of infrastructure that was on premise within the offices and everything have shifted into like the data center space because they just have a lot more scalability. They're building these regional pops. You know, Jack mentioned SD-WAN. So when you have a bunch of users that are all working from home, right? They need to dial into something. Those provide a more stable environment. They provide a better on-ramp into the clouds, usually they're cloud-adjacent, and then that leads into the next piece, you know? We're seeing a lot of people moving into a hybrid and multi-cloud environment in order to support these workloads, right? And then how do they bring their core from the edge? How do you connect it? Do you direct connect into these clouds? Do you just use regular IP transit between the regions? Like how do you kind of manage that environment? So we see a big move towards containers as well because that gives you sometimes a single pane of glass, right? And the ability to migrate between fair metal from one provider, AWS and even Google, however you guys want to be able to set that up. So people are looking at ways to optimize their infrastructure to support the increasing demands, whether it's because the performance isn't good for their internal use cases or if their customers are demanding for their turnarounds in terms of how the application is going to process. There's a lot of different strategies in order to do this and it kind of begins with being able to monitor and understand a lot of the issues that pop up, right? So that's the one that Jack brought up is a great example. We work with a couple of providers where they have these edge devices that go into the customer side. But usually that relies on regular IP transit, the regular internet to connect to something. The problem in a lot of Asian markets is between these countries, the international routes are the ones that suck. So you could have hundreds of milliseconds of latency just using the SDY in itself isn't gonna solve the problem. You need to leverage some kind of back home technology or mid-mile that's gonna bypass the congestion that is going to mitigate all of the multi-hops and the routes that aren't at your control, right? Once you can do that, you can cut the latency easily in half in a lot of cases. So those are a lot of the technologies that we've seen. Right. So at what stage do you think we're at in all of this? So where are we in the deployment of Edge Cloud infrastructure and solutions capable of properly serving customers across Asia? And how can we get to where we need to be? Sujit? I think, you know, from PTX perspective, because we are a cloud platform, we are a data center platform focused only at the Asia piece. So our focus is there are two pieces to this. One is sustainability, right? And what we're trying to look at is, how do we take whatever we build on the core to the Edge? And that is where automation is the biggest piece that we see can deliver Edge at a cost point, which is very attractive, right? So that's what we have focused in building, you know, our own technology, right? Where we try to get a single pane across all the edges, wherever, whichever location that you wanna get into within Southeast Asia or the large duration geography. The other piece is, you know, how do you kind of look at the SLA management on the Edge side? And especially when you're looking at deploying a few hundred sites in a particular city, right? And you're trying to look at, you know, not having any of these sites manned, right? And all of the power side of the piece, you're trying to manage monitor and, you know, do the change management piece in an automated manner, right? How do you kind of deliver the kind of, you know, SLA is that the hyperscalers are looking at, or for that matter, you know, a very, very critical application, for example, of the medical side to look at. So these are the two pieces that we're trying to bring together, sustainable and automated. These, this is what we believe can drive the pace of adoption of Edge in Asia. Jack, what do we got out there? Yeah, I think this is a very challenging question. Actually, each country is different in development stage. So generalizing may be kind of difficult. As one of the major service providers in China, we are developing 5G MEC Edge Cloud capabilities in full swing. And already have many successful commercial use cases for a variety of businesses and industries. So that's how we see the stage. Thank you. Wade? Yeah, this is a great question. I think that really speaks to what SLA does, right? This is definitely a gap that we have seen, the ability to bring the Edge to all of these markets, especially in Asia. We've already talked a lot about how difficult these are and how fragmented that market is. I can with pretty good confidence, almost 100% confidence say that at the very minimum, we're the number two global Edge Cloud company. I challenge someone to figure out who number one is. But we have a very large footprint in terms of the locations that we're able to deploy these Edge Clouds for the customers and vertically integrate that. It's been the problem that we try to solve for a lot of companies. How do you enter into these markets? How do you deploy your Edge infrastructure? Is there somebody that can aggregate this across the multiple countries in Asia and give you that singular experience and one single point of contact, right? Can they also share what kind of problems you're going to run into as you go into these markets? And even more fun, in a lot of cases, we'll do POCs for the clients. We have the network in the compute and everything ready. You can get hard data and say, well, if I use you guys or if I deploy into this market, how much of an improvement am I going to see there compared to, oh, maybe we don't know for sure. We've got to deploy there first, and then we can find out. So that's what really drives our growth and why I mentioned earlier. We're trying to grow to 300 sites. We're adding 50 sites and doubling our network capacity. This is the reason because there's not one large player that is able to buy this all over the place. So I think we're probably the closest to that right now. Right. As a follow-up, what markets are you Jack mentioned that varies a lot based on the market? What markets are you actually seeing a lot of investment in Edge infrastructure and Edge Cloud infrastructure in Asia right now? Where's the investment going? Where's the activity? Where's the demand right now? So, Jit? I think we're seeing very good traction in the markets that we operate in. We are one of the better placed players in Singapore. We've done some good work in Malaysia. We are also seeing traction in Indonesia in a big way. In fact, we're going to be betting big on Indonesia over the next six to 18 months. We also see China as a very important market for us. We have invested heavily in China. We see India coming up with 5G being the options happening over the next two months or so. We will see that that will play catch-up market. And Taiwan obviously is another place where we see that there is going to be good amount of growth there. So we're going in Taiwan also. So those are the key markets for us. But yes, I'm not looking, I'm not saying that there are not other markets, but these are priority markets for us. And what we believe is, if I look at the eyeball gravity in the markets that I spoke about, that's around 75 to 80% of the total eyeball gravity in AIPAC. So that's for us as the priority market. Jack, what markets do you see people investing in? And what are you guys investing in right now? Yeah, for us, the major markets, we're targeting China, Singapore, Japan, Australia. Because we see that there are huge development and the money goes to these markets. In many, in all these countries, the government investment in digital infrastructure have been accelerated in recent years. So this is a huge for us service providers. And another example for our parent company, they have developed extensive cloud network connectivity infrastructure to these countries and invested a lot of money in cloud SD1 platform development to benefit our customers and facilitate their own digital transformation. And Wade, where do you see the feet on the ground? Yeah, I think they mentioned a couple of good markets, right? When we started this, India was a big, sorry, China was a big one. We had probably like 40 pops there. India was the next big one that we're looking at. We have over 20 pops there. Indonesia, we've actually worked very closely with the telecom Indonesia, though that's been a very interesting market that a lot of people are going into. But where we are looking like further ahead because we are trying to get into more of these emerging markets as we said to like our global edge clouds. So South America is a big one that we're looking at, going to Chile, Colombia, Peru. These are some areas that we see a lot of growth in Eastern Europe is another one. We're seeing quite a bit of growth. Africa supposed to be very quick up and coming with a lot of new eyeballs that are going out there. And then we also see some traffic going into the Middle East, you know, like, those are all the areas where we're seeing increase. And because we've already had that footprint in like China and Indonesia, we're really looking at expanding to those markets and helping people access them. I'm looking at the questions from the audience. We have one from from our AT&T. How do you see hyperscalers and CSPs working in MEC? Do CSPs provide edge access with hyperscalers bringing apps to the edge? So anybody have any thoughts on that? I'm not going to put everybody on the spot. Sujit? I think that's a very good question. I think there is the communication service providers and the hyperscalers are kind of collaborating in a big way there where, you know, basically the hyperscalers are bringing their, you know, compute the compute in a box kind of thing for the RAN infrastructure on the 5G site. And, you know, what they get is, you know, the site is still being managed by and maintained from a licensing perspective and from the local conditions perspective by the CSP, while the compute node is brought by the hyperscaler and not just the compute, but also the RAN application and the environment for the 5Gs being contributed by the hyperscaler. So that's a very interesting piece that we see not just in North America. We've seen that, you know, within AT&T, I think you've seen that panning out with Microsoft as well. You've seen some good traction, some work that AT&T is also doing with Amazon. You see Verizon also working with a bunch of hyperscalers and the same way, we've seen Google doing a lot of good work in some of the larger geographies. We've seen proof of concepts being done in Indonesia. We've seen proof of concepts being spoken about in Singapore. There is, you know, I was participating in, I'm not be able to name the hyperscaler because there is an India that we've signed, but it's a good work that we're doing in Vietnam. So I see that this is already panned out and I see that the way to massify the 5G edge is with the, you know, great partnership between the hyperscalers and the CSP. Yeah, any thoughts on how we see hyperscalers and CSPs working in MEC? I don't have any comments on that. Okay, wait, any thoughts? Yeah, absolutely. So I think we're, when we talk about that edge, right, I think there's two parts. One is for a lot of the hyperscalers, a lot of them have now what Sujit mentioned, the ability to deploy a custom infrastructure to that edge and then keep them within the ecosystem. The difficulty on that is typically these are, you know, very high kilowatt where they have requirements where it mainly can only sit in the data centers. So in a lot of these cases, companies that are using these hyperscalers and want to extend out into further edge markets are creating hybrid solutions where they tie the compute and the network somehow back to one of the cores where the hyperscalers kind of sit. So increasingly it's like, how do you increase the ability to merge these two, right? And make it easy for them to manage. Like we said, there's a lot of people that start off in the hyperscalers because it's easy to get them up and spinning. And then they find out, okay, it delivers pretty good to most of the areas. But then when I start seeing more customers in areas where probably they're not the best, then how do I optimize and increase that? And there's definitely different ways to do that. And a lot of them do work together in order to get that going. Hi. So back on the topic of what's out there, what's not out there right now? Where are, should there be investment going? Do you think that there isn't? Where, what in markets perhaps are not getting the attention they should or what technologies are not getting the attention they should? Does anybody have any ideas as to what we're not doing right now? I think what I see in Asia specifically is the way the power piece is being managed. I think when I look at the EU and South American markets, the way you do energy storage and the way the energy storage systems actually interact with the grid, that interaction or that kind of partnership between the utilities and the edge companies is not happening. So if you look at it, you're looking at it as a customer, the power company look at the data centers as one of the largest customer verticals. But in spite of that, I don't see the kind of work that needs to be done from a sustainability perspective or for that matter, from a grid stability perspective actually being done in Asia per se. I see a lot of this in the developed markets. The utility players and the grid players are interacting very closely to ensure that you're not just a customer, but you're also contributing backwards and there are incentives that the utilities as well as some of the governments also are providing in terms of what the edge data center or for that matter, even a core data center does in terms of managing and maintaining the grid and ensuring that the losses are at the minimal and which can contribute to the sustainability angle. All right, anybody else have any thoughts on what's not being done out there that somebody should start paying attention to? I can share a couple of potential interesting stuff, right? So one of them that was mentioned is, what we see in a lot of these markets is that there's still a lot of incumbents. A lot of these telecom pairs or the ISPs could be state-owned. There's not a whole lot of choice, right? That really drives up prices. And in terms of the data centers, there's also not quite as many that are carrier-neutral. Those are a little bit difficult to find sometimes. So you end up having to go with care hotels and that changes the strategy on how you can deliver into the country. And because a lot of these are either care-owned or they're regional ISPs that are incumbents there, the cost to deliver into these markets are extremely high, sometimes 10X, what you would see in the US and Europe. And I think that also gives them a little bit of a sticker shock, right? But as more and more people start coming online as the network, the physical underlying network and infrastructure increases, you may see that cost start to come down a little bit, but that's kind of where I see things. Jack, anything you wish we saw more of right now in the investment in the sector? Yeah, we still see the content is the king in the digital world. So software, media, content companies, they require huge bandwidth. So over internet, we need a very large and fast-growing consumer market in the Asia Pacific. That's what we see. The consumption of these media in Asia is very important for the real-time applications. All right, well, I think we're running out of time here. So I think we'll just call it a day. And thank you very much for all your opinions. And I'm gonna hand it back to Laura here. Laura? Well, thank you, Rob. And thank you again to all of our speakers for today's insights on the US, Asia, and cloud opportunities. Just a quick reminder for you. Our speakers are staying on for the remainder of the lunch hour to answer any more of your questions. Just meet them back in the networking lounge and start table hopping to talk to as many as you can. And viewers, if you are one of our first 100 registrants, we hope you enjoyed your delicious lunch. Make sure you visit us at jsa.net to register for more upcoming JSA virtual roundtables. Our next one's happening April 7th, 1 p.m. Eastern, when leaders in our industry will talk about learning from the best, innovative new ways to reduce carbon footprints this year and beyond. That should be a good one. Well, that is a wrap for us. Look out for the playback of today's roundtable coming soon to JSA TV and JSA podcasts on YouTube, iTunes, iHeart, Spotify, and more. In the meantime, see you back in the networking lounge. Happy networking.