 I'd like to introduce Allison Kinnear with a topic you are not a fraud, conquer your imposter, your inner imposter. Allison is a mom, a coach, and an entrepreneur who is passionate about helping people turn out the volume on their inner critic and turn out the volume on their inner contender. She knows the journey from fraud to nothing that might is in. Well, well, and she has traveled and studied this terrain for the past 22 years. Allison is a founder and CEO of Voice Your Own in which she coaches, speaks, and leads people to go from feeling not good enough to finding a voice worth and confidence. Please help me welcome Allison. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. This is my first word camp. And I'm excited to bring this topic to you. It's funny. Well, I'm here. I'm seeing that there's all these amazing workshops about things related to my website and my business and technology. And this is not one of those talks. This is a talk about you. This is a talk about your inner game. So I want to thank you for taking this time to come here today because we're going to be kind of diving deep into imposter syndrome, what it is, how it shows up in our lives, and what we can do about it. But first, if I can just check, like, how many of you are bloggers or content creators by a raise of hand? Wonderful. How many are developers? Beautiful. And how many are, like, non-technical supporters of WordPress? Perfect. That helps me. I'm going to bring...my notes are way over here, but I'm going to stand over here or something like this. So my journey with imposter syndrome started a long time ago. I want to kind of tell you about that and then we'll dive into what imposter syndrome looks like. In 2007, I was hired at Google in their PeopleOps department. And when I got the job, I was having a conversation with someone and she said, well, you must be really good at what you do. You got hired at Google. And I said, yeah, if they really knew, this was someone close to me, I was like, I just feel like a total fraud. And this was long before I even knew there was a term to describe this. And she said, you mean a fraud? I said, I just, I feel like a total fraud. Like, if they only knew, I'm just really good at convincing people that I know what I'm doing. And apparently, I've alluded to everyone. And I coped with my imposter syndrome by doing all the things that a good imposter does. I was perfectionistic. I worked extremely long hours. I beat myself up over every little mistake that I made. And that worked for a bit. I mean, it helped me excel and helped me do great things. But it also was exhausting. And when I was, I started off at Google as an individual contributor and then within a year I was promoted to a people manager running a team of 16 people. And at that point, that's when the wheels really came off the bus. Because I could no longer really be the perfectionist that I wanted to be. My inner people pleaser that I had was really in conflict. Because when you're managing a team of 16 people, you can't really please everyone. My working hard and long hours really escalated. And I started getting feedback from people that was, from my directory reports that were saying things like, I was a micromanager, which really upset my people pleaser side. I was like, wait, how can I be a micromanager again of people pleasers? This is so confusing. And then in 2010, two important things happened. One, I became pregnant for the first time with my daughter. And two, I got a new manager who was the physical embodiment of every negative thought I had ever had about myself. She would come in and say things to me like, you're not pushing it hard enough. And she would say things like, you just need to work harder and longer, hours. You need to be quicker. And she would say things like, I don't think this is the right job for you. And so my confidence went from being kind of on shaky ground to completely plumbing. And the quality of my work went straight down as well. And I remember things got so bad they got to the point where I actually asked for a demotion. I asked to go back to my individual contributor role and what that would be, what that would mean. And when the word came out, and actually, I forgot to put this slide up, Google, all these people really seemed to have it together and I still don't know what's going on. But when the word came back of what my salary would be, I realized there was no way that a family of three, my husband had already quit his job to take care of our daughter. We couldn't survive in Silicon Valley on what that salary was. And I remember getting the news I was in my car, it was the only private place I could find, and I just remember sobbing and taking a moment to just breathe and feel all the feelings that came. You know, the sadness, the helplessness, the rage. And when it came down to it after I kept breathing it was just like fear. And I was like, oh, oh, I'm afraid. It was like all those intense feelings just gave way to just being afraid. And I was like, oh, I know how to be afraid. Like, it's just fear. And I remember just kind of laughing and realizing I had a decision to make. I could either stay in my position as a people manager and try to figure it out, or I could leave and do, I don't know what. Because at that point I felt like I had no work. I didn't feel like I was good at anything anymore. So I decided to stay. I was like, I'm not a quitter. We are going to figure this out. I got to figure this out. And so I leaned on my personal and professional support. And I began to entertain the idea. I was like, gosh, for 35 years I always thought I was a fraud. And that everything I viewed in my life, I viewed through the lens of I am a fraud. But hitting that rock bottom helped me contemplate a different question, which is, what if I'm not a fraud? What if all the things that the people who know me and love me and see me that I'm saying, gosh, you really beat yourself up? Do you know how good you are? Like what if I start to believe that, even a little bit, just a tiny bit? And so little by little that's what I started to do. And every time I would take this little baby step towards what if I'm not a fraud? Suddenly like things started opening up and kind of magical things started happening. Each time I took that step. And things really got interesting because at one point I had a big meeting or about 40 people and I was co-presenting with my colleague Janice. And Janice was just amazing. She had written books. She was somebody everybody loved and respected. She was just like, she was so articulate. I always grew up, my parents and my brother would say like, oh, you just speak your own language. It's hard to follow you. So I was always kind of self-conscious about the way I came across to people. But Janice was so articulate and amazing. And I remember going into this meeting with her and every time I would go into these meetings before, so we'd co-present it a lot, I would be thinking to myself while I'm talking, what would Janice think? What is Janice thinking? What is Janice thinking? What is she thinking? What is she thinking? I hope I can be like Janice. I hope I can be like Janice. That's usually what happens. And so that day I was getting into that headspace. But something inside me, maybe because I had been kind of taking these little baby steps out of you or our fraud and into maybe I'm not, something reared up in me that just said, forget Janice. Although to say forget was another effort. And we all okay with that effort? You okay if I drop some f-bombs? Because I was like, fuck Janice. Fuck her. Fuck her. Just do you. And suffer the consequences later. You say what you need to say and suffer the consequences later. And so I did. I stepped into that meeting. And instead of like, what is Janice thinking? What is Janice thinking? I was just like, no fuck Janice. I'm just going to speak. And so I did. And I got some pretty hard questions from the group afterwards. And I answered them and I was able to kind of like, keep it, keep it together. And then of course, the meeting ends and Janice is across the room and she walks us with me and she just beelines it to me and inside I am like, oh no, what did I say? What did I say? What's happening? And at this point I've been working together for like five years and she came up to me and said, I just want to tell you, I've never heard you talk like that before and it was amazing. That was beautiful. I've never heard you talk about your work. I've heard you talk about your work a lot of times but I've never heard you talk about it quite in that way. You've got a lot of really hard questions and you answered them beautifully. Well done. And then she walked away and I just sat there and went, okay, maybe I'm on to something. And it turns out, two years later after I've been a recovering imposter, I learned there was a name for all of this. We all knew the name before you even walked in, right? Imposter syndrome. So let's talk, oh, first I want to tell you something. Oh, and I need to say, once I started trusting myself, self-trust is the first secret of success, once I started trusting myself, that is when the promotion started happening again. That's when the recognition started coming. That's when I would tell you my team did the best work happen after I started taking those steps. The quality of my work was good before but it went so much higher once I was able to kind of take those baby steps into what if I'm not a fraud? And this is the key, trusting in yourself, trusting in your resiliency. It's interesting, and Neil is here and I was just talking to him last night and we had this great conversation about fear and one of the things that he said is that he uses fear as not necessarily something to stop, but to stop him, it's something to harness to propel yourself forward because when you're afraid of something who knows what's on the other side. It could be your passion. It could be a positive step in a new habit, a new way of life. So we can harness our fears and propel us forward or we can stop and shut ourselves down. And my hope for you is that you're able to make like a one degree shift, just a one degree shift to help you go from heading towards you know, self-critic island to heading towards the country of confidence because there's so much great things around confidence. And if we can make that one degree shift then and sustain it over time it can really take you to a great place. And because it's 4.30 in the afternoon anybody a little tired or on overload? So let me tell you two things that I like to tell people when I'm speaking. One is, and this is great for anyone who is really critical for themselves. I have a mentor who said instead of saying, you know, it's really easy to say things like ugh, you're making a mistake and you go, I'm so stupid, right? Anybody say that to themselves? I'm so stupid? Yeah. So instead of saying that, he's like what if you change that? Just say, I'm so sexy. I'm so sexy. You make him say, oh, I'm so sexy. Right? It's silly. It's silly. And I'm going to be sexy today. So if I am, you'd feel free to tell me. I'm okay with that. The second thing that I love doing with groups, especially when energy is starting to come as plump, is sometimes I just like for people to give each other a little high five, a little like get our physical bodies engaged and I might ask you to do that. So actually I'm going to ask you right now I want you to turn to someone, give them a high five and say, I'm so sexy. I'm so sexy. Exactly. Rinse and repeat just use that as much as you want to. So let's talk about sexiness and let's talk about imposter syndrome. I'm going to come down here because I like this a lot. So imposter syndrome. Well the thing about imposter syndrome is that imposter syndrome of impacts, oh I'm sexy right now. I can't. Imposter syndrome affects high achieving people. It affects people who are highly skilled but have a low perception of themselves that they are actually lowly skilled. That's their perception. That's why it affects people in tech. It affects people professors at universities. It affects people who are really high achieving but inside they feel like they're going to be found out as a fraud. They think, ah it's just luck. Oh I'm just really nice and people like me. This was all just a fluke. It was just it just kind of happened that I got this amazing job. There are people who are at upper levels in executive teams in large companies who are thinking, I'm just here because it's a fluke. And when you ask what does your team just hire nice people and they're like no, they're really rigorous. I'm like okay. So we have a high ability right? We have high ability. So our actual ability is quite high but our perceived ability, our perception of our ability is quite low. This is different than the, oh gosh done in Kruger effect. Anybody heard of the done in Kruger if you've heard of the done in Kruger effect? Done in Kruger effect is the opposite. Done in Kruger effect is when your actual ability is quite low but your perception of your ability is high. So I think about this like when you know American Idol when they would be like you know, are you going to be the next American Idol? Oh yes I am and they're all pumped up and then they step up and they're like wow. It's like no. This is somebody who has a low ability but their perception of themselves is quite escalated. And the biggest fear for most imposters is that they are really afraid of falling into that done in Kruger effect and so they do everything possible to keep their perception of themselves low. And I love this quote. So done in Kruger effect, a wise man never knows all. Only fools know everything. And in Poster Syndrome, he did Austin Powers, Wayne's World, writer, director, comedian, at any time I still expect that no talent police will come and arrest me. That's what imposter syndrome sounds like. It sounds like somebody's going to come at any point and take this away from me because it was all luck anyway. And the interesting thing is ooh I'm coming down again. I've got one more sexy. So here's the thing. What we want to do is we want to bring this blue line up to this kind of gray area so that our perception of our abilities matches our actual abilities. And not only that, there's a great book called the Confidence Code where they talk about how your confidence is more important than your IQ. It's more important than your actual ability. And what they find is that successful people actually have a slight tilt just a slight tilt toward overconfidence. So in reality you're here, you're high achiever, you want to be not here, you want to be just slightly above that line. And for many people this is a, I mean this is a stretch. It's a leap to go that high. Especially when you're used to being down here. This is a perception problem. Not a performance problem. That's what imposter syndrome is. It's not about your performance. It's about your perception around your performance. And so what happens is when our confidence is so low again, like in another way to put this is this is a confidence issue not a competence issue. Right? Your competence can be super high but your confidence in yourself can be so low. And that impacts us in so many ways. For example if there's a job that you are interested in kind of excelling to for most women, they will wait until they meet 100% of the criteria before they apply for that job. For men, typically not all men, but men typically 60%. So that means people are who have higher confidence, they put themselves up for promotion sooner. They put themselves out there sooner. They're okay to make a mistake and fail in front of a group. For others, that's like the worst thing imaginable. So they don't put themselves out there. And by the way just for the data people here 70% of the US population is impacted by imposter syndrome. And it impacts women, people of color immigrants, people who grew up in lower socio-economic status, LGBTQ because it's really easy to confuse the messages that society gives us about their perception of our abilities. And that feeds into our that can feed into our own perception of ourselves. It also impacts people who work from home. It impacts people in highly creative fields where there's a lot of learning that needs to happen. That's why it affects tech so much because there's a lot of unknowns. There's a lot of risks that may be taken. There's a lot of creating that needs to happen. So you know what? Let's take a high five. This is a perception problem, not a performance problem. High five someone to tell them that this is a perception problem not a performance problem. It's someone's perception. Let's do this. So now, what do we do? What do we do? What do we do about this? So one of the first things that we can do is to recognize your inner critic. And what I love doing for people because I'm telling you it is so powerful give your inner critic a name. You know when I sat there in that meeting, I was able to find the dial in which I was able to turn down in my fuck jazz moment, I was able to turn down the volume on my inner critic and turn up the volume on my inner contender. My inner contender in the inner contender I define as that part of you that if they were not afraid what would they do? So part of you that just wants to go for it. It wants to say what needs to be said. It wants to put out the content. What would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? That's your inner contender. Right? So it's helpful to name your inner critic or your inner and your inner contender. So for example one of the things I do is I do consultations with people. I gave a talk at Amazon a couple of months ago over 600 people ended up attending the talk and I was having these consultations with a lot of people and there was this one guy who was at a top level executive team immigrant and he came from he went to a university that wasn't as prestigious as his colleagues and he said I'm so afraid of losing my seat at the table. I'm so afraid that I'm going to get you know they're going to find me out. I think they just hired me. I think they just brought me out because they all liked me. So we were able to kind of like work that out and I said you know what's the name of your inner contender and he's like ah so silly. He's like it's the commander and I was like cool. Alright here's what I want you to do. I want you to build a swagger song list that helps you bring out your inner contender so before you go into those meetings I think you're going to be nervous. You've got your swagger song that you're listening to in the car so the commander can show it because the commander you already have a seat at this table you wanted this seat at the table you have a don't lose it because when you when you continue to show and you're kind of like still trying to be scrappy and prove that you earned your seat people will see that and they're like I don't know right? But when your inner contender can show up or your inner commander can show up then it can make a difference. I checked in with him six weeks later he's like ah as I said I can't even tell you I'm feeling so much better I'm doing great work I have like a whole playlist that I listen to and I don't really need it all the time and it's helping so much I'm feeling so much better about being on this team I have another person same thing to the consultation with her hers was called the cheerleader she's a lawyer and she oftentimes was the only woman in the room and so people would come in and ask her to take notes and instead of imploding like most people do she would explode towards others and get really you know kind of blast other people and she recognized it was a problem she had a hard time trying to fix it but again it was that scrappy upbringing she came from a lower socio-economic class and didn't go to as prestigious of the school and so she was still like that kid fighting for her worth on the streets and she was able to later helped her be like you know what you're okay you're totally okay you don't need to blame those people you're good and I checked in with her six weeks later and she's like it's really helping me naming your inner critic and naming your inner contender can be tools to help you be able to find those volume tiles my inner critic I call the wagging finger it is just like no battery you're not enough you're not good enough it's like just a giant wagging finger other people Cruella De Vil so let's do this we've got a little do we have time? let's take 30 seconds right down what's the name of your inner critic oftentimes the first thing that comes to mind right down your inner critic right down your inner contender anybody got one you're going to feel brave enough yeah my inner critic I named my inner critic Steve a while ago he's a character played by Steve Buschini Steve Buschini he gives me really bad advice you should just go back to bed I said you shut up Steve I love it I love it Steve Buschini he's a great inner critic I can just see him all kind of wiry yeah, strung out that's awesome thank you one other thing I'd like to do again in my workshops let's give this guy a whoosh from your heart it's just like a positive energy ready 1, 2, 3 whoosh get a little wooey for you guys anybody else? my inner critic actually I came up with this inner critic like 10 years ago I'm going to be lying internal Asian mom internal Asian mom oh fantastic yeah, high standards highly critical yeah, excellent let's give it a little whoosh here 1, 2, 3 so the point is not to kill the inner critic the inner critic's there to help keep you safe emotionally safe, mentally safe physically safe sometimes but the point is to turn down the volume because the inner critic lies the inner critic can crowd out every positive thing about yourself the inner critic can make you believe that you have nothing of value and that's why anybody have an inner contender sometimes it's easier to name our inner critic than our inner contender yeah I think I have a friend who gave me some good advice to help her yeah, yeah perfect, excellent let's give it a whoosh whoosh, excellent thank you, that's right and sometimes it can be that, it can be somebody we know someone that helps us remember our value and our worth so because our inner critic can recalibrate us because our inner critic can kind of crowd out all of the things that we're good at we have to do what we can to remember that our positive qualities so anybody ever receive a performance review and they scroll all the positive comments and then just go right to the areas of development raise your hand if you've done that or you get comments on your blog and everybody's like, well that's so amazing oh my gosh that's great and then like one person says something negative and like that's the only thing you see right, it's just like hyper focused on that one negative review disregard the rest it's really easy for us to do that and the problem becomes that when we hyper focus on the negative then we kind of crowd out all the things that we are good at and it keeps that perception of ourselves really low I used to when I would give talks I would look at, I would give talks to a room and I would see, you know, 50 people like leaning in and I would see one person kind of like checked out and I would speak only to that person I would be like, you, I'm focusing right on you, I'm going to flip you I'm going to turn you you're going to love me man and it never really helped I was like ignoring all the other people that were like smiling and nodding along and now I've learned that I don't need to pay attention to the checked out person I need to lean into the people that are actually with me the people that are actually hanging out with me we need to lean into those positive comments because there's not just to inflate our ego but to help remind us why we're here doing this work in the first place to help remind us of our work to not let our inner critic wreak havoc so one thing that I actually encourage people to do sometimes is to make a brag list try it one day brag about yourself like unfiltered bragging the coolest thing that you have ever done in your entire life I can make my tongue into it a taco like you can hit the most miniscule thing I'm really kind of making barnyard animal sounds or I am an amazing writer or I am an amazing coder or I am an amazing whatever we sometimes need to remind ourselves of that because it helps us be able to see all of ourselves and not lose track of ourselves and it also helps us for those times when we are afraid and we think I can't put this out there I can't have that hard conversation it helps push us through that makes sense this is just one of those interesting things in life where our comfort zone is here and the magic happens outside of our comfort zone we all kind of know this right and for those of you who are bloggers or who are creating content or have created your own business we have a lot of practice in being outside our comfort zone we practice that on a daily basis and one of the things that I heard a talk earlier Michelle she received a question from the audience where somebody said what would you if you were to go back in time to when you first started being a blogger what do you wish you would invent that you know now and she said I wish I wasn't afraid to ask for help this is when we are afraid that our inner critic is running amok when we are not reaching out our inner critic is usually running amok so we have to interrupt the pattern we have to interrupt that inner critic and say oh I hear you I hear you Steve I need Kevin to come in now I hear you internal and now I need whoever to come back I need someone like I hear the fear I hear it and usually fear anybody experiences where your fear the thing you're most afraid of once you actually do it it leads you to that next level that you've been dying to get to in the first place raise your hand if you've had that happen the thing you're most afraid of and suddenly it's like oh my gosh this is what I've been wanting all along our fear is not necessarily something that should stop us in our track it's kind of an indication that there's some gold on the other side there's this great quote from Joseph Campbell it says the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure that you seek the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure that you seek that fear is just a feeling of like you're about to change you're about to grow in a big way you're about to take that next step and go to that next level that's why my best work happened you know what I mean it's like after I was like oh I'm just afraid okay I can work through fear let's move through this fear let's step into all the things I am good at let's feel the fear let's do it anyway I'm not faking it you know some people say I'm not faking until you make it and that's true to a certain extent I'm not a big fan of faking things I prefer to be just that just me but what faking it does is faking it gives you that little oomph to like take the risk to be a little bit more bold to take that next step and so we have to interrupt our fear patterns to help us take those next steps so I've created a guide for people if you want more information it's called imposter syndrome survival guide because I see what happens I see how people will work themselves to the bone especially small business owners and entrepreneurs where you're just working all the time it's like a working smarter not harder kind of thing imposter syndrome will make you work harder all the time and it will stop you from working smarter it will stop you from taking care of yourself so that you can do the great work imposter syndrome I see how much it stops people in their fears from actually growing their business from making the calls or writing the content that they really want to write but then they are worried about what other people will think those kinds of things I see that I have a front row seat of that clients are most entrepreneurs, business owners or executives and I see them stopping themselves a lot but I also see what happens when they break through and I also see them growing their businesses a lot more I see them getting more clients I see them having the hard conversations and then suddenly everything changes for the better because they did and so if anyone is interested in that I actually have one other thing after you if you do the guide there is an opportunity for a consultation with me and you can do it for free if you just type word into the consultation thing so that I just want to offer that to you because it's important to me I see all the people in WordCamp as being really doing things to change the world and to me that's it's just important because I know magical things happen when people are stepping into their inner contender and not their inner crank so that's a gift that I just want to offer that being said, my hope for all of you is that you make whatever shift you can to interrupt the inner clinic in you and help you step into the inner contender you don't have to be exhausted, flattened and people you can do amazing work and also take care of yourself you can do amazing work and dance with people's concerns and reflections of you and my hope is that you do that and you take whatever steps you need to take so that you can't show up in the world in a big way that's what I have in terms of content with any questions total imposter with a very specific skill set yeah, that's a great question so can you feel confident in other areas of your life but then suffer from imposter syndrome it's interesting yes and no, I think for many people imposter syndrome is kind of pervasive I know for me it was like I felt like a fraud with my husband who I was about to married I felt like a fraud in applying to Google and it was like if anyone really knew what was going on inside this head they would not let me that was kind of one end of the spectrum I think there's also sometimes imposter syndrome just kind of flares up so if you're in a new job or you're taking, you're doing a whole new project that you're in the learning process there's a really great book called The Secrets of Highly Successful Women Valerie Young she talks about seven good reasons why you would feel like an imposter and one of them is you're learning something new a lot of college students feel it it can also happen if the workplace environment is not conducive there are certain workplace environments where they're like I want you to achieve great things but have a really low risk like take really low risk it's just a pressure cooker of imposter syndrome like it's a breeding grounds for that so I think it can happen and part of it is to kind of tease out why is it happening in this particular area is it because I'm learning new things is it because I'm having to show up in a bigger way is it because I'm having to have more difficult conversations is it because of the environment is it because I'm the only woman in the room the only person of color in the room the only whatever in the room like sometimes those are factors that can feed into it as well is that how? yes so I have a classic exactly what you're talking about and one thing that helped me overcome it I've always wanted to present one of these conferences but I just thought I don't know anything I don't know I can't present about No.JS because I don't know No.JS I can't present about React because I don't know React I mean again I really like to present but I don't know anything but it sounds kind of stupid but at one point I thought why don't I present on something I actually know about and I did and it worked I mean it was like it was quite a leap for me to do but I was like you know I actually do know something and it went you know it was at the Pacific Northwest Drupal summit last sorry it was a true poll it went really well but it took me years to finally decide that I did know something that was worth presenting about yeah thank you for that to me that's where the raglass comes in and the raglass doesn't have to be necessarily I'm amazing but it's like what do I know what do I know because I'm not I'm working my butt off I'm not sitting around eating bombons not doing anything right like I do know things everyone in this room knows things sometimes we need to remind ourselves of that because if you do have a goal of presenting then you can find those things that you do know and talk about instead of shitting on yourself like when you should know this or you should know that it's not always helpful when we show other stuff I'm a freelancer when it comes time to write my new voices I feel completely confident in my skills and my knowledge when I'm doing the work and I know my clients love me and then it comes time to like send them a bill and there's this boy Steve says yeah they're going to look at that bill and laugh so it's very similar to what we call super specific tips yeah that's it there's a lot that can be done around working with our relationship with money because it definitely can show up in that arena because money has a lot of meanings and a lot of attachments for us and our relationship with money it really impacts the way we ask for money and the way we value and we put a monetary value on ourselves and so it's worth I know for me things that have been helpful is really just reflecting on what does money what were the messages that I received as a kid growing up around money what are the things that I tell myself about money is money there's not enough and there's never enough or is money something that you only get if you're good enough or is money there's a lot of stories that we can make up about money that that's a good talk for a future thing because I think it flares up a lot for people you sold yourself to him and he chose you have that same conversation and I think there's also sometimes we need sounding boards in our lives other people to say no you shouldn't turn to this much and for us to kind of like interrupt that pattern and just boldly like soften the consequences I'm just going to put this in voice out and I will I will sound the consequences whatever comes my way as a result usually it's a check take it to the bank yeah yes I'll just make a comment I suspect I'm a little bit older than you but I'm also female what's really exciting is to see younger people that I am learn about this stuff earlier in life because it's the type of stuff for many of us in my generation and older that my first profession is civil engineering so I've been around in a man's world for much of my life and it's so nice to have a name to put on this and I am getting rid of my inner critic is my mother and it's like my real mother and she's not in this room to worry about it but to write that down and they cross it out and they go well maybe it really is so I just use her name Marge it's all just a name on it but it's just to realize to be able to put a name on it but it's kind of sad that it's also my mother and I'm glad I didn't raise my kids that way at all but still it's just it's kind of a it's so it's very exciting to hear something from the next generation that is going to make things better for everyone thank you for that yeah I agree like I said I didn't know about imposter syndrome until two years I was like two years out of the woods and I went to a workshop at Google and they were like we're going to talk about imposter syndrome are you kidding me I've been suffering I finally got myself out of this it would have been nice to have known there was like a new name so yeah it is helpful and there's a great book that Secrets to Successful Women I can't even emphasize enough by Valerie Young it's a fantastic book and a great resource I know it talks about women and like I said men suffer from it too but it's really eye opening I think I haven't had time I just want to say thank you thank you so much