 I would tell them first off, where there's friction in that customer experience, you've got to embrace it. Absolutely have to embrace it. Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing Podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales, and outperform your competition. All right, everybody. Welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams alongside my co-host, Beth Puppy Glove, and we have an awesome show lined up for you today. Today we have Nate Henderson. He is the chairman and CEO of Built. He has got some really exciting and I'm going to say revolutionary things to share with us. Nate, thank you so much for joining us. Well, you're welcome. It's great to be here with both of you. We are really excited to have you here and share with our listeners about Built. Why don't you take a couple minutes and introduce yourself and the concept behind Built to our listeners so they can get to know you a little better. Absolutely. Nate Henderson, I'm the original founder and now chairman and CEO of this company, Built Incorporated. In the software world, we refer to it as in the customer experience space, meaning we specialize in a very specific customer experience. But as it relates to the construction industry, we revolutionize that experience people have with products that require instructions for installation, assembly, setup, repair, maintenance, whether it's for automobiles, you know, construction equipment, construction materials, all the way down to even DIY products. We revolutionize that by providing tested and validated 3D guided interactive instructions that are multi-language capable used today in 172 countries, 10 different languages, and just make that experience that we tend to think of as very frustrating. When we have instructions that we need a little bit of guidance around something, flip that around from being something that's frustrating to something that's wonderfully empowering. That's cool. And Nate, I'm curious to know, like, how'd you come up with this idea? Like, were you from the industry or did you have an experience that you had like an aha moment? Yeah, good question. My background is actually enterprise software. I was with a really big software company, SAP, but there's actually a friend of mine that had come in after some frustrating experiences, you know, assembling and installing just different products that just kind of came in and said, why is it that we can go to a movie theater and we can see like Avengers or something that is almost completely, you know, computer graphic and nothing real. And yet I open up a product, a pump that I have to install at a construction site and I have paper instructions. Why is it this way? Or worse, that I go to YouTube and it's the Wild Wild West. There's 20 different opinions as to how to do something. You know, can't we do it in a better way? And that's really how this started. I know what you're doing is not just for DIYers, just as we were prepping. You were talking about a good portion of your user base actually being in the pros. Could you potentially break down what percent of your audience is professional versus DIY right now? It kind of sits right in the middle about about 50 50. I mean, you've got some products, you know, here to go through your home Depot, for example, you've got a lot of things that are sometimes installed by DIY people and other times by pros. And there tends to be a big mix, but you know, some of our biggest customers of the United States Air Force and United States Navy. I was looking at some of the data you all had like on your site and like one of the things you mentioned, you're like, Hey, we help people learn how to use our products more quickly. I'm paraphrasing here, Nate, but how are you measuring that? Like, how are you saying, Hey, we know that this is an issue and it's so much an issue. We're tracking people to see how quickly they learn. And then I want you to answer that question, but then I want to talk more about the state of the industry, how you see the industry moving and why this is such a need. Because, granted, you've got a great product, but like there's an overarching issue around education and more importantly labor. And so I want to hear you answer the question about, you know, how are you tracking efficiency? And let's talk about what are the issues that are happening in our industry and reference to that labor problem? Absolutely. And let me start out by giving all of your listeners a little bit of context. So to the end user, whether it's a pro in your job, or if you're a DIY consumer built as always free, right, the the brands of the manufacturers pay for it. They want you to have a great, great experience. They want you to be very successful in what you do. The reason we know a lot about improvements in like time, etc, is because one of the things that we are tracking in an anonymous way is the average amount of time people spend in each step. As you go through built, you'll see that every step there is segmented with it. So you can interact, it will guide you through each step, but you can hop back and forth between different steps. Or if you just want to go to the two or three steps that you need, you can just jump specifically to to those steps, that information we completely anonymize it so that there's no, you know, tracking back to you as an individual unless the manufacturer requires that for some safety reasons. But we will aggregate that information. And via some analytics dashboards, we bring that back to the manufacturers basically in a context of saying, understand your customer experience. And with this data, take steps to improve it. We also take reviews and net promoter score if you're if you're familiar with those at the end, we have room for for actual reviews that people put in, because we want to deliver back to the manufacturer, whether it's a, you know, Delta Fossa or Samsung or whoever. The idea is create a great experience but give them the tools to make an even better experience and better products that help your customers more and more in a in a more delightful way every time they use it. So via those analytics, we're able to benchmark these things and say, okay, well, the brand believes that it typically takes a pro, you know, 36 minutes to do this. But we can tell them after hundreds and hundreds and sometimes thousands and thousands people use it, we can tell them, no, this is exactly how long it takes. Now let's look in those and find where the friction is in the in the process. Let's improve it. And it's smart. And oftentimes, oftentimes, it's just a point of confusion. And so in these built instructions, even though we've gone through our instruction design experts have gone through and curated each instruction to make sure that they're right, right? Well, actually, the the brands will send us the product, we actually go through the installation ourselves, just to make sure it's right. But if there's still some friction remaining in it, we can push out an update to your smartphone, instantaneously. So you never have to worry about whether your instructions are out of date with it. So as we go through that learning process, and and are able to prove, hey, we're saving time, you know, people are being more successful, we don't stop there, there's still friction, we're continually improving it. And so as a as a construction worker, you know that you have the very, very best tool in your hands to make you successful. That is such an incredible level of data that you're able to offer. I know there's I mean, I we were just at the builder show this year, and we know that built was there as well. And there were so many manufacturers advertising how much labor savings there was, you know, installs 40% faster, installs 20% faster than their competitor or the leading competitor in that space. But typically, if you ask them, they're like, Well, you know, it's approximate, because you don't have to do this thing. And we, you know, but it's it's typically like a gut level, which that's fine. Is there anything you could share? Or do you have a specific example that you could share with us Nate about a manufacturer that you've brought this information to and they were either able to improve their process or improve their instructions just for clarity's sake that actually led to a shorter install time? I mean, hundreds of them. Well, one that was actually at the show that had a beautiful booth, a Murphy door, you know, four or five years ago, this was this was a pretty small, you know, business that one or two products now they're just completely killing it. They launched a complete new product line about three years ago, just before COVID hit. And, you know, their big concern was, hey, we're launching all these new products, you know, big retailers are picking this up and so forth, we're gonna have to hire this massive customer support staff. And they actually did not have to hire a single additional customer support representative, even though they added like doubled or triple the number of products that they sold, because we were making that install experience so easy that anyone could do it very, very successfully. But even those that were doing it, you know, their estimates were, you know, these projects were typically taking about three, three to three and a half hours for, for a skilled person to do. And oftentimes a day and a half to two days for someone that doesn't quite know what they're doing. And the data that we showed is most people were done with the complete install in about two hours and 43 minutes, somewhere around there. So it's, it's when you, when you think of metrics, again, because you have such a wide range of people that are doing it, you've got very experienced people and now a growing segment of installers or, you know, technicians that are very new to what they're doing. You can have a pretty wide range. And so that the first metric that we tell people to look at is, don't necessarily look at the time that it saves, although invariably we do that. Focus on a quality experience, a quality install. And then you have, you know, fewer callbacks and so forth with it. And then as you do that, eventually the, the time savings continue in it. But everybody that uses it comes away. I mean, if you, if you look on the App Store reviews that are left for us, I mean, people just over and over say, oh, man, you saved me so much time. I can't believe I did this so much faster with it. So we have a lot of data that's, that's both specific as well as anecdotal. And I want to ask you about the state of the industry, because you said something as a, you know, before we started recording, that was really profound, which is the fact that there's issues with how we're trying to solve the problem of labor. Like your, your product obviously has, you know, a component to this, but can you speak to what you've seen in reference to labor and what manufacturers and those in the industry are doing and what you see as the right solution forward? Yeah, it's something that everyone feels. And Beth, as you mentioned at the International Builders Show, you you saw people, you know, claiming improvements in this. And really, it is in response to the fact that we have a huge labor problem. And it's not just in the United States. It's Europe, you go to Canada, et cetera, with it, you know, as the economy has, has grown, et cetera, people have a lot more opportunities with it. And the end result of that has been that you have a significant, now the vast majority of workers that are in the construction space or even, you know, pro-technician space with it, they're not churning. They've not been doing it for 25 years. As a matter of fact, in the United States now, and this is across all industries, the majority of technicians, English is not their first language. Now, that's, that's that's a significant thing by itself. But the other thing that we have to recognize within, for example, the, the construction industry is, is, you know, for the past century, you've tended to bring people in for classroom training to teach them how to do stuff. And then you give them, you know, two or three stacks of binders as to how to work. Well, the reality is, most of the people that are that are in construction are there because they didn't like all that, that typical type of schoolwork, right? That, that type of learning is not one that really speaks to them. And so as you, as you go to a roofing crew or you look at even, even pro, you know, construction workers at a, at a, you know, an office building or something like that, you ask them where they get their help. YouTube. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yep. And it is so expensive to take someone off of the job site and bring them into training. But now, now that the labor market is so tight, the other problem you have is you're bringing people in that are not trained. Typically, they're going to stay on the job for six weeks until someone offers them two or three dollars more. And so a business looks at it and says, I can't afford to train you because you're only going to be here for six weeks. Well, this, this starts a vicious cycle and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And so if, in the end, we just forego the train, the training and just hope and pray that they'll kind of figure it out. Again, we, we have a 2022 problem and we're trying to solve the solution with 1990 tools. And as a construction industry in general, we need to catch up. But the good news is there's lots and lots of things out there to help us. And it's not just a built thing. There are lots of other things out there to help this industry just be better and more efficient and make people more successful at what they do. So you're talking about training individuals that are on the job site. You say, Hey, we're trying to solve the problem with 1990 solutions for 2022 problem. Can you more specifically define what that problem is and what the right path to the solution for it is? Because like I look at it and like training is one part of it. But the other part is like, how do you get people into the industry? Is the other part is recruiting, getting them in. So it's getting them in training and keeping them there. You're exactly right, Zach. The, the, the, the first issue is how do you get people in? But I would say even before that, because you already have people in, the problem is, is you don't have people staying and they're not referring others to say, Hey, this is a good industry to be in, right? The, if you talk to construction workers, et cetera, it's immensely transient, immensely transient, right? Because people are hopping to other opportunities. So when I, when I talk with, with, you know, construction companies, brand manufacturers, distributors, et cetera, I say, let's first focus on maintaining and making successful the people that are already in the industry. Okay? Let's keep them because they're already in it. As they're successful, they'll bring others into it. And so it's this process of recognizing, okay, you've gotten them in one way or another. The faster you can make them more valuable, the more you can afford to pay them and the more likely they are to stay in the industry. Okay? Pretty, pretty, pretty simple formula. You know, the person wants to make $25 an hour, but if they're only doing $16 an hour work, yeah, it doesn't really work, right? That's not sustainable. And then the reason that they leave is because someone's given them $2 an hour more. But again, to the point that we were making earlier, if you're, if you focus on, well, the only way I can make them more valuable is I got to bring them into class for two weeks. They don't want to do that. They're off the job. It costs them money, it costs the brand money, et cetera. And so, and so you have this concept, one of the big distributors of appliance talked to us once about this concept of truck training. They said, look, the vast majority of our installers, they pull up to a job site or pull up to a house, and they're popping open YouTube or whatever they have. And they're going to, they got about six, seven minutes to prep for that job. And, and, and that's when they're learning with it. Now, you add to it the fact that products today are more complex than ever in our history. You know, it used to be that faucets just required, and you're just going to screw it in here, stick this in here. No, you've got Delta has touch faucets that require electrical connections, some of them use Wi-Fi, et cetera. So the breadth of knowledge now that's required is, is, is increasing, right? The consequences of a bad install is rapidly increasing. And so rather than kind of push that away and ignore it, my point is, hey, embrace it and realize most of the training they're going to do is you've got a couple of minutes to do it. And that's why with built the first couple of years, we did nothing but testing, just testing, testing, testing, testing, all kinds of products that we could do to and what we realized is that, you know, most like, you know, contractors, et cetera, if you've got a new plumber that's in there, they'll look at it in the truck. And then while they're sitting there at the house or something, they're pulling up their phone and they're kind of looking, you know, so that the homeowner or somebody doesn't see what they're doing, et cetera. And you know what, instead of being shameful about it, let's just accept it. It's reality. Oh, I was going to say like every contractor I've worked with, like they're literally on the job site on YouTube, zero shame. They're not hiding it nearly above from me. They're not hiding it all. They're like, they're like, hey, have you seen a YouTube video for this? Like, like zero shame, you know? Exactly. And so and so rather than rather than kind of pushing that aside and saying it's not real, except the fact that, hey, it is. And and they need training in real time. And it can't be the entire ocean. You need to give them the piece that they need right now. And this is and this is why in Bilt, we allowed for different ways for people that they learn. Some people like to see the overview first. And then they go to individual steps. Others like to just hop to the step that they need. Right? We all learn in different ways. And that's what we're trying to support is somebody coming in and saying, well, I've done this product two or three times. It's just this programming step. I don't remember. Bang, you hop to it. If there's an update to the instructions, it says there's an update pending. Bring it in. You can look at it, zoom in. If you want to know what a part is, just touch it. It'll tell you exactly what it is with it. And then you know what they're done. So what you do in that process is you've made the more confident what they're doing. They are now worth being paid more because they have fewer callbacks, right? They're faster at doing their jobs. They can they can do more jobs. This means that they're going to get paid more and there's a greater likelihood that they're going to stay in the industry. And then the knowledge base starts to increase and they get better at what they do. And then they're able to enable and support others with it. But it's, you know, too oftentimes we see the businesses or prime contractors are resisting what reality is and pretending that it doesn't exist. No, no, no, embrace it. It's OK. Focus on making people successful and reaching their lives. And we will flip this problem on its head. You started us off by talking about really you're in the customer experience space and everything you've talked about is about improving the customer's experience, which is really interesting because we talk a lot about that from the digital perspective, improving the customer's experience of how they're engaging with you. What advice would you give to a manufacturer look that's hearing you? I can just see people in their cars, because Zack and I have just been nodding along with everything you're saying about labor and experience. What advice would you give to a manufacturer who's just jiving with what you're saying and is like, yeah, there's definitely potential for us to improve the experience that our customers have with our products? I would tell them, first off, where there's friction in that customer experience, you've got to embrace it. You absolutely have to embrace it. If we could close the doors, you know, completely on this, I could tell you about a handful of companies that have for the past four years crushed their verticals, crushed it. I mean, they have they have gone from like market share of below 10% now to over 60. And they're racing to 80 or 90. And yes, while they've got very, very good products, right, you all you always have to start with a really good product. But in each of these cases, the CEOs of these companies and the leadership teams, they spend time every single week listening to customer support calls. They go out on job sites. If their reviews on their websites, they not only read them, but they take time every week to respond to them. OK. It's so important that you recognize this pain. And if people are using your products out in the hot Arizona sun, you need to be feeling that you know that pain, you need to feel that pain and you need to focus your teams. On on really looking at that, the installer or whoever that is, ask yourself the question, what is it going to take for us to enrich that person's life? You've got 20 minutes or an hour or three hours with this product, right, that your brand is on it. You should enrich that experience so wonderfully that when they walk away, they're a promoter of your brand. And I know Zach and Beth, you guys, you guys mentioned on your website, you know, your branding and your messaging is so important. I'm going to add to that kind of a step in front of that. These things are reflections of what people think of you. Your greatest sales channel today, if you're in the construction industry, your greatest sales channel is the construction workers, the people that actually install and work with your product. Homeowners, builders, they're always asking their opinion. Hey, what's a good product? Oh, yeah, what do you like here? What do you what do you use at your house? Oh, yeah, I mean, that's a really that's a really good point is is and we talk about this a lot like you can go and get in the spec from an architect. You can make it in there and sell the owner in the GC. But if the contract or the person installing it hates the product and is like, it's faulty, it doesn't work. I've had issues with it. What's the likelihood that it gets changed even after you've done all that work, especially if you're a manufacturer, you've done all that all that process. Why not close the loop and make sure you've got a really, really solid experience? And what you're talking about is it's first hand research from the from the customer's perspective. But you're you're saying, take it a step further and like, go live. If you can understand the pain points and why people like it and solve this problems, you're going to grow. It's that simple. Exactly. And today in our socially sensitive world, you just have to realize that that that someone coming out as a promoter of your brand after an install, it was first couple of installs they do with your product. These people will tell others, they'll tell their friends, they get on social media, take a selfie, even even construction workers, hey, if you do that amazing job, right, taking a picture, hey, look what I did, push it out, et cetera. This is now your largest and most powerful sales channel that you have. And and and, you know, 20 years ago, it was small. Now it is the majority of it. The good thing is by focusing on the customer experience, you're really enriching someone's life, right? And that's just the greatest of all things. You know, a very golden rule approach to do business. But if you if you if you get a chance and I'll, you know, for all your customers out there, Fred Reichel is he's longtime management consultant at Bain and Company. He just published a book here in December called Winning on Purpose. And it's really it's really all about that. It's it's the economics of, hey, when you focus on enriching these customers and feeling the friction, feel the pain with it, the staggering financial results that come as as as a result of that. And I I I have conversations all the time now, the CEOs that kind of look at it and say, hey, look, I'm tired of just throwing a product out there and just saying, hey, you know, we're smart. We threw it out there. It's going to work. Let's hope that it works. Now, focusing on on that feedback from the customer and then and then focusing on how they can improve it. And it's just I mean, the financial results speak for themselves. I mean, the harsh reality here, Nate, is that this is one thing I tell manufacturers is that your customer, especially the GC or it's given the contractor, it has much more at risk than you do when they choose your product. They choose your product. They have a tremendous amount of risk because it's the reputation like their market size is this big. It's super small. You burn a bridge with the contractor. You might have a bad review online, but you can go get another customer. Like a lot of these people build their entire portfolio of customers by word of mouth. And if you are the reason why they lost or they damage that reputation, they'll never use you again. That's an excellent point, Zach. And funny enough, you know the biggest constituency that came to our campus, Beth, at the International Builders Show were the big home builders by far. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Interesting. Coming to us and just saying, wow, holy cow. Yes. I have a massive problem with this. And we're trying to be all the things that we just talked about with it and saying, hey, look, if I choose a color product or a moment product, the reality is my reputation is on the line as well. And most customer issues, right? When you turn a home over to somebody, they're not calling about anything. Nope. They're calling both of rules. Yep. Right? Absolutely. And they're calling the GDG feedback and the sub. OK, you've got to come back and do this stuff and et cetera. And 99% of the time, the person that comes back to do the work, it's not the prime guy. It's not the really, really good installer. It's the newcomer for somebody that's coming that doesn't know any history, et cetera, with it. And it just, it's a bad customer experience all the way around. So let's get it right the first time. Yeah. Nate, this has been awesome, man. If someone wants to connect with you and reach out, what's the best way for them to do that? You can send us an email info at BuiltCorp.com. But you can download Built and their places in there where you can put in suggestions. We just love enriching people's lives. It's a fun thing. That's great. Nate, again, thanks, man, for coming to the show. And for our listeners, if you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you go to nvo.com slash podcast to subscribe and get more. Until next time, I am Zach Williams alongside Beth Plumnikolod. Thanks, everybody.