 Good afternoon, everyone. It's great to be with you today to talk about the future of cities and what this looks like after The pandemic, you know, even as vaccines are sort of rolling out and we can sort of see a light at the end of the tunnel It's clear that the pandemic has had a significant impact on the way Texans will sort of live work and even play in our communities in the future, you know Many of us are still working remotely. We're still doing events virtually We're still gathering with friends digitally perhaps for resume happy hours and a considerable number of our students are still learning remotely and And all the while as we've we've sort of have grappled with the pandemic in the last year We've seen calls for social and economic justice The continuation of extreme weather events like hurricanes and the recent Texas freeze a new Biden Administration and a Texas legislature meeting all the while as Texas grows more urban I don't know about you, but that seems like a very Exhausting year of big events that have happened and they're changing the landscape of the way that we are living and working in Texas I am excited to be with you all today and with our terrific panel to talk about the trends that we are seeing and how These are accelerating In our in our cities and some of the questions that will address I think because you know in the future How will our cities be different? How are communities across Texas? Adapt to these changes. What will be the nature of our built environment? Are there downsides to these changes some good some bad? Let's uncut let's unpack that and understand the implications And then I think a question that many of us really care about in our communities Is how do we ensure that we're thinking about resiliency in the future and a more equitable and just opportunity for all Texans? To help us unpack these conversations these questions and conversations were joined by four outstanding guests today Who I'm really excited to to speak with and engage in a conversation with First we've got Matt Curtis. Matt is A former right-hand hand Of two past mayors here in Austin has decades of experience working on municipal initiatives And really understand sort of the best practices that are helping cities adapt to To the changing environment in 2017 Matt formed the smart city policy group really at this helping cities uncover the intersection between local Government in changes that we're seeing in the innovation economy matt. It's good to have you and thanks for joining us today We're also joined by michelle dipple michelle is the senior vice president And south central texas office leaders of nhntb a transportation infrastructure firm That offers solutions around transit and mobility She's also as many of you know a strong advocate for regional mobility issues She serves on the board of directors for the greater austin chamber of commerce And is a part of the regional mobility committee michelle. It's it's great to see you and great for joining us as well We are Also very lucky to have with us I'm charmilla Mu kerji, and I just butchered her last name. We've been after practicing it several times mortgilla is an executive ebp of planning and development at capital metro More than 20 years of decade of experience doing urban transportation planning an experience in the bay area As detroit and chicago Charmilla, it's great to have you and and look forward to your insights on transportation Is that's going to be a critical issue going forward? And then finally, um, we are very lucky to have joining with us today commissioner rodney ellis commissioner ellis is uh has served at houston community three times on city council 26 years as a state senator and now in his second term as county commissioner For this uh for harris county commissioner. It's great to have you We're also excited to have you because you are an lbj graduate As well. So it's good to good to have our panelists Joining us for today's conversation As a reminder you all we are going to take questions as eric can mention You can put those in the q&a function and we'll look through those as throughout the The panel moves forward and and then also address and address those at the end And if you've got questions, you can also follow a log on social media using the hashtag lbj future form So with that long introduction matt, let's start with you As we look across texas and trying to understand and survey the landscape, right? What the impacts that we've seen with coveted with the cause for racial justice and equity and in even thinking about the impact that that we've seen with natural disasters here in texas What's been the good and then what are some of the challenges that we see and and i'd like to start with the good What are some of the things that we're seeing that are positive Over the last course of the year that we may be seeing in our communities across the state No, it's incredible, right? I mean, I mean cities are in a great place cities are doing very well We're seeing cities grow and reach for new innovations And they're doing it at a rapid pace It's kind of shocking because you know a lot of people might hunker down during a pandemic like we just did But we're seeing cities make real investments in mobility innovations We just did something here in austin with prop a with the investing in incredibly needed and expansive mobility infrastructure Network here, but other cities as well large and small they're building they're doing more they're making things happen So I don't think texas cities did this lying down at all. We saw a great leadership From our big cities, but also small cities reach out for those needed changes that they could take advantage of during this time On the challenges front, you know, we certainly have one major challenge. It's going to impact us whether it's through transportation issues Our health care systems and other things and that's wellness We certainly saw a lot of statistics here recently about people who gained weight Might be you know drinking a lot of wine and eating a lot of ice cream During covet but for whatever reason Many people gained weight during this time Cities have a challenge with that going forward, you know, we need to make sure that we have a very healthy community We know you focus on well-being and wellness It means better access and better use of our transportation systems and our transit systems But it also just means a better more robust economic base from our own talent pool in these cities Yeah, yeah, I know I've drank probably my fair share of red wine this year Like many of you so Absolutely, and it's interesting that you mentioned health and wellness I think for many of us that have been in that economic development space, particularly, you know, my work I I had never I'm really married Public health and economic development initiatives together as much as I've done this year and thinking in my thinking As well. So I think that's a really important issue that will that will become Really more at the forefront of the way that we're sort of thinking about these issues You know takes us a pretty diverse state. We've got urban rule divides, right? I'm curious to get your thoughts You know, obviously larger cities have have done a lot of advancements even some of our smaller communities What's your take on the pandemic's impact on some of the more rural communities here in texas, perhaps? I mean, there's no denying. I mean, it's been a hit for everyone. It really has but You know, I think we certainly have seen Probably a significant change in in our economy. We all you know, I'm not saying anything We don't all know we've seen a lot of small businesses and a lot of restaurants take a real hit as well as other outlets But we've also seen a lot of innovation and people are trying to figure out how to get out of this well And from the county perspective when you look at rural texas counties I think they've done that very well and there's different organizations that you can look at to Give credit to but one thing I think over Overwhelmingly when you look at different texas counties In rural texas towns It's really just that innovative spirit and that drive for us to come out of this well and and we've seen that work So while it certainly has been a hit people have not let them let it be a hit that's kept them down So commissioner ellis you're on the ground in houston. You're dealing with these issues every day On the forefront. How is this playing out in harris county? Well, we obviously have had tremendous challenges, you know from a rain event To the traditional hurricane events that we have is always good to point out that harvard was a rain event Hurricane did not hit us here. But it was a devastating event and who would thought we'd end up with ice storm uh, so tremendous challenges tremendous growth uh, I think that I knew leadership Here in the city and in the county even before the george floored tragedy that has been a renewed And quantitative focus on equity And in ways that you could measure it. So after harvey We did pass a 2.5 billion dollar bond package But we did put equity language in the order to do the bond package And we have adopted principles. So we will consider a number of factors including social vulnerability So we don't continue to let those same areas that have flooded historically continue to flood and that challenges Would follow them through on it in part because there are so many systems put in place That reward property value over people So we end up tracing what our local money federal money to a great extent And federal money that went to the state Where they have no equity guidelines because it's hard for us to pay for it all on our level Health care is a big a tremendous challenge particularly for us here in the houston region where we have the The greatest medical center in the world now, you know, we text and say that about everything And this one really do have the largest I won't say the greatest but the largest at texas medical center And that's great for people who live in the neighborhood that I live in now But it's not so great for people who live in the neighborhood I came out of When I decided to go to the lbj school as a tremendous inequality In that gap The inequity index is growing tremendously Mm-hmm. It was growing during the best of times and it's growing even more so during the worst of times Good news on horizon. I'm very pleased that president bite and passed a record Relief package in my judgment Something on par with what fdr did And obviously that was tremendous inequity in that because if you look like me It only applied to you That she had to be able to go to college to get a home if you could go to a black school that would take you Or if you could go to a black neighborhood that legally you could move into if you were Hispanic the same way Or you had to fake it But and now bite and uh, uh what he did with that relief packages in many ways On par with lbj's war on poverty That obviously in some ways was Side track with the expense of of a war Uh, and now we're gonna have a very substantive infrastructure program. I was on the call with demilicon A zoom with demilicon institute this morning. You still got that same issue of equity We got to find a way that equity is more than a six letter word Yeah, and that's what it is with most people that they really treat like a four letter word if you catch my drift Just got me. Uh, so everybody's for it. It's like everybody quotes king's speeches But they wouldn't have been around if they were live When it was time to be on the right side. Yeah, I mean, I think I think to your point I mean one of the things that if everyone's talking about equity I mean almost every call that i'm on with cities and counties across the country Texas to portland, or again where I was on this morning to new york everyone's talking about equity But the real question I think is where the rubber meets the road. How does it get beat? Built into our economic development agendas. How does it get built into our transportation agendas our land use? And those are things that I want to explore a little bit deeper and and that that is a great segment To our to the conversation and I want to start by going back to Starting with land use transportation and then going back to this larger economic development agenda Michelle obviously we know that the pandemic has broad impact from remote work, right? 30% of us are doing it now 30% of us will probably do it Have an opportunity to do it after it as as has been mentioned before for many of us We know that it is a a luxury perhaps and we have to think about how to do that in a much more equitable way but What are the ramifications that we see? From remote work as it reflects maybe on our built environment going forward because there's a lot of Death to cities right now out there in terms of the narratives your thoughts or perspectives on that I think my opinion is is probably a little bit different than what you're hearing We are We have we have traditionally been an in-office environment, right? We're engineers and planners and we we like to roll out the roll flots and you know Hunker down over the plans and and work together in sort of a collaborative Atmosphere and that piece of it has changed dramatically We were working together one day and 24 hours later. We thought we went home for two weeks And we had a we had a band-aid for technology and then we got better and better and better as the year went on at Making use of the technology And so our our productivity wasn't impacted But I feel like maybe our innovation has suffered a little bit because we don't have access to people in the same way and so While I have 25 I'm here in the office as you can see And I have about 25 of my staff are here in the office And I have about 75 of my staff who have said they're ready to come back At least in some form or fashion. They miss their people And they're tired of the Brady bunch screens and they're ready to Roll out the roll flots and do the do the pencil thing that our engineers like to do so While others are looking at shrinking their footprint. I'm looking at expanding the commercial market is Is great right now, right? Everybody's will go in home and thinking I'm going to shrink and my thought is It's a great time to expand We need to have more space. We need more space for our people So we can be a little bit more distant while we're at work And we need bigger conference rooms so we can accommodate the need for a little bit more space I don't know how if that's a long term or short term, but right now that's what we're looking at and You know really with the intent of improving innovation and conversation by keeping us close Will we be more flexible? Absolutely. We've learned that we can be we can afford to be a little bit more flexible and we will Yeah, I mean, I think from the workplace the flexibility on the edges or something that's important But one of the things I think we know is that innovation and ideas still happen with the idea of people and enterprises coming together I I do want to talk about local innovation So if we do see a surplus of commercial space in markets, just if we're if we're thinking about this prices are a little bit lower How does this maybe start to help us address Some in in some innovative ways our land use policy Maybe the way we're thinking about affordable housing any sort of big ideas that you would say these are issues I really care about and I got this really Out of the box idea that we should be considering around these issues any thoughts on that I'd say you know for the last year I think everybody's been saying we're gonna all be in our only Back in single-person vehicles again, and we're never going to ride transit and nobody wants to be close to each other ever again and then Um, you know the lights come up just a little bit and you see people rushing to the parks And everybody is trying to get back together as quickly as possible. So I really I I see it as a short term issue rather than a long-term one and the longer term issue is that our urban Cores need to be more dense We we need to be more dense the suburbs exist, you know that ship is sailed We're going to continue to have suburbs people are still going to want to live further out. It's personal preference Um, but we need to allow for density. We need to plan for it We don't plan for it and I'm sure you know commissioner Ellis will probably Talk a little bit about the fact that he can't zone And and what are the challenges for zoning? Um, we we have to think about it We can't let developers and permit applications drive our urban planning Yeah, Stephen. I was just going to add that you know, yeah I was just going to add that you know, also part of the issue not just the changing use of a eight to five Your lifestyle. What about a changing tempo? I mean people are starting to talk about this hybrid approach Where maybe they work different hours varied hours people are going to be using their space at a different At a different rate I will tell you from the innovation perspective and looking at cities one I know we know we're going to come back it later on and talk more about the economy But one issue that's up significantly is one specific type of travel That I work on which is short-term rentals and vacation rentals in the united states depending on the market It's up 50 to 200 percent So just imagine this if people aren't going to go back to hotels because of the common areas and the common spaces The common dining facilities and so on if they're not going to go back to hotels as quickly But they're showing a great interest in business travel Using urban multi-family short-term rentals type, you know professionally managed properties What are what are we going to do in these cities where you know, maybe that's not allowed or we've traditionally You know, maybe shyed away from allowing that type of activity by based different land use codes If that's how business travelers are going to travel we have to accommodate them So it's different tempos based on the industry and based on that preference you were talking about Yeah, I mean, I think the the impact in the discussion around short-term rentals and what that looks like an economies is something we know is Many cities are grappling with and I think that debate only intensifies going forward frankly, right in terms of the way that looks You know, I think the other thing when we talk about the future of work and the future of development Much of our advice to cities and mayors has been around helping them think about downtown's experiences now, right? So maybe where you and I would have all gathered Monday through Friday five days a week to work Maybe the the office experience becomes more of a curated experience We're spending less time there to do the collaboration to do the innovation And some of the more routine work is happening on other places And so I think that is absolutely Something that has implications on the way that we think about land use the way we think about our short-term rentals Perhaps and even transportation and so sure. Melo. That's where I want to go with You're you are a transportation one of our transportation gurus here in the city And giving the work that you do at capital metro I saw you shaking your head when you said nobody's uh folks We were saying that less people are using transit. You kind of shake your head. There was a new york times article recently I think I pointed to you all as we were prepping for this saying that That that transit levels are down. The question are will they come back? Um people are not necessarily scared about going to the office or actually scared about public transportation Actually, I think if you talk to mayors and transit authorities, that's one of the things that jumps out What impact do you see around transit that stick going forward? And Let's start there and then we'll talk about big investments So steven since you mentioned new york city, I'm going to start with that in another new york city example Just to kind of offer a counterpoint. I love it. New york city also just Did this revolutionary? It's been going on over over a decade. The conversation was happening about congestion pricing coming into urban core and now Under the current administration, it's going to have expedited environmental review to have that pilot be implemented It's going to offer and just to think of think about it in a different perspective how we monetize congestion And that one billion dollar in tolling revenue is going to help Supplement 15 billion dollar transit debt financing new york city is planned to undergo so I think we should need to take a pause and kind of talk in terms of Commissioner Ellis mentioned equity. It's become a buzzword But it what what does that really mean in terms of public transportation? I'm going to start with a cap metro example Starting small here locally So we had right before covet we saw Double digit growth in our commuter routes and our metro express routes overcrowding on rail and then we also saw 18 growth in last year in ridership up until march And then there was a 2.4 million system one ridership that went down to about 1.3 We're still serving 1.3 million riders on a regular basis And the other part that I want to talk about is Sitting aside the larger climate change equation and how different cities and municipalities are going to make that their own personalized Agenda and how that's going to get framed regionally and locally I want to talk about how what we did to support Our essential trips our essential riders Five of our routes are carrying about 60 of our passengers in the midst of covet These are folks that don't have the latitude to work from home So we put our resources our operational resources to where our greatest need exists I think that's equity that's equity in action And we're going to continue to see that the other example and that maybe sort of cross A cross between intersection between innovation that Matt pointed out Our metro access our demand response Provided 860,000 meals delivered to most vulnerable of our populations in austin and central texas That to me it trips not taken so we are providing we're Transitioning from public transit provider to mobility solutions provider And then for another segment of our ridership we did metro bikes, uh, which is as for as a first and last month to me offering options thinking out of the box and just thinking Kind of matching our resources to where needs exist. That's where we're going to see public transit succeed So chameleons i'm listening to your comments It seems to me that maybe one of the things that the pandemic has forced an agency like yours Where we tend to think sometimes think about our transit agencies as maybe slow moving large Bohemath organizations that are kind of rarely slow to to transition What what i'm hearing from you is that this pandemic is that the pandemic has really forced organizations like capital metro To be somewhat innovative in the way that it's servicing its customers being responsive to the issues that That were that we're living through at the time. Is that fair to say? Absolutely, it's no longer business as usual. I mean we are under The leadership our leadership is very dynamic our president and ceo has great vision Very equity focused and I think as an agency we rose up to the challenges And I think we are starting to see the results of that. We are focusing on equity now And we are focusing on transformational investment a generational investment with prop day And I think community is listening and responding to it. So I think it goes hand in hand if you ask me So for many of last question About about capital metro particularly here in austin and then we'll we'll open it up for others Is that I know that many of my students that are coming to the lbj school across the country are very excited to come here Because of the investment the city is making in project connect. They want to study transportation policy They want to think about a changing urban environment. I mean, we're kind of an interesting microcosm for that here in central texas As we think about project connect how has That project may be been reshaped by the pandemic or has it been reshaped? Are there are there things about Future planning for that large-scale investment that may be different because of some of the trends that we're seeing with the pandemic perhaps So I would answer that a little bit differently. I think uh, co vid is going to be measured in months but prop a and project connect And the progress and the transformational investment that it is the impact of that would be felt by generation. So I co vid impact is Felt greatly in our operations and how we are addressing and being more agile and responding to the challenges But it would not affect In this in same way the project that's being built for generations to come So I would say there's not a direct translation What we are doing is I think it city of austin in cat metro Through austin transit partnership had made a tremendous effort in placing Financial putting money where our mouth is it's 300 and 300 million dollar anti displacement measures speak to that And I think that probably came out And felt in a time where equity was on everyone else like all of our minds But in terms of design decisions, I wouldn't think that that's it's going to have an immediate effect. Okay, commissioner ellis Harris county's an interesting place. It's it's it's one of the most dynamic interesting places to study land use and transportation and the country for lots of different reasons Love to get your thoughts on on on trends that you're seeing and how land use and transportation is kind of being shaped in Excuse me in harris county She'll point it out And we are the largest unzoned city in the world Uh, we also have the interesting dynamic of having more people in unincorporated I think that's right harris county than you have in the city houston. So the largest city in texas now is something called unincorporated Harris county, which is akin to the wild wild west because the legislature does not give counties ordinance making power We have to get permission to do it. So we do have to think regionally You know, I think in texas our system are putting together Metropolitan planning organizations and cogs has been outdated It was drafted in 1965 The maps for our cogs were pretty much drawn When john comily was governor So I was talking to kirk watson the other night, you know Former senator the mayor of austin is here in houston now. He was happy to be the other day And he was talking about his experience when he was in austin So you you go and have these meetings In our case in harris county, you know, I guess I have 1.2 million people I represent In my precinct five million in county and you set up this regional board And we have two representatives from the county two from the city county five million city 2.3 million people and i'm voting with my friends Who represent parallel? I don't know 10 20 000 people How in good conscience do they take into account The population that we in the city of houston have to bring in dollars for the region But when it's time to vote where you put up, oh, we just had a big fight We fight with text dot about Putting a freeway wider than the widest one in north america certain parts of it run through downtown If you wider than the katie freeway, that's the widest one. So it's a big challenge And then you have to fight the cultural wars going on in austin Where you have the legislature essentially declaring war on urban entities On our cities and our counties and most of us now live in urban areas. We have to coexist Uh houston has such a large footprint. We have to coexist when our suburban partners even in within the city limits And you got to have some lens of equity We don't want I don't want to call the name of the normal city you think about the motor city I just won't call the name out But you can't just go build continue to build highways toll roads freeways Let the core of the inner city Fall apart So, I mean we're thinking about it. We we just stopped the item or we were County offices out to the suburbs and instead i'm advocating we buy one of these skyscrapers That may not make it And put those retrofit the building and put those offices downtown Michelle most of the architects and contractors want to do a new building like that one you in You got me But I don't I don't want a lot of those that have been built to go belly up So we're thinking and talking. Yeah, so for the panel then just a broad question to open it up to to any of you So commissioner ellis raises a really interesting point You know texas has has long um, we're nine and ten of us live in urban areas metro areas now We at the lbj school just released a report with the the kender institute and our friends at the bush institute looking at an an urban metropolitan agenda for the state of texas, but it is a As someone's who's been here now as a born again texan back for two years Look, you know born here raises the texan went away for 20 years and came back and have joined at the lbj school An urban agenda and an urban message for state like texas is really An urban agenda is still a large it is a it is a heavy slog How do we change the mindset in a state like texas? To to to recognize that we are not the wild wild west anymore that we need to make investments in our urban communities And our cities and our land transportation and our land use policies What's needed to to change the dynamic for that in a state like texas I'll just jump in real quick and just mention that I think it's always been funny that state legislators or our federal delegation when they come back We'll talk about how much they love austin or they love dalas or they love houston but then they want to create regulations or support to Political agendas that are not friendly to these cities. They'll talk about how vibrant our economies are and how important they are But they don't want to support it. It doesn't make sense So in my mind I come back time and time again thinking if we can tell the economic impact story If we can show how much the these cities lend themselves to becoming drivers for our state economy That that would change their minds, but beyond that, uh, it starts to become an issue I think where we dive into uh, political ideologies that we have to change as well Yeah, other thoughts or perspectives on this I think we have to get the business community To step up. This is a place that's driven by business even for people who are afraid to even say Climate change we can still remain the energy capital of the world But focus more on clean energy. I mean that was a conscious decision to take a route. We took instead of electric vehicles 100 years ago. Uh, so I think it's thinking innovative Well, obviously at the end of the day there are consequences to elections And what we have now is this polar divide Where if I just follow what the ultra left Uh of my side of the political equation wanted me to do It'd be very unproductive. I hope I've not done that But many of my friends on the other side are just helicopter captive reasonable people Captured by a small thin sliver Living in yesterday Uh, and the federal government plays some role I think in the new biting package or transportation package. There's some clear things that will offer tremendous incentives For cleaner energy and to focus on climate change and climate justice issues And I hope we don't take the ostrich in the Uh ground head and sand approach that we took on Affordable health care expansion. I mean still baffles me to think of all my years at Austin How you could turn down that much money? You know the only six states in america by the way that are predominantly Minority we want up. Yeah, we will force you got me. I mean, it's just reality Yeah, so just getting people focused on science and not so much. Yeah, I mean your point about climate justice, right? I mean being the energy capital of the world I think one of the things that that I've written about with with senator former senator wasan and others is that We are the energy capital of the world. Why are we not embracing? The future of clean tech as a way to grow our economy that is a a smart business solution And it's also makes great sense for ensuring our residents can participate in this economy We can lead as well as address some of our our climate issues I mean, I think to to two of your points, um, and then and we'll go on to the conversation um, you know, one of the things that I that um that is interesting is that just as um, as you mentioned there is a a conservative Dialogue that maybe shortens our our seas. I also a lot of times thought maybe even the progressives are killing our cities too That we forget sometimes about the middle and what we can do when we bring the public and private together around civic innovation and for a state like texas That really in a sense builds itself as being pro-business a free market. Why are we not? Engaging on local solutions with our business community to your point commissioner to really ensure that we are thinking about how we can create a shared agenda Going forward, which really allows us to start to to do exactly what what I think all of you have suggested before is Move beyond the word equity, but then actually say, well, how do you start to and deploy that in transportation planning in land use planning and as well as in our economic development initiatives and so with that Our last sort of bit of our conversation before we move to audience questions is is around this question of of a building a more equitable and resilient texas A lot of us are remote working. We know that that's put strains on a lot of women, for instance some a lot of our felt our women colleagues are Extending the workforce to take care of children and and bearing the the the forefront of that great research From my colleague vicki de soto and her colleagues that have done a lot of that Looking at that we've seen the health disparities of covet on Our black and brown neighbors. We've seen the impact of The recent winter storm in terms of in terms of what we've seen the challenges that's put on our infrastructure um How do we move forward around an economic development agenda that starts to to really address these issues? If you were commissioner, uh, commissioner ellis saying these are two or three things that we should be doing as key priorities From an economic development perspective to build a more inclusive resilient economy in texas. What would those be? I think we ought to embrace our diversity You know, california passed legislation that mandates that we diversify corporate boards By the way, it'll be challenged in court. Uh, nasdaq is looking at delisting A publicly traded companies if they don't integrate those boards put more women Uh, put more people of color on them. I think cap metro, you know, I I trends authorities during the disparities today So they can have a program to grow our women-owned and minority-owned businesses Hey, this is a diverse place and it's not going to change So to my friends, I look when I went to the senate here. It's narrow. She said give their little speech about uh We're coming Where they're here Get over it. You got me. Uh, it's just not going to change and no matter how many rules you put in place You delay the inevitable you got to focus on training That next generation so they are as interested in entrepreneurialism as I am. Hey, I'm a I'm a liberal democrat I registered for nafta and richard recommended the government of mexico hire me To help line up votes in congress Of this is when it was it was not as controversial as it is now Met you too young. I registered as a foreign agent. I had to point out to people not a secret agent I'm a foreign agent. I was representing the government of mexico for our largest trading partner Papers gave me hell. I used to tell them if I've been representing england They would ask for a photograph of the queen But i'm representing the brown people across the board who happen to be our largest trading partner So i'm saying one can be a progressive democrat, but also focus On business issues, but we got to ensure it Integrate the money It's the same people running it who always ran So i would always say, you know what local innovation I want to go to michelle and charmela as well in this question because I think it's an important question to hit All of you to get your perspective. What's your thought matt? I mean just local innovation I mean, I think part part of it and the commissioner was just speaking to it I I've always said that our side of the dial was always the party of job creation I mean some of the greats of Of the democratic party, you know, we're great job creators But somehow or another there's been elements of this side of the dial that have seemed to shy away from creating a stronger economy While at the same time there's this political disparity on either side or this tribalism on either side Not wanting to work together. So my thought for being innovative. We have to start working together We have to talk about the health of the community Which means better access to more affordable housing better access to greater transit options more robust transit solutions And at the same time growing our economy and it all works together Michelle, what's your thoughts? I have a couple of words that keep coming to mind and the first one is intentional You have to do it on purpose and the second one is required and you know, I see the The justice 40 initiative as setting the expectation for requirements And attaching those requirements to funding Right. So if you attach it to the money then things tend to change to your point commissioners If you make it required Integrate those boards, you know, make things happen require that they happen until it becomes a natural occurrence Um, you know, I think the the justice 40 expectations are going to be You know, and a serious impact. We're seeing it already D.o.t. Is asking for infagrants to include equity and requiring that They show benefits for underserved communities in their in their grant applications So if if the money is going to be tied to that outcome and the benefits are going to suddenly I don't know take take a higher priority because it's required So, you know, we want to get to the point where requirements aren't Required right you want to get there because it's the right thing to do but In the in the beginning, I think attach it to the money and and it helps project connect is gonna I think benefit from The anti-displacement strategies that that Austin is putting into place I think that's going to be a huge opportunity to show benefits to communities I think that carrot and stick approach makes a lot of sense Stephen went when I was at the lbj school I guess my kind of coisa thesis project was looking at the transition from lbj's categorical funding Well, you put strings on it because you were trying to reduce poverty To cities and counties and states want to block grant approach But there's a tendency to go and take the federal money and do things that they would have done with their own money Perfect example. I'll be quiet when I was on city council Had a brilliant harvard educated afro panamanian guy wanted to get a new dog pound He wanted to pay for it with cdbg money And he had all these charges to show a disproportionate percentage of the stray dogs will come in from low-income black And latino neighborhoods and coming from the lbj school having been on pro probation I remember thinking what lbj would say What doctor if it's a stray dog How in the hell do you know where it came from by definition that killed it? Well, why would anybody in their right mind Want to pay for a dog pound with poor people's money? So the fads I think even the state and cities you got to people don't just do the right thing Because they want to do it. Yep. You got to have measures And you got to have some way to enforce it Or we'll still be singing we have a dream Or we shall overcome 30 years from now. Yeah So really any comments on this on this from a transportation or land use perspective? In terms of I mean because I mean land use ride and transportation Are at the nexus of the way that we we can really address equity issues thoughts thoughts Yeah, absolutely transit and land use especially when we are poised to bring in high capacity transit in austin I think we cannot Focus or underscore more the need to have diversity of housing in city of austin and To to accommodate when we talk about woman leaving workforce When we talk him talk about commute issues how long it's going to take us to come to urban core I think we really need to understand that and build build in choice in our urban Housing as well. So it needs to really have Flexibility to have more density in urban urban core Have the missing middle that it's been talked about and it's time to introduce that And at the same time suburbs will be there people will have that choice to be able to live out there It's a personal choice. And I think we need to introduce and have that idea that rural and Urban living are not At odds with one another. I mean rules are urban urban living They could coexist and with choices, but we need to make the right choices for the right context Yeah, and I think that's a very important focus and on the regulatory framework. I would just say that We would see equity and resiliency Truly rise above the rest. I think covid gave us a pause It's time to rethink some of the things we were doing wrong for a while. It just highlighted them. It always existed It's just highlight. It highlighted the deficiencies And I think it's our we can take that chance and to Just do a better job That's right. I mean, I think one of the things to take about one of the key takeaways I hope the audience takes away from this panel is that the reality is covet didn't necessarily create new trends It accelerated and highlighted a lot of the things that we were already seeing happening in our communities And it shined on hopefully A light on some of the inequities that we have that would not be creating an opportunity for us to start to maybe address those Um, I do want to now start to take some questions from the audience And I know if you've got questions, I'd encourage you to include them in the q&a function um, and I'll turn this first question maybe um over to both Sure, I'll let you and michelle Because it relates I think to to this question around density Um, it is from ryan and ryan asked us to think about and add maybe talk about the need To create zoning beyond single families. I you know Do plexus try plexus, you know, all those types of things. What types of innovation is needed? around the way we think about Residential land use in our communities to maybe help start to address some of these challenges charmella Michelle punted I'm curious you'd I've talked about this. I'm curious. This is a this is a tough question, right? I mean, it's a question that a lot of our cities are grappling with for sure and It is it is one that, you know, a lot of our communities continue to punt the ball Down, you know, kick the can down the street a bit, but it is it is front and center For a lot of our community knows definitely an issue in austin right now active issue in austin right now So, you know, even even odd mid-sized cities are talking about this this Just incredible dis explosion of the cost of housing in their towns But you know to use austin as an example I can show you plenty of two ones that might be available for today for about nine hundred and fifty thousand dollars We've got to be building different sizes of homes We've got to be building a variety of homes and a variety of mix of housing while we're expanding this transit system We've just got to do it. Sorry. Sure. Well, and it To downtown. Yeah, absolutely. I think mad did the perfect prologue for this and all I would say Just kind of extending my thought on diversity of housing It really needs to come with we need to have realistic expectations of what it's like to live downtown Versus eventual midtown in soco and further out I think we need to have realistic expectations of what the true parking needs are In 2021 as opposed to what's been in the past and how we have raised we have been raised so I I would just say that It needs to be a choice made by the community I mean carrots and sticks are good But this is austin's opportunity to decide what it wants to be when it's fully grown up And I think there needs to be a lot of community conversations out kind of outlining the impacts of having Seven floors of parking in downtown Um, and then build the stories above and talk about affordable housing in the same breath Some of those floors could actually be affordable housing affordable housing, right? And this may be where this may be Do the right thing and this may be a topic where our um our progressive nimbies and I say that um because I um I I recently led a panel a couple years ago a year ago at the tribuna our progressives killing our cities We're even our progressive nimbies perhaps need to come to the table to realize that we actually need more density Not just in um in underserved or distressed neighborhoods But also in our neighborhoods that are connected to amenities and access on transit corridors In our areas that have got decent good schools those types of things and so we have to think about density across cities Not just in particular zones. Perhaps, right? Maybe the obama administration did have a effort Uh a rule in place to stop us from concentrating affordable housing in Those segregated neighborhoods. So you give those people access to better quality life in texas, of course that was back That was repealed during the trump era. I hope that the bike administration will put it back in and then in texas We have this rule where your state representative has to sign off to get tax credits Uh to go and it it is it's ridiculous and by the way, although we don't have zoning We still have rules here in houston and harris county If somebody's on a metro line, why do you have a requirement for all those parking spaces? Well, that's nuts That gets to one of our second questions in the uh in the in the q&a and that was Thoughts on mandatory parking requirements as as we look and build out more dense urban environments thoughts or anybody have a quick snippet on parking I would just say we have to think differently. There are these great innovations out there changing uh commercial Access to commercial parking so getting amazon trucks and that sort of thing out of our dense urban course out of the lane of traffic Into a quick parking spot There's a variety of other new technologies that are keeping us From driving around the block looking for parking if we can stop that then we can let buses go through much more quickly But more than anything we need to get out of the cars ourselves Which just means we need to be investing more in transit and those housing The the different housing options the mix of housing options That are needed along those transit routes change the rules. What about that old school technology a bicycle? That goes back to that health and wellness piece that matt talked about at the very beginning But I would also say that you know, I think the the investment in Program like project connect will also lead to those behavioral changes that I think you were Implying needed to to happen matt and that's you know, not all of it is planning for today It's planning for 10 15 20 years and how we're going to behave in that time frame not necessarily to your point charmilla How we were raised but how we want to be I would reduce the park or go out if we don't have as many places to park. Maybe chamilla can get us on mass transit Exactly. Thank you charmilla mass transit. That is why mass transit is not going to go away We need to connect communities better in a more affordable manner and project connect the lines that are going to be built They also those are only Three or four or five lines major high capacity lines, but they got to be connected by Best feeder bus system that you really don't look at schedule to get on them So we need to make transportation choices more viable more affordable But then people need to live near them to take full advantage of it And make sure I think it gets to one of the other questions that we have in the in the point You know, maybe we'll just tack it on and that as the sort of the distribution of the way We think about how we live and work right in terms of everything happening All work happening in an urban core and all living happening outside And so one of the things I think you're suggesting is a more integrated approach in the way that we live work and commute throughout our regions and and maybe that that for texans Is is a um will require some some a mind shift But it's something that we that we I think may see as our city's become more More urban more dense and as we have to try to accommodate much of the the population Increases that are coming to our metropolitan areas perhaps I think also pandemic notwithstanding we can't address climate change if we keep building out I mean I have to explain to people about impervious cover all of the toll roads we built I don't think the good lot planned for us to necessarily have five million people In harris county, but if we were going to have five million we were doing it over again It wouldn't have sprang way out everywhere And then you got to have all that impervious cover, which means when it rains You can't get rid of the water And you got to pay for it. You got me and we certainly are a very low tax mentality Uh community statewide as a people so so matt I want to follow up on your comment or question about short-term rentals You made at the beginning of our discussion and a question was posed in the q&a session If we were to go down this route of increasing more short-term rentals in our in our cities and our communities to To be more reflective of maybe business travel trends that we're seeing What do you think are the implications for that as it relates to affordability? Can the two coexist in cities and what what's the balance there? No, certainly, you know, we did a study a few years ago in austin and we Ban non-owner occupied short-term rentals because there were 400 of them And we were going to become immediately more affordable. Well 400 is a small apartment complex. We did not become more affordable and the traveling Workers are not able to use those types of properties. Now. That's a much more nuanced and long conversation What we are seeing with travelers that are using this activity in cities since today's conversation about cities Is in more multifamily commercial mixed-use properties highly professionalized sometimes getting a hotel designation for those floors But it's typically 0.01 of the housing stock in any city So we're talking about such a small number What I fear is that if we're pointing our fingers at that as a the boogeyman for why our cities are unaffordable We're not solving the problem. We have a much bigger problem. We don't have a real affordability strategy to build needed workforce and affordable housing Traveling workers and families are using that model for for staying in cities, especially if they're staying for a longer period of time Look, I mean, I'm a guy with a five-year-old We can't put our child to bed in a hotel room and then go anywhere except for the bathroom to watch our iPads for three hours Until it's time to for us to go to bed You got to have an apartment with another room So that that's why a lot of new models have popped up So it assuages the concerns Of the neighbors and the nimbus that you had mentioned if these properties aren't in The single family residential zones as much But oftentimes you're finding them now in more commercial mixed use multi-family zones And I think that's the solution but again if we're pointing at that as the boogeyman This tiny minority of housing inventory in our in our in our cities We're not solving the real problem. Which is we need a lot more housing a lot more housing So last question for you all we're almost at time And it's a a smash of several of the questions that are in the q&a And a question that I wanted to propose to you all as well Our friends from the Texas legislature are in in session. They're in austin. They're meeting We have talked a lot about trends that are impacting the way we live work and play in our communities Um, what would be your one key priority issue that the Texas legislature could do for texas cities What would be the one thing that they could do for texas cities as From a legislative standpoint this legislative session I'll give you a second to think about it. I mean, I'll just That you're the eager beaver I'm sorry. I just wanted to have said and I think commissioner ellis would agree with this There's no been no greater time for american cities and texas cities than this time because of the administration That we have we have great federal funds that are coming in a huge infrastructure package that we're expecting And then of course our covet relief package. We have so many mayors or former mayors who are Secretaries of the in the administration. It's a great time for local government leaders So I would say for the legislature to work with local government leaders to create real strategies on issues that we're talking about today Like the economy transportation and housing. Okay, that's great. Michelle your thoughts Of course, you know you you outed me as a transportation person. So of course, I'm going to have a transportation priority, but right now both the house and the senate have Compatible bills put forward by the transportation chairs to allow the state to bond against the mobility fund and You know, we when we have gaps in funding from our traditional revenue sources That is a backup. It's also more flexible and you can use it for more than just roads So I think that's an excellent priority for the legislature as well Get out of the road building business and get into the transit building business, right? I mean that is that's a huge huge issue for the state I would say we need to be in both. We need to be in both Those roads and build transit fair enough fair enough The the urbanism me maybe leans a little bit the other way But fair enough So really your thoughts on that question So two-fold one of them is a little bit of an extension of what michelle said. I really think This is this is time with four major urban Four major cities in texas in growing urbanizing population the way I would say that This is really time to think transportation differently in texas And have a true multimodal approach. We would need roads We definitely would need transit to have them coexist better and plan in a more integrated way When you build a highway think about t-ramps when you transit ramps to have better access to multimodal hubs I think we need to think in terms of solving the broader solutions Look at the bigger problem and come together and not have Such partisan debate about how we get there And who's on the right who's on the left? I think that that's one thing the other thing I would talk about texas is Kind of economic success recipe may look very different from other states. We don't have to Follow californian model exactly we can learn from it Um anti-displacement measure Is an outstanding and unique step in the right direction that many californian cities were not able to do that at the right time so I think public private partnership to Fit in fill in the gaps where public funding Has has a deficit. It's also another way and to encourage that how we incentivize that All of those will come together. So I don't have one request I have a pot of request to consider. Got it. I love it. Um and commissioner you have the last last word on this for us These were all good suggestions and many of them Micro as chamele said I back up and take the global view in terms of a macro issue Because most of us at some point will entail participation in our democracies I I think the greatest existential threat to the future texas Would be those voter suppression bills that are passing through Uh, it will change the whole tenor and tempo of most of what all of us do And in in my judgment, I I'm encouraging our business leaders to speak up it is akin to What martin of the king says the chavez and so many of us I've bought To end and you know now everybody's quoting. I have a dream and singing. We shall overcome But they wouldn't have done it very few were there when king was around I just think that the image Of uh, you just think a bull corner. Uh, I can't think of the The most important thing they can do will be to kill those bills I'll get to the courthouse as quickly as possible. I'll hope that the united states, uh Senate, uh Passes voting rights legislation overcome it are the cultural wars are going to be even worse Because it's set up. So only a small sliver of us will participate in our democracy Yeah My friends, thank you for a terrific conversation. I've enjoyed spending the last hour with you. It's been Really a privilege and learning from each of you for the last bit of time I will now turn the program over to um to our friend, um, eric For just some final thoughts comments wrap up I Thanks, even and thank you so much a scene panel for sharing your time and insights with us this afternoon Uh for those watching us today for not already a member of the future forum I strongly encourage you to sign up on our website at lbjfutureforum.org Members enjoy first access to events and happy hours networking opportunities and benefits at the lbj presidential library Thank you all again, and I hope to see you again soon