 How do you keep the number of cards down if you are mapping a journey over a number of years? And this was a question by Katrina. Thanks Katrina for asking this question. I think this question is quite interesting because there are two perspectives on this question. One perspective is that the journey covers a number of years. Another perspective is that we have a journey map that we are working with year after year. Let's answer them both. Yeah, I think that the first thing is that if it covers many years, it's again that we have to summarize it. It's again going back to what is then a level 2 in this map, even if it's over a couple of years. I mean, I've been in projects where we were mapped from people getting their first job to people dying, I mean in pension. And it wasn't more than on the level 2, it was 12 cards, I think. And that's a number of years. It's like 70 years, you know, 50 years, maybe 50. Yeah, something like that. That's one of the questions. The other question is, okay, we're going to do this over a couple of years. We're going to work on this map for several years. And I was really happy when I saw this because that's a huge challenge that people do journey maps and then they leave them. They don't keep on working with them. And if this was the interpretation with this question, I'm super happy that we got it because then you just don't just add things to your map over and over again or more and more stuff. It's it's just as important to take away things to I think that people in their mentality and internally in organizations, they think that now we're going to work customer centric now we're going to add even more things. But it's really good to have the mentality that what could we take away? So over the years take away things. I mean look look for instance on on this disruptor industry disruptors. What are they really good at? Narrowing down their customer journeys. They take away simplifying simplifying Yeah, simplifying things simplifying how it is to open a bank account how it is to do buy something on the net how it is to Order a taxi or whatever it could be. So over the years simplify and simplify that should be the That's really interesting like perspective that over the number of years your number of cards in the ideal situation should actually go down. Yes that That's that's a really Really cool take away. I Don't think a lot of companies are ready for that yet but If you see that the number of cards is actually Rowering that could mean that your first attempt to map a journey wasn't complete. It could be but at some point you should sort of reach a maximum Complete less and from there You shouldn't try to add more. No No, because The the competitor you have that makes the most relevant journey it doesn't has to be Short but it will in most industries be shorter But the one who makes the the most relevant journey, they will be the winners. Yeah in your industry So it's a from most organizations. It says it's all about Taking away cards and That's I can I guess we're getting back to really the The essence and the core of journey mapping it helps you to focus on doing What adds value to the customer and eventually to your business? Yes, removing? Removing friction or improving the existing experience And and a journey map just helps you to focus helps you it literally points out what you need to do Yeah, yeah