 I do think that they're important because you do train different ranges of motion. They may be very similar, but they might be a little bit longer or like for a curl example, you know, in no lift you use your bicep like that. So you get to work your muscles across various range of motions, which is important. You're listening to Barbell Logic, brought to you by Barbell Logic Online Coaching, where each week we take a systematic walk through strength training and the refining power of voluntary hardship. You're listening to the Barbell Logic podcast. I am here with really my new co-host, Nikki Sims. You guys know her. Welcome to the show. This is only about the 25th time you've been on it. Well, this is different. I got some big overalls to fill now. Yeah, you are actually wearing overalls. They look great. I have three different kinds of overalls, so I was thinking about that today. You and Scott's, your leg length is about the same. Probably is. That's the same height. I had a great talk with Scott yesterday. It was a blast, a great phone call. We just, we haven't got to have very many just like fun phone calls lately. So it's been fun and it's been an honor to be able to have him on the show the last several years, and it'll still be cool to have him on the show here and there. So it's always nice when somebody ends up bowing out and stepping away and it's under wonderful circumstances and everybody's still great friends and he's still part of the block team. And so you will be on the show a lot. You are a natural sort of step in as co-host and you'll do some of these without me and I'll do some of them without you and we'll do a lot of them together. We got some fun things on the horizon for the podcast, which mostly we want to tease out. I teased out a little bit on Thursday's podcast. I think we've got some series coming, which are going to be really cool. And so people that listen to our Getting Started series or our MED series will be doing things similar to that. So I think the plan right now, maybe tease tease is to release it sort of Netflix style. So we release an entire series at once so that you can just binge listen all week. That's the best when you have to like clean your entire house or do a bunch of lawn work. I know. I know. I love it. Yeah. You listen to a lot of like murder mystery podcasts and right. Is that fair? Do you still listen to stuff like that? Not so much anymore. Yeah. Not a ton. But I do listen to a lot of books now. A lot of audibles. Yeah. I love audibles. I'm always listening to a couple of those. It's interesting. You there are several podcasts that I think that you turn me on to over the last several years. I think you turn me on to shit town. Was it was that one that which was fantastic? I think from the same does that from the same people that made cereal? And then what was the John one, the killer John or something dirty John? That's a great podcast. Yeah. It's great. Like the twist. You think that it came out of a book. Yes. And then what was the the one about the surgeon? Doctor Death. Oh my gosh. Doctor Death. That might have been the best series I've ever heard. So if you guys haven't listened, now it's not the Family Feel Good podcast series of the summer. Just FY. So if you're looking for an uplifting encouraging podcast, probably not it. Or if you put your spine in the hands of a surgeon any time coming in. That's true. Yeah. If you've got an upcoming surgery specifically involving your spine, it's probably not a great place to go. So we wanted to talk about one of the things we did over the last couple of weeks. You came out today at the house with Andrew and we just sort of brainstormed about things that would be fun to talk about that either we haven't ever talked about before or that we would like to revisit. And one of those things that I think we're kind of both passionate about right now and we're seeing a lot of this with our clients is training for hypertrophy and what we've learned from hypertrophy in our years of coaching. And I think what maybe most people are going to expect us to say today is probably not the direction we're going. And so as is sort of typical, what is the norm, conventional wisdom in whatever thing it is, once you kind of really dive in, you recognize that it's that's not usually the case or it's not always the case. And so it's not true that there can always be a blanket statement. That's exactly right. Although blanket statements are fun and and I am guilty of those quite often, but I would say that I would even make my experience as a coach for hypertrophy. I would I could almost make blanketed statements right now the opposite direction than what is conventional wisdom. So conventional wisdom for hypertrophy is lots of volume, specifically high rep sets of that's right. That's exactly right. And you have said in your training lately, you're in great shape right now. You're you're lean, you're jacked. You're a little bit beat up in some places, but you put on good muscle and you're lean and you look great. Actually, here's a great compliment. My 15 year old daughter said last night we were talking about she's working out. You're ready for Mexico. She's like, I want to look like Nikki Sims. Oh, she's like, that's the kind of person I want to look like. And she's got great genetics, mostly from Mama said, what are some of the things you've noticed over the past couple years of training that have really helped from a hypertrophy perspective, perspective that might not be what our listeners would be thinking that we would say. Well, this is interesting because I've been lifting for like 10 years, at least. But my body has changed significantly, like in the last 18 months, two years. And it's like, you know, I've been lifting with the barbell for that long. But in the last couple of years, like my arms were more developed. I have more abs, like my erectors are even bigger. And it's just like I actually look like I lift now. But the interesting thing is, and this is what we were talking about in Springfield, is that you have me doing sets of three all the goddamn time. All my workouts, like pretty much all my important lifts are sets of three or sets of two. And if it's a tough day, it's unfortunately sets of one. But like I hardly do sets of five. Like it's really very rare. And I only do like just bro stuff and high rep. Yeah. But I, I hypertrophied. You've hypertrophied. Thank you for carrying on that word after Scott. So yes, and I am currently, we are currently making you a hypertrophy to send to your house and put it on your mantle with a very muscular woman. So here's one of the things I've noticed about in my own training as well, but especially in the training of my, the coaching of my clients is that I still think volume matters for hypertrophy. However, my experience, more and more of my experience says that volume via frequency seems to work as well, if not better, than volume via high rep sets. Right. So if you think about, you're doing a lot of like six sets of three or even eight sets of three or. And that's, I think that's the important thing here is that it has to be heavy. It has to be heavy. But if you think about the actual total amount of work reps, you're still doing 18, 20, 24 work reps. You're just not doing it anymore. Three sets of eight, four sets of six, you're doing eight sets of three, six sets of four, things like that. And so it allows us to stay heavier with the weight and still get the same amount of volume in or you're deadlifting three times a week, which a lot of people don't do. That's a lot of deadlifting. Now you've got, you've kind of had kind of rough hips for a while. You might imagine I'm interested if do you think your hip sort of some of that hip impingement stuff is genetic via like have. Do you have family members that have hip problems? Or do you think it's more of a artifact of you're so long legged and have to bend over so much in a squat? So your hip has to close so much in a squat that your hips just kind of take a beating more than most people. Gosh, I'm really, I don't know of anybody in my family having hip problems, but they're also not squatting. Yeah, whereas all my family has hit problems. Oh, interesting. OK. Even the ones that the ones that squat and don't squat. And you have FAI. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. The hip, the hip stuff is new. So and it was after a period of time where I like asked you for more squat volume and you gave it to me and look what. OK, no, no, no. Yeah. So we we treat you not the same way we would treat an older person who can't squat as much. But for you, I think deadlift is still the primary driver of strength, just like it would be for most older populations. And so we get a lot of our extra work. We get a lot of our extra volume and our frequency from the deadlift for you more so than the squat. So you tend to do over the past several years, you've tended to still squat twice a week, not always heavy, often kind of alternating those. But it's interesting because the hypertrophy is still continued to come. And I think it's just because we just do a lot of sets of low reps, sets of three, sets of two, sets of four. And even a frequency like only three times a week that is interesting to like, I think, you know, bodybuilders or people who are really trying to do this hypertrophy, they'll want to lift five times a week or six times a week. They want to go times a week, but I pretty much only lift three times a week. So that's really interesting that it's still the frequency has to be there and it has to be heavy, but it's still a good amount of volume each time you do it. Yeah. So just to flesh that out a little bit, not only are you we talked about you deadlifting three times a week, you're actually just training three times a week. So systemically, you're just training Monday, Wednesday, Friday and have for a long time, a couple of years at least, right? At least a year. Yeah. And some of that is because you've been doing BJJ stuff on the off days, which is pretty stressful, although not strength stress, but it's pretty stressful. Right. I went this morning and one of the girls that I was rolling with, Deanna, if you're listening, she's she said something like, yeah, it's always just kind of some sort of risk to come to class. And I was like, oh, you know, totally like an emotional risk. It's always an emotional risk to come to class. So the other the other piece of this that I found it works really well. And this is what we've done with you. We've done it with Andrew Jackson, although Andrew actually gets more frequency in the big lifts the way you train in the way I'm training. And by the way, I'm not I don't need a pad on the back here, but I'm pushing on week six now of four days a week training. I haven't missed a single session. So I'm actually getting decently strong again and feel better, certainly feel much better about things. I'm old. This is a funny thing, guys. Matt will like just step into the gym and like bench press 225 and instant jacked, just instant jacked, like all these muscles that don't get trained or whatever as soon as they get a taste there. They're super weird. I was telling Jillian who's doing my nutrition. I was like, my body weight keeps going up and my waist keeps coming down. And she's like, that's what you want, right? And I was like, well, I don't know that I want to weigh 290 the rest of my life, but my waist is down like four and a half inches, which is quite a bit since over the last six weeks. And my body weight is up about six pounds, and that's not the goal. Like I'm I'm trying to eat, you know, subcaloric. But I mean, also, you know, I'm being I'm very, very consistent with things like protein shakes and creatine, things that that I can just tell my muscles are holding more water. But yes, so same thing. I have noticed as I get older, I especially I cannot do heavy sets, especially for the lower body. I cannot do heavy sets of five and six and stuff very often. So I do I'll do them, but I can't do them very often. I've kind of got to put them on a rotation. And I feel better doing triples and doubles or a top single and some back off triples, but not very many for me. And then I tend to get that additional volume. The other piece of this is from that accessory work. So I do a lot of slow, controlled, not super slow, but just slow, controlled accessory movements that take me through full range of motion and can still be relatively heavy, but doesn't beat my they don't beat my joints up. It's like today, today I pressed and I benched, neither of which were super high volume. They were they were relatively low volume. And then I did a bunch of work on actually did a bunch of body weight stuff, because I feel it makes me feel better right now. So I did a bunch of pull ups. I did a bunch of dips. I did a bunch of curls and got out. And that's what I did. And that combination of of that sort of style of lifting seems to work really well. I do the same thing on lower body right now. So I like low volume squats and deadlifts. And then maybe I do some lunges, some kettlebell swings, maybe some sit ups, things like that. I have a question. The lower rep heavier work with the supplemental and accessories to create hypertrophy. Do you think that can only happen in people who have been lifting for a long enough time to have enough training and muscle mass kind of? No, that's a great question for newer lifters as well. Yes, this is a great question because I actually think that this style of training probably works. This is one of those sort of blanketed statements that I think you can make it probably works for most people. This sort of heavy. I'll make sure I got your question right. The what we're talking about heavy weight, relatively low reps per set, but maybe more sets. And that's how you get your volume, right? Or more frequency. Yeah, that's of two to five reps. Yeah, I think that works better for most. What I don't think works better for most is the traditional bodybuilding style of three sets of ten or four sets of ten, unless you're already strong and have a big base of muscle. So I think that you or I or Andrew or, you know, any of our any of our more advanced lifters could actually now train like a bodybuilder and could actually put on a fair amount of muscle growth because the strength is there. So again, if you think about it, if you're not very strong, if you're if you're a guy that's got a bench press of one hundred seventy five pounds and so you're trying to do sets of ten, but you're sets of ten at bench presses at one twenty five. How how big can you get? But instead, if you're doing if your bench press is one seventy five and you're training at one sixty, but you're doing lots of sets of three, then I've been pretty quickly. Your bench isn't going to be one seventy five anymore. It's going to be one eighty and then one eighty five and one ninety and pretty soon you're late. You're able to handle more volume at higher weights. And that's that's kind of the thing. So I think it's actually not a two way street. Do I think that if, which I would never would consider. Even can think about stepping on stage at a bodybuilding competition or even training someone to do that, I wouldn't coach somebody to do that. Just not my thing. But if you were going to do that, I still think there is some value in those high rep sets for people who have spent years building a foundation of strength and hypertrophy already. And they're trying to do the actual bodybuilding thing, which is actually sort of like sculpting where are the places that are lagging behind? What do I need to do better at? What, you know, things like that? Yeah, what what do you think from a? Let's talk accessories for a second. How how big of a role do you think those accessories are playing for you in your hypertrophy? And if they're playing a good role, what are the ones that you think are really giving you a bang for the buck? I do think that they're important because you do train different ranges of motion. They may be very similar, but they might be a little bit longer or like for a curl example, you know, in no lift. Do you use your bicep like that unless you're doing really horrible power cleans? Right. So you get to work your muscles across various range of motions, which is important. And it's a nice mental break, you know, doing six sets of really heavy deadlifts is like really emotionally exhausting sometimes, but you get to just have some fun and you like four sets of 10 on bicep curls or LTEs or chin ups or landmine rows. But anything that kind of makes your arm move through a really long range of motion, I think those are the very important ones that that do make an impact. Yeah, that's good. Let's talk about let's start with upper body for a second. What are so you mentioned things like chins and rows? Are there types of let's start with the back? What are your favorite accessory movements for the back? Specifically the upper back. Yeah. So like you said, chin ups, barbell rows, like we've done videos on before. And then I don't know what the names these are called, but like a landmine roll, landmine row, where you put the bar in like the little thing. The corner, the yeah, in the on the hinge or whatever. And it's a meadow row when it's just one handed. I think it might be called a meadow with the land with the barbell, right? And then you've got like a croc row, which is like the heavy dumbbell version of a dumbbell row, usually heavy and for high reps. Yeah, so it's like you're kind of letting your shoulder move pretty far forward. Yeah, you're protracting or abducting. So on a row, on the the rows, you're able to get a big amount, a large amount of of scapular movement. Right? That's kind of the idea. But you don't want to do an any other lift. So right, especially on like a bench press or something. Yeah, it doesn't stay pinned. Yeah, when you're able to do that, when you're able to do those rows where you're moving your scapula that much, you actually can support your bench press because now you're able to really contract those muscles to keep your scapula retracted. Yeah, so yeah, dumbbell rows, croc rows, landmine rows, T bar rows, all those, all those really good things. I kind of miss a T bar. I'll tell you the other thing that I miss that for people who go to a global gym, one of the very few advantages of a global gym is I like a seated hammer strength iso row, that seated row machine. I really like that. So great. Yeah. And nobody has that. I mean, nobody has it at home, you know, so it's a that's a but that's a that's a pretty good one. I'll tell you something I really like that I've liked for a long time and I tend to try to put it into my clients training. But I enjoy it personally is changing the grip on chin ups, pull ups, etc. Constantly. So I like narrow grip, wide grip, neutral grip, underhanded towel grip. You know, whatever I can get my literally whatever I can get my hands on, I want to I want to do that. And so for me, chin ups, like a true supinated grip is very difficult for me. The amount of twist it puts on my arms as big as as big as I am. I wish I had done those more consistently as I was getting bigger so I could maintain that range of motion. But that that's difficult. But I can do that on like a lat pull down. I can do a supinated pull. But I can do all of the other ones on a pull up bar. And so that overhanded or the wide or the the neutral grip with I like throwing a towel over and grabbing a towel and doing them there. I think those are all really fun to do. You can get rings. Those are really rings are great, too. That's exactly right. I really like those. I like your approach there because these extra lists can get really boring because that's right require you to really show up for them, quote unquote. So by varying the grip, you kind of keep it fresh. And it is nice to do that so that you continue to do them. Yeah, agreed. What about triceps? What are your favorite sort of tricep movements? And LTEs are my go to. OK. And if you don't have a curl bar, like push-ups with your hands and like a diamond shape. So we're like a really those require a lot of high rep, though. Or maybe you can have a buddy just put some weight on your back. Or I'll talk about why. Why does a push-up with a really close diamond grip? Why does that work? Your triceps more than a normal push-up. So much elbow flexion. That's right. So much elbow flexion. Your pecs don't really get to help you out as much. So, yeah, by moving your hands really close together right underneath you and then pointing your elbows kind of back towards your hips a bit more. It's almost like a close grip bench press, right? But even more, those are fine. And you can even do those on your knees if you're still working on your push-up strength. Yeah. And I'll throw like a rubber band over my squat rack and do some banded pull downs, super high rep. Push-downs, push-downs, push-downs. Thank you. I like those two. I really like those as a as an elbow rehab exercise. So if people are having tricep tenonitis type pain, I like to finish with very high rep banded tricep push-downs. Like in the 20s, that's a, you know, three sets of 20. Slow and smooth and just flood that area with blood as much as we can. I like that. You talked about your go-to being an LTE. My go-to is a rolling dumbbell extension, which those are very similar movements. One is basically with a dumbbell, one's with a curl bar. I love rolling dumbbell extension and I like dips. They don't bother my shoulder. Certainly they bother some people. My wife can't do them. She can't do dips. I was doing them here just just now and Rachel can't do those. They just grind her shoulder. She's she has kind of typical. She has some anterior shoulder issues, especially on the right side, minor posterior. So I don't know if it changes that a little bit that it just for some reason, it doesn't bother my infraspinatus as much as it as it does for her on the front of her shoulder. So I like that if it doesn't hurt. I like throwing chains around my neck for a dip, which I hesitate even saying that because it sort of, you know, I'm not trying to look like Mr. T when I'm when I'm doing what I'm doing dips, but I like a chain around the neck. Actually, I like it for pull ups as well, more than a dip belt because yeah, because of where the weight is and it's just more stable and it kind of on a dip. I actually want to pitch forward a little bit more. I like kind of pitching my torso forward and getting a little more of that of that peck pull. And so I like that as well. It sort of stabilizes me. And so I like those for for triceps for sure. Yeah. Is do you think dips are a little too much that might conflict with bench press or certainly a stronger person is? Yeah. So I mean, I think almost anything could conflict. But the thing about a dip is as a compared to those other tricep movements we're talking about is a dip is a big tricep movement, but it's also a really big peck movement and a front delt movement. And so there's obviously going to be some additional stress there that you're going to have to take into account. But it's the same thing with the triceps. If you notice, if you just keep smoking your triceps all the time and then you and you'll I see this all the time with with clients that I train in their bench pressing and it looks great. And then all of a sudden they hit like rep for and they just can't lock out the last two and a half inches. And you're like, oh, your triceps are dead, you know, especially if they had pressed before the other. What if, you know, if they're pressing and benching in the same workout, they get to the second movement and all of a sudden the triceps are gone because there's just too much carry over between the two. Totally. Yeah. So I like those. And then, you know, with with biceps are pretty easy. I mean, I always do some sort of pull or back movement first, which sort of starts the bicep work and then I'll finish, you know, I just with basic barbell curls or dumbbell curls, one of the two. And on the curls, I just want to make sure that I don't just get the elbow flexion in on the curl, but that I also get the shoulder flexion in as well so that I make sure that I cover the long head there that crosses the shoulder. So and that's it for the upper body. I mean, I don't do much more for the upper body lifts than that. And the key is that I just do those slow and controlled and then change them up when it gets boring or when you sort of peek out that movement, you know, most of these movements, you think about like a like a LTE or a rolling dumbbell extension, you get to a point and you get, you know, at some level of heavy and you just can't really go up anymore. Right. You start cheating the movement. Yeah. How do you add more stress? Yeah. You change the movement. That's what I do. I mean, it's just because otherwise you start playing this game with like, OK, now I'm going to start walking this line. The point of doing the accessory movements is that I get hypertrophy without beating the joint up. And if I start to get super heavy on a thing like an LTE or rolling double extension, my elbows start hurting. Well, now I've defeated the purpose. And so that's why I like to put those on a relative, relatively regular rotation and really like those. So lower body is harder. Upper body is the easy one because almost anybody can do those, even if you just have a basic squat rack and barbells, you don't need a lot of extra equipment. As a matter of fact, we talked about, I think a future show, we're going to do a show on like what our favorite equipment is kind of accessory equipment to buy once you have the main stuff. So once you have a rack and a barbell and the weights and the bench, what do you get after that? But lower body is a little tougher, especially for people who are at their home gym and they don't have a lot of extra stuff. What are your go-tos for lower body accessory movements? Has been tough. I started doing a lot of walking lunges. And interestingly enough, I ran to that same problem of just like the walking lunge has gotten really heavy where holding it on my back is making my back more tired than my legs. You have to do like a you have to clean it up, which is a tough thing. But yeah, walking lunges or Bulgarian split squats work well. Glute bridges, which is a huge pain in the ass to set up equipment wise. I did get to use a hip thrust or a glute bridge machine at an actual gym recently, and it's so much better than with a barbell. You know, I saw one of those. I saw one of those at a gym about a year ago in Phoenix, and I didn't know what it was. I saw it. I was like, I've been in gyms my whole life, and I don't know what that thing is right there. This like little bench that's down on the ground with a little foot pad. Yeah. And somebody had to tell me those like those are for those are for glute bridges. Like, oh, that's what that is. That makes sense now. Yeah. Walking lunges, glute bridges. If you can get some sort of knee extension or leg curls going with bands like I've tried that before, which I love those. Yeah. Yeah. Easy and cheap. Yeah. You can set it up, like sit on your bench, sit on a box and just like scoot yourself far away enough to to get the right amount of tension. But yeah, I like those as well. I have a reverse hyper that I that I picked up not long ago, and I love it. I actually I think I've changed my mind about I've gone back and forth just after another two years from now, I may completely disagree with the statement I'm about to make because I flip back and forth with this stuff. But I like a back extension machine of 45. If you can do a back extension machine and set it up correctly, where you can keep your back in extension. And so that you're basically doing what is essentially a straight leg deadlift on a back extension machine where the only thing that bends is your hips. Your hips go into flexion so that your hamstrings and your glutes get the work and your back is still getting isometric contraction. I like a back extension. Going through sort of flexion extension. I'm not I'm not a fan there. I do love a reverse hyper and I just I just pulled the trigger on a on a glued ham raise. I finally I've wanted one for a while. So I went ahead and it'll be a while. Yes, a rogue is making stuff to order. So it's going to be a while before it comes in 30 days or something. But I'm excited to have it. It's just a big footprint and you can't do much stuff there. No horizontally. So it's like you're taking up. You have to have all that clearance around it. That's exactly right. Yeah, it's a long. It's a big footprint. The reason I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on a glued ham if I thought I could squat with more frequency, but with my with my arthritis and my hips knowing that I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to go to squatting one time a week, one week, and then two times a week the next. So three times in two weeks. I think is it because I think one time is not enough for me, but two times is too much. And so what I'm going to do is just is just flip it like that. So yeah, the glute ham raise works pretty good for me. Obviously a leg press, any kind of leg press works pretty well, but also causes some hip issues there for me, where where glute ham does not because my my legs are relatively close together. So my pain comes from abduction. Like when I do hip flexion and extension, while my knees are abducted, it causes it causes pain. And with a glute ham raise, you don't get that very much. Your legs are kind of close together. So and then I like stuff like I like a kettlebell swing. Oh, OK, I'm heavy enough on a kettlebell swing for it to matter. You can't. I that's my question to you. Oh, I mean, I've I've got a 95 pound kettlebell. So yeah, it's real heavy. Yeah, I think again, for me, I'm looking at. So I'm doing accessory work for some hypertrophy, but also for what I would call health, though. And then we got to be careful with that word. It makes me feel better when I do kettlebell swings. And what I mean by that is just I'm able to go through kind of a full range of motion of something. So even if I use that, whatever, that weird 52 pound, 54 pound kettlebell, whatever that normal size is, if I do that and I do three sets of 15 on kettlebell swings, I keep my back in pretty hard extension there. It's a big, strong hip extension. It doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt my hips and my hip arthritis. So I like it and I'll do those sort of things. So again, the point is, is that we're getting our volume a lot of times. The additional volume that we need to be able to create kind of disrupt homeostasis and drive the the the hypertrophy adaptation. We get by adding the accessory work in because it does it in a way that still works the muscles really well, but doesn't beat up the joint. So the combination, what I think is the synergistic combination is heavy sets of three ish on the barbell lifts with fairly high number of sets or more frequency, one of the two, right? So you're still you're talking about, you know, five sets, six sets, seven sets or three times a week on the movements. And then combine that with nice, big, full range of motion, good control, accessory, low impact, like low impact accessory movement. I'm not doing box jumps for lower body accessories. I'm not, you know, I don't want that kind of impact sort of stuff. And the combination of those tend to work really, really well, not just for me, although yes for me, but now I'm seeing it with my clients really across the board. Yeah, same. Yeah. I like the low rep sets for people a lot, actually, because they can keep their shit together for the whole set. Yes. Here's a set of five or six of a deadlift or a low bar squat, where it's just like, sometimes you don't know what you're going to get for reps four and five. That's right. That's right. I have you do sets of two and three, like it's a high chance of success that we're going to train the movement, how it should be trained so that we can get more weight on the bar. Yeah, the fall off a lot of times from rep one and two to rep four and five is tremendous on those big, on those big barbell movements. And so you're exactly right. It helps just keep everything tighter, keep everything closer. And a lot of times that that leads to less injuries, less. And maybe it's just those many injuries, right? It's the tendonitis, it's the it's the little aches and pains because they have this this sort of form fall apart. The last couple reps, they tighten itself up when you when you get the lower reps. So, yeah, it's it tends to work really well. Another interesting thing where we're at right now in the world is I don't want to get rid of. I had so many of my clients that had to train at home during covid and now they're going back to the gym. And I don't want to get rid of the body weight work they were doing when they were home. I think they feel good. And again, there it's not about, you know, Uber mobility or hyper mobility. It's that their range of motion is just right right now. So the range of motion is great. Their joints feel healthy. And as we bring back the barbell movements, which will do like normal and run them mostly, not most, all of these people are coming back from this big layoff and they're all doing kind of a linear progression. And then we're using those body weight movements, those body weight squats and sit ups and dips and chin ups and push ups, those sort of things. Big nice range of motion with the body weight and it just lets them feel good. And so they maintain that good range of motion. And it kind of helps check off that accessory box for the hypertrophy as well. Good. Excellent. So that's the takeaway. Here's here's the thing. It's the beginning of summer. It's officially summer now, right? Yeah, because June 21st or something was first day of summer, officially summer. Everybody's been locked in the house for four or five months, whatever it has been and all this craziness. And now you're ready to get out and go to the beach and go to the pool and start seeing people and, you know, run around half naked with your swimsuits on and whatnot. And so you want to look jacked. There's nothing wrong with that. We don't train exclusively for exclusively for that purpose. But what we have found is that when you're able to train still heavy and you drop your reps from somewhere in the five range to somewhere in the three range and you drive your total volume up by adding sets or adding frequency of days, more movements. And then you combine that with accessory work. And I like getting my volume. We haven't said this, but I like getting lots of volume in my accessory work in a short period of time. I hand that stuff out. I don't care about resting enough. Like if I, well, if I rested two more minutes, I could get 12 reps on the barbell curls instead of 10 reps on it. Like I don't care. I want to be fatigued. I'm trying to drive hypertrophy. And so some muscular fatigue there is fine. And so I have to leave the gym with your arms feeling bigger than they were when you started. That's right. I want to feel swole, like where the word comes from. They want to feel swell. And so that's a great way to do it. So lift heavy, drop your reps and then knock out very quickly like 15, 20 minutes max is what I'm doing for my accessory work. And I'm out. Get out of the gym and I'm tired. And it also sort of it also kind of checks a box for the conditioning thing. Like if you hammer it quickly, your heart rate goes up and you're breathing heavy and you and then I walk out of the gym and I feel good. I don't feel like a fat power lifter from 2001 who just went in and hit a squat single and a deadlift single and walked out and got McDonald's on the way home and then cracked open the Coors Light. That's not what I'm, you know, it takes 45 minutes. That's right. So, yeah, that works. So that's a great, that's a great strategy for hypertrophy. Give us, give it a shot and let us know what you think. Let us know if it makes a difference. Sure. Awesome. Hey, you've listened to another episode of the Barba Logic podcast. We'll be doing these content episodes every Monday. And for a little while, we're going to be doing principles episodes on Thursday. Those won't always be my brother and I, Nick. You'll be on that as well, as well as other members of the Barba Logic team. And then be looking forward to those series coming out soon. Oh, awesome. 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