 I'm not sure that, but he couldn't be here today. He's going to call back after this meeting. And I'm not looking for education. I have to live for less for a while. Now, if we do get national experts and we get them on the screen, I hope we do some better publicity. We are going to have a meeting after this, of whatever stuff for me to meet the members. Things seems like things are progressing. Do you need any help in any regard for any of the members? I don't. I just wanted people to tell me they're comfortable in the directions I'm looking at. That's the only thing. Thank you. I'm sorry, I'm untrained to ask for permission. It's a little bit of a shame. So, I like the idea of bringing in national people. I think we need to test it out in advance, because I've been to too many things where something goes wrong and then everyone's sitting around for a while, and it becomes a disaster, technically. I agree with that. I'm sorry, I just started down the path. And then the second thing is I still think it's important to try to include some local people, even if there's an overlap. So, I would encourage you to join me, even if there's a way even if it's brief, since you're a minor. And then the other suggestion I would have, I thought with the use of law enforcement, I was thinking criminal justice, like courts and lawyers and not police, that the police chief of Burlington has spoken about the use of artificial intelligence in policing, and he's done some research in it, so that he'd be a good resource to either bring in as a local law enforcement officer who's looking into how AI, if the benefits are missed, would apply to law enforcement, or he may refer you to other national experts. So, predicting law enforcement, I want to just throw that out there as a suggestion. Yeah, that's where the, again, there's Eric Fisher, or I'm sorry, I want to write for law enforcement part of it, and that's where the artificial intelligence activity seems to be the biggest. Of course, all those things end up in courts, so they're involved in it. One of the problems with the courts at the moment is the state courts have found that the federal courts are essentially on their shutdown. I'm having a little trouble talking to you. One question, do you want an industry perspective on that? And we, my company owns something called coupling, which is intelligence around perpetrators, or something like that, and it would be just the kind of thing that you would want to really understand and have determined. I mean, I think they're responsible, but it might be good to get about that. I'd like that introduction. Well, no, they're scrupulously careful, but I think that that's... If you would give me a contact, I would be really good. The subject is so large and so controversial that I'm afraid it's going to eat up every other activity that happens. And maybe we want that because we haven't really tackled the one this big and this controversial subject. So you'll give me... So, where do you want some of that? Maybe we should put that to the group. Moving on. Something that's not on the agenda that we thought about that was the March meeting. Unless I'm going to be a mother being one in March. I guess back in October, we decided that other industries would like to hear from our services, retail and food. I guess what I'm asking is maybe we should discuss subcommittee members and perhaps subcommittee chair so you can get that organized for March. Do you hear from them? What date did we pick that up? It's March 22nd. Oh, yeah, there it is. It is. I must admit that I have this fear that we're running out of this approach. In other words, and this came from the discussion you were in the social worker was when you realized that the nature of the issue and the nature of the AI application overlap with somewhere else that essentially is doing the same thing as the same issues. Although it happens to be a different part of our list of the various parts of the world to do artificial intelligence. And I'm wondering if that March meeting subject is needed in order to be better to start getting to another serious discussion about what we're talking about. That's a question. That's a question. So you're questioning maybe it's time for us to shift our focus towards working on the report of our presentations and processing everything you do. Receiving. Yeah. I see the conclusion as well. I also think that we need to we had talked about doing some public engagement beyond the commission and maybe it's time to think about our meetings being focused on synthesizing or going analyzing and then having some meetings that are not task force meetings but public forums into that piece so that we can gather some feedback from the public meeting in March and April to integrate the report. I would like to add that we should have some based experts that we bring to these meetings to give us some taste for what's out there instead of us I'm okay with that idea. When I said public forum I didn't think that we were going to get up there and teach people things. I actually viewed it as opening it up to the people and saying to the people of Vermont what are your concerns and your questions what do you want us to be thinking about because when I was on the radio with my love we weren't on a paper or a court. The purpose is so many people called in with questions and concerns like so many and it was a lot of fear and so I think we need to create a space for people to express that and ask their questions and we need to validate these concerns and then we may not have the answers but I think that their questions could inform what ends up I'm fine with having some people talk too and doing public education but I think we have to balance that with people of value for their voice. What was that way for you? When my love and I were lobbying working on it and you can go online and it's still there you can give me any critiques you have as an expert somewhere I said but they had me and they had I don't know if it was Secretary Quinn or Secretary Quinn and myself were live and they had recorded Milo and had a little interview with them so there were a lot of questions so I think that was my point bringing that up So what I'm hearing is speakers me and in the February there's not really need to go online and then there start public education So we had to go to the March with Longing calendar Yeah Maybe March 27 March 27 So do we still have a public outreach workgroup? Are we going to be thinking about the mechanisms? I know that we have talked about the monetization and some other thoughts but for the mechanics I'm just wondering what are the readings to that group? Maybe also but I think the idea sounds to me like Brian that there was a lot of pent-up interest and concern and great platform that is explicitly global that we would actually allow people to come in and if they have people join us here that's a pretty good opportunity to meet people another radio kind of thing or something like that where there's participation I think that would be very powerful and it would also get a sense it would improve our transparency and get a sense of that So do we sell a group that's doing that? Can we revive that? We haven't done that in the last long But we should probably make sure so that when we get past March we have a problem Can we go back to the radio broadcast and compile at least the questions that were already called in so that we have a starting point? Can we categorize them? You're right, Nega Nega Nega program that goes through the internet and gathers every question No, we're just on the question So next meeting I can get together who the witnesses are two weeks before the meeting that if you could find a way to publicize it because I think this subject will bring out people a bit more than some of the others even if we're running it just means we have more people here You have some contact with public radio and you just invite them to have them broadcast and that will be a menu for us I'm willing to reach out to them They were interested in follow up, right? I'm curious how the members of the public that are here now learn about this I heard about it The representatives put a post on front porch forum I got the rest of it You're a traitor Probably Okay I just did a Google search for artificial intelligence from on and show up You're like a roll of dice Sandy I'm the legislator at the Kyle's College I heard about it Thank you I did send out a press release and I've been here I've been spamming I've been posting on front porch forum my own little my updates because we don't have updates each 10 minutes So I've been writing my own little summary and sending it out from me with a link to the website and I had multiple constituents write to me and one of them actually was like three of them actually were like you put the wrong date because we had changed the date so I was like this is awesome that actually four people call my mistake and like we're checking So I think another brand new people may consider the date would be front porch forum postings I think a question I would have is like I was writing my own updates from my constituents because I feel like I owe them explanations but that's not from me not the task force and then there might be some benefit to the task force actually having a press release or a statement that we all send out that's consistent that's the updates That's the thought That's another venue I did email an agency of commerce and community development that's not the press release so that's good in some way or beyond us and I can send out a press release but it's really I know John he spoke to me about having a female representative but I just don't unless the agency is going to that's something that they want to do I'm not certain I was very brief I did not in the list of the speakers because that wasn't on the website and we just put information from the website Part of the reason I would like to get the information out of there I mean I know about the speakers as of yesterday so for today but if we can get them out earlier before the meeting like and this is maybe our last opportunity then the opportunities will be much greater than just simply my meeting and this is the general subject so I chose the original meeting times based on what I thought like normal what the people that could be would be available which might mean that some people in the public won't be available would I don't know if the committee would want to schedule meetings not during normal business hours you mean like on Friday or Saturday not on Friday just something I noticed because nobody asked me what dates to meet I chose it so maybe a Thursday or Wednesday night yeah, it just to be thought not preferable for me I do miss three classes on these Fridays and it's an hour drive each way so next time I'm going to have to skip it well can I ask a group of questions would how would it work if we did it on a Wednesday or Thursday night like just play along with me for a minute like if it was a Wednesday night who could make that work Thursday if it was a Wednesday night who could make it work if it was a Thursday night who could make it work so we'd be excluding two people doing it at night it's what I'm saying it's like our lives a little blow right here so might the committee want to do that I'm not comfortable with excluding my LLG there's always some people that can't make the time and I can skype I can't do Thursday night I might be able to skype on Wednesday and I'm usually in Cambridge on Christmas I can skype well I mean I think when we do we have a you know a true public meeting where we're going to go out I guess and if we don't want to hear from the general public then that absolutely should be an evening it doesn't need to be four hours long yes two hours, an hour maybe enough it really just depends on how many people kind of show up but you schedule two hours the meeting of our group you know I think this last meeting can still be during the day you know during the sort of listening to the experts for hours I think everybody wants that to be our meeting that would be okay too but you know it really needs to be like there is a lot to be said for a more relaxed setting and most AI actions are just saying is that strictly could we have an informal meeting so people could of the task force either the task force or the task force in the public I think the public meeting could be somewhere more informal but I think a task force meeting in a place that serves alcohol is probably not a good idea let me know the definition of AI that we come to later the B or the M heart relations it might allow people to I understand that the AI meeting space I know I can yeah that would be a great place was that sort of on Champlain campus we can hold up 160 people we're thinking for the forum and we could that might be really a good forum and I think we talked about having more than one forum like in different regions and so perhaps the Chittenden County forum is there and we look at one or two or three other ones in other parts of the state we don't all have to go to every forum but don't you have another space in Southern Vermont do I understand it there is another linker space on it who's the associate with what town that would be another great place yeah and I do think it would be able to go to a place where you can so Chittenden County my only concern about too much going in this direction and I'm emphasizing too much not going in this direction part is that we leave ourselves less and less time to reach any conclusions and have any discussion with this so I don't know it's hard to predict how hard or easy it will be to come to conclusions or recommendations for this but and of course we can always ask for more time and maybe it's an expectation and more meetings or whatever but I just want to be sure we have enough time set aside to be able to seriously grapple with what is going to be a complex issues to may work I wonder you know the meeting and the court persons that we have to in February whatever that puts the date on that meeting and is that the place where we would want to ask you know the committee just for some more space they're saying June and really we don't need to report back to them practically speaking until the back session in 2020 so what's the point of this June deadline and can we get some more flexibility on that and a little bit more flexibility if we have to be a couple more times and kind of talk through some issues can we request that should we be requesting that now in our report that goes to the committee I think that's probably a good idea I agree I think that people are willing to go into the fall because they have more time than what meetings are indicated and that's then you could clearly have enough time to go around for the part of the meeting the results are that we hold one meeting possibly for a long time just because of public meetings extend the deadline and hold the public meetings in fair and well I don't know if I don't have the legality of asking for an extension because it was actually there was a J in the bill but I think you should be honest with them about the progress of the work and that what we're finding is that this isn't that we're just scratching the tip of an iceberg because one of the questions for us was what ongoing work is needed is a commission needed or some ongoing investigation so I think we should be honest in February of how much is coming up and how the deadline is posing a problem and then see what the committees say to us what guidance they give us about what they think we should do so be prepared to ask for additional meetings but be prepared not to have those accepted be prepared to I guess we should be prepared that we're going to be told no we need a report wherever you're at on that date because the law says you have to give it to us but in our report we could say we need you to extend our work for a year and we're all willing to do it for free like we are or we could say you need to institute a commission or we could say you need to build the giant artificial intelligence to manage the government right now we could say whatever conclusion we had I was joking but the other pieces I was serious I think we need to just be honest to where we're at and then the report needs to be an honest representation of where we're at so let me make a motion that is in the report which we still have to get out of course the rest of that we asked for a extension whether it has to be by law, bail, law or can be done by the committees to January 1 and such other meetings as we can get done between Jim and Jim in January 1 it doesn't have to be a specific number but as we determine yeah as we determine our necessary so that's something that we'll second the motion yes I'm going to have to if it goes into the next fall it's going to be really hard for me I miss an awful lot of classes and I have to reschedule but it isn't I'll move to college by then I mean I'd be happy to go through the summer and especially when it opens up a couple of opportunities but I'm hoping you're out of meetings so I'd like to say that I think waiting until January I think we should move be prepared before January and there's some legislators in this room perhaps they could help me with what I'm about to say I have noticed that agencies do not necessarily report to the legislature in a timely manner and I know it's this because in committees the legislators will explain that to you so I don't think it's dramatic to ask for more time but it should be punctual in our request and I also think that these committees do some work during the non-legislative session so I think we should they ask for something for June we should do our best to kind of get it to them to September because the committee chair is going to do something with this information this is a friendly amendment to not say January 1 but to say September 30 okay can I just add something that if two people mention that you may have to step away from the work at some point and that if that happens for anyone that we were all appointed through a process and I think that process would replace us so if you happen to go up to MIT and you can you know use virtual reality and MIT Media Lab to be here with us in some way then the governor would appoint another student and you can't I think the senate appointed you right so the committee on committees would appoint another professor who it is MIT's are I'm okay with that I'm okay with that amendment to September 30 okay did you already get that I got it yeah motion to separate I said that is there any other discussion about this topic about extending to September 30 additional meetings are you asking for specific meetings or just in general in general just to be clear that the motion was that in the February 15 update to the legislature that the person who gives that update is going to share the progress of our work and let them know we need more time and ask for an extension if possible and we're going to be prepared to give a report at the deadline either way it just may not be as good as if we had more time I think we would give a report in June and then a final report we're going to give one in June no matter what but we're asking for more time before the final yes that's the sense of the event this report though in February 4 to 15 is forever all of us I mean it's a commission report but someone's going to have to go we're not all going to go stand in front of energy and technology no, no, no it's not the idea in fact the problem is that since our next meeting is February 22 all agree on that can't occur in another meeting now or by some means in the next month I didn't think we should can we vote on that motion and then talk about how to do the report yeah so the motion is to again that we're expecting a report providing traditional meetings and do you have a 30th deadline for a final report without eliminating the June 30 report sorry yeah eyes eyes motion passed and I'm happy to write that I'll give you that line we'll see we'll see the I was not saying we're out of time but we've got a recent agenda speaking about the speakers how about we move about discussing the meeting prior to February 15 submission to after the speakers are presented very one other thing it's the requirement of the subcommittee to bring cookies and changes are done all the prior subcommittee chairs they're there, they're here and at some point they'll be required to eat at least one I've got my eyes on the minimal I don't know last time we would do we kind of had this method where I would be 5 minutes another one would go down so I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I 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