 Major news out of Nashville, Tennessee this week, a committee in the state's legislature has convened a bipartisan committee to study generations of potential underfunding in land grant resources to the historically black flagship of Tennessee, Tennessee State University. Joining us today with an exclusive interview is representative Harold Love Jr., Dr. Harold Love Jr., a Tennessee State University alumnus and proud advocate and it runs in his blood on behalf of TSU. So Dr. Love, we appreciate you making the time today. This is a significant issue about land grant funding or matching state funds of federal land grant money to historically black institutions of which there are 19 across the country. Can you give us a little bit of background information on the work of this committee and what it is charged to do in analyzing and discovering ways to better support Tennessee State University? Yes, sir. And thank you again for the opportunity to speak to you today. Let me if I can just give a background of how we got to where we are today. Credit needs to be given to those who work in the past to try to get Tennessee State University's adequate state matching funds. And I must pause and acknowledge the fact that and I have a report with me right now. In 1970, my father along with Alvin King, another state representative put this report together the special financial needs of Negro universities. When they both served in the legislature here, my father served from 1968 to 1994. Tennessee State was in his district at that time. And they noticed that TSU was not getting their state matching funds when it came to the land grant dollars. So of course, he put this report together, which lifted up much of the discrepancies that we addressed in years after that. Also other state representatives had done Jung's work, Dr. Barbara Cooper and Representative Brenda Gilmour, who's now in the Senate, helped get some of the matching funds. So when I got elected in 2012, one of the first things that was brought to my attention was the fact that they were still lacking, Tennessee State that is still lacking one component of the matching funds that came to about $1.14 million that they had been lacking. I brought that to the attention of the governor at the time, Governor Haslam, and we worked out a situation where they did get the funds matched that year and going forward. But then I began to ask myself, well, what about those years past? What about the arrearage? And how can we look at trying to get that particular discrepancy resolved? As we did research, what we found was that as with most 1890 land grants, they were not given their state matching funds over the years. And of course, when they didn't get their matching funds from the state, as many of you know, they had to dig into their own general funds and make that match so they wouldn't lose their federal dollars. And so over the years, that's been my point that I've pushed. I've been on education committee since 2012. And so whenever there was a discussion about education funding for higher ed, always raised the issue of what about T issues arrearage? What about Tennessee State's past dollars? And the point that I made them was this, we look at a school at Tennessee State and we discuss issues of building maintenance. We discuss issues of teacher salary and student scholarships and endowments. We must factor in that for Tennessee State and other land grants, but particularly Tennessee State here in this state, they did not get their matching funds and as a result had to dig into their general funds, which reduced things like their dollars to maintain buildings, their dollars to give student scholarships, their dollars to put in the endowment, their dollars to give increase in pay to staff and particularly faculty. And so you can't just say Tennessee State was woefully underperforming when they were woefully underfunded. And so a conversation with the new speaker of the house, our last budget cycle about these issues around racism and equity, I kept raising a point, you know, we have a situation here in Tennessee where one of the most glaring examples I can think of the fact that you had a school that was supposed to be on equal footing with another school and it was not giving its fair funding. And the only thing that we can point to is that it was being discriminated against. And so the speaker, and I'm thankful to speaker Sexton and Lieutenant Governor McNally for putting this committee together and asking to the let's look at the total funding that was not given to Tennessee State because of course I did my own research, research in budget books back to 1955 and looked at those amounts, but I want to have a second source to say, let's investigate how we got to this place and let's look critically, not only at how we got to this place, but what we can do going forward, what kind of payment arrange we can make so that we can really talk about how this school was denied its money over these decades. And let's talk about this is a, this is an analysis that is going to go from 1955 through 2016, I believe. Correct. And, and what it's going to break down is not only just funds that may have been withheld, but the ways that funds period were distributed to Tennessee State. And I think that there's, there's new revelations that your committee has discovered about just how funds in higher education are allocated through the state. Is that something you can comment on? Sure. And let's be clear about this, you know, in a snapshot in time, it's what we're looking at 1955, 2016 and some say, well, why that period? Because in 2016, we got the full match and that was going forward. And so we will look at the period of time when we didn't get the match back to about 1955, when we have those hard copies of those budget books and, you know, we're looking at now a realization that some of the federal funding may not have been allocated to Tennessee State. And that, that's the, the, the, the regulatory piece I want us to focus on because when you talk about the, the funding of a, of a land grant institution, there's several components to go in. One, there's a federal amount that comes down to that university. And then there's a state required match. And then we also know that in instances where the state may not give them their full match, that university can ask for a waiver, which then allows them to pay for a match a lower amount. But many times when they were asked, when asked for a waiver, they still did not get any money from the state that they're in. Like Tennessee State, many times did not get any money from the general assembly and had to, again, make that match out of the general fund. So one has, that's the question. Uh, agricultural dollars were underfunded. And then when you talk about a repayment plan or trying to find a way to cure this problem, one must realize it's not just repaying agricultural dollars, but also again, repaying dollars that would have gone into, uh, the general fund would have gone into student scholarships, would have gone into teachers, scholars, and of course, building maintenance. Let's talk about what, for people who may not know, and I know a lot of folks who follow the digest are, are HBCU enthusiasts, but for the average, uh, HBCU supporter or student or alumnus who may not be aware of what that, that USDA funding means, let's talk about from your view, a legislative view, why that's so important in Nashville and the state of Tennessee for black farmers, agricultural business. Why does it mean so much? And why is that funding so critical? So I think when we look at the history of the Morrill Act 1862, right? We know that Congress passed this act to create universities that focus on agricultural and industrial endeavors. And those schools did not allow African Americans or persons of color, any person of color to enroll in those schools. As a result, the 1890 land grant act created our 19 public land grant HBCUs. So a state like Tennessee, another state is different, but for Tennessee, Tennessee state is the only public HBCU that Tennessee has. And so what's, what's so very important to say, how do you treat your one public land grant institution? To your point, you, if you have farmers, uh, in Tennessee that are African American, this goes back to pre 1950 errors, right? When African American farmers may not have been able to get the same kind of support that they would from a predominantly white institution. So the only resource would be a Tennessee state university. So you look at Tennessee state as it has developed, uh, students from all over the country and all over the world. It also speaks to the point of not just agriculture from the perspective of growing food, but now Agua business, right? You talk about other issues of food safety, food security. Uh, you talk about four age clubs and how these, uh, four age clubs can be used to, to develop self esteem in young people, not just in, in non-urban areas, but also in urban areas. So Nashville is a major metropolitan city. You know, what does it mean for a public HBCU like Tennessee state to be able to help in infuse into the minds of young people, the importance of agriculture, the importance of growing food, the importance of nutrition, the importance of being able to provide for your family and also to be able to run a business. These are the components of agriculture that aren't often lifted up when we talk about agricultural and land grants. And so for me, that's the important component because if you don't fully fund your land grant institution, then how are you able to take care of the rest of the university and the population in which, uh, again, a university like Tennessee state serves? You, this is a bipartisan committee, um, colleagues with you on your side of the aisle and on the opposite side of the aisle. How encouraged are you that this committee will, will bring to bear for the, before the larger body, a true assessment of what the, what the funding trends have been and that it will be received by the full house of Congress. So my encouragement comes in this, um, I showed you earlier a report from 1970 that my father and representative Alvin King and some others did. And I made the point in the last meeting that this report was submitted to the general assembly in 1970. And here we are 50 years later and it hadn't been remedied. But I think the fact that a committee is now being formed has been formed rather. And that this dialogue is occurring on, on mediums like what you have, it's also being streamed live, uh, for those who want to see all the meetings and the fact that we're going to be meeting until June of 2021 gives us the platform to fully dive into, uh, these questions. And here's also the beauty of it. It's not just representative Harold Love, Jr. Going up to do research and look at budget books and bring back to finance ways and means with a budget committee, a request for funding. This is a committee fully researching. This is budget analysts. These are, uh, our, our best and brightest minds down here diving in and saying, all right, let's look at literally what has happened. So our first meeting dealt with an overview of what HBC use are because part of the issue is this, we have 95 counties here in Tennessee. I can never make the assumption that every, uh, member of the legislature who represents those 95 counties knows what Tennessee state represents. That's wrong for me to assume that. And so this committee also gives the chance to talk about what is an 1890 land grant and also to face that difficult, uh, dark past and say, well, why did Tennessee state even have to be formed? Right? Why couldn't the black students and the black citizens of Tennessee attend University Tennessee at Knoxville? And so once we had that discussion, we talked about why, why were they formed and then talk about now we see the discrepancy. So that was the major piece was to, you know, have an education process to say, this is what 1890 land grants means. So now when a Harold loved us, when us does come up to the committee and request funds, it's not like we're requesting funds like every other college who wants money from the state. We're saying we would like to get back what we were supposed to get. And let me, if I can note something here that's important, you know, most states have two land grants. Some states even have what's called normal schools. These were colleges where, uh, the college was built to train teachers, uh, and, and, and most states don't have a normal school and a land grant in the same place. Some do. Uh, and, and those are unique features. Tennessee state is one of those. You were supposed to have four, uh, normal schools here in Tennessee, one for, uh, black students, but what they did was combine the normal school with the land grant. And so that's also funding that should have come to Tennessee state is the normal school funding, but it was not, it was split among the other three normal schools. We know that Tennessee state has a, a very distinguishing, unique history, uh, nationally. And it's particularly in the HBC sector is the first, uh, historically black institutions that have a white, predominantly white institution merged into it by active the Supreme Court. Uh, and, and it has grown and expanded in Nashville because of a lot of that history. But as you mentioned, this is a 50 year fight longer than that. Because he's, they've been fighting since his inception. Yeah. No, he's used, uh, do you, and, and because this fight is taking place in a unique time where there's a racial reckoning nationwide, but we're also in the middle of a dangerous and costly pandemic. Do you, do you worry that people may, who don't know as much about TSU, its history and its, and its value may say, yeah, we, we want to do right by folks, but we ain't got the money. Is that, is that a real possibility? It's, it's not as much of a concern, uh, as it would have been a couple of years ago, uh, even before the pandemic, because we use this phrase, uh, the budget is a moral document, uh, because we fund what we are concerned about. We fund what we value. And for the fact that Tennessee state had been underfunded and not funded for many years, uh, this committee again provides a platform for us to raise this issue. Of course, we acknowledge the fact that COVID-19 pandemic has caused many of our, uh, states to have budget revenue shortfalls, but I've also noticed that even in times of, of, uh, low revenues, we found a way to fund some projects. Right. We've always found a way to fund projects outside of just the normal, uh, funding request for state government. And so for Tennessee, I think this is a time when we can also look and see, all right, what are we funding this year that is necessary? Uh, what are we funding that we maybe could put off for another year? Is there a project out there on, um, the state budget that could be delayed for a year that could provide funding for Tennessee state and policy or marriage, uh, repayment? I think for me, that's, that's what I'm inspired about is the fact that we're really looking at this other piece of this, we are talking about a situation where everybody now can view this, right? And it's different to have a report that's sent out and maybe everybody that doesn't read it, it's a whole other thing to have the conversation. And to your point, the policy windows open, that's one thing, the language we use from time to time is that you may be trying to get something passed, uh, a bill or a measure, but the policy window is not open yet. But now, because to your point of our conversations about race and inequity, uh, following a Mark Aubrey and Breonna Taylor and George Floyd and other issues and just bringing things to the forefront and saying, these are things we grappled with. This allows us our thing to say, now, here's a situation where we know, as a matter of fact, that an institution that was built to primarily educate African Americans and an institution that deny had interest to African Americans were both funded at two different ways and two different levels. How do we in 2020 going to 2021 not rectify that and say it's okay? And then the final question, and again, we so much appreciate your time today. This is something your dad is a TSU and a Nashville and a Tennessee hero. You have taken up his fight. Yes. Is there joy or is there frustration about that that this is a this is a family fight for you personally. Is your is your family like percentage of I'm glad to be in service and I'm tired of these same battles on and on and on generation after generation. Sure. So so it's it's both and my grandmother, my father's mother finished in Tennessee normal school, right? So she finished from the Institute before it became Tennessee State. And so that's how far back my lineage goes with this institution that she finished there in 1914. Then my father finished from there, as you said, my mother actually taught in Tennessee State will work there for 57 years, taught in 10 years in mathematics. And then the other 47 years ran the pre college program that most of us are familiar with Upward Bound. And so for me, this is a family work project. I'll say this also. The the bittersweet thing for me is this. I'm chairing the committee with another member from the Senate and that is the joy that I've had that I've been able to take the lead on this and to to chair this committee. I've never chaired a committee before. So the one committee I'm chairing is the committee that is going to investigate the funding for Tennessee State. I can't think of any more way to honor my father than to do that because again, he taught us the value of hard work and he loved Tennessee State. He and my mother met there. And that for me to your point, even though it's a fight that I haven't picked up, but the blessing for me is that he did the work and I want to say that as an encouragement to all young persons and sort of young persons who are finding themselves picking up the mantle and carrying on someone else's work. There's a blessing in that there's a blessing in honoring the fact that someone else laid the groundwork for you and you acknowledge that and that you do indeed stem the shoulders of those giants. There's a blessing that you to finish the work and for us not to grow weary in our well doing. So that for me is inspiration and I hope also that this become a model of the states to pick up and say, look, Tennessee and Tennessee State worked out these issues. The state of Tennessee looked at the underfunding and if they can do it, then surely someone else can do it and they can form a committee and they can go and actually do the research and discover how much a rearrange was with health and the university. Representative Harold Love, Junior, we appreciate your work, brother. Thank you so much for your time today. And we look forward to welcoming you back with developments on the work of this committee. Recommendation for a larger body and the participation of Tennessee State's legislation. Thank you so much. Because our next meeting is January the 11th. And so we'll certainly be in touch before then because that's the day before we reconvene our session. So that's going to be an exciting meeting also.