 The path applied to Niger, Republic was stopped on Wednesday as sanctions against a neighbouring country by the economic community of West African states increased. On Sunday, Eqo was led by Nigerian President Bola Metin, who decided on sanctions against the military personnel in Niger, who toppled President-elect Mohammed Bozoum last week. In addition to a one-week automaton to restore constitutional order, the suspension of financial transactions with Niger, Eqo has decreed the freezing of all service transactions, including energy transactions. Well, joining us at this cost is Dennis Amakri. He's a former deputy director of the DSS. It's so good to have you join us, Mr. Amakri. Good evening. Good evening. Yeah. I mean, let's just go straight to it. Many people have, you know, first informers frowned at what's happening in Francophone Africa. But let's start with, you know, Francophone Africa. First, it was Mali. And of course, we know Senegal is having his issues chad. And here we are now with Niger, which is really just by the corner of Nigeria. Literally, you can cross over with one foot and you'd be between Nigeria and Niger. Many had wondered if this would one way or the other rob off on Nigeria. Until Mr. President issued that seven-day automaton. What does this mean for Nigeria and the Equus, when a seven-day automaton is given to the Johnson in this way? I think, thank you for having me. I think that order, the ultimate, was given in a hurry. Because we have to be realistic about it. You don't go and ask, you know, look at the others that has happened. Mali, Burkina Faso, Gili, you know, all of them had a military role. And we tried to send our former president there to turn them to hand over to civilians. And it never happened. Now, I think this new, this new ghost, so to say, to push out the military in the year, I think is being sponsored mainly by the other Ekoas members. Try to set up Nigeria, because I don't see how they will even give out an automaton like that without even giving an escape route for the Johnson. So when it comes to the date, which is about how many days from now, then what happens? You know, we don't even have a standing army. And these are all the things that are wrong with it. You know, because you are not going to form an army now. And if you do that, mainly to be Nigerians, because the other countries are too weak to do that. You know, so I think it was in a big hurry. And it was not very good for us. But in mind, of course, we saw videos, we saw pictures coming out from Niger Republic and the capital where a lot of people were trying the flags of Russia. People were in support somewhat. We could tell that people were in support of the junta taking over. And many are saying, I've spoken to so many foreign policy experts, and of course, so people who are invested in international relations. And they keep saying that one of the reasons why we see these kinds of takeovers is purely because of bad governance. But then is a military junta necessarily the opposite of bad governance? Is it a solution of sorts? Let's talk about it. Let's go to the beginning of coups in Africa. Right now from 1999 to present day, we have 89 coups in Africa. And we don't have any that much in Europe or in the United States. Why? Because the fundamental issue there is bad governance, poverty, you know, bad conditions of living by the citizens. And coups usually in Nigeria, for instance, for the one I know, you know, coups started coming up when the politicians started misbehaving. And the military boys felt that it was a nice time to intervene and help the public. That's why I've seen many coups in Nigeria where when the military comes in, people go out to the streets and dance. And that is what we are seeing in Niger right now, where many of them, people just came out all over the place. And a government is the one that is accepted by the people. Democracy has failed in Africa, because when you look at it, you know, democracy is supposed to be a government of the people, by the people, for the people. And of course, for these people coming out to dance on the street means that the government is not for them and it has not done anything for them. The poverty remains. So what do we have? People are supporting the coupists. And we have to do something about it because going to attack them is not the answer. But addressing the mental issues, I think, is the answer. Do you see Mr. President backpedaling on this issue, because you started by saying that it was ill-advised and it was not too wide's way to go about it, of course, and you think that there was pressure mounted on Mr. President because, of course, it's the litter of the Epovois? And bearing in mind the weakness of all of the armies surrounding us as a country, could it be that we also might be still, you know, in a haze of sorts, still thinking that we are still that big brother, because of the things that we've done back in the day with the Epovois? Are we still leading on that past glory? Or do you see Mr. President backpedaling on this issue in no time? Well, the President has advised us, and I think they live in the society. They see what is happening. And if they are going to tell him exactly what is going on without trying to tell him what he wants to hear, then they will tell him the truth, you know. And, of course, backpedaling is not a problem. The only problem we have there is a reputational risk, you know, where the reputation of Nigeria, the reputation of Epovois, the reputation of his president or chairman is at risk if they backpedal, because that's what Africa Union did the same thing. Africa Union gave 15 days without any ultimatum. But we went ahead, Epovois went ahead and gave an ultimatum, and, of course, that hangs our reputation in the balance. So, if they backpedal, then we have a huge, huge reputational risk to work with. I'm most curious. Would we rather not risk that reputation, I mean, a little brute or ego would not kill us as opposed to sending our men to their deaths. Let's not forget, in the north-east, in the north-central, we have our problems. We still have to deal with banditry. And, of course, we have, one way or the other, been working hand in hand with Niger to deal with those issues, that's on the one hand. And we also know, like you have said, there is not necessarily an echo army as we speak, which would be easier, taking a bruise to our ego or sending our men to their death or risking all of the things that we've built over the years in terms of fighting insurgency and terrorism. When it comes to brass tacks, you'll find out that we have to just take the low end of it, because also you have to think of the consequences of taking that high level of risk, the consequences, which could include economic, and then, of course, we can also have humanitarian security problems of people moving from Niger to Nigeria, and Nigeria has no problems. So, right now, the situation is very dicey. We're dealing with IVPs, of course. We're already dealing with, I mean, I'm sure that you're aware that cross river state is overburdened by displaced persons from the Anglophone parts of Cameroon. We're burdened also by IVPs, even from Niger itself. And if this war were to happen, because I want to go quickly to quote what the Echoes have said, it said, and I quote, in the event where the Echoes demands are not met within one week, the leaders have said that they would take all measures necessary, all measures on the line, all measures necessary, in order to restore constitutional order in the Republic of Niger. Such measures may include the use of force for this effect. Now, the Chief of Defence Staff of the Echoes are in meetings as we speak. If this war were to happen, would the people be going north to the Sahara, or would they be coming south to us in Nigeria? And what kind of danger would that pretend for us? I think that middle is still on. The middle of the Chief of Defence of the different countries of Echoes. They are still sitting in the Abuja, thinking of what to do, because it is not an easy, easy problem that they find themselves in right now. So, they are still meeting. And I can tell you one thing, if there is any problem in Chad, or no, in Niger, the movement of human beings is going to be south. Nobody goes into the desert to do what, to die. You know, you come down south where it is green, where there is a boom in the economy, so to say, in Nigeria. You want to come down there and see what you can do to, you know, scratch out a living. So, the movement is going to be south. And then of course, that is going to give Nigeria a big problem. Because the humanitarian problem is huge. Like you said, all these IDP camps are still there, badly managed, badly managed. So, this time they are not coming to go into IDP camps. They are coming to go into society. And you can imagine what that could pretend. Quickly, let me push you again on the issue of people who are in support of what is happening in Niger. One of the latest countries to throw their weight behind Niger Republic is Algeria. And we might see many more countries throwing their support behind Niger. There seems to be a movement or a shake within the Francophone countries. And maybe some of the Portuguese countries moving against France. Because as of yesterday, we saw a movement, a move by the French government to take some of its people out of Niger. And this is not the first time it's happened. Like I said, Mali had its fair share most recently. But all of these countries throwing their weight behind Niger and some who have said that they're supporting Russia, Longleaf, Vladimir Putin, et cetera, et cetera. Should this not one way or the other haul the Echoes and the African Union to a longer meeting as opposed to talking tough? Like I said earlier, the meeting is taking too long. The meeting is taking too long of the chief of defense staff of Echoes. And I'm sure the presidents are going to sit back again. And start talking, because the matrix is getting complicated. Whereby France has been asked to go, Niger has stopped the exploitation of uranium, which is the major issue in Niger. And they stopped that. And then of course, Russia is interested. And the Wagner group has sent their message of, I should not call it condolence or support, to the coupists in Niger. So if Echoes say that they are going to attack Niger in seven days. And of course, there are other countries Guinea, Bali, Burkina Faso, and all say, okay, we will support you if they attack you. And at the same time, we have Russia. And the Wagner group, definitely, this kind of scenario, the kind of theater that they operate, they would like to operate it. And they will come. And when they come, then of course, Echoes have to be very, very careful because they might end up fighting a proxy war, a serious proxy war. And I still know Nigeria is just the, Nigeria should take it more seriously because all the other Echoes countries, I don't see them even sending troops. It will be Nigerian military. And if Nigerian military goes against this force that is building up, I think we might not be very, very happy. Well, I guess that we would cross our fingers and hope that the best decisions will be made in the interest of not just Nigerians, but across the people of Niger and those who live around them. Dennis Emakuri is a former deputy director of the State Services Department of State Services, that's the DSS. I want to say thank you so much for being here and giving us some background to this story. Thank you very much for having me. All right. Well, that's the show tonight. I want to thank you all for participating and watching. Don't forget, you can play catch-up on all of our previous episodes and conversations that we've had. Just go to Plus TV Africa on YouTube. And of course, you can catch up. My name is Mary-Anna Cullen. I will see you tomorrow as we continue to talk about developments. Have a good evening.