 If you've joined us, this is our annual Thanksgiving mother-daughter, who's the mother, who's the daughter? I'm asking an answer episode. This is kind of fun. You know, Fundraising Academy joins us weekend and week out and they support us so much. But this is kind of a fun thing because my daughter, Camely Joy Patrick Jennings, not always been in town with us during the holidays. And so this is kind of one of those things that we get to do. And so this is really a lot of fun. And we are super excited, Camely, that you would be here today and share with us. You know, your perspective on things you do work in the nonprofit sector and you have been engaged in the nonprofit sector pretty much all your life, right? So I would say that's really an important thing. You know, before we get into any more introductions, I want to make sure that I give a shout out of gratitude to our sponsors. They include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit thought leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that are really the backbone of going on now, almost four years for the nonprofit show, over 900 episodes. And so we extend our gratitude to these folks. If you've missed any of the episodes and you want to find out more or share some of this content, you can find us on our, as I like to call it, our sexy new app. Download the app with the QR code. You can find us on streaming and podcast platforms as well. Lots going on, a lot of ways to connect with us and all of the different things that we do. The second answer is only one part of what we do. But before we get going any further, Camely Joy, Patrick Jennings, hmm, that name, there's some resonance in that name. Tell us what you do. Yep. I am a marketing and project manager at GitHub. GitHub is a subsidiary of Microsoft and I'm on their social impact team. So it's a developer-focused collaboration platform. I am not a developer, but I work with our developers, our employees, the 100 million plus developers who are using GitHub, the platform to leverage their tech for good. So we don't have, you know, necessarily a traditional tech, big tech companies, grant making process, if you will. That's very common in industry, but rather we do in-depth programming that specifically caters to developers and leveraging their skills for good. Do you find that you are having to educate your members about what it means to be a philanthropic employee? Because I feel like some sectors over others already have that mojo. That's part of their corporate culture. What are you seeing within the framework of the tech world? Yeah. I mean, I would say yes and no. I think there's definitely a cohort of, we're just talking about employees who do volunteering in their day-to-day lives, but perhaps don't even recognize that it's volunteering, meaning it could be coaching their kids' football team, it could be volunteering in the PTA, it could be sitting on their alma mater's board, but they just don't realize that that's something that one of our company benefits is for every one hour you volunteer, you'll receive $20 to donate to the non-profit of your choice. Our team is always constantly working to say, hey, you're doing all these things, you're donating blood, for example. Those count. We're always trying to double their impact through messaging. Then there's also another cohort of folks, we're also an international company. Agriculture cultures, we're sitting here in the US that has a very strong sense of volunteerism and financial contributions, but other countries don't have that. We're also working to balance those different cultural aspects of what that means locally to activate employees in that sense. Wow. Is that a heavy lift? Is that hard to do? Yeah. I mean, yes and no. I think probably the hardest using air quotes lift would be that we are a remote first company. We have been since before the pandemic. It's just something that is within our company culture. I think that probably provides the most barriers, not just because of the work we do, but any employee communications is always just very difficult when you're in a remote environment because you always try to give several touch points honing in on the same message, but with us it's just limited because we're not seeing each other in person on a regular basis. I would say besides the fact that if someone has engaged in a volunteerism project before or not, it's just how do we communicate them through the few platforms that we have. I think just making that personal connect is super important to us and so we're always trying to drum up new ideas on how to reach employees that way. I have one more question. Do you have an English first situation in terms of communications? Yes. Okay. Yes. Everything that you're doing to engage and how many employees or it's not employees necessarily, but members of GitHub and the cohort, how many people are you trying to communicate and reach out to? Yes. The work we do is really twofold. One is our employees directly with them in our giving programs and then externally with developers. Our goal is if there's 100 million developers to use the platform, if we can just activate a small percentage of that to leverage their skills for good, how amazing is that these nonprofits need help. They need technical support and I think people think that non-profits are tech illiterate and don't use technology and GitHub is very technical, but they do use it and there's no reason they should and it's just how can we support them, not just the product, but really with services and volunteerism, not from just our employees, but also from a developer anywhere in the world who can spend a few hours of their time that really would make a difference to a non-profit. Fascinating. Well, we're thrilled you're here and I say let's get going because our first question is an interesting question that comes from your mother in Phoenix, Arizona. Oh my goodness. Okay. Your mother from Phoenix, Arizona writes in, Camely, while not new to the non-profit sector, you are engaged with board service now. What are some new skills you have learned with your non-profit board service? Great question. So, I have been on a board for just over a year now, as you said, first board and it's been super interesting. I have a communications and marketing background and so I've really tried to, I would say first I tried to take a step back and not just dive in, but really get to understand the work the non-profit does, who's on the board, who are the employees, what other skills are people bringing to the table and then trying to figure out what my skills can bring to the table. And so I would say probably after six to eight months or so, I finally said, okay, let me dive in now that I've kind of had a good assessment. We went through our annual gala. We went through a whole cohort of programming and so I really felt comfortable to really voice my opinion and so that's something that I always have ideas so it's not always easy to not say anything for some time. And so I really learned to just observe and then now I would say in the last maybe four months or so, I've really been more active and really being, I would say not up front is maybe an intense word, but really saying I'm the only one with the marketing and communication skills on this board. This is my suggestion. We don't have anyone specifically full-time position who is doing that work and so I can really bring a lot of expertise and just really been confident, I would say is probably a good word in my experience and my skills to helping the nonprofit with everything from annual marketing to bigger campaigns to narrative building and stuff like this. So I've learned that something that I might take for granted that it's just something I learned in my career is actually quite useful to someone else. And so I think that's been really special to kind of discover that I guess in the last few months. Do you feel, this is a follow-up question, do you feel that your age and not only your chronological age, but you being a new board member, so those two things, is that working against you and the way that the organization responds to your information and your expertise or do you have any sense of that? I would say no, which is refreshing because I think I don't know if that's unique. I think it might be I've been in a position where I've been early in my career and intern and then a full-time employee and there's always a big learning curve for other employees on how to treat you differently, similar to this scenario. But I would say I also will put the caveat that when I joined a large number of board members joined, so I wasn't the only person joining. So perhaps that's part of it. But no, there hasn't been any second guessing of my opinion based on my age, which I think I'm the youngest person. And then also my actual participation on the board. So no, which I've been very fortunate about, I guess. You are fortunate because my first major board I was on, and I had been on other boards, but this was a very significant board. I was the youngest person and I was a female, very few females. And for the first two or three meetings, the other old, I'll say it, white men board me, members would ask who I drove. Yeah. And I'd be like, at first, like the first time I didn't get it. I was like, well, I drove myself because I didn't get it. And then I realized they thought I was like somebody's secretary or caregiver, bringing them to the board meeting. Yeah, we, you know, this board where it's all female, so I don't have that. I think that it's, I think everyone's just there to learn. I think a lot of the other women on the board are, this is also their first board seat as well. And so I think it's a lot of us kind of in the same boat, which just creates a more welcoming environment, which is great, I think, for my first experience, you know, but also I, I mean, to your story, I caution that this is probably not super realistic for my next endeavor at some point. You know, this is, you know, Jarrett Ransom, the nonprofit nerd always says, if you've seen one board, you've seen one board. You know, they're, they're all 1.8 million nonprofits in this country. Governance is a huge thing and it should be consistent, but it's not. And so things are different. And so, okay, well, let's go to our next question. And interestingly enough, this question, do you want to, do you want to read it? Because it comes. Julia, you have worked with a lot of nonprofit boards. What is the next type of nonprofit you want to serve? Interesting. Great question. Good question, your daughter from Menlo Park. You know, I think what I want to do is focus on a national board or a board doing NGO work, you know, meaning they're working outside of our country. Because I've moved to a point in my knowledge bank where I can be more strategic. I don't have to be so community focused, which is, I've been my whole life. As you know with you, you've been community focused in many, many ways. But I think, I think this is my, I think that's my next thing. And I have a different perspective. And so, yeah, I don't know, it's kind of interesting. Okay, let's go to the next question that came in from Linda from Dayton, Ohio. Ooh, I bet it's cold there today. I'm just saying. Yes. Camely, as a millennial people born between 1981 and 1996, and who are now ages 27 to 42, how many of your cohort friends serve on nonprofit boards? This is a good question. Do these friends and acquaintances even want to serve on nonprofit boards? Yeah, I'm trying to think. You know, I would say that I come, I'm a part of, yes, I'm a millennial, but I would say I'm also living in a bubble where my LinkedIn connections, my Instagram friends, you know, my cohort of people are people who I've met through types of service like this. So I don't, I would say that the answer is yes. Like I do have friends who serve on their community boards, be it a small nonprofit or maybe something about bigger as they kind of works their way up in their career. But I would flag that, you know, I, it's because I'm a part of that cohort. If that makes sense, you know, I mean, it's, it's, I think, fantastic. I know people who sit on the boards of their, you know, city ballet or their local, you know, Chamber of Commerce or, you know, they're, they're alma maters. I mean, there's a lot of different positions, which is awesome to see. And that's really across mostly US based across the country. But again, I'll just flag that if you were to, I don't know, maybe look at someone's link, look at my LinkedIn versus looking at, you know, someone I went to high school with who's now in finance or something had a very different path, they probably wouldn't see the same content that I'm looking at of, you know, people involved. Not to negate that, but I just think I'm in this like weird bubble of people who are like-minded in that sense. So within your career trajectory, I mean, having gone to the school in the East and then serving, working for charity water, serving in the White House, working in a UN agency, would you find, do you think that those people that you worked with, just because of not only their, their work, but maybe their empathy or the things that they were around has driven them that way as well? Or is it just opportunity? Like you, you meet people and they, they're like, oh, come join us. You, you know, the score. Right. Um, you know, I think it's a bit of both. I think probably first it's the passion that we share in this type of person, you know, whether it was our upbringing, whether we had a, um, I know you talk about this, uh, I'm gonna say it's the aha moment, but it's your, your moment that really says, opens your eyes to say, oh, this is my call to serve or the passion that I want to follow. Um, I think that's probably a bigger driver than, oh, hey, this spot's open. Do you want to come join the board? You know, I think with the people I know that's probably leaning more towards that. Um, but needless to say, of course, I mean, a lot of it is networking and, and, you know, just finding that passion left or right. Um, but I will also say something that I, I have, um, fantastic mentee and I, she's, um, studied the same thing I did in university and she's looking, she's graduating soon and she's trying to figure out what she wants to do. And she, she wants to lead a, a career that is impacts driven, but it's, it's difficult. You know, you oftentimes have to take a pay cut or less benefits or move somewhere you don't want to. And so she's, she's toying with what do I do? And so I said, you can, if you find that great, but you can also find that passion project outside of work. And so I think that finding that balance is, you know, some of the people in my cohort back to that question is some of them, um, might have that in their job. I am lucky to have that in my job. Um, was what I've chosen to do, but doesn't mean you can't do that outside of work and kind of fill that gap if you're, if you're missing that. So I think some people have, have finding, are finding both. And I've also seen as I'm getting older, you know, people are a little more established on your career and they're looking for the outside of their career. Um, so I think that the passion and then having that little kind of void, if you will, is, is driving people to, to be more active. I love that. And I think that's, I think that's incredibly wise. Um, it kind of dovetails to this next question. And it comes to us from Houston and it's actual, and this happens every once in a while. An actual board or group will send in a question. And the question is this, when it comes to getting younger board members, which we've been chatting about, to participate in a give or get process, how can we make this commitment more achievable? We want to cultivate younger board members, but our $5,000 give or get is prohibitive. I think that's a high give or get, especially if you're looking for someone who's, um, uh, younger millennial, um, I think also now it's really tough with, I mean, macroeconomic climate we're in and companies are really not giving benefits like this anymore. Um, I think they're probably, um, they have employee benefits, meaning something like we have, you know, where it's like, oh, you can volunteer and get $20 or, or we'll match your contribution, which is great. But those are the types of things that start to go when budgets are being cut and workforces are being reduced. And so I think, you know, in a more traditional corporate America where they would say, okay, here's the budget for, or here's the product you can give or the services you can give, you know, via your job to a non-profit. I really don't know too many companies that are doing that right now, at least in my group of friends, um, you know, who are, have all different types of jobs, not just talking about tech. Um, so I would say that it seems to be a higher number and I would say it doesn't have to necessarily come from the company they work for, but you could focus on, um, you know, ticket sales for a fundraiser or just donations from family and friends. But it's tough. I mean, that gets repetitive year after year. If your commitment's three years and you're asking the same people to, you know, participate, you know, in this non-profit you support, you know, it's, it's not easy. And no, no one likes to ask for money. That's scary, you know. So, well, it is hard. And as you know, I do a lot of public speaking and, um, years ago I came up with a solution that worked for me at a young age and that was to develop, if you will, a scholarshiping. And I think you can do that for a lot of different things. Now, I'm not saying you can, you can scholarship, you know, 70% of your board, but you could scholarship in, you know, one, two, three. And you need to make it very clear, like, wow, this is, to the board, it can be very transparent. This is why we're doing this. And I think it's brilliant. I think it's an easy way to get new blood in and then cultivate something different. Yeah, I love that idea. I think, I think, and also, you know, it just increases their board diversity, which is so important, you know, from skills to age to demographics. It's so important to have a different perspective. So, but yeah, I would say a lot of people who I know who are interested in looking for board service have never heard of a scholarship option. And that is the give or get is something that is, is primitive because they're like, oh gosh, that's a lot of money, you know, and because I'm already giving my time and then, you know, so it's, it's kind of a, it's tricky, but I love that idea. Well, thank, yeah. I mean, I think it's just one of those things that we need to be thinking about what it is we need for our boards, how we're going to navigate that, that talent mix and then figure out how we bring that talent in. Also, the other thing is, you know, 1.8 million nonprofits in the U.S. There's a lot of competition. Yeah, good talent, right? So, you know, you have to be thoughtful about this and the $5,000 is or 10,000 or 100,000, whatever it might be, is not the money that should be running the organization. Yes. Right? So, I mean, that needs to be a little bit more creative. And, you know, look at that. Well, it's hard to believe that another year of the Mother-Daughter episode on the nonprofit show has come to a close. It's been very exciting to see Kamely Jo Patrick Jenks. You might recognize one of those last names. I'm just saying. Marketing and Project Manager, Social Impact at GitHub. GitHub.com. Fascinating work that you do. It touches all of our lives and so many people don't know about. They might have seen your logo somewhere out and about, but this is really interesting work that you're doing. And thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving to you. I just am so excited to be able to have these conversations with you. You bring a really rich and robust perspective to how the nonprofit sector works on so many different levels. And it's truly an honor to be your mother. I am very thankful in the spirit of Thanksgiving. So I say thank you. And so you might have to wait a whole year to have Kamely Jo Patrick Jenks back on the nonprofit show. But check out the day after Thanksgiving because it's always kind of fun. Again, we have amazing sponsors and they include Blumerang American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that help us get this content out. Again, Kamely, more than 900 shows we're marching towards 1000, which will happen in early 2024. Wow. Oh my gosh. Big celebration. Can't wait for that. I know we do. Jared Ransom was like, look, we can't just say, oh yeah, today's our 900th show like we did. We need to like have something. Yeah. A whole week dedicated to the big day. I mean, that's huge. That's wild. Yeah, it is kind of crazy, but it's an amazing thing. Well, hey, you know what? Kamely, again, I'm just delighted that you could join us and be a part of a really interesting perspective from so many, so many ways and routes that you come to a life of service and working in a much, in a very profound way from, you know, being a little girl and working on so many different organizations and projects that you found your own. Didn't always come from your dad and I. I mean, things that you would, you know, show up when you learned to drive. You were driving downtown Phoenix to serve food at Andre House by yourself. So, I mean, it's pretty cool to see this trajectory and we're incredibly proud of you. So, thank you very much. Thank you. The apple does not fall far from the tree, as I think I'd say every year. So, thank you. I don't know. I think I try and kick it away from the tree every once in a while. You shouldn't. You shouldn't. Oh, my gosh. Well, hey, everybody, we end every episode with our mantra and it means different things every single day, honestly. And it goes like this, to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here on Monday. Camely Jennings, enjoy your weekend, my love. Thank you. Bye. Bye.