 Next question is from MFS Wellness. What are some of the most effective psychological tactics you've used to help clients overcome their attempts to quit on themselves? When is it appropriate to refer a person to a professional behavior therapist? All right. So let's start with the first part. So, and I hate to use word tactics. I feel like that sounds like you're tricking someone, which is silly. You're not going to trick someone into long-term fitness and health success. Now, my experience, the best strategy is how you go into the process to begin with. So if you go into it with self-hate, I hate my body. I hate the way I look. That's it. I can't take it anymore. You're going to fail. You have to go in from a standpoint of self-care. And then there's another part, which is I always talk to my clients about motivation and why it's fleeting, not to rely on it and rather to develop the skill of discipline. When someone goes in with self-care with a slow methodical build discipline, the skill of discipline approach, the success rate is much higher. You see a little, you see more balance and you see less of the quitting or at least quitting forever with their workouts. So I have two things. One, to take from Jordan Peterson, aim low. So not giving them this massive target. A lot of times they come in and they have this huge goal and they're focused on that huge goal. So getting them away from thinking about this goal that you know is going to take months or potentially years and not to focus on that and to give them small, obtainable, realistic goals that they can start hitting them within the first week. So I think that's the first strategy. The other thing that, and I was just talking to Vicki as she was doing, lining us up today and we were talking about when I competed and she was asking me questions about like, you know, what do you attribute like the success of it and this and that. You know, it's funny. It's like there wasn't anything magical at all. In fact, probably the thing that made the biggest difference was the consistency. I never in that my life have been that consistent with my diet and training, even as a personal trainer. I mean, I still fall off and have weekends where I do whatever. And one of the games that I played with myself was I would compete with how many days in a row that I did well on the diet and or training. And that could, when you're day one, that's zero. So accomplishing one or two days in a row is your first record, right? And so let's just say, inevitably by day five, you have a mishap. You eat off the diet or you don't get your training session in like you're supposed to. And so I would start back at zero again. I would pick myself back up. It's not a big deal. Shit happens. It's going to, it's inevitable. But now the new goal is to beat five days in a row. Can I get five days in a row more than five days in a row, which so six would be a success or more? And I would just keep doing that until, you know, five days, seven days, 13 days started to turn into months. And then eventually in this case, turn into years. And so I would do the same thing with clients with the idea of like, all right, let's, you know, here's our small goals. Our goal is to see how many days we can be consistent with this once they do that. It's okay when they come to me. Oh, Adam, I fucked up. I did this week. That's okay. You know, you got nine days of us being really good. Now, okay, tomorrow we start at zero again, the goal is to get to 10. And you just, you keep doing that. I found a lot of success with, with helping clients stay on track. Now the brilliance of that, what you're saying, and there's a lot of different versions of what you're saying, but the brilliance of it is you're comparing yourself to yourself. And you're comparing yourself to yourself recently. So it's a fair comparison. I think that one of the biggest mistakes people make is they compare themselves to other people, or they compare themselves to themselves when it was a totally different circumstance. Like, man, when I was in my twenties, I was like so dialed in. Like, yeah, we didn't have a mortgage. You didn't have kids. You didn't have, you know, this type, this job. Like, so what you're saying is, is, is very brilliant because it's only, it's the only real fair comparison is, okay, how did I just do recently? Okay, I did this well. Can I beat myself? Like I did, you know, last week with what I'm doing. Yes, I can. And then you get that kind of, that momentum going. Yeah. And usually people that are in that situation where it's like, like, you feel that sense they're not coming back and they just want to quit. And it really, it's assessing like how much, you know, they're, they're, they're taking on like, what are, what are all these things in your head that you think like aren't working and, and what's, you know, like how can we, how can we bring it back to just focus on a few things that you know, like this is just something I do all the time. And let's like slowly build on that. It's just, it's one of those things as a young trainer, it's like, why won't they do this? And let's, let's figure out a strategy to, you know, make you more consistent. And it just has never worked like that for me. Like I have to be there as the accountability. And I'm always here as the rock for you to come back to it and go through this. But really it's like, this is your journey. And so you have to basically figure that out. Well, and to address the second part of this question, I don't think it's ever a bad idea not to hire somebody that's a professional. If they are in a position where either work or they can afford to have a professional, a mental health expert that is supporting them through this, it's only going to help. Now, we all have experience in that we're all well red in that in that area. And we know that part of the job is kind of like being that, although we're not one. So anytime that I can get a professional to assist me, I mean, I would recommend that right out the gates. Certainly, if I, all the, the, the tactics and the things that I'm trying, I'm continuing to fail, or they can't get past a mental hurdle, right? They keep coming back and telling me like the same excuse or the same story. If I, if I, because here's the thing that's a lot of times people will tell, will say this the same story over and over and over. If they're giving me what I think is kind of that same story. And I've tried to help them overcome that. I'm going to really push in that direction. But again, I mean, it wouldn't hurt him to do that. My best success with clients was when they worked with me and a therapist. And I always would work with the therapist. By the way, if you're a trainer, here's the strategy. What you don't do is tell your client, Hey, I think you need to see a therapist because that'll prop, I'm serious. That'll, that's not going to work. What you do is you find a good therapist and then you know them by name. And then when the person hires you, working with them, say, Hey, look, I've had some other clients have a tremendous success with working with me and, you know, John Smith or whatever their name is. So when they work with me and John Smith, it's incredible. We're a really good team. It's very effective. Let me know if you want me to send you over to go see him. Just like, just like that. Leave it at that. Now, the other times I would recommend is when you're dealing with severe obesity or there's any hint of some kind of a dysfunction, a clinical dysfunction that has to do with eating. So if someone says to you, Hey, I've, you know, I've had an eating disorder before or it looks like there may be some issues with that. Again, have someone that you have a name of that you can recommend to them and don't, and make sure you recommend it in a way that you think is effective. So again, I would say something like, Hey, I work with this other person who works with all my clients. Oh my gosh, we're such a great team. Joseph Smith. Yeah. Let me know if you'd like to. Yeah. One of the best ways of doing that to make people feel comfortable is to say that you do that with a lot of your clients. Yes. I have a lot of success with most of my clients that choose to do this. So they don't feel like they're alone. They're this only, they're the only ones that got to go see a mental therapist that trains with you. But I mean, working with them is what I would do all the time. So I'd work with the, the therapist. And of course we get the permission from the client. The client knows that we're sharing information. And the therapist would say something to me like, Hey, there, you know, we talked a lot about eating and, you know, it would not work well for them to count calories or to count macros or don't weigh them. This is not something that you should do. And I'd say, Well, I'm going to focus on performance now. We're going to focus on strength. What do you think they'd be like, Yes, that's a good idea. But working together like that. Oh my gosh. So by the way, if you are a personal trainer, this is someone DM me the other day about getting their kinesis and in a minor in psychology. And I said, man, you probably, you can't, I don't think you can come up with a better combo. And so if you're a trainer and you have either kinesis or you've got national certifications, I highly recommend reading in this direction because this I found a passion for reading this direction. And I can't tell you how much it helped with coaching this, this, these types of clients, because I mean, are all clients for that matter, even if they don't have some sort of a disorder or they're mentally challenged in this area. I mean, having that, that background and understanding and empathy when you're talking to any and all clients, tremendously. Oh yeah. I mean, towards the end of my career, I had in house, I had a physical therapist, a massage therapist and an acupuncturist. So those were the people in house, but I also worked with a hormone specialist who was off site. So I'd find these people and I'd work with them, talk with them and I'd say something like, Hey, I'm a local trainer. I would like to send clients your way who I think may have hormonal issues and we're going to say no, of course. And of course you find a good one to see how that work out. So I had someone that I would refer to there. I had therapists that I would send people to. So I'd have this repertoire of people that I could refer to and you know how valuable that made me as a trainer. It's like, I know someone don't worry, we can work with them. And it was wonderful. I think that should be every trainer's goal if you want to be really effective and successful.