 Daily Tech News show is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to all of you, including Paul Boyer, Brad, Kevin Morgan, and Nathan Johns. On this episode of DTNS, tech companies testify to the U.S. Senate. Is there anything worth hearing? We'll tell you. Plus, Tiktok and the Universal Music Group are fighting in public over royalties. And why is the Call of Duty GM now president of Blizzard? Was there an election was it an overbought? This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, January 31st, 2024. We are all out of January, folks in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And for the last day of January at Studio Animal House, I'm Sarah Lane. Also, I'm preferred to look forward to February. I'm Scott Johnson from Salt Lake City. And I'm the show's producer, Roger. I came here to chew gum all by the press. And use January. And we're all out of January. Well, I like it. So I guess I should go. Hey, Microsoft is in on the Apple Vision Pro. It said that Teams, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, OneNote, Loop and Co-Pilot all will be available on the Apple Vision Pro February 2nd. Take that Netflix. Let's start with the quick hits. On Monday, a man named Chase Whiteside shared screen shots with ours Technica showing conversations in his chat GPT query history that were not made by him. They include sensitive information like usernames and passwords for a pharmacy prescription drug portal. Open AI looked into the issue and believes it's result of a compromised account. Open AI says the conversations appear to be from Sri Lanka and logged successful logins to Whiteside's account from Sri Lanka at the appropriate times. Whiteside logs in from Brooklyn himself. That's in New York, not Sri Lanka. Whiteside says he has a complex password. He hasn't reused it anywhere else. So it seems unlikely it would have been stolen all that easily. A mystery wrapped inside of a chat GPT. Epic is going to file a complaint. We knew it was coming. But now we know what it is. They will file their complaint in the Northern California US District Court in Oakland, saying that Apple's implementation of the court order that says it has to let app makers link out to alternative payment methods from their apps violates the order. The way they're following the order does not comply with the way the order was met is what Epic's going to try to convince the judge. Epic is particularly challenging Apple's requirement. The developers pay 27% of revenues, a 3% discount from the revenue share if you use Apple's own payment system. Most court experts feel that Apple is within the order and that Epic's probably not going to win the case. FTX announced it will focus on liquidating its assets to repay customers whose cryptocurrency deposits were locked when the company filed for bankruptcy in November of 2022, rather than find a buyer which it had been doing up until now to keep it afloat. Reuters reports that FTX had already recovered around $7 billion in assets and has reached agreements with various government regulators who have agreed to wait until customers are fully repaid before attempting to collect on an additional around $9 billion in claims. For US senators from two different parties have proposed the disrupt explicit forged images and non consensual edits act, aka the defiance act. Really, they didn't save that acronym for something else. Okay, it would let people sue for financial damages from anyone who knowingly produced or processed intimate digital forgeries depicting an identifiable person without that person's consent. So this is the latest attempt at this. And the first one since we had the whole Taylor Swift thing last week, the bill applies to images made by software, machine learning, artificial intelligence, or any other computer generated or technological means, so that would include Photoshop, to appear to a reasonable person to be indistinguishable from an authentic visual depiction of an individual. General Motors said on Tuesday, it reduced the company annual budget by around $1 billion while the unit is still out of operation. Following an accident that happened in San Francisco, where a woman who was struck by a human driver was then dragged by a cruise vehicle that did not have a human driver before being rescued. Cruise faces various government probes, including one from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Reuters reports that cruise executives internally told some engineering and operation staff, they don't expect to see robotoxys on city streets again until the fourth quarter of 2024, but also that the company is considering cities like Houston and Dallas as places to expand operations. All right, let's talk about that Senate Judiciary Committee. US senators on the committee accused five major tech platforms on Wednesday of facilitating child sexual abuse material also known as CSAM. Shao Jichu, CEO of TikTok, Jason Citron, CEO of Discord, Evan Spiegel, CEO of Snap, Linda Jacarino, CEO of X, and Merck Zuckerberg, CEO of Metta, were all in attendance in a Washington hearing over these allegations. Again, just a hearing. Facing questions from lawmakers though about how well their online platforms do protect children and those lawmakers wanting some examples of that and what more they might be doing. Starting with Metta, the company announced back in November, it was joining a tech coalition called the Lantern program in order to share information about accounts that violate child safety policies. Metta currently finds and reports various CSAM files on its platforms. It says it reports them to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children as well. Yeah, and unless we mislead you, CSAM was not what the entire hearing was about. The hearing was about mental health in general. There was just a lot of discussion of this, because it's definitely a hot issue. X said in a blog post Friday that it is determined to make X inhospitable for actors who seek to exploit minors. X says it has suspended 12.4 million accounts for violating CSAM policies in 2023. Quite a bit up from 2.3 million accounts that suspended in 2022. And X says that the increases because it's better at detecting they found more of these and they were missing them before. TikTok says it uses its own detection systems for CSAM and has partnered with other organizations to detect and remove content in addition to controls to protect kids accounts and to detect when users might be underage. Snap says that it uses technology including something called photo DNA and Google's child sexual sexual abuse imagery match to detect and combat CSAM as well and endorse the Kids Online Safety Act last week, which was first reported by the Hill. Snap also announced new protections for teens last fall. And Discord published a blog post in December about a new model that it developed to detect CSAM as well. It also says it's working with other tech companies to identify and combat the material. Alright, so Scott, it sounds like there are a variety of approaches happening by these rather large companies that we just mentioned. Not everybody's doing the exact same thing. Would it would it behoove the companies to to to to get on board with something that they all do the same way? I don't know how that works when the platforms operate so differently. There's a there's a sense that if you standardize a solution that everybody can adopt it. I don't think it's as easy as that sounds. That sounds really easy on paper, but that's always kind of hard to implement. And you'd hope that self regulation would win out here so that they can, I don't know, better control their own destinies rather than having somewhat uninformed governmental, you know, invasion in their process or being a bigger part of their business. So I think it's really good that they're all working hard at it. At least they say they are, you know, in X's case, they don't have to report stuff publicly anymore. So who knows what those numbers really are. For me, the interesting one here is Discord. Because Discord while not a closed system, in other words, there's plenty of public Discord you can go sign up for and be in. Mine is one of those. For the most part, though, it's it's like forums, you seek it out, you have to go in there and you're in there. It's not like a public facing micro blog like Twitter or X or something like Facebook where you're putting things on a public wall. And the fact that that is probably a place rife with this problem, if I had to guess, people think that place is very secure in terms of no one's watching them. I think they may make a huge impact if they can do it right. Because that's a kind of a hidden little place and everybody thinks it's safe to send a DM to a friend and no one's going to see this. It's a DM. So I'd like to hear that they're, you know, trying to do what they can to work on that. But all of these are important, obviously. I just don't think there's a one size fits all. If there is, that would be great. But where are you going to find that? Yeah, and I'm probably the only one who's this cynical. But I don't think any of this is worth the attention that it's been given today. I think the Washington Post is overemphasizing this, because what happens with these politicians is they get up, and they find the thing that people are the least likely to want to take issue with. In this case, CSAM, right? Nobody wants it. They make a big deal out of saying we demand answers from people. They get tech companies to talk about things they were already doing. It has a positive of bringing some attention and getting us to talk about it today. But I think that's all it does. I don't think it material changes things because we've had this conversation before with Google and Apple and others about operating systems and messaging. So I'm kind of disappointed in the Washington Post. What's being shuttled in the background during this hearing, while there's a lot of posturing and a lot of points scoring, is getting more tech companies to get on board with the Kids Online Safety Act, which again, sounds great. You want kids to be safe online. That bill is very similar to me to the to the encryption bill in that it says, we're not going to require you to do age verification, but we will require you to do all of these things that you can probably only do if you verify ages. And as soon as you start verifying ages, you're verifying identities and you're forcing children to give more information to these companies, which is kind of the opposite of what most people want this to happen. So I just want to shine a light on that. That Kids Online Safety Act I think is the bigger news coming out of this. Yeah, I don't know. And like I said, I think that the less the industry has to rely on intervention by government, the better off this whole scene is going to be. I don't know how they're going to come together on it. They're all competing in different ways. But this is one more. I think it would be who then become together. It worked for the gaming industry in the 90s. It worked for film before that, at least at varying degrees and the government stays out of it now pretty much. Go for something like that, work together and then then you won't have to have these empty hearings. Maybe. Oh, sorry, sorry. Go ahead. That's okay. I was going to say, just to go back to your point, Tom, that, you know, the whole figuring out how to verify if someone is a child, you know, even if they're on a platform that technically they shouldn't be on, you know, until they're a certain age. Okay, let's verify that. So that if something like, you know, a CSAM situation arises, then it's that much easier for law enforcement to go after the bad guys. We all go, okay, that sounds pretty good. You know, we don't want the bad guys to proliferate, right? But it also, again, turns into data collection thing where people say, well, whoa, whoa, whoa, we don't want to do that either. So it's sort of like, all right, we really want the bad stuff to go away while trying to enforce, you know, the whatever is going to be the best for individual rights going forward. And I think a lot of these companies are just sort of like, we don't want the bad guys either, but they're here. And if we do a lot of this other stuff, then you're going to be mad at us about that too. Yeah. And that's why this is not a place where you're going to solve this today. You need more technical solutions, you need cooperation between law enforcement, you need to have a serious conversation, not this kind of political posturing. Universal music group, aka UMG says negotiations have broken down with TikTok over royalties from the use of songs on the platform. And both sides have done what you do when you really want more money out of the other person, you take your negotiations into the public and get the public to try to put pressure on the other side to close the deal. So so it sounds like they're doing the right thing for the world when they're really just increasing your bottom line. UMG says the issue is over artist compensation, combating copyright infringement specifically from the use of AI and about online safety. As a matter of fact, because think of the children, everyone should think of the children. TikTok says it offers an artist first revenue deal and it's so disappointed in UMG that it just won't take it. It's hurting the artists. Both sides call each other names in their press releases. And it's not useful for us to quote those names because that's just them playing their propaganda game. But that's the essentials of what they said. The existing deal expires January 31st. So by the time many of you hear this UMG music will have disappeared from TikTok, and then we'll wait to see who blinks first. Let's talk for a second about it a second. We'll talk about who these artists are. So people kind of know what they're going to be missing. But I will say without any hesitation that a large portion of music that I discover these days, not actively seek out by name, but stuff I hadn't heard of and then I turned on to and then go find it is coming from stuff like this. It comes from TikToks. It comes from YouTube shorts and it comes from reels. And I don't find these in any other way. I don't I'm not just sitting on Spotify and having it say, hey, you might like this. And suddenly that thing appears. I'm finding it in these TikTok videos. And I know kids are and I know a sizable portion of users are. I think this is really dumb for UMG like songs are being written specifically to be easily excerpted on TikTok. Yeah, yeah, you know, even the songs that are more of like big hits, they're going to be, you know, top of the Billboard charts, you know, TikTok or not. Those songs, you know, you get a meme going. Yeah, all of a sudden that bad bunny song is not just like a popular song. It's like a popular by millions of amateur TikTok creators who are trying to, you know, get into the algorithm, you know, and and and and get noticed. And for that reason, I can see why Universal's like, well, we're giving you this and look where, you know, look how far it's it's traveling on your platform. And maybe we should be thanked a little bit more for that. And TikTok is saying, yes, we may not be giving you more than one percent of your revenue, which is what UMG claims. But because you go viral on TikTok, you sell way more albums, you stream way more albums on Spotify. And so they're both. It's like who's helping whom? Yeah, nobody's wrong here. Like they're both right. Like, yes, TikTok, you need UMG. You want to have Bad Bunny and the weekend and SZA and Drake on your platform. You absolutely do. But also, UMG, you need TikTok these days. That's that's how you make a hit. Your songs will not do as well. If they're not getting the full boost on TikTok, particularly the emerging artists, right? Bad Bunny is going to be fine. He may not stream as many songs and make as many royalties, but he'll be fine. But the new artists from UMG, they're going to have a harder time breaking out if they don't have TikTok. And they both besides know this, they're both going to agree on a number. It's just they're too far apart on the number right now. So they're trying to get us to join one of their sides and go, you're the, you're the proper side. Well, even on, even on the list of artists, one of those affected is Post Malone, I noticed. And the interesting and being a thing about Post career is he got his big break and start doing stuff for SoundCloud. That's where he moves, putting his music and he got noticed there with free posts and then things exploded. Well, now he's under their brand and no longer can be over there. To me, that's just a huge irony that you're going to you're going to stop your potential up and comers from that same kind of viral access to listeners. And I just think it's like usual with the with most of the music business. I don't want to throw everyone under the bus. It's just UMG we're talking about. I'm sure others are watching very carefully right now, by the way, how this ends up going for them because they all would like more money too. But but doing this just seems like you are cutting off your nose despite your face. And I think it's a very bad move. It's also a bad move for TikTok, though, like why not just, you know, you need this music on your platform. You don't want somebody to be like, oh, well, TikTok is to have all these songs at the ready. You know, I can't do any of that. Much people are going to be upset. Maybe I'll go to Instagram. Yeah, look who's not on here. Taylor Swift, Bad Bunny, Sting, The Weekend. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Taylor Swift. Yeah. Taylor's version is. Oh, OK. Well, that's one. That's an interesting one because the ones that the reason she is doing Taylor's version is that she doesn't control the originals up until, like, is it 1989? Or is it the album after that? I think it's the album after that after that. So with you and G pulling from TikTok, that means only the ones she doesn't want you to use will be available on TikTok. I feel like that's one of the more fascinating aspects is are people going to hold the line for Taylor? Most of the Swifties will, but as everybody go hold the line and not use those Taylor versions, even though they're there and wait for this. So there's there's another bit of pressure on both sides, right? UMG wants people to use the other Taylor versions, not the ones they don't have. And it's also it's a perfect time if you ask me to stir up a bunch of dirt with Swifties. Perfect time for that. Let's get that going. I'm sure there'll be no fallout. There isn't any other big things in the news with Taylor Swift. We should absolutely mention earlier in the show. Yeah, we should just let that. I'm sure it's fine. No big deal. Just because sometimes I try to think of the what we're talking about out of context. If somebody is not familiar with TikTok being like what? So wait a second. The artists are all on. It's like most a lot of what we're talking about is a song that gets used millions and millions of times. You know, it is just it's a dub over somebody dancing or making a funny video with some captions kind of thing. It's not it's not just like a music video from this artist. It's the song being used in a variety of ways. If you need Sarah to explain TikTok to you in more detail, you can get in touch with us on the social networks. DTNS show on X DTNS show at MSTDN dot social on Mastodon Daily Tech News show on TikTok and DTNS PIX DTNS PIX on Instagram and on threads. On Monday, Microsoft announced Joanna Ferries as the new president of Blizzard Entertainment starting February 5th. Ferries joined Activision Blizzard as a commissioner for Call of Duty's eSports division. And then as Call of Duty's franchise's general manager prior to Activision Blizzard, Ferries served as the VP for the NFL's Club Business Development. Now, Scott, I know you're following this closely. So I think a lot of people are saying, all right, the GM of Call of Duty, first person shooter, military shooter game, the head of a Blizzard Entertainment huge studio that is maybe known perhaps more for, you know, real time strategy and multiplayer battle arena type games. What gives? Well, all right. It's been a really dark month over there at Blizzard. I laugh in exasperation. I have a lot of friends there that are very frustrated. Basically, and just to get this out of the way, the guy who took her place is Matt Cox. He's taken over that role of senior vice president and general manager of Call of Duty. That's effective immediately. Immediately. She is not quite yet installed as the president of Blizzard. Blizzard's previous president and go to dude was let not let go, but claims he's leaving for greener pastures as of a week ago. It's difficult to say whether he was pressured or what the deal is there. So that kind of brings us current. There are many concerned that because she comes from the Activision side of things, that this is not a win. Despite the fact that I think it's great that we can get some female leadership at the company, which has never really been the case. There was a dual leadership in the in the past, but that did not work out. And I would love to see that. I think everybody would love to see that. But she's coming from a part of the company and many people attribute a lot of their internal issues and the problems they're having now and the layoffs and a lot of the stuff is being laid at the at the the feet of outgoing CEO Bobby Kotick, who's now gone and they were hoping for somebody internally at Blizzard who's been around this stuff and knows the games and knows the people and the passions and the whatever it takes to make Blizzard run. But that would be where she would come from. And instead, they took her from Activision, which nobody is happy about. So that's one little thing just from a cultural standpoint, people are concerned with. She's got a ton of experience in eSports. That's good. But they also had huge layoffs this week in eSports. It wasn't her. She's not in yet. But they laid off a bunch of key roles at Blizzard in the last little bit in their eSports division. People kind of saw that coming, but it is ironic that this person with so much eSports experience is coming over and seeing that go away just before she gets here. She has a lot of experience, though, in running and helping run one of the world's biggest, I'm sorry, the world's biggest gaming yearly franchises as an annual franchise. Nothing is as big as Call of Duty. Nothing at all. There's some games as a service. You look at Fortnite and say, well, there's actually more generated revenue or something. But those aren't released every year. That's an ongoing service for a game that comes out every year and costs you your 60 bucks or more. This is King of the Hill. That seems like good experience. Like, to me, that seems like something to manage the tar that's big. And so she's probably got the chops to do this stuff. How it affects games and gamers, though, which is really where I wanted to go with this. So that brings everybody to what's happening. Probably not much in the short term. There's not a lot happening in the short term anyway. With the layoffs recently, we found out they're Blizzard's upcoming unannounced, but, you know, mentioned job offers for survival game got canceled. They got canned completely, and that entire team, for the most part, set off into the wind. They were part of the layoffs. And so there's not a lot on the horizon in terms of new stuff. There's a lot of expectation for World of Warcraft being back in the focus, back in the main wheelhouse that Blizzard focuses on. And I think that that's probably true. They've got big plans for future content, and there's a lot going on there. But Diablo 4 probably just going to keep cooking the way it goes and doing what it does. You will see significant drop, I think, is a prediction. So blame me if I'm wrong. But a drop in regular content updates from Overwatch, Hearthstone, certainly from Heroes of the Storm, which is already kind of in maintenance mode. And that's kind of all they got going. They do have their new mobile game, Warcraft Rumble. It is doing well. Mobile games make a lot of money. As far as I know, that's continuing to make money. I don't know how prominent it is on the charts currently. But those things will just sort of still be there. Some of them will get a little less attention, and we are not going to get any new franchise information for a while. And my personal belief is maybe this will change under her leadership. But I don't think there's a BlizzCon this year or maybe again. I think this might spell the end of that because that is a big money hog. And they are clearly in the mode right now of trimming every piece of fat possible and taking care of every redundancy possible. And in light of that, I just don't know how that event happens. Also, when you cut out your entire eSports division, pretty much they've gutted it. Let me run. Let me run a theory about you there. Go give it. You look at the eSports decision, your Microsoft, right? You coming in, you're like looking at eSports and you're like, this is a failure. This is not working. Does it is that is that wrong for me to say that? I think you could from the outside. I think Call of Duty's eSports is no, no, no. On the face of it. You're looking at Blizzard's eSports, but that's I'm saying, I guess what I'm saying is I agree with you. eSports in general are in a bit of a problem everywhere. So maybe what Microsoft says is clear out the fat, to lay off the things that aren't working, trim that down, bring in Johanna, Johanna and have her build this back up because that's what we need. And then you do have a BlizzCon in the future, but it's an eSports event because that's the new focus of the company. That is entirely possible. And there's so much about BlizzCon that was eSports focused in their best years. So so I think that's a decent theory. Here's the exception. Yeah, here's here's the only problem. Well, well, they really have was they didn't have much. They had the Warcraft Final stuff and they had a little bit of overwatch. But they had the Overwatch World thingy. Yeah, but that's even done now that league got dissolved like they pulled so far back on it. Here's the problem with that your only problem here because I actually think it's OK. I think that Ferries comes in and you could say, all right, bring that eSports blood back in here. Let's get that up and do in the Microsoft's idea or whatever. The problem is Call of Duty eSports is also not a success. It's not that doesn't done very well either. And they've not that they haven't tried. It's just that this is a tough nut to crack and everybody wants to just throw money at it and it hasn't been working the way it needs to work. So while what you say is possible and it's a way to restart something like this or maybe maybe it's a fresh look at eSports like, all right, well, we've learned all our bad lessons. Now let's do what's realistic with eSports and what we think is sustainable. Or I mean, I don't know if BlizzCon isn't happening immediately just because the company is doing some restructuring and and and, you know, getting back on its feet. What what would it look like? What would an ideal BlizzCon look like for you? Well, for me, it's always been about community and friends and and, you know, listeners and people at the company that you get to meet and hang out with and that sort of stuff. So for me, I would still want that. That's always what I've cared about. The the eSports has been very secondary for me. So they could still do a BlizzCon and have a completely focused around that. In fact, the last one was much more focused around that. It's not that they couldn't. I just get the feeling that the way morale is in there right now is very, very bad. Maybe the worst it's ever been from what I from what I'm hearing. And if that's true, trying to get that place all hyped up to do another community event when the community's morale is pretty low about the state of things and are mad about these layoffs. Everything I just a year or two. Yeah, which we already kind of did. The future of Blizzard is not BlizzCon. That's that's no bit of a side question. No, but it does mean there's a fundamental change happening. And this old vision, whether it was true or not that Blizzard was this magical place we could all gather may have been more smoke and mirrors than we thought. And by that, I just mean it's another company who are in it to make money. Bottom line. All companies are in it to make money. There's companies out there that are not. I hate to see you, everybody, but Blizzard actually wants to make money. You're not wrong at all, but they have always sold themselves as more than that. And I'm just saying that's going to bite them in the butt this time around. I don't think I don't think anyone's. Well, maybe next time are these layoffs that everything will be OK after this. Like this is the final problem. We're all feeling like, you know, it's the tooth fairy is not real. Santa Claus never existed. Sorry, kids. And I shouldn't tell you. I don't know who's listening to the show today. But those are just examples of the kind of horrible news that this is like, were they true? Yeah, you're under the edge of nine. Of course, those aren't true. We're just saying, yeah. Right. Go talk to your parents. That's exactly the kids ask your parents. All right, let's check out the mailbag. Let's do it. Justin wrote in in response to Monday's show discussion we had with Chris Ashley on battery power stations. He said we have one of the smaller eco flow batteries that manages to power a CPAP overnight a couple of nights in a row. But that's about all it does. I didn't hear mention of how long the generator style of these last here in the Midwest, where Justin lives last year, we had a power outage that lasted just under five days first time ever more than just a few hours. And we ended up buying an actual generator for this reason with climate change, bringing on bigger storms and the power grid getting hit by wind storms like to reaches. These are going to be continuing problems. Justin says we were able to keep our fridge and freezer running and keep our phones charged. And we charge our eco flow chart and recharge our eco flow charged for those days. Once we bought the gas based generator. Yeah, we did. We did mention you probably got lost in the shuffle. We did mention some numbers on how long these battery power backups last. And the answer is if you can spend enough money on them, you can have them power your whole home for up to a week. That's spending tens of thousands of dollars at that point. But but yeah, if you get a big one like Chris has, I know he had he was hesitant to say exactly how long, but you can definitely do a whole home for 24 hours and and probably for a couple of days off of these. So they are they are getting equivalent with gas generators in capacity, possibly not equivalent in in price, of course. But then you also you can solar power them, you don't have to buy gas and all that. So that's where that that ends up. But that's a great question. I also have been going back and forth with TJ on emails about whether you properly call them generators because as he legitimately points out, they don't generate the power. They store the power. But I think if you if you make that distinction, it sometimes is confusing to people because they are used in place of a generator. Well, thanks to everybody who writes us feedback at Daily Tech News Show dot com. Keep that feedback coming. And Scott Johnson, you keep coming on back to this show as well. Because you're always you're always a good time. Let folks know where they can keep up with you when you're not on the show. Well, if you want to hear more riveting commentary about what's happening at Blizzard and other things in the video game business, me and two of my closest friends do a little show called CORE on Thursdays, Thursday evenings. We do it live. We also put it up like a podcast like you would expect. And while it goes long, it goes deep. We have so so much stuff to say about these kinds of issues. And if you want to hear more, check it out. That's at frogpants dot com slash CORE. Now patrons, you know the show isn't over for you. Everybody's on the free feed. Thank you. Goodbye. Have a great day. Good, you know, go go do your thing. But if you're a patron, stick around for the extended show, Good Day Internet. Another interesting and practical use for generative models predicting fashion trends. And they're doing it the right way. This is that this is how you use AI. Stick around for that. Reminder, you can catch our show live Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. Eastern. That is 2100 UTC. Find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live. We're going to talk talking a little bit more tomorrow about COSA, the Kids Online Safety Bill Act with Justin Robert Young joining us. Talk to you then. The DTNS family of podcasts helping each other understands the Diamond Club helps you have enjoyed this program.