 Am I taller than you? Is this a good height? Okay, hello, okay. Hello, welcome back after the break. If everybody could please take a seat, that'd be wonderful. Okay. I wanted to just make an announcement for those who weren't aware that some of the the treats from the tea break were from Azerbaijan from the student network, wait no, the Azerbaijan student network as well as from our organizer, Vusala, who brought some back in her suitcase from Azerbaijan. So yes, so thank you for that. And that's part of the theme because we actually have a performance after these two lectures from an artist from Azerbaijan who will be performing something that's actually in the intangible heritage UNESCO list from Azerbaijan. So that's just a side note. So I would like to welcome our next speaker to the stage. Very excited that she was able to make it, Daisy Sutcliffe, who will be speaking about Jurassic Coast, which is a World Heritage Site in England. And she was recommended to us by Tim Badman, who was on our advisory board or one of our committees. And she, yeah, so she came highly recommended and she's doing really exciting work integrating arts within a World Heritage Site. So I think we're all very excited to hear what she has to say. So please welcome her to the stage. Thank you. So, hi, so no pressure then. Hi everybody, so I'm Daisy Sutcliffe. Currently studying for a PhD in geography following the last five years where I've been working on the Jurassic Coast World Heritage Site. First of all, as their arts coordinator I'm going on, oh, you want me to talk more into it? Can you hear me? It's more for the live stream then. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm not used to having microphones in my face. So yeah, I was working on the Jurassic Coast World Heritage Site for five years and that's what I'm going to talk about today. And I'm possibly gonna say some things that are a bit ignorant because I haven't done very much academic reading for a long time. My undergraduate was 20 years ago in social anthropology so I'm carrying on in the same vein but I have a lot of academic reading to catch up on. So I'm just gonna run through what we did on the Jurassic Coast. This is about how you actually do things, how you make things happen rather than the idea. I mean, it's obviously about the ideas behind them but when you come to do things in reality there's a lot of negotiating to be done as we've heard from many of our other speakers. And finally, I'd like to say thank you to Unibet Heritage for making it possible for me to be here and to all the other speakers who I've heard from who have been really, really inspiring. So, you still have a book that looks like this in your packs. This was the final report that we wrote at the end of the project. It's aimed at managers of naturally designated sites so the language might be a bit weird to you but bear with me on that. So, a little activity to start us off with. I want you to get into small groups and rank these items in order of value. Highest first, please. So one minute for that. Go. So can you see them? We've got art, nature, science, family, my dog and my old car. Okay, have we got another microphone that we can use? No, sorry, I didn't brief you about that. Yes, but it's in front of the speakers. Yes, we do. So I'm just gonna row around and ask you which ones you ranked highest and why. And we haven't got very long, so I won't stand out. Brilliant, brilliant. Okay, so, who shall I pick on first? Anybody? Rosanna! What did you get to? Nature, family, art, science, car, dog. Good question, didn't it? Nature's very important. Well, nature's, I just love to be in there. Family, because I probably have to say so, they'll kill me. Art, because I'm an artist. Science, because it's useful sometimes. In the castle, you can get there and the dogs will ask, because I've never been a dog owner. Thank you, that's as right as the answer's gonna be. Anybody else have anything different? Nature is sown. Thank you, anybody else, anything to say? Car was the bottom. Okay, any reason for that? They're a bad thing. Thank you. Okay, I'm gonna stop there. That's just a little exercise to get everybody thinking about value, which is what heritage is all about, I guess. I'll be back for the microphone. And also, we've been sitting and listening to things for a long time, so it's nice to do something a little bit more active. So, where is the Jurassic Coast? The official name for the Jurassic Coast is the Dorset and East Evan Coast World Heritage Site. And we gave it a shorter name. The Steven Spielberg film Jurassic Park came out while we were going through the designation process, and it seemed like a natural match to get a bit of extra publicity. So, that's where it is in England, if you saw the slide before. It's 95 miles long. It runs from the back of the cliffs to the low-mine watermark. And it excludes all the built-up areas that there are along the coast. There's about 150,000 people living in 10 communities along the coast. So, what's it all about? Jurassic Coast. Okay, we'll start with the Earth. The Earth is 4.6 billion years old, so we're told by the scientists. They are useful sometimes. Complex animals are involved about 600 million years ago. And the Jurassic Coast tells the story of about a third of the life on the Earth, so about 185 million years of the Earth's history, which puts me in my place regularly. How did it form and how did the story form? So, the rocks, it's all sedimentary rocks. They were laid down in a gently subsiding basin with the Triassic, the oldest rocks at the bottom, the Jurassic in the middle, and the lower cretaceous at the top. There was then a huge event in geological terms which tipped the west upwards and the east downwards and then the surface eroded. And you can see, we're beginning to see why it's a walk-through time. More cretaceous rocks settled on top of that, because this is an ongoing process, continuing and renewed erosion created the landscape that we have today. So, a walk from the west to the east is a walk-through of 185 million years of the Earth's history. And that's why it's a World Heritage Site. Rock fossils and landforms. So, when I came into my job, I was told in no uncertain terms that we were a natural World Heritage Site, and that was a very different thing to a cultural World Heritage Site. And that's been with me ever since I started that, and I still question whether that's a useful way of looking at heritage. No pun for conversations about that afterwards. So, the guiding principle from UNESCO is that UNESCO encourages World Heritage Sites to be managed through partnerships, believing that this helps them to become part of the fabric of the communities in which they're sighted. And the Jurassic Coast is managed by the Jurassic Coast Partnership, which is a non-constituted group of stakeholders who are responsible for writing, monitoring, and reviewing the management plan. The management plan is the contract that the government has with UNESCO for maintaining the site. Partnership involves people from various sectors, including tourism, science, education, transport, community representatives, and museums. There are about 35 people at most during great meetings, which is a lot of people to talk to and communicate with, listen to, more importantly. And the arts program came about because we wanted to enhance the work around engagement and understanding. So we widened the steering group to include people working in the arts, mainly strategically to start with, and now we occasionally have artists. I don't know whether you can see this, probably not the writing's tiny, but this is basically how it all came about. So the coast was designated in 2001 as a World Heritage Site. 2003, there was an interpretation plan written in partnership with the Natural History Museum in London, and that led to the development of the creative coast group because the arts was mentioned and that was the way of interpreting the site. So in 2006, some consultants were appointed who developed and published an arts strategy, and that was the same year that the London 2012 Olympics was announced. The arts strategy came first, I have to say, but it became obvious that there was an opportunity for funding a much larger scale arts program than was originally intended. So two different consultants were appointed to get the money in place from 2007 to 2008, working across all 10 communities with as many of the 150,000 people as they could to work out what we should be doing and get some money. And in 2008, I was appointed as the coordinator to deliver and develop the arts program. That finished in 2011, the Olympics were in 2012, so there was a bit of a gap, and we got some follow-on money to develop the strategic side of the work so that we embedded it more thoroughly in the practices of the local organizations. It was clear that there were lots of organizations on the Jurassic coast doing amazingly good work, so it wasn't necessary to add another organization to that, and what we wanted to do was to enable the organizations that were already there to engage with the World Heritage Site and use that to raise money. The key things that I learned while I was doing the project, which was a huge project, so most importantly is to be really clear about what you're doing and why you want to do it. They're all kind of obvious things and they apply to almost anything you do in life, but it's useful to go back to them every now and again. My second observation would be that I'd start really small, I'd develop the partnerships and the relationships that you need to develop the work before you start trying to develop the work, because if you don't, you'll have opposition and it becomes much more difficult to do. And you only want to do stuff that people want to be there, so yeah. The third thing is to communicate, which I probably found the hardest thing of all, when you're communicating with lots of different people from lots of backgrounds, you need to use lots of different languages, even within English, and you need to be able to communicate to people what they're going to get out of something, which isn't always easy and it's not always obvious what they're going to get out, especially when you're working with the arts, because you never quite know what they're going to be before they happen, so that was an ongoing process. The final thing that we learnt was that the arts do and can support management of a naturally designated site, and that was really important. So, we did 34 arts projects over five years. We're seen by more than 200,000 people, we had 5,000 participants and volunteers. As I said, I didn't organise the arts projects, I just tried to coordinate them and bring them together under one umbrella. As far as we know, we're the only natural world heritage site in the world that builds the arts sector into the management plan. There's lots of heritage organisations, mainly cultural heritage organisations, that work really effectively with artists, but there's not very many naturally designated organisations, and the language barrier is more difficult, I think, there. So, why did we do it? Artists Great, this is a quote that I got from Richard Crowe, who I was working with, who wrote a publication called Arts in the Protected Landscape for the Arts Council, and this I find really useful. So, Artists Great, both physical landmarks that help us identify where we are, and I think equally importantly, if not more importantly, emotional landmarks, stories, films, plays and songs that help us to define and explore our relationship with the landscape. Why Arts in the Jurassic Coast again? So, the Outstanding Universal Value, which is a UNESCO term of the site, which is the rocks, fossils and landforms, was an integral part of the areas culture before designation. Obviously, they'd been there for a lot longer than the designation had been, and it was important to acknowledge that. So, what we tried to do was to build on that heritage, exploring world heritage values, the Outstanding Universal Value of the site, and what that means to people. It provided opportunities for arts and creative thinking to be more widely integrated into the education, interpretation, conservation and awareness programmes within the management plan. I'll come back to that. Another quote that I liked from a lady called Shahneed, who I've done some work with, who says, because it was an Arts and Science programme, scientists may be able to explain how the brain works in terms of mapping the cortex or understanding synaptic connection making, or the function of neurotransmitters, but they find it hard to convey how experience feels the way it does to us as individuals. And I think that is where, for me, that's where the arts comes in. So, I'm going to do a short film just to show you one of the 34 projects. So, the technology's on my side. That should work. No sound. Anne, where are you? No sound. Sorry, people. What I can do is skip that and come back to it, actually, because I've got some other slides of some of the other projects. That was just the biggest one, and the one which we've got a nice film for. Try it again. OK. She did test it before we started, and it worked then. Yeah, that's right. Great. OK. So, the Duarte Coast Earth Festival is a one-year festival to coincide with the Olympics. The world's eyes for a couple of weeks, and perhaps broader, beyond Dorset as well as London. Many people are totally unaware that we have what is effectively our version of the Grand Canyon. It's on our doorstep, and it needs to be exposed to people. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to Etude. Etude is the Jurassic Coast Earth Festival's only international performance. As many of you will know, the Jurassic Coast trains a storing of 185 million years of the Earth's history. The Jurassic Coast Earth Festival is a lens that enables you to travel 180 million years into the Earth's history to understand about contemporary natural sciences. So, it's about understanding about climate change. It's about understanding about extinction. It's an understanding of the needs to conserve the natural environment. This way. I've not done anything like this before. You need. Yeah. Very enjoyable. So, lots and lots of different things, cultural, artistic and natural heritage, go to make up this enormous celebration along the Jurassic Coast. It's amazing. Why is it amazing? It's just how it works, everything that I ask. I ask to take their seats in the Marine Party of the 2012 Fossil Festival. The annual line-up is Fossil Festival that's been going on for some years as it evolved into something larger. Today's the big day. Today is the kick-off for the Jurassic Coast Earth Festival. There's events happening in Exmouth, there's events happening in Swanwich, Weymouth, Lowermouth, wherever. There is something happening as part of the Earth Festival brochure, which is absolutely fantastic. You're going to have this phrase about world heritage to make it a function in the life of the community. I think the Fossil Festival very much exemplifies that. It's a community event in line-rages. Although it gets people in from all over the country, it's something which is a positive thing for line-rages and it's happened because of the World Heritage Site. I've learnt that there were over a million dinosaurs around about three million years ago. I would like them to take away an interest in fossils and evolution and the natural sciences. I just want them to be inspired to want to know more about a whole range of things that the World Heritage Coast has to offer. Well, the benefit has been that we're part of a much bigger thing. It's just wonderful to be part of a team. It's amazing. It's just how it works, everything like that. The Plyosal Brings to the Earth Festival I think probably the real children's fascination in dinosaurs and all things Jurassic and engaged parents in those things through the children, really. Do you think it was scary in there? I think it was really exciting. I think that children, when you touch things and actually be involved with it, it makes it a lot more of an interesting experience. It was basically quite disgusting, really. Why? Well, because it ate quite a lot of things and you didn't really, you know, clean up. Shall we do that? Do you want to finish the bit you were doing first and then we'll flip it over and we'll be able to see the other side a bit better. I've been booked to come here to work on this Earth Festival project building these enormous local insects. Right, any little gaps you can see, see what there is little bit, just try and fill them in. Well, the Earth Festival, of course, is made up of lots and lots of different kinds of events. This would fit into the natural environment category. So this is a celebration of the natural environment local to West Bay and to Bidport and that includes the Jurassic Coast but also the wildlife and history as well. It's really nice having an event down at West Bay because you get all the local children as well as the people that are visiting and they're staying in the local campsites. We're camping in a fleet. And we come from... We haven't got any paint on holiday with us and we don't normally go at home. I hope we stay here all day. Would you like to come through now, please? And if only you see your boarding cards. Thank you and welcome to Jurassic Airlines. First of all we take you through normal procedures, such as check-in. We then take you through security with our 3D humility scanner. Again, with messages about the Jurassic Coast and the environment. As part of the Earth Festival on board is a fusion of many different disciplines in art, science, geology. It's multi-layered. The nature of the Jurassic Coast, which is all made up of layers. I learnt that the fuse came from the Cretaceous period. You've got to come and experience it yourself. I don't think because it's so unique I don't think there's anything out there to compare it with. The Jurassic Coast offers us a huge resource in terms of medicine. The idea was to find a collection of people first who would in some way manufacture but not necessarily literally artifacts that could be shipped across to another World Heritage site. 26 or 27, are you sure it's 27? When in Ceylon Sally's family I didn't actually know how the bones there were in the feet which was a little bit embarrassing. I had to count them up. We happened upon this musical box. We converted everybody's timelines into minutes which was the smallest time frame. And then we applied a logarithm of 53 and 26 and 27 added together to get all the numbers squashed down but still of relative value. And so we have kind of achieved what we really hoped to have actually without knowing that that's the form it would take. So we've got a kind of expressive form of all those timelines set against the geological timeline and it's hand operated. You've just got to go and talk about yourself for half an hour, how hard can it be? And she was right, you know, just talking to people about something you really enjoy, it wasn't very difficult. For us being part of the festival and this particular project, Rock Around the Coast it means it gives us a great opportunity to promote Portland. It's an island where obviously the urban areas are really close to the wildlife areas and close to the cliffs and those cliffs themselves have lots of history through quarrying or being part of defence establishments. So throughout the journey you're seeing history intertwined with wildlife and geology. How, like, the rocks were formed in the shape they are now. Really get close up and really get to understand the boundary between the upper Jurassic into the Cretaceous period. Everybody back! Everybody back up! Everybody back up! It's because we're myth and wind! It's universal matter. I thank the writers for that. The festival is about getting to people who wouldn't otherwise discover how interesting this all is. What's the lifetime value of a young person who discovers an ammonite? You know, if that relationship is nurtured through all their lives that's a great way for them to get involved in the sciences and not just the natural sciences but science more generally. So I get ready for you in the morning I brush his teeth and I polish his flippers. They told us all about evolution so it could change one of us into something like a rector or an amphibian. Maybe one day the human race might evolve into something much, much better. Okay, so that was the biggest project. And then we had a few other projects. I'll just run through those really quickly. So we had the next biggest project which was also produced for the 2012 Olympics was exploratory laboratory which was five artists in residence in five situations, non-gallery situations on the coast where they worked with a I guess a sort of natural history organization in most cases National Trust. I don't know how many of you will know the places in England National Trust. We had a country park and three others as well and they produced work that was then exhibited in non-gallery spaces along the coast and that's just an example of two of those. We had coastal voices which brought together about a thousand local people to sing songs about the Jurassic coast commissioned for composers to make new work and they were performed both along the Jurassic coast. We did the Weymouth opening ceremony for the Olympic Games and then went on to London and performed in the River of Music Festival and those pieces of music are there now so people can perform them too. At a slight tangent when I came into the post there were so many questions that needed to be answered and so many different agendas and different people wanting different things from the program but I got chatting to people at XD University in the geography department and we agreed that it would warrant a collaborative PhD studentship so we got funding for three PhDs starting in consecutive years in 2010. The first one was about Carnival, the second one was called Geobiographies of Stone and the third one is still ongoing dynamic practices and geographies of World Heritage. This was Universal Value which was one of the first projects that we did. It was one artist Charlie Morrissey who came down and did three different interventions along the Jurassic coast on the beaches and dance, he's a choreographer. This was a company called State of Emergency who were working with a choreographer called Gregory Makoma from South Africa who'd created a piece called the Skeleton Coast about the Skeleton Coast in Namibia and was really interested to transfer that piece to the Jurassic coast to think about skeletons of the past and skeletons of the present together. We had a photographer called Ben Osborne who was in residence with two of the local rural touring companies, Arts Reach and Villages in Action who created a slideshow of beautiful images and went around the Jurassic coast and then all over England and I think he's been into Europe as well to talk about the Jurassic coast and his experience. We also had a program called Bogst Under Door Beautiful which the idea was for us to work with planners and engineers to explore the role artists can take in developing the built environment so that it was in keeping with being the setting for a World Heritage Site and those are three projects that we did through that and there's a biennial festival in Dorset called Inside Out Dorset and we worked with them in 2010 so it was two years before the Olympics and we had a developer piece called The Rockcharma which was an artist who does live puppetry and then projects it and he projected it in this case onto the clips working with a Finnish accordion player called Kimopo Honon that was three nights running you had to walk a mile to get to this old quarry site in the dark and we walked back in a procession with Luntons which was really beautiful we did it every night with the moon out and really atmospheric so this has lost its formatting somewhat this is page 16 I think in your handouts and this was intended to people who want to work with the arts but don't know how and that was what I spent the first three years doing was negotiating the space in which artists could work productively with a team of people who aren't used to working with artists who are used to taking creative risks in that way and this is really intended for them but there are five ways that you can work with artists I think on heritage sites and that corrects me if you think I'm wrong so we can commission work which is where the site decides what it wants and commissions it you can program work so see somewhere else that you think resonates with the site and bring it to the site so there's a project happening anyway and they want to be associated with the site you can integrate it so you can build it into the planning and fundraising activities of the site or you can develop partnerships and my own feeling is that partnerships is by far the strongest way to develop work that ongoing relationships develop much richer work so the second part of my job the last two years was a project that we called creative coast 2012 which was about strategically embedding the arts into the work of the world heritage site had four areas of work first was events where we developed a creative coast forum which was expanding on the idea of the steering group and just bringing more voices to the table we held four events I'll come onto those in a moment arts project development which took up by far the most of my time because there were so many projects going on strategy so I was reviewing the art strategy and the management plan and I was looking at other management plans for other protected sites in the UK and advocacy we had a PR campaign and did workshops the most influential one I think was probably for UNESCO at their international meeting which was last year in Angkor Angkor Water I think I didn't go I was my manager that one so the creative coast forum we had four events the first one looked at the introduction to the idea of having a forum to develop and implement the creative coast project beyond 2012 so how are we going to carry on this work there's been all this money invested and how do we keep that going second one looked at festivals and tourism it's a huge tourism economy on the Jurassic coast and it would make a lot of sense for that to be better integrated with the cultural infrastructure so we had a session about that the third one was in partnership with XT University and looked at artists and scientists and how we can work together to improve management and the final one was for the future I just like this picture why I put this one on this was from the arts festivals and tourism when we asked people to draw the relationships that they had on the map and you can see that this is just a few people in a room and there are enormous amount of relationships that go backwards and forwards along the coast and this sort of web of how that works and who's got relationships with who and how those can bring about amazing projects so the last section of the presentation is about the arts and the new management plan so every five years World Heritage Sites have to write a new contract with UNESCO and it's a perfect for mine so the new one started next year so the consultation ran through the Creative Coast 2012 project and we were looking to identify key areas of work coming up for 2019 we got the steering group to acknowledge that some of these could benefit from an arts approach which was a bigger task than you might imagine and finally as I said the Creative Coast Forum brought together landowners, education workers, tourism workers and conservation partners with arts partners to identify what the areas of work might be and to develop plans for how they might go about delivering them I'm coming back to key observations and recommendations just as a reminder so clarity of purpose less can be more communicate, communicate, communicate and that we did establish that the arts can support the management of a naturally designated site so that's it for me on the presentation but I'd really love to have a conversation about some of that if anybody's got any questions I think we've got time, haven't we? Yeah, we're good. So we would like to ask the first question I think you might have to come a little bit closer let's see Oh, no, maybe here Hello, thank you for the presentation I'm interested in the integrative approach you were explaining these types of approaches of working with arts and probably you used now for the second part of the strategy the integrative approach so maybe you could explain a bit how you, yeah helped, how we did it that was really through the mainly through the creative course forum so through the partnerships that we developed over the previous three years and then extended partnerships so all the partner organisations had all their partner organisations and it was about being clear about what the aims of the management plan were so that people could understand what those aims were and respond to them with creative ideas and it's also about the people who manage the site understanding the arts process and how it raises questions that sometimes aren't answered and you never know, as I said earlier you just never know quite what's going to come out of an arts project and it, most of them work out fine but some of them don't and you have to allow for this risk taking culture which is, doesn't come naturally and I forgot to say but we were the Jurassic Coast partnerships hosted by the Dorset County Council so we work within a local authority environment which is not, they're not renowned for being great risk takers so developing that culture was a lot of what I did, I spent most of my time facilitating conversations between people who didn't really understand each other does that answer the question and then so that approach was about embedding it in the forward planning for all the organisations concerned so obviously everybody has a business plan for the next year and making sure that it gets written into those business plans and not sort of left by the wayside so it's sort of trying to bring it up on everybody's priorities on both sides of the discussion, does that answer yeah, okay another question oh right, it is very hard next question um, should I think Katerina no? is there any closing notes that you have no, I mean, okay good, thanks thanks for the presentation I was just wondering how you navigate the process of installing the works and how the land will be treated in that process I think that's where you really benefit from working in partnership because once you understand what each organisation's trying to achieve then that conversation naturally opens and you kind of for instance for the inside out performance in the quarry there are lots of rare bats that live in that quarry and we had to work with the bat conservation trust to make sure that what we were doing wasn't going to disturb the bats because they're an endangered species so it's drawing in the right partnerships for each project and making sure that the approach is always to tread lightly and to leave no trace basically which is quite difficult when you're bringing generators down a track and playing love music and projecting huge images onto clips it's about the partnerships echoing what Rosanna said it's all about the relationships yeah thanks for the information I have a question to Charlie Morrissey how important is he to promote such a site in a touristic way but also in a local way do you mean in terms of his professional profile yes exactly that was a really difficult conversation that we had to negotiate so many of the projects as you saw from the film were local projects with local artists but it was quite important also to get some better known artists involved and that was one of the things that the Jurassic Coast team were least comfortable with because they didn't feel rightly to curate an arts programme because clearly they really didn't know they didn't have the confidence to judge quality and I think for 2012 it was quite important to draw in some of the bigger names although Charlie was one of the first artists who we worked with so that wasn't really for 2012 it just kind of fell like that but I think a combination I think one of the things that you can do if you have a large scale programme like this is to bring in talent from outside as well as to give the talent that you have in your locality opportunities to learn and expand their practice as well so I think as long as it's on a kind of sharing basis and that they come in not preaching to everybody but kind of willing to work in partnership then it's really important one thing that I've forgotten to say which is might be important to people is about the budget so when I came into post there was a £500,000 budget for three years and what the other thing that we showed was that that budget was a good investment because we ended up spending drawing in about £5 million worth of funding for the arts into the area which was a huge amount of money for that it's a tiny rural communities area with two cities one at each end and those kinds of budgets don't normally come into that area so I mean partly because of the Olympics but also partly because the place was a World Heritage Site we managed to attract a lot more investment into the area which has I think benefitted everybody involved yeah maybe do you have any like for closing a favourite artwork or a story that you want to share in closing? God there's so many not really I mean I worked as well as my official role I worked voluntarily on a lot of the arts projects and I helped to paint the play I saw I helped to I was an air hostess on on board and I think for me getting actually physically involved with the pieces of art and developing creating them and having that personal relationship with the artists where they could see what I was doing and I could see what they were doing and how hard it all worked. I mean my God everybody put in so many hours of what they were being paid for if they were being paid at all and for me I suppose those are the take away memories of it we took the play I saw to Glastonbury last year so a lot of these artworks are going on to do other things and that yeah it's been really exciting being involved in a group of really amazing creative people and I think that's I mean it's a really general remark but that was that was really what excited me was working with the artists and working with the scientists and the scientists have so much knowledge in it you walk through another thing that really excited me was walking through landscapes with people who see them through different eyes so if you walk through a landscape with a geomorphologist and they've been trained to look at the London in such a different way you know they can go through the landslip over there 200 years ago and I can tell because of the vegetation and there was an ice flow over here and they're seeing the history of the earth in London that they're walking on and I found that endlessly fascinating just amazing to work with so many different people with so many different knowledges and skills yeah yeah I think that's I think my final closing remark is thanks for bearing with us in the heat roasting thank you very much Daisy that was amazing we'll have a 10 minute break and then we'll have our last lecture of the conference from Klaus Saber so yeah rehydrate and we'll see you back in 10 minutes thanks