 How Eve players pulled off the biggest portrayal in its history Bruce Delta sky club at SeaTac it partakes off with new addition of Microsoft devices Tech crunches 100 tickets to see south of market the musical The last of us an uncharted four director Bruce Strayley is leaving Naughty Dog. Oh Right before last of us, too. That's bad. That's juicy. Is that is that worth sticking in? No, it's juicy for me and Patrick. It's gaming juicy. Not general juicy. Yeah No, I love Love I love, you know, I haven't played uncharted for only played up to three. I love last of us but Truth be told a lot both those games are rely heavily on judicial movie tropes So it was it was great for a game But the gameplay overall while fun wasn't in exactly the most Innovative or unique, but it was definitely well put together and I have to say it's probably the best example of plot plot and dialogue writing in a video game, so there you have it folks I I Have nothing more to do to prepare for this show. Usually I'm doing things right up to the end, but That always feels good. Yeah, I love that. It's a rare occurrence. We've got a chat room full of awesome people We've got a great guest Got a great topic Got a fine co-host and then me So we're good Roger you just read things before you realize what you're reading that got you in trouble the other day Hey, you know what then I recall and they wrote it that way and that's very deceptive Look when Roger does that Tom, you can just publicly say it was a staffer and it's been dealt with I don't know that that hides anything His left hand has been reprimanded Yeah, that's and I could cause a whole other Trail of tears All right, well I say we just go for it you guys ready. Yeah, let's do it. Sure. Let's do it here we go The Daily Tech News show is brought to you by you. Yes, you it's global listener base Not outside organizations to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, September 13th 2017. I'm Tom Merritt joining me today Scott Johnson Of the frog pants studios. How are you sir? Good? It's Wednesday. It's when I come on. I love this day It's great. I fueled up with a horrible hamburger and I hope that it will do what it needs to do to make this a Show to remember. It's a horrible hamburger. I hope it does what it shouldn't do which is stay inside you Hopefully let's all Also joining us today, we're very excited at Bob Schultz. He's a lead interconnection engineer in the power industry You may recall hearing his email on a previous show and we have somehow cajoled him To come on to the podcast and chat with us today. We're very pleased that you're willing to do this Bob Of course Tom. Thank you very much. I also had an awful hamburger But I don't know if I could roll with such a beautiful intro that Scott just did there But yeah, thanks for having me. Well, if I'm the only one left here You know the dietary cause of it by the end of this show, but I think everything's gonna be all right Let's start with a few tech things you should know Facebook established some rules prohibiting monetization of certain kinds of branded content instant articles and video Among the prohibited types are misappropriation of children's characters So like making you know parody things that are kind of dirty but have kids characters and can monetize those you can put I'm on Facebook can monetize them violent content content focused on nudity or sex They're going after porn there depictions of illegal activity like drug-taking excessive use of inappropriate language so a lot of cursing and depictions of death or incendiary social issues even if part of the news or awareness campaign I don't think they mean like if you have a drama and you show grandpa passing away quietly on a hospital bed They're talking about beheadings and horrible things like that But they're saying hey, even if it's part of a public service campaign, we're not gonna let you monetize it Facebook is also joining the trustworthy accountability group. That is the most trustworthy sounding name of any group. I've ever heard It's a company that that helps fight fraud They're also seeking accreditation from the media ratings council to obtain third-party verification of ad reporting So three different things going on here Scott that Facebook's doing but the most interesting to me is this crackdown on Monetization which is immediately gonna have a lot of people asking like wait. Where is the line on this? You know, that's my very first thought was this is very difficult to define that at least historically when you start getting into this stuff I don't like the term slippery slope or fine line, but that's kind of what we're walking here So when they say violent depictions To promote news content. What does that actually mean? Let's say there's some some sort of attack And then I guess you need a way to universally define what is or isn't too much in what they show Let's say it's a bomb in a crowd does a news affiliate like the New York Times or somebody who's putting paid promotional content on Facebook. Can they show that and Because it's news current events and or important by someone's definition But by somebody else's definition, it's horrible awful and should not be seen by anybody who's under the age of 18 Like it starts to get really complicated and you don't want to litigate every single case Well, and this is this is Facebook's rules, right? You don't have to put your video on Facebook And you certainly don't have to monetize it if you don't want to so so Facebook I don't think is thinking they'll they'll have too many litigious people, but There's always somebody that the tragedy in conflict one though is the one that caught my eye, too So it says content that focuses on real-world tragedies including but not limited to depictions of death casualties physical injuries Even if the intention is to promote awareness or education. They're saying look you can show People being swept away in a storm to promote awareness, but we're not gonna let you put money on that and keep in mind It's kind of hard in your head to do this, but keep in mind. They're not saying you can't show the stuff on Facebook They're saying we're not gonna let you put ads on it. Some of that has a lot to do with Disincentivizing people from putting prurient content on Facebook because they're not gonna make money off of it But some of it has to do with the idea that the advertisers don't want their messages Attached to disturbing images. Yeah, this feels like it's Part of the push that you saw recently and still happening over it over at YouTube and a lot of the pushback from advertisers Especially when they're talking about now gamer streamers and people are doing and saying things that Coke may not want to be associated with up till now. It's sort of just been a thing you ran But now that you know, they've gotten to the size where you can't disassociate them So I totally get why they're doing it and pardon me really likes this. I just know it can get real slippery it's also probably just part of one phase of Not content control, but they're they're They're willingness at two billion users to figure out a way to try to curtail some of their Ultimate responsibility as the corporation smart choices for their users not censoring people not doing things that are illegal and Encouraging free speech but not for money like it's a big complicated thing. I don't envy them for any of this But I actually also think it's probably it was all it was all coming at some point This may as well be the tip of that spear. Yeah, and and this is honestly just complying with community standards Publishers must comply with existing policies on community standards So I don't know that it's gonna end up being the hell portal Just a rubber young as has warned about regarding the fake news thing It's it's probably gonna be less controversial than that, but it is interesting Yeah, I mean Bob is a good as a consumer of the Internet. Do these sorts of rules Impact you or is it like it's about ads anyway. I don't care. No, I was just gonna say it's about ads So I don't care as long as they're still letting people just post. I mean, it's the words out of my mouth basically If they're not blocking the content directly and they're still opening it up so people can post it if they want I mean that seems like a fair standard there Yeah, I I'm gonna have to guess give up my Sesame Street fanfiction and not ask for advertising money anymore So don't look for that anymore. Everybody. Just keep it clean from now on Scott. Come on. Well, there's an idea Hey, a US federal appeals court denied uber's request to move its court case with Waymo to private arbitration Waymo accuses former employee Anthony Leventowski of taking confidential documents to uber Leventowski had an arbitration clause in his contract with Waymo's predecessor division of google The court also ruled that uber must produce a due diligence report prepared before it acquired auto That's otto Leventowski's autonomous truck company that he was working on So a couple of setbacks for uber in this case It was a little silly for them to say hey Leventowski's contract requires arbitration because all the federal appeals court said was yeah, except that's over Problems with his contract his employment contract. That's not what's being litigated here. Leventowski is not on trial This is about whether uber got a hold of confidential information So this contract doesn't apply to this case and I think that that's fairly clear The other one is more interesting uber's been trying to keep this due diligence report secret because they say It reveals a lot of trade secrets about how how they vet Possible acquisitions that they don't want to go into the court record Google's been saying or Waymo's been saying We think this will show what they knew and when they knew it Well, all I know is when you say the words uber and uh setback I don't necessarily blink my eyes too much I sort of expect that there might be it's become a regular thing. Hasn't I yeah, and it's unfor I don't want a Dog pile on them. They have stuff going on left and right, but court court stuff is is both complicated and sometimes expected Like I wouldn't take this as like oh another nail in uber's coffin or anything by that stretch No, no, but uh, it's they probably could catch a break at some point Microsoft continues to make changes in the windows 10 fall creators update or if you're in the uk The windows 10 ultim creators update coming october 17th Previously apps could get access to things like camera microphone calendar and contacts by default I mean they had to require they were required to notify you when they installed like hey We're getting access to your camera But then you'd have to go into the settings and change it if you didn't want them to have access Now third-party apps will be required to get explicit permission For access to all of these kinds of sensitive functions at the install time and windows 10 enterprise users are getting a new setting That limits diagnostic data collection to just the essential things they need uh to keep windows 10 enterprise running well, so I Scott I mean I think this is a good change. I wish they had had it before It was a little bit of a pain if you didn't want something having access to your contacts to have to go after the fact and do it Now it works more like apps do on mobile. Yeah apps on mobile are kind of led the way in this Um, I think naturally because on mobile It makes a lot more sense about when you're asked to give certain access at the times you're asked for it On any of those platforms. It's nice to see windows doing that I'd also kind of forgotten that windows will sometimes give you an update in the middle of the day that Doesn't warn you before it installs and that happened yesterday to kind of it in in opportune time So I I keep hoping it may be against hope that at some point I'll have more control over when those things get pushed through Um, it restarted right in the middle of a project and I you should have a setting that makes it tell you Well, I thought I did. Yeah, I know Now I gotta go find it set it again. Yeah, yeah It's that kind of stuff. So it's a little bit annoying, but These are all good moves. I'm actually excited about this fall update Using my windows computer more and more for a lot of stuff And so yeah, I mean as long as they keep moving in that direction and giving us more control over what we do In a way that makes sense and is not a pain in the butt to to ret con or go find or figure out All the better for us as windows fans Does this sort of thing affect you bob as a as a pc user? Not a ton truthfully. I mean, I've got windows 10 on my laptop here at home and Probably goes against what we'll talk about a little bit later, but we actually have windows 7 at work So the majority of the time on I'm on windows 7. So I don't even see stuff like this too often I'm glad you brought that up. I was actually going to throw out the question at some point What you guys were on so we'll talk about it more later But I have a stereotype that it's all windows xp still in these kinds of Places and obviously that's it's misguided stereotype. So we'll make sure to come back to that circle back to it Not that misguided scout, but yeah, we can talk more later Zoe brings bacon in the chat room has certified that my attempt at an english accent was nowhere near as bad as dick van dyke's accent Oh, yeah, no, I agree. Also. You had me it. They brought bacon Calla burger speaking of bacon They're not making the bacon anyway plans to introduce a robot to prepare sandwiches in 50 of its locations worldwide I think this is super exciting They're going to start in pasadena, california and they did this last march the robot So that's where they started the robots or the robot from miso robotics called a flippy All right, flippy is a rolling cart with one arm So try to imagine this as i'm describing it's also a bit of a photo roger's got up for those watching video It uses machine learning to train itself to get better at selecting and flipping meat patties Sensors determine whether meat is properly cooked a human is required to add cheese and remove the patties and assemble the finished sandwich Momentum machines says it is working on a robot. They can accomplish these additional steps as well I What's next michael keaton robot shows up and Takes credit for it all and starts his own company calls himself a founder Who knows the robots are taking over our food preparation now a little behind the scenes work here This story first came out in march when they introduced flippy at the pasadena store and tech crunch and a bunch of other people covered it It showed up in our reddit yesterday Because a bunch of other outlets including like cbs in miami started covering it I find no new information between the march and the september versions of this story flippy has been in pasadena since march I don't see any indication of other restaurants getting it yet So when you're submitting things in the reddit keep an eye out for that sort of thing because The the link they used in the reddit was not to the tech crunch article And I had to go dig in to find a more reliable and known source for it But the fact that it is getting picked up by a bunch of news outlets makes me think that they sent out a press release again And it is interesting because of the fact that that momentum machines robot out there Even if they're drumming up pr for this and it's a little bit of a stunt Because all it can do is turn the burger over and and it can select one out of a stack I mean it does show that there's a little bit of a war on to be the robot that can start replacing these mechanical systems I have also long held that one of the biggest and i'm no expert and I don't work in the food and services industry so take this with with other size of grain of salt you want to take it but It there is a big difference between one location of a taco bell or any other restaurant Just use them as an example and another location their taco looks different feels different It has more meat. Other one has less more cheese whatever consistency, especially in a franchise environment Difficult it's hard to get locations Especially privately owned and run to have this same exact standards across the board Smaller organizations like you know in and out they can kind of pull it off because they're small and they're family controlled and all of that But the bigger you get the harder it harder it is and the more standardized it gets sometimes the worse the food gets So I won't use names. I think this is great I want to see this technology go further and do more than just flip I want to see them adding condiments and custom orders and doing it quickly and efficiently and Creating the standards. So when I go to one in a location in st. George I can expect the same experience with the food as I can appear in solid city. So I for one I'm all for this Cali burgers actually kind of an in and out like store. They're considered an in and out competitor So it's funny that you bring up the standardization of in and out They have a simple menu and it's you know standardized size of burgers and all of that I I mean I my problem with franchises has never been that they vary too much. So I'm not sure this is my main concern I'm curious about you bob Yeah, I didn't even think about the standardization part of it I I don't really have that seem to have that problem now I think I might look more now that scott's got it a seed planted in my head. I guess but uh Darn you scott, but I was kind of on the fence like do we really did a robot that it's simply flipping a burger but at the same time they make some cases at the end where Cuts and greases and uh grease fires or burns or are Concerned so if it's something we can move to a robot and not worry about it Lastly, then I wonder how often do you have to clean it? It's got all these optical sensors on it and you're above of you know Spattering grease thing like is it going to be more trouble than it's worth? So I'm on the fence. I don't really know yet I should probably come clean on this a little bit My problem is with how inconsistent taco bells are if that's really my only problem You just hate taco bell I Honesure then because I've gone to a lot of taco bells in my life And I have not noticed a great degree of variance between well I I used I use the st. George example if anyone's driving through there to go to vegas or something You stop at that one and you will never have better taco bell the portions are better the freshness is better They're hot. It's it feels like they didn't put them under a lamp. It's amazing So when you've had that experience and then you go to one where it's just like a little strip of you know What might be meat with a little lettuce on the side the things torn and kind of soaked on the ends You realize oh This could be better or it could be more consistent. So I've probably I've probably biased a bunch of uh Thoughts on now. I want to go to the st. George one. You you've you haven't biased me against others You just made me really want to visit that one. It's really good. I don't know what they're doing down there But it's a great stop between there and vegas if you need to get something on the go. Yeah Uh, finally apple raised the price of its 256 gigabyte and 512 gigabyte versions of the ipad pro both sizes 10.5 inch and 12.9 inch They're all 50 dollars more than they were yesterday or the day before Uh, the 64 gigabyte ipad pros are the same price. They did not raise those 9 to 5 max says that industry sources tell it a shortage of high capacity flash chips Is driving up the prices and that's likely behind the increase And version 12.7 of apple iTunes for windows and mac os is out and it removes the ios app store from the desktop That will reduce some bloat, but it also means you have to manage your ios devices directly It adds the ability to sync with devices running ios 11 and social music sharing for apple music Along with a few other things in there as well. Does that bother you at all? I I can't remember the last time I actually used iTunes to manage my Apple ios devices anyway. It's been a long long time for me and I'm actually Excited about this. Some people are worried about it. I'm not sure where they are I quit doing this a long time ago as soon as they started offering wi-fi sync I jumped to that quit using cables and then the minute I realized oh, wait a minute I can just do all this on my phone We've come a long way baby kind of moment and I quit using the desktop to do any synchronization there So to me this is going to have no impact in fact a positive impact because when I plug it in sometimes to charge it or something I no longer have to have my mat go Oh, let's back everything up and get all the apps in order and install some things You didn't know you had in the cloud and stuff. It doesn't it's not going to do that anymore and I'm That may make me more likely to to plug it in there and not worry about it like I used to so For me, that's 100 fine on the ipad price drop thing real quick A little personal experience with this. We had to get another ipad pro in the house. My daughter's taking a digital painting course and Interesting side note the curriculum recommends ipad pros and pencils as the for the curriculum They don't require they like it. If that's what you're doing So we worked out a deal where I'd sell my two-year-old model to my daughter and the pencil and I would get a new one with a new pencil And pay the difference and all that and we did that just last week. So I I barely missed the $50 price and I realized just 50 bucks I know it's not going to kill anybody to have to pay it, but I feel like I got a deal somehow Even though you skate it in you skate it ahead of the price price increase Uh, by the way beat master points out that removing the app store on itunes Could prevent users from reinstalling remotely wiped apps because you wouldn't be backing up those apps locally anymore I'm not saying that apple will do that But that's a good point if apple were to go in and take an app off of your device, which is rare Uh, I I I don't know that they've done it Recently I think I could think of one instance where they did Um, or was that android? I'm actually now my memory is a little hazy on that, but it could be done Uh And and you wouldn't have a way around that generally the only times it's ever done is because of a security issue So you probably wouldn't want to have that app, but yeah, they're gonna be some outliers, too They're going to be somebody who's like I I organize every app in itunes now I can't and they're going to be really frustrated, but I think this is the natural be master says he had it happen twice to him. So that's interesting I don't know what more about that Hey folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines at daily tech headlines.com It's also on the amazon echo as a flash briefing and in the anchor app at anchor dot fm So that means a play that and then we talked bob Bob We we brought you here to talk about the power grid because we had the story last week about the infiltration And and the discovery of the infiltration and the expulsion of the attackers which led a lot of people as all sort of these these These sort of security stories do to say like well, why didn't they stop them? And this was mostly a good security story Which was even though there was an infiltration it was discovered and a reaction was happening But you wrote us a really good email that we read about what has been done It's not like the industry has just been sitting around twiddling its thumbs So help us understand a little bit. What what has been done in the past to prepare for attacks on the power grid Yeah, sure. Well, thanks for having me on again, and I'll try to go through some general public stuff in a sense But I sent you some links before you can look at too and I know you posted in the show notes But so some of the things that they've done in the past and again my background is a design engineer so I talked more from like the design basis of substations and Distribution lines and transmission lines. There's a whole another side of the house when it comes to the operators Which I think is what you saw on that security of hack or attack where the operators themselves have their own means of procedures to when they see something like this get flagged or The skater systems actually see an attack happening. They go through and they have procedures to mitigate things like that So from an engineering standpoint Some of the things we do is we have different relays relays are the brains behind the breakers at a substation So you don't have just one manufacturer. You have two different manufacturers So if there is an attack or a flaw, there's a backup system already physically in place wired in Programmed and things of that nature We also have Contingencies n-1 and n-1-1 where you say one transformer fails or one transmission line fails What happens to the power grid and we have computer models that actually state Watch out over here. This is going to be overloaded or that transformer is going to get overloaded And we go through and we then put in a new substation or different ways to mitigate things of that nature So we have departments that are always constantly modeling different scenarios which help out with things like that And then just from a physical standpoint, uh, the major substations They have pan tilt zoom cameras ir cameras a bunch of different things from that procedures that um Help with those operators if they do see something happening And a lot of these are now bulletproof Thanks to that medcaf incident that happened back in 2013, right? And and I think that's an example of what you're talking about In that case several people with guns shot at relays to take them out And while pg&e struggled to keep the power going they did keep the power going, right? Yeah, exactly. So it's actually the transformer. So these are the big refill transformer. No problem, but um It was almost smart. So that's why like people were thinking it wasn't inside job to really know what fiber optic cables to go into the manhole and cut and then uh, where to sit and with their sniper rifles where to aim and They they took out those transformers and transformers they have oil inside them to help keep them cool And they slowly leaked out overheated and started tripping offline so there wasn't even a catastrophic failure of the set of transformers and because of those computer models and such The power got rerouted to silicon valley just through different power lines But if we didn't have those models in place we wouldn't have theoretically seen the and and uh Beefed up those other power lines and then they would have gone down too And then it could have a cascading effect, which would be really bad So in the case of the medcaf incident, they still don't know or if they do know they're not telling us, uh, who Who perpetrated that attack? But it it felt like someone penetration testing right trying to figure out what the vulnerabilities were if this sort of thing would work There was also the the attack that we talked about the cyber attack where they definitely were taking screenshots And seemed like they were gathering intelligence about an attack So although I you know, I want to steer people away from the idea of like Oh, these these people were did this and and nothing was being done I think you've you've shown like no there were a lot of Things in place to mitigate against these and they worked What else is being done because if those guys are gathering intelligence you need to up You need to continue to up the game to to fight off whatever they're planning Yeah, so for those physical standpoints you touched on a little bit already There's uh ballistic walls that we started to install around transformers um, even the fences we have like a tighter mesh of a Uh chain link fence that you can't actually like stick your feet in to climb up it Those are like little things kind of but you know, there are people I think and okay What can we do to stop somebody from getting in there? Another big thing recently is a two factor authentication So we had RFID cards to get into the substation gates and control houses But often now we need pin numbers too. So just because you got somebody's card doesn't mean you can still get in there So physical two factor authentication right at a substation fence that that fence also will put in a A much stronger robust steel gate that can actually stop a car from driving through it Things of that nature from a physical standpoint And then you got your cyber perspective too that You can it's almost like you can you can never say that when something is 100 proven reliable So it's like I said before about the diversification of the relays Um, there's the I triple or the IEC 61 a 50 standard, which actually jumps over to a different IEC standard when it comes to the security aspect of it But as they're building these things they're thinking of how can we go and make this as robust as possible through Maybe vpns or read only data. So yeah, okay, great. You can see how much power is flowing through the line but you can't actually do anything with it even if you did get in so There's a lot of stuff going on with that and I I don't even want to claim to be an expert deep down into the weeds of cyber security for it But I do know that there's things coming in like that Another thing is ballistic pushings. I just saw the picture there from roger and not even putting the walls up but actually Beefing up the more the porcelain components that would actually be impacted by a gun You beef all that up and get a little bit of a stronger substation So I got I got a question that's related to The security of things but as affected by say natural disasters We're still talking about a lot of people in florida. Maybe even some still in texas who are without power Yeah, those two hurricanes And uh, in the case of florida was massive power outage millions of people were were out some are getting it back already Um, but I wonder when when you have a natural disaster, which you know There's I know there's a lot of preparation and protection for that in its own right Does that open things up to more of a risk for you guys? You have to account for that from a security standpoint if a hurricane comes through town wipes out all the natural foliage or whatever changes the Changes the game for you and then are you are you left with a harder? Prospect of security until you get things kind of cleaned up and on again Not really that I can think of a lot of that stuff truthfully is the distribution lines that run down the street and Yeah, that feeds a couple of houses and stuff But really it's the major substation itself that you're worried about And that's where I was talking about the fences and the gates and the uh two-factor authentication There's uh tree trimming. That's another vegetation management by NERC standards that require trees to be cut down from the Major transmission lines We don't have anything even remotely close to a substation so that it would fall in there Now there is still that flying debris and things of that nature So that's going to potentially damage things in the substation But I can't off the top of my head think of anything from a security standpoint Regarding things like that because if you're in that scenario things are just either they're de-energized or A fault happened where the equipment has failed so catastrophically that Nobody in their mind would be near it because they'd probably die Yeah, it's it's it's a self self-security in that sense, I suppose So I think the question a lot of people have and I see this come in is Why why do you have anything connected to the internet anyway? You know the sure way to keep people from the internet from breaking into your stuff is not to be on the internet So so why is there a pathway in? Well, I mean the electric grid started back when 1920s or so and agro falls and things like that and none of it was online so Nowadays, I mean, there's just so much more of the grid. Um, it's physically everywhere There's load everywhere. There's distributed generation everywhere And you can't have control centers at every single town that are man 24 7 So they have these massive major control centers that are locked down by those NERC standards and such And you need to still be able to control those devices now I will say that some of those devices you can maybe trip or open or close them But for the most part a lot of what I'm seeing is just data gathering Which brings it back to the control center or the engineers like myself to help Pinpoint where the problem is and that can actually get people online faster So now you know that oh, it's only this one section of the line that's down Let's go and restore the rest of it and get those people back online There's also I wanted to bring up an example actually out in california sd Eng sandio gas and electric sdg any They have a micro grid out at um or rico springs. I hope i'm pronouncing that correct And and they actually took it offline the the major transmission lines coming into it But you need that automation scheme for those smart devices to be able to see oh, I lost my main source of power Let me quickly switch over Grab those batteries kick them online turn up my spinning generators and keep this local micro grid online And unless you have just an individual control center at every single little place To have eyes and ears that are physically doing that you need intelligent devices to actually Gather the data and make decisions to actually keep the uh grid more robust so Yeah, maybe it's a double-edged sword like anything, but that's kind of the um I think the the uh the positive thing for Not putting it on the public internet, but making things more smart and communicating with each other Now when you say it's not on the public internet the the cyber attackers are getting in from the public internet So what's that pathway? How are they getting from the public internet and jumping into this network? Very often there's like vpns. So they're probably hacking through vpns or something So they can see the skaters screens. Um, I haven't seen anything Nor can I think of anything in our own company where the actual relays themselves at a transmission system are on the public internet They might go back to our skater system through different Secure means, but they're not just going through the same pathways that you and I do So I think there's things like that that you won't be able I don't want to say never but For the most part you wouldn't see somebody coming in from a laptop on google for instance going into Deep into the heart of a skater system and being able to open and close breakers But you never know if there's one person through social engineering gets a password Logs in through the vpn etc etc. Um, there's things like that to worry about too Well bob, I really really appreciate you being willing to be on your first podcast ever And explain all this to us. I know there's way more to understand About this out there, but I think this this helps quite a bit So so thank you and I encourage folks to go check out the links that he was referencing that we'll have in the show notes at daily tech news show dot com And thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit You could submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit dot com and in our facebook group facebook dot com slash groups Slash daily tech news show a couple emails before we get out of here. Uh, robert venkalker of venkalker farms writes I know for me My iphone is by far the most used device. I own way more than my macbook or my 4k tv I make more than an hour of phone calls and facetimes and send hundreds of text and emails every day I use it daily as gps. I take 10 to 100s of pictures a day And then there's gaming and photo editing and so many other apps I use it for two years then hand it down to my kids. It's kind of like you scott So robert says assume all the value is used up in two years, which it's not It still has a third to half of its value if you trade it in Take that $1100 for the 256 gigabyte iphone 10 divide it by 730 days And you get a daily cost of $1.50 to me. That's an absolute no-brainer Some people spend six dollars daily on a cup of water with bean flavor or a bottle of sugar water for two dollars Value seems obvious compared to this So I actually still think the iphone 10 is too expensive myself, but robert makes a very compelling case here I I agree and usually when you break stuff down by daily use considering it's the thing you use every day It's not like a boat where you might get it out three times a summer or something So so being able to quantify it is as good. He makes a really compelling case He's really throwing shade on the coffee business I make my own coffee robert, okay Yeah Vancouver farms sell beans by the bean flavored water is not what they're going to want you to call that But but he makes a really good point. Um, I mean I've bounced back and forth I found out I figured out after our show tms today that you were on this morning Why my real holdout for this one is and it's not I think i'm going to go with the eight but part of my reason is because I can get the eight sooner Yeah, so That's my biggest bummer with this whole thing is that everybody's waiting till november for it I don't know if I want to do that. That's that's dumb and I know it as I say it Yeah, but that's a big part of it else wise I think he makes a great point and it's a powerful computer in your pocket that does amazing things Just like the most expensive android phones are powerful handheld computers We are in the future And yet we're going to get nitpicky because it's small It seems like that's too much for something that's small despite the fact that a couple years ago You would have bought a notebook with half the power of this particular device and functionality for 12 to 1300 So we just have this weird bias towards how small it is apps are small. They shouldn't be expensive It's it's kind of a weird human thing we have about the size and Who knows? I don't know maybe bio cal points out Uh, you could go for a different phone with similar functions for 50 cents a day Yeah, Bob sounds like you agree. Yeah, I love this uh argument I think I'm gonna try to use it on my wife, but I can hear her eyes rolling into the back of her head right now So, yes report back. Let us know how successful it is Uh, finally martin wrote in and said hey tom with all of the stories of cell phone companies being socially engineered to activate new SIM cards and people losing their two-factor security I wanted to share what I was doing and see if shannon could validate my logic Well, I actually emailed darin about it, but darin could validate your logic Uh, he says for those accounts that only allow sms as the second factor I've been using google voice without having my text forwarded to my regular phone Meaning the only way to see them is either to have physical access to my phone Or to log into my google account that has its open time-based two-factor authentication As far as I know, there's no way to lose control of your google voice number Uh, and so I asked darin kitchen over at hack five about this and he said I also use google voice as my two-factor Authentication sms provider in the event that the service isn't compatible with otp Which is that time-based authentication he's talking about think of google authenticator or othee Darin says the benefit as martin describes is that accessing these text messages requires physical access to the phone Or access to the google account, which is also protected with two-factor authentication In this case the attack services is limited as one There's no sim card associated with the number to spoof and two the sms is delivered by ip Not for instance gsm or ss7, so there's no opportunity to intercept the rf communications It's an imperfect solution However as all of the keys to your kingdom are tied to your google voice account and therefore your google account If you're like me and the fur and you use gmail as your primary email Anyone with access to that account could not only view your text messages, but intercept account recovery emails as well So darin says yes, you are you are good if you're two-factor authenticating And and protecting your google account But keep in mind that you're only as secure as your google account and you're essentially turning it into one-factor authentication In that respect, but yeah, the only other vulnerability I could think about here was if you have your google voice number associated to a project fi sim card Then you might need to be careful about how that how google is able to reassign that sim card Which I don't think is as vulnerable to social engineering as the other major telcos, but And the great thing about this conversation in general is let's just use this as another reminder to everybody if you can Activate two-factor authentication on whatever services you're using in fact all the services you use do so It is better than not having it. Oh my gosh. Yes Yeah Quick reminder that the sam harris episode if you're if you're he's got millions of people listen to his podcast So I know a bunch of you know about sam harris. He is on after on that's a podcast that I do with author rob read It's out as of yesterday at after dash on dot com robin sam discuss terrorism and how sam's unique life experiences Shape his world view on it And a lot of the people who are fans of him said that this is one of the few places where they've heard him talk about His life in this depth or at least all at once So if you're you're into knowing about technologies effects on terrorism or if you're interested at sam harris himself Uh, go check it out after dash on dot com Thank you, bob schultz for joining us. This was great. Yeah, thanks for having me guys. This was fun So I appreciate uh the invite. I know you don't have like a a bunch of stuff to plug like the rest of us here But hopefully, uh, you know if people have questions by email they send them into us And either we'll forward them along or or maybe we'll have you back one of these days to to Further extrapolate on this. Oh, sure. I'm always lurking on the uh subreddit too So I can uh pop in there and talk to people too. So thank you. That's a great idea Yeah, you could just post post some stories in there and say hey bob and take a look at this for me That'd be great. Uh, scott johnson. What do you got going on my new bean flavored water company launches next week? Um, you're all invited big rubbing cutting ceremony plan and all that so that'll be fun Also, I do a lot of podcast artwork and other cool stuff streams If you want to go find out about all of that go to frogpants.com and follow me on twitter at scott johnson Now thanks to everybody who gives a little value back to this show for the value They get from the show at patreon.com slash dts and by paypal We love all our paypal Donators who kind of give us our capital expenditures budget If we get to our next patreon milestone, which we're very close to We're going to bring sarah lane on the show now. Why is that a good idea? It's a good idea because I love daily tech news I've become wildly jealous of your ability to do daily tech news and you know keep the lights on And I want to be part of it selfishly and i'm going to insert myself into the show any way possible With the help of the community, of course, where did you come from sarah? You're not even here Are you a voice in my head? It's possible tom, but a smart one who loves tech So if you'd like sarah lane on the show, if you'd like a monthly round table If you'd like some dts labs experiments to start happening And you haven't yet increased your pledge or even started backing us at all head to patreon.com slash dts Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern 20 30 utc at alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv And our website is daily tech news show dot com back tomorrow with justin robert young We're going to talk a little more about equal facts and how to protect yourself. See you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com I hope you have enjoyed this program. It's possible tom, but a smart one who loves tech Ah, that was a great that was great bob If you had not said you'd never done this before I would not have known Oh, thank you. Maybe it helps alleviate some of my nervousness, I guess, but Yeah, it seemed like it went fine on my side. So I'm glad you guys liked it No, it was it was really really good. I people in the chat room were saying they really enjoyed the conversation as well It's the one thing I didn't think of I don't have the chat room up. So I wasn't watching I don't know what they said, but well, you know second time through you can you can add the complexity You can up the difficulty level but try to keep a track of chat Yeah, I struggle enough just to flip back and forth through the story. So never mind a third thing Well, hey, uh, if you need to go, of course, uh, you go whenever you need to we're going to stick around on the stream for a few More minutes while while we publish and choose the title All right, I'll listen in. I always try to listen in on this. Anyway, it's kind of fun to watch you guys do it So, all right. Yeah, thank you though. Yeah, you bet Um titles, let's see what we got burger bots burgers Where's the bots scott eats way too much taco bell I padding the price Watts what watts watts up with power grid security bean flavored water Um, you know, you shouldn't joke about it because I made a reference to that and I'm going to get you second Uh, the right to free speciousness flipping robots transformer battles Isn't that a michael bay production? Uh, hello show bots scott had a horrible hamburger. Oh, I get transformer battles is really good because it does play on michael bay, but I was I was like what michael bay, but we're talking about Transformers more than meets the eye as more than meets the ai more than meets the eye So current like oh eye is in current. Nice I like that one, but I'm I'm biased All right that one that one got voted up I like what's up with power What's up what's up with power grid security? That's pretty good. Um, check the date extreme makeover itunes edition My iphone is cheaper than your coffee per day I was telling tom this yesterday for the price of a cup of coffee You can give lifesaving medicines Nutritious if somewhat colorless meals for the price of an iphone 10 divided over two years You can give nutritious meals to these children I'm gonna have to have pictures of flies on people's faces and stuff So sad You're all the family struthers Hers is save the children network Yep, they built a spaceship apparently What? No in south park they built a ship. Oh Absolutely power backs up absolutely I see you're trying to flip a burger can I help with that? Honestly, it's still a restaurant. It's still a fast food burger. I don't care what you do with it Robot over some man man robot. It's a fast What was funny about scott? You went a totally different direction because I was prepared to go with the like these things are so uniform You can put a robot in you wouldn't even know and you went like they're so not uniform The taco bells are all different. You blew my mind with that like I don't know why mcdonald's is different But donald's is uniform like everything Yeah, it's because you buy all the stuff from them But you know if you're crazy and that's how they control that that's the way they've controlled it I'm saying you could have like a really great little Smaller regional taco place for example that is automated like this and maintain those standards across them because it's Robotically prepared all you have to do quality food in the first place But really isn't that what you know people want to step away from they want artisan small batch crafted whatever That's what they think they want What they want is something that tastes good scott knows what people want Why are you going to taco bell? Listen, I like taco bell, but even I understand what I'm getting when I get taco bell Yeah, go to st Go to the st. George one if you guys are over there you gotta find we'll do we'll do a dts on the road Will you come down to st. George and do a dts from the taco bell there? You're on your way to vegas It's only an hour outside of vegas. We all go there for a special I say we just do it do an episode from the taco bell in st. George Let's do it. I'm in I don't know what's good. It's a it's a college retirement town. I was gonna say do they have Wi-Fi? It's a college It's a college town and a retirement Retired college. Yeah, I was like, wait a minute. So you graduated your A lot of a lot of old rich people go there to retire and a lot of people go to college there It's it's not what's it called Dixie college because it's a party school It's so it's a real dichotomy that place because they party with all the retired people They really know how to party down there But they're taco bell. I don't know some someone's where I want to retire. That sounds great. They got a great taco bell A bunch of party and college students Good time just a side check night. Everyone gets paid for the month Yep, boy. It has a real way of making all other taco bells seem bad though Dts has never never really known a taco bell other than I would should I actually I will not say that all taco Bells are bad. It's just I understand what I get. I'm not like, oh, I'm eating this taco bell taco And I'm like eating the most amazing Tex-Mex meal. I want to get my friend Ned Burt's He's a history history professor at the University of Hawaii and he when we were fresh out of college Made an attempt to visit as many taco bells in the United States as possible and compare them I want to get him to talk to you about this. I wonder if you even You know who we should rope in is Veronica Oh, yeah Did she ever tell you about her history of taco? Like she used to eat a taco bell so much in college or high our high school that they nicknamed her taco bellmont Yeah, she's talked about it a bunch. I remember Um, in fact here at nerd tackler. She was back in 2313. She came pulled me aside and says is there a taco bell within driving distance So I lean and I I lean and I Love taco bell. It was one of our earlier bonding moments when we when we first started dating We were like, you know, I kind of like taco bell it's like you too and And so when we moved to la and we found this place, it's really near like ridiculously near a taco bell It's dangerously near a taco bell So we have had to limit ourselves to be like Not more than once a month if that yeah You know, I I don't need to do that because once they eat taco bell That's a you don't want to go back for a while. I don't need to be better. I don't know why you go back It doesn't have that effect on b or else. I would know it's because I have a wife that likes taco She likes to talk about kfc combo store because she likes to check right and I don't like their chicken I don't like kfc chicken I can think of I can think of all the places I've lived with eileen based on where the nearest taco bell was because we always needed to know And the worst place we lived with san rafael. It was the farthest from a taco bell We ever lived we had to go all the way to downtown san francisco or downtown magically. They were healthier. Oh my gosh We lost so much weight I mean one of the things about taco bell is you can eat fairly healthy there if you try you can't It was we did this thing on tms. They got rated the most healthy fast food place because of their uh, al fresco menu And there's like really healthy options on there better than any other I mean again, it's in the category that they exist I mean if all you're eating is doritos locos every day, then that's not going to be terribly helpful Why are you going to taco bell if not for the doritos locos that the al fresco menu there just to give you a guilt-free away of just a five you in the door and then they say the doritos locos, uh Yeah, that looks pretty good. That's that's what that's just a that's just a u-shaped dorito chip with The taco bell meat in it that signed me up Ah The inflavored water same idea But relating it back to the story Making a taco is a much more difficult task for a robot. No Yeah, no depends depends on the way you want to make the taco Like if you do like the traditional where it's just the Corn tortilla and you lay it flat, you know, it's not a hard shell That's still that's still harder than pick burger put burger flip burger. But if it's hard shell I agree with tom, but if they're hard shells you could automate the crap out of that Because it's just like shunk shunk shunk shunk move movement like you just move it down the line It wouldn't be hard, but it's off shell or like a burrito style thing that could get tricky No, there there's a place that lets you make your own burritos and it's automated Or is it I'm trying to remember but it rolls out like it rolls out when it's done No, those are human workers at chipotle, roger. That's our robot. No, not chipotle Hey Really if you take the if you take the taco bell model All you need is robot arms with a cock gun of whatever filling that needs to have beans and beef Bean squirt meat squirt cheese squirt When you're done eating squirt Uh, I think we're gonna go with uh, what's up with power grid secure. Yes, I think you're right. Thank you That is you know a good good producing there. We're there. You made it, you know, I I Where did we go? Oh elf? El Farolitos was a really good Used to be a chain, but a really good like local taco Taco ria over by the air south san francisco airport And their prices were like if you had a there was a taco bell like two stores down and that Taco bell was never filled except for people who were using the drive-thru man Nothing beats tito's tacos. I don't go to taco bell for tacos I go to taco bell for weird things like maxi melts and stuff, but tito's tacos here is Amazing and all they do is tacos enchilada. I'm sorry tacos tamales And I think they might have like these the fried burritos not the full on chimichangas Well, they call them burritos, but yeah, essentially We're uh, no one should confuse taco bell with mexican food. No, it's text mix Ish I don't even I wouldn't even say that having actually ate a lot of text. It was invent like the store started out down here So I'm taco bell is its own category. It's it's a taco bell food Irvine. Oh, we know when it was the history. I remember Clint Bell San Bernardino. That's why it has that unique flavor. It's inland empire max Yes I didn't know is uh, all the fast food restaurants started in the la area. It feels like yeah, because it's the car people are like Ooh, I want some fast I got a show to do. I got a I got to be on flipper You need flippy Flippy flipper the show the the show the taco and the dolphins his name was flippy flippy faithful And You know what I have one thing I was very disappointed in moving down here. I know The mexican was the very very mediocre mexican food and in my immediate area and maybe a 10 mile bullseye I actually had to go I don't have 10 mile five mile. I actually had to go into eagle rock Not even that. I don't know that eagle rock had to go like, uh parts of east LA to get Really good mexican And the place I found everything nearby to you. Yeah, no if they they do but it's like the blandest most generic mechs It's like chi chi's I worked Oh, you did. Yep. I hated it It's a celebration of food. I was 16. So I hated everything went in but still A burrito it's beans meat cheese I saw people do things in the kitchen that would make me never want to eat a cheese again. Yikes Yeah, which makes me think every restaurants like that. So I try not to think about it Uh, not all restaurants the what hashtag once in california are actually pretty tight because the state Health health department is really strict about that like they're Like some people call them like super you know Super nazis about it like they'll they'll go through your entire restaurant with like A flashlight and get on all fours look underneath everything like they're They're super super anal about it Which is good for the customer because then you know, you won't be sick sure cross cross your fingers Unless you're allergic to shellfish or something To do it's actually one reason why I avoid buffets Yeah, I don't I don't trust buffets Sneezes on them. It's the worst. I hate it Like I don't understand. I get vegas is known for buffets but when we used to go for For revision three it's like who's the buffets like why? There's plenty of other things. They're really good to eat around here that doesn't involve you dipping your The serving spoon into something 20 million other people that the serving spoon into All right, folks, we are published. Thanks again for joining us. Have a lovely day and we'll see you tomorrow Well, we'll talk about the fact that Equifax had admin as their login and password in argentina