 Good morning, again. All right, morning, everybody. We're starting a little bit late, but that's okay. Thank you for coming. I'm glad you're all here. This is our first webinar. I don't know if the difference between a webinar and a meeting with a lot of people and a presenter, but we'll figure it out. I'm giving you an update on EAB. What's the latest and greatest? And given our sites or our small crowd today, if you have any questions, feel free to ask during the program. And I'll post the recording of this on YouTube, but I can also send a copy or post a copy, rather, of the original PowerPoint if you want. I can put that anywhere. So very briefly, I will give a background and introduction. I think most of us know about EAB and are familiar with it. It's emerald ash borer. It is the insect. It's an Asian species of pupressedids, especially the agrylus, are metallic wood-boring beetles. And it came to the U.S. in the mid-1990s in the Detroit, Michigan area. It came in the 1990s, but nobody figured out what it was until about 2002. And they knew right away at that point that it was going to be a big problem. And it kills all ash trees, as ash in the genus Fraxinus. It does have preferences. It loves our green ash and our black ash. So that's going to be causing some problems for us. There's a species called blue ash that it doesn't do well on, but it can attack. But we don't have blue ash in North Dakota. Unless you ask Todd West, there's a super-secret one that he knows about somewhere. The Manchurian ash that we sometimes plant in boulevards and sometimes does well, sometimes not. That is also attacked here, but being that it's an Asian species of ash, it has a little bit of resistance to EAB. And there's our lovely green ash that we see all over the place, the most common tree in North Dakota. In boulevards, in shelter belts, it's a native forest. It's very common. I don't know if it's the most common, but it's close. And if you're looking for a publication, how do I identify ash trees? There you go. This is an NDSU Extension publication, F-1633. So there's the URL. Todd's writing it down, so I want me to wait for you, Todd. No. Okay, we'll go on then. Okay, this does not kill mountain ash trees. Mountain ash trees are in the genus Sorbus and that is in the Rose family. So the European mountain ash, Shoei mountain ash, Oakleaf mountain ash, all the mountain ashes, they are not attacked by EAB and they will be fine. So that is it in terms of introduction and background. You're up to speed. Okay, one of the questions I often get is where is EAB? How far has it expanded? And I kind of got this image of where is EAB? Where is Waldo? Well, because sometimes looking for EAB and trying to find it is really hard to do. So that being said, here is the latest and greatest EAB information. The yellow are the counties where it has been found in previous years and the red is the counties where it has been found this year, new county detections and it's spreading out that original find back in 2002 was in the Detroit, Michigan area, southeast Michigan. New finds this year include Superior, Wisconsin, which is right across the river from Duluth and in Boulder, Colorado. And these things have us a little worried. Superior is as far north as Fargo anyway. I don't think it's any closer than Minneapolis is, but it's still as far north and it has some concerns. And then it skipped completely over most of the Great Plains and ended up in Boulder, Colorado. So where are we going to find it next? I don't know. If you're looking for where EAB is, this is the map that is constantly updated, monthly, maybe every other month, throughout the growing season, but that is the latest and greatest if you want to find the spread of emerald ash borer, go to that website. Is EAB in North Dakota? I give this caveat, I say not yet. Not yet as far as we know. This, you know, it could be here and we don't know it. Most of the finds, EAB has been in a location for three to five years before it has been found. So it could be here, but right now we're saying it's not because we haven't found it. How do we know that? Well, besides all the eyeballs out there looking for it, there's a trapping program. There's a federally funded trapping program by USDA AFIS. Nearly 500 traps throughout the state, and here's the map of the trap locations in 2012. 2013 was similar in terms of trap locations throughout the state. This is the purple sticky traps. These are, these do okay. They've been improved over the years. The lure has been improved. The color was tested. Green versus purple. Kind of a lime green, actually. And this is what they came up with, and it worked pretty well. I do want to say 2013 was similar in terms of locations. And we tried something a little different this year, and I say we because I'm the one who kind of nudged my colleagues to do it. There's a pheromone that's been discovered and developed for EAB finally, and they're using it in Canada, and we decided to get some. I had a little bit of extra funding. Aaron Bergdorf from North Dakota Forest Service had a little bit of extra funding, and we bought a couple dozen, three dozen lures that we put into these traps, the pheromone lures. And the long and the short of it is, no EAB was found throughout the state, even with those pheromone lures. So far, so good. We're pretty pleased about that, and hopefully we'll continue to not find EAB. Yeah, we're actually excited about being not successful. Okay, so besides the trapping program, we have been running this first detector program for the last three years, four years, really. It's a cooperative effort among NDSU Extension, ND Forest Service, and ND Department of Agriculture. And we've trained over 240 people since 2010, and basically these are extra eyes in the field. And it's part of that is, we do have the PowerPoints, we show pictures, show slides, and that's great and that helps. The part of it is we actually peel logs, and we look for EAB, and we show people where to find EAB, how to look for EAB. And we found some really neat insects in these logs under the bark, but we haven't actually found EAB. Thank goodness. You know, that's one of my fears is that we'll be doing one of these training sessions, and that's where we actually find EAB. And maybe at the end of this, I'll ask Steven Todd, who I know have done some log dealing, what your opinion about this is, what your experiences are, and we'll continue this. Whoops. Hit the wrong button. Okay, hold on a second. Let me make sure I'm still recording here. Okay, I am still recording. I hit the wrong button, sorry. Okay, 2014, we're planning to work with master gardeners in the first detector program, and Todd and Esther will be meeting with you to discuss this, where we're going to hopefully start in Fargo. I'm not sure exactly when, sometime over the winter, and I might do this as an advanced master gardener training, or I'm not sure how this is going to work with the master gardener group, but we'll talk and figure it out. Okay, so beyond the first detector program, there are several other methods that are being used in other places around the country that we're not using. There's a branch sampling technique that works pretty good. Statistically, you've got a certain chance of finding EAB if it's there. There's the stuck program, which cracks me up. Sticky traps using cadavers that actually have dead EABs attached to sticky traps. It's pretty funny. Dogs have been trained to sniff out, maybe not EAB yet, but they can sniff out ash, ash logs, ash firewood, and they're still working on that in terms of actually finding the insect. There's a predatory wasp that people monitor sometimes to see what it's bringing back and if it's bringing back EAB. And also, people have used gurgled trap trees to bring in ash, to bring in EAB. And we're not using that here. It's very time consuming, pretty effective, but very time consuming. Another common question is North Dakota too cold for EAB. And I've often said no, but now I'm saying probably no. Probably not. Here's the native range of EAB and I do want to point out that EAB does not stop at the border of China and Mongolia or China and Russia. EAB certainly ranges further north, but that's the map we have. And if you look at the latitude of Fargo, the latitude of Botno, compared to this, we're plenty far north. Sorry, the native range of EAB is plenty far north, such that, you know, it should be able to survive here. And okay, oh, that didn't come through. That high point in China is at 53 degrees north and then Moscow, Russia is at 55 degrees north and Moscow has planted a lot of our green ash over there. It's a great street tree. And what they have found is they have found EAB at 55 degrees north latitude. So that's, it doesn't provide me with a whole lot of hope about EAB not surviving winters here. Joe? Can I interrupt for a second? Sure. If you're just going by pure latitude, do you think that's as accurate a descriptor as other weather conditions? I know that they're far north than us, but do they have the same weather conditions that we have? Cold temperature and that type of stuff. Steve, that's a great question and it's a fair question. I don't know. I can only assume it's a continental climate. I'm really not familiar with that part of the world though and that's a good question. Esther? Well, Steve, I had something similar too. So they found that infestation in Superior, Wisconsin, but I believe that Superior, Wisconsin has that lake effect around it and as such is like zone 5 as opposed to zone 3 and 4 like we are. So it's hard for us to extrapolate, okay, if Superior, Wisconsin has it, it doesn't necessarily mean that we would get it either. And that's correct. Superior is actually there's a little bit of the lake effect there such that if you look at the zone maps Superior does get, I think at zone 5, like you said, it is a little bit warmer. Now that being said, oops, dang, I hit the wrong button again. Sorry. Okay. Here we go. But now we're starting to wonder if maybe parts of the state might be okay and this is based on a very new article. This was published last summer DeSantis et al in agricultural and forest meteorology. And basically they did a lot of temperature modeling. It's a lot of math, a lot of statistics, stuff that's way over my head. But they modeled the temperature, but they also modeled EAB populations and ash populations and what EAB can take, how cold it can get based on laboratory studies. And along in the short of it is what it turned out is they produced this nice map. And in the green in the green areas theoretically winter temperatures are supposed to get cold enough to kill EAB. Now that's in theory and I'm not sure how often that's supposed to be. That's one thing I really was confused about in that paper. They said some place in that zone will get cold enough every four years. Okay, well, maybe it gets cold enough in Batno one year and then Duluth in, you know, another year and it doesn't get cold enough in Batno for another 10, 15 years. So populations can build up again. Nevertheless I'm not preaching this as gospel truth that it's too cold here. It might be. This is actually a little bit of hope. But let's be cautious about that. So whoops. So, Joe? Sorry, one more interruption. How far has EAB been detected into Canada? It's in the provinces, Ontario and Quebec, but it's about the same latitude as the UP, the upper peninsula of Michigan. Okay. So about as far north as it's been found in the U.S. Okay, and there's Superior, Wisconsin, which is in their green zone, which is very interesting because like you pointed out, Esther, yeah, Superior does get that lake effect and it is actually in a different hardiness zone. So that's here. How do we control it? Well, there's, we have a publication on that. Jan Kanota led this one. So, publication E1634, Biology and Integrated Pest Management of the Emerald Ash Borer in North Dakota. Wait till Todd's done writing it down. It's just like... Oh, and just drying the insect. Oh, sure. Okay, it's just like in front of a class when I teach. Okay. When we think of Integrated Pest Management, of course we think of cultural control, biological control and chemical, some combination. So, you know, cultural control. Let's cut down all infested ash trees plus a half a mile around them to get ahead of the infestation. And that's what they tried early on in Michigan and it didn't work. We could cut down as many ash trees as we can find and we're still not going to find them all. Additionally, finding the insect at low population densities is really hard. So, this doesn't work. So, basically, what I'm recommending now is I'd like people to try to pre-mitigate in terms of a cultural practice anyway. Pre-mitigate is what I'm calling it. I don't know if that's the right word. But basically, cut down some ash now and plant with other species. And the example I give are trees like this, trees that are growing under a power line that are causing problems. Cut them down and plant some crab apples under the power line. Get a new canopy started now so that by the time EAB gets here, we've got a new canopy growing and well established. Basically, we're not going to get the benefits from a smaller tree or a younger tree that we do from a mature tree, but we can at least get that change started. I'm not recommending removing trees that are in good shape. Trees that are in great shape, leave them. Leave them for now if you want. Trees that don't have any problems. Trees that are providing a lot of benefits. You know, maybe that cold temperature issue combined with some other factors will begin to control the insect. I don't recommend that we just put all our eggs in one basket and get rid of every ash tree right now, but, you know, the flip side is I don't want to do nothing either. So, it's hard to see. You can't really see on this picture, but those trees do actually have the orange mark of death and they were going to be taken out and replaced. The other cultural technique is pretty much public outreach in terms of people not moving firewood. Don't move firewood and burn it where you buy it. Those are the consistent messages that we're trying to pass around, pass along throughout the state as well as throughout the country. And I think it's working okay usually. We do have an EAB video and there's the URL for that. And it's about a five and a half minute video. It's fairly short, but it talks about EAB, where it's found and what we can do to prevent its introduction into North Dakota. Yeah, don't bring firewood. In terms of biological control, there's a couple of different things going on here. And for native pests, native predators, native parasites of EAB, really it turns out to be too little, too late. I know some people get excited about this and oh, there's opportunities, but so far really it's been too little, too late. I think the percentage control is like 1% of EAB populations. Whether that's some type of woodpecker or this atanacolus wasp, predatory wasp, really they're not doing a whole lot unless EAB is already at a high population. There's a study that came out this year that was talking about the woodpeckers and how their populations have increased. And it's woodpeckers and nut hatches, I think. And yeah, I'm not surprised, but it always happens after EAB has already reached its peak. So not enough to keep EAB under control. Now that being said, then there's been this a big, big effort by the federal government to bring in parasites from China, parasitic wasps and three that have been really promising are this oobius, sphethius and tetrasticus. Oobius hits the eggs, tiny little things. I think sphethius and tetrasticus both hit the larvae of EAB. And this is where they've been released, all those green areas, all those green dots. Although this map is a little bit older from March of this year, you can see there have been releases in a lot of states throughout the country. And I've begun discussions with, again, Department of Ag, North Dakota Department of Ag, North Dakota Forest Service to see if we can get some permits in place before we find EAB here to make sure we can do these releases as well. And what they've been fighting is this. First of all, oobius and tetrasticus are doing really well. Sorry, keep hitting that wrong button. Maybe I'll teach myself. The sphethius has not been doing so good simply because it's a little bit colder further north. They might try using it further south and they're hoping that it'll work. So with those two, at least the oobius and tetrasticus, they're shown promise. The populations of these insects are growing. These parasitoid insects are growing and they're spreading. They've put these releases out there and they're recovering these insects year after year further and further away from the release sites. And the number or percentage of EAB that are parasitized is also growing. After four years, they were getting like 20% of parasitization and it seems to be working. So we're pretty excited about that. In the long run, could that be part of a control measure? Yeah, we're hoping. Going back to that sphethius, I do want to point out there's a different sphethius that they're going to try. I don't remember the species name, but it's from further north in China and they're hoping that that would be just another insect that will be available to control EAB. So that's it for biological control. Chemical control. Everybody wants to know, what can I spray on my tree? I'll tell you later. Before you go on into chemical control, getting back to biological control, what sort of tests are done prior to releasing these parasites with our native insects? Is there any concern about what impact they may have on insects or parasitizing beneficial insects here? Yes, Steve, that's a great question and yes, there is concern and there's a big long protocol that the people who want to do these releases have to go through first. A testing protocol to see if the parasites will switch and start attacking native insects. And I'd have to recommend, without getting into it too much, I would really like to recommend if you go to EAB University and that's from the main emeraldashboard.info page. If you go to EAB University, there's a series of archive webinars there. And there was a webinar about two months ago on this very issue that goes into much greater detail about the process. And it's about 50 minutes, a little under an hour. I watched it the other day during lunch and it really describes it well and the process they've had to go through to ensure that it's, I'm sorry, not to ensure, but to determine the risks, the risks and potential rewards. And for the most part the risks are minimal they believe. That is, a lot of the testing showed these parasites did not attack our native species. Okay, thanks. Sorry, I kind of rambled there a little bit. Yeah, long and short of it EAB University, watch the webinar on biological control. Okay, chemical control. I put it in here. Okay, chemical control. I first want to point out that any chemical control is only has a chance to work if the tree is not too far gone. These two trees here, there's way too much dieback. The tree on the left is what? 90% tree on the right maybe 40 or 50% dieback. Those trees are too far gone. They don't even stand a chance. These two trees here, the one on the left is 90% gone. The one on the right might have a chance. The current recommendations are that if a tree has less than about 25% dieback it has a chance. But beyond that don't waste your time and money. So that being said the big three are still imidacloprid, dinotefuran and MMM benzoate. We'll talk about these briefly. And imidacloprid is the most common. Imidacloprid is very commonly used. It's the active ingredient in the Bayer advanced tree and shrub, insect control. And there's a whole variety of products out there. Bayer had the patent on this until about 6 or 7 years ago. So since that time a whole bunch of generics have been coming in. And they're all the same. It's 1.47% imidacloprid. But this is the one that homeowners can use. It can be applied as a soil drench by homeowners. Professionally it can be applied as a soil injection or stem injection. And nobody's really doing a lot of research on this aspect anymore. They did it several years ago right away. And they found it was like 70 to 80% effective. Which is good. I don't know if that's good enough though. But very commonly used. And apply it in the spring just as the leaves are starting to unfurl. Okay. There's another one called dinotefuran. Dinotefuran is the same family of chemical as imidacloprid. It's in the neonicotinoid group. And dinotefuran is a little bit different. For one thing I want to point out this can be used as a bark spray. It can be used as a soil drench but there's another way it can be used and that's spraying it on the bark. And letting it absorb through the bark, it'll go into the xylem and be taken up to the top of the tree. And you know, okay, so what can I spray on my tree? There you go. There is a homeowner a homeowner formulation called xylem. And there's the one of course safari is a professional use. And in terms of results, it's about the same effectiveness as imidacloprid. And then the big gun is mmectin benzoate and that's sold under the trade name triage with a little umlaut with two dots over the A. I love that name. This is professionally used only and it's with a stem injection and this is 99 plus percent effective. This is great stuff. It really gets EAB. It is effective for two years for sure and some of the tests have even showed up to three years. In terms of cost this is the latest I have heard in terms of cost. It depends on the company of course. They're charging anywhere from $8 to $16 per inch of dbh. And so for a 10 inch tree cost anywhere from $80 to $160 for the injection. Now again that injection will last for two years. There's enough residual in the canopy of the tree that it'll keep EAB under control for two years. What kind of questions do you all have about chemical control before we move on? I'm going through a lot of material really fast. What about acetate? Acetate? Acetate is I believe does have a little bit of systemic activity but in terms of effectiveness in the tests very little effectiveness. I guess I'm talking about the implant cartridge that they've been advertising. Right, ACE caps. It will help to control EAB, but it certainly doesn't do as well as these others. I can't give you numbers on the research results but I can tell you I do know they're not close especially to triage. Nothing's close to triage. But I think it's even lower than that 70 to 80% found with imidacloprid. That's good, thank you. Spraying leaves doesn't work. So spraying with 7. Spraying with whatever chemical insecticide is out there. It just doesn't work to control the insect. Because the life stage that does the damage is the larvae. The larvae are under the bark. The adults, when you're spraying adults on the foliage you can knock them back and make a big difference. The recommendations are don't treat the trees until EAB has been found within about 15 miles of where you're at. Otherwise it could be a big waste of time and money. There is a counterargument to this. The counterargument is what if EAB is here and we don't know it? Sure, that's a fair enough question. I can't answer that question but this is the current recommendation. There's a joint statement from Extension, North Dakota Department of Ag and North Dakota Forest Service that states this because that's what has been found further east where they've been dealing with EAB on a regular basis. Certainly people can do that if they want but we're not recommending it. Ash replacement species what can we use to replant? The first thing I want to say is no one species should replace ash. Diversify. That's how we got in this mess in the first place is that ash was the species to replace American elk and now there's an ash pest. Diversify, diversify, diversify. Like I said species really can replace ash. Green ash is so broadly adapted it's really a great species. I know why it was over planted because it can handle droughts but it can handle flooding. It can handle salty soils. It can do well on really nice soils too. So finding a species that can do that is next to impossible and green ash was great species. Now that being said we've also developed this North Dakota tree selector program which I'll go through very briefly. It could use some work but it's a good start. North Dakota tree selector if you click on the website go to the website there's a list of 102 different species of trees and shrubs that will grow throughout most of North Dakota. But if you want to narrow it down to a tree that can replace green ash let's look at these general characteristics on the upper left. Let's choose a tree and shrub let's choose tree and for leaf retention we'll do deciduous trees. Deciduous trees that actually narrows it down to about 50 species. And then if we go down to growth rate and we choose mature height tall trees trees greater than 45 feet at maturity okay we've narrowed it down to about 20 species. This is great. There's actually quite a few options for replacing green ash. Want to narrow it down even more? Okay let's go down to ornamental characteristics and ornamental characteristics I've chosen here is not fall colors flowers. Something that has a nice big showy flower in the spring and that really narrowed it down to one species and that's American linden. In terms of ornamental characteristics you could choose fall color but I'll tell you right now at least for trees most everything's yellow. We just really don't have a lot of options. And that being said we've got this American linden there's a very quick and brief description of it along with pictures those are the characteristics that it has whether they're general characteristics growth ornamental and as well as tolerances I take the flooding tolerance I don't want to say the green assault but there's a lot of the information about flooding is really more it's not tests so much as it's observations and that being said okay we've narrowed it down to a few choices. Hey let's print a PDF of this. A PDF you can print this out you have a nice little handout to give to your client. So any questions about that for right now? Or not? Okay. Say Joe what's the website for that North Dakota tree selector? That is I got Steve I have to back up through all this because I don't have it off the top of my head. There you go. Do you see it there? Can you hang on just a second I want to scroll down because I just did a search for it I couldn't find it. You know we've been having a hard time with that. I have been trying to fix that issue because the search engines aren't finding it they're not recognizing it and I don't know why. I don't know if it's that there's that little dash in the URL and the web address or what but yeah the search engines are having a hard time finding it. Got it. Okay. Alright that being said we're going to wrap it up here. There's a few more things I want to cover very quickly there is a publication on EAB lookalikes and this was put together by Jerry Falske of the entomology department here at NDSU and it's a publication E-1604 and I love this publication it's nice and colorful and pretty but it gives the most common insects that people will confuse with the AB including I've had people bring number four to me that's a popular bore click beetles are common number 18 there the cicada can't imagine people confusing that but they sometimes do. EAB Awareness Week will be in May of this year May 18th to 24th and we have a variety of activities planned Todd I think I'm going to have an EAB suit for you to wear and you can use in your programming Will there be cake? As much cake as you can eat I'll make sure you have cake Thank you. You bet if you want information on Emerald Ashboard this is the website that's the federally funded federally maintained website I'm not sure how up to date it's kept anymore but it's updated every now and again and there's actually quite a bit of information here that I think you'd find useful and my question that I would ask of the crowd here all seven of us is what are your educational resource needs what types of materials do we need to develop to meet your needs? I wouldn't mind having more or less a dumb version of what you just showed us something that I could present at a horticulture society meeting or something that wouldn't take more than 20 or 30 minutes but in that it doesn't really mean to sound like it needs to be dumbed down but just the facts like our friend Colombo used to say or Norris Joe Friday Joe Friday said that people are often asking what do they look like where are they at just a brief not even too brief but a little bit brief for presentation what you just got because the stuff there is really excellent material it's just that most people don't really want to know that much right right and this was certainly directed towards the professionals towards you all rather than towards the general public now that being said Steve in terms of the topics that are covered in such a presentation are there additional topics you would add are there topics you would cut out of this? you know a concern that I ran into and this is kind of related to EAB in the middle clover but a concern that I ran into at a horticulture society meeting here just recently and maybe Esther or Kaasha could chime in on this too and that is the way we are using the middle clover to control a lot of other kinds of insects besides EAB particularly stale insects and aphids and things and trees other than ash for example trees that blossom quite a bit flowering crabs for example what impact is that having on honey bees and other pollinating insects if that chemical cancel case through the blossoms is that a concern at all and I know that is not EAB related but it is in the sense that we are using the same product for a lot of our trees in our yards besides just on ash is that a concern? Steve this is Esther I just saw another webinar on the effects of a middle clover on pollinators and you are right they say that some of the neonicotinoids are part of the problem as to colony collapse disorder so you are absolutely right about that I guess I wouldn't use a middle clover particularly on flowering crab apples and others that are pollinated by bees say Esther where was that webinar located or is that something that we could also watch? Sure I guess it is really not a webinar it was a TED talk by Marla Spivak from the University of Minnesota she is the one that got the MacArthur grant for working on honey bees and colony collapse disorder so yes I can certainly pass that around now it is kind of a dumb down version since it was a TED talk but I am sure I could find something more informative than the TED talk too for you Okay Absolutely Sure Back in early 2011 there was a big to do amongst all the folks who are working on EAP further east and there was a series of documents that came out from different sides of the issue there was a public letter signed by a bunch of people and and it was this very issue of the effects of emidicloprid on pollinators the argument with ash is that ash is wind pollinated and therefore the neonicotinoids emidicloprid has no effect on pollinators when it is used in ash I don't know whatever became of that because it really pretty much died down at the beginning of 2011 and I can send you the list of who published what and when but there was a publication more of a list of publications, references developed by a fellow out of Cornell that he listed bees and when they would gather was a polliner nectar it was something from ash that there was the potential there for them to be maybe they didn't actually pollinate the tree but they could have gathered pollen I'm really not sure I wasn't following it too closely but there's a whole series of references there it went back and forth for a little while but anything since but Joe, I guess there's a possibility that the bees could be collecting propolis that's kind of the waxy substance that you find on the buds so maybe there is the possibility that that could be spreading the neonicotinoids even from ash now the propolis is what the bees gather to use as kind of an antiseptic type of thing in their for hygiene purposes to prevent fungal and bacterial growth hmm okay I am certainly an entomologist this is news to me so I was going to say they weren't saying that they were gathering that material it was nectar but I don't know I'd have to look it up again Steve it's certainly a concern that one kind of on a related note how much imidacloprid is being used all over the place and is resistance going to develop and that's what nobody knows but it is a question and a concern that people have these days you know the other thing that I'm concerned about is that the nurseries and I'm not going to point fingers but a lot of them maybe just their employees look at imidacloprid as some sort of a magic wand and controlling all kinds of leaf eating insects and so they're recommending it way beyond just for EAB control and I'm not sure that this has actually been one of the reasons it can't be healthy to have that not getting into the edible fruit like apples for example and so maybe that's an educational opportunity for us to maybe visit with them about that or something but I know that they use it they recommend it way beyond it's use in ash trees and most types of problems I'm concerned about one of the questions I would have is where does the chemical go to within the tree that's one thing when I was in Michigan visiting they were doing a study with radio label imidacloprid and seeing where it traveled within the tree and it doesn't go everywhere there's certain places it can go based on its chemistry based on the size of the molecule and other places where it can't go and I would really curious if it can reach much to call it if it can reach the flowers so and it might I don't know I just I really want to learn more myself on this topic well I think that's an excellent point I'm sure somebody if they haven't done research on it maybe would be interested in doing research on it but to be able to determine just how far that it actually moves through the tree system would be really important to know because it might alleviate some concern on the other hand it might cause some concern too right, right, yeah personally I just need to know more information so okay what other educational resources do you all need what would be helpful to you deafening silence Joe I don't know if you can see this or not but I have a little tiny emerald ash for you know vial I don't know if all the agents have those or not but that would be kind of nice if nothing else just to take it out and send it to you and say hey I found this weird bug but you know it's kind of a visual that it gives you the actual size and the coloring and what it looks like and so I don't know if this would be of value I don't know if every agent has them but I have this song I believe it was from you yeah we sent out vacation kits a few years ago and I think if not every office most of the offices got them and I think it was two years ago I offered them again and got a few takers on that and that's one of the items within there and so I think a lot of folks do have that I'm not sure how many all right thank you all right well if there are other things that you need please let us know and we can develop that kind of material and or items there are a lot of promotional and outreach items available Joe yes now you had talked about the master gardener EAB course our first detector course being done in Fargo you know maybe we could do a webinar similar to what you did here that could be used for continuing education for master gardeners that are further out in the state that won't be able to come to training here sure be happy to do that I'm very happy to utilize the technology since we have it you know and if it saves me from traveling especially on daylight today as I'm sitting here and watching the snow fall I think that's wonderful so absolutely okay well if there are other things that you think we can develop let us know and be happy to do that and if you have other questions let us know for that too nice job Joe yes thank you Joe thanks like I said I was trying to hit the high points there is so much information available on EAB it's pretty incredible that being said I really tried to hit the latest and greatest some of the newer information that we have out there and I could give that whole webinar on biological control but I'll just send you to that because she did an excellent job so if you need anything else let me know otherwise have a great day and stay warm you too thanks Joe take care