 Hello and welcome we are so glad that you found your way back to the nonprofit show or if this is your first time here we're glad that you found us for your first time and we hope that you enjoy it so much that you will join us again. I am thrilled to have with us in conversation Jeff Shaw, Jeff is the Vice President of institutional advancement at Harris Stowe State University and Jeff is here to talk to us about people of color and nonprofit fundraising and so this is definitely a topic that I'm eager to learn from I already shared with Jeff in our preliminary conversation, you know, I do not have the lived experience in this area and so I am all ears all eyes all heart ready to learn from you Jeff and really excited to do so. Hi Julia Patrick for creating this grandiose concept called the nonprofit show Julia is the CEO of the American nonprofit Academy, taken some much deserved time away and I'm honored to serve alongside. For her I'm Jared ransom nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven group, so honored to serve alongside Julia because day in and day out since March, we have produced now nearly 900 episodes. And a huge thank you of gratitude goes to our friends at Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy at National University nonprofit thought leader, your part time controller staffing boutique nonprofit nerd as well as nonprofit tech talk. These very many are most of them I should say that's better grammar have been with us from the very beginning and so grateful to have their their trust and their relationship with us to have conversations with thought leaders like Jeff. If you missed any of our episodes or at some point during today's episode with Jeff Shaw you say somebody else needs to hear this I want to share this conversation with someone else. We got you are friends you can download the app right now if you're watching you can scan that QR code code with your phone, we can also listen to us on podcast and streaming broadcast platform so I always like to say wherever you like to binge watch or listen to your entertainment. You can probably find us there to go ahead and pull up the nonprofit show. Jeff, so glad to have you with us. The preliminary, you know, intro stuff is done and now we're launching into the nitty gritty conversation but for those of you watching and listening I do want to honor our guest and share with you who he is and where he's joining us from. So Jeff Shaw is here, Vice President of institutional advancement at Harris Stowe State University welcome to you Jeff. Thank you so much. I appreciate it and also love that nonprofit nerd title I think that's that's pretty, pretty cool. You know, my daughter calls me a nerd because I have an IT background but you know I love that title. But yeah, I'm so happy to be here today. Yeah, I'm Vice President of institutional advancement, Harris Stowe State University. I've been here for two years now but I've been in the higher education space for close to 20 years now or right at about 20 years now so yeah I've been doing this for a minute but but very very happy to be here. So glad to have you and thank you one of our first talking points if you will is really going to dive us into your entry point into the sector so Jeff let's kick us off I'd love to learn from you how you broke into the nonprofit fundraising space, what that looks like and as much of the journey as you can tell us in this very truncated timeline. Okay well get ready for an interesting ride because it is an interesting one. Okay. So, you know, I started off like most people with no interest or even thought of being a fundraiser so my, my, I came out of college with a psychology degree, you know, and most of what I thought is I want to help people, you know, from a mental standpoint, I started off at a nonprofit that was a, it was the HIV AIDS hotline, and I was a crisis counselor I was a telephone crisis counselor. So that's what I did, and I was very happy to do that because they taught us about counseling and active listening and all the wonderful things that you do to help people when they're going through a particular crisis. And I did that for a while, because I felt like that's what I wanted to do I wanted to be a counselor I was a victim advocate, so I was an on call advocate. I did, I was a domestic violence facilitator so people had to go through a domestic violence course for 26 weeks they came to my class and I helped them get through our domestic violence issues so I did that for a long time and then all of a sudden, believe it or not. I decided I wanted to be an IT guy so I kind of shifted gears and I went back to school. I got a network administration degree I got a Microsoft systems engineer certification so I became a full fledged IT guy and that's when I started in higher education I got a job at Florida A&M University. I wanted to be an IT person to basically support their, at that time, well what they call TRIO programs which is like Upward Bound and College Reach Out and those types of programs that they have at the university. But I knew I wanted to do a little bit more than that. So instead of just working in like a computer lab I actually applied for a job on campus to support from the IT level, the advancement department. Now I didn't know what advancement was. Now you do. I was just like, hey, you know, this is a great opportunity for me to become an IT professional in this space of advancement and university relations and be able to support these folks so almost immediately after I got there they put me through a training to understand what, you know, like their CRM and like what constituents were and you know what moves management and all these different elements of fundraising were so that I could support them from IT standpoint. So as I'm learning, and this is where my counseling comes in, as I'm learning how to support them I'm also doing this whole active listening thing I'm going to everybody saying so what is your job and what is it that you do and how can I best support you so I was using my to help me understand what their needs were so that I can properly support them at the IT person and I got it I got to admit people looked at me very strangely because they had never met an IT person that actually want to sit down and talk to them. So that I was I was much a very different type of IT person but I will say that experience taught me all the different elements of advancement and development and how all those pieces kind of work together into fundraising. So if you go back to about 2009. This is about a year after Obama's campaign. I was in a board meeting, helping out you know with the IT needs of our foundation board members and I remember there was this huge conversation about, look at the way Obama was able to utilize mobile technology to really galvanize his base to raise money to organize events and you know people could text Obama to these numbers or what have you to do all of these wonderful things and our board was saying, Why can't we leverage that type of technology to help us raise more money. And at the time, you know, mobile giving wasn't really a big thing back then but I remember my vice president thinking okay that's something we'll look into. So after that board meeting I went to my my vice president I said, Hey, you know why don't you let me use what I know in technology let me take on this project and see what I can do to leverage technology to raise more money so she said great job, take it on so what I did is I, I started looking at the companies that were doing a lot of that stuff for the campaign and things like that and I found a company called M give and at the time, you can text, and it will put $5 on your phone bill and you know what have you. And I organized a mobile giving campaign for Florida A&M University, the very first mobile giving campaign of any university not just a HBCU but of any university in the country that had done a mobile giving campaign if you know anything about ban you or anything about HBCUs. When you look at homecoming the big thing is the band is not necessarily football team but the band is like a huge deal at these games and at that school, the band was a huge huge deal so I asked our band director. If we can have during the halftime show, then put the little call letters the 50555 on the field during halftime and ask people to pull out their phones and text. When he did that during homecoming we ended up getting about 2000 donors during that halftime show. So, you know the time was just $5 donation so we raised about $10,000 but the fact that we got 2000 people to engage right during that event was just phenomenal my boss was very happy you know, you know things went really well and after that. Hey Jeff, why don't you just become our annual fund person you can do our direct mails or phonathon or, you know, our email campaigns just do all of that stuff, you know, just everything. So, very soon after that January of 2010, Haiti got hit with a tsunami if you remember back in when Haiti got hit with a tsunami and the entire world was trying to text $5 to 90999 to help out with Haiti release. So now text to give had become like this global phenomenon where it looks like now you can raise millions of dollars really quickly using mobile technology. So now other other nonprofits as well as colleges and universities start calling saying how can we do this. And they are start referring them to me saying hey this is God named Jeff in Florida that did this great campaign if you want to know how to do it call him so my phone starts ringing because everybody wants to know how did I do this. So, so now my boss is saying yeah you definitely need to be our annual fund person but keep in mind I'm still the IT guy and I'm raising money. I love this non traditional route and I knew in my heart Jeff when you had said active training or active listening for your counseling I was like, that is very complimentary to fundraising right like really having the ability to listen. And I just love hearing your story so thank you for for sharing that and again like in a very non traditional way and congratulate on that success because that is fantastic. It really is fantastic. Yeah, you shared with me that your university hasn't always been HBC you so I'm curious what your donor portfolio looks like Jeff especially knowing like, and I remember when I learned the word constituent and I was thinking, what does constituent mean so you kind of learning through the process as well but would you share with us, you know, what the makeup of your current portfolio looks like. Yeah so so our HBC you has a very different history from a lot of HBC use a lot of a lot of HBC use go back to the late 1890s, when they when they got their start as a college specifically for people of color or at that time they were called Negro colleges or Negro schools or normal schools. Well, our, our university has roots all the way back to 1857 pre Civil War, and it was started as an all white teachers college called Harris teachers college. So it started off that way but in 1890, they created an additional school called Stowe teachers college, which was for African American students to go to also learn how to be teachers. So that went on for a while as two separate schools until about the 1950s, where they integrated Harris teachers college and they didn't see a need for the Stowe teachers college anymore so they integrated Harris teachers college and that became the university but then they decided that because there was a heritage or history with Stowe teachers college. Let's bring that name back to Harris teachers college and make it Harris Stowe teachers college. But then when you get one when we had a president called Dr Henry Givens that served as our president for about 33 years or so. In 1987. Okay, so in 1987, he decided to apply for the historically black college or HBCU designation for the university because we had such a rich history as a school for teaching African Americans to be teachers. So we actually changed it to Harris Stowe brought in the name Harris Stowe and then we became a university and that's in 1987 that's when we became an HBCU so we haven't been an HBCU for the last 100 or so years like a lot of HBCUs. We recently became an HBCU back in 1987. Wow, that is fascinating I mean just just learning through that so your portfolio then there's a mixture and I and I don't know I'm assuming which we know what we shouldn't assume. Yeah, have a broad spectrum perhaps donors from the previous university like like understanding that previous history is that and do you have all all age all ethnicities is your portfolio just a diverse makeup. Yeah, so when you look at the portfolio depending on how many years you go back. You know you start going back 3040 years you have graduates of Harris Teachers College. You have some who are graduates of Stowe Teachers College. You have some that are graduates of Harris Stowe Teachers College and then the more recent graduates. They remember when it changed from Harris Stowe college to Harris Stowe State University so you know we have a diverse group of folks that had a very different experience because for a long time, Harris Stowe was only a teachers college. It wasn't until maybe like the late 90s, when we brought on like a business school and arts and sciences and these other programs and now we just started a program in stem. So the older alums don't know anything about that they just remember it being a teachers college and like said sometimes you know you're looking at an all white population depending on what school they went to or you meet some folks that actually were in a diverse situation so it's it it kind of runs runs the gamut yeah. That's fantastic and then as it runs the gamut I'm curious what you're measuring and if you're measuring any different results based off of your donors if you know if they are people of color but what we just learned is really your portfolio base is just as diverse as as the United States right really looking at those that you serve. So are you measuring different results. So, you know, as opposed to measuring different results based upon color as far as our constituents, when they give, we're not really measuring that we're not tracking that in our system of, you know, who's giving that's African American and who's giving that's Caucasian or anything like that. However, I will say something that has been very noticeable in the area of HBC use and in the past few years, what we've seen is that, you know, there's always been talk about equity and funding. equity in fundraising or equity in philanthropy and whether or not the HBC use are receiving the same type of funding as their counterparts that are predominantly wide institutions and things like that. And this is my third HBC so I've worked at three different HBC so I've seen where HBC use typically have to fight to get certain funds or work really hard to reach out to certain foundations and get some of those same type dollars that we've seen at other institutions. But in the last few years, with, particularly with things like COVID. George Floyd, you know, Michael Brown those types of situations where there's racial diversity racial disparities, social injustice, those types of things have brought those racial discrepancies to the forefront to where now the HBC use are starting to see the resources that they weren't seeing before. There are foundations and corporations that are reaching out to HBC is now saying, How can I help what can we do what can we do to create some type of equity. And we're starting to see influx of funds that we haven't seen before now. I'm not trying to say that there's a level playing field now but I am saying that there's more resources now than they were in the past because I think culturally there's a shift in the priorities of making things a little bit more equitable and diverse when it comes to funding now. Yeah, you know that's very interesting that you say that and we, Julie and I, that's the we, we've been talking a lot over the last four years about the pandemic's plural and including the social injustice as you know one of the things that the pandemic's were facing and really looking how people have started. We hope to diversify, you know where they fund and and really adding maybe some additional funding, you know, areas of focus and so here's what you just shared. And it makes me happy. Do you feel that these funds are are here to stay is this something that, you know, it's even a hard question for me to ask but I hope that people aren't just putting money to say this is what we're doing and that it will be a long time relationship are you seeing these relationships extend. One of the things that and this is part of my job and what I do is that you know I look at donors as partners, and I try to think of them as partners and not as transactions. So anytime we make a connection with the corporation or foundation or someone that's working with us. We want to include them as a partner at the university which means it's our job to make that relationship feel more like a partnership so that it doesn't just be a one time gift or one time fun type of situation because we want to make sure that we want to invite you to our events we want you to be a part of what's going on at the university we want you to take a tour of what's going on, we want to let you know how we're using our funds and how it's impacting our students. So that way it feels more like a relationship than a transaction so that's on us. Now, the other part. Like you said, we hope that it's not a one time thing because we know that because of certain things that happened in our culture. Sometimes the priorities do shift just like I mentioned with Haiti. Sometimes there's a national disaster and all of a sudden everybody switches their funding priorities because they feel like something else might be more important at the time so we're hoping that's not the case. You know we've seen things like in the situations where you know a lot of universities have started to receive. We've seen a lot of like multi million dollar funds coming from different sources that they haven't seen before and they're unrestricted funds they're saying hey, you know hey here's something that you can use. We've seen that kind of thing happen we don't know how long that will continue, but that has definitely been transformational for a lot of different HBCU so that has been that has been something that's been very worthwhile but I can definitely say that on our part and most HBCUs once we see those types of funds coming in. If we could turn those things into relationships and not transactions we can keep that that that whole piece going. My fingers are cross for you my friend so those of you that are watching you probably saw me cross my fingers those of you listening cross yours to as I think I think it will all help. I love that you mentioned relationship and I could not echo that, you know, louder and more boisterous for you. I also subscribe to that because the transactional is just not where it's at it's not sustainable. Let's move to our final talking point because sadly our time's coming, coming to an end here shortly. It goes by so fast, especially a conversation like this Jeff. I'm curious and I'm going to take this more into the relational side as well. Can you talk to us about challenges maybe that you're facing to really recruit young people of color into the sector into fundraising into, you know, maybe even higher education and working at HBCUs. I feel that and I know I'm, you know, I'm starting this off with like my perspective but I feel that just as as fundraising is recruiting is relationship based as well. So what are you seeing in this space. Yeah, so I think now in this particular space I don't think we're that dissimilar from a lot of a lot of other people in this nonprofit space, because I think just the whole concept of fundraising is kind of is kind of an anomaly to a lot of people they just, I just don't know or maybe I should say an enigma, one of those words works right, but I just think that because people don't fully understand what fundraising is it's something that they just kind of overlook or don't even want to be a part of I know I was the same way like when I was more so on the IT side and I was doing more of the technical side of what they call advanced services as it relates to fundraising. I'm comfortable with that because I said I never want to be that guy going around asking for money I don't want to be that guy. You know, and because I thought that guy was the person that had to go around knocking on doors and begging people to give him money and you know that pressure of trying to get somebody to make a gift. And I just felt like that wasn't something I want to do, however, as I learned more and more about what philanthropy and that hope understand what fundraising is is really just bringing people. Connecting people with their passions for the things that they want to do or the change that they want to make in the world. And you're making those things happen and creating those connections between your university and their passions. Then they thank you for being able to bring that kind of stuff together you're not begging you just creating those opportunities for the things that people already want to do. So once I understood that fundraising became a whole different thing to me and I think that we're able to make people aware or especially our young people aware of this is a career that's a very viable career it's a very rewarding career. But it's not what you think it is it's actually something totally different that talks to people's passions and allows you to be your authentic self, without having to create some, you know, I'm this sales person kind of person. Then we'll get more people into the business and I think with a lot of the stuff that I do because I'm more like our AFP our local AFP board, and I go out and do I speak to people at different places and one of the things that one of my challenges is, I do want to talk to young people and get in front of more young people to talk about how this whole, you know, this whole area of development advancement works because it's definitely been a life changer for me. And I think it'd be life changing for a lot of people that they just kind of understood more about. You know, I so appreciate your perspective on that and you're right I feel that fundraising has become the F word that no one wants to talk about and it's like it's really, I love fundraising and similar to you Jeff I really look at it from that relationship space it's an opportunity to bring people with you to make a positive difference. Thanks to my friends, LaShonda Williams she's watching and listening so you might know you might know. She says thanks Jared and Jeff for another great show professional fundraising recruitment in the African American community is taboo. Although African Americans are philanthropic and support their religious organizations family members and and members in crisis, etc. So, thank you LaShonda for your compliment and your additional comment. It was much appreciated and welcome. And LaShonda always has a very nice way of saying, you know, really what a fundraiser is and what they do and I'm not even going to attempt to paraphrase it, but really giving people the opportunity, you know, to do good. And a lot of people like you said Jeff they say, thank you like thank you for allowing me this opportunity to do to do good. Go ahead. No, I was just gonna say that was, I think that was a shock for me because my first real chance to do like face to face major gift fundraising was when my, when my boss retired, and I kind of took on I was the annual giving person I took on some of her, her donors to just kind of move things along after her retirement until we found a new replacement and I remember the first time I closed on an endowment. The family invited me to their home to do like signing up the paperwork and once we signed everything like everybody was coming around and thank me and shake my hand and saying thank you so much and I'm saying to myself. Wow, you guys are giving our university money but you're thanking me, you know, it was like, that was like my mind changing moment that said okay the work that I'm doing here is not begging for money at all this is something totally different where I'm fulfilling people's passions, and just kind of making those things come into fruition and that's so much more rewarding than going around begging people for money. Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that just hearing that gives me chills and I really hope that everyone in this space gets an opportunity to experience that themselves because what a powerful moment and a really beautiful moment so thank you. Thank you for sharing that and you're right I think this sector at large is facing many challenges to recruit professionals young professionals you know into this space so I appreciate you sharing your perspective on that. If we could talk for hours or I know I would love to talk to you for hours and continue this conversation but for those of you watching and listening. Please help me thank Jeff Shaw he is the Vice President of institutional advancement and if you joined us early you learned that at one point in his life. He did not know what advancement meant he, he, he merely served them from an it capacity and really started learning what all advancement meant through his active listening skills so Jeff thank you for your service and for serving at the University for those of you that want to check out here is so you can find them at hsu.edu and Jeff I'm curious are you also active on LinkedIn because I like to point people that direction to you. Yes, I'm actually active on LinkedIn you can find me at Jeff Shaw on LinkedIn. I'm very active on there I try to post as often as I can so yes I'm not hard to find. Wonderful. Well thank you again for joining us. It's a pleasure. Julia Patrick will be out this week but I'm holding down the fort or as I like to say when the cats away the mice will play, but I'm Jared ransom your nonprofit nerd and our partners that I want to extend our gratitude to our blooming American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy at National University nonprofit thought leader your part time controller staffing boutique nonprofit nerd as well as nonprofit tech talk we encourage you to check out these companies. I just think they're divine they really are also here in a partnership matter and they want to help you all of you in that in and around throughout all communities do more good. So Jeff, as as I shared earlier we're coming up on believe it or not 900 episodes next month, October and we have signed off all episodes with the same mantra and I'm going to share it with you today and all of those that are watching and listening and we ask you. We encourage you we remind you and invite you to stay well, so you can continue to do well. Thank you so much Jeff, what an honor. Thank you so much I really appreciate. Bye bye.