 Yeah, we're back. We're live. We're here at Think Tech. I'm Jay Fidel. It's a four o'clock show, and we have Kalee Akeena joining us. Hi, Kalee. Hi, Jay, and hi to all the viewers. Great to be with you, as always. As always, yeah. Kalee is a candidate for OHA, and we're visiting with him today about that. Kalee is also a Think Tech host. That's been a Think Tech host for many years, actually, and we want to talk to him about that. So, Kalee, you welcome and tell us about your experience with Think Tech. Jay, you and I have been together since the days of radio, when Think Tech was a little radio show in your law firm office, and you had great dreams of bringing together the community and creating an ongoing conversation over the major issues, and you've done exactly that. My hat off to you. Congratulations. Think Tech is the coming together of wonderful minds. Thank you. Thank you. So, yeah, and you have been a great contributor to Think Tech. You have brought many important decisions on important issues, and I'm happy to see you running. I also get your newsletter every day or two, and I greatly appreciate that. You have developed that to a very valuable publication covering, again, very important issues to the state. Can you talk about your newsletter? Sure. You're talking about the newsletter published by the Grassroot Institute of Hawaii, of which I'm president and CEO. It's an independent Think Tank that deals with issues relating to the economy and to the government, particularly transparency, and it's just a great opportunity to bring research-based knowledge to the public and to advise public officials. And so, anybody can get on that news list. It's grassrootinstitute.org. Just send me a letter, Kay Lee, at grassrootinstitute.org, and I'll sign you up. So, Kay Lee, over the years, you have investigated, you have produced luncheon programs, I guess, for the Grassroot Institute many times, and I have attended some of them, I've filmed some of them, but I'd like to know why you do that and why you do it so well, because, again, you're covering issues that are so important to the community that may or may not be covered in other media. Well, I think that people care about what's going on when values are understood, and anything taking place in the economy or in our government impacts our fundamental values, such as individual liberty, the operation of the free market, and whether we have a transparent government. And so, we like to bring the best research together that helps people understand what's going on. The other thing is this. We all feel the pain. I mean, we walk down the streets and we see homelessness. We go to the store and we try to buy things that cost an exorbitant amount. Our children and grandchildren leave Hawaii and can't afford a mortgage and so forth. We sense that things aren't ideal and there has to be an independent source that does the research that helps us to understand what's wrong and how to fix it. So, I'm very pleased to say that a lot of public officials do read our material and oftentimes it does, not often enough, but oftentimes it does crop up as legislation. I must say it's very valuable and I really enjoy what I read from you and about you. Let's talk about your view of the world. Because you've been expressing that, you're on record on so many issues and you have defined yourself over the past at least 10 years, but in a word, what is your view of the world and the view of Hawaii? Well, the world is pretty large to talk about and maybe on another program we can expand to the universe in terms of Hawaii. Hawaii is just a great place to live. That's why we're all here. That's why we had, at least up until recently with the COVID-19 crisis, a booming tourist industry. Look at the sky, look at the mountains, look at the ocean and experience the people and the cultures, not to mention the food. The world will always beat a pathway to Hawaii, but as all things that are very premium in their value, the price is very high. And so one of the things that's unfortunate is the price of paradise is just too high for residents. And one of the reasons for that is because of the way the government operates. Government is just too big in Hawaii, has its fingers into too many departments in our lives, doesn't do well the things it needs to be doing and ultimately costs us a huge amount of money. And that strain impacts our entire economy, making Hawaii a place where it's not possible to build the kind of economy that will sustain our populace and businesses. In a nutshell, that's what I see going on. And I think it's worthwhile when citizens come together to speak out and to try to come up with better solutions. Well, so many of your positions you've taken and articulated, the programs you've done, the issues you've dealt with suggest that you should be in the legislature. And yet you're running now for the second time for the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. Why? I mean, can you realize your passion about Hawaii on so many positions at OHA? Or shouldn't you go into higher office? Well, that's an interesting question. There's no question about it, Jay. I'm passionate about the issues that concern Hawaii and all residents of Hawaii, especially improving the economy and making Hawaii a place where we can all live and realize our dreams. And I'm going to continue to pursue that through the Grass Root Institute, which is an independent public policy think tank. By independent, it's not Republican, it's not Democrat, it's not of any party, and we receive no funds from any parties. We're able to speak just to the truth. That's important. But the reason that I'm interested in an agency like the Office of Hawaiian Affairs is just because it's the nuts and bolts. It's down where people are. It deals with issues such as housing and jobs and education and healthcare and a significant segment of our population. It allows me to get involved in the nuts and bolts of a government organization. And so it's really quite fascinating to have both views. In Grass Root Institute, we get the 50,000-foot view above everything, where we're not really involved in anything in terms of any financial investment and so forth, or any fiduciary duty. But then when it comes to being a trustee at the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, a position to which I was elected in 2016, I'm a fiduciary for an organization that really has to roll up its sleeves and do the work that government should be doing. And so it's fascinating to be able to be perched in both views. Yeah. Well, you're a guide fly there for sure. And you've taken positions and covered issues that maybe some of the other trustees don't agree with. But I think that's very healthy. And so I wonder if you could tell us what you, what looking back, what you have achieved in your current term at OHA? Well, to sort of speak of a baseline, when I was elected to the Office of Hawaiian Affairs in 2016, OHA had reached the lowest point in terms of its reputation. In fact, it had commissioned but failed to produce, or release to the public, a scientific survey that showed how Hawaiians here viewed the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. And they found that in terms of all organizations dealing with Hawaiian issues, ranging from the Ali'i Trust, like Kamehameha Schools, Queen's Hospital, or the Hawaiian homelands, that OHA had the lowest reputation. And the basic reason is that they felt that OHA simply wasn't fulfilling its mission and was really mismanaged. And so I came in at a time that the reputation was very, very low. And I set about during my first term to fight fraud, waste, and abuse. And I did my very best. And despite opposition, I championed an independent audit that revealed an incredible amount of red flags that were actually in place. And today that audit is the blueprint for change. But one of the things that I dealt with was really the fact that there were financial practices that simply weren't worthy of a government organization. So I stood up against that. It didn't make me popular, Jay, but it did get me into the news a lot and gave me the opportunity to actually do something, which is basically begin cleaning up an organization. And it's a great story that during the last four years in which I was in office for my first term, OHA has actually grown in terms of its openness and transparency and accountability. And that's very gratifying to see that that's taking place. That's good for taxpayers. That's good for Hawaiians. That's good for the beneficiaries of the Office. Good for everybody. Good for you for raising those issues and getting a little sunlight on OHA. But now having done that and having initiated the audit and having put a little sunlight on things, what do you see this coming term, the term you're running for now, what do you see as your primary platform points? What do you want to achieve in the next term? Well, I'm so glad you asked that question because the first term was really like cleaning out the plumbing first at ground level so that we could actually go vertical. And if I'm granted a second term, I look forward to moving forward. When I came into the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, my passion was really about seeing that Hawaiians had housing and jobs and education and healthcare. And that's really the bottom line. I wasn't interested in pursuing any political issues or any stance on controversial issues, but the bottom line is making sure that those vast resources available to OHA are used so that needs are met. And so I conceived of a three-point plan that I launched in my first term of which I'm going to continue the second two points. The first part of that plan, realizing that OHA is actually a financial trust fund, is to protect the trust. And that largely means to ensure through audits and upgraded fiscal policy that the trust doesn't outspend itself and that the trust is not lost through fraud, waste and abuse. And I think I've put some good measures in place in my first term. Number one, protect the trust. The second goal is to grow the trust. There are vast resources available. For example, OHA owns 30 acres of Kakaako Makai. That's waterfront property right in front of the Alamoana Boulevard. And for seven years, it has sat there wasting potentially billions of dollars without being developed at all. There are other properties it also owns. If we simply develop these properties, there's more than enough resources that can be generated to meet the needs of Hawaiians. And that's going to relieve a tremendous burden from the legislature and all people. So number one, protect the trust. Number two, grow the trust. And number three, use the trust to meet the real needs of the people. And once again, we're talking about the need to solve homelessness and housing. We're talking about jobs and economic opportunities. We're talking about not only housing, but we're talking about building communities and medical care and so forth. And that's what I'd like to see available. Three things, protect the trust, grow the trust and build the trust. And then in my spare time, maybe I'll play golf with you. Well, I hope we can do that without face masks. Let me unpack a little bit with you on that. Absolutely. Protect the trust seems really basic. We've got, you've got, we all got to protect the trust. Trust is a trust and there are fiduciary duties that must be exercised. So I compliment you on that. Let me say something before moving on, just on protecting the trust. When I was first elected in 2016, OHA's own financial advisors had told them that the trust was being, was being spent down too rapidly. In other words, the trustees were spending too much money too quickly. And they predicted that within 10 years, the trust would be spent out completely. And that's a terrible thing. And it just required some fiscal changes to, to fix that. For example, at that time, the trustees were allowed to spend more than 5% of the trust each year without bringing it in and replacing it. And of course that would spend it out. I fought hard to fight those kinds of policies. And so protecting the trust on one hand is a financial fiduciary matter. But it was also a matter of ensuring that there were the appropriate audits in place. And I think the public has read a lot about that. And you've talked a lot about that. Yeah. That's a very healthy change of direction, if you will. Now growing the trust and especially that land in Kakaako, which was, I guess that was to deal with Neil Abercrombie in the middle of his term. He he kind of deal with OHA. And the result was the acreage in Kakaako, Makai. That's right. The, the trust was not being provided the public lands trust revenues that it actually deserved. And to help make up part of that difference, the state handed over about 30 acres in Kakaako, Makai for OHA to develop. Yeah. And it was long and coming. It took a long time to make that deal, execute that deal, maybe too long given, you know, the circumstances. But here we have, here we have that land. And we have OHAs, I guess, you know, all the the eyes are dotted and the T's across. OHA is free to go ahead and do something with that land. There was discussion about making condominiums out of that land. But there was a problem, I think, in the zoning. And one of my concern, and I'd like to ask you about this, is that this, this land is really as a property of OHA, it's a property of all of us. It is the property of the people of the state. You know, because you're not only OHA not only holds it in trust for the, you know, particular constituents, the Native Alliance, but it holds it in trust for the state, correct me if I'm wrong. And that means that whatever it does with this land, it should benefit more than just one group. It should, and it should not damage, it should not undermine the development of our city. So what are your thoughts about how this land could be used in such a way as to realize, you know, the benefits that should come to OHA, but also, you know, be consistent with the proper and ethical development of the city itself? Well, Jay, you've mentioned a complex issue, but it's an important one. While OHA was established to administer funds that were set aside long ago for the benefit of Native Hawaiians, when it does that correctly, it benefits everybody. What's good for Hawaiians is good for everyone. And case in point, we've got this wonderful land sitting there in the waterfront of Kakaako at the doorstep of Honolulu. And if it simply lies there without development, it becomes just a magnet for all kinds of crime, just misuse, homelessness, and so forth. When instead, it could be a productive thriving part of our city. And there's so much that can be done you mentioned that there are some restrictions in terms of the extent of residential towers, but that's fine. Nonetheless, what can be developed there is tremendous. There can be a great commercial center. There can be a culturally sensitive center for culture. We can have an iconic landmark such as the Sydney Opera House, so to speak, of Hawaii down there. We could have shops, restaurants, so many businesses that will really showcase Hawaii in a tremendous way. And it's right there at the doorstep of the city. So much can be done. And as that financial wealth is realized, the needs of Hawaiians will be met, and as well as the needs of the city will be met. And so it's just a great opportunity that needs to be developed. It's unfortunate that years of mismanagement and years of failure to have vision have let that land lie wasted. And the lost potential revenue is just tremendous. It could have done so much to help the needs that exist, such as getting 26,000 people who are on the Hawaiian homeland's waiting list off that list and onto Hawaiian homeland's. But how does this all intersect with COVID? Because COVID, I mean, everybody agrees that COVID is a transformative experience for the state of Hawaii, around tourism, around culture, around the way we live together. And when we come out the other side, hopefully soon, we're going to find out that Hawaii's a little different than it was in terms of the business, the economics and all that. So if you say, and I really relish the idea of a mall, a shopping area, a cultural area there in Kakaako, but doesn't that assume we're going to have millions of tourists around? How do we do these things in the new world after COVID? Well, you know, there's a silver lining. And that is that we have nowhere to go, but up actually, we have hit rock bottom lower than we ever imagined we could hit economically here in Hawaii. And so as we move upward, we can set the reset button, so to speak, and we can do tourism the way we want to do tourism. We can ensure that values that we care about, such as sustainability, culture, and so forth, are honored as we rebuild the tourist industry. And we'll find that the tourist industry is going to be compliant with that in the sense they're going to be cooperative. So we have the opportunity to do things the way we need to. Jay, there's no question about it. COVID-19 pandemic has hurt individuals financially and businesses tremendously and the entire economy. And one of the damages that has been done is that a state government and county governments and the city government that had been in debt prior to COVID-19 at a level that was too high, are in a worse position coming out of it altogether. Our state alone had about $88 billion of unfunded liabilities before COVID-19. And what I'm talking about is that in the next 30 years, we owe $88 billion that we just don't have. And that's everything from our pension fund to the funds for healthcare for retirees to infrastructure and so forth. With COVID, we've gone into further debt and pushed that figure even deeper. And my own institute will soon be coming out with other figures that will help us show what the damage is. But all that said, it gives an impetus and a need for the Office of Hawaiian Affairs to look at its own financial capacity. Instead of looking to the state and the federal government for funding, it's really got to develop these underdeveloped lands, such as Kakaako Makai or another set of lands in Eevee Lake in order to create a business engine. We've really got to get down to the business of building this economy and building businesses that can actually create jobs and opportunities for the people. And this is a great opportunity for OHA then to move from being a beggar to becoming a real benefactor here in the community and a real player that's going to help everyone. That's very visionary, Kali. I really appreciate that. And you know, what it tells me, what it accentuates is that over all these years the state has not done a very good job in protecting Native Hawaiians and offering them the benefits they should have had long time ago and allowing them to become homeless as they are, many of them. And so when you take that and you compare that against the new Hawaii, the one we're transforming into, where part of the new tourism, in my view, is cultural tourism. We want the Native Hawaiians to be part of that tourism. In fact, I think that's a lot of, that's a lot of the reason that tourists have come here anyway. It's for the people, right? They always say that. They come here for the people. And that's very important. But the problem is, is a lot of Native Hawaiians, beneficiaries of OHA, who don't have any money. Right now a lot of them don't have jobs. A lot of them are homeless. And so this is actually at the top of the priorities to make sure that they're covered. They're covered in, you know, sufficient benefits in homes, in healthcare, as you mentioned. So I think all of this is critically important. And my question to you is, can it be achieved with the program you're talking about? We cannot afford to have the Native Hawaiians below the curve on this. They can't be disadvantaged. They have to have a reasonable life. They have to be able to realize their culture. And OHA has been charged with doing that. This is not easy, Kaliti. And I appreciate your vision, but I wonder if it can be done. It's very visionary, but is it practical? Oh, absolutely. There's no question about it. If we recognize that OHA has resources that are underdeveloped and pay close attention to them, we'll soon realize that there are more than enough resources out there to help the Hawaiian people. There's more than enough to take care of the needs that we've mentioned before, housing, jobs, education, and healthcare. Let me give you another property that we haven't talked about yet. Do you know the old Gentry Pacific Design Center? Yes. It's part of the old Dole Canary. Yes. OHA owns that property there. That's where the headquarters are in. Yes. And a few shops in an undeveloped two-story building for the most part. But it's a large lot. And it's been sitting there without anything more than some small commercial use and OHA office use over the last several years. It is already zoned, pre-zoned, to have three towers, commercial, residential, and mixed use. And it's zoned to have two rail stations, one on either side. It could be the most valuable commercial property in all of Honolulu if developed. And if the leadership of OHA had that vision and the fortitude with which to move forward and to develop that and kakaako, you would have an engine for finances available to meet the needs of Native Hawaiians that would take that burden completely off of the state. And what I'm talking about is dealing with homelessness, dealing with the need for low-cost housing, the need to help the Hawaiian homeland's waiting list people to get homes on the waiting on the Hawaiian homeland and so forth. And so we need to have a more business-oriented mind toward the work of the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. Well, I think it can happen, absolutely. And there are enough people in this town who know the value of that for everyone who are willing to help. Are you a businessman? I recall that you have a PhD from the university. You've had a lot of experience in dealing with public issues, but are you a businessman who can see the nuances of building this juggernaut of real estate activity? No, I'm not a businessman per se. I'm a professional who has worked with businesses. And the Grassroot Institute deals with the whole issue of creating business climate that's suitable here for attracting capital to Hawaii and helping capital multiply itself here. That's been my frame of reference. Believing firmly that when government pulls back and stops interfering with the market through over-regulation and over-taxation, we can create the conditions that help business flourish. And I think that that is true in any sector, even with the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. You haven't mentioned technology. And part of the jobs you're talking about should be in technology. And as you know, ThinkTech is our middle name. Don't you think that Ohan has beneficiaries would benefit by having a robust interface with technology and be part of the development of a technological diversification in our state, including Mauna Kea. And I'm wondering if that's part of your vision too? Oh, absolutely. While Native Hawaiians have benefited from the tourist industry to some extent, nobody can rely solely upon our major industries of tourism and military in order to make the living for Hawaii that we need. We need diversification. There's no question about it. Technology is going to always be a driving force within diversification. And the reason for that is that technology of all industries is one that requires, one for which Hawaii is well suited because we don't need to have a resource base in terms of minerals and other things in this land. We can do anything that's globally interconnected here from Hawaii. And as I mentioned, the world is attracted to Hawaii. So it's not a question of whether Oha should be avoiding this. Technology should be part of everything we do here in Hawaii. Yeah, and that's the way you bring capital to the state. And as you mentioned, capital is critical in developing the business for Oha or any other enterprise in the state. But let me ask you where we go from here. On August 8th, we have a primary. Where do you fit in all of that? And following the primary, we have the general election on November 3rd. Where do you fit in that? I'm running for reelection as a trustee at large in the office of Hawaiian Affairs. And that election takes place in the primary first. Seven contenders are running for two seats. The primary ends on August 8th. Two of those contenders will emerge and go on to the general election. What message would you leave with our viewers who see this now or in that period as to why they should vote for you as opposed to anyone running against you? Well, I believe with all my heart, what the people of Hawaii believe. And that is it's time to stop dividing Hawaii's people and start uniting. I think that for too long, the actions of the office of Hawaiian Affairs have divided us culturally and socially. And while I believe that people are very much committed to helping Native Hawaiians, we must be also committed to a community here in Hawaii in which we all live together, in which we're all in the same boat, in which we're all the beneficiaries of a rising tide. So I truly believe with all my heart, it's time to stop dividing Hawaii's people and start uniting them. Wow, that's great. Where can we find out more about your what's your website? Where can we learn about everything you've ever done? Well, I hope you'll all visit my website. It's spelled just like my name, keliiakina, k-e-l-i-i-a-k-i-n-a dot com, keliiakina dot com. And you can get everything you need there. And of course, you'll continue to host your show on Take Tech Away, which is on Monday next week, for example. Can you talk about that for a second? That's right. Mondays at two o'clock, we have Hawaii together, which features public officials, business leaders, and others talking about key issues that affect everyone. I hope you'll join us sometime. Thank you, Koli. Thank you for appearing today. May I say also, thank you for your contributions to this community, not only the Native Hawaiian aspects and constituents in this community, but the whole community. We really appreciate that. Thank you so much. And Jay, thank you. And thank you to all the viewers of Think Tech Hawaii. It's a great opportunity to bring the community together. Aloha.